5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Boxing in Eddie Hearn's back garden; and Adam Booth on training and getting destroyed by Don King

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

After Eddie Hearn revealed he's planning to put on fights in his back garden, are we a step closer to the return of professional boxing? Mike and Steve debate the logistical issues with trainer Adam Booth, as well as looking at the path Booth took becoming a world title-winning trainer.

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as boxing's resumption appears to be creeping ever closer, if still a couple of months away. and in these continuing times of lockdown, it's some time since we've spoken at length to a trainer. So today we're joined by one of the very best in Adam Booth, who's with us very shortly. But Steve, while I've been away, there's been a quite staggering response

to the first two episodes of our greatest fight series. Last week it was Tyson against Spinks, the week before, Sugar Ray Leonard against Tommy Hearns, and it's gone down pretty well. I don't know about you, Mike. I've never, we've never had a reaction like that. We've had some reactions like that after, say, Joshua, after we were in a TikTok diner, Joshua and Ruiz,

we've got that same kind of reaction because people could hear the rawness in our voice. But I think it's been absolutely fantastic. And people have loved it. And what they're doing is they're cherishing it. People are literally like a favourite book. They're putting it somewhere special. That's not vanished inside your phone.

That's been stored. I love that. Another tweet, Steve, from Ian Riley, he said, sometimes we forget how brave Leonard was because of all the skill that he had. I thought that was a really good point. We'll be visiting more of your emails and iTunes reviews later on. And this week, this Thursday on the Greatest Fight series,

it's Ricky Hatton and the night he beat Costa Zoo in Manchester back in June 2005. Another very special episode. And just before we move on, Steve, and we're going to talk about Eddie Hearn's plans to stage shows in the grounds of his former family mansion at Brentwood, which is now the headquarters of Matchroom Sport. Just briefly, you were talking last week with Darren Fletcher, who stood in for me last week. about my first ever experience of spaghetti bollogneyes.

Well, Darren came back and said, Michael Owen has never drunk tea or coffee. Nor have I. I mean, you've travelled the world with me. You've never, ever heard me order a cup of tea or a cup of coffee. So I'm in Michael Owen land as well.

Have you had jam? And somebody described me as a weirdo. Well, add that to it. What have you called me now? Have you had jam? Have you ever had jam? Have you ever had jam? Thank you for that.

Because that was also on one of those business. are les. No, no, Fletch was quite disturbed with the Spag-Bog thing, Mike. I've got to tell you. Fletch had a field day last week. He absolutely loved it. He was disappointed at the pod only lasted 50 minutes. I think he wanted to do about six hours. He was just warming up. He had all these facts and stats.

He was, he absolutely loved it. Too smooth for my liking. We're going to hear shortly, Steve, from Eddie Hearn and of course, Adam Booth at length. But Eddie's been talking to the BBC and elsewhere in the last few days about the plans he's got to stage fights in the grounds of the headquarters of matchroom sports. Brentwood in Essex, he's been talking in detail about the issues around testing and the isolation of the fighters and everyone involved with the contest,

about distancing measures, about the limited number of personnel who will be allowed into the grounds of the mansion and at ringside on fight night, talking initially about domestic contests only, hopefully moving on towards pay-per-view, and the night when Dillian White will take on Alexander Pavekine, so he hopes on a pay-per-view night, and that will involve the logistics of getting an international fighter into this country.

But generally, what did you make of what he had to say and the plans, Steve? Because it's a case of Eddie, not for the first time, getting on the front foot. And Frank Warren was saying in boxing news just a couple of weeks ago, how if other sports are starting to get back, and over the weekend we've seen the German Bundesliga still waiting for news on the Premier League here, but there was a charity golf event in the United States in Florida

on Sunday evening as well. And Frank was making the point that when sports are starting to come back, it's absolutely key that boxing remains relevant. Yeah, the boxing remains part of it. Well, a couple of things. First of all, Mike, Eddie's been talking about this marquee or this canopyed arena area in his garden for a long time. In fact, he's thought about it pre-lockdown.

It's been something that he's, you know, I remember him talking about it 10 years ago or 11 years ago. What's interesting, Mike, is there was a line in the consultation document that the British Boxing Border Control sent to their license holders a couple of weeks ago. And it talked about a purpose-built arena. So that seemed to me to be sensible because, you know, instead of having boxing behind closed doors at York Hall, which would take an awful amount of cleaning,

I suppose, just build an arena or a temporary completely 100% sterile area that you're sterile to start with. So you just have to clean it as opposed to, massive sterilising operation. The logistics all work. Everything that points to building a marquee, building a tented area, providing you've got the money and the space. All of those things work.

It's as simple as that. And just as a word of warning for boxing needing to compete and come back at the same time as other sports, that will work the first time. For instance, during your absence, the UFC had the first of a series of shows in Florida. And it was phenomenal to coverage, Mike, BT, I'm reliably told, got decent figures through the night. It was everywhere. It was leading stories. You turned on your laptop. It was this. And every single outlet covered it. And the guy that won the main

event, I can't even pronounce his name. It's G-O-E-T-H-J-E. I don't even know where he's from. He won. Apparently, it was a brutal main event. It was an interim title because the real champion couldn't leave Russia. And part of that was that you couldn't travel. Part of it was because his dad and his coaches suffered a heart attack and was rushed to hospital, so he wouldn't have been out of leave anyway. So this interim title took place, and it got unbelievable coverage. It was fantastic. It was blanket coverage, as we used to say, wall-to-wall coverage, back-page stories everywhere, and, of course, it was a real boost for the UFC. And then the American president thanked Dana White, the guy that runs the UFC, so it got lots of coverage. That was an interim title fight.

And I'm reliably told by people I know in the MMA business that most of the undercard was good. It was decent, 50-50 fights. Lots of season guys, some big UFC names were taking part. Well, that's not really what we're talking about here with boxing. And as much as it will be newsworthy, the first show, I'm not quite sure that five or six, five contests, the ball are saying, fights for, you know, not for titles, although that's up for discussion, as Robert Smith admitted.

The first show won't have title fights. I'm not sure that four, six-rounders or even four or five, eight-rounders, under the founders involving what we euphemistically term 50-50 fights would get the same amount of coverage, Mike. I'm not so sure. And I'm basing that on the fact that that event was rare, it was unique, but it was also a good show as opposed to going under the radar, which I would still argue a five-bout show will do. Now, the two promoters involved in getting fights on behind closed doors, and let's get it right.

There's only two involved. Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren. I'm sure would passionately disagree with me. Well, here's what Eddie Hearn had to say talking to the BBC over the weekend, adding some details to his plans. I think at first, when we talked about fighters fighting behind closed doors, the reaction was, oh, you know, I might wait and now they realize that waiting might be 2021. So they've got to get their heads around this.

