5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Dalton’s Defence and The Young Heavies

Episode Date: October 23, 2026

Is Dalton Smith facing one of the toughest homecomings in boxing history? Richie Woodhall joins Buncey to preview Smith’s first defence of his super lightweight world title against Alberto Puello. Dalton himself joins the pod to reflect on his unforgettable title-winning night in New York and the challenge that lies ahead. We also hear from Leo Atang, one of Britain’s brightest young heavyweight prospects. And with the dust finally settling on Daniel Dubois’ devastating victory over Fabio Wardley, did Wardley’s decision to take the rematch so soon prove a costly mistake?

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret, of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Seward.

Secrets, Catching My Teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. Sheffield, the Steel City. Well, it's also a world champion boxing city. Nassim Hammett, Johnny Nelson, Clinton Woods, Ryan Rose, Junior Witter was based here. Top fighters. They've given us some great fights.

they've given us some great nights. Now, there's Doughton Smith. I spoke to him. I'm now going to go inside the English Institute of Sport and speak to one of the G.B trainers, Ritchie Woodall, bear in mind, Ritchie is based here because this is where GB boxing's based.

Sheffield, it's more than just still. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. In Sheffield, Alberta Puello, former world champion. In fact, he held a couple of belts against Doughton Smith. daughter Smith making the first defence of his WBC super lightweight

or in old money light well to wait tied to well going to New York to beat Sebreu and Matthias back in January was good enough and Richie and I are going to talk about that because we're starting to think it was even better than we first fall and then having as your so-called homecoming an easy touch is that this might be the hardest ever homecoming for any world champion ever in his actual hometown

we'll discuss that in a minute but with Richard Woodall Richie, we've got to go back to last Saturday when you and I were ringside at the O2, capacity crowd, 5 minutes 21 of absolute ridiculous, raw violence. And that's the only way to describe it. Fabio Wardley, not at the races, as they say in the trade. Outgunned from the very opening bill, dropped, nearly stopped at the end of the first round,

stopped finally. Tau came in and Steve Greeter referee was going in after 2 minutes 21 of the second round. Daniel Dubois, and you said it perfectly. You said he thought like the man who was the challenger, not the champion. He fought with a hunger and a desire that caught all of us out. Have you had time to process it a little bit more of it? Because our reactions are immediate on Firelight, aren't they?

Yeah, of course they are. I have had time to process it, actually, Steve. And listen, it was a great performance from Daniel. He fought the way, like we said, as a challenger, and he fought really hungry, and it was a great performance. looking at it now we question well we didn't actually question

whether it was actually too early from the first contest which had been five months early which was a brutal fight which was absolutely brutal fight but when you look at it now was it too early yes it probably was a little bit

too early five months even when Lennox lost to Hassim Rackman in 2001 he fought him seven months later he fought him in the April and he got beaten and then he fought him again in the November

and the argument that wasn't a hard fight he just got hit one on the chin. Exactly, you know, so that was seven months. This was five months. And like I said, I'm not taking away nothing from Daniel because he did the job and he did it superbly well. But I've looked at the contest since

and I've looked at the first one again, the first contest, and, you know, there were right hands in that first contest that looked similar to the one that he took when he actually got stopped, that first big one that he got caught. After 17 and 18 seconds. And, you know, he got through it in that first contest.

It never wobbled. But this time, Steve, he didn't recover from that one, that one shot. I've watched it time and again. And now when I look back at it, five months for me just wasn't enough for Fabio to recover from a fight like that. But let's give credit to Daniel a great performance. I know one thing. It's going to the debate over whether it was too soon, how good Dubois was, and actually how bad Wardley was is going to continue.

There are even people that, you know, maybe... But you know what, Steve? Can I just say? after the first fight, I remember us doing the pod after the first fight when it was a brilliant night. And we said then, I remember us saying it that you might never recover from a fight like that. Absolutely.

