40ish - Friendship Breakups in Your 40s, Menopause Feedback & Midlife Mean Girls

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Today on 40ish Lauren wonders if Nicole is a totally new person post menopause. It  kicks off with what may genuinely be the world’s worst lunch and ends as she rolls out of a hospital bed and attends a sip & paint evening (weird as she neither sips nor paints). The 40ish feedback on menopause education has been overwhelming and you are coming in all guns blazing. From rallying cries about women’s health and the absolute state of menopause support in the UK, to rightful rage about medical misogyny. This is the group chat energy we are here for! Today’s dilemma is a brutal one: being quietly dumped by your friendship group in your 40s. We unpack the rise of midlife “mean girls,” the paranoia of “is it me?,” and whether you should go full detective for closure or just block, delete, and emotionally relocate. Plus, we discuss the “7 year shed” Is it true we replace half our friends every 7 years? Because honestly, that explains a LOT. We have also been trolled and Lauren has plenty to say about it. (Mainly, stay under the bridge where you belong) If you’ve ever questioned a friendship, a life choice, or a £34 lunch that tasted like regret, this episode is for you.Get in touch! Email [e-mail] a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/40ish-navigating-midlife-and-menopause--6942825/support.We love to hear from you! Get in touch with your dilemmas and rants.DM & follow us on Instagram   TikTokOrder Our Book hereBecome a supporter of this podcast https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/40ish-navigating-midlife-and-perimenopause--6942825/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Crone energy. Yeah, look it up. It's a whole thing. Come on. That's it. It's the vibe. It's like after menopause, you're in your like crone era and it's like the answer is no and that's the end of it. And there's no discussion around it.

A big thank you to everybody. We have been inundated. We have been absolutely completely blown away and humbled by all of the feedback. I do understand how friendships may begin and also end in this phase of life because it is a bit particular. you're noticing in your non-crown energy era, you have no tolerance for stuff that you may have tolerated seven years ago. Like none. Right. I have got it stuck in my head. See, look, even me bring. I would like a ring. I would like a ring. I would like a dim ring. I'm a wedding finger. I'm like a big and shiny diamond.

Baby. Welcome to 40-ish. I'm Nicole Goodman. I'm. What? I can't stop singing it. I'm Lauren Mishcon. This is the podcast. where we tackle the chaos of 40-something life, each and every week, twice weekly. In fact, we dive into the news, your stories, your dilemmas, your rants, your tales of midlife woe, or midlife joy, or midlife whatever the hell you want.

And I'm just out here singing, Ray, but there's no middle-aged woman who's singing, baby, where the hell is my husband? Not one. I'm only singing that if I'm like, he said, I'll be home in 10 minutes, then he's not home, then I'm singing it. Otherwise, I'm not saying it.

Do you actually sing it to him? Baby. To him? Where the hell is my house? No, I don't, I tend not to sing to him. He doesn't like my singing. No one in the house likes my singing. No one in the house.

No one. That would assume that other people out of the house do like your singing. No one likes it. No one likes your singing. I don't mind you're singing. It doesn't offend me. It should. No, I don't think so.

Anyway, here we are. I think we're quite sprightly today. Do you? Well, let's remind all of the listeners, what they're here for. Yeah, you're here for this. You're here for the 40-ish podcast. And please, if you'd like to watch us,

watch and listen simultaneously, you can do that on the YouTube. But we have absolutely nobody watching us on YouTube. Well, there are about 850 people watching us on YouTube. I don't know who they are. They are. They are. We have 850 subscribers.

Oh, right. Which is not good. It's absolutely appalling. Appalling. But also, we get about 24 views per video. Yeah, but that's because our listeners. are not on YouTube. Not on YouTube because they're middle age like us.

They're only going to YouTube to fix appliances. Precisely. Even that, you don't even need to do that anymore. You just go to chat GPT. What is error code E32 on a Bosch washing machine? Yeah. It usually means there's a hairpin stuck at the bottom. Do you know what I found in my trial this week?

No. My dryer has been really... A one pound coin. I wish. That would double my monthly earnings. Oh, it's a podcast. My dryer had not been drying very smoothly and I thought, right, it's time to do a blue job. I took out the filter. I mean, I did everything. I found, remember when we did that show,

we were trying to be eco-friendly and they gave us those rubber eggs that you put in the dryer? I found it in the filter. It had worked its way through the dryer. By the way, they're not small. No, they're the size of an egg. It was in my filter. They're bigger than an egg. It was in my filter. That's why the dryer wasn't drying properly. How big is your filter? Obviously, ginormous. Anyway, I fished that fucker out. I put it straight in the bin. I cleaned the filter out. I washed it all out.

