40 Minutes In The Old Testament - Job 11:1-12:25 (Episode 397)

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Zophar doesn't believe he can let Job's words go unanswered and doesn't hold back. Job finds the words of Zophar to be a mixture of obvious and meaningless. And will wisdom die with his friends? Have a listen. Show Notes: Support 1517 1517 Podcasts The 1517 Podcast Network on Apple Podcasts 1517 on Youtube What's New from 1517: Freedom Lessons Album Your God is too Glorious, 2nd Edition by Chad Bird Schweitzer's Psychoanalysis of Jesus Christ: & Other Essays in Christian Psychotherapy by John Warwick Montgomery Free 2023 Advent Resources 2024 NWA Tickets (May 3-4) More from the hosts: Daniel Emery Price Chad Bird

Welcome to another episode of 40 Minutes in the Old Testament. 40 Minutes in the Old Testament is a 1517 Podcast Network podcast. You can go to 1517.org slash podcast and check out all the other podcasts that are living over there. while you're over there make sure you check out all the other things that 1517 is doing events academy courses all the articles all the videos there's a lot of stuff going on over there so uh make sure you check it all out and of course all that stuff is uh is free i mean you have to buy tickets to the events but even those are cheap uh for what you get but everything else you just you just get to partake of it and of course that is because 1517 is supported by

people like you, if you're one of them, thank you very much. If you're not one of them and you're able, we would appreciate the support for sure so that we can keep doing what we're doing and not have any paywalls or advertisements or anything like that. Just make it all free, like the gospel to everyone. Chad, we are in Job chapter 11. Job just got done giving his second response and uh his third friend now feels i mean compelled to speak uh i was talking to you before we got into this and uh in the esv the heading says so far speaks you deserve worse that's a pretty good heading for what's coming up but i think the opening line of his uh his speech is basically him saying, I've got to respond to what I just heard. And Job makes

this accusation about his friends, we talked about this earlier, that they're not really there because they love him and they want to make sure he's okay and they want to give him a sponge bath and tend to his needs, but they're really there out of fear. And that fear, I think, is the fear that if this can happen to Job, it can certainly happen to them, because they know that Job's a better guy than they are. I mean, they're not described as blameless. They're not ones who only walk upright before the Lord. So what could possibly be going on? And whatever it is that Job did to have this happen to him, they want to make sure if they're going to avoid any sin, let's avoid that one, because this looks pretty horrific. Now Job has been venting all his

frustrations, and it seems that Zophar needs to say, not just to Job, but probably to God, too, I disagree. I do not want God to think for one minute that I agree with the things that Job just said. Yeah, and Zophar, he's going to make it abundantly clear that Job should just shut his mouth and repent and then everything would be much much better it is you know the of the three friends i think zophar is the most uh not only the most kind of callous and uncompassionate but uncreative i mean there's there's no compassion whatsoever in speech uh he just kind of he says a bunch of things that are uh just platitudes you know they're not untrue but they're also not helpful at all so uh yeah he's he's got the character it relatively short

speech which is good i mean this chapter is what uh 20 verses long so uh but he's this will be the third one so we've heard from two of them uh and so so far here will be uh number three and then we'll start the second round of speeches so far sounds a little uh more angry than the others too It seems that Job's words have offended him, or at least that he's nervous about the words that Job just spoke. Yeah, you know, part of this might be, I hadn't really thought about this until right now, but part of this might simply be the order. So if Zophar would have spoken first, when Job just, you know, had given his opening speech, then maybe he would have been slightly more compassionate, or at least compassionate to some degree. uh but now that he's the third one and he's he's heard not only has he heard job give all of these

speeches but he's also heard his other two friends give their speeches and those made absolutely no impact on job didn't change the position whatsoever so now when it's zophar's turn he's heard more he's frustrated he's he's angry with job he's afraid that you know well God. He can't remain silent because God might think that he agrees with what Job is saying. So some of that might prompt his response as well. Well, if you were