Now they've seen the plans of what we're doing, the response is very different. Wow, put me down for that. Now, this looks unbelievable. So that's the difference between what we're trying to create and that Stark Studio with no visual impact, with no buzz, with no energy, with no drama. That's what we don't want. We want to bring the fans, not just great fights, but also a setting for a period of time. This will go down in history, you know, and that's what we want to do. I don't want to just say we bought boxing back in studio.

I want to say, do you remember when we bought boxing back at the headquarters and we staged world championship fights here? that's legacy stuff and this is a moment in the sport that will never be forgotten and we want to be at the absolute busy point of that we want to make sure that we are leading away to bring this great sport back well we can put a lot of plans in place to potentially have fight nights it's absolutely critical that boxers get to spa so with social distancing rules and gym closures and everything your plans in some ways do they hinge on those fight nights? as being able to get back in the gym. Yeah, I think that's one of the most difficult things.

And that's why I haven't rushed back. Because the fighters need to prepare. Most people that I'm speaking to who train in private gyms will resume training in the next week or two. Okay, and it will be staggered. I spoke to Tony Sims this morning. He's also getting all these fighters antibody tests as well to see if they've had it.

There were fighters. Fighters, as you know, they get it all the time. You know, when you're training in that kind of environment, there's bugs going around and quite a few fighters in January and February had been ill with these kind of symptoms

so the first thing we want to establish is have you already had it and those antibody tests will be taking place now then the fighters will be coming back slowly just with one individual at a time sparring will probably resume in two or three weeks but there's obstacles to overcome your preparation as a fighter probably won't be as good

as it would have been before accept it, be the best you can be, be ready, and take your opportunity. So, you know, preparation is important, but sometimes it can't be perfect. So this is where we're up. And it's not a case of, if you don't fight, go away. It's just a case of who's ready? Who wants to fight a match and fight you? And, you know, we can see all the hands going up now.

Okay, you are going to fight you. Are you in? Yeah, I'm in. Okay. You, do you want to fight? Oh, I'm not sure. No problem. We'll see you later in the year.

You know, we need to get, when we go back to Dana White, we need to get a little bit stricter now, you know, like Dana does, and make sure that fighters are in real fights. You know, a lot of promoters now, I hear, oh, we've got to bring Persis down, this is the chance. You know, purses have got out, get out of control. I'd rather kick the purses the same. Just make the real fights.

You know, and I think that's a strategy moving forward. Eddie Hearn, talking there to BBC Sports, Luke Reddy, and we're joined Steve now by Adam Booth. Adam, great to have you with us. It's been a long time since we spoke. Long time. are you, fellas? Fantastic. Yeah, all good.

Adam, we're going to talk at length about your life and times in boxing, but just listening there to Eddie Hearn, and it's been the talk of the town about boxing happening behind closed doors. Given that you've been involved in some of the biggest nights in British boxing over the last 15 years, can this work? Yes, it can. It'll be different. I think we've all got a new norm for some considerable time. the UFC kind of not just shown now

but if you remember the UFC had that program the ultimate fighter and also the contender series did things in front of a studio crowd for example so the UFC have already had full competition where the setting and the sound is a gym setting and sound and so that's going to be the norm now we as coaches and the fighters

are used to sort of levels of competition in that setting because it's firing. It's just that it's going to be with the smaller gloves, no head guard, and people watching it on TV or on the internet. And I guess also, Adam, most boxers,

by the time they get to main event level, unless they've come with, let's say, an Anthony Joshua gold medal type pedigree, I mean, I'm thinking of the night that you were ringside, one of my greatest nights at ringside was in Nuremberg in 2009 when David Hay beat Nikolai Valuef and George Groves boxed very early on on the undercard with very few people in the arena. Josh Taylor was telling us on this podcast a few weeks ago he's boxed in amateur multi-nations tournaments

where again there was virtually nobody at ringside. So a lot of the boxers will actually have some experience, even if it's in the deeper recesses of their memory, of boxing in front of very few people. Absolutely. It's just, it's going to be different for the people watching. The people watching on TV aren't going to get the same atmosphere, but we'll get used to it. I saw some little bits of the Bundes League at the weekend, and it's the acoustics and the sound is one of the major elements for creating the atmosphere. And an atmosphere of a fight, an atmosphere in a big fight, and the atmosphere in a big competitive fire is something that makes it special. So we're going to lose that special element.

But humans can adapt. We'll get used to it for however long it has to be like that. I mean, Steve, I was watching the Bundesliga at the weekend. And it was across two days, Saturday and Sunday. Saturday, I had to say, I was quite captivated because it was different. But by Sunday, and okay, I don't follow football as closely as I'm involved in boxing. But by Sunday, I was starting to say, I've seen this. I've had enough.

It's too samey. Well, in all fairness, Mike, there's no way. to disguise an empty football stadium. You can't dress it up. You can't drape it like we do occasionally with professional boxing. You can't only film the guys who are running with the ball,

had the ball, passing the ball or tackling. Whereas we have a tradition in boxing of dressing up venues, moving people so that they're behind cameras, draping venues, dimming the lights. If you think back to, you know, if you YouTube now, any of, I don't know, Kevin Finnegan, John Conte, John H. Stacey,

Charlie Magricks, fights at Wembley, or the Royal Albert Hall, the only thing that's a light is the ring. You don't know who's there. You don't know if there's eight people there or if there's 18,000 people. Sure, you can hear them. Now, what we have here and pick it up on what Josh Taylor said and Josh Kelly would be familiar with this. When you go to the Europeans, not just multi-nations, when you go to the Europeans or the world championships, and you've seen it streamed on the BBC or streamed on the Olympic Channel, if it's an Olympic qualified, there's no atmosphere anyway. What we have the chance here is if we can, if we could film these fights and in such a cozy way, in such a close way, okay, noise aside, people won't see glaring rows of

empty seats like we saw in the Bunders Liga. And that sends, that must send a mental image to your mind. When you're watching a screen and you've got seven people in frame, but you've got 22,000 empty seats behind you. We won't have that in boxing, Mike. Perhaps they'll get the cameras closer. Perhaps they'll darken the edges of the arena. Perhaps the, perhaps the, the, walls in these new arenas that we're going to build, even in studios or in people's gardens, perhaps the walls will be a drape that ends 10 feet from the edge of the ring. So you'll just be in darkness anyway.

That might go some ways to giving us a degree of atmosphere. That's why I don't want to, you know, we're not going to film, we're not going to film five English title fights over 10 rounds at the O2 in front of 22,000 seats, are we? We're going to film him in Eddie's Garden or in a BT studio. Adam, you've got, you know, Steve mentioned there, Josh Kelly is under your command, Michael Conlon, at really critical stages of their careers. So how frustrating has this been for you and for them?

