5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - BONUS POD: Groves on retirement, Froch and taking control

Episode Date: May 14, 2019

Former super middleweight world champion George Groves reflects on the end of his career, his two massive fights against Carl Froch, and how he tried to take control of his career.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Let's get ready to rumble! Five Live Boxing. Hello and welcome to this bonus edition of the Five Live Boxing podcast with Costello on Bunce. On Monday, we put up our podcast with George Groves, focusing on the upcoming fights for Billy Joe Saunders, Josh Taylor and Deontay Wilder. And that's still available to download now. But what you're about to hear is our in-depth conversation with George. focusing on his career, from the defeats to Carl Frotch,

finally winning a world title at the fourth attempt and much more. But we started off by talking about his approach to training and how much of a grind that had become by the end of his career. You have to, it's a real fine balance between what your body, what your body needs for a particular fight and what your body's kind of capable of. So sometimes you do, you are that little bit more switched on. physically you don't train any harder for a particular fight than any other one because you know that that makes no sense every fight is important you need to be prepared and

overtraining because it's a bigger fight can be detrimental to your performance but the the energy it takes to be switched on mentally for a particular fight so for example when I started working with Shane we sort of move through the levels of our position so I'd come off the loss the third world title loss to battlejack and come in at you you know, a lower level. It was headlined the show at the copper box, you know, against the sort of, you know, the hand-bicked opponent, if you will, you know, in January straight after Christmas.

So your mind frame is not as switched on as it would be for your fourth world trial attempt against Fed or Chudenev. But I had a steady progression. I'd sort of, I'd box Martin Murray in what was built as a 50-50. So that adds the pressure, you know, that adds that ingredient that means you have to be switched on. You know, I didn't feel it was a 50-50, but psychologically that will give your opponent, you know, an edge. It will give him a boost.

It will give him, you know, a step up in training and whatever that may be and come fight night. A particular for me was against Chris Ruben Jr. I felt it was going to be such a one-sided fight. But because everyone had him as a heavy favorite, I didn't want to make any mistakes whatsoever. So on the fight night, you're that much more switched on. You know, you're not going, it wasn't necessarily going for. the knockout, you know, I just wanted to be a clean and clinical performance, and that's what I've realised, you know, as time goes on, the amount of training that goes into it, you know,

if you have a break or a low and you pile on the way, or you usually just where your mind switches off and you sort of, I could, I could feel myself becoming more of a civilian, I used to say, you know, less of an athlete, more of a normal average Joe, you know, where I never really put on that much weight, but the muscle used to disappear, you know, it's like I've been on, you know, white rice diet and that was it but I was eating plenty of other rubbish as well so it made no sense but keep yourself in check

keep yourself fit and healthy and stay switched trying to motivated and that was the easiest way through you know when something bad did come along like for me the two bad things at the end of my career was dislocating a shoulder which just sent my body into a real weird state that I'd never

experienced before so Eubank Jr. And then we had the final so we had the stress of trying to fit for a final. There was a lot of money involved. There was the ring magazine title involved. And as that saves my career, I thought I'd achieved everything I wanted to achieve. I'd sort of, I'd, I'd tried to, um, put as much emphasis on, on winning this, this new tournament, this tournament that was going to be the new making of boxing. And that was, that was now my new goal, because for so long it was just to become a world champion. When I was a kid, I wanted everything. But by, by the time I actually, won that world title, it was like, right, how do I, how do I create something that doesn't mean

everything is downhill from here? So, you know, the price money was very, very alluring for that tournament. The level of opposition, I believe that all the title's going to go in there. Unfortunately, none did, only mine. But, you know, in the final, which I was desperate to attend to be part of, to win, was the ring magazine belt. It would be a win over Callum Smith, who everyone had to, sort of linked me with for years. You know, the fight that's in me that will always be in me is that I just didn't want anyone else to win it

at that point. I was like, right, it's got to be me. If it's not me, no one's winning it. Little, some, some, some, some, some, some, you know, as I say, when it comes down, the fun element, but the stress element of trying to navigate the past of not just myself, but the other people around me to

manipulate the system so that I would feature in that final because when I, when I dislocating my shoulder, I was in hospital getting it popped back in on fight night and at the same time, Cala Salon's dancing around in the after party having a discussion with Dean Baker, who takes care of my commercial deals and Cala's going, we're postponing three weeks and Dean went, come on,

he's just discreet his shoulder in a massive pay-per-view event. The biggest success you've had in this tournament, you know he's big he's put your tournament on the map in the UK now you can't kick him out the final uh well I can't really go past past June he's just dislocated his shoulder you can't keep out of the final and we kind of knew that but we we we ran with it you know obviously