there and you thought that God was involved in what's happening, which of course these three friends have made it abundantly clear that they do think that, Job thinks that, everyone present thinks that, and then someone starts uttering all kinds of things, and you're really

trying to figure out what it is that God is so upset with this person for, and you think that this person's response is not the right response at all yeah you might you might say okay i need to make sure that god not only knows that i disagree but i'm gonna this i'm gonna do that in the form of a rebuke and that's and that's what this feels like a rebuke yeah you know the the two first friends they they didn't come right out and rebuke jove i mean they hinted very strongly that there were some issues with him and he needs to examine himself and he needs to confess and all that kind of stuff. Zophar doesn't beat around the bush. He comes

right out and says, yeah, this is your fault and you need to do something about it. And if you do, then everything's going to be great in your life. He's a very simplistic theologian. here's how he starts out should a multitude of words go unanswered and a man full of talk be judged right should your babble silence men and when you mock shall no one shame you for you say my doctrine is pure and i am clean in god's eyes but oh that god would speak and open his lips to you and that he would tell you the secrets of wisdom because he is manifold in understanding and this is this is the line that gets me this is the the last part of verse six and this is why esv entitles this chapter you deserve worst because he finishes this section

by saying know then that god exacts of you less than your guilt deserves yeah dude just brutal Wow. That is so brutal. And this is why I say this, is that this sounds, because you're like, why would you do, like, what would ever possess you to do, like, if this was your friend, what would ever possess you to do this other than fear that God is listening and that you have to, because what Zophar is doing is he's defending, God's position, right? Like, he's defending what's happening to Job and saying, well, not, I mean, God's more than just. I mean, God's actually, be frankly,

just to put it frankly, Job, God's being merciful to you right now. I mean, we all know that this is less than you deserve. Oh, you think this is bad? Oh, God could give you much worse than what you're going through right now.

If you put yourself in this situation, I mean, you're sitting there on the ash heap. you're looking at job you're watching you know everything happening to his body you you probably smell job i mean as as terrible as the situation is then you're going to just attack him with words such as this yeah it's it he's prompted by fear anger all these uh all these motivations yeah i mean and he's not good and the words that he uses before this are i mean just well i can't let all this multitude of words that you've said. I mean, I can't let that go unanswered. I mean, a man full of talk, I mean, he has to be judged. Your babble is not going to silence me, Job. That's not what

it's going to do. You think you can just string together all these words and pull together all this poetry, and that's going to make me close my mouth? I don't think so. In fact, this all sounds like mockery to me, and you're going to be shamed for that. I'm going to make sure you are. and uh your doctrine's not pure you're not clean in the eyes of god and i'll tell you what if god would speak he'd tell you this that i am being merciful because you deserve a lot worse than this i mean that's a that's like that's like the synopsis of what he does right here and you're like good grief dude yeah yeah he's not fair at all because you know when he says uh well first of all job's not babbling he's speaking very uh poetically and very coherently uh and he nowhere

is does job mock he says when you mock shonda wouldn't shame you job's not mocking i mean yeah he's protesting he's lamenting he's being frankly honest with god that he's confused by god he doesn't understand what god is doing he has no idea why god is treating the way he's doing because job doesn't deserve it and so far here's all of that and understands to be mockery no that is not the way one mocks god that's the way that one laments to the god in whom he believes but that's not mockery i mean anybody's mocking zophar is mocking job yeah it could be that because he says it's like should your babble silence men so like whatever it is that you're saying is not going to shut us up and then when you mock shall no one shame you this could be even like a throwback

maybe this is part of the reason why he's upset as well maybe there's some pride involved that Job does sort of have this sarcastic tone with them. He's like, oh, teach me your ways. And so Zophar might be holding on to that and being like, oh. So we're over here telling you to repent and giving you this

sage wisdom, and then you just throw it back in our faces, and guess what, man? If you're going to be like that, you think I'm not going to shame you? I'm going to shame you, actually. And since God apparently isn't going to open his lips and speak, I'll do it for him and tell you exactly what's going on here the press secretary for god so far yeah

so that's you know when he starts out like that that uh this this speech is not going to uh improve and it doesn't i mean it's what he says afterward uh is at least toned down a little bit It's not like a direct attack, like the opening words are, but it really doesn't add anything to the conversation either. So he shifts gears in verse 7 and says, can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty? It's higher than heaven. What can you do? Deeper than Sheol, what can you know? Its measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea. If he passes through and imprisons and summons the court, who could turn him back? For he knows worthless men.

