5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Dalton Smith & Britain’s Greatest Away Wins

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

Where does Dalton Smith’s world title win in New York rank among the greatest British performances overseas? Mike Costello joins Buncey to look back at some of the most iconic nights by a Brit abroad, from Lloyd Honeyghan to Tyson Fury. Plus, Dalton himself on the night, the fight, and what comes next.

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degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash podcast. This is Five Live Boxing. So a week or so after Dalton Smith pulled off an incredible win to come back to Sheffield, well, in a bit of a mess, to be honest of you. That's from relaxing.

With the WBC super lightweight belt, light well-to-weight in old money. I sit down with Dawton and go through the fight and it's beautiful. But then it got me thinking about great wins by British boxers overseas as underdogs, either in world title fights or non-tidal fights. And you're going to love this bit. And you're also going to recognise the familiar voice. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So I'm inside the Zone office.

Opposite me is Dalton Smith. I'm going to let you into a secret. He's done about three to six hours of interviews and he probably doesn't know this because they have a lot. told him, but he's got another three hours after I'm finished, okay? So pace yourself, consider this an old-school 15-round fight. First of all, congratulations on what was not just a great win, but a great performance, Dole.

No, I appreciate it, thank you. I want to talk about the moment that he goes down and you know you're the champion. What was that like, Dawn? It was a bit of a surreal moment, obviously, to do it in that fashion, and then just see everyone going crazy, you know, including you. Including you. You know, my dad, the people, was there. It was, I haven't really got any words for him in a minute,

and I don't think it's really sunk in. But once he's down, you know he's staying down. Can you tell that, or do you think he's going to get up? Did you think he's going to get up and be allowed to continue, is what I should have said? Yeah, I mean, I knew he went down heavy, and I seen the way he got up and he stumbled, and then I've seen the ref looking, and I just seen him wave it off. I always expect my opponents to get back up,

but as soon as I've seen the ref wave it off, It was like, wow. Wow. There's no words. There's no words. There's like one second when you sort of freeze. It's like, you've got to watch it again, but you almost freeze for like half a second.

It's like, I think I've done it. I've done it. It's exactly that. The feeling of just, I've done it. Now, it was a bold plan to meet Mattias, the way you fought him and the way you did it. The finish itself was really calculated. Just saying you dropped him with a right.

hand isn't enough because you'd hit him with the left hook, you'd pulls, you'd hit him with the right hand, you pulls, you'd readjusted your feet. That's the type of stuff you'd do on a bag. You did it in the fifth round of a world title fight in New York against the really dangerous champion. Yep. That was going some. It just looked like you threw punches.

You'd practice. Do you know what it was? I was just, every time I've got a win like that is when you're in a floor state, you know, you're just letting it be. And as much as the fight was entertaining and it was quite brutal at times, you know, I was comfortable in there. You're comfortable in a hard fight, can you? I was comfortable.

And to be honest, I was sat there when I was rolling the shots. I was taking her, I was giving them back, I were thinking, this is everything I've wanted a fight to be. You know, I was enjoying it.

I took his best shots and I was never in danger. I was never hurt. I was comfortable to sit there in the pot. I mean, you can be hurt. You can feel a shot without being in trouble. You know, there's a difference.

You know, you can get you with a good shot. You know it hurt you, but you weren't hurt. It's a difference. Of course. Of course. Like you see, it's like going in the show and not getting wet, you're in a fight. And especially against the opponent like Sabriel Matthias. Was he 23 stoppages in 24 wins or something stupid like that?

23 wins, 22 knockouts. That's it. Not bad, is it? Do you know what I mean? So, you know, I can hold my head eye and say, you know what? I had a shoot out with probably the most dangerous man in the division. Did you know, as you were walking to the ring and before the first bell starts, did you know, were you absolutely confident you were going to win? Did you think you would win in that style?

Did you think you would do it the way you did it? I didn't think I'd get him out as early as that. I was confident I could get the stoppage. Okay. Later in the fight? Later in the fight. But I don't know. I just think me and my dad prepared for any situation.

So I wasn't thinking I want to do this, do that. Whatever is in front of me, I want to react. Obviously, had a great first round. You know, even if I scored a fight, you could possibly score 3-1 to me. If, you know what? If not, a draw, like, level. But, I mean, If I could pick a way to win a fight

and have it in the way I did. I had the fight, it had been exactly like that Saturday. Was it one of those things, Dorn, where fighters talk about this all the time, where everything's going right, in your mind from the first round, everything you tried went right. Even though it's a competitive fight,

you're winning rounds, but they're competitive rounds, let's get it right, and he's catching him with good shots, you're catching him with good shots. But did it feel like everything you did, everything you tried worked. That's almost what it looked like.

You could put it like, yeah. You were so comfortable. In a hard fight, you were so comfortable. You could put it like that, and like I say, it was a pretty high work rate. The tank was full. I had every sense, all my senses there. And I just knew I was going to break in before he break me. And I just think probably because he said in all the buildup,

I'm going to bring the little girl out in you. I'm going to no mass tears, yeah, yeah. I just thought, when I'm there rolling the shots, he just thought, believe me, you're going to break before you break me. And that's just the thought I had in there. And at the end of each round, the first, the second, the third, the fourth, what was it like in the corner with your father, Grant? Were you both relaxed?

Because you don't want to get overconfident here. So what was the conversation like? What was he saying to you? Can you remember? From what I remember, you know, my dad was pretty relaxed. As much as it was a bit of a shoot-art. My dad was relaxed because he was reacting at the fight what we had in front of us.

And like you say, anything what Mattius threw, I had an answer for. And I think that's what broke his heart. Could you sense him? Could you sense that you were breaking his heart that you had answers to everything he did and he had very few answers to what you did? Could you sense that?

I just feel like he's used to breaking, pushing people back and breaking them down. He's a bully. He's a bully. He's a bully, yeah. He's a bully, yeah. Good bully, yeah. Good bully. One hell of a fight. Dangerous, you know, look who he's beat.

Look who he's beat him with. And I just think, I took him by surprise when I was able to put him on the back foot. Take his shot. and give him three or four more back. You know, I think that disheartened him. When it was over, and I saw that you were reunited in the dressing room, did he say anything to you?

Did he say that you surprised him in any way? I think he didn't say direct to me, but I think he said to someone, he says, I'm a happy doll and won. He says, because before the fight, I said, stand in the middle of the ring and have a fight with me. And you did? And he did exactly that and beat me at my own game. He went, so I have no excuses.