I serviced it myself. Oh, it's running beautifully now. I mean, you have got a new career. I was so proud of myself. You should be. I know. That could have blown it up. I know.

Like a huge rubber egg sitting in the filter. Two years. The thing was, I've been looking for it for ages because I thought it's bounced. You know, they're quite bouncy. I thought it's, I've obviously taken the laundry out and it's bounced somewhere on the kitchen floor. I couldn't find that. It was in the filter the whole time. Wow.

Wow. What a story. What a weekend. That wasn't even the weekend. That was in the week. It is just wild from here on in. I don't even know what to do with that story. All I know is that schmocko over here listened to it.

I was like hanging on every word. What am I doing? You quite enjoyed it. Don't even lie. You can't top it. I've got to be honest. I was really just enjoying your 40-ish moments this week. I actually wrote them down for you.

Oh, what were they? Well, one is, I've entitled... I couldn't be more 40-ish... I've entitled it The World's Worst Lunch. I mean, that did involve both of us. Actually, it wasn't as bad as when we went to the place to eat. In brackets, the place to die. In John Lewis.

It wasn't as bad as that. Maybe it was as bad as bad. No, it actually wasn't. It wasn't as depressing. We didn't have someone a day. sleep next to us. And also what couldn't she do? She couldn't take the cheese off the sandwich.

No, she couldn't not put the cheese on. Yeah, the cheese had to be on the plate. Yeah. Because of the calorie cam. Oh, yeah. On the plate. Oh, that was the worst sandwich of my entire life. Tell the story of the world's worst lunch. Right. Well, we were at some, a podcast day with the BBC on whatever day it was. And we had a quick lunch break. It was quite a quick turnaround.

We were in Soho and we were like looking for somewhere to eat, which sounds ridiculous. because when I tell you we were in the middle of Soho. Yeah. We were like in Wardour Street. Yeah. So there's like, calves are plenty. There really were. But it was like Goldilocks.

Yeah. Every cafe we looked at or went into it was just wrong. Yeah. It was just so wrong. We just couldn't. I think everything was just wrong. I wanted to go to Bone Daddies and you were like, no, everything's fried. And then we went to the Sam.

Everything. Everything was, I can't eat a fried lunch. And then there was like a whole street market, which, looking back, we should have gone to the street market. Why didn't we go there? We wanted to sit down. Yeah, because we're in our 40s. Yeah. Then we went into this like sandwich calf and then we remembered that we'd been in there before and it was terrible.

Excuse me, you walked in there because we'd been in there before. And you were like, there was nothing wrong with it. So we walked in. Then I remembered how bad the panini was. It was awful. And as we sat down, you were like, oh, oh, it's classic. It's classic so. It was.

It's not, it's a dump. It was all, anyway, we left. Just packed. Yeah, we left. We left there, yeah. Then we found some of that point, the lunch break was nearly over. Yeah. Then we found some of it looked really nice.

Yeah. Bougy as you like. Yeah, it was like full of the ceiling was covered in. Glitory and sparkly light. Yeah. It looked really cool and scandy and like it had an amazing bakery section in the front window. Like the pastries. Pastries everywhere.

Look great. Anyway, so we sat down. You ordered a shatshuka with beef. Yeah, it was a pulled, it was like a pulled brisket beef. And I said to you, have you ever had a shatshuka with pooled beef? You were like, no. And I'm like, yeah, I reckon there's a reason that they don't. put those two things together. The beef wasn't the issue. The tomato base and the fact that it was

stone cold was the issue. And also just to add insult to injury, it came served with, I use it in inverted commas, a bagel. It was not a bagel. It was just round bread with a hole in the middle. It didn't, it didn't even resemble. There was nothing bagelish about it, apart from the shape of a bagel. Don't serve a round piece of bread to a Jewish woman in her 40s and tell her it is a bagel. It's not. It was bagel adjacent. Okay. That's it. I can't listen about the bagel again. I haven't heard it since last Wednesday. You tasted it and you agreed.

You were like, give me a bit of that bagel. And you taste it and you were like, you're right. That is not a bagel. What was it? Round bread. Round bread. It looked like a bagel. Well, it wasn't.

Even had sesame seeds on it. That didn't help. Anyway, what I like is that we can go for a very ordinary lunch. It's always a fucking drama. Always a drama. Never a crisis. It's a drama. Yeah.

I ordered. The club sandwich. I said to the waitress, what is in the club sandwich? Yeah. She said chicken, bacon, cucumber, tomato. Lettuce. Mayo. Yeah.

