40 Minutes In The Old Testament - Episode 81 (Exodus 17:1-7)

Episode Date: April 25, 2017

The people of Israel are thirsty and they're not happy about it. Moses thinks his life is in danger and the people are all about testing God. It's water from rocks, putting God to the test and donuts this episode. Check it out!

welcome to another episode of 40 minutes in the old testament i'm daniel emery price joined by chad bird chad how's it going it's good it's good how you doing dan it's all good man you're ready to exodus i am dude do you watch the show better call saul no no i i've been meaning to uh i watch breaking bad so i'm intrigued by better call saul better call saul is great but what i just did was a better better call saul ism because uh okay spoilers and also if you don't care because you don't care about either of these shows sorry this will just take a second

but Saul Goodman's name is not Saul Goodman it's Jimmy McGill he ends up changing it to Saul Goodman and the way it comes about is he was a con artist and he's conning this guy and they do this thing

and he says to a guy he's like what's your name and the guy said Saul Goodman And he's like, oh, it's all good, man. He's like, yeah, it's all good, man. So that's what I just did to you. That's good. It's all good, man.

It's all good, man. Yeah, yeah. I like it. I like it. Yep. I actually thought about watching that because I love Breaking Bad. Oh, dude, you should. It's fantastic.

It's fantastic. Great. It's an incredible character show. You know, it's not Exodus, though. It's not Exodus, no. No, you can't beat Exodus. And I think in Exodus, we are ready to start a new chapter. I think we're ready to launch into Chapter 17.

Right on, let's do it. All right. So we're still not at the stopping point of our journey towards Sinai. We're close, though. But we've got a couple more incidents that have to take place before we get there. And one of these, especially the first of these, is there are certain episodes in the Bible that always tend to come up. They resurface places. there's something some quality about them that uh really resonates with with people or uh maybe

something about them uh is so stamped on the nation's memory that they kind of become you know that thing that people refer to back to time and time again well um one of those is coming up in the first part of this chapter it's the uh it's what happens at a place called uh it has two names Masah and Meribah. We'll talk more about what those words mean, names mean, in just a minute. But this particular episode comes up multiple times throughout the scriptures. We'll look at a couple of those when we get into it. So that's the first seven verses, what happens at Masah and Meribah. And then the second half of the chapter is pretty interesting, too. It's got some kind of strange stuff in it that we don't see anywhere else and that is the story when the uh amalekites

attack the israelites and uh you have moses going up on top of this hill and he's holding up the staff and he got he gets tired and so aaron is on one side and the guy named her holding up the hands of moses because when his hands go down the israelites start losing the battle when his hands they're up they're winning the battle so that's the uh that's the second half of the chapter so we got a couple of different things to look at we'll see how far we get you know what they you know they always do chad and the movies on this they always like they always incorporate that into the red sea thing they do they yeah that yeah like where his hands get tired and someone has to hold them up yeah yeah i've seen that really yeah multiple to two stories yeah and

multiple depictions of this that like he's standing up on like some ridge or whatever with his hands up held and like like in a motion like the parted sea yeah and uh and his arms are getting tired and the walls of the are starting to collapse a little bit you know and like so they go there yeah and you're you know hey it makes for a good visual but just in case you guys are wondering and if you watch those movies you're like hey wait a minute but yeah that's not that's not how that went down yeah yeah they're pulling it pulling together a couple of stories well uh yeah that this that that this is the only time that that particular uh uh type of hands occurs uh it's it's pretty interesting but i don't want to get too far

ahead but anyway that's the second half of the chapter so first half uh we're gonna have we have thirsty people complaining people uh once more and that they they keep getting more and more agitated as as time goes on so we'll see what happens here so it just says basically the beginning of the chapter that they they continued on their their journey all the congregation of the of the israelites journeyed by stages from the wilderness of sin according to god's command and they camped a place called rephidim and there was no water for the people to drink. And you don't even have to read any farther to realize what's really about to go down. Because as soon as we hear there was no water for the people to drink, you know there's

