5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Benavidez v Yarde: The Fighters

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Can Anthony Yarde do something special to win a world title at the third time of asking or is David Benavidez too mean? Buncey is joined by Sergio Mora to break down that fight and Saturday's stacked bill in Riyadh. He catches up with Anthony Yarde and two of the unbeaten prospects meeting for a world title on the undercard, Sam Noakes and Abdullah Mason. We'll have live commentary of all four world title fights, starting at Saturday night at 11pm on 5 Sports Extra and BBC Sounds.Plus, there's Moses Itauma's reaction to the announcement that Anthony Joshua will face Jake Paul next month.

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That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash P-O-D-C-A-S-T. This is Five Live Boxing. Four world title fights on one night, all of them exceptional fights. You know where I am. I'm in RIA. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. Now, I like to get to Las Vegas seven days before a fight.

I even go to fights in London for seven days. Now, for this week, I've made an exception. I'm tired, give me a break. I've come to Riyadh late on Wednesday. It's Thursday, but I'm with a man who's not just got off the plane. He's been here all week. Sergio Mora, when did you get in? I got on Sunday night, Sunday morning.

I forget about the days. I don't know. It's morning, noon night. I'm coming from Los Angeles, right now. It's the morning time. 13, 14 hours behind. 14 hours. So, yeah, I'm confused, but I love it.

Yeah, we all love it, don't we? I mean, I always do an apology when I'm in Saudi Arabia, or when I'm in Las Vegas or New York or anywhere. I always do an apology to people that don't go, don't have the privilege that we have of going overseas to sit at ringside for fights. That's why we have a no, now I know you've done a little bit with me before in Guadalajara, but we have a no moaning policy on this pod. You could never ever complain about anything in the week of a fight.

You can't ever complain that the water wasn't strong enough in the hotel, that your breakfast, the eggs weren't cooked. You could never complain because you get sacked. It's that simple, brother. Steve, I'm a glass, half-full type guy. That's why I hate working with Chris Mannix. He's a black cloud. Everywhere I go, Chris Manich is sad.

He's mad. He's gloomy. This is four fights. Ring four, they're calling it. Four world title fights. Something ridiculous. I've got it down there. I'm going to have to read it out to make sure that.

You really got serious on me. No, no, no, no, not that serious. Not that serious. 176, seven of the guys are unbeaten. 176 fights without defeat. I'm not saying we could probably go back through history and find a card like this, maybe under the Don King days 25, 30 years ago.

But this is a special bill. Where do you want to start? Who do you want to mention first? There's four fights. Who would you like to mention first? Well, listen, of course I got to go with Bam Rodriguez. I mean, that's Barry Jones' favorite fight. I mean, he loves it.

Every move, every pivot, every speed. Pivot. Because little guys appreciate little guys. I love that. Abdullah Mason, Sam Nokes. That's going to be a 50-50 type fight. Undefeated fighters fighting for a world title. I love the fact that they're opening up the bill.

Of course, David Beneveder, I think... The monster. Anthony Yard's going to do something special. He fancies a yard. I think he's going to do something special. We're going to hear from Yard at a moment. But Yard is just a bit... He seems serene and calm.

And he's been against it before. It's nothing new to him. He's been there. He likes the sound of it. And then we haven't even mentioned the one that's really getting the Greek going. Brian Norman Jr. Devin Haney. Where's the anger coming from, search?

The fact that Haney started off as the favorite, and now the champion is the favorite. I can't believe it. The odds are changed. Now Brian Norman Jr. is the favorite. A lot of people are realizing that this man is more than just power. He has timing. He cuts off the pressure. He knows how to get the leverage in.

He's more than power. power. I mean, yes, he has granite in both fists, but man, he's scary. Now, also, we're going to hear from Abdullah Mason a bit later on, and Sam notes. I sat with Abdullah Mason. We'll talk about him in a moment. He's 21, he looks 12, and he's still got,

he's still, how can I say this about a guy that might be winning a world title in a couple of days' time? But he's childlike, but nicely childlike. He's not, you know, there's nothing silly about him, but he's just, I'm going to use another word that's really odd. He's innocent. How can he be innocent? And I'm beating and smashing people like

He does. Because he's not, you know, boxing hasn't really got the worst of him. He hasn't gone through the business of boxing, losing, having a bad fight. You know, so he's 21 years. 21. He's a youngster. You know, he hasn't really gone through the fire yet, but he's a beast. He's a monster.

You know, he really is a beast. I like all of the fights, but I'm going to, we're going to start with Yard against Benevedes. We're going to hear from Yard in a moment. Previously, Anthony Yard, hard fight. with the Tabibiev, really hard fight, gets stopped, but he's really late in the fight, and it's a hard off fight. He didn't try and survive. He tried to win, and then, of course, the fight in Cheleabinskin near Siberia out in Russia when he lacked the experience and he hurt Kovalev. It really had Kovalev gone in the eighth round, but then gets knocked out with a

very stiff jab. People say it's a jab, but it's more than a jab. You know, you understand that. No, he met him halfway. It wasn't more than a jab. Especially coming from Kovilov. Absolutely. So that was, he's not that old yard, but sometimes it's not about age. Sometimes it's about miles on the clock. What's your gut feeling going into this one? I don't think he has much miles either. I think that's experience. He started late.