Now, the fight was not as... Sorry, Sir, sir. Do you want us to film this for you? Just because obviously when you started, their cameras weren't on. That's all right. Just, no, you're joking. Just turn them on now. This is for social.

See, we do our pods like they're live. So just get a little bit of social, two or three minutes, a couple of answers and we'll use that, yeah. Don't worry. This all stays in the pod. Trust me, you're on the pod. I think you, that was a two, if you carry on talking for another 10 seconds,

you get paid for a four minute. Seven quid. You get seven quid. Leave your details. Leave your details when you go. I'm a professional. Don't ever interrupt me like that again. It's all for the potter.

Listen, you know I'm joking. He knows I'm joking. Sorry, Dawn. I was in full flow there and I've been cut off my eyes. So he said that afterwards, did he said that about that you did exactly what he told you to do. You came in and thought you did. Now, this fight was not on and off, but it was in doubt when there was that adverse test that he took back in November. How much of a strain and a drain was that on you, Doug?

I literally took it with a pinch of salt. I really did. And obviously, we found out on Instagram when it got released. So straight away, you're thinking, oh, my God, the fight's going to be off. So for 24 hours, it was a bit up in the air. And then we got little sniffles. Look, this fight's probably still going to happen. So it says, look, is what it is.

No excuses. I says, unless anything changes, don't speak to me. That's what I said to my dad. I don't even want to know. I don't want to know. I says it doesn't change anything. I'm just going to stick to the plan of what we're set out to do. And if anything, it's just going to make it that much sweeter.

You know, bring whatever they want because I'm still going to beat them. So how was the week when you were there? How was the week? Was there any shock, surprises, anything you expected or didn't expect? They probably tried to pull a few little ones in that. But I was, you know, luckily we booked my own hotel. You know? I booked my own away from it all

just so there was no fire alarms going off. No noise, no people bumping up you in the lift, that type of stuff. Exactly, so obviously I had my own hotel and my team just left me away from it all. In the week, so in the day or two before, fight, do you like to be away from your opponent or you're one of those guys that can bump into him and see him having breakfast?

You're not bothered, are you? I could check around our breakfast way in the day before. But obviously, when the bell goes, it's a different story. When you're in the dressing room, I mean, it's one of my sort of favorite things. That moment, when you get to the dressing room, the tape's going up on the wall, you're starting to take a bit of clothing off.

Did you feel good? Did you know it was your night when you were in the dressing room? Two hours, three hours before the fight, though. Like I said before, it's the most relaxed I've ever been for a fight, the calmest I've ever felt. I don't know what it was.

It probably just, I probably knew. I don't know. Then I remember walking into the changing rooms, put the Union Jack flag up there. And I just looked around and I thought, I'm in New York, fighting for the WBC World Tower. Like, this is real.

Not an interim, the real one? Exactly, this was real. Can you remember the first world title belt you held, and whose was it? First world title belt I held was Clinton Woods. Okay. I remember Clinton was coming down to the gym. His IBF belt. His IBF belt, yeah.

He's actually wrong me today, actually. Oh, good point. I would have seen him Saturday at the Wednesday game. It will be there. Do you fish, you don't go fishing with him, do you? No. Because he does love. He's a car fisherman.

He's a bad one, apparently. Yeah. I mean, I'm not the best for fishermen, but, least we get gets us out there. But yeah, I always remember him having a picture of his IBF belt and he's like, I had the Fernando Vargas Fringe then. Yeah, yeah, he's a dick in fringe. He's a diet, yeah, blonde.

A bit blonde, and he's like pulling it and twizzing his photo somewhere. Because Clinton Woods is not the type of man that dies his hair. No, definitely not. No, definitely. You know that now. And believe me, I'm a man who wouldn't down my hair now. You wouldn't? No.

Leave the dying of hair to Sunny and Janais. Exactly. And other people. So was Clinton a bit of a role model? Or was he just, you know, because he was from Sheffield and he was, you know, but I think, you know, really straightforward character. I think all of them and, you know, Clinton's always show me support from the amateurs. Yeah.

You know, and like I said, the people who got me behind me from Sheffield, Kel, you know, obviously Prince Nazim congratulated me at the weekend as well. So it was, it was crazy. But, you know, Clinton's always been that a little one who's not really got the credit. Yeah, it never gets it. It gets overlooked. It gets overlooked. for what he achieved.

I think he deserves a lot more credit. He had some really hard, really hard fights. Even when he won the world title, he wins it on the BBC. And then the contract finishes, and six weeks later, he's defending it. He had hard opponents, Clinton. He was in some great fights,

and he was such a decent man. What's the plan? The WBC are talking about you having to maybe fight a Pulula. What's your gut feeling? What's your understanding and what do you want? There's three different categories. Whatever's the best, whatever's the biggest, and whatever he's right.

But I'll just leave that to, you know, my manager, Sean, Eddie and my dad. You know, I'll just have a bit of chill time over these next couple of week and then they'll decide what's best. And in an ideal world, whatever Big Hills were fight, is that correct? That's the top of the list for me. In an ideal world, yeah. Obviously, Adam Azim did send his congratulations to you, which was, you know, which was good of him.

That's a fight that could be built. And I think it can be a bigger fight than it is right now. You know, if you signed up to fight, I mean, it would be a bigger fight if you sign up to fight him in November assuming he does something because he's got a hard enough fight on later this month you don't mind me saying so. Yeah, of course.

Obviously, Lemos is my last sparring partner I had over. Is that right in preparation for this fight? No, preparation for the Matthew Jermain fight in March, yeah, yeah. More cheap or time. I'd lemos over, that was my main spying party. And how was he? He's a good guy, good guy. Respect to Adam. I knew he messaged me saying, good luck and that.

So I'll never bad mouth. anyone unless they're disrespectful to me. Adam can't be disrespectful. Adam can't be, exactly. And I've always said it to him, look, I want you to go on and win a world title. Of course, man. Double, double. Because it's better for us.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm not sour or bitter compared to a few of Adam's team. And credit to Adam, whenever he's been credit there, he's meant it. Yeah, no, he's a really sort of, you know, you've met him, he's really straightforward. Of course, he's straightforward. He's straightforward on his kid. It's, um. Fights of his heart as well.

Exactly. It's just there's other certain ones that were a bit bitter about it. That's the way our business works. Exactly. It's unfortunate. It's a reality in it. And that's just the way it happens. Now, there are a lot of noisy people in and around your weight. That would be a fun shopping list. All those kind of guys that are out there. I mean, the T.O's out there and who knows what Devin Hayne is doing

and who knows what he's doing and all knows what she's doing. I mean, there's about a dozen of them all for it. I mean, you had a few people compliment. You had a few people sort of throw half, you know, half-hearted challenges to you. Makes it fun. Exactly. Like you say, I've established, I'm world champion now. I'm in the driving seat and I'm ready to be a big part of those big fights.