going to be complaining and threatening and wanting to return to Egypt and why you're doing this to us, all that kind of stuff. And that's exactly what transpires afterward. So there's no water uh we we've encountered a situation before where but it was so bitter that the people couldn't drink it that was at that place called marah back in chapter 15 and there we have the uh tree or the branch thrown into the water so that it made it uh made it drinkable but here their water or a little water you don't have any water and so verse two therefore the people quarrel with moses now we've taken a we've upped the ante here because a different hebrew verb is used here for the people's confrontation with moses in the past they just they grumbled against moses

so they they complain you know they i guess we could say they they bellyache to moses the first time around but the the verb that's used here reeve is is almost a uh like a courtroom kind of in fact it is used in in in the prophets very often if the lord has a case against his people a reeve like a a suit against his people almost a legal dispute so the the verb that's used here is even more serious than what we see before. More than just belly aching. This is threatening that's going on here. They quarreled with Moses and said,

give us water that we may drink. And Moses says to them, why do you quarrel with me? Why do you test the Lord? Now, right away, you can't see this now, but you will see it as the story goes on. The particular words that are used here for quarreling and for testing, that becomes the basis of how this particular place is named. It's going to have the name Masah and Meribah derived from the verb meaning to test nasa and meriva is derived from this word for for quarreling uh so masa meriva testing and quarreling

but already here at the beginning we we see these two words used so the people quarrel with moses they say give us some water hey why you why are you reading with me why are you quarreling with me and why do you nasa why do you test the lord and then he goes on the people thirsted there for water they grumbled against moses and said and we've heard this before too why have you brought us up from egypt to kill us and our children and our livestock with thirst so what does moses do Moses cries out to the Lord and says, what shall I do to this people? A little more and they will stone me.

This is getting a lot more serious than what we've seen before. So in the past, the people complained. They said, yeah, why did you bring us out of the land of Egypt? But this complaining has escalated to kind of a legal case. and kind of in conjunction with that moses is actually afraid for his life so that's the first time this has happened they haven't actually threatened moses or at least some sort of a life-threatening situation so moses moses is really he thinks his life is on the line here and so he cries out to god to to do something to to save him and we'll we'll finish the story up and

And then I'll go back and talk about a few things here. So here's what God says to Moses. He says to go in front of the people and to take some of the elders of the people of Israel. They're going to serve as the witnesses. And to take in your hand your staff with which you struck the Nile and go. That's a significant detail, which we will come back to that in a minute too. But the Nile, and it's not just take the staff rather, not just the staff, but the one that you hit the Nile with, that staff.

And then God says, look, I'm going to stand before you, Horeb, so God on top of the rock, and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it that the people may drink. And so Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. And we're not told, but water came out of the rock. And then it finishes off this little section in verse 7 by saying, he named the place Massah and Meribah, pearl of the sons of Israel,

and because they tested the Lord, saying, Is the Lord among us or not? We've all been there, Chad. I've been there. Do you want to relay a personal story about people trying to kill you because they were thirsty? I've been at my house on a Sunday afternoon, gone to the fridge, no beer,

can't buy it because it's Sunday, fall into my knees. Cry it out, how long, oh Lord, we've all been there. Yeah, the suffering and the deprivation that we endure is pretty horrible. It is pretty wild, man, that they're like, all right, Moses, think about the logic here. Sinners are dumb, man. Unless you were wondering, as you guys don't know, sinners are stupid. And they're like, all right, here we are, we're in a desolate place.

There's no water. We're all going to die if we don't get water. Moses, you better freaking find some water, or we're going to kill you. You're like, yeah, yeah, kill the one guy that, like, has been coming through. Like, that's probably going to work. That's probably a great idea. Kill him. I mean, he's going to die if he doesn't get water.

