5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - 1. Power

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Welcome to the very first episode of The Punch Perfect Podcast, your new favorite boxing show! Join hosts Emily Eubank, Ade Oladipo, and Liam Gough as they kick off their ultimate mission: attempting to engineer the ultimate fighter. A "Frankenstein GOAT" of boxing. But before serious punches are thrown, we step right into 'The Clinch' for a no-punches-pulled look at the sport. The producers have handed them an envelope containing a massive debate topic: "Fighters would rather retire a millionaire than be a Zuffa belt holder." With the clock ticking down a single three-minute round, the three tackles the dilution of championship belts, whether fighters are chasing clout over legacy, and if the entry of organisations like Zuffa will bring clarity or total chaos. They then get down to business in 'The Blueprint'; the heart of the show where they must collectively build their Frankenstein fighter. The attribute on the operating table is pure, unadulterated power. Each host champions up to three heavy-hitting fighters from history; who holds the absolute gold standard for the most devastating power? Can they reach a unanimous decision, or will it end in a split decision? Then for the final round, Em, Ade and Liam tackle the wild world of crossover boxing: how long will it be before we see a woman take on a man in a fight?

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On good, bad billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. And even recreated squid games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism?

Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on good, bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's what's coming up on today's episode. I thought you was going to go with another middle wave. I will give you dad, bring your up. There is absolutely no human being on planet Earth that says Canello hits harder and got off kick.

Yeah. Ginger people have a higher tolerance to a lot of pain and drugs. Welcome to your new favorite podcast. This is the Punch Perfect podcast, but we'll be attempting to build the perfect fighter. A Frankenstein go of boxing, as it were. I'm Emily Eubank. I'm Liam Gough. And I'm Mr. Adi O'Donupon.

Look, this is well overdue, right? I know a lot of you've been asking for this for a long time. So we're going to have a conversation amongst friends, and it's going to be no fluff. So it's not going to be blocked by broadcasters or promoters telling us what to do. We're going to give you honest takes, and boxing politics is off the table. It's going to be fun. And swear warning.

They're maybe swearing in this episode. More from you. More from me. I will admit that. But we all do get passionate here. I don't swear, though. No do I M says she doesn't swear

but I've heard it M says other stuff Yeah a lot of other stuff A lot of other stuff A lot of other stuff A lot of other stuff I need to be bleaked as well Okay so before we start

I think we should all pick our entrance songs Our entrance songs Yeah so We've sold up the O2 What are you walking out to? I am going to walk out to spitfire by Prodigy

I'm going to be like George Groves Oh Give us a little bit Because I don't know it When George Groves fought your brother That's what he walked a ring to in Manchester.

Remind me. This is cheeky. So George won that fight. He did win that fight. This is wrong. He did win that fight. He's picking a walkout song where the guy beat your brother. I'm trying to get him off that subject and you keep coming back to it.

Who's talking to more? Give us a little bit of a spitfire. They call me Spitfire. I don't even know what he says because he's screaming into the mic. I don't even know what he's. I just know it's something, something they call me Spitfire. Something like that. Okay.

I like to think that was good. And he does that big like quick walk. He does that big quick walk. When you see him coming to the ring, you know, business is going to go down. I would try and copy that. I'll tell why I'd be doing it. Straight to the ring, Spitfire, there you go. Yeah.

Good shot. And you fight a name? What's that? I've got two names, right? So for the longest time, I was known as Liam, the G-man, goff. So it would have to be G-man. So did you name yourself that? No.

Because I got that, no, no. I used the train as an amateur. And the first ever time I went to spar, one of the trainers just goes, here comes the G-man. And it just stuck. People in the gym just started calling me G-G-man. Because of golf. As a Gough, my last name being Gough, right? But also, I used to want to be a boxer, and I often thought about this.

I love history, as Adda himself knows. And I was thought, could I get like a historic kind of nickname for a king or someone and put it in like a boxing name? And there is one name that I love, and it was Edward of Woodstock, the Black Prince. So I would use that. Interesting. I don't know how that would go down. I don't know how it would go down, but I would use it.

So you would be Liam the Black Prince, Gough? Yes. A white Irish guy walking out as the black prince. Yes. Yeah. No, I see how it works. No, I see how it works. I would do that.

