5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Can Verhoeven Shock Usyk?

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

How will a kickboxing world champion fare against one of the greatest heavyweights of all time? That’s the question Buncey puts to Olympic bronze medallist Frazer Clarke as the pair look ahead to this weekend’s spectacular showdown beneath the Egyptian pyramids between Rico Verhoeven and Oleksandr Usyk. Plus, they reflect on Dave Allen’s defeat to Filip Hrgovic, while Frazer gives an update on his own career after his narrow loss to Justis Huni.

This is Five Live Boxing. Heavyweight season, part 46, well it feels that way. The sun is nearly out, but it will be out on Saturday when we're at the pyramids in Giza. Alexander Usik defending his three world titles against the world's greatest ever kickboxer. This is what he is, Rick Overhoven. It's an interesting fight. Trust me, now last Saturday, no sunshine in Doncaster. Dave Allen ran into a brick wall called Philip Hergevich.

It was a big weekend for heavyweight, not a great weekend for Alan. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. So we could start outdoors in Doncaster, where it was pouring me rain, or we could look forward to a trip down the Nile from Cairo to the pyramids, to a neon lit ring with Alexander Usik getting in the ring and Rico Verhova. We could do both of those, and I'm not even bothered which order we do it. But the man I'm doing it with, I am bothered about. I picked him, I chose him, he was my man for this task.

I'm talking about Olympic bronze medalist Fraser Clark, fresh from a trip to Joe Gallagher's gym, in my garden, in the sunshine. So if you hear any lawn mowing, any birds or anything like that, it's because we are recording this phrase, almost in nature. First of all, you look terrific. How are you? Really well, thank you, Steve. Absolutely loving this little bit of sun.

We get ready and how much of it, so the shorts are. The shorts are on. We're talking like it's the end of the summer. No, we don't know if we're going to have one, do we? You'll be all right. You'll be in Egypt this week. I might be joining here, so we'll see. After last weekend in Doncaster.

Oh, yeah, I need some sun in my life. The phrase, when recently you boxed, when you boxed on the other month, you lost to Justice Hooney, nothing in it. In fact, I've got the scores here, 94, 96, twice, so 95-95. So it was a loss, but you boxed, it was your first fight with Joe,

And you boxed. And I came in and saw you in the dressing afterwards. I said that's the best I've seen your box as a pro. And you used the line with me. You said, I don't want the ball to forget me.

You want to get back to a British title fight. You want to actually win that bell. You want to do it. Because it's really weird to say, I know you're lost, but it was a terrific performance. Have you allowed yourself

to acknowledge that? That's always a difficult one. I think people, if you're boxed, you don't know. understand that but it's crazy that I've all of all me performances as a professional we've had the the the early ones where you sort of knocking people over that people don't know and you have the fighters of Fabio Wardley the first one is obviously really close then the next one and then you have the lost to Jamie TKV this one's

actually been the one people have made the most noise about it in the most in the how crazy is that which is crazy yeah but I understand it and I honestly think this and people, everyone has an opinion we're in boxing, that's the name of the game. But I do think for the first time in a boxing ring as a professional, I felt comfortable, I felt comfortable walking back to the corner,

I felt like I was going out of with clear instruction. I know I'm fit enough and able enough to carry out of their instructions. So it just felt like a little bit of a slap on the wrist to myself, you probably should have put yourself in a better environment a little bit earlier on. And, you know,

hindsight's a bit. great thing. Of course it. All genius is the next day. But listen, we're on the right track now, Steve, and we're a little bit later than expected. But, listen, there's some big fights ahead for me, and sure of it. There certainly are some big fights ahead for you.

Now, you're up there at the weekend in the rain. We'll stick with Dave Allen, because obviously you fought Dave Allen a few years ago and he pulled himself out after a couple of rounds. And he subsequently admitted he just wasn't. His head wasn't in there. He was getting hit. And he didn't fancy it. Now I've seen him in the shape that he's in.

Yeah. And the way he was acting on the buildup attack, when I put them two fighters, the one to box me and the one this weekend next to each other, it was chalk and cheese. So you know what? I think me and Dave had a bit, we were friends before my fight,

and then we had a little bit of a, not fallout, a bit of a tiff. And now we've kissed and made all, because we've been friends for like, since the ABAs when we were both kids. That's what I've been thinking really. So, you know, a good 10 to 15 years, we're, sparring and everything.

