5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Del Boy and Deontay

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Can Wilder still be the fighter he once was, and how much does Derek Chisora have left? Barry Jones joins Buncey at the launch press conference ahead of their April fight to ask what we can expect from both men. Buncey also sits down with the pair, as well as the promoters involved, Frank Warren and Kalle Sauerland.

This is Five Live Boxing. Two heavyweight giants, two veterans, one venue, a special weekend. Derek Del Boy Chisora, wars thrown in there sometimes against Deonti Wilder, former World Heavyweight Champion. What more do you want from a heavyweight clash? I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. So two veteran heavyweights, the stats were they're quite ridiculous. Let's get them out of the top, because, you know, why not?

Let's get them at the top. They both be having their 50th fight tick. 98 fights they've had combined. Combined age, 82. Wins. 80 wins. 66 by, well, knockout generally. You don't get fights like that. I've had to look back through history. They don't exist. This is unique. And for a unique fight, on a very late night in London, after a very long day, talking to heavyweights and their heavyweight companions, there's only one man I need with me. It is, of course, a former super featherweight. You thought I was going to introduce David Hayle, Lennox Lewis, forget that. Barry, what was your first reaction when you heard that Deonti Wilder was going to be fighting Derek Delboe-Cizorah on April of 4th at the O2?

Do you know what? I sort of went, I have figures. Yeah. That makes sense. Suddenly it makes all the sense in the world. Could when it's all about boxing Alexander Ouzer, I thought, I don't know, the form he's in right now and the form Uziac's in. and that's not going to look good. But then when he said Chazora, who's in fantastic form,

but he's still, you know, the age he's at. And there was a lot of bad years. Yeah, you know, and, you know, and even the wins he's had, he still had to work for it, and, you know, he looked good. And just thought, you know, maybe this might be the right time for this fight. Because there was one point in this, if this fight was made a few years ago,

when Wilder was right on form, yeah. That stylistically, it was a bad fight for Derek. Because he has to walk through the fight of Derek to get you. So sort of 2016, 17, 18, 18, 8. when Derek was waiting for another chance, having lost to Vitaly in 2012, and at that point,

Deonti was well into his run of 10 consecutive World title defences. Then it was a bad looking fight. Yeah, when he was full of confidence, he just wanted to take people's heads off. And even though Derek loves that sort of fight, he'd have to take some to get there. And at that point,

if Wilder could hit you, you were done. And we were seeing that against fantastic fighters like Lewis Ortiz, who were all boxing him, but you take a second breath and you're done. Now we're going to hear from both the, boxes and as I say, plenty of the people surrounding the fight, but you watch the press conference with me. What was your

sort of gut reaction? Because what they kind of told me, and we're going to hear them being interviewed, what they told me was this was about the fathers and not the fighters. This was about the idea that they're both really decent human beings. And as Derek said, there's no need to throw a table, and I know a little bit about throwing

a table. I mean, with Derek Chazora, you're always waiting for the unexpected, aren't you? And that's what we got today. It was it was very sullen. It was calm and over-respectful, I would say. Let's be honest. You normally wants to see that for a build-up and fight.

Though, you know, we complain and argue being purists about, you know, when people, you know, they should be fine for doing this and fine for doing that. Where's the respect to the sport? But, you know, all under the rest of the sport. But, you know, all of themselves. We got both guys who are great, one's a great talk, or one does more talking with his actions in Builder,

but they know both know the cell of fighting their own unique ways. And so I saw it was a little bit disappointed, but I also didn't mind it at the same time. Because whatever happens, and they did allude to that, or they didn't allude. They right out said it. Come fight week,

they'll forget their friends. Yeah. And they will. I mean, if we could fast forward today to Fight Week and the press conference and Fight Week, they might be a couple of laughs, but then one will say something, and it'll go, bam.

One will go, yeah, yeah, no, I'll respect in the world, but I'm going to knock you out. And they'll go, well, come on then. Yeah. And then it'll start. So even fighters that don't, have to make weight. They can still, they're still getting edgy because they both started,

well, early camps, I guess you could probably say. You're focused on that. Exactly. Your entire life. People don't understand that I'll train it and takes over your life. Forget about the weight. It takes over your life. You only thought, I mean, that's why, you know, families of fighters, and I, and I empathise, and I feel regretful for the way I treat some of my family and build it from my fights because you're selfish, because you have to be, because it's all about you. going to get hurt and the other one who has to be focused and concentrating to be fit and mentally physically all that stuff has to be spot on the best you can so it's all about you your whole life's about you this focal point so no and him or you and her if he's going to fight

so you don't think about nobody else don't think about your kids don't think of anything even you're with them you're sort of detached it's a weird weird feeling it's and it's all about what can I do to that guy or how can I stop that guy doing that to me I think that's important and And I think for that, when it gets close to a fight, the edge is there, the focus is there. And for people like them, we're quite erratic, that's where all the mad stuff comes out. But I know we're a long way out. You know, this is very early February and they're fighting at the start of April. But could you get any tells today from the president?