When he sees iniquity, will he not consider it? But a stupid man will get understanding when a wild donkey's colt is born a man. Okay, so the first part of this, verses 7 through 10, I feel like Job would just be like, yeah, that's what I've been saying. Yeah, there's nothing new that he's adding here. Hey, can you find out the deep things? Can you find out the deep things of God, Job? Job's like, no, that's what I've been saying. Oh, can you find the limit of the Almighty, Job? No, that's exactly what I've been saying.

It's higher than the heaven. Yeah, I know. I've been saying that I can't argue with God because he's God. That's what I've been saying this whole time. Who can turn him back? Yeah, no one. Yeah, I know. That's the whole problem here.

And then in 11 and 12, you're like, for he knows worthless men. When he sees iniquity, would he not consider it? You're like, whoa. That seems a little pointy. And then verse 12 is just, I don't even know what's going on there. well i think yeah verse 12 esv has a stupid man will get an understanding when a wild donkey's coat is born in a man uh i like the new american standard puts it like this an idiot will become intelligent when the foal of a wild donkey is born a man so it's it's more it's not even a veil i

think it's pretty pretty uh pointed accusation that joe is this idiot that he is this uh robert all to translate a hollow man the the hebrew there is uh the image of being empty empty-headed is another way you could translate that so that's who you that's who you're acting like jove and uh you're not going to get wisdom you're not going to get understanding in fact you're not going to get that uh any more than a a wild donkey is going to give birth to to a man it's just it's not going to happen if you persist in your way of being empty-headed being foolish being an idiot being a stupid man, then you're not going to get the understanding that you need. But of course, if, you know, if Job were to listen to Zophar, I'm sure Zophar would be willing to grant that

wisdom to Job. Yeah, I mean, he really wants Job to stop pretending like you're not a worthless man full of iniquity. Yeah, you know, the opening verses where he talks about the limit of the Almighty, you know, it's higher than the heavens, deeper than Sheol. That kind of stuff is all over the scriptures that stuff is all over the book of job too and this is why i said it just it's kind of platitudes it's like okay you're just kind of spewing forth a bunch of theological truths fine these really are not these are not advancing the conversation these aren't giving me any kind of of hope these aren't really addressing the situation which i find myself so you can they can throw all kinds of truisms out there but that doesn't mean that it's going to be very

very helpful yeah so sometimes it depends on who is saying something and to whom they're saying it as of whether this truth is going to be helpful or not and in this case of course it's it's not so verse 13 uh says if you prepare your heart you will stretch out with your hands toward him if iniquity is in your hand put it far away and let not injustice dwell in your tents surely then you will lift up your face without blemish you will be secure and will not fear you'll forget your misery you will remember it as the waters that have passed away just water under the bridge and you're sorry he's so just optimistic here in an just incredulous sort of way that it's almost hilarious your life will be brighter than the noon day its darkness will be

like the morning you'll feel secure because there's hope you'll look around and you'll take your rest in security you'll lie down and no one will make you afraid in fact many people will court your favor but the eye of the wicked will fail all way of escape will be lost to them and their hope is to breathe their last so this is he he goes from kind of he begins by attacking joe saying uh i'm not gonna i'm not gonna put up with this i'm not gonna sit here silently listen to all this trash coming out of your out of your mouth i'm gonna rebuke you to your face i'm gonna shame you in fact and then he shifts gears and he talks a little theology you know you can't figure out the ways of god preaches verses 14 and following and basically he's saying to job uh if you'll do