So, you know, I have to credit him and where he's got himself to. Yeah, no, no, listen, and so do I. And you see the shape he gets himself in and the way he perseveres. So looking at that, obviously, he fights Philip Hulgovich, the man that you've been around.

I know you were in a tournament once, but you're on opposite sides of the drawers you were telling me earlier. So he never actually fought him. But we know what Hurgovic's form is. He got a bronze medal at the Olympics in 2016, the Olympics before you. But in theory, he lost the Tony Yoker,

and we both agree he could have got the decision that day and been in the final with Joe Joyce. People going to watch out back you'll see, you'll see Philippeurga, which is quality and where he comes from

because he was fantastic at the Olympics. And his only loss as a pro was in a proper war with Daniel Dubois in Saudi Arabia where he got stopped on cuts and he might have been stopped the next round anyway, let's get that right.

We're not saying it was cuts the cuts finished the fight but he wasn't on the floor. They were banging each other. He was marked up. It was an open now. It was a proper war. It was proper war. Real good heavyweight fight.

One of the better ones the last few years, to be honest. I agree with you. It really went both ways. Yeah, so getting into the ring, or the week, just, if you were around for the week, I went to see Dave about three, two and a half weeks ago, three weeks ago.

He knew how hard the fight was going to be. And I knew how hard the fight was going to be, but I didn't expect it to turn out the way it did. I expected Hurgievich to come through in the end. But you, I wasn't there, Frays. And I always hold my hands up if I wasn't there. You were there working. for the other station.

So you were really close. Were you surprised at the Hergevich and the way he got in the ring? And the way he beat him. Well, I wasn't. And I think the whole country and everyone, all the Dave Allen funds, I think we're all a bit guilty of it.

Now and then. And probably just as Brits in general, we get a little bit carried away with what we see on the internet, what we see on Instagram, you know Dave Allen's turned up to every media outlet in the country

you turn your phone on you see Dave Allen he's laughing he's joking he's charismatic and we're loving for that yeah so I do believe that he's probably not that he didn't take it serious took it deadly serious but there's a real difference in fighters between good fighters

and elite fighters they're chalking they're different different mindset Steve and I don't always take too much from someone's ring walk or the rings on board. You know when I'm stood there, it's raining. I wasn't enjoying it too much because of the rain.

I'm sure Philip Hurgovich looked out, changed the room window and thought he wasn't enjoying it too much. I think he wanted to get down to that ring. Getting it out as soon as possible. I think he meant business and he walked down. You know when you're looking someone's face and you think? And you can tell, okay, I agree with you. It's not 100%, but when it is clear, you do not.

Yeah, I tell you a good example. Daniel DeBarre versus Andy Joshua. A lot was made of that ring walk, but if you watch it back, you can understand why you see someone who's laser-focused in Daniel DeBarr. Great point. Whereas AJ, I even looked at it and thought,

something doesn't look like the usual type, do you know what I mean? He was drifting. Whereas Hurgovich came to that ring. With intent. Yeah, and that wasn't the fillet from earlier in the week. It wasn't the fillet from two months ago. It wasn't the laughing, bubbly, friendly Hergovich to Croatian playboy and having a laugh, Hergovich.

It was a different Hergiv. Because he's even done me, Steve. You know what? I think he did as all. You know what? Because I'm looking in the week, might have been, was it the Thursday at the press conference? Yeah, I think it was, yeah. And I'm thinking, Philip, you're an experienced companion.

Don't let this man cline you into having a laugh and a joke. Don't take him serious. So he can do. He conju as well. Because it can happen because he's laughing and he's having a joke. Yeah, of course, yeah. But again, that is, I think in a lot of sports, you see them all in the basketball, the football, beautiful characters. When it's game time, it's game time.

People switch on, don't they? And yeah, you can really see that. And did you sense, and Dave Allen talked about this in post-fight interviews, did you sense that Dave was the event, not necessarily got to him, but I think he realized the relevance of fighting in his hometown, fighting in a stadium, you know, in his hometown. and I think he really tilts about feeling that pressure. It's not making excuses. It's just saying I did feel that pressure. I mean, I've done it.