It's not like he doesn't have motivation to find water. Yeah, it's not like Moses, you know, he's carrying a big five-gallon canteen. he's good to go yeah he's going to die too and you're right he's the only one who has done good for the people throughout this whole ordeal

so he goes back to Egypt even though he doesn't have to he brings them out of Egypt he saved their life in the Red Sea he sweetened the waters at the Marah

he gave them manna to eat i mean he's he's he's done nothing but good for israel but it goes to show i think a couple things first of all the uh the lack of logic among sinners oftentimes they don't they're they're reacting emotionally they're reacting just viscerally they're not acting they're not logically whatsoever they're just saying whatever whatever comes to mind or getting bent to their to their anger which is usually a very illogical thing and the simply the lack of the lack of gratitude i mean it we see this over and over uh in our own lives as well i mean we can have all these wonderful things happen to us something bad happens to us it's like all we can think about is the bad thing that happened to us

and we forget completely about all these good things that happened to us before i mean like I mean, you can go five years where everything is fantastic and then have this one week from hell. And it's like you forget about all those years of good that just transpired. And all you can think about is the current suffering. So, I mean, sinners have notoriously short memories. We don't think long term about all the good things that God has done for us. We tend to focus, fixate on whatever bad thing happens to be occurring in our lives at the moment. I know this.

These are the kind of passages that let you know that going into ministry is a great idea. And you read this and you're like, hmm, like I bet you leading God's people is like the best. Yeah. You've probably seen a meme on Facebook or social media where this picture of this old guy, he's like in his 70s. And he says something like, I don't know why people say the ministry is so hard. I'm 42 and I feel great. Yeah. Moses is probably thinking like, yeah, be the deliverer, they said.

It'll be fun, they said. Yeah, this is great. Now they're trying to kill me. It's like there's, no matter what happens, they're always, I mean, this is just the beginning to me. We've got 40 years more of this that's going to happen. In fact, so this is the beginning. You may recall that later on, and I think it's in the book of Numbers, almost the same situation occurs.

The people are thirsty again. They're threatening again. There's a rock. God tells Moses to take his staff and to speak at the rock, and water will come out of it. Remember this story? well moses loses his cool i mean he's finally had it and so instead of speaking to the rock he whacks that rock as hard as he can with the staff and water comes out but it's that

particular episode which then prohibits him from entering into the promised land he's not he's no longer scared for his life uh he's just he's just mad he's frustrated he's lost patience with the people and so he does what God didn't command him to do dishonors God and because of that he's not able to enter into the promised land

so that's sort of later on the wilderness stories but it goes to show you how all of this kind of builds up over time in the life of Moses I feel like that would have been like somebody's head long before

much earlier like hitting heads instead of the rock i wouldn't i wouldn't have the patience to be uh to be moses especially the older i get the i think the less patience i have especially with situations where people are quarreling and i have absolutely nothing to do uh nothing to do with the situation or no way to resolve it and well moses is an old man too after all yeah he is he's 80 plus at this point gotta be like hey speak this words to people i'll be like i got some words for these people i'll gladly speak to them i've got a few things to say i got some things on my mind uh yeah that would that's probably how that would go down anyway i mean like it is one of the things too i mean like it is one of the things that you read

in the bible and like it'll be it'll be cool when you get there because there is reasons for it that are theological but practically speaking you are like hold up man like so these people like moses is not going to get in for this oh yeah that's always seemed like monumentally unfair yes from my perspective we put up with these people for 40 years and he messes up one time and yet yeah he can't he can't get into the promised land yeah and there's and again there's theological reasons for it i won't spoil it and they're they're good they're really good yeah But even when you give the theological reasons for it, you're still like, bummer for Moses, man.

Yeah. He gets on the mountaintop. God shows him all the land that he can't go to. Not cool, God. And then he's dead and God buries him and nobody knows where his grave is to this day. But, you know, Moses can't get us into the promised land. The law can't get us into the promised land, right?

Those are the theological implications. The law can't enter there. that's it law can't enter the law dies outside the promised land it's only it's only uh joshua yehoshua which is the of course the hebrew name for jesus he is the one who leads us into the promised land of course all right now we're doing it now we're bunny trailing i'm just gonna say we have to go full theology there now i'm going there because like i know this there's something about the law not being able to enter the promised land and buried in like where you can't find it and we've got to spend a bunch of time trying to find it

so we can bring the bones of the law into the promised land, and we've been doing that ever since. Yeah. That's like the quest of sinful humanity, right? Yeah. We've got to find the bones of Moses. They're our only hope. Yeah.

We've got to find them. You know what? If we could just find the bones of the law, bring them into the promised land, we'd really have this working. That's what we try to do all the time. It's like the symbol of the Galatian heresy. The Galatians were always trying to go back under the law.