Yeah. I would do. I wear black attire, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you are doing now. As I am doing now. used to scare the, you know what, our people. So any DMX song, I'm not quite sure which one yet, but any.

You know that when you're struggling in the gym? Yeah, yeah. I need that extra last, I need that song to kick in and it's DMX. And I think nickname, let me thought of the nickname, maybe like the Super Eagle. I know that's quite bland and boring. You know why? Because Nigerian football team. He thinks he's an Avenger.

The Nigerian football team are called the Super Eagles. Okay. So maybe, oh come on. Let's have a bit of originality. Be something else. He's got Gmail. Yeah, but that makes sense. Give him one.

The hat man. The hat man. The hat man. There you go, you see? I like it. That's a good one. There you go. Ade the Hatman Ola Depot.

Mm-hmm. So that means I have to walk to the ring with a hat, though. Oh yeah, you have to. I'll do it. All right. All right. All right, Ems. What we're talking, Spice Girls?

Oh, hell yeah. We're talking Spice Girls. I like the theory, but no. I am and will always be a Whitney girl. Oh, yeah. So, Queen of the Night. Doom, do, do, do, do, do, do. Good, so good.

Got the standard. Oh, name. I can see you walking to the ring with that. You can't beat me. If I've walked out to that song, you can't beat me. Okay. What are we calling you? What's the nickname?

Pass. Emily Eubank, like, it just doesn't, there's nothing that goes with that. To be fair, it's hard to. Just Eubank, the surname might be enough to walk to the ring with. Like, the crowd would want simply the best. They would. Just once. They would want you to walk out.

And then you can do the Whitney. It could be like a mashup. Yes. Stip me the best and you jump in the ropes That's what we need That's what we need And that'll be in it It's done

It's thud All right guys So the start of each episode We're going to do this thing called The clinch Now this is for me The best part of the show Because what this is

An honest take No holding back Right We're going to talk about A topical debate Or topical subject That we're going to have Three minutes

To kind of discuss Now the producers Are going to give us A golden envelope And it's going to have A statement in it Liam You're going to read out

This statement for us But you can read out a statement, Liam, and we're going to discuss this statement. Nice and easy. We've got three minutes to do it. You ready? I am ready. I'm going to see what this is. Same.

Let's do this. In comes producer Jay. Thank you, producer Jay. Okay. So, clinch sub... Really? Okay. Fighters would rather retire a millionaire than be a zuffa belt holder.

Retire a millionaire? 100%. Just to put this in context, right? When I was 10, I was the only boy in my class to get. 12 out of 12 in the spelling test. I was the only one who spelt Mississippi with four S's. That's about the same level of achievement as being a Zuffa belt holder. Oh. It is. Am I wrong?

Yeah, but keeping it to the question, if you can get the Zuffer belt and a million pounds, you're going to go with Zuffer, right? Yes. People are only fighting for the money. I don't think if you are fighting for Zuffa, you'd be getting a million pounds any time soon. I think that if I'm fighting and I'm not a Zuffet belt holder, but I'm a millionaire. I'm going to be pretty damn happy about that. There's very few fighters on that money anyway.

There are very few fires, but you could still do it. And I would be pretty damn happy if I retired a millionaire, but never got to see that Zuffa belt. Yeah, but there's a fighter we know that has fought for Zuffer that supposedly earned way more than a million pounds. So you can fight for Zuffer and make good money. So in what Emily was saying, it's correct. You can have both.

You can be a Zuffer world champion with that nice little shiny toy that they're given to people and also be a millionaire. But what if you held that belt and you were never a millionaire? What if you won that belt? over Zuffer. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but you're then thinking out Zufu, you could be a belt holder in

WBC belt holder and not be a millionaire. But I have negotiating power. So if I'm a middleweight and I'm WBC belt holder and you've Connor Ben wanting to fight me, I could say, well, okay, I'm the belt holder, you've got to pay me six, seven figures. I don't have that with Zuffa. Oh, I'm the Zuffa belt holder paying me,

we'll pay you what you're worth, however much that belt was in the shop. Simple as? Am I wrong? No. No. No, no, you're not. You're not. But in an ideal world, and look, this is, world's not ideal, you are the Zouffer champion and you are a millionaire.

Yeah. And that is possible. In an ideal world. In an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal world. I would say a most recent Zufa champion could have earned seven figures in his fight. I would say there's only been one Zuffa champion and I would be amazed if he earned seven figures in his last fight.