Yeah. Normal. Standard. Lovely. I'll have that. Thanks. The sandwich comes. Firstly, the bread is about as wide as your head.

I mean, it was like I was going to get constipating on that shit. And it was smothered in cheese. Yeah. Now, she didn't mention. And cheese. No, Nicole doesn't eat cheese. I don't like cheese. I don't get cheese.

I think it's the most disgusting. It's like a bush-tucker trial for me. I just cannot for cheese. Anyway, so it came with cheese. I said, I'm sorry, I can't eat this because you never said cheese. I asked what was in it. You said, oh, I'll get you a replacement. I'm like, thank you.

Off she goes. We had to be back at the BBC thing at like 10 to 1. Yeah. Or 10 to 2. Yeah. And I ordered that at like 20 past whatever. Yeah. it was not coming, not coming, not coming.

By 10-2 when we had to be back, I said to, is it coming? I was fucked off and hungry at this point. She goes, yeah, yeah, it's coming. I said, well, we've now got to go. So she goes, oh, do you want me to pack it up for takeaway? Yeah, fine. So they packed it up. I mean, it was total style over substance, wasn't it?

Terrible. Anyway, so I opened the sandwich because I'm starving and we're paying. And I open it and it's just like smothered in mayo and fried chicken. It was just the saddest. sandwich. It wasn't as sad as the one in John Lewis. No. No, it wasn't as sad as that one. That definitely wins. But it was shit. Okay. It was also, I don't want fried chicken. And it was really expensive. It was 18 pounds. Yeah. 18 pounds. So I said to it's fried chicken. I didn't know it was fried chicken. Oh yeah. It's fried chicken. I'm like, well, I don't want to eat fried chicken.

I said, I'm not eating it. I don't want it. And I pushed it over to her and I said, you could take it off the bill. And she went to say something. And I said to her, I can't be clearer. I'm not eating it. And I'm not paying for it. And she literally, just took it off the bill. She did. You know what I thought in that moment? I thought menopause is great. Menopause is great. I'm taking absolutely no prisoners. No, none. There is a phrase for it. I'm not going to say it because you'll hate it. There is like a phrase for it. No. No. I'm not going to say it to you. Go on say it. No. I want to know. It's called crone energy. Oh, that's not nice. It's not nice,

but it's factual. No. Crone energy. Yeah. Look it out. It's a whole thing. Come on. No, it's, that's it, it's the vibe. It's like,

after menopause, you're in your, like, Crohn era, and it's like, the answer is no, and that's the end of it, and there's no discussion around it. And also,

I give Zero Fax. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Well, you're there. I don't want to be called a Crohn, though. No, I wasn't calling you one.

Because Crohn's, like, in my mind, that's like, someone who's... Old witch. Yeah. Yeah. And very wrinkly.

Yeah. And also wears black. like they're in mourning all the time. Like, I've got my lip gloss on, my hair is blow-dried. Like, I don't look like a crone. If it's crone energy, not crone style. I don't want to be a crone energy. We need to rename that.

We can rename it. We have a platform. Let's rename this. Okay, we'll rename it. Not now, but we will. Oh. Let's people write in. Okay.

Rename crone energy for us, please. Yeah. It's got to be something cooler. It's bit sexier. Much sexier. Sexier up. But also like zero fucks given. After this sandwich and after the BBC and it was a great day.

We had a great day, didn't we? Yeah, we did. We learned loads. We met loads. It was great. We went into Wolf and Badger. Love a bit of Wolf and Badger. Who doesn't love a bit of Wolf and Badger?

And Lauren bought herself a necklace saying, Zero Fox. It actually says Zero Fox. She's wearing it today. And Lauren wanted me to get one so we could have like friendship necklaces, which is very cute. Yeah. But I was like, post sandwich, I feel like the Zero Fux is just written all over me.

It is. I'm sorry, we're going to have to move on to your second 40-ish moment of the week because it's too good this week you're going to have to give both. And it is the fact that on Thursday night, when I spoke to you early evening, you said, oh, I'm actually going out now. Let's bear mind you'd had a general anesthetic that morning. But yes, you were still going out that evening. I was high as a kite.

Where are you going, Nicole? I'm going to, and I quote, a sip and paint. Evening. Evening. Yeah. What's wrong with that? I said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

She went silent on the phone and she's like, I don't even know what to say to that. Firstly, you don't paint and you don't often sip. So what were you doing? I'm going with my paddle girls and I was like, oh, I did go with my paddle girls. What do you mean? Oh, okay. I just thought there's no way you instigated a sip and paint.