It's like a shovel. Walking around, digging here and there, trying to find those bones in moses yeah they're only they're our only hope yeah the church the church is still actively doing this like both actually uh like our in archaeology uh but also just you know theologically speaking we are like trying to find the remnants of the law to be able to bring in and make a relic out of it like you know this would really be helpful it'd be really helpful i i'll give you a great example of this so last night i'm reading through the latest issue of christianity today and on the cover they have a i'm looking at now

they've got a picture of a of a pink a donut with pink frosting and a little colorful sprinkles on it and these words are all across the front for i do not do the good i want to do but the evil i do not want to do this i keep on doing a little roman seven from romans that's a quote from romans chapter seven and so i'm excited because i think oh cool they're going to deal with like you know the fact that we're similar uses at pakata or we're simultaneously saints and sinners talk about the the old man and new man the struggle all that kind of stuff because you know that's what roman seven is about so i'll read the article and i read the entirety of the article And the article is basically this. It's by quoting that verse from Romans seven and talking about how, you know, that's a struggle that Christians face.

And then for the next four pages proceeds to describe how if Christians are serious and engage in their spiritual life, they're able to discipline themselves so as to increase their levels of self-control and be able to resist sin. and and do good so awesome the the whole article basically disputes the verse in romans 7 that it starts out quoting because paul says i i can't do the good i want to do and the evil i don't want to do that's what i do and this article goes on to say well actually you can if you work hard enough at it you will be able to maintain enough self-control if you find if you find the good you want to do if you find a couple of ribs of moses you can definitely get it done yeah that's all we need it's it's a it's a it's a placing people back under the law without actually saying so making it appear as if well if you just you know if you really are a seriously committed christian

you'll be able to do this and they always ask for the help of god but that's all they're doing is putting the law back on people saying it is your responsibility to do this so that this will result. So you won't sin. Be serious in your discipline as

a Christian and you won't do evil. The application is how to avoid a Roman 7 experience. That's exactly it. How to avoid a Roman 7 experience. Which Paul seems to think is unavoidable.

major christian publication uh so if you're looking for examples of how uh we are still trying to find the bones of moses well there you go the most offensive part of that article is actually that sprinkled donuts are actually gospel and not law for sure yeah yeah that's just i thought it was an insult to the world of donuts in general too that's just a theological fact. Sprinkle donuts, that's gospel. That's like the post-church sacrament in a lot of churches. You gotta have donuts after church.

We had donuts after church. We had donut holes. The problem with donut holes is you think, well, they're so small, I can have several of them. And you end up eating more donut holes than you would have actually if you'd eaten just a donut.

It's true. But donuts, manna, same difference. yeah that's what we refer to it as our church we'll say what we say there's coffee and manna in the back if you'd like some there you go donuts from heaven well i how do we get to talk about all that we we get off track a little bit uh let's uh let's go back and talk about one thing about this uh this particular episode which i think is worth discussing and that is how do you test god accuse the people of doing says uh why do you this is back to verse two why do you quarrel with me why do you test the lord and i i came up with i think is a and i'm borrowing this uh

stealing this from a commentator which i think did a pretty good job of it uh he talks talks about this verse and in relationship to other verses to see what you think dan he uh he describes this as what it means to test God. This is a summary of what he says. To test God is to seek a way in which God can be coerced to act or show himself. It's like to force God's hand or to make belief contingent upon a divine demonstration. And I thought this was good. This is his line. He says that to test the Lord is to try and turn faith into sight. I thought that was a pretty good summary of what it means to test God. So here the people are, and they're testing God by saying basically, listen, if you are really God,