I'd be absolutely baffled if he earned that much. and even if he did, how much of that is Dana White going to take? You don't sound like a big Zouffer fan. Can you tell? If I'm a fighter, I'm taking the money. There you go. I'm taking the money as well. There might be legacy in that Zuffer belt soon,

but I'm taking the money 100%. There might be legacy, yeah. How many times has been returned to the store it was bought from? Can I ask you a quick question? Yeah. WBC belt or a millionaire? Millionaire. Interesting.

Ring the mouth. So I read it. The main part of the pod. The blueprint. We are given an attribute each week. We are going to create, essentially create our Frankenstein fighter. This week we are going with power. We each have to pick and agree.

I'm looking at you. I agree. And you. We each have to agree on three fighters. And we have to explain why they're there. They can be male or female, any weight, any error. any year, we all have to come to unanimous agreement at the end. Can we do that?

Can we? Impossible. We can have a split decision. There's almost, you think of a hundred fighters with power? Yeah, and probably the hardest punter is probably someone none of us have ever heard of. Yeah. And Bernie Shavers. Oh, she's gone early.

She's gone early. That's not my, there's not my case. Okay, okay. I'm saying you might not have heard of him. I have heard of him. Ah, okay. Yes. I have definitely heard of Ernie Shavers.

Okay. Well, you know, we're all here for a reason. Yes, we are all here for reason. It's good that you know your staff. Why don't we start then? Okay, so if it's not Ernie Schavers, who is your first pick? I'm going to go, I'm going to go George Foreman. Wow.

I actually can't believe me and you were in agreement for once. Oh. I know. He's one of mine. That makes this a split decision already, maybe then. I mean, he's not on your list? He's not on my list. But he could easily, no, he could easily be on my list.

But he's not. I mean, he punched Joe Frazier and made Joe Fraser jump. I mean, that says it all. Yeah. Like if you're hitting someone and they're doing a hop and skipping a jump, then you have power. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was 68.

68 knockouts in 72 wins. In 76 wins. Oh. Yeah. That is actually crazy. Yeah. That is. And not only is he one of the hardest punters, effortless.

When he knocked out Michael Moore became oldest heavyweight champion, it didn't even look like he set himself. It was just right down. That's why I like Georgia. Right. Because most of the fighters, and look, we're going to name ones that really. really set him up, he looks like he just taps you. Yeah. And you go down.

And yeah, he's not in my three, but not mad at you guys. Okay. Okay. Who's your three then? Clearly you guys are going heavy weights. Obvious choice, right? No. I'm gonna go.

I've got a little sprinkling of a middle way. Okay. None of you. Oh dear, what? Oh, do I? So have I? So have I got a middleweight as well? Actually, so have I got a middleweight?

My first pick is probably the right answer. So we could end the show now. It's the right answer. No one on your list or your list, I don't think, as 100% knockout ratio. So he's knocked out every single person he's fought. Yeah, but you're going to be talking about someone that's a prospect then. No, I'm talking about someone actually was a world champion.

He was from Venezuela and his name is Edwin Valero. 27 fights, 27 wins, 27 knockouts. Against two, though. Some good names. Not all, but it was more a case of, it's not like he didn't fight them. didn't fight him. Yeah, but who you knock out that boogeyman. But when you're knocking out, when you're knocking out everyone, it's the biggest what even boxing.

If he didn't obviously have demons outside the ring, we might be talking about him now as one of the greatest. They wanted him to fight Mani Pacquil. They didn't want him to fight Mani Paco. So what weight division was he? Lightweight. Oh, and he had power down there? And he had power down there.

Okay. And he had power down there. That's what makes him a stand out for me because most big boys carry power, right? Even some that don't have the big knockout record. Let a 260-pound guy hit you, you're going to sleep. When a small boy is doing it and you're scared, then it's a different type of power. So Edwin Valero is my number one choice. That is actually a great choice.

I will give you. We might be split, but that was a... 100% knockout. I mean, your guy's not going to have 100% is it? How long did you spend on chat? My next guy's... Google, biggest knockout record, please. On the flight home from Milan.

There you go. There's my prepped on. Now, I did it easy jet. There was no Wi-Fi on the flight. Okay. Well, I am sticking. with the heavyweights from my next pick. And he's a recent heavyweight.