Will you on the 31st of January go to watch Adam or will you go out to New York? To watch Shakir and At 10. Yeah, you've got to. Exactly, yeah. Be a bit cold, but who would you fancy in that fight? I'm favouring Shakoy in that one and points, but look, 50-50 fight both great fighters.

So this time last year You're thinking you're going to get a world title fight Now you've got that world title belt Where are you going to be If we're sitting down in the zone offices In the middle of January next year What would have happened in 2026 Have a little gaze into your crystal border

It'd be nice to have another world title You know another world title being in some big fights And let's just see how far we can get You know Richie Woodall tells a story And he owned the same green belt as you at Super Bowl middle and he tells a story that you're never the same again once you win a proper world title you know you're never the same it's just something inside your barry jones tells the same thing the matter you know you you are it's a special thing that's never so every night you go to bed

now for the rest of your life you're going to be a world champion and probably you're not sleeping you're still sleep with a belt aren't you obviously yeah you are not yet not yet it's under you haven't even slept you didn't you i mean i mean some fighters keep that belt really close i mean it's literally on the pillow you can't oh so what What's the first thing you do when you get back to Sheffield and you're with your family there, the ones that didn't travel over? What's playing? Anything big? They'll probably go and eat some good food, catch up on some sleep,

and then, yeah, we'll see what's after that. Dawton, this is with a pleasure talking to. Congratulations again, you were absolutely brilliant. And the finish is better than people think. You've got to watch it. You've got to watch that set up and the paws and the foot movement. It's absolutely class. Appreciate it.

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apply. It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, it's time to put my balls on the dashboard as he starts the engine. In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance unconscious. In 15 years, he's a billionaire. This is Total Wolf, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout start. of drive to survive. This week on Good Bad Billionaire, how Toto Wolf made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

So that was Dalton Smith and myself talking, and great to hear from him, but he was exhausted. And in fact, if you listen to it, you can hear his voice dropping off as we go into the 17th, 18th, 19th minute. It was an exhausting few days for him and a glorious few days.

Now, as I mentioned at the top of the show, he's back. Mike Costello's back. It's one of those Saturdays, like events where we drop him and we parachute him in. He's in his studio. He's actually in a studio and that's a delight and a pleasure. Mike, first of all, how was your Christmas?

How was your new year? Let's do the formalities first. How was your Christmas in New Year? Yeah, it's at Christmas in Manchester with the in-laws family, then back down to London for the new year. And a great result to start the new year for Dalton Smith, eh? What a way to start the year. Paddy and I were going to go, you know, Paddy and the producer and I were going to go.

But we weighed it up and we thought, you know what? I fancy Dalton would win but not the way he did not in a starly one and we thought you know what

there'd be other fights in February March April May June and I tell what it's a few days old now and I'm still kicking myself

that I didn't push him to go because it turned into what it just was it was punch perfect at the end and it was a great fight until that point

you just said there when I woke up the next morning to see the result I wasn't overly surprised that Dalton had won but I was very surprised

how he won and the type of fight that it was. Because Matthias is not difficult to hit. You don't have to go looking for him. So I thought that Dalton might well just outbox him. But to play him at his game. And it brought to mine, Steve, and I've just dragged Delon an excerpt from...

Go on, son. You've been on the show two minutes and we're having excerpts already. That's what I like. Go on, my son. Written by Andre Ward three years ago. And he talked about the build-up to his fights with Sergei Kovalev, when everybody was telling him how dangerous a puncher, Kovalev is. Which he was, which he is.

And you've got to be so fearful. And, you know, the gist of the advice was stay away. And he says here, and this is a brilliant paragraph from the book, and he says, most fighters, when they are facing big punches, are taught to stay away from the power and do everything possible to avoid it. Fighters exert a lot of energy and don't gain respect in the process. The reality is, that you will get hit.

Can you take it? At some point, you're going to have to fight so you can get their respect. He did that from the first belt. And he did, and the fights with Kovalev were quite brutal. Another man recently who did that, Joseph Parker against Deonti Wilder, him and Andy Lee came up of a ploy on the day

to match Wilder, to throw with Wilder, to take those risks that no one had done before. No one really has done since. I mean, Zhang beats him, but Zhang beats him by just catching him completely out of source. Mike, let's get back to Dalton Smith. He's talking there, and he wants to be a new Ricky Hauer, and he wants to be a populist fighter.

The WBC are really pushing Puello, the former champ, to fight him. That's another hard fight where he would be taking risk in. And Porello has said, in fact, only in the last 24 hours, he would come to Sheffield. And that's understandable because he's got no natural following. Yeah, and there's no guarantee that he wins that fight. either. I know there's all this talk of the showdown and has been for a number

of years now as their careers are running virtually in parallel about this showdown against Adam Azim. Now that might happen next year, for example, when they're both holding versions of a world title. And then it becomes a monumental affair. And I think this is a story, Dalton Smith, that's growing, Steve. You know, I'm away from

the scene now. I'm following the sport as a fan. Mostly on holiday, it turns out. That's not over here, not out. You've got one of those fat passports that Paddy's got. I think you have. Yeah, carry on. Sorry. But it is interesting. Look, I'm not active on social media, but it's interesting to watch how easy boxing can be sometimes to ignore.

But this is a story. The BBC Sport website really served it well. Now, what you're doing, he's been on talk sport, he's been on Sky Sports. The story is beginning to spread. It's beginning to move beyond boxing. And that's what he needs. And part is his father's involvement.

and his father's role, Grant. And it's this feel-good story. You know, his dad, Grant, they are now building this kind of relationship that we loved with Joe Kousaggy and Enzo Kousacki. And interestingly, just to move off at a slight tangent, one of the interviews that we did with Dalton when I was working at the Zone was a fascinating insight into their relationship.

And he said it can never be a father and son relationship like everyone else would recognize until I've retired because there's too many emotions involved. And this is a fascinating part of the whole story. You know, Grant, dad raised Alton and his two sisters as a single dad was involved in a really horrendous accident not too long ago. And has recovered from that is running a thriving gym. This is a story that could really grow. And I'm happy to say here, Steve, and we're only just barely halfway through the first month of the year.