I've done it myself. Basically in Darby, which is near and off. Because I've boxed all over the world my whole entire career, I only had a handful of people watch me, which are usually my teammates. I prefer it.

And I understand exactly what Dave meant because five weeks, a five weeks are different. It'll have every man in Doncaster that hasn't brought a ticket, probably trying to get hold of him. Because he's such a dance with a character. Mates, you didn't know he had. Yeah, he's probably accessible.

People are probably getting to him through his dad, through his own call, his brother, his mates, Moor Moos grew up with him and this and that. So you have that bit of pressure there. And then obviously you wouldn't perform. You've talked yourself up. It's just pride, isn't it? And did you feel that against Jamie TKV in Derby last year in the British Tariff? Yes, Steve.

I got it completely wrong. I mean, I think Dave was a lot more probably professional going to this fight than I was against Jamie TKV. I was on the Thursday night, or was it the Friday night? After the way in on a Friday, I was back to Burton in the car, my daughter was singing carols outside a pub with a choir. You were there?

I went back with my hood up, and I got mobbed by 100 people saying, oh, you're boxing to mine, I went hundreds of photos. This is the night before. And, you know, you kick yourself now. It's very unprofessional and lesson learned, but it's just little things that you think, you think you can get away with, but you can't.

Because it's not just one, they become a perfect storm. Then you realise you did something the day before, and on the Tuesday you went somewhere, on the Wednesday. All things you get pulled to do. You have to take it. You can't say no in your hometown. If you're a professional, you've got to act like I want Steve all the time, and it's my lesson.

I've learned that, definitely. So Dave Allen gets pulled out in the third round by Jamie Moore. Right decision by Jamie? I think so. It's early in the fight, and even though he's losing, bear in mind we've still got the memory of Fabio Wardley against Daniel Dubois fresh in our minds, hot topic. And so it gets, so the towel at the right time?

I think so, and my reasons for are this. If you look at any fighter in the first round of that fight, you're supposed to be your freshest. Yes, good point. And you're supposed to be your best version of yourself. Dave didn't do much in the first round. He wasn't up to much in the first round. and it's a bit like a PlayStation game

when you're taking them shots even though you're not the one giving them out it's so draining Steve yeah of course his battery power where his life would just go down and down and down so if he wasn't going to do it in the first and the levels of the opponent as well

after you're being pining on for three rounds there's a very... And you could sense that from ringside from 6 feet away. Oh yeah there's a very small chance that in round four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, you're going to turn it around. And even though Dave's been in with some good fighters in the past, yourself included he's been in with fighters,

he's not unbeaten, I think that was his ninth defeat, and he's won fights against good fighters as well. I think that he probably realized just that difference in grade with Hergovich, all those European championships, all those world championships, the Olympics that he went, all those tournaments he went, to all those years. You know, Hergovich is a top quality operator, and that's what's what.

came across to me. Just tiny little movements and little shifts in weight that Dave could generally trick you with, you know, because he's got a lot of tricks up his sleeve, Dave Allen, let's get it right. It wasn't working, nothing worked. Well, absolutely. If you have a lot, there's a clip going around somewhere I've seen it.

They're in the clinch. Dave tries to put his head down. He pulls his head back quick. He says, no, you're not doing none of that. Not to me, son. You know what? I know what you're here for. Not to me, son.

Yeah, yeah. It's not going to happen. And I think what would have probably surprised Dave a little bit. The Philip Hergevich from two days before, smiling, the odd joke here in there, he was gone. He was non-existent Steve. What we had was a man, I think his only thought was, I need to handle business here and handle it correctly because I'm looking up. I'm looking at the possibility of these world titles from men in. Big fights being mentioned for Philip.