Could you sense anything? I mean, I mean, there was a love in the room, but they all said they're full of respect for each other. But was there just anything? Before we hear from the first of them, was there just anything in your eyes? Not from Derek. I think he's just the same, always. You know, a little bit blasé, but can flick on a switch.

No, but I think we're wilder, because he wasn't mad, aggressive, like he can't be in the past. He wasn't trying to overstall. He's limiting his, um, bomb squads. But he also wasn't massively, I mean, he was,

he was quite thoughtful, but almost realising, understanding, and sort of explaining to us, listen, I've been through some problems. I mean, he almost went too deep, explaining about what problems he went through, but I mean,

he really, fighters, not robots. I think he realized, the pressure to perform is more on him I think because he's not saying I'm retiring he's not saying he's 50 and out and he's the one who really wants to get back

to the box he's the one who said I want to box for the world title again I can be a world champion again and probably you know you talk about his record is obviously on paper much better than Derek Chazora's but on the run of form it's not on paper it's not the best to fall so you know he realizes I'm a better fighter

than this and this is my chance to prove and Derek you know if you get sorry If you can get it right, I think Wilder, this is the perfect start. If he's on form, this is the perfect style to make him look fantastic.

But if he's not on form, this is the worst style and someone can walk right through you. Well, listen, let's hear from Deonti Wilde. I sat down with Deonti, came with a portion of chips, fishing chips that Derek had bought him. He came also clothed

in a beautiful winter Afghan coat. I've got one of those coats. They're the best things in the world. They weigh an absolute ton. So here's Deonti. I sat down with him And the first thing I asked him was quite similar. I know he loves London,

I asked him how London, the capital, has been treating him. London is always good to me. You know, every time I come here, you know. And it's a pleasure to come here because this is where some of the biggest fans of boxing live. And if you're a fighter, you would love to come here. You know, even when I walk to streets, when I go into restaurants, when I go into other facilities,

no matter if I go into a grocery store, you know, I'm always treated well and getting respect from the people. Okay, so I want to do a really hard question. I'm hearing fewer and fewer bomb squads these days. Have you sort of retired it a little bit? Or you're just using it on occasion? I'm not asking for one now. I'm just saying, I mean, you've been in London two days.

I think I've heard one bomb squad. Well, if you was with us maybe 20 seconds ago, you would have heard one. That's good, out of the street. But the bomb squad is definitely starting to strain my throat a little bit. Pause. But now in days we have limited of bombs. limited of bumps-wise a day. So maybe 10 bumps-wise a day.

I'm down to nine now. That sounds about right. And how's Derek been? Do you have a friendship with Derek going back? So, you know, I've seen you in different places together over a lot of years. Yeah, most definitely. Me and Derek definitely have a friendship, you know. Like I tell the guy, I love the guy.

You know what I mean? I just love his personality. I love the makeup of who Derek Trussore is, you know, by looking at him. He looked like a rude boy. But he's a pretty good guy, man. And one of the most things about him, I love, he's an amazing father, you know, as I am as well. You know, and when you get two amazing fathers, I mean, I always connect with fathers, you know, and he's a great person, you know, especially when you get to know him, just like me.

I'm a question mark outside of the ring. No one knows who I am until you get closer, you meet me and you fall in love with him. But over the years, we've had signs of that. You know, there's been great, you've talked to me once about, in fact, not far from here, talking about sitting on your porch at sunset with your kids. around you, all of your children, messing around on your green. And then suddenly that's almost like you're letting your guard down. That was the real Deonte.

That was the one with no question mark. Yeah, most definitely. I mean, you know, when I'm around my kids, they show the, children show the purest form of love, you know. And they always, you know, they straightforward and they're not blunt about nothing. You know, they come straight, straightforward with the truth of things. And I love it, you know, most of my younger girls, when I'm away, you know, they'll call me.

And if I don't answer, they will leave voice messages. And some of the voice messages go, Daddy, I miss you so, so, so, so much. Well, Daddy, I was just calling to check up on you. You're the best dad in the whole hour. You know, and sometimes when I get down or when I have a stressful day, I'll go back and replay those voice messages.

And, you know, it never fails me to leave my face wet. You have to listen. Who's end up in tears. Amen. Deonti, during Fight Week, can you have messages from your kids? Or do you have to, is there a shut off point even in Deonti Wilder's life with his children and his family in Fight Week? Yes, it is.

It's a shut off point for sure. But you have to. When you win a severe business as boxing, you have to be able to shut it off. And when it's time to shut it back on, you have to know how to shut it back on, you know. And you know, when you deal with a business where you don't know what's going to happen, you You get in good and you don't know what's going to happen coming out, you know. Even when you come out, sometimes externally we're good. Oh, I feel great or whatever.

But internally, something may have cost and effect that have something that's cooking up inside. You don't know. That's why I advise all fighters to go get MRIs, you know, casket and stuff that can check the inside to see what's going on. Because, you know, we risk our lives for other's entertainment. And I'm looking to have a lone jeopardy with my children to be around. I love being able to be a father and to guide them in this world. You know, this is a messed up world. It's crazy nowadays.