If I said to you, would you want to go to a sip and paint evening, which let's be honest. It's a bit more on brand for me. Much more. Oh, you're feeling left out. No, it's fine. It's fine. I mean, I don't paint, but I, you know, I did art and history of art A level.

I'm quite arty. Oh, yeah, I didn't know that about you. Yeah, I'm quite arty. But, and I definitely sip. If you'd have said to me, do you want to go to a sip and paint evening? Yeah, you would have been like, fuck off. No, thanks. I would have.

I know. Sorry, I would have. So what gives? It's so true. You're under general anesthetic in the morning and then in the evening, you're going to a sip and paint. I'm like, do I eat? even know you? Yeah.

Who even are you? That's what you said. Who even are you? And I wouldn't let you have the conversation there and then would I. No, no. We've got to save it for the podcast. And I really struggled with that because there were many things I wanted to say to you. What, you can say them now?

I was like, how much sipping you're going to be doing? Just had a janorana set it. You were like, I'm not really going to drink. I didn't drink. Isn't the point that you get pissed and paint? Well, let me tell you something. The woman that was running it. Yeah.

Yes. That was definitely the point for her. Oh my God. She was. hammered. Were you painting nude or still life? No. Life drawing or still life? No, neither. What were you painting? Like, like geometric shapes. I'll show you if you want. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I want to see. There was a photo on my Instagram for my paddle girls. Did you not see it? Yes, but I didn't know that was at the sip and paint.

Did you enjoy yourself? We had such a nice evening. We had such a nice evening. But as it turns out, I was still quite out of it. Really? Yeah. I was coming out with a whole load of like very profound stuff. And at one point, Chanel said, Nicole, is everything okay? Like, what is going on with you? Because you're saying things that you don't normally say. And I said to her, Chanel, I'm high. She's like, oh, okay.

Yeah. I was a bit like I went into the whole art therapy thing because we've done a show on and art therapy and how good it is for you and why it's good for you. And every time someone said something, I went into like the whole meaning behind everything. Oh, you were in full Dalai Lama mode? I was Dalai Lamaing the shit out of myself. Wow. Yeah.

I'm sorry I missed out on that. That actually does sound like fun. No, you're not. No, no, I am. That actually does sound fun. No, I don't think it was, well, I was like lecturing everybody all night. Are you? No, they were having fun.

They were into it. They were into profound me. Okay. We have had more feedback about the feedback. About the feedback. We have ever had feedback. in the history of this podcast. So if you are not a frequent listener,

what happened was we had a little chat about menopause because someone wrote into us saying, I'm in my 30s and I'm kind of fed up with hearing about the menopause. And it's doing women and injustice in the workplace. Yeah, I'm in the office and I'm sick of it. And it's making women look pathetic. And then someone wrote into us to say,

and we had a chat about it. And then a listener wrote in to say to us, well, we had a chat about it, but we were quite outraged about it. Yeah. We were explained why, as post and perimenopausal women, we feel it is so important to keep talking about it. And a listener did not like the way we spoke about it

and wrote in to tell us so that she found us shrill and aggressive and blah, blah, blah. The feedback about the feedback does not stop coming. I know. So I'm going to share some of it because I'm finding it absolutely fascinating. Me too. It has been utterly fascinating. Hi, Lauren and Nicole. I had to write to you.

as I listened to your recent podcast today, you were talking about the listeners' comments, and I have to say, I wholeheartedly support everything you've said about just how important it is to continue to talk about women's health and the lack of support we get in the UK. I love, in capital letters, that you show your anger and passion about it. Not enough of us get angry or shocked. And if we continue to be passive and accept the status quo, we can wave goodbye to any form of positive change for women now and those who follow in our footsteps. So hell yes, to showing our emotions and to you both for speech.

speaking up about it. I'm in my early 30s so the menopause is not part of my life yet but my gosh your show is so valuable and I've learned so much that when it does come I will be prepared. Sadly, the women in my family completely shut down when I asked them about this topic or their experience. Who knows how many other women don't have the language, confidence or self-trust to speak up and get help let alone their loved ones and therefore push through being completely forgotten in the system and suffer in silence. This episode really touched me and I'm grateful that you brought it to today's episode. Love the show. Love the banter. Elle.

Wow. Thank you, Elle. Thank you so much for taking the time to write in. Thank you to everybody for taking the time to write in. We won't be able to read everybody's out. But we have read every single solitary persons. And actually, Lauren and I have been talking a lot. And it's going to help form a lot of what we do in the future. It really is.