Exactly. you know, when it come down to it, he did, Philip Hergevich did exactly what a man in his position was supposed to do. Yeah, and he's a genuine top 10 heavyweight Hergovich. We'll talk about what Dave Allen said and where he might be going

and see if you and him lock horns again. But I want to talk about Hergovich a little bit because he had talked about Moses Hittama before the fight. And he said, look, I'll fight him on August 8th if I'm not marked. Came out of the ring, he said the same thing. And in theory, there are talks

about him fighting on August the 8th. Dave. My gut feeling is he's been in a proper training camp now, you know, a longish training camp, maybe not 12 solid weeks, but he's been in a decent camp. Is August, I mean, you know enough about the amateur game, and you know enough about the pro game now. Could you go from one big training camp to another big training camp with what would be less than, well, we'll be less than a week in between, the way, with my calculations, phrase. I've been having this conversation recently Steve, you know,

about people are talking about like the AJ and the Fury thing and them two both having to fight now and then having to fight maybe next year or maybe November

December. I love boxing history Steve I think how many of him fights did Mark Tyson have his first year? No, absolutely,

you know, you look on box record some of some of Marvin Hagler's best years. I think he boxed like 10 times one year. Absolutely.

I mean you go four and four Four and five was a slow year. And that was when there was no real strength and conditioning. There's no physiotherapy. It was just food, working boots. So these guys now, they're getting the best of everything. They're getting looked after physically, mentally.

They're sort of wrapped up and they can recover amazing sports sizes come a long way. I don't see no reason why not. But I think every fighter is different. It's up to them. But I don't see. Philip Hercovich, he's probably boxed five times in a week as well before in his past. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

He certainly box five times in eight days or nine days. Probably ten times. Yeah, exactly. He's probably done that ten times in his life. So, you know, I don't think it's something that would be alien to him. So I don't know. You know, I think it's a very, that aspect of the sport is very much down to the fighter. But if I was him, and I was saying this about Joshua and Fury as well.

if you can do a training camp come through the fights like if Joshua can come through the fight that he's got on scabes and you do the right training camp you just use it as part of the training camp so you know that's like a two week reprieve it two weeks sort of break in the middle

yeah no no no so we'll see we'll see because it wasn't even resembling a hard brawl war for Philip Fergovich at the weekend was it let's get that right if I'm pretty sure either had more competitive spas in the buildup with Dave Allen

if he's in I'm not sure I'm sure I'm not sure he was in Big Bear Yeah I'm not sure If he went back to Croatia

If he'd have Give I don't know Babbage a call He might have done some rounds He would have He would have He would have He would have

He would have Stick him with that August 8th date Now Now put you You're smart man You know your game phrasing You know your boxing Is he a good opponent

For I thought Jemaine Franklin was a brilliant opponent for Moses Atama. Is he a good opponent for Moses Atama? He's a fantastic name. And I think everyone that is on the Philip Herkovich bus because he boxed on Saturday needs to... And then people are daft. Moses Atomers not Dave Anand, yeah?

So it's a different fight. I'm just trying to think, Jermaine Franklin, perfect opponent. Philip Hergevich I think he's two levels above Jermaine Franklin myself and he takes a great shot takes a great shot

He's got a good engine I would like to see I'm not saying that's a bad fight in the career of Moses I'd love to see the fight but if I was I would like to see the middle ground and they're hard to find now

with heavy ways between Jermaine Franklin and Philip Hergevich I'm kind of with you which doesn't mean that I think Philip Hergovich would beat Moses Itatama. That's not the point. I agree with you.

I think we can find someone in the middle. There's the step towards Hergavish, in my opinion. Yeah, the names aren't quite coming to me just this second. Big Baduilar was the one that sort of come to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone like that. But again, you know, if we keep seeing what we're seeing from Moses, there is no reason.

And if we've got off history, there's no reason why he can't take that leap. No, no, I agree. Because obviously everything he's doing at the minute is, it's fantastic. It's something, you know, that as a country, we should all be really excited. It's good for all our business, similar as that. Yeah, exactly.

Frays, now, I'd like you to, if you could. I know it's not quite warm enough, but I want you to close your eyes and that noise you can hear in the background is the Cairo traffic, my friend. But don't worry, because we're taking... Beep, beep, beep. We're a bit more than that, son.

We're taking a boat down the Nile. Funucci, I believe, is the correct term, for a Nile Egyptian boat. We're going to take a... Take a... Go down the Nile, find our spot because Alexander Usik and Ricardo Verhoven's taking place in front of the pyramids in Giza on Saturday night. Now there's some confusion when this fight was first announced about who would sanction it and who wouldn't sanction it. As of now, and we're recording this on a Monday afternoon in the sunshine in my garden, as of now, this is the way it stands with the free sanctioning bodies.