There won't be too many better performances by any British sports star. across 2026. Given the background to this, the occasion, the size of the event, going into not necessarily the other man's backyard, but he's fought plenty of times in the United States. And from Puerto Rico, which is an American territory, the reputation of the opponent,

and his reputation as a puncher, look at the record of knockouts. All of those factors, important factors, going in as the underdog in terms of the bookmaker's odds, Not a massive underdog, similar odds, for example, to Ricky Hatton against Costa's youth. But still an underdog. Still an underdog. And, you know, he talks about as well going over to the States and staying in a hotel of his choice, not the promoter's choice.

How many times as Richie Woodall told us about when he went to Maryland to fight Keith Holmes? And they were banging on his door all night. He had to change rooms with his dad. So that they would bang on his dad's door rather than his door. And Dalton was very aware of that. And that's big to be aware of that and to act on that for your first big occasion in the United States. I thought that was really, really smart.

And that leads perfectly, Mike, into the reason why we've pulled you back from Killarney or wherever it was you were last on holiday. I have no idea where you're just wandering down streets all across Europe, especially in Ireland. And because we got to thinking, Paddy and I, that we needed to have a better look at what Doortem really achieved there, going away as an underdog. going away at challenging for a title.

And we try to put together a list. Now, there's some big ones that are always on that list. Then there's some others that need a mentor. Then there's some others that we might introduce here today. So I'd like us to do that, to look at great wins by British boxers mostly in world title fights overseas and mostly in world title fights in America,

but not exclusively, because it can be non-title fights. We've got it as a massive one that you and I were both at privileged to be out. And then there's some stuff in Europe that is so ridiculous that I honestly believe I could say to you, I could give you a history and you've actually got to decide whether it's true or false about giving you the fighters. Because it makes absolutely no sense. Let's start at the top, Mike, with a fighter that was quite close to us or quite close to us growing up. Who we both, I've boxed on the same bill as him about five times.

I'm sure you did as well. It's Lloyd Huntinger, once of the Fisher, then a Bermansey, then world champion. and his fight in 1986 for several of the World Championship belts against Donald Curry, who at the time was unbeaten, and at the time, and I can see from your magazines there, you've come loaded with stuff. At the time, wasn't just that he was a good fighter. He was considered the man that would go on,

would beat Sugar Ray Leonard, would sort out everybody, would end up fighting Durant, and had a deal on the table for excessive amounts of money, perhaps as much as 10 million, to fight Marvin Hagler. Curry and Hunnigan, Mike. Curry and Huntingham. September 1986, Stephen. This is CO magazine, which is no longer in circulation from April of 1986.

And that it's a full page photograph, head and shoulders of Donald Curry, undisputed, well-to-weight champion Donald Curry underneath the next Ray Leonard question mark. That's how big Donald Curry was in the States at the time. And that's the size of the task that Lloyd Hunnigan was facing. And we touched on it with. Dalton talking about the size of the occasion, the reputation and the record of the opponent. I'm big on, Steve, the psychological aspect of this, when you have to take on that reputation as well as the actual fighter. You're listening to people telling you how good Donald Curry is,

how hard Sebel Mathias hits, and you have to deal with that. The great phrase I heard and quote heard from Carl Frotch many years ago, Steve, when he was being dug out at a press conference and he said, it doesn't matter what they say at a press conference. It doesn't matter what they say to you, Mike, or you, Steve, in an interview. It's what they feel and how they react when they're visited by the demons of doubt when they put their head on the pillow at night. And Carl knew about demons of doubt. He had to control them every single fight.

Every single fight. That was after his battle. That's what Huntingham would have had to do in the build-up to Donald Curry with everybody telling him how great a fighter he was about to face. And Steve, from a personal point of view, I know I've told you this story before. I may even have told this on the podcast before, but on the Saturday morning in London,

I was on a coaching course at the Lion Club in Hoxton. At the time, Terry Edwards, who would later become G.B. Olympic coach was the London Regional coach. And he had some boxes there, and he was teaching us about groundwork. And basically, it was part of a coaching course. Another one of the coaches there was Steve Heiser from the Fisher,

where you saw, and you boxed on the same bills as Lloyd, where he boxed in the colours, the black and white of the Fisher Club, as an amateur. And we were talking, at the end of the course, we were talking as a group, and pretty much,

I'm going to say this, dismissing any chance of Hunnigan winning in 12, 15 hours time or whatever it was. And Steve Heiser said, he is the most confident, self-assured,

obstinate, sometimes horrible creature I've ever had in the gym. So don't dismiss what he might do tonight. Don't have any fears about him being mentally ready because he is so, so tough. And he pushed us all onto the back foot saying,

I'm not telling you he's going to win, but believe me, do not dismiss him in the way that you are doing. And that perfectly runs into a Mickey Duff quote when him and Lloyd Hunnigan were estranged, but still they still had their managerial contract. And Mickey Duff famously said something along the lines and there's nothing in a contract that says I have to like him. And I think that was absolutely.

I think that was absolutely true. Anyway, it finished. I mean, the stats are quite scary. 20 stitches in his left eyebrow, a stitch in his lip and a broken nose. And Curry was battered and beat it. And he was a 7-to-1 underdog, if I'm not mistaken, because Mickey Duff had had $5,000 bet on it, and he walked away, if I'm not mistaken.

I've got it in there, 37-5 grand. Hannigan got his 5 grand on a bit later, got less because the odds are trunk. And then, I'm reliably told, demanded that the difference was paid by Mickey Duff. So Mickey Duff had to lose some of his share to give it. It was a night that was sensational. And I've got to be honest with you.

I like to do things back to about the early 60s. It's about as good as it gets for a British boxer, massive underdog, against the giant, going overseas, against it completely and winning. And then what's more, and this is often overlooked, and there's another little cattery. You listed all the things that need to be against the boxer, the odds need to be against him,

the location needs to be. against him, the fact that the other guy's destined for greatness and generally unbeaten or as close to unbeaten, those are all against him. And how about if I add to that, Mike, a little caveat that what the guy goes on to do later? And he does go on to win another version of a world title, Cary, at a weight up.

So, Mike, I've got no problem putting Lloyd Hunigan and his win over Donald Cary well into this list. Now, I'd like to say we're doing 10. I'd like to say we're doing five. But the way podcasts work this time, I mean, when you went off to Kalani about seven and a half years ago, podcasts were two hours long, like a long stroll for a coffee down Kalani High Street.

Well, not anymore. The podcast were a bit shorter, so we might only get three. In fact, the way we go, we might only get one and a couple of anecdotes. Just one last line, Steve. I'm always bounding in and I can see Paddy shaking, you said, but just very quickly, I don't care. I've also got a coffee from 1986 of the Ring Magazine from December 1986. Treadful cover.