I'm going to read these other ones quickly. Nicole, this lady says, Of course, Jim's a misogynist, not the people, the equipment, developed by men for men. Yes, that is true. That is true. Medical misogyny exists. What on earth makes you think gym equipment misogyny doesn't exist. She's right. She's actually right. Take it all back. Yeah. The menopause feedback has made me so cross. It's not like you shut it down and said you'll understand when it happens to you. You explained why it was so important. As someone who was let down in perimenopause for nine years, I find it so strange that women who are facing this, hormone depletion is inevitable.

there is no avoiding it. And you want to live a long life, are being so negative about other women trying to make the journey horrible word, but can't think of a better one, easier for them. Misogyny from women towards other women is the worst. Yes. Okay, she says, I'm going to shake this off

and get on with my day, enabled by HRT. I genuinely feel I wouldn't be able to function normally without it. So whoever she is, we need to be friends, because, yes, I am totally with you and you are right about the gym. I never really saw it from that perspective, but yes, of course it's real.

And we had one from Talia who says, Dear Lauren and Nicole, I've just listened to your show. I was so sad and to hear the negative feedback from your listener. I wanted to share that I really feel your show has become a very valued safe space for those of us trying to understand what's happening in our bodies with all these baffling changes and symptoms. Knowing that other women are experiencing the same or similar helps us realize we're not alone in this.

And it reminds us we're on a normal path, even though it may not always feel like it. Yes, blimey. Yeah. I wanted to say thank you for bringing the show to your listeners with raw honesty and humour. It's a rare thing these days. Thank you for the giggles. Keep doing what you're doing. It's so important. Thank you. Thank you, Talia. Big, big heart emoji there. Thank you. And honestly, I know I just said it before, but a big thank you to everybody. We have been inundated. We have been absolutely, completely blown away and humbled by all of the feedback and all of the reaction. And we're listening and we're taking it on board.

and we know that you want more of this content, so we are going to be bringing it. Yes, we are. Just before we dive into dilemmas, a quick disclaimer. We're not doctors or healthcare professionals. If there's an issue you are seriously struggling with, please contact a qualified expert. Interrupting this episode very quickly to say that if you are loving 40-ish,

please could you subscribe and share it with a friend? Word of mouth is the most powerful tool we have to getting 40-ish out there and getting more ears on the show. Thank you so much. Hi ladies. I've gone back and forth about sending this because honestly it feels a bit embarrassing but I'd really love your take. A couple of months ago I got what I can only describe as dumped. Oh, I'm so sorry, but not by a partner by my friendship group in my 40s, which feels both ridiculous and weirdly painful to admit. We were one of those groups always laughing, going out, having the

best time. I genuinely thought everything was great. Then out of nowhere something shifted. messages slowed down, replies became a bit off, not enough to call out, but enough to make me feel slightly like I was imagining it. That is awful. That's horrible. There's no argument, no fallout, nothing obvious, so it made me feel a bit unhinged. Last week, I opened Instagram and saw photos of them all on a weekend away together to Devon that we were planning together.

Ouch! Oh my God. I just hadn't been invited. I cannot even explain how awful that felt. I still don't actually. actually know why. I've replayed it so many times and the only real change I can pinpoint is that my financial situation has changed and we have had to cut back a lot due to various factors. So now I'm left thinking if I was just phased out because I no longer fit or is there something about me I'm just not

seeing? As in, am I just an asshole? I feel a bit ridiculous for caring this much at this age. I thought we were past this kind of behaviour. So my dilemma is do I just accept it? And move on or is there any point in reaching out for closure and how do I rebuild and how do I rebuild my confidence in friendships after something like that without assuming I'm secretly the problem. Please tell me I'm not the only grown woman this has happened to. Oh my God. This is awful. You are not the only person that this has happened to because I am seeing this everywhere. Are you? Everywhere. It's like become this big conversation about friendships in your 40s. And I don't know why it's suddenly a thing.

But as this came in, there was a substack that was written quite a few weeks ago by a woman called Annie Scott. This happened to her. And she has written actually, she wrote a substack called My Friend Group Dumped Me. Let's talk about the rise of middle age mean girls. Oh my God. And she had so much response about middle age mean girls. She ended up writing another substack about this subject because people had just flooded her with like. Like, yes, yes, yes, this totally happened to me.

This is a thing. This is dreadful. Like, I've heard of this. It's very prevalent in 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds, like years 7, 8, 9, sometimes even years 10. And I've seen it happen with both my girls and around them and with my peers' children as well. I've seen a lot of it.