He didn't have an amateur background. He only had a dozen fights. He wasn't worn by 200 amateur fights. The fact that his body's so preserved and he's so hungry and he lost the two of the absolute best and biggest punchers at 175. The fact that he's a natural light heavyweight fighting a guy that's coming up. A light heavyweight hasn't been able to prove that he carried his power, Benavitas for the 175.

So I love the fact that he's in a great position to prove that the third time is the charm. Anthony Yard is going to do something special. I don't know if he wins, but I think he's going to hurt Benavitas. He just punches too hard. I think the momentum is there. I think all the stars have aligned. And I love the fact that he's been marketing himself. I mean, put him in front of a camera and a microphone.

He's been selling it. We had him on camera yesterday. He's excited. He wants to be here. He wants to be here. It's exuding out of him. and guys like that man sometimes magic happens for them

and Benavides you've been around them a lot more and I've been around him are there any signs that would be disturbing in the build up to a fight so does his attitude change you know in the days hours weeks before a fight have you noticed anything like that is there anything I should be looking for

if I bump into him or is he just like just cold he's mean man he's mean yeah I was I was throw me something to help me I wanted something I wanted to tell me something I've known David Benavitas

I called one of his fights against Porkyman Medina. This was in 2000, I want to say, 2015, 16. And I talked to him afterwards after the fight. I told him, man, you're going to be a champion. I go, you got the hand speed of a light weight with the power of a light heavyweight. I go, you're going to be special. He goes, I appreciate that, man. And then he gave me a little scowl and he gave me, you know, he's just always been mean. He has a chip on both shoulders. That guy's always been mean. Now with the success, now with all the knockouts he's had with former champions. He's a monster. He's the future of pay-per-view.

Mexican boxing here in the States. He's the next Canello. Once Canelo's on the way out. That's a belt that Mauricio Suleiman hasn't yet built, but you probably give him the idea for that one. Trust me. Now I sat down with Anthony Yard and he seemed relaxed, but you know,

he was aware of the pressure. And I first started to talk to him about, basically, suggesting to him that perhaps there was an easier route to a world title rather than Kovalev, Betabiev, and the monster. It's just the way I am as a person. I just believe in

when you're born everyone's got different paths and life and when I decided to start boxing I had a vision in my head I had a dream and that was to become a world champion so when I decided to turn pro

today my trainer was telling me I was ready to turn pro over a year before I actually turned pro but for me it was in my head I needed to be confident in knowing that I can only turn professional when mentally, it's like I don't care, and I'm not a phase about what people think, about other people's opinions.

So when I got to that stage where it was genuine, when it was, you know, I only care about how I, what I think about myself, you know, not really caring about the opinions of others, that's when I decided to turn professional. So it wasn't for me, the route, I could have thought anybody. It could have literally been anybody. And I would take the opportunity

because I feel like it's a, you know, it's a blessing. It is a blessing. So once you turn pro, it just seems like so long ago now, we were first talking. 10 years? 10 years. 10 solid years. And then that mad week in Telia Binsk

and then the mad week in London before, better be ever now out in Riyadh. I remember talking to you once and saying, what I want to do is walk down the street in 10 years' time and bump into you with your family, knowing you've won a world title, you've made lots of money, and you're happy and you're settled. Well, hopefully you're getting closer and closer.

Yes, I am. And it's a beautiful thing. And this is why I'm so, you know, this is why I train so hard. I feel like you're rewarded for your hard work. That's genuinely how I feel in life, because we're here for the third time. You know, this stage that I'm when today, headlining a show like this in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

All world title fights, you know. I'm literally a fan of everyone on the show. Yeah. As a boxing fan, and I'm headlining, so it's always going to be an honor. You'd be a fan of Ante Yard if you were a fan. Oh, 100% man, that would be my favorite. I'd be like, that guy's serious. Would he be your favorite fighter?

He'll be my favorite fighter. He'll be my favorite character. I'd be like, yeah, that guy, he's, he gives. the definition of a throwback fighter. He's got a throwback fighter's mentality. He's in boxing to fight anybody to fight the best and to entertain. You know, it's really, that expression gets overused and it's really careful when journalists like me above a certain age use throwback because people think I'm talking about it was all much better than, it wasn't all much better then. But a throwback fighter, you'd be a throwback fighter in an era, the 20s, the 30s, the 40s,

the 50s, in every area. You are genuinely a throwback fighter. A bit fearless, a bit stupid, if you Don't mind me saying so in some ways. No, I agree. I agree. We're all being stupid. Makes good fighters. No, I agree with you 100%. Definitely.

You know, I was watching back that Chellia Binsk fight against Kovalev. And I was thinking about that week when we're in that remote place, middle of nowhere. And then I was thinking about the fight itself and I was watching some of the rounds and watching the ending. That was a savage fight.