Now this could change by the time this pod gets released. but this is as of now. If Ussick wins, he retains his title, according to the IBF and the WBA and the WBC. They will sanction it all three of them as a world championship fight if Usset wins. However, if Verhoeven wins, he will not get any of those belts. At the moment, Ussick would lose his title under the IBF's guidance at the moment. the WBA and the WBC have not fully declared their intentions or whether they would strip Ussick if he lost.

Now where this creates a problem is for people like Ajik Kabayel, who's the number one proper WBC challenger, or Murat Gassiev, who's the WBA number one challenger, they can end up inheriting a vacant title fight. It's a bit tricky. So basically, what we're going to do is we're going to forget the IBF, the WBA and the WBC, and we're going to look at this as the latest in the crossover fights.

Big Rick Overhoven against Alexander Usik. We all know what Usick's about. How much do you know about Big Rico? And have you encountered him? Have you sparred of him? Because he's been in and around British gyms for 15 years. He's been around, yeah, he's been around. And I've never encountered him.

I can remember when Fury, when Tyson was training with Peter. That's right, yeah. And he used to look at all the sparring partners. When I've seen his face this. time. You remember who's a pitch? Oh yeah. So that's Aina.

You know what? He's been around and he's not just a kickboxer. He's been sparring good boxers for a long time. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's the one thing that the people in that business, the kickboxing business stay. Because he's been this champion of glories for 4,220 days, 22 unbeaten fights. But a little closer look at those 22 unbeaten fights, there's only five knockouts by punch.

By punch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, I thought, slight low. So then I did a little bit more. I've done my recent. search here day phrase trust me

so in case you came tired I thought I'd do all the work no no no no George Claude

van dam all those years ago when he was kickboxing world champion 20 fights 19 by a proper knockout

oh that's why he became a Hollywood superstar anyway it's just of course where

the Hover wants to go so what what do you know about what have you gained because I'm sure

you spired with people that have spied of him what have you heard so I have

the word on the street is that he's as much as of a boxer as he's a kit boxer if that makes sense because when I think kickboxer straight away first thing I go to is

it's Van Dam yeah you think wide stance yeah bouncing up and down now if you're one of the other fighters

that could your cabal's and people like that you are thinking you know what Usik make sure you get it right because their big fight is with Usik. Absolutely. He's the cash cow.

He's the cash cow. So if you're in the division right now, you're praying Usik doesn't mess this all, which is very unlikely. We know that because this is boxing. It's the rules of boxing. So I don't think there's a man. Because remember, I've been in the ring with Usik

probably in the last year. Yeah. And, you know, you consider yourself, I can fight, you know, and the lads that was in the gym with me as well, sparring with him, they can all box. I couldn't, I can't picture a world or a way that someone, a kickboxer out boxes. Now if this was no holds bar, Stephen,

he can start kicking and elbow in. He might have a chance, but I can't see it. And he is taller. He might be 30 pounds heavier and he is three or four inches taller, but then so is Tyson Fury. So is Daniel Dubois heavier. So, you know, it's not like, People talk about Usik like he's 13 stone 8 or something

and 5 foot 11. He's a big old lump, Alexander Usick. Let's get it right, phrase. You try. I've been in Amazon where I've been close and personal and thought, let me lean on him. Let's see how he's after a couple of hours of been. And you'd have a couple of inches on height.

A couple of 20 pounds more. I'm thinking, let me lean on. Let me put 19 stone on him. Let me see how he's made of the right stuff, Steve. For as strong as he is, He is crafty and knowledgeable. So, first of all, you get trying to lean on him. If he doesn't want to be, if you don't want to be leaned on, he won't be.

He's not there. Wow. If you're not an experience, not a professional fighter in the boxing sense of things, it's really difficult to speak about this. It's really difficult to speak about this because going off the record, it's very impressive. All them days is a world champion of kit boxer. Yeah, yeah. But I know myself, boxing is different. And he only boxing three rounds and five rounds.

Exactly. Three, five, three, five, threes, by the way. So, so we're talking, what is this? Is this 12 rounder? 12 rounder. Yeah, 12 round. Yeah, well, tall-fight, yeah. World top.