It's frustrating and also what's frustrating was how close we were. They both finished their camps. Michael was in New York and Josh had a few days ago. That was the frustration. We're over the frustration of it now. The one saving grace they have is their age, that they're young enough. There's going to be fighters who are a bit older than Josh and Michael who, who, may be losing an element of their prime and their peak, unfortunately.

So there will be people that suffer like that. But in terms of Josh and Michael, they're okay. It's almost like you can say, well, you're going to lose a year. If you lost a year, and I've had this conversation with Josh, we don't know how this is going to play out, that if he'd lost a year, he was still only going to be 25, 26, which isn't, you know, there's plenty of time for him to achieve the success. I want to go back to me.

You know, we talked about the crowd. A friend John, who works for Matcham, said that he heard something from the Bundesliga and Eddie might have a little trick here. He'll use it as a PR gesture. But how about, how about he sets up two rows around ringside and then for charity, people can pay a tenor or 20 quid or whatever

to have their face on a cutout in a chair at ringside. So the camera can pan round. The money can go to the NHS or the money can go to a nice charity, but it's almost like painting a backdrop. But stick it out, have a competition, put it out for charity. You can have your face painted

and the camera pans along and you get to see yourself on telly. Apparently, I think they've done that in Korea and they bought in a couple of thousand mannequins to stick in the stadium. Unfortunately, bought in sex dolls. Have you heard this story? It's a genuine story.

No, I kid you not. They're playing in front of basically 2,000 blow-up dolls dressed up as fans. Hey-ho, as they say in the trade. It's just what the Koreans have done. That's all I'm saying. I'm pretty sure they'll probably be cheaper than the heavy-duty mannequin, so maybe you might want to let Eddie know that there's a cost-effective way of doing this thing. How do you feel about getting back in the groove, Adam, in terms of health and safety?

And how do the likes of Josh Kelly and Michael Conlon feel about that? You know, we're hearing about the project restart for the Premier League and how some players are gung-ho ready to go and others are very reluctant to get going too early. The short answer is I don't have any concerns at all. I think going back to something that got brought up about testing and testing for antibodies. So the types of tests that get implemented are essential that these tests are done for peace of mind. and if they want to prove that they're being as safe and as conscientious as possible, that they've got to test people regularly so that you test them in training, prior to going into training, the training partners that they're going to have, and then prior to competition, and then post-competition.

But I think if they're going to cover all the bases, I think the testing protocol isn't just in competition. It has to be throughout the training period as well. You know, there's a couple of things here, Mike, that over the last four or five weeks, we've near enough missed. We've talked a lot about fighting in an echo chamber. We've talked a lot about not being able to have your fans to lift you. We've talked a lot about whether we can get someone back in the gym and sparring and travel

and international opponents and what sort of fights that they'll be. But what seems to be continually missed and overlooked here, we've touched on it a little bit. We've had a couple of straight answers, one from Josh Taylor, especially, is the costs, is the money. It's not just the money of putting a show on. We saw that bald consultation document. I'm sure you saw it, where a promoter is responsible for all of the fighters and the MC, and he has to put them up for two nights minimum, and he has to test them. I saw that Dana White tested 300 people in the build-up to that first UFC event in Jacksonville in Florida, 300 people, a total of 1,200 times. Well, a test in this country is about

180 quits. So there's that cost. The other cost is Eddie having to revisit fighters, managers, promoters and consultants and advisors and asked them in theory to take a reduction in money. Now Josh Taylor laughed us off the podcast with a suggestion that he'll take even a minor let alone a substantial loss of revenue. I just wonder where you are with that Adam if if you know Josh Kelly's fight which was when was Josh meant to be fighting was it? Was it early April? April 18 or something?

End of March, wasn't it? In the March, yeah. So in theory, that fight could, in theory, be reignited. But what if there's a substantial reduction in fee? And it's a bit like the elephant in the room this. It's all very well as planning these behind closed doors systems. We know we've already lost 95% of the boxing. Everything that passes for quote unquote small halls gone. They actually can't put on any shows.

We've lost the 900 or so boxes. We're only going to see about 50 of them in action before the end of the year because they literally can't afford it. What about the ones behind closed doors if they're asked to take substantial reductions in their pay? Well, the first thing is they're being put on to provide content for the broadcasters. Sky, BT Sport, the zone, whoever it is. And so there's there needs to be some commitment from, the broadcasters. They need content. Sky did a very good thing in stopping the subscription

charges for Sky Sports because they weren't providing any new content. But this is new content. So I would imagine that subscription fees will start to be charged again. So if the broadcaster needs content, and it's important to the broadcaster to have new content and live content, then they are going to have to invest. If they want the fights, they're going to have to invest in them. Now, you've got the paper for bigger fights. You've got a pay-per-view element. So that kind of takes care of itself.

You know the revenue streams in boxing. And if a promoter has a broadcaster, that is, in many cases, the main revenue stream. We've lost ticket sales, but sponsorship potentially will still be there because people are watching screens so they can be marketed. So it's really only Any reduction in purses has to be proportionate to what ticket sale revenue has been lost

proportionately to the overall investment into the show But it's not just the fighters That may need to be asked to take it on it It's the broadcasters as well Yeah But again you've got to look at what level And if you want the content

Because these fighters' careers Are still going to move if they're fighting and it's all risk over gain. Every fight character, especially if you want to achieve, if you want to achieve success, you want to achieve financial security, which is why they're professional fighters. So I'm sure that Eddie would have already had

his discussions with Sky and with the zone, and it's for Eddie to then pass that on and to offer. For example, you talked about Josh Kelly and that his fight with David Evanisciam for the European title. I don't see that happening anytime soon. So you then got to look at well what British opponents are there for Josh Kelly What

British or Irish opponents are there for Michael Conlon There's not a massive amount But there's certainly some intriguing matchups Yeah So there's got to be an element of Fairness and Reality on this situation But the broadcasters need content and that is the bargaining power for the fighters.

If you want me to fight this British fighter, because it's a good match-up, I want to get paid, what I should have got paid. The only thing you're losing is the ticket sales. So turn to the broadcaster and ask the broadcaster to take a hit, because ultimately they're the ones that have kept the sport alive to a large extent over these decades.

And we owe so much to Sky Sports, because when no other broadcaster was interested in boxing, Sky Sports was. and so although historically we have to be appreciative and grateful for sky sports the same token these fighters today need to understand that sky need content as well well as we were saying earlier adam it could be as much as two months before we see even behind closed doors boxing so i want to just talk generally about your life and times as a trainer but before we we do that last week on the podcast we were talking about this rumoured return of mike tyson at the age of 53 and supposedly how good he's been looking on these clips of him on the pads.