Definitely. That was a brutal fight. On that fight alone, you proved, you proved yourself. And that fight, you could have walked away after that. You wouldn't have the money, you wouldn't have the world title, you can win on Saturday night, but you could have walked away after that fight. Yeah.

When it comes to, you know, honour and being a warrior, then absolutely. But there were so much more, you know, and we've seen it. I've had two fights, I would say, in my whole career. I'm 30 facts in now. And two of them facts. It seems impossible. Time flies. And there's only two facts, which you can say I've had, you know, any bruising.

You know, I've taken any real punches. So again, that's, again, for me, a blessing. You know, so it means I'm still fresh. And this is why you're still seeing me improve. Kavilev, a bit, were very, very much green inexperienced. Better be if you saw a better version of me, showing different attributes. And then this fact, you know, God willing. you see the best version of me.

I know it's just no consolation, but I think you took a lot out of both Kovalev and Betterbe. Almost definitely. You saw it afterwards. Yeah, no, no. And they said it. I believe that. I think,

and they both complimented you massively. It wasn't just standard compliments that you give a guy you've just beaten. They were real compliments. Well, we know, Kovalev came to us in the ring when I was talking to you. And that was genuine. That was heartfelt. Yeah. Plus, the fact, you know, by beating you, he secured the Canelo payday,

which was the return. But I think you took a lot out of those two guys in that fight. So let's move on to Benavides. I've been following Benavides. Don't get me wrong. And I like him and I know what he's done. But this week, he's turned into the greatest light heavyweight ever created. No, no, and he's a good fight.

Don't get me wrong. But I'm reading stuff and looking at stuff and hearing stuff. He's making proclamations about what he can do and what he's going to do on what he's done. And I'm thinking, you're perfectly good fire, son, but, you know, you ain't Bob Foster. You ain't Roy Jones at his peak. You know, as a current fighter, I feel like, you know,

he's entitled to say and feel how he wants to feel because, you know, he's beating World Champions. He's still undefeated. We'll see how that's going to be after Saturday. You know, and then, you know, the media, you know, the promotions very much behind him and pushing him or whatever. And so they should be, but for me, in my head, it's just very, very much motivating. Does that take pressure off you?

A lot. Yeah. For me, there's no pressure anyway. But for me, it's just like, in my head, I've got the better the opponent, the better the victory. Yeah. The better you need, the better you are. Better I am. The better the victory.

So it's like, if I'm. thought for a vacant title against a guy I'm meant to beat. Excellent. It's going to feel amazing. I'm world champion, et cetera. But beating, quote-unquote, the guy at the weight division is historic. It's different. Now, some people are talking, not me, I hasten to add, that this is sort of the last

chance saloon for Anthony Yard. But I tend to agree with you. I think you're still young enough. And I think that the two fights we talked about are the two fights that take a toll. on a fight. You haven't had 16 of them, 14. So this is not, this is not like the last chance to lose. This is just another chance with a world title. That's it. And for me, it's just staying focused on a simple task in hand.

When I say simple, I mean, like, if you simplify it, it's one occasion. It's right now. If you focus on now, I feel like, you know, you get more out of it. You know, when people start focusing on, you know, the potentials and after. And, you know, 10 years from now, what are you going to be doing? doing a lot of exactly. It's fairytow. Because boxing's a really simple business, isn't it?

I mean, you can complicate all you like. At the end of the day, it's a really simple business. Keep it simple. ABC, one, two, three. Fruits and vegetables and meat. And have a code words from the corner. That's it. ABC, one, two, three.

Very simple. Just keep it simple. Listen, and it's always a pleasure talking to you. I mean, thank you. And it's not over yet. We're going to do a lot more talking, don't remember about that. It's not bad. So we talked in a, we talked to in a dreading,

in a horrible basement gym in Chileabins. We've talked all over the UK. You've been on my sofa when it was on Box Nation, the tiny studio in the world. Here we are in a... We're underneath chandeliers in a hotel in Riyadh, man. Life changes. What a business, eh?

No, what a business is here. I mean, you guys in the ring, us guys outside the ring. It's just a crazy business, I know. I know. I could be in Miami watching AJ and Jake Paul in a couple of weeks. I could be in Accra watching Dan Aziz against Greg Richards. I could be in Nigeria the night before watching David Adelaide.

All kids I've known for you. he is. It's crazy, isn't it? No, it's actually becoming global. It's going back to the Muhammad Ali days. Yeah, it feels so, isn't it? Fault everywhere. People don't give that enough credit. They could, yeah, they couldn't the greatest, but he was actually a world champion.

He fought all over the world. So, Sergeant, that was Anthony Yard there, nice and relaxed, but what's interesting, what's really interesting is he admitted to me that these weeks are draining. Now, you, you know, your first great big, when you came to attention, was on a television show where you had amazing demands on your contender, which you won against a much better cast that people maybe can remember. But these boxes on these bills,

and you've been out here like me a lot of the times, and you've been on these other ring shows around the globe or re-ed season shows. They're six-day events. They're full-on six-day events. I remember Lennox Lewis pulling me aside when he was out of one of the fights. He went, Buncey, are they doing this every day?