what is right then everything is not only going to be okay but you're going to lead this like this wonderful life people will court your favor everything's going to be bright and happy it's going to be a rose life is going to be a rose garden for you for you job all you have to do is confess and put away your iniquity then you can lift up your face and you'll be secure and will live without any fear yeah well it does seem that they definitely believe that job is holding on to something right yeah oh yeah there yeah there's there is he says if iniquity is in your hand but the whole tone of this is listen job uh you can lie to yourself all you want but you're not you're not fooling us we know that you've got some iniquity it's in your hand it's in your heart

it's in your past so out with it confess it and then maybe you'll you'll have hope yeah not until then it seems it seems pretty clear they don't believe that he doesn't know what it is either yeah it's not some like thing he's forgotten about or you know something he just you know didn't realize oh i i didn't i didn't know that i was doing something wrong when i did that yeah they're they're convinced that that he knows uh but he's he's holding them out well i mean if you're if you're confessing if you're suffering like this if god is against you like this how can you not know i mean they give you if you had that theology you're gonna be like there's no way that you don't know why this is happening i mean joe what's the biggest sin you've ever committed

because that's the one like it's obvious i mean this is like this isn't happening to us like what is it that you did that would bring this sort of calamity upon you there's also this i mean this is a a pronouncement of judgment at the very end here too he says but the eyes of the wicked will fail all the way of escape we lost to them and their hope is to breathe their last this is of course this is what job wants right he said it over and over again to breathe his last so what he's saying he's like joe you are this person you are you are this wicked person because your your hope right now is to breathe your last and that is the hope of the wicked yeah thankfully that's the end of zophar's speech yeah i'm i'm glad that he uh that he didn't go on to babble

babble some more uh it's a relatively brief uh 20 20 verse speech and then that you know that's that's the end of the first round all three of job's friends have had their chance to speak at this point and they've all taken you know a slightly different approach some showing at least a little bit of hesitancy and patience and compassion until you get to so far and there's no compassion no patience whatsoever but yeah they're i mean they're they're all convinced that uh job was in the wrong now i mean it's not as if all three of these guys have you know just vastly different theologies because some of the things they've said it crosses over from from friend to friend i think they would all agree that you can't search out the ways of the

almighty right i mean job said that basically so far says this that his ways you know he's higher than the heavens he's all powerful um all these things that he would they would certainly agree on what they don't agree on though is uh what job has done and how he stands with god and what he needs to do to figure out where he stands with with god because they're all convinced that he's done something that's that's wrong and job has not and will not ever concede to what they what they demand yeah and and and job now i mean we're about to get you're about to get multiple episodes of Job, because Job is about to go on a real long tirade here. I mean, this thing's going to go on for a while. Job's got a lot of words to say in chapter 12 and going forward, but he does start,

I do like in chapter 12 the way it starts, because it does seem like he addresses Zophar first, the first couple verses, and then moves on to other things. But But you've got to love that Job says, no doubt, verse—so this is, you know, chapter 12. Job answered and said this, no doubt, you are the people and wisdom will die with you. That's full-blown sarcasm there. You are the people and wisdom will die with you. I mean, when you're gone, I just don't know what he meant he was going to do. So wise.

All the wisdom will just, yeah, we're going to bury you and we're going to bury wisdom. All hope of other wisdom to come will perish. I mean, in verse 3 is a dig as well. He said, but I have understanding as well as you. I am not inferior to you than this. Who does not know such things as these? yeah joe but that last speech kind of uh uh picked job up from where he left off you know we at the end of uh chapter 10 he was in a pretty bad place i mean he felt like he's just spiraling

downward you know into deep darkness thick darkness gloomy darkness all the darknesses and uh now it's like so far speech has riled him up yeah he's ready to go again yeah yeah He's like, after that speech, man, yeah, I definitely got more to say. I'm going to babble some more. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so you have the wisdom dies with you, the sarcasm. And then, of course, hey, I know some things. I'm not inferior to you.