We said that at the time. And we just didn't take that into consideration the other night. We didn't even mention it. And what we should have done is we should have dug that up and used that because you're so right. And that's something I'm big on there when I see guys in unbelievably hard fight. Sometimes they're never quite the same again.

Doesn't mean their careers are over, but they may never ever get to where they were on that particular life. And that might be the case with Fabio Ward. Because we were all expecting another performance like that. We're all expecting blood and thunder and people taking big, big punches and getting through it. But it just didn't.

He just didn't do it. He got caught early. He never recovered from him. Not even slightly. You know, and he more or less accepted the defeat, although the towel coming, there's something other. Whereas in that first contest, He took punt

It took right hand after right And he got through it every time He just something about his desire And Will got him through it This time it was accepted And listen I'm not criticising him In no way shape or form Because the lad is such a brave

Gutsy fight He's a brilliant fighter Fabio Wardley But it just wasn't his night But I just think looking back now Steve I really believe Five months just wasn't enough mate There was a fight As we like to say

In old Fleet Street terms That story my son has got legs and it has because that is not going away. It was nine months ago. The Dalton Smith traveled to New York to the Barclay Centre in Brooklyn to fight Sabriel Matias. Now, he was a big underdog.

He was away from home. It was freezing cold. And he did an absolute job. Rolling the dice, taking it to Matias, fighting away, maybe shouldn't have fought and coming away

with a fifth round knockout victory. And he looked sensational. Now, Rich, I don't just think it was a good win overseas. I think it was one of the great wins overseas, and it's maybe been forgotten. I know he's had a couple of injuries this year. That's why it's taking him nine months to get back in the ring. But that was a superb victory, Rich.

I know it was really early in the year. It was an incredible win. What a win that was, Steve. You know what? If you look at Sabreo-Matteis, Mattias, his record, going into that fight, he had something like 22-23 knockouts. And he was nasty with it,

And he was... Incredible. He was talking about doing the same thing. He was dismissive. Of course. He was a little bit aggressive for the pre-fight stuff. Yeah, I mean, it is gone off the radar, really, because you have to rank that up alongside some of the greatest ever British world title wins abroad.

You've got to. Because if you look, I did a bit of research, Steve, and there's not many British fighters that have actually won world title fights in New York. There's probably five or six. Jack Kidd, from the 1930s. You're looking at Ken Buchanan in 71. But that wasn't a win, was it?

That was a defence when Ken moved into Manifus Square Garden. It was a defence. He's defended his title. Callum Smith had a defence in 2019. But it was a fairly easy one. I mean, I'm not nice. DeCham. You get it right, I won't.

And then even Joe Calzaggy's great win against Roy Jones in about 2008. That's for the ring bell. It's not plaster as a will tile. It was up at light heavy. Look at Light Heavy. Then you've got Dalton. I mean, it's an incredible victory.

Like I say, that's got to rank up there with the great fights like John H. Tracy, Jose Napoli. Yeah, Mexico City, 75 December. You've got even Lloyd Honegans. It's one of those. But not many people speak about it. It's gone off the radar. But what a win.

Considering the opponent, Matthias, he had 22 knockouts in about 23 contests, something like that. A nasty knockouts. Yeah. You know, what a good fight. was what a win for Dalton Smith. Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant. Just before I came and sat with Richard here in the English Institute of Sports was on the other side of Sheffield and I grabbed hold of went to see Dawson and had a little chat with him and anyone who's been listening to this pod for the last nine years knows

that I don't like doing long interviews with fighters in Fight Week. I'm a bit old-fashioned like that, not old-school, old-fashioned. I think fighters, they've done all their work in the last hundred or hours before a fight they need to just prepare for the fight. However, the way the modern media business works, you get to sit with fires.

So I did sit with Dalton for about six or seven minutes. And I started by talking to him about that night and how he'd had to really take unbelievable risks. Exactly. But Steve, throughout my career, I've proved I can box. And there was always that question one, but can Dalton fight? You know what I mean? So I've ticked that box. So people know I can box for 12 rounds.