Monday through Friday. He went, yeah, he went, oh, man, they're crazy, man. I would have done. And he used to do one-day, Lennox. The fighters, I'm not saying a fight can be won on lost Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, but you have to make sure you stay sharp. They're hard weeks.

Listen, if you want to make the big money, and you know that Turkey Alashake is paying big money for these events, then you got to understand that it comes with marketing, it comes with inconvenience, it comes with traveling halfway around the world. You want to make those seven-figure paydays those pay days that you can't make in the UK and the States,

then you got to bite off more than you can chew. and you got to chew it with a smile on your face. You know what, so? That's absolutely true. And inconvenience is a word that maybe people don't want to mention because it's inconvenient. But that's absolutely true. There is inconvenience. But I haven't yet met a fighter who said to me, yeah, I said no to a fight in Saudi Arabia. No one's saying no to that or under the ring or the Riyadh season auspices.

Now, I also spoke to Sam Noakes in his gym about 10 days ago, and he was really calm. And I spoke to Abdul Amazan. We're going to hear from Sam Nokes first. And the thing with Sam is that, well, Sam just, well, let's just listen to this. He can't really believe his luck that he's here. Every fighter in the country has been wanting to get on the Saudi build, and I'm just happy that I'm on one of the bigger ones fighting for a World Title, I think.

So I've been out there three times myself to watch the Fury fights on, obviously, Moses. Yeah. So I've got a little swing around how it all works out there, and obviously no good gyms as well. And a few of the other boys have been out there a few times more than I have. So I think we're going to be, we're going to start, it's all we know what we're expecting when we get there. And you're fighting, you know, it's not a salve,

you're fighting, you're fighting an American, but he's a reed season ambassador. You know, so he's the, he's the, not necessarily that, not just the house fire, but he's the sort of, he's, he's the chosen one. Let's not mince that. He's the A side, look. He's the A side, and we're all big boys here. Yeah, I don't, to be honest, I ain't really built a lot of thought to that anyway. That's never really bothered me my whole career.

I don't mind being the underdog. Anyway, I think it's a good mentality that I've always had anyway. It takes a bit of pressure, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, listen, to be honest with you, it's like, I've always felt more pressure getting to the position that I'm in today because you haven't really done anything before now I've only got one more fight and then my life's changing

that's exactly what I've been telling myself this whole camp one more fight and then you've done what you've not set out to do but you've definitely it made history and is the fighter in you you're kind of excited the fact that you're fighting this young kid it's unbeaten and everybody's like praising because you know in the past

fighters have had world title fights that are nowhere you know that sometimes I hate to use the word but a lot of easier looking on paper. Would I like an easy world title fight. Believe it or not, that's the correct answer. That's the right answer, Sam. That's the sensible answer.

I feel like, it's just exciting, really. I think you're never going to get an easy, easy world title fight. I'm not in the lightweight division, no way. Not in a moment. No, no, I don't think it is. Yeah, but I think it's definitely a winnable fight. It's never, well, shall we take this fight? There's no hesitation from my hand.

I was straight in with a yes. How did you, how did you find out about this fight? I mean, because in the past, Turkey Alasheek has reached out to people directly. How did you find out that you're going to be fighting Abdullah Mason for the vacant World Title on this car? So how I found out, we were on, funny, we went out to Rome for Sean's birthday, yeah, and they always joke about me, making everything about me. And obviously, like, the day of his birthday, got the phone call saying, oh, like, Kishaw's Miss Wade, you're in the number one spot, so you'll be fighting,

you'll be fighting for this world title. and then obviously like all laughing time we're all going on bad at the world title and then I think obviously the WBO ordered it

and then I think it's a few weeks of like maybe going back and forth or whatever and then it got confirmed probably just before New York before that show got announced and then yeah I can't remember

it's been so long ago since I signed the contract but as soon as he come over I signed it and you mentioned there the depth in the lightweights all those big names now one of those big names

Shakur a few months ago but started this year if I'm not mistaken. He was down here in that, in that ring. And you did some rounds of him. And obviously, I'm with you. I agreed at sparring stories,

a sparring stories, but it must have been good sharing the ring with a guy like Shakir. Because there's two sides to Shakira, isn't it? By the way, there's like two sides to him. Yeah, no, it was good. I mean, obviously, initially,

when I first found out, I thought how it was Stitching right after here. Was it Sky, Scott Nicholson? Yeah, well, yeah, because she put it in the group chat, didn't she? And then I was thinking, don't say it.

I knew where this is, I know he's been asking for sparring. And then, Obviously when we got it, got in, I remember the first rounds were a little bit cagey trying to work each other out and obviously had the four minute rounds, but after that they were competitive sports.

And I think it's good to get the feedback that I got from, well, he's boxing great, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three-weight world champion. And I think it's nice to hear it from someone and obviously knows what they're talking about. Yeah, because I remember the time you tell,

I heard you tell it or you told me I was with some people around you. And you're saying that what it does, it gives you a gauge of the difference from where you are to where you got to go. And those margins aren't as big as you think. Well, that's what I mean.