If you got the call from Tyson's people to say, would you train him? What would your reaction be? Train him for what? For fun? But for a fight. This impending comeback, whether it's against the band of Holyfield or who else. No, no, absolutely not. Absolutely. And that bit of that, listen, I think all three of us could look sensational on the pads for five seconds.

Mike Tyson is always going to look formidable when he lets his hands go. But it's funny because that little clip that everyone started talking about, I watched it a few times. And if you notice, after he throws that last right hand, he stumbles forward a little bit. And the first thing, as we get older and we've boxed that we notice is the balance isn't quite the same. The first thing to go are the legs, not the hands. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he stumbled. But I just hope, I just hope he's given himself, like he's got himself in good shape. He looks a lot healthy than he did last year. And I hope that, I hope. I hope. that he's just enjoying doing it and getting everyone talking about it and he's and everyone

talking his name but it can't i i wouldn't want to see it i don't i don't think he could ever translate into a proper 10 ounce fight with no headguards on it could end up with a sparring session with a van de hoda field for charity it's a laugh and a giggle but in terms of 10 ounce gloves no headguard under the spotlights risking health i i it's just that i won't even have that conversation no you know what you're absolutely right adam but as mike you missed it last week, mate, when you're off in Spagbogland, I was telling Fletcher, I'm sure you heard it. I've actually had death threats for suggesting that it wouldn't, you know, after 30 seconds, it would be horrible to watch.

Well, you know, I think I agree with you. It might not even be 30 seconds, but I had death threats. And there are enough people out there, including some that work for British newspapers who think it's real and that they will actually have a fight. I despair. Please, let's leave Tyson. Can we finish, Tyson? Can Tyson's comeback?

We finish, right? Let's say shame on us for even talking about it. Thank you. Let's do that. Let me just stay on Tyson for one moment. We're moving off at a tangent, but I need Mike Tyson in the story. Will you allow me this? Have any of you heard of a device called the Wizzinator? No, no.

Adam's shaking his head. Have you, Steve? No, not the Wysinator, no. Here's a giant tangent, but it's worth it. Stay with me. because with my other guys and my other hat on covering athletics, there's been a story in athletics over the past week or so about a British hammer thrower Mark Dry,

who's been banned for four years, and he's been talking about the injustice of the length of the ban. And I was thinking in terms of looking back through my folder I've got here, in fact, many folders, because there have been so many drugs cases down the years. And in that folder of drugs historical cases, I've got one from the 2004 Athens Olympics. And this is where I'm going with this,

because it was also a hammer thrower called Adrian Anus from Hungary, who won the gold medal, but was then stripped of the medal because he failed a drug test. And it was found that he'd used this device called a Whizonator. And this is where Mike Tyson comes in.

He described it as a whizzer. And in his autobiography, he talks about the night he came to the UK. He boxed Lou Savarezi in Glasgow. And he says in his book here, he says, before the fight, I smoke some pot, which stays in your system. I had to use my whizzer, which is more generally known as a wizernator, which was a fake penis where you put in someone's clean urine to pass your drug test. I was high as a kite the day before the fight. He was using this device that was also used by this Hungarian hammer thrower to win gold at the 2004 Athens Olympics. This Wizzinator is, as Tyson said there in his book, it's a fake penis which is sold in four different colors.

Well, no longer sold because the men who ran the company were convicted of fraud and supplying drug paraphernalia. But these Wizzanators became widely used in particular in the United States. and they are a fake penis available in four colors. They're attached to a tube, which in turn is attached to a balloon. And into the balloon goes some clean urine. So you can be taking whatever you like. Into the balloon goes the clean urine. The balloon is placed where the sun don't shine,

so that when the drug testers arrive, you can then whip out the fake penis, just squeeze on the balloon, and you deliver clean urine, and you passed the test. In Tyson's next fight against Andrew Golota, when he got back to the dressing room, because rumor was starting to spread,

when he got back to the dressing room, the testers were waiting at the door. And so he didn't have time to put the whizzer on. And so he failed a test, and that fight against Golota was then changed from a second round win to a no contest. And going back to the Hungarian hammer thrower,

Adrian Anus. I mean, you can't believe the name for giving where the balloon has to go. But where they rumbled him was that his urine sample was found to be so different to previous urine samples that they realized it couldn't be his. But that was something that Mike Tyson was using when he came here in 2000 to fight Lou Savorazi. So that's my tangent story for today. I'm just going to add to that. In America, the Wizzanator is not necessarily now used by athletes, but it is used by felons who have to prove to their parole officer that they're drug, that they're drug free. Perhaps they're methadone, being a methadone clinic and they have to go for these drug tests. And what they do is it circulates online that houses where you can go and get

clean urine near, and it's a complete industry, clean urine, which you can get. And then they'll also, you'll love this, this is the detail of these guys, is that they'll actually break some methadone some methadone into it. Okay, you'll let's have some methadone into it so that it doesn't come up as, say, extraordinarily different than your previous test. So there is an app out there somewhere

to help you if you're a felon and you need clean urine and you need to fill your Wizzinator up. That's enough, Mike. That's enough tangentatel, Mike Tyson Wizzinator stuff I can assure you for one show. But another story we've covered recently, Adam, Floyd Mayweather, talking about becoming a trainer.

What's your feeling about somebody who's reached that elite level joining the ranks of trainers and can they find the necessary devotion, determination, desire and commitment to be successful? I guess that's why he would want to do it. And there are his own personal motives. We've all got our own personal motives for anything that we do.

And if, you know, of anyone in world boxing now or over the last decade, I'd say that Floyd Mayweather's not, and understanding of what to do is up there at the very top with people like Ray Leonard, with the greats, right? His knowledge and understanding of what to do. And as a coach, what you're trying to do is impart the knowledge and understanding of what to do where they understand it and where they can use it.

So he's probably in a better position than anyone that's converted from fighting to coaching to being a coach. He still has his health intact as well. It's whether or not he wants to do it, but it'll be a fascinating. He would be an absolutely fascinating addition to the coaching world. Do you think, Adam, that there's a need for a trainer

to be proficient in two very important areas? And I know they're both obvious, but in my experience, not every trainer is adept in both situations. in the gym and in the corner on the night. That key section of time between rounds, it's not 60 seconds, it's closer to 40 seconds. By the time the box is sat down and you've got the gum,

yeah, you've got the gum shoot out. And we've been running this series on the podcast called Greatest Fights, and we were lucky enough for the first of them to have Sugar Ray Leonard taking us through his first fight against Tommy Hearns. And the famous interjection in the corner between rounds 12 and 13 from Angelo Dundee saying, you're blowing it sun, you're blowing it sun. And Sugar Ray said to us that undeniably, that was key to him winning the fight.