And box well. And box well. I've already ticked that off. But also, if Dalton needs to stand and bite down on the gum shield, they can do that. So I think I've proven whatever's in front of me, I can adapt to. And when we were out in New York last summer, when you bought that fancy suit, you remember you bought that fancy shorts, very smart, son. And you watched that fight, Puello and Matias, which was a brutal, brutal fight.

Before it was over, before the winner was announced, which one of the two did you want? Be honest. Did you want Matthias or did you want Puello? Who did you want that night? Stylistic otherwise, we was thinking Pueo. But when you're fighting for a world title and at the top of the game, you fight anyone. So it shows I can adapt. And like you said, Pueo is no stranger to me.

I've seen, I've seen, been up close, personal, seeing him. So we've prepared well for this. Now, when you got in the ring with Matthias that night at Barclay's Centre, you were the underdog. You were fighting a guy that was essentially fighting at home. and you were going to go in and prove to people that you could go in and fight.

But you also looked amazingly at peace. You looked calm walking to the ring. I wasn't out there and I'm annoyed myself because I nearly got that package. But you look so calm and so confident going into the ring. Exactly. And it's because I train hard. I do everything right.

I believe in myself. And that's why I walked to a ring confident and calm. You've got to block out the outside noise. Even though you knew you were going to be basically breaking away from your comfort zone. Of course, because I was prepared. And as soon as I step through the ring,

I'm prepared to do anything I need to do. Whether that's box, whether that's fight, and I'm at peace. So with Puello, it's a different sort of fight. He's a bit tricky and a bit cleverer and not as direct being in the Southport

as maybe Mattias. So this is a different fight going in. Are we seeing a very different daughter-smith? first bell on Saturday night? Look, you'll see Donald Smith like he has for the last 19 times going there and do what he needs to do to win. You know, adapt to whatever is in front of him

and we've got 12 rounds to do that. And this is a fight that really could have been earlier in the year but for injuries and whatever. That happens in boxing and as I say you've had longer breaks anyway and you understand the way the boxing business works but is it a relief just to finally be getting back in ring and the fight's standing in Sheffield by the way?

Exactly that. And it's obviously every fight I want to fight. But of course, things like that happening in boxing, but I'm just glad we've got the night here in my hometown. It's going to be, the atmosphere is going to be unbelievable in there. And like I said, to have this big homecoming in a good fight, you know, that's what I wanted, so I'm ready for it. And in a kind of bizarre way, it's a nice way to end a year.

So, you know, I mean, if you'd have thought in July, August, you might not have thought again this year. It might have been next year. So it's kind of nice to fight, you know, whatever, seven weeks before, eight weeks for Christmas. It's kind of nice. Exactly that. And like I said,

it's going to be two great performances, two great wins on the record. And like I said, I'm prepared, it's going to be a great night. Without looking too far ahead, Dought, it is time now.

I mean, you're not old in years. You're not old in years. You're not old in wear and tear. But you've got a really good two or three years coming up. Are you allowing yourself to just not look past him

but look at other potential fights? Not at all. Not at all. and I always said October the 25th is irrelevant to me. I want to put a great performance on October 24th and any questions, what need answering and regarding what my future holds, then they can be answered,

but right now, all focuses on Saturday. And let me ask you, what did you make of this Shakir Stevenson thing? He signs a deal with Zuffaboxing, whatever, and he's there and he's going to have this fight, going to have that fight, he's off. This is on the table, that's on the table, and he walks away from them or they let him go,

whatever it was, he's no longer with them without even having a fight. I found that. a little bit odd. Yeah, it's politics in boxing, it's business. I stay out of that. You know, that's why I've got a good manager in Sean O'Too. I've got my dad there.

I leave that to them. You know, I try and stay out of boxing politics. Have you seen Sean eating a salad today, by the way? I have, yeah. I think he's doing that because his cameras are around, didn't it? I'm a little bit concerned. Between us, if I see boxing managers and boxing agents eating a salad, I'm very concerned.