I think, obviously, when you see all these names, like Schorkel Stevens, even when you see him walking the gym, it's weird, isn't it? You think normally just used to see him on the telly, and then, well, it's not, you know, with yourself critical, but you always think, oh, God, they're unbelievable, they're unbelievable, they're unbelievable, but then when you see, as you say, you get in there, and the margins aren't that far away, and I think, for me, that spark couldn't come at a better time, especially where I weren't, I weren't even in camp.

Yeah. It was not before I was eating Chinese, you know what I mean, but. When it was, when this bill was announced, it was announced a long time ago, with this whole bill. You're out in New York, weren't you? Obviously. Yeah, you went out there for that. You probably can't remember that because you had a couple of big nights, but that's not very old there. We'll talk about that another time. But when you're out there, what did it feel

like when you're up on that stage and suddenly there's all those fighters on that stage? Devin Haney's on that stage. There's all that sort of glam and glitz. It was mad to be. It was mad. It was mad to be. I remember when I sat down, obviously, I was right at the end and obviously they all come on. And then even after, I said, I had my short

little piece there. And then when we went outside, Devanani got flag by all these people on the autographs pictures all this and that and then before he went he was like I'll see you later champ shook my hand and then everyone sort of like

look round at me and then I can I put forward he was mad it was mad It was a great experience I mean I've always wanted to go to New York as well and I mean to do it

like for something like that it was brilliant sometimes in our business you know my side of the ropes your side of the rope you have to pinch yourself when things are happening like when I'm at ringside

it's a massive world everweight title fight and I'm three feet from the ring it's unbelievable When you're in New York, you're shaking hands with Devin Haney, you're taking pictures and Times Square, you've just been at a press conference inside the hard rock. It's all of you've got to pinch yourself, haven't you?

It is one of them things. I think it is, the thing is boxing moves so quick you don't get, you don't get a lot of time to take all these moments in, yeah, it's not too like afterwards and you look back, but you know, like, I mean, it was like the fight got made, and then he was like, right, you're flying to New York in today, and I remember thinking, like, what's happening? What luggage have I got?

Like, what's happening? And then now you think, like, now, We have such a long buildup, felt like a lifetime until we get this fire. You know, when you look back on it, because you've had, you know, your first few fights, all fights are prospects, you know, you're doing what you have to do.

But then you had, you know, the British title run, the Ryan Walls fight, the Mendi fight. Those are good fights. Those are fights that prepare a man for where you're going when you get to Saudi. I feel like doing them 12 rounders against them two tough entries. I mean, that Mendi fight was probably the turning point.

That was meant a lot to me that fight, because obviously I'm going to be a lot to me that fight, because obviously I watched him boxed Luke Campbell. Yeah, of course. I was first ever boxing show I ever went to. I watched Mendi fighting Campbell. First ever show is on the Joshua Perfect Guard at Wembley. Yeah.

In the pouring rain. Yeah, in the pouring in rain, yeah, and we went out there and watched him. And it was like, I sort of remember saying to the boys, I spard him, swarred him. No way. And then obviously, I never really followed boxing too much before him, but then it turned out that, obviously, Mindy beat him. Yeah.

I spard Luke Campbell, yeah, when I was like 19, they were rough rounds. And then I feel like they didn't get through that fight, flying colours, really, like, didn't drop around. Yeah, absolutely. It's a really good feel. Like, he was nice. He was good for me, I think.

And so with this kid, Mason, obviously he's never been beyond six rounds. You know, he's young, he's fast, he's this, that and the other, they're saying all sorts of things. Are you the sort of guy that studies your opponents, or do you leave that to Big Hour? Then you have a conference.

I leave that a big hour, and he's the brains, isn't he? Him and head. It has been brought to my attention, though, and don't tell this to the wrong way, Sam, but you do whack him a lot. I mean, I heard this, I thought it was a rumor,

but no, I saw you whack two or two times to the body. I think, after six years with him, Ronsey, I think you'll probably end up doing the same, right? Okay, yeah. You know, when I first started the camp, I walked through the door, and he was like, you disgust me.

And I'm thinking, like, hey, we're getting really for a world title fight, or is that his fear is to insult you in the shape. Insult you in the shape. He was hard of me. First few weeks, he was all, in it. He's gone back to his usual lovely self now, but then first weeks,

I'm thinking, Alan, mate, he's up. He's on me, he was. When do you think it was in your pro career You started to maybe think You know what I could end up getting a world title here I could win the British title here I could win a version of the European

I could get a world title here When do you think that was realistically And not fantasy land I'm talking about realistically Obviously like when you're talking about Everyone says it, doesn't they Yeah of course I always back myself confident

I was always confident I could always do really well But then like The European fight come off Like a few weeks We were already in camp And then they're like Do you want to fight for the European title

And it's like, all right. And then the WBO International, that got made Fight Week. Yeah. If you don't, I've never really, I don't know, I've never dealt with myself, but I've never ever pinpointed a feeling when I feel like, I feel like, once I got signed, and then obviously you do the 10 and 10 and you start winning that. And then people take note, it's more when other people take notes, so you think, oh, you know what, you're actually, you're making noise out there.