And also, everything that you just told me, there's zero people that don't know that. You didn't tell me anything. yeah those are the the just the platitudes that uh so far you know thought he was no doubt wise in saying but he added nothing to the conversation good job good job saying things everyone knows yeah the sky is blue the sun is hot water is wet thank you for that contribution none of us realized that until you you graced us i guess all that knowledge is going to die with you so far yeah the verse four uh he says i'm a laughingstock to my friends i who called the god then he answered me a just and blameless man am a laughingstock and so yeah he seems to think

that it is uh it's almost like his friends are making fun of him i mean who do you who do you think i am you know am i am i someone that you think you need to come along and teach that the sky is blue and the sun is hot water is water is wet i know these things i know that god is higher than the heavens and he's deeper than shoal of course i know that so don't make fun of me by uh treating me as if i am somehow inferior to you well he also does this thing where he said there's there's sort of a an unwillingness so they say hey i mean so far says you're a wicked man that you are worthless and full of iniquity, and Job says, no, I'm the guy who called on God.

I'm a just and blameless man. Now, I'm laughable to my friends, but I'll tell you this, I'm not going to concede this point. Yeah, and good for Job for not conceding it. He continues to say the same thing that we have been told about him, that he is a blameless man. He is upright. He is just. He's a laughingstock to his friends, but to God, he is just and blameless. And in saying, I who call to God and he answered me, I mean, Job didn't mean that as prophetic, but it really is. Because at the end of the book,

that's precisely what's going to happen. God is going to never, God is not going to, you know, respond to the friends. He's going to respond to Job, and then Job is going to pray for his friends so he did call to god and god did in fact answer him so uh verse five in the thought of one who is at ease there is contempt for misfortune it is ready for those whose feet slip so yeah i mean if you're at ease like his three friends are they have contempt for misfortune you know that that is a it's a very true statement you know if everything is going great if everything is wonderful in your life if you're at ease if you're like zophar you got everything figured out well yeah that that tends to foster some contempt for for misfortune in fact you can even you can

even foster uh kind of a uh what's that german word uh schadenfreude that kind of delight in other people's misfortune yeah when you're at ease you know so but so that's the way it is for people that are at ease but it's ready for those whose feet slip well it also turns out that And other people's misfortune can, if you're living in ease, it can tend to be fertile soil for self-righteousness, which there seems to be plenty of, right? So if good things are happening to you, but bad things are happening to that person, whatever I'm doing right. Yeah, yeah. God must be, I don't know about that other dude. I mean, he's going through some bad stuff.

but man my life's pretty good so i guess god's really happy with me i mean that that uh well that's a temptation you know uh that's the temptation for those who are at ease uh not even necessarily to have contempt for misfortune but to have uh just kind of this naive assumption that just because things are going well in your life that god must be happy with you that's not the way that life works any more than you can say that when things are going bad in your life that God is angry with you. The good quality or the bad quality of your life is no gauge upon where you stand with God. No.

And the contempt for misfortune is not just simply a contempt. I don't think Job is saying that, oh, yeah, you can have contempt for just bad things, but the misfortune happens to people, and so the contempt then is not just for the thing itself, But the contempt moves from misfortune to the object of that misfortune, which is, of course, a person. And so this can happen. I mean, people do this all the time. So you might, there's a difference, obviously, between if you see some homeless guy in rags on the street, you can wonder, I wonder what happened that led to this without despising the person. But you can easily cross into a different thing where you say, I'm so tired of these people.

You start to have contempt for the actual individual, not just for the fact that such circumstances exist. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is what's happening with Job's friends. He finishes this section, verse 6, with saying, The tents of robbers are at peace, and those who provoke God are secure, who bring their God in their hand. I think this is Job's way of saying things are not the way they should be. This seems very unjust because robbers, they're back in their tents, and they're cool. Everything's fine with them.