Now, less publicised, I remember on the night, we covered the night that David Hay beat Nikolai Valueff in Nurember back in 2009. I've already mentioned it. At one stage, we went across to you in the corner. As we do occasionally during fights, you've been ringside with us as a co-commentator. And occasionally, because we've got microphones in the corner, like the TV broadcasters, we'll go across and listen in to what the trainers are saying. And this was, I can't remember exactly which rounds we're talking about here, but I'm thinking maybe between rounds seven and

eight, might have been between rounds eight and nine. And you said to David, you're coming down to his pace. You're slowing down to his pace. And he picked it up again without rampaging around the ring, because that wasn't part of the strategy. But he just, he just nudged it up again in pace in terms of what he was doing, the speed he was working at, the volume he was working at. And And, you know, you need to have a really clear mind that's almost free of nerve at that stage to be able to impart that to a boxer at a key point in a fight. But that goes back to training. And specifically, I can talk specifically about that fight. We talked about the more that he tried to land against Valoev, the more chance Valoev had to win the fight. because Valuea was such a prescribed boxer

because he was this big dude that they just converted into a boxer. So the whole strategy for the fight was to make everything as unpredictable as possible. So when I use that phrase, you're dropping down to his pace or his tempo is how I would have probably remembered it.

It's David's internal rhythm of constantly stepping and fainting to burn Valoev's concentration. So eventually he just, wasn't able to mentally function competitively because he was burnt out from trying to second guess, was he going to be in range or not, make him choke up on his own punching. So that dropping down to his level or his tempo wasn't about David throwing more shots. It was about David creating more illusions so that each individual shot could land

without the thought of this giant copping hold of it. But that came out of the weeks of preparation. and the understanding that the strategy for this fight was to be as unpredictable as possible, not to try and fight the scorecards, because fighting the scorecards will make you more greedy with your hands. Get greedy with your hands, you're in range. You're in range with a big giant that weighs 20-odd stone.

He only has to cuff you, have an effect on you, because you're a cruiserweight. So make everything as unpredictable and staccato as possible. So I played a lot of Michael Jackson tracks during training because Michael Jackson had a staccato rhythm to his... to his music. And even having that conversation during training, let's put off the wall on today and let's play these tracks.

It was to keep reinforcing the fact that everything had to be off-tempo and unpredictable, because that was the psychological strategy and the rhythmical strategy for that fight. Come fight night, when I used the phrase, you're dropping to his tempo or his rhythm, right?

It would have related back to all of those conversations and moments in training where we made sure that there were three or four or five or six fainting, faints, whether it's a foot faint or a head faint or a hand faint, every single shot that he wanted to land. I remember at the post-fight party, Adam, talking to you about just reflecting on our days, you and I were together at the Lynn Boxing Club in Southeast London, way, way back. How much of what you learned in those days influences what you do now?

Because I always say, I couldn't be doing what I'm doing now without the experiences I had back then. I mean, there was a period maybe just before you and I or maybe just after you and I, but across a period of only about six or seven years in that club was yourself, Mick Campwell, who fought three times for a world title in the lowerweight divisions. Mick Hennessy, promoter, Danny Williams, Henry Akinwondi won the WBO heavyweight title, Chris Ocker, Derek Angle, fought for the world cruise away title. Pat Passley, went to the Commonwealth Games.

So it was an amazing squad. And whereas we didn't all know what we'd go on to do, it just goes to show that there was already that kind of spread of boxing knowledge across the gym over different times. And we spent different amounts of time with those people. But it was an amazing time to be in a single gym. It's really ironic that you mentioned that. I actually went to the Lynn.

I was a light Walter. I was boxing for Croydon. and I went to the Lin because Ibi Mustafa was there and Ibi Mustafa was the light World to weight ABA champion and I remember I think I was 17 I think I was 17

I remember thinking right he's the ABA champion I'm going to that club as soon as I went there one of the first things I did was spa with him that was the reason why I first went to the limb from a young age I didn't listen to coaches

and the reason why is I idolize people like Leonard Benitez Geran and these artists of this poetic violence that's a martial art called boxing. And I would watch and I would try and imagine what they feel when they're in certain positions. I might look at a photograph because we had VHS, right, if we were lucky, after a sort of year, but I used to look at, I had Nat Fleischer's book, The History of Boxing, the Big Yellow

ones, do you remember it? Yeah. And I used to stare at the photographs every morning having my breakfast and try and understand how did he end up in that position? What movements must he have done to end up in that position? And I sort of started to coach myself like that. The one phrase that I always used to hear when I was boxing as an amateur was, put your hand, put your left hand up, you're posing.

That's all I ever used to hear. For me, the low left hand was something that evolved from watching and trying to understand what was going through the minds and the feelings of the fighters that used to idolize. And a low left hand is a frame of mind. It's not a style. It's a psychological approach that can work for you if you know how to use it. The only coach, the only coach that ever took me on the pads, whoever spoke to me when I was training on boxing,

that didn't tell me to get my left hand up was you. And I don't know if you remember, but whenever you were doing pads, because you coached the juniors at the time, didn't you? And then moved into the seniors. And there was that, that must have been around the time I went there. And I remember whenever I saw you with the pads on your hand,

I would always move to the punch bag that was closest to you. I hope you'll turn around to me and say, come and do some pads. Because you were the only one that didn't say, put your hand up. If anything, you encourage me the opposite. Now, I don't tell fighters to keep their lead hand low. But if a fighter naturally has that style, I understand it. And I understand that you have to nurture that style and the understanding of it. And that you were, the only person who ever coached me,

who ever took me on the pads, allowed me to be that. Remember, this is back in the early 80s, isn't it? Yes, yeah. Early to mid-Aicies, yeah. Everyone was like that. If you were like that, hit your hands up, you're posing. It was always like that.

So the answer to your question was how much did that impact on me as a coach today? That was a very pivotal moment for me. Because it let me know someone else got it. I wasn't going mad. that it is the right thing to do and I can do it even though no one else is doing it

and you were the only one that actually made me feel like that. So what you're casually doing there is you're casually filling in what, a 30-odd year history a 30-odd year history, a 30-odd year seasoning period getting somewhere near

to being ready to pull out of the oven now which is another age-old debate on how long does it take to become a good cause? and can you become a good coach overnight? And the answer, well, as I say, it's an age-old debate. That's for another show. But I think you've nailed it there, Adam.

Anybody that would consider you to be, what is a young coach? You know, he had David Hay for a few years. You just nailed it there by taking us back to a period, not 10 years ago, not even 20 years ago. Not even, you know, what we're talking to, it was about 35 years ago, for God's sake. 34.

34. 34, easy. Thanks for that. Slow down. But there's a point there that Steve makes Adam I got a lot of it even in the amateur game that you're too young to be a senior coach you can't have lived,

you can't have experienced what you need and that goes back to whether it's the Hollywood movies or whatever, it's always an old man and a grizzled grey-haired old man in the corner and you get it, Ben Davison's getting it now, you got it in the early days with David Hay and less so with George Groves as you were coming through.