That was Sam knows talking to me in Bromley. And on Wednesday, in Saudi Arabia, well, I've made me Thursday, I don't know, I'm a bit like Sergio, I'm a bit confused about days and nights. It's all blends. It's all warm. It's all lovely. It's all fantastic. And there's a big fight on a Saturday.

That's all you need to know about a fight in Saudi Arabia. But I sat down with Abdullah Mason. Now let me just tell you first before we hear from Abdullah Mason. He's 21, but he looks younger. And that's not me making a cheap joke. He's got an innocence. You know, you heard Sergio talking there about his innocence. And when you sit with him,

it's somewhere tranquil where there's trees and a swimming pool and you can see a couple of stars, you forget you're talking to a kid who's just 24 hours, 40 hours away from me. I mean, the youngest current Mao world champion. This kid threw me. I mean, afterwards, we've got a producer. Paddy English is over at the F1.

We've got young Ryan with us. I checked his age. He's 16. It's okay. Turns out it's legal to travel. And he's good. He's really good. He's really good.

So I was a bit unnerved when it was finished. I could see Ryan looking at me because he don't often sit with a kid who's that young and that innocent. Anyway, here I am with Abdullah Mason. Right now I'm just focused, man. you know, the settings are amazing, and I'm grateful to be able to have a great, you know, environment while I'm, you know, on my business trip, you can say.

Your business trip, it is a business trip. Now, of course, one of the things that could happen or will happen if you win, when you win the world title, I'll say that because that's obviously the way you think, is you become, if I'm not mistaken, the youngest Mao world champion at the moment. Does that add a bit of pressure? Is that something that makes you smile? Both. You know, it's definitely something that makes me smile, and it's not something that everybody

can say that they have done or accomplished, you know, with, you know, the likes of those who have done it, like Mike Tyson and Wilfrido Benitez, you know, and among others. I'm just grateful to be here doing it with my team, so I'm enjoying a journey along the way. And your team is a team. It's a family team and then it's another team. I've seen the pictures, Mel, show me some of the pictures of you and your brothers. Now, I'm assuming that your brothers keep you in line to make sure your head doesn't get too big if you're going to be the world champion is that correct oh absolutely just going to keep you in line a little bit absolutely all the way around a bore you know inside of the gym outside of the gym in my free time you know in my in my diet you know everything that I do

you know they make sure I'm not excessive if it's something that isn't good for me and and they they advise me towards better and what is good for me so you know I'm grateful to have my brothers alongside me you know with this journey and the the Sam knows have you watched Sam notes his fights or do you leave that to your father and the rest of your team or do you just have a little look at some of the fights both you know i definitely make sure i have a good look at my opponent see what he does and um they definitely are the ones who uh dissect them and you know uh see what you know uh they they dig a little deeper yeah of course and so they're in charge to dig a little deeper yeah for sure so sam's um i spoke to sam about two weeks ago and he said he said he

I like Abdul, he's a good fire. He's a really good fire. And you seem to be really polite around him as well. Do you like that? There's no need for hostility, just two men are living? No, not for me. No need for hostility. This is something I've been doing since I was young.

So I'm not in it for a specific face or, you know, to punch on a specific somebody. But there's always going to be that opponent that crossed with me in the ring. And it happens to be Sam Nokes for this fight. So I'm definitely prepared. And I have been preparing for a while. to do what I got to do to come out on top against him. When you say preparing for a while,

can you remember how young you were when you realistically thought, you know what? I think I can win a world title one day. Can you remember how old you were? Yeah, I can remember how old I was. Probably where you were. Yeah, I remember exactly where I was. I remember a specific day in the gym

where I was having a hard workout session with my brothers. I was around 12, I would say going on 13. and we were just getting into kind of a phase where we started up in our work ethic and you started getting a little bit more serious and my brothers, yeah, started coming along with me and, you know, I first started going on to the Nationals. But a specific day in a gym where I thought, like, you know, if I stuck to this like this for however many years to come, I could be great at it, you know, I could see myself getting better day and day.

And were you at that point, you know, did you know, as you talked to, had you even moved around in the ring with guys that were fighting for world titles or were world champions no no at that point i was still very young i was an amateur yeah yeah around 12 or 13 so this was right when i first started winning my met my nationals and when when when once you got a bit older 15 16 17 17 can you remember who was the first top quality fighter whether it was a uh a world champion or a guy that fought for well time can you remember when it was that you know when you risked a little bit in sparring you know what i mean just yeah yeah yeah yeah because sam talks about with Shakir Stevenson earlier this year.

When was your moment like that? Yeah, funny enough, the first war champion I've shared the ring with, I was still amateur at 16 years old. It was Devin Haney, so he's also on this card. And he was a war champion at the time. I believe he was getting ready to face Urioka's Gamboa or something. Tough, tough, tough, tough Cuban. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, very tough Cuban.

And whenever I step in the ring with, you know, any champion besides, you know, hopefully myself this Saturday, most definitely, So what was that like? That's more. Because he would have been. Yeah, yeah, I was going to. He was a big champion's fight. He was still a big champion five years ago.