The man from China, the Big Bang, Zillai Zang. He can knock, you see, people would say, oh, while there is, I don't know, Zillai Zang has power in boat hands. Joe Joyce, people said no one could knock him out. Zang did it twice. Flattened him. Flatlined him.

Power in boat hands. And like George Foreman, effortless. He is very slow, a very cumbersome, but he just lets that left hand go and people are just flying out, flying out of the ring. Who did he just lose to there?

He just lost to Ajik Havaya at top heavyweight and he did drop him as well in that fight. Debatable. He didn't fly out of the ring, did he? Cabiard. He didn't play out of the ring, but he went down.

Good choice. Went down, yeah, but still lost. Okay. Since you're in a disagreeable mood, who do you have? Well, I've got another heavy weight also which I guess is going to be the bait one out of everyone's three, maybe.

Or I've got a middle weight. What shall I go with? You may as well stick with the heavy weights. Stick with the heavy weights. Okay. Well, then. we have Mike Tyson. Thank God I took that drink before you said that, otherwise I would have spat it all out.

Okay, debate me then. I will happily debate it. So 44 knockouts in his 50 wins. Yeah. 19 of those in the first round. Yeah. Okay. And he's got one knockout after seven rounds, right?

So if you could survive the first six rounds, chances are you were going on the distance. You could survive the first six rounds. If you could survive them. Not many did survive the first six rounds. There was a reason he was nicknamed Kid Dynamite. You don't give nicknames out for, not everyone's called G-Man. Don't give nicknames out for fun. He was named Kid Dynamite because he had dynamite in their hands.

Against whom? His first, what, 30-odd fights were against absolute nobody's. And when he fought guys who had been knocked out like James Tillis, who went in there in his very next fight against Tyrell Biggs, who was not a big puncher. And he was hanging off for dear life against Tyrell Biggs. Mike Tyson dropped him and barely won the fight. He probably had a big night out the night before.

Mike Tyson, right, people who have had him on the pads. He won a World Heavyweight Tyler at 21, knocking out Trevor Bourbubik. One of the week, he was knocked down around by Bernan Macado before that. Yeah, sorry, before that. Yes. What? Years before that. Years before that.

Yes. Okay. So yeah, Mike Tyson did it in two. Well, he was knocked out in a round before years earlier, but he was still knocked out before. Also, the people who have had Mike Tyson the pads, the people who have fought Mike Tyson have fought others have never said he's one of the hardest punters. He said he's a good puncture.

It's the speed. Yeah. You don't see him coming. Yeah, you don't see the shots coming. It's like someone said to me once, like if someone hits you with a crowbar, it's going knock you out. Someone hit you with a bad hard enough, it's still going to knock you out. It's the same thing.

He hit hard, but he wasn't historically great. I don't think. It was the speed. That was the big thing with Mike Tyson. Could still punch. I don't know why I'm defending you here. This is your battle. Yeah.

It's your battle with him. He kind of got me there. He kind of got you on that battle. He kind of got you in that battle. So you guys are sticking with the heavy weights for me. It's heavy weight. Again, this is too obvious. Foreman, Zhang.

The lower weight guys is where you know someone's got power. Because as I said, you've gone for Gili Zhang. He was 300 pounds. Of course he's going to hit you and it hurts. He's 300 pounds. There was a feather weight. And this is me being a big. of a hipster called Joseph Sadler.

Featherweight, maybe arguably the greatest featherweight of all time. 145 wins. So we're talking when people really used to fight. 15 rounds plus where you fight to the, you know what? I know. 101 knockouts as a featherweight. Now, I'm sorry, that's, you're talking not normal power because Feverewates don't knock you out. Knock you down, but don't knock you out.

This guy knocked you out. And it was in the 40s and 50s. Do your Google research. And that one wasn't on the plane. That's this up here. Joseph Sadler. Just up here, I know that back then they used six ounce horse hair gloves.

Yeah, so did everyone else? Yeah. If everyone else is riding on the same train or going to the same destination. If he's knocking out people and they're not knocking him out, he had a bit more then. So he had more umph in his power

than they did. Everyone's using six. So that means, we're going to take all the way the stats from Joe Lewis. Henry Armstrong? Or maybe his hands. Sugar and Robinson?