Now, when you contemplate how we consume the media now, how quickly we find out that Dalton Smith has beaten Sebel Matthias. Here we are. Now, I'm not saying this was the first notice of it, but this is the Ring Magazine from December 1986. The fight took place in September 1986, and the headline, The Weekend that shook the boxing world. That's how long it took to get into print in a magazine.

Now, I know Boxing News, for example, would have done it the following week. I get that, but just the different media landscape back then and how hard it was to break through. Well, Mike, I wonder, how long it took for this next fight to reach not just the British public but certainly the boxing public and I'm going back to 1970

Paddy's rolling his eyes again I don't care because this to me tops even Donald Curry and Lloyd Hunnigan. I'm talking Ken Buchanan going out to fight Panama's Isma Laguna who was the massive lightweight world champion it had been for years it was in Puerto Rico it was in 110 degrees of heat they were given the corner

Ken Buchanan and his father in the rest of the corner team they were given Eddie Thomas they We're given the corner in the sunshine for the entire fight. Tommy, Ken's dad, had to go and get a parasol from a woman at ringside, and they used that in the corner. It was a genuinely amazing fight. Have you ever seen clips of this, Mike, and you've seen that famous picture I posted. Ken gave me a picture from his phone.

I don't care about name dropping. Ken gave me a picture from his phone of him sitting after the fight. I thought it was after he lost the Duran. It's a black and white picture of him sitting naked. He's got his elbows on his fires. And he looks like he's lost about three kilos, four kilos, five kilos, six kilos away. He looks emaciated. And that was after that 15-round win.

And I've stuck that in. And I don't think anybody can disagree with that. It was the American boxing writers fight of the year. It's a sensational fight. And what's also might, this is what I didn't realize. Let me give you this. This is the sort of stuff I love, okay? What I really didn't realize, right?

was in 1970. At the start of the year in 1970, Ken goes to Spain and loses a European title fight, 15 rounds. Then he has a fight in a private members club. Then he defends his British lightweight title. Then he gets on a plane to New York for a week of press conferences where they're completely insulted. Then they fly to Puerto Rico. So basically, it's come from Edinburgh to Puerto Rico. Now, this is 1970. That is an exotic shift that doesn't exist in 2026. And he told me, Steve, in an interview that I did with him. It's the name-dropping half hour. This is back in 2009. I remember because we were making a documentary on Five Live about life after boxing. And he told me that the previous year in 1969, he'd actually retired.

He'd gone back to Carpentry. He said, I was down to my last few quid and I couldn't afford to keep waiting for this chance that wasn't coming my way. And suddenly he gets beaten in the European title fight. So Lagoon. as people think, well, this will be an easy defense, let's drag over this. Whiteer than white man, who was almost sunburned at 2 o'clock in the afternoon in San Juan, and then

produced a remarkable performance. And, you know, we spoken about Dalton Smith and about Lloyd Hannigan against those opponents. And another one of the key factors is how they won. You know, it wasn't as if they picked a move, picked to move, even though that was Buchanan's

type of style. He made a really confident start. Then he had some very rough moments, you know, in the middle rounds of a 15 round fight and then came back to finish strongly. And you look at that. The fight, strangely, only appeared on YouTube and elsewhere about five years ago. And that was the first I saw it. Like so many fights from the 70s and even some of the 80s ones. I've talked to you, you and I've talked about this before.

People at the moment are so lucky. I don't want to sound like that group of Monty Python guys sitting around talking about living in a puddle. You're lucky to have a puddle. Not that conversation. But it's so true. There were fights from the 70s that I still haven't seen that I've written about, that I've talked about.

There are fights like that. And this is one of them. When I first saw this maybe four or five, maybe six years ago, about the time that I got to know Ken and spent a bit of time with Ken, then you watch it, the 45 minutes of boxing. It's a draining experience watching it, Mike. And let alone being part of that,

in the afternoon of the heat of a country like that, for a man who, like I say, was whiter than white, you know, and would have got somber during the course of the fight. And again, you watch and you see, and it's so dramatic when you watch that the shade, and they deliberately chose that corner, the shade is in Laguna's corner.

Massive difference. That glaring sunlight is beaming down on Buchanan's corner. It's a savage turnout. And then when he gets back with a W, it's a WBA trophy, not a belt. Ken explained that to me, because I'd said to him, So when you got back with the bell, he gets back to his house.

There's only six people at the airport, including his son and including his wife. So there's four other people at the airport to greet him when he comes back. And he gets a phone call. He gets two phone calls that day. One is from the border control telling him that they will not recognize him as a world champion because they only recognize the WBC, which had been formed eight years earlier. So he wasn't recognized as a world champion in Great Britain. And the other phone call was from Jack Solomon's, the promoter, saying,

Ken and he did it he was a master of good voices Ken Buchanan actually he wasn't he was useless but every every voice he did had a massive Scottish accent but he was trying to do Jack Solomon's a Londoner talking to him on the phone said Ken there's an offer on the table and he did the chugging on a cigar

for Madison Square Garden so he goes back to Madison Square Garden later that year where I believe he fights an unbeaten Canadian who's the Canadian World Warweight Champion and what happens at that fight Mike the famous story you know what happens at that fight I'm not trying to catch her out when he split the dressing room with Muhammad Ali. So he gets a knock on the door.

Let me just do this. So Ken opens the door, right? He's back now. This is like his fifth fight of the year. He's back. He's in Madison Square Garden. He's topping the bill. There's a support guy called Muhammad Ali.

He's in a supporting contest. So he gets a knock on the door, opens the door. It's Angelo Dundee saying, hi, hi, Ken. I wonder if we could share your dressing room. They didn't get my guy a dressing room. So, of course, Ken says absolutely.

No sweat at top. He loves Ali. Ali then comes in. And Ken, so the way Ken tells us stories, Ali comes in and Ken's putting tape from his bandages across the floor. Then he explains to Ali that's your side and this is my side. What a year. If ever there was a year in boxing, it was 1970 for Ken Buchanan.

And one of Ali's people started smoking. That's right. And Buchanan chewed him out. Chewed him out. I knew there was a smoking slough. So Ken Buchanan against this, Malagun, if you've not seen it, please do. Mike, let's bring it up to date a little bit because I was, We could do John Straes against Naples.