Yeah, no, he was. And what I was going to say was, whenever I step in the ring with anybody that's a champion, it's more of a solidification of where my skill set is. You know, when I was 16 years old, I could see where my skill set was heading, you know, especially with my father in my corner at the time. And we didn't do a full training cap with him,

but I could see, you know, my skill set. So you knew the distance between you and him and you knew how to get there. You knew how to close the ground. down. Yeah, absolutely. You could send, you know, okay, he's Devon Haney, he's X, Y and Z, but yeah, I could get there one day. Yeah, most definitely. That's good that, isn't it? Yeah, most definitely. So, with regards to this, you win the world title on Saturday, you're 21 years of age, you can move up in weight at some point when you grow, you still look like you're 13 years of age.

I'd want to see a passport. You know, I bet, honestly, if you, if you, because you still looks, you still got a baby face, you still got a lot of boy in you, in the sense, you're really relaxed and funny and smiling. Where'd you see yourself in two and three and four years time? If you allow yourself to dream, Abdul, where do you see yourself? I'm taking it one step in one day at a time. So wherever it is, I see myself at the top of my game. So whether that's the top at lightweight still or the top of the next weight class

and the world champion at the next weight class, you know, that would be amazing as well. But right now I'm taking it one step at a time, and we're starting it with this Saturday. Yeah, we'll start. Yeah, I got an appetite for smoke. being here, you know, we enjoy the journey along the way. And it is a journey, yeah? Yeah.

A 21-year-old kid, surrounded by your brother, surrounded by your father. In, in Rio, there's a call to prayer in the background. Yeah. You can't script this stuff, can't you? It's beautiful. You can't script this stuff. You can't script this stuff. You can't script this. You know, it's like a movie in real life.

And you're in the middle of it? Absolutely. You know, and I'm having a lot of fun. So Mason and notes, both unbeaten. And there's another thing, Sergio, and you'll understand this. I don't think they really know how to lose. I don't think they can see defeat inside their heads. You know what I mean.

Sometimes you're in a fight. Like you're coming up and you're in a fight with a, you know, it's a hard fight. You know you could lose. You want to win. You believe you can win, but you know you can lose. I'm not sure these two know they can lose. And you know what I mean by the difference between that? Every fighter has to come to the realization they have to face another undefeated fighter.

When it comes to the 11 and 0 mark, 15 and no mark, maybe 18 and no mark. And that's where they're at right now. Yeah, exactly. past that, then you're in the championship stage, then you're a top contender, then you get a chance at a world title. Another thing, fighters, they want to get to a world title without losing. They want that zero. They want to be introduced as the undefeated, you know, contender, and then, and the new champion. I did that. I did that. All right? I could tell you that everyone wants to do that. Noakes wants to do it. Mason wants to do it, but only one of them is going to get to do it. So now we're going to find out who's the next one in line.

Who's the one that deserves that championship strap? I love it, man. This is what boxing's about. And the only reason they're getting in the ring to do it to lose that zero is because they're getting paid multi-zeroes on their check in order to do that. 100%. If you look back over the WBO lightweight history, there are, and I'm not putting down any champions, they all deserve it.

There's an awful lot of fights that don't come anywhere close to this period. Listen, Sergio, that's it, man. I'm going to let you go. Oh, sorry, no, I'm not going to let you go. I knew what was coming. I knew what was coming. I thought Chris Mannix was the only one that asked me about this man. You nearly got out.

Okay. I only want a couple of minutes. I've got a brilliant piece I did if I say so. I know where you're going. Moses It's arm. So just give me a 90 seconds on your thoughts, two days after it was announced, of Anthony Joshua. It's hard to say. And Jake Paul, Miami, Miami, the 19th.

Give me your thoughts. I can't believe it because we've been asking this clown, because that's what he is. He's a clown that just invaded our sport to fight a real fighter. not only is he fighting a real fight he's fighting a former two-time heavyweight champion one of the biggest punchers in boxing a guy that's recognized around the world a guy that only lost to the best how the hell are you going to go from tank davis five foot five to six foot six guy that's going to be 50 pounds plus and a monster jake paul's going to get killed he's going to make a lot of money to get killed but now everyone needs to understand and appreciate and respect his hustle his promotional value that he brings to the table and the cohenes that he has to faces man and just just to confirm so before i let you go and we're here for moses itama um this is not a pantomime staged exhibition because i know a j well he hasn't got that in him he hasn't got that let's take this out he hasn't got a choreograph spark in him this is not rocking apollo creed in those shots where they spent hours and hours perfected it this is real and this is

and this is in julius caesar chavez junior that's had no issues outside the ring that doesn't take this serious that's pretty much a clown himself you know Chavez Jr. disappointed a lot of people with his bad habits and the fact that he doesn't try Anthony Joshua has been through the mud he's been criticized his heart has been questioned his chin has been questioned but against heavyweight fighters if he gets cracked by Jake Paul that's going to that's going to ruin the legacy that he built from the gold medal to winning the titles coming back to the world to losing to a circus act so now Joshua's going to knock this guy's block off oh you know what so it's been an absolute pleasure talking, I'm going to let you go, but before you go, and you can just have a little listen to this,

when the news was announced on Monday of this week, I was in Manchester to start the pitch, the South, for the fight that's going to be on his own, Jermaine Franklin, against Moses Itama. And so I was with Moses when my phone pinged. So I said, hold on a second, Moses. I had a look at it. And he said, what's that, what's that by and see? I said, I shook my head. I said, it's been made. He said, what's been made? I said, AJ's going to fight Jake Paul. And he went, oh, man, hold it. Turn my mic on.