Caller was under some other pressures from from above you know at times I felt sorry for him because he was kind of stuck in the middle he had to he'd immediate in between everyone and probably no one trusted him at that point because the people above him didn't trust him, you know, because it's boxing. If you're not from boxing, then you trust no one. And I didn't trust

them because they were brand new to boxing, so they're going to make the wrong decision. And so yeah. So at that point going into, let's say two months out of that final fight, the Callum Smith fight, you weren't switched on in simple terms, or you were struggling to get switched on, even allowing for the dislocated shoulder. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it was a brand new concept to me in that, you know, I'd had plenty of injuries before, but none that required this much rehabilitation work. And no one really knew that the timeframe would be to come back. We would, the most common sport that suffered this injury was rugby.

Probably there's loads of rugby players out there, I mean, their shoulders were in vulnerable positions where they were clashing into each other and they are tough. rough men. So some of them would be back playing if they really need them to be back playing within four months. So we try to work off that time frame. But with hindsight, realizing that rugby and boxing are totally

different. The amount of shoulder-specific work needed for boxing is far great and then rugby as well as it's not a team game. So you can't sort of just... Can't hide. No. So it was a real slog. I had to find time in my

camp for the rehab sessions, which were harder than the training sessions because not only is it physically hard it's mentally hard it's my shoulder my brain wasn't telling sending the signals from my shoulder no more those nerves were dead they were blocked

I don't know how it worked so they got regrow or then you know just literally just wake them up so he was neurily tax him you'd finish this session and you'd be shattered you wanted to go to bed but that was the middle day session where I'd usually do a morning and an evening session and now I have three sessions a day

it was tough so sometimes to find the balance I'd have to cut out the evening session which was usually a conditioning session which helped with my weight so weight was a struggle this time round as well as we would we usually punch five times a week but you know we punched three times a week which had probably had a massive effect the sparring was cut there was lots of things that weren't right but we no excuses we believe we were good enough and the rewards were great enough for the risk, you know. So going to Saudi Arabia was an ideal, you know, that was a big stressful situation to go with as well. We didn't know what to expect. We didn't know what we were allowed to take, you know, what our reception would be there. Luckily for me,

chap Fari, who worked at Osmond, has a really good friend who owns a hotel in Saudi Arabia, so he took care of us. We ended up having a wonderful time once we were there until I boxed. You know, my wife couldn't go. You know, that was, you know, and we had no information from the, from the tournaments. It was like, can, can women come? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But can they?

Can they come to the arena? Yeah, they have a women section. So my wife, Sophie sits ringside. Can she sit ringside? Of course you can, your main event. But this is not boxing. This is law. This is their law.

Like, will this happen? And we never got any answers back. So I left, I left Sophie at home. She'd like give birth to our second child. Albi was only three, four months old. So she probably would have stayed at home anyway. Obviously, if it was in the O2 or Manchester, then we could have all travelled up at a wonderful time

and she would have got covered and she could have come to the fight. So that was the first fight she ever missed, which was probably a sign, probably. Going back to the night that you won the title, George, against Tudinoff, that we've heard about earlier on. So you've come through two high-profile defeats against Karl Froch. He lost against

Badu Jack. I remember an interview with George Forma when he lost the Rumble in the jungle against Muhammad Ali and he said not only did he lose the world heavyweight title he said he lost something as a man. If you hadn't won that night against Chudanof, would there have been something missing about you

more than George Groves, the boxer? Do you see what I mean? How important was that to you as a man as well as a boxer? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Because boxing's your life there's no differentiation. There's the same thing because it's what you know, it's what you are, it's how you define yourself, is how everyone else defines you, you know, George, he's a boxer, George, the Boxer, that's how people relate to you. And I couldn't have come again. I wouldn't, it wouldn't, I just couldn't

have come again. I'd had enough, that would have been me. And I would have left the sport unfulfilled. I'd been bitter. I'd been, I'd been, I'd been, I'd been, everyone who they went on to win a world title who I felt was beneath me, would bother me. And I don't really shy away from that. I think that that's who I am and that's what character are. You almost like become a bit of a hater. But it's just because you want to be the number one, that you want to be the best, that you want to eclipse anyone else's achievements.