But there is, even to this day it's still there the perception that, you know, you've got to be an old codger to really know anything. And look, we can't dismiss because we've been talking about the importance of experience. But there's something about a freshness and a willingness to learn that can be really important in those early days. Well, so when I didn't, I didn't, I went down to a gym, the Fitzroy Lodge, I had a friendship with Mick Carney, and I was taking people on the pads because I just wanted to be back amongst it. I was working as a lecturer and I just wanted to be back in my life.

it's boxing. I broke on my leg, couldn't fight anymore, and that was it. And then one day I said to him, can you just give me three of your boxes that I can just focus on rather than just doing pads with loads of people. And David Hayes happened to be one of them. And then our relationship grew from there. But I never started taking people on the pads, which is an element of coaching for any reason, other than it was just my way of expressing my love for the school and indulging it. And then it went on. When David was in the amateurs, I had run in with the ABA because they didn't want me anywhere near him. They said he had to only train with Team GB. And we had quite a heated meeting at Crystal Palace.

When David fought in the World Ameth's Championship in 2001, he didn't train with Team GB. He trained with me. But obviously, the funding was based on medal count for Team GB. So he was their biggest hope for medal count. So funding. So David kind of knew that he could have it how he wanted to. then when he was in the world amateur championship in Belfast, 2001, he fought four times in four days. I had to pay for my own ticket to get him.

And I remember I was up halfway up the sand at the Odyssey Arena in Belfast and he knew where I was. You know when you walk around the concourse and you've got like the vendors, like some of the hot dogs and stuff like that? And then just before you walk into the arena, there's like a little inlet, isn't there, before the double doors. Right before each one of his fights, he'd run up to see me. we do pads in that little inlet in the in the concourse. He'd then run back down and reappear with the coach and get into the ring. When he turned pro, when David turned pro, there weren't many coaches who were coaching fighters

that had promotional contracts with the significant promoters, whether it was Frank Warren, Barry Hearn or Frank Maloney, who were the ones then. And then Mick Hennessy came into the foray with Carl Frot. There weren't many. There weren't many coaches. And I remember, I remember getting, it felt like, it felt like everyone was against me.

David's faith in me of a young, inexperienced coach, of, being in mind, I had trained him in the amateurs and went through that difficult period with him after he got, because I just, I started training him like two amateur fights before he got stopped by Jim Twight in the first round. So we'd been through a little rocky moment together and come through it and then went through the team GB thing and then he got silver medal at the World Amateur Championship.

So we'd already proven our relationship to each other. And naively, he put his faith in me. And naively, I believe that I knew what I was doing. But only time was going to show whether I was right or rock. But we chose to do that together. And that was the intensity of, commitment that he had and the faith that he put in me as a fighter and that I had with him as a coach. But it was intense. And the night he lost to Carl, Carl Thompson, and we both,

David and I both know why he lost to Cole Thompson. But the night after that, it gave all of the promoters who weren't able to sign him up on these promotional contracts to galvanize their own network deal, that Aldi Harrison had trailblazed the relationship with the BBC, that we were able to come in in his slipstream and have the same type of direct fighter broadcaster relationship, which cut out a lot of the deceptions that you can encounter trying to figure out how much your worth is as a fighter. So we both had to have a face in each other

and sharpen up and be really open-minded and understanding him and resist the temptation to go where it was safe and really be immune to the intense criticism that was being bombarded our way. And Steve, you saw it. And the night he lost Carl Thompson, that was it. The door was open for whoever wanted to have at us and me personally as a coach and a manager. And we told you he didn't everyone know what he was doing. It's time for you to move on.

He's now done. He's done as a coach. He's been exposed and not knowing what he's doing. in hindsight, when I look back, there were big gaps in my game as a coach because I allowed certain things to happen because of my closest of my relationship with David, that the friendship and the coaching relationship, the lines get blurred when you're spending that much time with each other. There was only a 12-year age gap between this. It wasn't like I was 30 years or 25 years old than him or 20 years.

It was a 12-year age gap. And he was quite mature for his age, and I thought I had quite a youthful approach. So although there was a 12-year physical age gap, there may have only been a two or three-year age gap in terms of how we viewed life, which is why we had the friendship. But there were gaps in my game, absolutely. I always question whether I'm doing the right thing or wrong thing.

It's my nature. I always ask why. Why am I doing that? Why did that work? Did it work just because we got away with it? Or did it work because it genuinely was the right thing to do? And there's been wins that I've been part of. I knew that were wins that we just got away.

with it. But there may have been fights where there were criticisms or a loss where, no, I actually know what we did. There was no other choice. What we did was how it needed to be and that's just how the chips fell. Because we're not in a measurable sport, are we? There's no distance and time to measure. So much of it can be anecdotal, which is why I think this sport is rife with coaches that probably pretend to be something they're not and get away with it. I have a little story where first world title fight I was ever involved with was David's first world title fight in Paris, John Markmoremec. And we'd trained in Cyprus.

We had literally had, we'd had our problems in training, but it was just him and me in this tin shack in the sweltering heat for months on end, because the fight kept getting delayed. And eventually we arrived at that moment in time. And I thought, I thought David was as prepared as he ever had been for a fight. But mentally and technically, he was magnificent that night. Against a fighter with a style that inherently was always wrong for it. and the best fighter with that style in that division, John Mark Moore, who'd beaten everyone he fought.

So David wasn't only fighting the type of style that was always his kryptonite, but this fellow was one of the best at it, a leech of a tuck-up strong fighter that will make you blow your load until eventually the edges come off your work, and then he'll start to question your doubt and your ability through the fight. So the strategy for that fight and the preparation psychologically and the belief that we had in each other was very special. So anyway, I turn up, we're in Paris, beautiful week, and I thought, I've got everything

covered here. One of the things I was worried about Jean-Mart Moormac is that how he came in with the top of his head all the time. And so to try somehow to put a bit of pressure on the referee not to allow that, which would open up a bit of a gap between them, because if it looked like Moormick was coming in with his head, the referee would keep stopping it and saying, stop doing that, which would again keep giving that little bit of breathing space, right? Because the one person that can corrupt the course of a fight, and when I say corrupt, I don't mean it in a negative way. I mean, the one person who can steer the course of a fight is a referee. Because as coaches, we can do it in sparring. And if you sense that someone's tired, it might be all of a sudden going to get

under the cost and get something can happen where the referee breaks that moment in time just to it's like suffocating. You cover someone's mouth. How long does it take before they die? Because they can't breathe, two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, whatever it is. But during that period of time, if you take your hand off just for a fraction of a second and they go, and then you put it back again, you start the clock again. So referees can do that very subtly, and I see it all the time through course. I've seen it in very, I've seen it in what I believe was a made with a fight. Quite, quite obviously, but I'm thinking, there's no one else seen this.