This is Moses Atama reacting basically live to what he felt, genuinely felt, when it was officially announced Jake Paul and AJ. Sergio, thank you. Have a listen to this. You know, like, you've got to congratulate Jake Paul because he's done very well, make a lot of money at the sport, but he needs to fire if he.

people from his team because like if I was his brother I'll be I'll be like worrying for his um for his health like I don't think people just feel like they could just come in boxing and just just take over and like I believe Anthony Joshua saved boxing once already like not knocking out on Garnu but it's just the fact that he just done it so like the knockout was disturbing to be honest well I told you what AJ told me how he measured the steps and he just did it exactly And like, that's Francis and Garnau. Seven inches taller, five stone heavier than Jake Paul.

They need to get that medical ready, man. They need to make the medical ready because it's dangerous. And even if it was in 12-ounce gloves, 14-ounce gloves, it wouldn't, well, I'm not putting words. I don't think it makes that much difference. I've knocked people out with 20-ounce gloves in Headguard, so I don't think 12-ounce gloves or 14-ounce gloves or even 15, 16, whatever.

I don't even think. Anthony Josh has knocked people out in 22 out of his gloves. Head guards, everything. And they're heavyweights. Jake Paul's not a heavyweight. So I just think he's just worried. I'm seriously worried for Jake Paul, if I'll be honest. That was Moses Itama.

He's not joking. He means it. I thought Sergio was absolutely fantastic. I mean, I've done stuff with him before, but I thought he was brilliant tonight. And we do sometimes forget, you know, that when he won contender, maybe it's because he was on TV, people maybe don't give him the credit he deserves.

But he won the WBC Super World Wide Light Middleweight title by beating Vernon Forest. A few years later, a good few years later, he lost a couple of World Title fights to Daniel Jacobs up at Middleweight. Don't worry. Sergei Moore could fight, don't worry. And what's more? He's a top, as we say, he's a top banana, a top fella.

Now, that's the week. We will have live coverage through the night from Saudi Arabia. I'll be giving you the details of that in over the next 24 hours. We will be on 5 live and we will be on BBC Sounds through the night for the four world title fights. And they are quality world title fights, exceptional world title fights. David Benavid is unbeaten against Anthony Yard, WBC Light Heavyweight. WBO World to Wait, Brian Norman against Devonhani, and that's turning nasty. WBO lightweight vacant.

You heard from the pair of them. Abdelah Mason and Sam Nose and the WBC, WBA, IBC, and Ringbelt, Super Flyweight Championship of the World. Barry Jones' favourite fighter, Ban Rodriguez and Fernando Martinez of Argentina. Those are the fights. Now before I say goodnight here from Riyadh and wander off into the dark and neon where there's just beams, stars and neon. That seems to be the entire picture.

There's almost a full moon when we come, and there's not one yet. Maybe it'll be one in a couple of days. Some sad news to report the death of Mark Kela, a golden boy, as they call him. The West Ham amateur boxing club won the ABA title in 1980. 48 fights as a professional. Lost 7, 140, 34 by stoppage. Won the British title back in 19. I think it was about 1983 when he stopped Roy Gumbs.

Roy Gumbs was a hard and a good fighter. Football World Title once in Korea Roy Gumbs. Not many people know that. After that, Mark's career was up and down, but the one thing that never, ever, ever faltered was his appeal. Nine of his first ten fights were at the Royal Alba Hall in Wembley, and really, he was the attraction.

He sold tickets throughout his career. He was involved in, obviously, the infamous British title eliminator against Earl Christie in 1985 at Wembley, which is a story. We could do a whole pod on that story, and, you know, one day we might. At the end of the career, There were more downs than up, so Mark, let's not mince around.

He settled a lawsuit with Terry Lawless, his trainer and manager. That was settled in 1997, settled out of call. He got a cash settlement and Terry paid costs. So Mark Kela has died age 64. Sounds a bit crass to say, we're back tomorrow with Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren, but we are back tomorrow with Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren. And more talk about the fights this weekend. Plus, of course, Eddie Hearn is going to throw a little bit.

bit more light on Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua on December the 19th. I'm Steve Buntz back in re-aird and this is Five Live boxing. This winter, cricket's oldest rivalry is reignited and Australia do battle to compete for the ashes. Here live ball-by-ball commentary on Five Sports Extra and get analysis and reaction of every day's play with the Test Match Special podcast. The Stops out of the ground. Test match special at the Ashes. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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