Maybe that. Brittle hands. We've got to imagine. We were creating a franchise. Frankenstein here, yeah. Do you want these arms to be a little furtherweight ones? T-Rex arms. But you know what? I want them to be. A surprise. To think about it. That's why Tyson's a good thing. You know, like if you go to, you see them bounces. Whitney Houston's your walkout song potentially. Who was our bodyguard in the movie?

Kevin Costner. Now, did he look like a bodyguard? That was the trick, right? That was the trick. He didn't look like a bodyguard, look like a model. But then it would do you. My guy would come over and you think it was easy, then you're done. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr. Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000.

So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. Have you done three now? I've done two. He's done two.

This is the last round and I am changing it up. I am not going with the heavy weight. I am going with a middleweight. I'm going with the hawk, Julian Jackson. Oh. One of the biggest single punch knockout punches of all time. I mean, this guy,

the highlight real speak for themselves. Single punch knockout after single punch knockout. Terry Norris, remember that? Yeah. Where he turned him into literally stone. Yeah. that man had something else and he was fun to watch

because he would go in it was kill or be killed because he was vulnerable he was a great puncher but he couldn't take the greatest shot so he would try 80s and 90s so he would try

a very tough era he would either knock you out or he'd get knocked out one or the other so he had no chin but very powerful but very powerful yeah it's almost like

yeah I've got to get to you before you get to me basically he normally got to me I know I'm done he normally got it I thought you was gonna go with another middle weight I've gone middleweight.

I thought he was going to go Ghanardi Goloff. That's who my name. That is a great shout. That's a great shout. Yeah. I will give you that, but you're wrong. 37 knockouts in his 42 wins. Sorry, sorry, how's she wrong?

Because the people who've sparred Golofkin and Canelo say Canelo hear harder. There was absolutely no human being on planet Earth that says, Canelo hits harder than Golofkin. Stop it. I've never heard that statement in my life. Canelo hit harder than Golofkin. Golofkin knocked people down. With a jazz.

And their eyes went, yeah. Yeah, come on. Stop it. Stop it, Liam. You know that. Garnady Golofkin was, Ghanadee Golofkin was the original boogeyman of boxing. I will say, yeah.

The most avoided fighter. Like, frightening. And I'm not to say I didn't love Gennarikovkin, I did. I just like Knalla better. Oh, man. And he's got an advantage with being ginger. Yeah. It's the ginger.

So he's a cheat and a cheat. My brother. My ginger brother. Yeah. Ginger people have a higher tolerance to a lot of pain and drugs. So they need more anesthesia when they go under

for surgery, stuff like that. So he's already got that tolerance. So he's naturally kind of cheating already and then he added more on top and that's your favorite guy.

Oh, that Mexican meat. Favorite guy? Mexican meat. Don't knock the Mexican meat. My final one, I've gone to heavy weights. There you go. I had to go to heavy weights.

Now, if you were just to because you guys accused me of Googling, if you were to Google the hardest punch you in boxing history, I think the name would say, and you mentioned it earlier, Ernie Shavers.

I think he was. And he was in the era where we say is the best golden ear of heavyweights, right? The 70s, he was that. And he fought them all. Larry Holmes said famously that when he got punched by Ernie Shavers, it was so hard, his ancestors felt it. It was an incredible line. And you could almost feel all the power that Larry Holmes was referring to.

So I think Ernie Shavers, who had 78 wins, 70 knockouts back then. That's insane. 15 rounds. So he's knocking you out in the first. he's knocking you out in the 15th. Any time in between that fight, you know he's going to get you, and he got knocked out many times as well.

So as you say, he will be killed, but he did a lot of the killer. You're not a clip of Ernie Shavers when he hit someone so hard his own glove bust that opened? No. It's literally you can see the glove like has a like a dint in it

from where you hit the guy. And it's like, you know someone's hitting hard when the glove can't even take the power, which are designed for it. So that was a good show. Ali said that he was the hardest puncher. There you go. He's in the face.

And Ali knows about punch. Well, that state in the obvious, you guys are seem to be like going with my pick here. I'm just saying, he was on my list and then I took him off, but... I just thought someone else would have Ernie Schaefer's on it, and I was right. Okay.

So we've got... Two of us had Tyson. No. No. Two of us had... We had Foreman. Foreman. One Ernie.