I mean, if you're this good and gracious and merciful God who has redeemed us from slavery in Egypt and brought us to this point, then prove it. believe it we we need to have we need to see water if we're going to believe that you are in fact our our redeemer of some kind of visible proof that our eyes can see before we're going to accept that in fact you are you are our god so it's it's turning turning faith into sight it's trying to coerce or force god into doing something for us so that we will we will believe in him instead seeing what he's already done multiple multiple times for us i mean it's not as if god had not already shown them that he was good and gracious and one and nothing but the best

for them i mean he brought him out of slavery he brought him through the red sea he fed him with manna he sweetened the waters at morav so it's not as if they don't have anything to look back on where you see a demonstration of god's mercy toward them all of that disappears they demand something something else so that that is that is testing god i don't what do you think yeah no i think that that's exactly right because when i think of uh testing god i think of the language of the new testament um where you had the temptation of christ but what what most uh translations will say uh and there in the greek you have this jesus was driven out by the spirit to be tested so so if you want to know about the testing of god well you have a specific example of god

in the flesh being tested by the devil and the testing is this if you are god do this if you're truly the son of god do this other thing and it is and like i mean even things like turn stones into bread right hey throw yourself off this off this you know this temple and you know that that sort of thing um so i think that's very much that is in good biblical company to say yeah testing god is demanding that god do something to prove that he is god uh when he doesn't have to do that he he is uh he is god and so uh and you also then know that testing god is like very much the devil's move i mean he's the he's the one you ultimately see doing it with with with christ so when we test god we are we are doing that out of uh let's say that let's say

that that's the oh that's an old adam move for sure uh because it's it's certainly the move the devil makes i'm glad i'm glad you brought up those temptations uh that actually uh great minds think alike i guess that's actually where i was going to go with it too uh that it fits perfectly actually but everything you were just describing so i mentioned earlier that uh masah and meribah this whole incident comes up multiple times in the scriptures here is one of them uh and listen to this and then put it in connection with everything that that dan was just talking about So this is from Deuteronomy chapter six, verse 16. And the first part is what Jesus quotes back to the devil.

It starts out, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test. And then the verse ends with these words, as you tested him at Massah. So you shall put the Lord your God to the test as you tested him at Massah. So this verse from Deuteronomy is referring back to the section in Exodus that we're talking about, that particular testing. And then that is the verse that Jesus quotes to the devil when he's on the pinnacle of the temple and the devil says, hey, if you are the son of God, then throw yourself down. So you put all that together. And what Jesus is saying is, I'm not going to, in some way, push God to give some divine demonstration of saving me from a situation that I never should have been in to begin with, because that would be testing God, just like the Israelites tested God at Massah and Meribah. yeah i think i think that you see that that faith doesn't make demands faith um requests things of

its father right so jesus talked addresses this specifically and says that there is a generation that that seeks a sign or demands a sign and what he says about that is that it's evil and adulterous That's how he interprets, oh, you demand a sign? Well, demanding a sign from God, so demanding it, saying this is what we must have, that's evil. That's testing God. Now requesting something from God, that's different. We see we've been given, even commanded to bring our needs to God and request that he take care of us. but requesting something from from your father is very different from demanding something from

your father i don't know if you have a father but you probably know how this goes i know like growing up those two things worked out differently i i know that the best way not to get what you want i know i know he knew the difference between me like asking for something and me demanding something yeah yeah the surest way not to get what you want is to demand it from your father you know the exact opposite and like it's weird too because like the response is sort of the same just with a different connotation if i go and i ask something of my father the response is i'm your father if i go and demand i'll be happy to get that and if i go demand something from him he's like i'm your father same words different tone of voice different tone of voice like like

Don't come here to demand stuff of me. That's how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the amazing things about this particular story is that God doesn't. God kind of leaves it to Moses to speak a word of warning and condemnation to the Israelites. God doesn't, you know, chastise them for what they've done. Moses does.

Later, certainly God will. But at this point, God is keeping his silence. He's letting Moses do the talking for him concerning the testing. So he's still being very gracious and merciful and long-suffering with the Israelites. Now, that will come to an end because there will come a time when God, a lesson, and he has to discipline his children. But at this point, he's still providing for their needs, even though they are testing him. Yeah, it's like Moses knows that that's coming because, yeah, he's very much like, hey, pump the brakes.

Everyone needs to slow their roll because this might end bad. Yeah, you're right. We should really stop pushing here. Yeah, you're getting a little too close to the fire there, Israel. If you can see, and this is kind of supposed to be the honeymoon period. Later, Hosea, I believe it is, talks about this is like the days of youth for Israel as a bride of Yahweh. So this is kind of like, this is supposed to be the honeymoon period, you know, where everything is great, no quarrels, everybody's happy. It's like getting in a fight on your wedding night and staying up all night sleeping on opposite sides of the bed.