I don't like to see that. See, he weren't eating a salad yesterday. I'll put it out of. He tried to tell me he had a big breakfast this morning and the salad was just like the dessert. I've got to watch at this. Did the kid that went out to Russia in 2010 to the European Scoreboy Championships

who with a group of 20 fighters or 15 fighters, did that kid, did he dream of a night like this? Did he dream of having his WBC belt in a bag over there getting in the ring in front of his hometown fan? Did you allow yourself to dream when you were 12 and 13 and 14? Of course. And that's what has led me to hear, having a dream. because that's what's got me up every morning

that's what's made me sacrifice you know life events family events friendships relationships has always brought me to this moment to have a dream to put my life into boxing

top boxers need to be really selfish don't they massively yeah like you know to the point that you have to break out of character you've got to be the Dalton Smith the boxer has to be the most selfish person he could possibly be

exactly and And without that, there probably would have been no world title. And every athlete, every fighter has to be selfish. It's all about, you've got to do everything for you. And that's what boxing is. And if you want to achieve things, it's as harsh as it is, you've got to do it. Now, finally, ding ding, first bell, crowds calm down a little bit, maybe still standing.

What happens first 20 seconds of the fight? Switched on for 12 rounds. Yeah. And that's how you're thinking that way. That's it. One round at a time, one minute at a time. That's all you got to do. And when it's over, we can start talking about next year.

It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret. Of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secret. Catching my teacher.

Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. I clear that. Just Christmas time. That's it. Dought, thanks for you. Steve, thank you. So that was Doughton talking to me, Rich.

And this will be a different fight against Puello. He's a South Pole. He's a little bit, maybe he's a little bit slicker than Matthias, maybe not as dangerous. Although saying that, the fight that Matthias and Puella had, I mentioned there that were Dalton showed up in an unbelievable outfit, short trousers, like a suit, but it was like short suits. Smart. Look very smart.

That was a brutal fight that Puello and Matias had last summer in New York. Brutifully. Could have gone either way. I think the right man got it, but only just... It will have to be a different Dalton Smith. Or will it? Or will he... Will the home crowd? Will the success in New York? Will the eagerness to please and move on? Will that take over?

He's got confidence now going into the fight, Steve. Momentum. He's got momentum. He's got confidence. But he's got to stay focused. He's in against a tough kid. Puello's a tough, tough opponent. He's a bit flat-footed. I've looked at a few videos of him, but he's strong. And Doughton can box well.

Yes, he can box well. So if he holds his feet, then he brings Puello into the fight. I think the key for victory here is definitely movement, speed of hands, speed of foot, which Dalton has got, and he can box really well like that. And he's got to do that. But looking at his record as well, Dulton, he does well against Southpores.

He's boxed three or four. And his last one was Jose Zepeda. Yeah. Where you're out, Mexican and Mexican. Exactly. Bingo. He knocked him out in the fifth round in 2024, and that was at the Sheffield Arena.

Yeah. So he's got, you know, he's got good vibes. He does well against Southpores. It's the type of contest. If you choose the wrong tactics against this guy, you really bring him into it. He's a bit flat foot. Don't give him a chance.

But he's strong, Steve. Which is interesting. Speed of foot beats him. Let me pick you up on something you said there. You said he's the same arena where he did, so it'd be good vibes. Does that matter to her fighter that you're coming, you're walking out in an arena where you've had,

good wins. Absolutely. Absolutely, because of the crowd. As opposed to having been stopped or something. Yeah, you feel comfortable. But when you are boxing at home, there are some hidden pressures because you've got to please a lot of people. But you've got to block that out.

That's a negative side of it if you go down that road. You've got to be positive and get the crowd behind you and stay focused. But what he's got to do, obviously, listen to his arm man, who's his coach. They'll have the tactics set out. But as long as they get the tactics right against this, this for me, could be a comfortable win. Wrong tactics, then you've got a hard night. Yeah, a really hard night. And I think that's the

case. I think a smarter daughter. And I actually had a little look at his amateur record. I mean, I know he's got pedigree, World Series of boxing. He foxed out in Tashkent against a Cuban in a World Series of boxing for God's sake. But I didn't realize, which, 2010, long time ago, over 16 years ago, he went to Russia for the European Schoolboy

championships. That's the kind of, I mean, that's ridiculous pedigree. It's sort of pedigree you used that. You look at your record. All those amateur years. Young England and that, yeah. I mean, you know, he's even pre-young England. Yeah, exactly.