And it is horrific for it to happen at the age of like 14. It's awful at that age. Yeah, of course. And for it to happen now in your late 40s or your mid-40s. or your mid-40s as an adult. I can't even imagine how painful and awful that must be. Yeah. And also, Mel Robbins has been talking about it.

Not so much middle-aged mean girls, but something called the seven-year shed. Have you heard about this? No. Okay. Get worried, because we've been friends for six years. Six and a half years? What do you mean get worried?

I got worried when I read about this, okay? Research shows we replace half of our friends every seven years. years, according to one of the country's leading experts on female friendship. Can I just tell you, before you carry it on, that my friends, I have been friends with forever. Well, me too, but don't you also have some new friends? Yeah, it's your my new friend. Yeah, I know. But don't you also have some friends that you did have that you don't have anymore?

Fuck yes, because they were assholes. There is a natural pruning that happens in your life. Don't feel weird if you are getting rid of or making new friends in your 40s. research says if a friendship lasts for seven years, it will most likely last your entire life. Because in seven years, you don't just see the best parts of friendship, you see the worst parts. Yes, that's true. You go through many ups and downs and you get to live a different life with that friend. Your friend will also have seen the worst parts of you and you will have seen the worst parts of them.

And despite this, you still want to be their friend. Yes, I think that is actually true, the seven year cycle of it. Because you can't really know somebody in two years because you haven't lived enough life together. in those two years. No. And it could have been a really easy, breezy, nothing really goes on two years. Yeah. Yeah.

But then you get to our age and like it all goes down. It doesn't all go down. No, I mean like everything's going down. Stuff is going down. Life stuff is going down. Yeah. Hormones are going down right. Yeah.

Like hormones are going up and they're going down and kids are being teenagers and stuff's happening and your parents are aging and yeah. Life is shifting. Yeah. Fuck. Yes. So I do. I do understand how friendships may begin and also end in this phase of life because it is a bit particular.

And as you're noticing in your non-grown energy era, you have no tolerance for stuff that you may have tolerated seven years ago. Like none. Right. Like none. And it has felt very, like I've always been quite boundary anyway, but it has felt this, this feeling of not. having tolerance and I there's better language around it because that doesn't feel quite right because I don't feel like it's a patience thing or a tolerance thing it's like a I just I just can't put up with the things that I've been putting up with I just can't anymore again I haven't got the

language yet and I'll figure it out but it's been very much since I have my surgery it's very prevalent since I've had that so there's definitely something that's shifted and also I'm I'm totally here for it. Mm-hmm. I mean, I don't think any of this helps this poor woman who's been done. No, no, no, no. We've digress. But I would also say, like, I'm glad these bitches have shed you because do you really want to be around people who are treating you like this?

Can I just say? Because there were a couple of questions in here where she said, like, the messages dropped off a little bit, not enough for me to be able to say something. There was nothing was tangible enough, but enough for her to make her feel like she was going slightly mad. Yeah. And I kind of just want to speak to that bit because that's really hard. And also if you're noticing a shift, there's a shift. Yeah. Right. And whether someone is choosing to admit it or be open about it, it doesn't make it any less true because it's a shift for you. Yeah. So I just want to acknowledge that. And also, those things can make you feel unhinged because you

think you start gaslighting yourself. Yeah. Like is in my head. Did I say something the other week? Am I? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so. there's a lot of gaslighting behaviour that's surrounding her which is going to make her feel dreadful, awful, like probably very anxious, like she said unhit. Like I get all of that. That I think is a very appropriate reaction to what has happened to her.

And I don't think it's ridiculous to feel like this at this age. You're still a human being and it's a horrible feeling to feel like people don't like you and don't want to be friends with you at any age. I would be absolutely devastated. I mean, my mum had a falling out with a friend in her 70s. And that wasn't any less upsetting than if you'd been in your 30s. No.

You know? If you and I had a falling out, but this is a group thing. It's group mentality. So it's different, right? And really painful because it's like you're being ostracized by the whole group. And also that whole group has spoken about it because there's no way they haven't all had a conversation about the fact that she's now not coming to Devon. Horrible. That's horrible.

And like why is she not coming? Because her financial situation has changed and they wanted to stay at a nicer hotel. Like what is it? What is that? Because it's not on. I'm like, I'm even trying to put the nicest possible spin on it

that I can possibly think of and I'm like maybe they were staying somewhere and they didn't want to put her in an uncomfortable situation where she had to say, actually I can't afford to stay there go without me so they just went without her. That's not okay and I'm not excusing it. Yeah, yeah.