You know, as time goes on and you grow up a bit, you realize that's not quite capable. You're not, you know, you're going to suffer losses. You're going to get all the opportunities. you're not going to get all the fame and acclaim, which is part of the ass with the business. But to leave the sport and not become a world champion, I think it took a lot of therapy, I suppose, after that, to get over that because I needed that.

I certainly definitely needed that. And at that point, they become the sole focus. Talk about when you start a career, you're seven years old, your dream becoming a world champion. You just assume that the world champion means you're going to have a big house, a big car, a private jet, you know, I don't know. But you start growing up, you realise it might not be the truth. So then your priorities might change, you know.

What would you pick the world title or, you know, a flash car? But then it came full circle where it was like, right at the end, it was like, yeah, okay, I had nice things, I'd earned money, I'd been in high-profile fights and all these things, but I wasn't interested in being famous. I wasn't interested in anyone pat me on the back or. or anything like that, I just wanted to become world champion, just so that my name could go down as a world champion, as well as all the other Great British fighters that had so before. Well, it's the three world title defeats, George,

that they were more than just defeats. I know that all fighters suffer in defeat, but you really seem to suffer. I don't, I mean, we talked about it on the pod before. I don't know if I know anyone who loses as bad as you. I don't mean a bad loser. I don't mean you were a bad loser I mean that

We talked about it at length We've done it on air loads of times I don't know anybody Who just falls into such a darkness After defeat As you do The Badu Jack one I thought we'd lost you, period

I mean I really did And then the two Frotch ones I really don't It was dreadful of watchmate from the outside I don't like losing You know That's clear Very best not to

and in all honesty I think you know obviously loads of fights get beat but sometimes they're sent and the part of them knows they're going to get beat

but I never ever thought I was ever going to get beat so that's probably why I get you know that comes across and that's what's portrayed and you know

obviously the first fight where I lost no one really gave me a hope in hell before the fight but you know it stopped early and everyone thought you know I was I was

winning the fight and everyone thought I should win And then by the time they come around for the rematch, there was a big chunk of people out there that were believing that, you know, I was going to go out and do it. And I was leading that campaign. I believe that, you know, I'm world champion. I just haven't received the belt yet, haven't got the win.

Lost in spectacular fashion. You know, that's, and that was the first time my life, it was, oh, it's not who wants it most. You know, I'd learnt that message from fighting Kenny Anderson, climbing off the floor and digging deep and getting the wind. It's like, oh, no, I wanted it more. I know I was going to take this away from me. and then you fast forward to the Wembley Stadium

and I just get hit and I try and get up I don't watch it often but when I see the highlights like I'm down but I'm out you know the second I wake up I'm back on my feet I'm ready to go but it's too late and it's um that was that was a tough lesson to learn

in boxing that it don't matter how much you want it how well you prepare or whatnot you know it can take a split second and sometimes it just, it just happens. And after that fight, you know, I remember figuring out,

I can, I can sort of lose gracefully and, you know, sort of save some, um, you know, public ridicule and,

you know, just some, just some, get some good, get some good press out of it. Or I could just be who I am and just speak and just say, I remember,

I remember, I remember, I remember, I remember, know what interview, but I remember thinking, are you going to do it or you're not? Ah, you're going to do it, just do it. I say, I still think I'm better than cold front.

And I'm going to get so much thinking of this. He just knocked you out. People are living. Absolutely living at that. And I said, well, I still think now. I still think I'm still thinking now, you know. I say, he got me with that punch, but, you know, and I was, I was resolute at the time, you know,

I was, I was in charge of my own destiny. That was, that was the thing. So you couldn't, you know, you couldn't admit to any fault. But obviously in hindsight, I can look back and say, I made mistakes in both fights. Neither fight was perfect. You know, the first fight, I just went head happy,

right hand on the button every time, and I punched him numb. Like, people scratched their head. I don't understand boxing. I mean, some people in boxing scratch the head. I mean, some people in boxing scratch the head. minishes and he'd just become accustomed to those right hands but and look at the finish against Fedot-Tudnov where I'd been through that I'd learn I'd better coaching my going to give me better

advice prepared now you know it was head body left hook right hand I'd hit with every shot in the book I remember doing that I'm thinking at the time thinking you know that that is how you get rid of fighters like you know at the top level that's how you get rid of fighters and you know I think I feel like the tactics were all wrong for the second fight and the thing that hit me up the most is because I went with the premise that people believe that I had poor conditioning that like I wasn't fit and therefore I changed my training I did more endurance work I threw more punches but the game plan was to start slow and build into that fight so the first half of the fight just breeze through and then put your foot down for the second half but the

truth is that I should have started that second fight from where the first fight left off it should come I took centre of ring and just hit him with the hardest shot I can throw. And Cole's not elusive. You know, you can hit him. That's the greatest thing. The problem you have is that you hit him and he punches back. You know, he just walks through punches. You know, it's a phenomenon maybe.