One had a guy that had a hundred percent knockout record. Just saying... Everyone Palero. Yeah, yeah. I'm one of the guy is kind of cheating because he weighs 300 pounds. So we should be knocking people out. Okay, let's take Zhang. out of it. Okay, so I'm taking the L on that one. I'm taking Zangor. I'll take out

Tyson. Hey. Who are you taking out? I'll take out the feather weight because he's too small. I like Golovkin as a shout. I'm not saying pick Golovkin, but I think we all knew he could hit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was just ridiculous. I remember that fight with Kelbrook and his record. Didn't it say 37 wins 34 knockouts or something stupid? That's, that's, that's, That's mad. That's mad. I don't want to be the disagreeable one again. No, be it.

But I disagree. I'm going to stick with Foreman. Well, we were two and one there, so I can't argue with that. I think that George Foreman, even when he was trying to hit her, his first fight was in Tokyo. I forget the guy's name, but he hit him with an uppercut, and he literally drove it. It was like he was shoveling something.

And the guy, man, thank God for gravity, because he would have been still flying right now. That's a great line. I'm not mad at Foreman. I'm not mad at the Foreman shite. And you're right, my guy Valero didn't really fight the elite. Foreman fought the elite and put the elite to sleep.

So it's difficult to go. Iron chin as well. And for him to do it at that age, are we going Foreman? Foreman's in. I'm happy with Foreman being in. That's a great start to Frankenstein. It's a great start of Frankenstein.

One thing I'm surprised is no one did say Wilder. No. I'm sorry neither you said it. I'm actually glad you didn't. No, because I just thought. Because he's recent and he has highlight real knockouts. That's why I taught you to say. How are you saying that our knowledge is so basic,

we would just go for sort of like a recent fighter that we wouldn't study for this? Well, yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. It's just a need.

You ask, hard punch it. Wilder. There you go. Job done easy. Are there anyone else from this era, apart from that? Is anyone else in this era that you like, they should be in the discussion? Moses Atamu.

No. You can't put a prospect in a Frankenstein, right? You can't, can you? I say Betterbia. You just don't know. Baturbia is the only one I would maybe. say, yeah, he probably has it. I haven't seen Berturbiev,

trying to think of a word rather than kill. I just said kill. I haven't seen him like destroy someone where they're out though. It's almost like an accumulation of boom, boom, boom. I'm talking like one punch. Foreman was one punch and you are not getting up.

Do you know what I mean? I think Foreman had that. I don't feel like there's not many fighters right now are fighting where you feel like if they just touch you, it's over. Then if I had to stick with Light Heavyweight, I would say Stevenson, because he had the right ball back in the day

and he had that left hand. And if he did touch you, yeah, more than Kovalev. Because Kovalev was a bit like Baturbiev. He would wear you down with the jab. He'd break you down with the right hand. Stevenson, one left hand, it's done. It was like that with him. Chad Dawson.

Yeah, I think we've decided. Foreman. So our power part of Frankenstein. Foreman. George Foreman. The hardest part. The legend. Final round.

It's good knock. I nailed that, I really got that good. I think you have. Hopefully they show the outtakes. So you can see how many times you didn't get it good. All right, everyone. So we are into the final round. How many was that? Was that three or four? All right, everyone. It's the final round.

Oh, fuck, all right. I thought he was taken up. One last guy. Do you want to hold hands again? Can I bring a subject to the table? Very quick, very quick subject. When we went out for dinner. Hot take, let's go.

Out for dinner. It was fun. You were a bit spicy to Liam, but it's water under the bridge. It's water under the bridge. Here we go. You don't need to forgive me. It's fact. Yeah. What was in facts? It was... It was kind of facts. There you go. We'll ask the listeners, viewers. How old do we think Liam looks? Now. So, like, comment, subscribe. Yeah. In the comments. Is there a prize for the winner?

Yeah. And then we'll find out if I needed to be... I would say a solid 28. I can't wait for him to prove you wrong. 28. And next show, I'm going to be like, did you read the comment, Em? Did you? Okay. Yeah. She'll say no, of course now. Yeah, she'll say no. Because she'd be proven wrong.