I'm just trying to think of a reason why the kindest reason why they may have done that. But regardless, whatever their reasons are, it has made her feel completely ostracized. Yes. And that's not okay. She is being ostracized. So what would you do?

Because I know, I'm not saying I know what I would do. I know I wouldn't be able to just do nothing. So you would not, she's saying, do I accept it and move on or should I reach out for closure? I think there's got to be a middle ground. And I definitely wouldn't rush in and do anything. I would think about it. I would calm down.

I would get into a space where I'm not quite as upset about it. And then try and have a conversation with the person that feels closest to me. I was going to say the same thing. Like of that group, who's the woman in it that you feel you have the best and closest relationship with? And do you think you could talk to her about it, not immediately, but have a conversation with her alone about it and just ask whatever you want to ask.

But also that woman has also betrayed her as well. So there's that in the space. Yeah. So you have to. And you're going to have to be very clear about, I actually want you to be really honest because this has made me feel so upset and so awful, I need to have a really uncomfortable

on this conversation with you. I mean, that is not an easy thing to do. And you're going to hear things you might not want to hear. I really feel for her actually. And as for rebuilding your confidence in friendships. I mean, seriously, what would you, what would you do? I'd be so, I would be so hurt. So would I.

And I think I would also feel a real element of embarrassment that I'd been excluded and then I'd found out. Because also, it must have occurred to them that if they're putting photos on Instagram, you're going to see them. Right. Everything. And that feels really has been thought through. That feels cruel.

Yeah. And quite deliberate. Yeah. Unless she's done something that she's just not. aware of. But then tell her. You know. What could she have done that is so bad that they've completely dropped her?

I don't know. But one of them should have said to her if that's the case. You know, that wasn't cool. We're not into that. But I don't know. It's the group heard mentality. That's what's so painful about it. Because if it's one person, you'd be like, okay, whatever.

Yeah. She's not, we're not friends. Yeah. Or we've gone our separate ways. It's painful. We don't have anything in common. We'll move on. Yeah.

But with the whole group, that's hard. Community is hard and it's hard to navigate. Yeah. Especially when it turns against you. Yeah. I'm not sure if any of that is helpful, but I am sending you the biggest hug and I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Right.

My meltdown is we got trolled. Now, I told my sons this. They were really impressed because the troll, as it turns out, was not just some sad man sitting in the room, although I am very sure he is a sad man sitting in a room. But he's just sitting in some room. He's a sad man sitting in a room with like 200,000 followers. Oh, do they know this guy?

No, they don't know him, thank God. But I think he's actually... Is he part of the manosphere? Yes. Oh, is he? Oh, God. I think he's actually like a manosphere, misogynist. Influencer.

Yeah. He's got a website, he's got merch, and he hates women. He sounds great. He sounds so fun. Let's invite him to your 50. And ironically, his website is all about like healing from breakup. So I can only infer that someone did a real number on him. And now he's kind of made it his life's work to help other men heal from heartbreak

whilst also not very secretly, really hating women. But he's making no secrets about it. Not to me, he wasn't. No. What did he say? What sort of things was he saying? Should I read it to you? It was because

You've written something down here This was a listener Feeding back about the story So what happened was A woman wrote in about the washing up She said that she worked from home Half the week, her husband went from home The other half the week

And he doesn't do the washing up Yeah, on the days he's at home The washing up's in the sink And I was recounting the story of The Man who wrote the article In the Huffington Post about How he got divorced over a coffee cup By the sink

Wasn't about the coffee cup Anyway, this guy, he did not like that story at all. Oh, is it because he's got to put a coffee cup in the dishwasher? Is that too much for him? And it's a woman's place. Yeah, he said, oh, yes. How, oh no, he said, sounds like she's looking for an employee. A coffee cup is not a single use.

If it's not dirty enough to get washed, it's not clean enough to go to the cupboard, it's staying next to the sink. women think the world rotates around them and I said speaking on behalf of all women we're not looking speaking on behalf of all women

we're looking for a partner we're not looking for another child to look after and pick up after and I said oh yes the world does revolve around us are you aware that a record number of women

died preventable deaths in childbirth last year and that Guineas has the longest NHS waiting list we are living the dream especially with men like you in the world. Right. And so he said,

and then I sent him links to these articles and he said, oh, a triggered misandrist. I believe that's a man hater, he said, thinking that only women die and only women are on the waiting lists. You do think the world rotates around you. You forget to count the millions of children

that women have killed due to abortion. They've killed more people than all the world wars combined. sort out your coffee cup first. This is my favourite bit coming up. You'll love this. Oh, it gets worse. It gets worse.