I don't know. So he, and he's exceptionally well at that style of fighting. So part of me, like with reflection, things, did I, did I bottle it? Did I bottle it because I thought I didn't have the condition? Did I bottled the actual fight? was I trying to be just too clever and I think that's probably what it was

at that point I just thought I'm clever enough I'm gonna be clever for everyone I'm gonna pull in strings I'm gonna bamboozle with cold froch into sports therapy you've seen a sports psychologist I saw that as a win

like truth is he got the win because that was the best thing for him to do and it had a positive effect on the fight I was trying to pull any any hurt strings because I'll you know like every other fighter

who's trying to go out there and make something himself they've all tried to take Eddie down no one succeeded he's really good

David and A had a little go recently he failed abysmally so at that point I remember coming out for the for the way in

for the rematch and I think I weighed in first the challenger and it got a big cheer and then a few booze and then Frotch got on and he got more booze and I thought

oh that's great and then Eddie came out and he got the most booze I thought and then I thought I don't know if that's good or not is that mean everyone's just getting pooed

like what's going on so at that point I took that as a win I thought oh here we go like I'm upset in everyone and we didn't and really as time goes on

you realise that winning matters that'll be my advice to any young fighter out there just win like don't worry about let other people control and have fun when you can

but just make sure you win don't sacrifice your chance of winning for anything else apart from. If you win, then you can create your own history after that. It's fascinating what you say there, though, George, about, you know, we as broadcasters interview you on the ring apron or maybe in the dressing room afterwards, but then there's a cutoff.

You have to take all of those thoughts that are wrestling around in your head, the positive against the negative. You're talking there about, did I bottle the fight and stuff? You know, these are questions that boxes are really scared to ask themselves. Yeah. I assume so. Like, you know, there's a fine line whether you should analyse your performances

but you don't want to overanalyze them either. You need to find people who you can be around who you trust their opinion. And sometimes they're the people that are not necessarily from boxing. You know, sometimes, I'm trying to think of an example. Sometimes I talk to someone and I think you don't know nothing about boxing.

I won't even bother listening to your opinion. But actually, they've got, they've got that different perspective. Used to be my father-in-law, actually. I can't think of an example of him, and my wife won't mind me saying, because everything he says is just off the cuff. It doesn't matter what you're going to say.

You think, how do you conclude that? Because people outside of boxing look at things a different way. You think, okay, so that's what you took away from it, because I didn't see that, because I was wrapped up, I was in the bubble, you know? And he could be anything to say, oh, you looked a bit slow. I remember my wife telling me after,

and Dennis Douglin fight there. She probably really wanted to say, why are you so slow now? But she knew I wasn't happy with a performance. I tried to be clever and book like apartment suites in Liverpool that week so that we had a bit of space for each other. But they were abysmal. I can't remember where they were.

It was really rough. Rope, you know, apartment, a hotel thing that I sort of booked. I was in this bed and I think, I just want to go home. This is awful. And then she wouldn't have that discussion. I thought, oh, all right, let's go. And then I was just very brilliant,

because she's probably one person who I probably listen to more than anyone else. You know, she's my therapist, the person who I can debate and talk things through with and come to a logical conclusion always. And it's like, right, yeah. I mean, it was like, well, particularly in the Dennis Douglas-Duglin fight,

the thing that Paddy Fitzpatrick, wanted me to like double jab over, sort of over, over the Southpour. And the kid was just hitting me with check right hooks all night long. And I was like, it's because my double jab is so slow. Like, I've got one of the best jabs in the world. Like, so I stopped doing the double jab and I'm doing what I want. And I stopped him around and a half later.

But I'm thinking, right, you went through that phase of delegating. You know, because originally, you know for the first one you decided i'm gonna go it alone i'm gonna do what i want you designed all my own programs i said right i had my my strength coach on my conditioning coach i brought in the boxing coach um they were just there to nudge me in the right direction you know but i i told them what times we train when we show up how many how many sessions we were going to do what day's going to involve for and do this what the media stuff is and i and i became sort of like my own manager and i managed a lot of the training you know i didn't come up with all of it you know

It's not like I'm trying to take credit for it, but I just needed that bit of control because I'd lost trust, really. I sort of fell out with the Haymaker's stable. I didn't really have any trust in anyone else. These people that I was working with, none of them had experience at the elite level working for fighters. So if I'm going to go alone, I'll just stick what I know.