We'll do him in a moment. I'm going to throw two Tyson Fury fights in there. And I think both of them, if I'm not mistaken. I was definitely both of them. Against Van der Meer Klitsko, Dusseldorf, 2015, when there were 50,000 in that football stadium, something is often forgotten. And then the second fight with Deonti Wilder in Las Vegas in 2020,

when he stops him in the 7th. I'm going to put those two in. Now, I'm not absolutely. certain that in the second fight Fury was a betting underdog. But at best he was evens. At best he was evens, Mike. He was the underdog

against Vladimir, but we both fancied him. We both really fancied him. When it was over, I famously said look, he might not have got this because I think to beat Vlad or a Klitsko in Germany you've got to really beat them, which he had. Can I have those two in? Can they go in as one?

Absolutely. And there's a little cameo from that fight against Vladimir Clitchco Steve, we were there all week and it was a fascinating buildup and I was trying to guess how calm Tyson Fury was there was one particular gathering with the media in a hotel room

where him and his friends were kind of lobbing stuff around it was like a boy's holiday and this was the Thursday before the fight on the Saturday and I was just wondering is this is this all too relaxed? Does it mean enough to him and on the night he produces this performance now a lot of people said that the fight was tedious but

It needed to be for Fury to win it. It was gripping but tedious. Yeah, absolutely, because you... You can take your eyes off it. Waiting for Clitchco perhaps to land. But there was a cameo, Steve, in the second round, halfway through the second round, when they come together, and they're waiting, or Fury's waiting for the referee to separate them,

the referee doesn't. Fury taps Clitchco on the backside. Basically says, come up, mate. Let's split up. Let's get on with this. Now, this was a fella who'd had fewer fights than Clitchco had had. World title fights. And there he was in control in the second round, completely

at home on the biggest occasion of his life, as you say, 50,000. In what was, let's be honest, Klitsko's adopted home country of Germany. He was massive in Germany. They used to get three quarters of the entire viewing audience. They were an industry. They delivered millions and millions of euros

to each city they fought in both brothers. And going on to, you know, you're talking about the second fight against Deonté Wilder. going back to that paragraph in the book from Andre Ward about taking it to the puncher. See what the puncher can do. Look what happened when those were brave enough

took it to Mike Tyson. And I would say that was the second fight, but the first fight, which ended in a draw in December of 2018, I mean, it's one of these standout performances by a British boxer that I've ever seen. Because he had almost a thousand days away from the ring. Since then, he fought Sephard.

Saferi, who he, you're going to say, Francesco Pianetta, and then he fights Deonté Wilder. I remember when it was announced, we were saying, third fight in, what's going on? Clever moved by Wilder and clever moved by Shelley Finkel, is what we, I remember when we're talking about that in Belfast in the summer, because the second fight was in Belfast,

the outdoor when Carl Franton was defending somewhere. And, you know, such a student of heavyweight history was talking about, well, Ali did it, third fight back, you know, when he boxed Joe Frazier, didn't beat Joe Frazier, but went for the big one, third fight back, so I'm Quarian had the fight of his life, whereas you came against Sifafiri.

And then Oscar Bonavina. And you picked him up, yeah. Duh. Yeah. So, Mike, we will go back to the list in a moment. We will get back into the ones which I would consider the A list. Now, however, there are another 7, 8, 9, 10 that I've got to go through quickly. And all of these, we could both make a strong case for including.

I'm going to discard them slightly, and that's not disrespectful, especially as one or two of them are friends of mine. So we've got to be a bit careful. Let's start in no particular order. 2013, Darren Barker, Atlantic City, IBF middleweight title against Daniel Gill, split decision, that point in when he gets dropped with a body shot and he has a vision of his dead brother, Gary, that helps him get up and win.

Eddie Hearn's first world champion, if I'm not mistaken, a memorable night. Am I right to not include this in the top four? This is a case, Steve. You know, you're going to get blowback whatever you include or don't. Yeah. But this is the kind of fight the next year

you might end up including it. You feel differently about it. But this is an underrated win, I think, because Gil was making his fifth defence. So, you know, established champion. And that comeback. The plume in Germany, by the way. In Germany. That body shot that flawed Darren, I mean, how he got up.

And, you know, emotionally he talked about his brother Gary who died in a car crash and how it was the memory of Gary that lifted him back to his feet. Mike, so 2008, Joe Kalsaki in Las Vegas, Bernard Hopkins. I think it was the IBO light heavyweight title, if I'm not mistaken. not quite sure that Calzaki was an underdog, but hey, you know, it was a point-split decision. And what's more, Hopkins went on after this to win two legitimate versions of the world,

not one, but twice to win legitimate versions of the light heavyweight title. Am I right to just lodge this to the side? Just to the side, but it's important that you make that point, Steve, as we did with Buchanan and with Lloyd Hinegan. What they go on to do afterwards, sometimes underpins how strong the case is. 2009 Carl Frotched Jermaine Taylor

Okay, a fight I didn't go to you did Foxwoods Carl's trading on two of the three score cards There's 15 seconds left on the clock And he vanages to drop Jermaine Taylor and stop him 14 seconds Jermaine Taylor's legs were directly above me

in my commentary position and I saw them wilt and it was incredible one of the most dramatic commentaries I've ever been part of fantastic So we like that as a dramatic fight and unbelievable we're not including on our list

even though Jermaine did go on and win another version of the world title And Carl went on too. And Carl went to it. This is one fight that I did. I interviewed Ricky up in the ring after this. 2007, a summer fight. Jose Luis Castillo against Ricky Hat.

And I think it was the IBO like World 2-8. Now what's interesting is that Castillo was on a decent run. A decent run. But Ricky was a big favourite, wasn't he, going into that fight? He was and had to give up his world title beforehand because he was pushing for the fight down the line, which happened against Mayweather. It happened because of that result.

And whenever anybody calls up best body shot, finishes in the history of boxing. That one comes up. And some people say best post-fight interview that I did in the ring when I had Wayne Rooney up in the ring and the guy was saying to me, no, no, and I'm whispering, and I'm pushing my butt and saying, no, this is Wayne Rooney. I had Wayne Rooney on my shoulder. Ricky's talking to Rooney,

not talking to me, and they asked me to get out of the ring. I had Wayne Rooney there. Wayne's still not spoken to me about it. It's not over here, not there. I'm not bitter, Mike. 2021, behind closed doors, Josh Taylor against Ramirez. Now, this is interesting. Both World Championships, it was undisputed. Was he an underdog then?