Emily don't read comments. No charts. No charts. We were discussing amongst many things. This is a crazy subject, but it's the way the world is right now, a man versus a woman. Oh, God. In a fight, right, boxing ring. And the reason we were talking about it is because Clarissa Shields was saying that she could beat Roller Romero,

the current WBA World toweight Champion. And you had a few things to say about Clarissa that she wouldn't drop you with a body shot. She wouldn't. She would say the opposite. I would say she would destroy you with a body shot. Because somehow you thought, because you fought at 16 weeks. of, you know, and you're now 40. That's 24.

I was like, what? 40, thank you. It was 24. Do you think, though, honestly, look, random question, do you think that could ever happen? Do you think we could ever see, like, a promoter do something crazy and say, okay, Clarissa, fight a man? Once upon the time, no, but the way things are now, we've got misfits, we've got, you know,

Jake Paul, yeah, I'm sure there's going to be someone who would want to see it. I'm sure there's a commission in America. There's 50 states. Surely one of them would probably say, yeah, why not? I'm not saying we should. I'm not saying it's a good thing. But yeah, I wouldn't shock me if we did see it. You know what's crazy?

They spar each other. He's holding them back down. No, no, but yeah, but you say that, but they spar. So it's kind of the same thing. Ultimately, it's just... Yeah, it's a fight with that. Yeah, smaller gloves and without cameras. That's what they're doing.

And sometimes it is filmed. Yes, as we saw. So they saw it. So they do it. So they do it. And he dropped her with one shot. Yeah. I don't think we ever need to see it.

No, but we think we will see it. I hope not. We'll see the deep breath, though, in the pause. That would suggest you think there's a chance. I think in something like the misfits era, where it's already influencer-based, it's not real boxing, maybe. But I think any man that agrees to it is, his career is finished.

What can you take from being a woman if you do win? But what if you are Godin? Like Clarissa's, I feel like when Clarissa does that stuff, I feel like she's asking for the fight. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like Rowley saying I'll fight Clarissa because I think he came out and said,

I would never, ever hit a woman. She seems to suggest that she wants it. And I'm sure there's been some random thing. I don't know what country is. I don't want to sort of put a flag on it where it was a man versus four ladies in some sort of MMA fight. And that guy was really trying to knock out those ladies.

Yeah, it's not a good look for anyone. And you know what? No one wins out of that happening. They could put that art. and you'd have some weirdos who would be desperate to see it. I don't want to say it. I don't want to watch it.

Stop it. Stop lying. If Clarissa Fort Roley tomorrow, you are tuning in and you're going to do a video about it and you're probably going to live watch along it. Stop it. You would watch it.

And that's why someone might do it because they know it would go past a million pay-per-view buys. It would sell past that. I can't argue with that. And yes, I would watch it. I would do a review, I would milk the living daylights out of it.

But I would feel awful about it. Yeah. So who wins? Let's do a... So let's pick two. Let's talk about this, right? So let's go, let's get, right, let's Chris Shields fight a middleweight.

Middleweight or super middleweight. Let's get number 200 in the world and put him in there. He does a round or two. Yeah. So you're saying the 200th rated middle weight that fights Claritia Shield at her current weight,

which is heavy weight. Yeah. Her real weight does her in two rounds. Oh, if even, maybe a round, yeah. Based on what? The fact that the strength level is completely different. Listen.

If you... No, no, no. Here we go. Here comes that fin line. Here comes that fin line. Right? No, no. So you have testosterone.

You are just stronger. Pound for pound, sure. That's science. We can't argue with it. But if you're saying there however many weight divisions below her and the 200th one

so they don't have as much skill as her, where's your argument? All he has to do is literally open up a combination and boom the fight's over. That's it. Simple ass. That's all he has to do.

Do you think she's not even technically good enough? Move her to the ropes. Or even if she stays in the pocket too long, little combination, switch the head and body, boom, fights it, it's over, that's it's a wrap. Have you not seen that sparring clip? That guy was a journeyman. And he knocked her down with one punch. She was claiming, oh, the gloves were tampered.

No, they won't let you spar. They won't even let you spar with a fully working pair of gloves if they're not 18 ounce. So those gloves weren't tampered. That's just her way of explaining why I got dropped by some unknown fighter. How did that footage get a little? I think I know. I don't know who. I think I agree with you.

There you go. Two rounds. A round. If he wanted to, a round. Like, the number 200 is probably still a decent amateur. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's some pedigree to it. It's not a guy off the street.