Like those who provoke God, they're secure. They're at ease. They're carrying their gods around in their hand, and yet everything's fine with them. But I, a just and blameless man, am a laughingstock to my friends, and I'm held in contempt by them. And I've done everything right as far as I can see. I mean, I've done everything right, and yet everything wrong is befallen me. But this seems like a theological corrective here, you know? So their whole arguments are like, Job, as you know, good things happen to good people.

Bad things happen to bad people. That's the way of the world. And Job's like, really? I don't think it is, because it seems to me that there's tents full of robbers, and this isn't happening to them. Like, money is their god. They go and seize that God with their hand. And I don't see them in trash heaps covered in boils. I don't see that happening.

Are you sure that God just doles out his justice with a complete equity? Are you positive about that? Because I seem to think that there's lots of bad people that aren't having nearly as bad of things happen to them as are happening to me. Yeah, Job was much more of a realist than his friends. He's also just more observant of human nature.

Yeah. and he'll later in the book uh his friends will kind of go back and forth with him or they'll talk about uh how you know the wicked perish you know you won't see a wicked man living to to old age and prospering and joe will be like what world do you live in that happens all the time i mean people people get uh you know they get rich off of violence and injustice and all this kind of stuff, and they lived to a ripe old age. So don't go around telling me that the wicked are always going to suffer in this life. And then Job's friends will say something like, well, you know, sometimes God will delay punishment to a second or third generation. And Job will say,

why? What does the guy care what happens to his, you know, his great-grandsons? Make sure that he's the one who actually suffers for his wrongdoing. So Job is more of a realist. He actually sees the way the world works and his friends are kind of living in this uh this castle of their own creation very naive about the way this world works okay verse seven uh he goes on to say ask the beast and they will teach you the birds of the heavens and they will tell you or the bushes of the earth and they will teach you and the fish of the sea will declare to you so go look at creation you know go talk to some animals go talk to some birds or some bushes or some fish who among all these does not know that the hand of the lord has done this is his hand in his hand

is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind does not the ear test words as the palate tastes food wisdom is with the aged and understanding in length of days so what do you think his point is here the point here is that he's he's saying like listen why don't you go ask that bush if uh if i if i'm doing if this is something i did or if god is doing this why don't you go ask that bush and you know that bush will tell you that this is something that god is doing i didn't bring this on myself i i'm not i'm not i have not participated in this like i i'm just the recipient of this disaster and you can go ask the fish or the bush or whatever uh this is another way of saying this should be obvious to you especially if these are people who know him

right so where he said you should know me that you should understand the frustration that i'm in and not being able to parse out exactly what's going on here you should if you know me you It should be evident to you, like super obvious to you, like the bird over there can tell you about this. It seems that that's what he's getting at. And then, of course, he goes on to say, I mean, this is saying the same sort of obvious theological stuff of like God's in charge of everything. I mean, everything that's living is in hand.

This is as true as the fact that ears hear words and tongues taste food. It's as self-evident as that. yeah that makes that makes sense i think i don't know it might be totally off that's how i read it yeah well it does make sense i just i was having trouble kind of fitting it into joe's arguments uh you know especially coming off of those first those first six verses but yeah it doesn't make sense this should be as obvious as uh as something that any beast to the field or the birds of the heavens or the fish to the sea can explain to you yeah and even even even ending with it yeah even ending with wisdom is in you know is with the age and understanding the length of the day

is like you don't need those things to determine this like that bush knows this right like you don't need to be you don't need to so seek out some like wise old sage uh that sage bush knows what's going on here patent patently obvious yeah all right so he uh having said that verse 13 to uh through 15, he goes on, with God, our wisdom and might, he has counsel and understanding. If he tears down, none can rebuild. If he shuts a man in, none can open.