Because I seem to think that I fancied him to win. But that's a good one. And had we all been at it, maybe it would have been pushed onto the list, possibly. And had it been at a different time. Yes. Might have had more resonance for sure. But that included a really, really clever knockdown where they were kind of in a clinch. And he just nudged Ramirez forward and then clipped him with an uppercut.

And in the end, the two knockdowns turned out to be really, really important. But a brilliant win. And it has to, again, when we're talking about magnitude, the occasion. And what's at state, Steve, this was undisputed. you know that that's a hard one to nudge aside yeah well i've nudged it uh 1997 you know where i'm going with this manison square garden stand up if you don't mind me saying so frank warren said it set box office records for featherweights at the garden nassim hammid against kevin kelly kevin kelly only lost once in 50 fights and and as one of our one of our members and press media

guys said you know what the art of the fight in irish are like they always they always perform in new york kevin kelly was not irish that's the joke you'll get the joke if you ever pull up at this film I count there were about nine knockdowns in this fight I think it was five and four If a glove touching the floor is a knockdown Then there was about nine NAS went down at least five times Maybe six, Kelly at least four or five times

Finished in the fourth round It was sensational Incredible That was a stop That was a hold the back page moment In New York especially And that built the NAS story In the US

Because it was happening at Madison Square Garden And on the undercard A young man CUNIN Having his second professional fight Ricky Hatt And I believe Danny Williams Might have been on the undercard as well If I'm not mistaken

I think he might have been I'll double check that. James deGal, Andre Derell. Now, this is an interesting fight because at first I was looking at this thinking, no way. But now I'm looking at this. There's a lot of fat little bits and pieces attached to this.

Yeah, and this is a landmark fight because James DeGale had won Olympic gold and therefore becomes the first British boxer ever to add a world title in the professional ranks to Olympic gold. Personally, for me, I was commentating in 2015 when he wins the world title. I was covering the athletics at the Olympics in Beijing,

but did get to see him winning the gold medal. So a massive feat. The first to do it, I always talk about sporting feats, Steve, should be measured on a scale of rarity. If it hasn't been done, it must be difficult to do. He was the first Brit to do it. Yeah, so I'm not going to have him in,

but that's not a bad one. And then this is one, 1999, Lennox Lewis twice for Evander Holyfield, the first draw, controversial draw in New York earlier in the year, and then the rematch in eight months later in Thomas and Mac in Las Vegas, which Lennox wins. But I thought the rematch was unbelievably close. Like, I thought the rematch, I'm going to whisper it.

I thought the rematch was closer than the first fight. You've just stolen my memories of that, Steve. Exactly that, the second fight, which Lewis got, to me, was tighter than the first fight at Madison Square Garden. And then, again, difficult to nudge aside because it was the heavyweight division. They were massive events. Fights that, you know, they move across into the description of event. They're not just fights, they're events. And that's why they're hard to nudge aside.

I guess it's more that Lewis was based in the United States and in Canada. And so that's, you know, it's slightly different. And there wasn't that going into the backyard kind of, you know, the kind of aura around the fight. So, yeah, because he'd been in those places already. Now, what I'd like to do here is do about another seven or eight, but we're not. I tell what I am going to do, though.

I'm going to jump away, if I can, to a couple of non-title fights, okay? I know it doesn't quite fit the bill, but you'll understand why I'm doing it. Do you want to do Danny Williams first or do you want to do Kurt and Lang first? Which one do you want to do first? Well, let's start with the author you gave them. Danny Williams, Louisville, Kentucky.

That was so important for me and you to go there. The fight was almost, I don't know, could have come home on the Friday afternoon. It was the case of going to Muhammad Ali's hometown. And we were taken on this trip out there by Steve, the driver, took us out to the family home. The unluckiest driver. in the history of Louisville taxi drivers.

We may get to tell the story, but we may not. Knocked on the door and the young girl came out. She was telling us about how her friends all wanted to come and do their homework there because it was the home of the great Muhammad Ali. He sat on the steps where Rachman Ali's brother said he and Big Brother used to play marbles. Marbles. Yeah, just a fabulous trip. And then on the night, a much better fight than many expected. I used the phrase at the time.

It's a great line this. It wasn't the Mike Tyson of 1986. but for a round and a half it was the Mike Tyson of 1996 and Danny Williams took a real shellacking and came back and won that and again adding in a personal note Steve I remember Danny Williams walking in with his mother the first night he walked into the Lynn Boxing Club my club in south-east London when he was a young kid and Jim McDonnell I boxed as an amateur so Jim was in his corner with Danny

and they came up to my room I had the broadcasting equipment in my hotel room and they came up the next morning to do stuff in all sorts of BBC programs. So that was a really special occasion. You know I particularly love about what we've done here today is that we've managed to make things personal. So whether it's just me name dropping that Ken Buchanan shared a picture, a private picture from his phone, or the Lloyd Hunnigan connection or the Danny Williams connection.

I do particularly like that. Mike, okay, I'm going to ask you just a quick question. Danny Williams and Mike Tyson, there was a problem with the money, if you remember rightly, which I'd forgot. until I reread my book. It's not a plug. I'm just telling you a fact. Do you remember what the promoter's job was?

The promoter was a guy called Chris Webb. Do you remember what his daytime job was? No. He was a male stripper. And as I said to Andy Aalian who counted a money, hope you had a pair of gloves on, son. Well, let's get to Curtin Lang. Now, you know why I'm going to do Curtin Lang.

Curtin Lang, Detroit, 1988, against Roberta Duran. Now, too many people. Keep thinking, oh, Roberta Duran was finished. No, Robert Duran had just lost his world title over 15 rounds to Afrido Benitez. Within 11 months, he would win a world title in front of 20,000 people of Madison Square Garden. 11 months later, he'd make $10 million for fighting Marvin Hagler and pushing Hagner to full 15 rounds. But one night in 1982, Kirkland Lang got paid 10,000 pounds and he beat the Great Duran.

And that fight is another fight that I didn't see until about 10 years ago. It's incredible, Mike. It's incredible. It's one of the greatest wins on the road by a British fighter at any level in any fight. It does. And again, it was the manner of the win, Steve. There was such confidence, given the reputation of the man that he was facing,

you know, who had so many great wins already. And we'd go on to do, as you said, would go on to push Marvin Hagler. You know, one of the great, in my book, the greatest lightweight that ever boxed was taking one of the great middleweight champions. Two of the greatest fighters of all time. All the way over 15 rounds. Brilliant performance by Kirkland Lang.

The kind of performance, so many people were telling us around that time that this kid was capable of. If only he would drag it out. Brilliant quote in your book, I'll give you a book a plug. Go on, sir. Where he says, I cared so much about this fight. I was so keyed up for this fight.