So when you were a junior, they didn't send 13-year-olds to Russia for the European youth championships, did they? I mean, that's all the pedigree that's inside him. But opponents-wise, Steve, as well, with him,

I mean, obviously, you know, they'll be looking for big-name opponents. And there are big-name Americans. Of course, big-name Americans. But you know what, Steve, there's two or three opponents in Britain that could make mega, mega fights.

The new British champion and they used to have some ding-dong spars when they used to be here. Luke McCormack and Dalton Smith used to have real good spars here. Now that's a future fight

that they've come off. You've even got Adam Azim who's 15 and 0. Mark Chamberley, remember? He's still 18 and 1. These are really good fighters that could make British world title fights

and they would sell out arenas with those type of opponents. I know they'll be pushing for Shakur Stevenson who's just recently you turned out of Zuffer Boxing. He went to Zuffer Boxing. What's that all that?

Signed up. Dana White's biggest sign in at Zufa and whatever, four months later he's now left without having a fight and it seems to have been set free or he's left of his own volition or maybe it was a combination of the two and I know that Shikur

I think Shikur's on everybody's radar who's a big lightweight, light welter, super lightweight, whatever you want to call it, even up to Welterweight because it's been linked with Devon Haney. So we know that people are aiming for him but I agree with you Rich

some of the British names, Adam Azim, who needs to find some momentum let's get away, but Mark Chamberman. And the Lou McCormer, I think's really interesting, because you're absolutely right. He was, Luke McCormack got in Dalton's way at GB selection. But Luke was now, he's done a British champion in what?

Is it only his sixth fight when he won that? It's incredible. That's just absurd, isn't it? Exactly. And like I say, Luke was always ahead of Dalton at GB. So, um... And there's no, there's no controversy in saying. No, he'll admit that himself.

He'll admit that stuff. That's just the way it was. It was very competitive at that time in that division. And, you know, Dalton's moved on. But that's a future fight. Like I say, that would sell out at either, an arena here in Sheffield or in Newcastle or Sunderland or whatever, where Luke's from.

I mean, there's a big, big fights. And don't forget Mark Chamberlain is still a quality, like Walterweight or super lightweight, as they say these days. A quality kid. And again, that type of contest would sell out an arena. So even though, you know, daughter may have his eyes on, you know, America and may have his eyes on massive international and global showdowns, there are some fantastic domestic fights.

And Ritchie Woodland and I, we make no way. apologies for pushing for domestic fights. We make no apologies. We don't fall over or bow down. So that's Doughton. Richard, what happens in the fight on Saturday? Ding, ding, first round. Same question I asked Doughton. I think

it's going to be a master class display from Dalton Smith. I don't think he's going to lose many of the rounds. I think it could probably go late though, to be quite honest. He's got to stay focused in a contest like that. And at times it might get a little bit too easy for him in terms of, because the kid's a little bit

slow on his feet and Dalton will pick him off. He's just got to stay focused and get the job done. If he can get a stoppage, that would be brilliant. But like I say, get the tactics wrong, bring him into it. You're in for a hard night. So long as he's fast with his feet in and out, I think it's a good victory for Dalton Smith, maybe on points, maybe late stoppage.

So that's on Saturday on Five Live Live. We think from about 10pm, but just watch and keep listening throughout. I'll be on Five Live over the weekend. Ritchie will be as well. We think it'll be about 10pm on 5 Live on Saturday night. Now, the heavy weights, the young heavy weights, okay, now there was a time, which,

when you're looking at young heavy weights, and you'd be looking at this American and that American, and then, and you know, you'd hope there'd be some Britain in the mix. Well, how about this little list? Let me just run this through with you. Moses Hittal, which 21 years of age, just lost the World Title Fite, 21 years of age.