If he withholds the waters, they dry up. If he sends them out, they overwhelm the land. With him are strength and sound wisdom. The deceived and the deceiver are his. he leads counselors away stripped and judges he makes fools he looses the bonds of kings and binds a waistcloth on their hips he leads priest away stripped and overthrows the mighty he deprives the speech those who are trusted and takes away the discernment of elders he's i guess i'll just read the rest of the season this is all kind of this one ongoing speech about god doing all these

things he uh he pours contempt on princes loosens the belt of the strong he uncovers the deeps out of darkness and brings deep darkness to light he makes nations great he destroys them he enlarges nations and leads them away he takes away understanding from the chiefs of the people of the earth and makes them wonder in a trackless waste they grope in the dark without light and he makes him stagger like a a drunken man this whole section from 13 all the way to the to the end of the chapter uh it just filled full example after example of this is the way i'm reading it anyway is listen god is all wise god is all powerful he has all this counsel understanding and everything happening in creation is one way or another being done by him whether it's seemingly good or bad

i mean he's taking counselors away stripped he's loosing the bonds of kings he's depriving some of speech the the deceiver and the deceived are his so he puts water here he dries up here everything in other words is under his is under his control and the implication of that is including my own life yeah so this is not an everything that's happening to me is not an accident uh it's however he did it god was involved in this in other words if he if he can do all these other things that i've just gone through if he's all wise and all knowing all powerful uh bringing one nation down lifting up another nation uh if he can you know go into the deepest depths of the darkness then it's not as if i somehow have escaped his attention have

escaped his actions uh any more than any of these other parts of creation have not have happened apart from his involvement yeah and also and because of all that if you want to know why this has happened to me since i don't know why don't you ask him since you know he's what it does everything you're asking the wrong person right right i i don't know yeah that i mean that's That is kind of the undercurrent of all this, too, is this struggle that Job has continued to have because he doesn't know why. God obviously does, but how can he get to God? How can he have a conversation with God? How can you have an umpire between him and God if this is who God is and then this is who Job is?

so you i mean you definitely are picking up on uh the fact that he doesn't know where to turn because everywhere in which he turns either finds god attacking him or sending fresh troops against him or just simply inscrutable in his ways in his dealings with humanity so he's dealing with a god he can't understand and then he's also dealing with friends who don't who claim to understand god but don't truly understand him so he's got a vertical problem but he also has a horizontal problem. He can't figure out what God is doing. He doesn't know where he stands with God. And then he has friends who are misdirecting him and accusing him and not being in any way compassionate or helpful as he struggles with the questions that he faces.

Yeah, and these last two verses, he might even be sort of alluding to his friends. I mean, we don't know who these guys are, but Job seems like a guy that was in positions of of notability i mean like people knew who he was and he had all i mean you can't you can't have what job had and uh just be you know some anonymous guy and it does seem as he just as he takes away understanding from the chiefs of the people of the earth it makes them wander in trackless ways they grope around in the dark without light and make them stagger around like drunken men as it does seem that uh again i don't know who these people are uh that are coming to talk to him but if they are considered chiefs at all uh it seems that this is maybe talking about

them like uh i also think that god has taken away understanding from my friends uh they're they're over here just groping around uh they're staggering about they don't understand anything yeah joe joe makes eye contact with each of the three friends as he spoke speaks these last last couple of verses yeah well well in verse 20 you kind of i think you can kind of see that too like he deprives of speech those who are trusted and takes away the discernment of the elders right and so don't know but this could also he could be also speaking about them they hear like your speech is worthless uh i of course these are his friends no doubt he trusted them and takes away the discernment of the elders right like you have no no discernment here is coming from you

uh your speech he's deprived any good speech from you yeah and so all they uh all they have to say are platitudes and unhelpful accusations. Yeah. But Joe isn't done. I mean, that was the end of chapter 12. He's going to continue with chapter 13, but we'll have to get that in our next episode. Yeah.

I mean, he's got two more chapters to go of continuing. He's got a lot to say. He's got a lot to say. So we'll join him for it next time. Chad, I will see you then. All right. See you then. We'll see you next time.