This is not a good omen for what is to come. Very, very, very brief honeymoon period for Israel. So, but anyway, that's what happens at Masa and Meribah. And as one author put it, he said that Israel, it's sin on the map. I always liked that expression. They literally did. So this place was called Masa and Meribah. So their particular sin of quarreling and testing was put on the map so that it would be remembered by subsequent generations as to what happened.

what happened here but god did provide water comes out of the rock they drink everything is everything is good dude you have to you have to think too i mean i think about this so moses goes and uh hits this rock with like the same stick that he had like hit the nile with and all that kind of stuff but like dude it's like you're talking about a lot of water like i think thirsty people there's a lot of people man like so i think you think about like yeah you hit the rock and then like you know it starts like a little stream comes out and everyone kind of gets a handful or whatever like no man like this is like gotta be i like when i read when i read exodus and like there's events that happen like this i'm i'm always like now how long did this

take like all right everyone get in a line like this is like taking days you know to like to get all these people water uh this this is like a ton of water that's coming out of this rock to like give all these people i mean i don't know what the exact number is i mean i mean we can only estimate but it's a lot of people a lot of thirsty people i was trying to uh i was trying to find this phrase there's a somewhere in the psalms it uh it it depicts the water from the rock is almost like ocean waves coming out so this is this is the idea of like a i always picture a fire hose yeah like you know you hit the rock and oh look yeah let's see a little trickle of water coming out there this is like you hit the rock and boom opens up so that there's plenty of water for the

like streams in the wilderness come out of this so the people have uh and you got you got people you got livestock you got a lot of thirsty mouths and it's weird too i mean this is something that you wouldn't you wouldn't think uh if the new testament didn't like make this really clear where but even even this rock is like there's a type of christ um you have this like all drank the same spiritual drink kind of thing like and that that that rock like from the rock and that rock is christ right yeah yeah there's a jewish tradition that's reflected in paul's paul's words there at first corinthians 10 uh and he says right i believe that's the language is used there and the rock fallen and that rock was christ there's a jewish tradition that there

was this rock that actually like rolled along with the israelites and that became the source of water for them it's apollo is reflecting some of that when he says the rock that followed them but yeah i mean he calls the rock christ because from which we drink the waters of salvation just like uh they drank from the rock here in the in the wilderness example i'm glad you brought that up it's a great example of the extent to which the apostles find christ everywhere in the old testament hey there's a look there's a rock that water comes out of your nexus 17 that's got to be jesus yeah no it comforts me for all like the stretches i feel like i'm making because that's like one i probably wouldn't make you know if they didn't if they didn't make that

jump i would i probably wouldn't do that one on my own uh you know i'd be like yeah there's rock and there's water coming out i probably wouldn't be like so much that's so totally jesus but but paul does it so you know it's okay so you know hey it's comforting to me when people sometimes accuse me of yeah of stretching things i don't know if i see jesus in that or not i'd be like well you know what jesus in that rock that water came out of but paul did so i think it's uh we have app we have apostolic example of this the extent to which we are finding christ all over the place in the old testament so yeah that rock that was jesus water came out of it salvation come out of christ for uh for us for us to drink yeah yeah and you know what that's it guys that's

that's what we got through today and uh hey if you guys want to do something amazing in october you should probably come hang out with me and chad in san diego uh it's gonna be a massive event big huge party celebrating the 500th anniversary of the reformation it will uh be october 19th through the 21st uh you can go over to here we still stand dot org and uh and check out all the details uh the rates low you're gonna get like fed and you're gonna you're gonna hang out and you do not want to miss it you gotta sell what you gotta sell to get there so that uh so you can come hang out because you will i don't want you to like see photos and videos and be like man should have been there most regrettable thing in my life uh was not uh figuring it out so uh yeah

here we still stand out or go check it out and uh and we would love to uh hang out with you for for three days in san diego for sure chad thanks bud have a good one © transcript Emily Beynon