DeMarth Thomas, who just said a load to walking in, he's 21 years of age. Commonwealth Games gold medalist, medallists at the World Amateur Championships, finalist there, medalist at the European Championship. European silver, I mean,

this stuff's ridiculous. I mean, absolutely ridiculous. And in between that, he wins the under 23 European Championships. He's 21. Adam Olinien, the young kid we saw last weekend, the Irish kid who I liked so much,

he's just 20. And then the kid who's fighting on Saturday night in Shevold, Leo, a tank, eight fights, 19 years of age. Four heavyweights, 21 or under, all British or Irish. Rich, I'm going to whisper with it.

I've never, in my lifetime. You know why? Because it's never happened in my lifetime. Our life time. That's ridiculous. We've got a fantastic heavyweight division in the pro game but we've got, as you say Steve, got some real good prospects coming through. And Leo is one of them. And if you look at him, he's only done

16 rounds in eight contests. It's incredible. He's got five, he's been six round once, he's got five or first round knockouts. So yes, he's exciting. And the good first round knockouts. You know what I mean by that? You're not like clubbing a guy. He's good shots.

He's tall. He's athletic. You know, he's got speed. He's got power. He can box. The kid can box. I remember him up here on G. Yeah, of course.

But he was only on GB for a very short time. But he was really impressed with him because of his boxing skills. Not because of his power. Now we know he's got power. He's athletic. Yes, he's one for the future. Leo Atang. And I think he's quite smart.

You know what I mean? And that's really important. I think he's a smart heavyweight, which I think he's a thinking. Heighweight. Now, I caught up with Leo Atang. Let me just tell you the background to this interview, Rich. You know, you weren't there, but you're remember it and you're a chuckle. We were in Nottingham for Lee Wood against Josh Warrington,

the long overdue rematch that didn't live up to what the first fight was. And I was there with Darren Fletcher, I think Clinton Morrison, the footballer, Paul Robinson, former England goal kit, and another player who I can't remember apologies to him. So it was basically a football show, we dipped in and out of the box. Anyway, Lear-Tang came along, called him over. At the time, I think he was about 5 and 0. sat him down with us

so Fletch does a thing this is Leo Atang it's an unbeaten young heavyweight and so he says but before we start Leo just go ask you about your football team silence no I'm talking real silence

like proper silence not like a mere car and saying Manchester United City literally or Lennox Lewis and the West of Hammers like he's from York absolute complete and utter silence

however so going into this interview I better ask you about that but I was tipped off by Mattie Lord us a match with him that Leo had actually been at York City's match the night before so he did know so that's how that's where we start off by talking about football here I am with Leo a tang I found my roots I reconnected with the game so you're back to football now yes how was the match yeah it was good obviously I mean it was a draw so can get better than a draw but it's not a loss

well that's enough football let's get back to the boxing okay now there will be a point when you won't be a teenager, you'll be 20, 21, you won't have had 5, 6, 7, 8 fights, you'd have had 15 fights, 16 fights. Are you thinking about that when you're, when you'd be considered a proper big heavy weight, a big adult heavy weight? Of course, because at the end of the day,

yeah, we're doing all the fun stuff now, we're getting them out of there, but we're doing it to learn to make ourselves better. To get there. To get there, and also to be ready when we get there. And you'll be ready when you, 100%. Yeah, looking forward to getting there.

I don't. forward to not being like the kid so obviously I'm not trying to wish the journey away got to enjoy it all but that's the end goal for me and that's why I do want to get to if you sit around and look at things do you think about

do you think about hard fights AJ used to talk about always wanting to be in a hard fight like the guys were in the 70s do you think that way or do you think about just winning fights easily quickly and simply what do you think about the end of the day you've got to get it done you've got to get the wins but you want to entertain

people as well my end goal is to be world champion, I'll do it. However, I've got to do it if it's stint the gaff out one day and throw some jabs, I might have to do that, but I'm getting a world title, that's all it matters. Has it been, I mean, it has been a sort of whirlwind in the sense that, you know, from starting to where you are now, you're still enjoying it, obviously, but it will get unbelievable. It has to get harder. Yeah, definitely.