If this gets to round six, seven, eight, and you've been working hard trying to hit something. And you've been missing. You've been missing. Oh, yeah. It's going to become real tough. Yeah. And Ussics, you know, like we talked about Philip Hergovich,

there'd be, you know, two sides of Philip Hergovich. There's two sides to Ousek. You know, he's that fantastic character outside the ring. We know that, and he's just a lovely man, and he's a great human, and he does all sorts of great humanitarian work. But when he steps through the ropes phrase, you know, he becomes, forget all the dancing routines and the funny underpants and the silly hair. That's when he becomes focused, and that's a different man.

All them top guys, they're elite, they're all like it, Steve. For as much, for as much as good characters are, they're dark, dark people. I'll give you a good example You look at Loma Yeah Yeah If you think for one second Oh look at it

Look at how smoothie moves Look at all the turns And the angles Nasty The intent in these men Is to go in there Because remember Top of Bottom is

To everyone else is entertainment These guys work Yeah of course Yeah And it means A lot of the guys They don't look past the fight But they know

The top of bottom is The next payday Yeah Depends on what happens In these next few rounds That's what I mean. And they think about that massively. And so I think, as you said, I think he gets to him and he's smart.

And I think the grade will be a bit apparent. Not like the Dave Allen thing at the weekend, but I think he'll find himself Rick Over Herbert. By the way, he's a terrific character as well, really nice fella. And I think Peter's a smart man. They know what they've got to do to win, but they also know most likely how easy it will be to be beaten. They're not deluded going into it.

And I just think it's an interesting couple of, rounds and then I think we're going to see the best of Usick because I think I think it would be a bit of, I think he can have a fun afternoon in the sun. Well I'm going to flip it a little bit Steve. It is an interesting couple of rounds but I also know it's different when you're boxing someone from a different discipline

they do everything a little bit different so I imagine Usik can work that out 100% but he'll have to work it out. It's not going to have to work out. It's not going to be a case of it'd be better off fighting a novice boxer, someone that's been in boxing for a long time, than an experienced kit boxer, because like I say, they do everything a little bit off.

Did that happen a little bit with Francine Garnau against Tyson Fury? Absolutely. I mean, we know Tyson didn't prepare, like, his life, depending on it, but he still looked lost in the ring. Confused in the ring. You ask any professional boxer or top hamishers, sometimes when you spot a novice or someone that's not supposed to cause you a threat,

everything's a little bit off, Steve. The way they throw their shots isn't like you're used to. And they might miss with the backhand and swing it back. Remember, did it. And if you're 18 and a half stone, that's a lot of back end. This guy, he's going to be dangerous.

I imagine it's going to be difficult for him to keep his feet on the ground. He could want to turn around and kick at one point. So the dangers are there. But one thing you do know with Usyk and T-Musik is ultimate professionals. And they had to be prepared for this. as if they're preparing for an anti-Josh or a Tyson Fury.

And when they tell you that, they don't need to tell you that. Because you just know it. Because as you say, with them, they want a bigger plan and they live in a bigger scheme and a bigger dream. Like Lomachenko. Lomachenko wasn't just looking at this fight. He was looking at three fights down the line and this guy coming across.

I want to ask you about someone who's on the undercard there. Obviously, this week we'll have pods all week and we will have live commentary from Cairo on Five Live at the weekend. So we'll also be here. this week from Jack Catchell. I went to see him in Liverpool before he flew out and we'll also be hearing from Hamji Shiroz once we land on the ground. But there's a guy, there's a heavyweight fight that's really interesting me. Frank Sanchez, the Cuban,

who's a decent enough fight, don't get me wrong. Fighting Richard Torres. I'm beaten as a pro. We had a couple of famous defeats to Bacca de Jalov as an amateur. Now this guy Torres, I've liked this guy Torres for a while. I'm not quite sure why I really like him because he's not a massive heavyweight. He's not a devastating heavyweight. state in heavyweight but there's just something about in phrase now you've been in training camps in america with my baby elsewhere what's he like and what does he bring to this heavyweight