I left off the drugs. It meant so much to me. I didn't smoke a joint. I had to water down whatever he said to me. I would just pour half a cup of cold water in it, Stephen, say if it had been a world title fight, Roberto Durand may well have brought more to the ring. That's all I would say.

But I've spent some time with Duran a couple of times when he's been up at basketball with Scott Murray. And let me tell you something. Durant talks about that fight because he has to really put his foot down after about five or six rounds. And he does go. And it's brutal.

It's a great. That's the thing that's overlooked about. It's a great fight, Mike. Mike, now I'm going to let you do one more. What do you want to do? Do you want to do Kelbrook, Sean Porter, or do you want to do Stacey against Jose Napolice? What do you want to do?

Can I even steal another one, please, Steve? Of course you can. Stick one in. It's a losing performance, and that's what might be different. I bet I know what you're going to do. Where am I going? Where am I going? I'll let you do it. It's Pat Cowdale against Salvador Sanchez in Houston.

15. For the world featherweight title. He took him to a split decision. The reason I say this, Steve, is I could be persuasive. that Salvador Sanchez, had he lived, could have been, not just the greatest Mexican ever, he might have been close to the best fighter that ever lived. I know that's a bit of a statement.

Pat Caldell took him to a split decision. This is a man who'd beaten Wilfredo Gomez, the hero to many, who would go on, again talking about what they do afterwards, who would go on and beat Azuma Nelson. Madison Square Garden. Azum and Nelson had never lost. Wilfredo Gomez had never lost.

Salvedo Sanchez became the first man to beat both of those just days after beating Azuma Nelson he gets killed in a road accident at the age of 23 just because I knew I was coming on here once Paddy got in touch I watched that fight again Salvo Sanchez against Wilfredo Gomez there's a ridiculous amount of skill in that fight

but it just reminds me having beaten Gomez and who he was what he was that Sanchez what would he have been dead at 23 is just tragic there's an extra 10 we could do on British fighters in losing fights overseas that they came close to winning.

Then there's another 10 on British fighters that were massively, massively overmatched overseas and managed to survive two rounds. You know what you're talking? I'm thinking of what of all this is Paddy going to cut? Nothing. Nothing. He won't touch, this is sacrosan.

He won't touch a word of this. But Kellbrook against Sean Porter, 2014, was an unbelievable win by Kelbrook, a majority decision, tight decision, but I thought Brooke won it quite comfortably. The John H. Stracey against Jose Napoli, it's worth a show all on its own. There's 42,000 people in a ball ring. John H. Stacey goes down there to fight the greatest Mexican Cuban fighter of all time.

And as Terry Lawless in the corner is walking back down the steps, he hears a scream, he turns round. And John Strasie is on the canvas inside 10 seconds. He eventually stops him in about six rounds. Mike, we could go on all night. I've got a Jimmy Cable one that I wanted to drop on you because you wouldn't have believed it. But we can do that. Just 10 seconds, Steve, heading back to Stacey. 30 seconds?

I watched the fight back, again, when Paddy got in touch, and just watching Stracey peppering with the left hand. And I only found out recently, like within the last year, that Stracey was left-handed. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah. That's why that big, heavy. His left-aw.

He's a big, heavy left-off. Just like Dula Hoyer and others who fought with their strongest hand, leading with the strongest hand. You're doing a night with Stracey in February. You should come up to it because he's full of great story. I mean, he's got 90 minutes of great stories, Stras. I mean, great stories. On the way back from Mexico City after that fight,

they divert with Mickey Duff to New York, where they offer him a fight against Roberta Duran. And Stacey says, I'm stupid, but ain't that stupid, Mickey. I ain't that stupid. And also, Mike, the mad thing is, I think that was his 47th fight. 47th fight. He was topping the bill at the Royal Albaal,

six and seven, eight, and nine times a month. A cynic might say, he was being used because of his ticket selling power and being held off. That's what a cynic might say. I'm not a cynic. Steve, when he won the world title, I was 15. I went up to Hamley's on Regent Street, which is the only place I knew that printed T-shirts.

No way. And I had the union flag with John H above it and Stacey beneath him. It's massive. idolised him. You know, that was kind of my peak boxing career when I was pushing and pushing and pushing. Everything in my life was boxing then. Did you have his white and orange gold of boots?

Oh, no. Oh, man. I knew someone that had a pair and he used to get them out and you'd literally hold them. He'd give them to you like a... like a nurse giving a father of his baby for the first time. The closest ever came was just holding a bit. Mike, okay, we are, before we say goodbye,

we're going to have to put, let's just do five. Hopefully it's five we've talked about once we look a bit stupid. How are you going? One, two, you can reverse all over one. Let's count down then. What I'll do, Steve, I've got a list of wins and a list of performances.

They're very similar. So counting down the wins. Yeah. Number five, then, Alan Minter, number four, Kurt and Lang. Number three, Hamad because of the impact. Number two, Lennox Lewis,

because it was the undisputed heavyweight title, and number one is Hunnigan, beating Donald Curry. So performances, I've got Tyson Fury, the second fight against Wilder, number five. Curtin Lang, again number four, Lennox Lewis, number three.

Pat Cowdale, that losing performance was stunning, number two. And the number one performance overseas of all time for me is Lloyd Hunnigan beating Donald Curry, September 1986. Well, I've got no problem with Hunnegan at number one, and I've got no problem with, say, with Danny Williams at number four or five. I think you've got a Buchanan in there. You know what?

We can't agree. We can't agree. We've got seven into five. Actually, I contradicted myself because I wrote a piece on the BBC Sport website saying that that was the best performance overseas. So like I said earlier on, sometimes you feel differently today, as you will next week. We've got nine into five. We'll leave it at that. They're in there somewhere.

Mike, it's been an absolute pleasure and I'd like to have you back. Great to be back, mate. And you get all the blowback next week and I won't. Yeah, that's the truth. Oh, what a list to put together. What a start to the year

and it gets even busier. I'm Steve Bans, and this is Five Live Boxing. Five Live Sports. Let's get the show on the road on Rod Laver Arena. Good morning, good evening from Melbourne. The Australian Open. How are they both feeling the nerves, the tension,

What's at stake. Unbelievable. What a rise. Between now and the end of the tournament, we will bring you a daily pod recapping the biggest stories and the best of the action on the All About Australian Open feed.

The Australian Open 26. Join us for our live coverage on tennis breakfast every morning from 7am on 5 Sports Extra and BBC Sounds.