Lost the first fight, listen to the people saying maybe it was conditioning that cost me to fight. So I started to delegate a bit more. I let the conditioning coach take over a few. few more conditioning sessions

and you know I listened to Paddy a bit more and didn't really factor in that not

everyone is going to deal with these momentous occasions the same you know Paddy was

an amateur coach from Swindon you know and after one after working with a pro

fighter for one fight for one fight he's now going in with the favourite for a

fighter who's fighting at Wembley stadium you know and the spotlight's on him and how's he going to cope with that?

You know, I never ever asked him, is he okay? How you doing? What you're thinking? Probably so scared of the answer. But by the time, so four fights in with Paddy after Dennis Tuglin movie, right, I'm not really so sure about this anymore. I don't want to change Trader again before a world title fight

because I didn't know when this badu Jack fight was going to come. You know, it was imminent, but he ended up not being for another 10 months. So that was 10 months. kind of treading water where I was just keeping fit. The stuff that I could control, like weight making, it made me feel comfortable. Like, right, I'm in a good shape because my weight's light.

But come to think about it, they pushed the flight back. I was supposed to headline with Badu Jack at the Cosmopolitan in Vegas, and they pushed it back to the Mayweather Undercard. We found out the day we were flying to America. So he's like, well, do I cancel my flight? So I'd just go and spend an extended time out there. We wanted to go out there and be.

the jet lag so we went out there early, he was out there seven and a half weeks before the fight, and in all honesty, it was too long. I was probably fit to fight the day I went, so that seven extra weeks I over-trained. I blamed it all on altitude at the time. We've stayed in Big Bear working out of Able Sanchez's gym, and the sessions were flat.

My times weren't good in the sprints and stuff like this, and sparring was no good, and I was blaming the altitude. But really, I was bringing in other sparring partners, and they were doing fine. you know like these kids weren't from the mountains you know uh so i should you know at that point you're just ignorant because i was so desperate so desperate to an oil title and um but you make your if you're going if you want to leave from the front and you have to hold your hands up when you

make the mistakes um combadu jack um again a fight that i believe that i should win and it was close but i didn't do enough to beat the champion you know away from home you know, it's just how it is. In the corner I was being told I was winning the rounds. And that was the thing that hurt the most because for a man that I kind of lost a bit of faith in, well, I lost total faith in, I wasn't listening to him anymore, doing my own thing.

But because he was telling me what I wanted to hear at that precise moment when I needed to hear it, I went with it. At the end of the fight, Bell goes, I lift my arm, bad he left his arm, I thought, I'm just how many Americans do. Turn to my family. at the front row

and I can tell my their face is like oh no this is what what did I miss you know it was like this is close

and that to me this is close means you ain't getting it I was like right and it was a split

so it was close than I thought it was gonna be but I think when the last card was read out he was about four or five

points in the difference I thought well that ain't me I can't do any media right now I've got to go I'm gonna say something I regret

because up until then it had been a performance you know, everything in a performance. I was exhausted from that because you, you know, I try and be conscious. I don't want to, you know, you try and be honest, insightful,

but you're not going to give away everything. You're going to tell people what they want to hear to a certain element. And that goes in the build-up to a fight and immediately after a fight. So I can't sit down at the end of that first rock fruct friday and go, you know, start swearing and saying, I'm going to chin this keys,

This is corrupt. Which is what's going through my mind, I think, I need to play this sensibly because I'll probably need a favour from the British border control later and who knows, Howard Foster might be refereeing the rematch. It's just,

let's try and work on, you know, consolidating my position to guarantee me a rematch. Public opinion on my side will help, you know, because people kind of like it

when people get, you know, when they get tucked up, you know. So, yeah. Thanks to George Groves and to you for listening to this bonus episode of the Five Live Boxing podcast with Costello Unbunz. Our preview of this weekend's action, including Billy Joe Saunders against Sheffat Isoufi, a fight you can hear live on BBC Five Live, is available now on the Costello and Bunce podcast feed. We'll be back next Monday.

Thanks for listening. Ready to rumble! 5 live boxing.