business at the moment i'll tell you something which you can now ask him this dear to you he's a magician oh i like that thank you he's a magician go on phrase and go on go on i tell him big phrase said he's knowing you do a magic trick i've known him to hit the ties some of the lads on gb before no way yeah and i was i was worried about getting too close to him because I was going to be sparring him a few days later. I didn't want nothing putting on me. But in terms of his fighting style, I think the credit I'm going to give him first or foremost,

it is a fantastic professional. If you look at him now, the changing his body and his body shape from the amateurs to now, totally different person. He looks fantastic. Tough as they come. And he's been around that Olympic system, you know,

so he can box obviously. You don't get Olympic silver by not be able to box. The elephant in the room is it and he probably doesn't like this address is a smaller heavyweight but he's explosive He's not a 14 stoner But he's in that middle ground

He's not a 17 and a half Thick set big legs strong fast powerful But he's not six foot four Six foot five He's foot six foot isn't he He's only a big six foot isn't he? But because of the experiences

He's had over the years I believe he's started to use this to his advantage. Okay. He's in there with Frank Sanchez. Yeah. Last time I seen Franz Sanchez, it wasn't too clever.

Who did he box? Adjit or something? Was it Adjit? Yeah. Ajit. Adjit is a great fire. Yeah. By the way, yeah.

I expect youth and enthusiasm to come through. And Richard Torres to be able to get close to him and really open up on him. Yeah. But again, these Cuban guys, you know, are there, do you know what I mean?

No, I think Torres is going to bring a little bit a little bit of life and love to the party to be honest with you. I think he can spread a little bit of joy. If he does a good job on Sanchez, that really sends a warning. Well, he does, and if I'm correct, I've seen him, is in the top ten of a few

different... Oh, no, yeah, he's ranked and I understand myself. He might have gone under the radar like Uzzas Britsa rear. For saying we've got a heavyweight in the top ten, I won't say commercially he's massive yet, but I think he's got a style that people will enjoy

and people love a smaller heavyweight as well when they fight big lumps so I'm looking forward to see Rocky Drago syndrome son exactly I'm looking forward to see Richard Torres like I say one of the best guys lovely guy I spent a lot of time with him through the amateurs and I'm wishing more the best

the magician Richard Torres that's just about it really phrased to be honest of you when are you out next I suppose I should ask you that oh do you know when you're out next no I don't know yet I've got calls this week Steve like I say you know I really enjoyed that loss and I'm sitting here saying

I'm a smile on my face because it's hard to say I see the potential in me you know with Joe Gallagher being in Moss Island in Champs Camp has put the fire back in me and it probably gone a bit after the JVTKV fight you know it's been Swanson Dazma

pro career but I'm still here I'm enjoying it and it's a journey well you look like a better pro in defeat that night than you've looked in victory and certainly even the draw against Fabio, that brilliant and that great night because that was just about heart

and slugfest and guts. It was terrific, but you were a better boxer the other day. You were better pro the other day. Listen, Fray's been an absolute pleasure grabbing you down and sit with you in the sunshine and the fading sunshine. And right on cue as the school's empty out, the ice cream van arrived.

You see, we are doing it outside. Yeah, you thought we were doing it somewhere, some of a bit of background noise. No, that was real noise. So for Dave Allen, it wasn't enough against Philip Hergovich. Hergovich showed us the side that Fray and I have seen. That's a vicious side. He can be cruel.

Don't get me wrong. That's why he's a top 10 heavyweight. And this weekend, in front of those pyramids, those three pyramids in some neon storm that they'll create, Alexander Usik will walk to the ring to defend his three World Heavyweight Championship belts against Rickover, who everyone seems to absolutely love. If they don't give him a chance, at least they like him. And he added a bonus is that little Richard Torres thing on the undergone.

Hamza. She has fights for a world title. We'll hear from him later in the week. Jack Cattle's in a hard fight. We'll hear from him later in the week. And the fight will be live. Ousick and the rest of them. Shiraz, Torres, Cater will be live and five live.

This Saturday, I've been Steve Bunce in the English countryside. The next time you hear from me, there will be background noise. There will be people making espresso, coffees, coffees, food being served, boats being launched to go down the Nile. we will be in Egypt. I've been Steve Bunce, and this has been Five Live boxing. Five Live Sports.

So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Check for Al-B-Darbon-H. Lives on BBC sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Here ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits.

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