Looking forward to that. Looking forward to that. Yeah, I'm under no illusion. I mean, I've boxed a higher level, way higher level as an amateur. I know what high-level boxing is. I know there's a lot more levels to go through and stuff. So this is like, I'm not falling under the illusion that it's always going to be like this, but I'm using it to get them experiences, get myself

ready for when I do get there, we're ready to go. And you're part of this ridiculous group of British and Irish heavyweights, 21 and under. Obviously, Moses is still only 21. Demar Thomas, I know, is still an amateur, but he's, I think he's 20 years of age. Adam Millennians, I think it's 21 or 20.

and you're on 19. That four, I mean, I'm telling you, I'm going to whisper it, in my 35 years in the business, we've never had four fighters like that around that same, mate, it's incredible. That's it. And you're part of it, you're right at the centre of it. Some, what's it called, four kings?

Yeah, we'll get that going. Four young princes. Yeah. But it's going to, it just makes for bigger fights and so. Everyone, like, says, oh, there's only, there can only be one. He can't fight him. Why?

What, do you want it to be a boring division? We'll all fight each other. So he's, assuming, that that starts to open up in 18 months or a year, maybe even two years. Is defending the zero massively important to you or is becoming a better fighter more important to you? It is, of course, it's the better fighter and the world champion.

Obviously, everyone wants to go to the whole career undefeated. A lot of the time, you're not going to learn that way and you can just fight people who aren't going to throw back and build up your record beautifully, or you can test yourself, put yourself in the deep end and get the experiences the best. come out after it. You'd like that, wouldn't you?

I mean, your management are doing it perfectly. Of course. You're beating guys you're meant to beat and you're beating in the way you're meant to beat. I'd fight more, but I know you would do.

I'm doing what I'm told. I know they've got a plan and I know they're going to guide me the right way. And sometimes, I think I'm talking to you before your first fight or after your first fight, sometimes it's harder to stay, to concentrate now because in your heart of hearts you know you're going to beat the guy,

but you've still got to treat it like it's the most important fight of your life, every one of these fights. And I think that's why I almost wanted like a bit of a step upon this one. A bit of a test. Sometimes, like you say, you can almost, not going half-hearted,

but you don't got that fear factor of what's coming back. Like, there's no, there's no consequences. If I, if I throw a lazy job, I'm not going to get counted. They're just going to stand there. And you don't want to go too long about that fear factor, do you? Because then you get set into it and then you almost forget what it's like to be like. Well done, Leo, because that can

really happen, you know, fighters can forget what a competitive flights like. Because you, you know, your last or half a dozen amateur fights were harder fights. Oh, by my mind you have in now. Yeah. I mean, that's why I always talked to you about that. When you were at the Haringay Box Cup, and you were in the big lump where I was from.

I'm from New Zealand. Oh, what a fight. Two of you're completely exhausted. Oh, I was gone. It was brilliant, I mean, so you've got to remember fights like that. Those are the real hard ones. I was on Jemail on our fight.

Listen, it's a pleasure talking to you, and it's a delight that you're now back on the books at York City, starting up front for them at any time you're available and you're not boxing. Of course. A lot of football. few goals up top, don't worry. It's a nice on.

Leo Oetangnia, knowing full well Rich that at some point he won't be 8 and 0 against guys he's easy going to be and he won't be 19, he'll be suddenly a man and it will get harder. And I like that awareness. He knows that the game is not going to be this easy all the way through.

Exactly. He knows it's going to get tough. And in this next contest it might get tough for him. He's in against the tough Argentinian, Steve. Yeah, he is tough for me as well. Vigara, who's 29, who actually won his first five contests on the trot. Tommy Welsh from Brighton was the first fighter to beat him. Scott Welsh's son.