It's some pedigree to it, and he's training hard. He just isn't good enough. How many pounds weight-wise are between middle and heavy? Well, depends if he's couldn't. So, like, officially, a 40-heavy. A heavy-weight female is 175 plus, and that's a heavy. Yeah, that's a heavy weight. And the middleweight's 160.

160. So they're going to be in the ring the same size. Roughly the same size. So you're talking the same size person. We need to broaden the gap then. Okay, so let's say a welter. Well, she's talking about welter weights then. So we say a welterweight then.

Same thing. In particular, actually, a welterweight would have serious amounts of speed, even a low-rank welterweight. Which is the what, like a Ryan Garcia? Is that one-for-seven? Yeah, it's a problem. 147. Yeah, it's too fast.

Would drop Larissa Shields in two rounds? Yeah, yeah. It's too fast. She could sit on him. You know it is, though. He'll be too fast. He will be too fast. This is the problem.

When you go smaller, that is too quick, aren't they? Yeah. That is too quick. But what about what Emily said, though, about technically. Like, technically, Clarissa technically is better than number 200 technically. I'm not talking power. I'm talking just fundamentals. Clarissa will be better.

She will be better, but I think at some point the technical ability, if you're talking with someone who's faster, who hits harder, who has the physical strength, you know, that could probably negate a lot of that technical ability. As I said, if she just stays in the point. pocket a little bit too long. He opens up one combination, it lands. That's it. It's over. I wonder why she said it. If she catches him, she can drop him. No. No chance. Oh, okay. That's ridiculous. No chance. I'll give you that. If he catches her, he could drop her, but you have to give that the same way. Well, no, Clarissa Shields has fought. And Christa

Schill's, I want to point this out, is a tremendous fighter. And she, it's not her fault that there aren't particularly good females in her division. He's doing this so he doesn't get a tweet from her. I've already got a tweet from her before, so it's fine. But some of the females in her division, they're not as good as the Katie Taylor to the world or in that division. She's unlucky in that sense, but she's still not stopping these girls. And she's significantly better than them. Yeah. It's not happening. And she's cracking them. And she's hitting them flush, yes. She hasn't, she hasn't got that power. She hasn't got, I don't know. So are there females with power that we can put in this scenario? Savannah Marshall comes to mind. She's got power. Yeah, Savannah Marshall has laid out

females. She's done that in the past. She would be one of the few females I'd look at and say you have genuine punching power, but for the most part now. You know, I want to know, and I feel like we're almost sticking up for Clarissa here, why does she say she could beat Ralea Romero? I would suspect. I find it quite disrespectful, and I feel bad on him. No, because all boxes think they can beat everyone, right? There's not a boxer in the world that doesn't think they can beat every other boxer in the

world. That's the mentality they have to have. I think females do that for females, and I think males do it for males, but I've never heard it the other way around where females say she could be up a male world champion. So this is someone at the pinnacle of their sport. Because she's the pinnacle of the sport as well. Yeah. So she thinks they're on a level playing field. We're never going to prove this debate. I hope we never get to prove this. I generally hope because I do think there's a billionaire out there that will be like, okay, really. And we're talking America. I mean, you can get licensed

to fight wherever, whoever, whenever in America. There is some crazy state which would allow and they would make the argument to say that, look at her credentials, look at his credentials, she's so much better. He's kind of nobody. He's lost 25 times. We could do this. There are states where someone could walk in, wearing glasses,

not able to see straight and they'd say, perfect, yeah, you can fight. You'll see the shots coming. Oh, you never saw him coming? Oh, well, not like we didn't know. There are states he'll do that, and there are states that will definitely sanction this. I hope to God we'll never see it.

Very quickly, as the female here. Yes. Do you think Clarissa would have a chance against Ronald Romero? Yeah. Oh. Everyone has a bunch of chance. Ring that bell. Ring that bell. Ring that bell. It's been a great episode. We thank you all for listening.

Make sure you download the podcast, like, share, subscribe, all that good stuff. We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to this latest episode of The Punch Perfect podcast on BBC Sounds. Listen up. You can download BBC Sounds from the app store and subscribe to the Punch Perfect podcast where you can listen to all the series. The Punch Perfect podcast, engineering the Ultimate Fighter, is an Insanity Studios production for BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds. The boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos. On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera.

And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.