And I'm texting people saying, did you seriously see what happened? So back to the morning. So I went there with the intention of causing a whole ruckus in the in the, in the free fight rules meeting. I'd already been dismantled and humiliated by Don King when we turned up where he saw David and all of a sudden, you know what Don King's like, you'll sit there and he'll sit there.

And one second he looks like an old man that probably is going to struggle to go and have a pee in the toilet. And the next minute, when he realizes there's a camera or someone to perform to, it's like someone shoots this electricity. He sits bolt up right. It's almost like his hair does stand on end. and he starts performing. I was the victim of that.

A bit wet behind the ears, a little bit green. I've walked in and he's gone, David, hey, bum, bum. And he started bombarding David. So I'm sitting there watching it. And he, during this barrage of ingratiating chat with David, because obviously he was trying to cover both positions, if more than it loses, I'll have you. I'll get you.

I'm Don King. It was that. I'm sitting there watching it and allowing it because I didn't know how to deal with that. And he said, during this seamless performance, he says, is that your manager? And David, David said, yes, because what else were you supposed to say?

And then that was it. The seamless stream of compliments to David flicked to a seamless stream of abuse to me with no, with no right to reply, seamlessly back to this ingratiating chat with David again, And I just stood there and shrank into the distance, mortified. I had to go out at a little moment to myself in my bedroom. What was he saying to you, Don King, on the press conference table?

You really think I let it try to go in too far. I'm an abused victim in that moment in time. Don't make me relive it. All it was, I was nothing. I knew nothing. I was nothing. I've always been nothing and I'm always going to be nothing. Don't waste your time with this.

How the hell can he be a boxing coach? He's got no good. great hair. He's not sucking his teeth. He hasn't got grapes and the towel. Get rid of him. It was that. I don't want to read. You've still got the scar tissue, obviously. And then I had this, I had this preparation for the, for the rules meeting. I had CDs. I'd printed off these sheets. I was going to hand out to the referee and the inspectors and the judges that at one minute 20 of round four against O'Neill Bell, he does this. At one minute 60, in round four against O'Neill Bell, he does this.

And I had 84 page full of all this stuff where Moormick wades in with his head. Because all I wanted the ref to do is to stop him doing it to keep that breathing space so that David had that space to keep stepping and keep winning the rounds without having to graph his hands. You still with me? Yeah, cool. Who was Moormec's trainer for the night? Richard Giacetti. Was it Richard Gia?

Yeah, right? So we get to the rules meeting, right? And the room was packed. Like we had a bunch of our friends that ended up in the room as well. And then the room was, I got a picture of it somewhere where everyone's sitting there. So we had probably had the 15 people around the table and then another 30 people in the room. Some of his mobs or my mob, some people that probably just worked at the hotel. I have my CDs copied for everyone because if they wanted to go and look at one minute, 42 of round four, they could.

I had the paper with itemized what I believe was an infringement of the rules that could. corrupt the course of the fight. And all the whole point of this was to put pressure on the referee so that to make, to have him very attuned in to the position of Wormake's head. That was all it was to give David that space. So I thought I put on a masterful performance. I think my memory told me that there was these seven points of contention during the rules meeting. All seven points went in our favour. You know how these things go. There's an argument.

And then they'll go, no, no, it's fair enough. Okay. Because they always kept saying, you know, but obviously I trust the experience and the judgment of the referee, but I'm here as a rules meeting to say, this is what I believe is going to happen in the course of the fight. And as my coach, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't make you aware of my concerns,

and my concerns are based on the fact that these infringements go against the rules of boxing. That was all it was, right? And I was quite eloquent. I struck it out of that rules meeting, the polar opposite of the man that got ripped shred by Don King 24 hours before. We're in the hotel in Levalua.

I got into the lift. Two other people got in the lift straight behind me. Some dude I didn't know who he was and Richard Giochetti. So I'm standing there and the lift's going up. As the lift's going to make eye contact with him, I just wanted to get back to my room and just breathe aside relief that I got through that how I thought I could. As I was just about to go at the lift, he put his arm on me

and he just said, all right, kid, one day you'll get how all this works. I now know, I now know what he meant. And we all know what he meant. But I was, I'm staying there thinking, I'm just beating him up. I'm not going to look at him. That's just rubbing it in. He pulled me by the arm and said, and I didn't know. For years, I probably didn't really understand what he meant.

But thinking back to how he said it, there was this gnarled, weathered knowledge of scar tissue and experience of what he went through and what his fighters went through their careers. And there's this young upstart with a healthy suntan and not a scar on his face. I'm not going to let him get away with that. He didn't have to say anything.

So there are, I think, even now I'm 51 years old, and I've been fortunate up until now to have a coaching career that I'm proud of, but even to this day, I still question, is that right for that person? Is it not? Always question why. Never think that there's someone out there that doesn't have an answer to what you think you've got the answer for. Because if you do, you lose your competitive edge. You get complacent behind your knowledge and experience.

You hide behind your knowledge experience and you hide behind your body of work. It's irrelevant. Your body of work's irrelevant now. It's about the competition that's in front of you. and to try and keep that fresh, useful mindset that I had back then, whilst leaning on these flashing images in my subconscious of, I've seen that before. I saw that before like that, and that meant that and that.

Let me keep an eye on it, because if I see that that that is where it's going, then I kind of know we're a bit of confidence now what to do in this one. You can't fake it. You can't fake it. So there are young coaches. And like you said, you've mentioned Ben Davidson, who took a lot of unfair flat

when he first worked with Billy Joe in the corner that night and when he worked with Tyson Fury. And I've sent him, I hope he doesn't want me saying this, I've sent him a little message of encouragement because it's for him, if he wants to do it,

it's for him to go and prove that he knows what he's doing. And I know what it's like to have these, this storm of abuse thrown at you, which regardless of how ignorant or confident you are, does have an effect on you.

It will. and it stops you enjoying the process so much. He's going to have his down days. We're all going to have our down days. And the scar tissue develop. And over time, it will prove if he wanted to stay in the game and if he did know what he was doing and he was good at what he's doing, but he deserves a chance.

We all deserve a chance. Just because if there's a fighter that needs a good coach or a fighter needs a coach that can guide him to the top, just because I've done that before, doesn't mean I can do it for him. It might mean that that dude that's never trained anyone in his life is the perfect coach for him. so I try not to hide behind reputation and a success

be grateful for the journey I've had be grateful for that faith that David Hay naively put in me when we were that young and when I looked back at the journey and Steve and Mick you've both been there from before it started I wouldn't change it for the world including seeing my name in the sun

getting ripped to shreds after a gutting loss. Hey, the ups and downs. Adam, it's been a joy, mate. Thanks for taking time, really has. The great stories and memories from times gone by. It's been a pleasure, mate. See you soon. See you soon, mate. Bye-bye.