So he's not bad this kid and he's only been stopped twice. So this I think is a good match. I think it's a little bit of a step up for him. Let's see how he deals with it. But this opponent's a little bit better than what he's previously box. So I think it's a clever match indeed. But Leo Atang, he knows it's going to get tougher.

He's just got to, he's the... He's the type of kid, I think, that will keep his feet on the ground. He can't get too carried away with the winds, the one-round knockouts. He knows he knows it's going to get tougher. And I think he knows that because of the spars that he's actually had here as well. I remember in good spas... It's a good humbling place, D.I. Yes, isn't it? When you're in the G-B-set-up on the periphery, you get humble,

because there's always someone better than you, correct? Well, he had a real good spa with Dimar Thomas. He had real good spa with Isococo, who were heavyweights and super-heavys. And good fighters, really good fighters. who win medals and sometimes they got the better of him and sometimes he got the better of them

so yeah he held his own here and there against good boxers here and that down is the yard 1718 yeah he's only a kid he's only a kid so he's done well but he knows and I think because of those type of spas he knows that he shouldn't get

I think he realises he can't get carried away because it's going to get tougher but he's doing everything right but this next fight Steve I think will be an interesting one Rich can you imagine that in two years time Moses had to be 23

Adam and Lillianna would be 20, I don't know, 22, 23. D'Amal might have turned pro after the Olympics. I mean, it's Demal Station of Olympics. I tell you what, Rich. I mean, he's got to be a good chance for a medal there, and I really mean to know. You need a bit of luck at the Olympics, as you know. Yeah, you do.

Need a bit of luck on this side. And it would be like 22, 23. Wow. Four dominant heavyways. As he said, you know, we'd be like the four kings. As I said, the four princes. Don't get carried away just yet, son. But those are phenomenal potential days.

Yeah, yeah, they are indeed. Because Steve, like I said, we've got a really healthy heavyweight division at the moment here but we've got these youngsters coming through that are going to fill the shoes obviously of the Daniel de Bois, this world the Tyson Fuse, the age age, yes they are

definitely are, and Leo Atang is definitely going to be in that mix because of his age because of his athleticism yes, he's a kid for the future well listen to it's just been a pleasure and a delight talking to it's a pleasure of delight from seeing Leo Atang

who's a character and I do like him It's always a pleasure seeing Dalton Smith because he's consummate professional Dalton Smith. And Richie, on Saturday, if I'm not mistaken, it's the Samosa Day.

We are Samosa. We are Samosed both ways. Samosa to Shafield and Samosed from Shelfield with Charn, our friend, which is another story for another day. That's the way it works.

So we're going to be live from 10pm on 5 live with the WBC Super Lightweight Championship of the world. Dalton Smith, we pulled off one of the finest wins by a British boxer to win the title earlier this year

against Alberto Puello and it is a hard fight. It's got to be one of the hardest ever homecomings I've ever heard of and Leo Tang on the undercard always worth watching. You've got to watch these kids early. You've got to get them early.

You've got to watch them early. Speak to them early and you can stick with them, stay with them. Demar Thomas is the same way. Moses Atom was the same way. Young Adam Olinian. Four young heavy weights like that. All under 22 years of age.

Oh, glorious day. Well, the World Heavyweight Championship boxing last week. Now we've got this. Tyson Fury and AJ Whisper, it's getting closer and closer. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. The Football Daily Podcasts with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith. We are here and we're back. Twice a week, every Thursday and Sunday.

We are going to try and tackle all of the big stories in football throughout the season. Everyone's talking about at the moment about, oh, you've got to invest in gold, so I think you just melt it all down. Then you give each of the teams a little bit of gold. There you go. Yeah, I mean, the big revelation for me there is that you think the trophies are made out of gold. Yeah. Silverware.

With Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith. Listen on BBC Sounds. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected a book. of anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed.

This is World of Secrets, Catching My Teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.