Because I'm breathing right now. Breathing deeply. Also, he said, with that man-hating attitude, I feel sorry for your sons. They'll be abused by the women they choose who will be like you. I hope your sons wake up before it's not too late. Anyway, I told my sons this. I was like, it's a shame because I've been told I'm a man-hater and I'm very abusive.

and now you're all going to marry women who are going to abuse you. Like, I've abused you. And they were like, oh my God, mum, this is amazing. Do you know how much you've pissed him off? And the fact he's replied to you and he's like this really big. So they were like, well done. Whatever it was you said, it meant it was true. Yes.

Yes, they're right. I was like, oh, okay. They're right, you know. Well done. Because we should be triggering people like that. Yeah. So I thought about emailing him. privately just to say, hey, keyboard warrior, I'm really sorry that, you know, you've got this sad

life and you're very angry and bitter. But also, I'm like a real person. So please don't call me like an abuser of my children. Oh, I actually saw it in drafts. Yeah. And then I thought, and then I thought, do you know what? I'm not going to change this guy's attitude. He is the person that he is and me emailing him to remind him that I'm a real human being. But also, it's so funny him calling you a manhater. I mean, you raised three sons. I mean, you raised three sons. I I mean, it's just utterly ridiculous, the whole thing. And why is he bringing abortion into it? It's got nothing to do with it.

I think just because generally he hates women. I know, I know, but it's awful. Mine is a little lighter, sort of. Actually, maybe not. Oh, what is it? When I had my procedure the other day, in the Kroen energy era, we've got to change that. Yeah, okay.

ASAP. Yeah. Because I feel like I need to use it a lot. Yeah. So listeners, please, if you have another, better word. Please just bring it. They asked me, when I was in hospital,

they asked me to do a pregnant, not a pregnancy test, they asked me to do a urine sample. She's like, you need to get changed because you're going down soon and could you just do a quick urine sample? So I said, well, why do I need to do a urine sample? Because I said, is it for a pregnancy test?

She said, well, yeah, maybe. I'm not really sure. I said, I'm not pregnant because I was here nine weeks ago having a hysterectomy, which is why I'm back. So I'm really not going to do that. She goes, yes, but they still like, they still like to have the urine sample.

So then my doctor came in, my guine came in, and he's just going through all the forms and everything else. And I said, they asked me to do a urine sample for a pregnancy test. He said, yes. I said, that's it. He goes, obviously you're not doing it because obviously you're not pregnant. I said, but that is so ridiculous. And they're actually making me do it.

He goes, just don't do it. I said, I'm not going to do it. So she came back, she said, have you done your urine sample yet? I said, I'm not doing it. I'm not pregnant. I don't have a you. Like, I don't have uterus. I'm everything.

So just, fuck off. Right? Like, rub it in my face, why not? No, just no. And I'm fine with it, by the way. I'm absolutely fine with having had a hysterectomy because I had it for the best possible reasons at the best possible age and all of the stuff. But those poor women that have to justify having to take a pregnancy test when they've had to have an awful, you know what I mean? Also, if you were, let's say, in your 30s and desperately wanted to have children and had to have a history.

for something else and someone came and asked you to do that. That could be very, very, very upsetting. Truly upsetting. When I went to the, you have to do like a pre-op. Yeah. Whatever. This is before, just before I'd had the hysterectomy like a week before. And she was asking me, could you be pregnant?

No. Well, what was the date of your last period? So I said, look, I'm having a hysterectomy next week. I don't know when my period is. This is a ridiculous line of questioning. She's like, we have to ask everybody. So if my mum, who's 78, came in here, would you ask her if she was pregnant? She said, they even make me ask men.

Oh, for God's sake. I swear to God. She said, because we can't assume anything anymore. I'm like, are you kidding? She said, no. I said, but that question could really upset certain people. She's like, I know. She said, think how awful it is for me.

I have to ask it. Oh, for God's sake. There's no common. Trouble is, there's no common sense. You have to take the boxes and ask the questions. And no one actually thinks, let's use common sense here instead of... Let's assume the 78-year-old woman who's sitting in front of me isn't pregnant. Yeah, let's safely assume that.

Shall we? Yeah. That's my meltdown. Okay. I'll allow you that one. Thanks. It's good. Thanks.

It's good. Wow. We've covered a lot of ground today. Haven't we? Haven't we just? Have we even laughed or have we just been moaning? I think we've done both. Have we?

Yes. Yes. Just vaguely remember. remember talking about a sandwich but other than that i can't really remember much else let's go okay let's go let's go have a cup of coffee we've earned it we'll be back on Thursday