Fascinating insight, Steve, into what goes on a long way away from the ring and how you get, as a trainer and a boxer to fight night and the presence of so many hurdles in between. I love Adam Booth. He's a 51-year-old kid in the game. It's a bit like how I feel, to be honest of you. And as for that story, Richard Gia Getty, the torch, the flame as he was known, as the FBI knew him in that lift in Paris.

A great story. Got to get onto some emails and iTunes reviews, Steve, and there have been many of them over the past week or so. Past couple of weeks, in reaction, a lot of them, to the greatest fight series. We started with Sugar Ray Leonard and moved on to Mike Tyson against Michael Spinks in the company of David Hay. We got on to those in a moment,

but some general reviews, Steve, this one from Nigel, OTBC, says, given the restrictions of movement worldwide, is it likely that sportsmen and women at elite level would have had a long period without testing? Well, I know, Steve, at the start of lockdown, that UKAD, United Kingdom, Andy Dobing, said there would be a significant reduction in testing. And the head of USADA in the United States, their equivalent in the United States, said that there was a huge window of opportunity for those who wanted to go down that route. Yeah, and Robert Smith talked on the pod a couple of weeks.

ago, did he about how he's been in touch with UKAD and they're looking at increasing the information and UKAD in theory are looking at increasing tests. There's nothing that could happen, Mike. You can't have 500 or 300 inspectors driving all over the country when no one's allowed to drive all over the country. It was inevitable. And in all fairness, those solid experienced cheats are going to be solid experienced cheats in lockdown or no lockdown. This one from someone who is named C with loads of Ds and load of Vs. I missed a month's worth so yesterday had a binge listen to about five episodes. A question for you, who's the greatest Irish boxer of all time?

Steve, I've just gone for the two that won world titles in more than one weight division. Steve Collins and Carl Franton and of course Barry McGregum simply because of the impact he had on the sport here and beyond. Well, Katie Taylor obviously as a woman in the woman's category, but I've actually gone for Steve Collins. You have a look closely at some of those fights and it's great. Steve Collins. Luke J.H. 1990 says he's been inspired to punch a bag after receiving some very bad news in January. I haven't stopped, he says, going so far as buying a punch bag for the shed. Stay well, Luke.

And thanks for taking the time to get in touch. Thanks also to Squizzar Red M Bristow 515. Fossey Iyer, Matt Price, 85. AC 2710 says two gents who are prepared to say it as they see it. Good one is from Adam, Steve, says recently stumbled the across Setsuel Powell against Cornelius Bundridge from 2005. Can't stop marveling at it now, which makes me a major league after timer. But many people, I think, at this time, Steve, are catching up on fights. They've never seen. I'll watch during lockdown, one that I haven't seen,

I'm not sure I've seen it before, certainly not for a long time. Wilfredo Gomez against the great Mexican Salvador Sanchez. But in terms of that one, Bundridge against Powell, if you've not seen it, then there's a double knockdown in the first three seconds. Yes, in the first three seconds. He also. Also says Adam, Steve, do you have any favourite fights that didn't make it past round one? Well, my punch of the year on our year-end reviews and awards in 2017 was the South African Zalani Tete, with that brilliant right hook against the challenger Siboniso Gonya in the WBO Bantanemate title fight in this country in 2017. Brilliant shot after just 11 seconds, you say?

But listen, that sounds untouchable when it was the first punch of the fight. But I'll tell you what, if you don't mind watching things in terrible quality, If you don't mind watching a guy that's guilty of an awful, awful lot of crimes away from boxing, you could do worse than sitting down to watch the first 18 Edwin Valero fights. They all ended in the first round. And there were one or two where you feel like he would have actually would like the assistance of two people at ringside so they could hold the person up so he could continue hitting him. Edwin Valero, not necessarily a very nice guy, but what a fighter.

On to the reviews of the Greatest Fight series, Steve, on Mike Tyson against Michael Spinks, which we did in the company of David Hay. Shea says, great recap on Tyson Spinks. Not sure what the Haymaker was on about when he said Tyson was dominating Buster Douglas. Douglas beats Tyson nine times out of ten at their peaks. As for Tyson Spinks, it was a light heavy against a 15 stone monster.

Tyson was top 10 all time at best. He didn't win a fight. He was trouble in trouble in. As far as Spinks being a light heavyweight, we shouldn't forget, Shea, that he'd beaten Larry Holmes twice and ended Larry Holmes' first. 48 fight unbeaten record. And he was a man

responsible for one of the longest range in heavyweight boxing history. So there has to be kudos to Michael Spinks for that one. These on Sugar Ray, Steve Gareth L 1980 says, never mind the five stars. The Sugar Ray Leonard Pod was seven stars. Miyalby or Mijalby says to hear the great man so

engaged and emotional was spine tingling. Peacock WBCB who's a regular listener says there's one criticism I needed more notice of the next round starting and I have to agree with that I say at the sixth round. We didn't quite make it clear, but shouldn't really have spoiled the enjoyment. I hope not. Smoking Joey, also been in touch before, says if you haven't watched while listening to Sugar Ray, do it now. Some emails from Tom Wilson with regards to the

Tyson against Spinks fight, I agree. This was probably the closest we saw to a Pete Tyson. However, I think the two radook fights, razor radop fights they are in 1991, are too often overlooked. From David Akeem Sappor, there are no other words to describe the gem. you guys put out last week in terms of sugar A, class quality, dazzling and outstanding. Thank you, Mike, Steve, and Jack, he says. Jonathan Sites here in America, Mike Tyson still viewed as a Herculean legend of the pugilistic world. And back to some iTunes reviews, Steve, Sussex Robbo, with a review entitled, Who Needs Costello? Darren Fletcher, a bit too smooth, huh? Last week. Owee, easy. And more to come from us this week in the next of the greatest fight series.

A reminder, it's Ricky Hatton against Kostezu. Ricky takes. are through almost punch by punch that famous night in Manchester in June 2005 and we're back with the regular podcast next Monday 5 Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce. Thanks again for being with us. Let's get ready to! The British government has announced a mandemic. Chief Isolati sideman says he will be making regular statements via his podcast. We are all dealing with the effects of the coronavirus, aka the only CV to make you lose your job. So join me for my new podcast called Mandemic. I have thought I am tired of sharing with my mirror.

Everything from the news reports to the memes to the conspiracy theories. I hope you're ready. Mandemic. Download and subscribe now at BBC Sounds. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over one billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys.

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