And I just want to be around the longest possible to guide them. Now, Deonti, one of the things that we never get spoken about with you. We always talk about who you're fighting next and who you fought last and the fight you've just been in. So whether it's Tyson Fury, whether it's Derek Chazora, whether it's Joseph Parker, Jolie Zhang, whether it's anyone. But what we never talk about with you is what you actually did as World Heavyweight Champion, 10 consecutive world heavyweight title defenses.

That puts you in a very elite club of heavyweight champions. Most definitely. You know, with that accomplishment, it feels great, you know, because I'm just a country boy from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, that had a dream of risking my life to take care of my daughter that was born with Spina Bifida. That's all I did, you know. I only sacrificed my life to help feed it.

support another life, you know. And any father would do that, you know, under any situations or circumstances or their child needs you the most and you don't have the resources or the financial stirability to do certain things, what do you do? You sacrifice yourself for your child,

and that's exactly what I did. And with that being said, you know, my plans, I didn't have plans to be a fighter. My plans was American football. basketball, stuff like that. But most time when you have plans, it don't work out because God have other plans for you. But when you came back from the Olympics,

you were going to be a fighter. You weren't still thinking about alternative American sports then. Once you'd come back with the medal, that was it. You were going to be a fighter at that point. Most definitely, because my daughter needed me at that moment in time. You know, the Olympics were just the start of a great adventure for me. I didn't even know nothing about the Olympics. The only way we found out about Olympics was 2007 up in the gym.

I remember it vividly, you know, we was all training. You're an accidental champion. You're an accidental world heavyweight champion. I don't think nothing about accident. It's design. Designed. I'm going to. I leave by faith and not by sight.

You know what I mean? And, you know, God is a good God. He's an on time one as well. And just final question on back to Del Boy, back to Del Boy, Derek Chisora, his 50th fight, your 50th fight. You've had 82 fights between you or whatever. So you've had your 82 years of age between you, whatever is, 60-od knockouts. What happens first bill, packed out O2?

What happens? I mean, it's just like Tresora Atlas name. It's going to be a war. I mean, people see us walking out. They see us as friends and stuff like that because we know how to conduct ourselves. We've been around for a long time. You know, we're both in our 40s.

We didn't experience so much. We didn't done so much. And it's so many ways of promoting the fight without having the chaos and the drama. And even with the security guards, being on not knowing what to expect. And then you got characters like me and character like him, you don't know what's gonna happen,

you know what I mean? But we conduct ourselves in a great manner and, you know, and it's gonna be, it's gonna be a war in there because we turn it off on the outside of thing but when we get in the ring, it will be turned on. And just final, final question.

Are you still enjoying the fighting game? Still enjoying it? Are you enjoying the business? I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in it, you know? Because I don't have to be in this business anymore. I've abandoned my business outside of it.

And I've done the proper things to take care of my children with trust, life's trust, wheels, and different things like that. You know, sometimes my financial people, you know, I'm very close to the CEO. And he's like, why are you doing it? Why are you keep doing that? And we just had a conversation a week ago, and he, like, we had a heart-to-heart conversation to say, I understand what you're doing. You know, and although you promised me that you won't do it no more, I understand you and I'm with you, brother.

You know, I just want you to go do what you got to do. And then at some point, I want you to keep your promise to me. So I hold that true. So, you know, it makes me feel good to know financially that I'm good all the way around, you know, even with my team or my financial people is telling me things. But you still, I'm still on a mission, you know. ever since I was 12 I've done things for people you know I've been selfless ever since 12 coming up at this moment of time I'm selfish so I want to you it's all about me it's all about me and then I just want to give it the best I got while I can because when

I hang it up and it's done it's it's over it's no coming back it's no returning no matter what type of money or opportunity that may have it's over with because we didn't sacrifice our bodies for years and years and you got to understand the head and the body It's not me to be hit a banged on. So at some point of time, it will come to an end. But at this moment of time, I'm going to enjoy it while I can and fulfill my dreams while I'm being selfish along this journey. So, Barry, there's Deonti Wilder finishing with something you said at the top

about being selfish. In the past, I was selfless, he said. Now I need to be selfish. Pointing at the fact that he wants to turn things around still, which is bizarre because he's 40 years of age, and this is his 50th fight. I've been saying it all week actually to people but it's the mental game for him physically, I've said already today to people

but you don't lose your power power's the last thing to go they say but your ability to find that power to release that power is what alludes you and that's meant to. And that's seen missing in several last... That's all in your head. Certainly two of the last three fights.

That's all in your head. Unless you're slowing down dramatically no, Gwynnie I've got the same speed of shots that can happen but I mean for him it's not it's a mental barrier whether it could even have a few different trainers who tried to make him a better more thoughtful boxer

which is the right thing you do and the same thing happened to Joshua over a period it took away his magic and his magic for him is that we're in a fight I'm not technically the best but I got power and I'm long and I'm athletic so I'll throw fast and I'll throw often I'll throw from range and you've got to try and get into me

and he pushes you back to that way and he can by the way and with that he's able to punch going backwards as well because he's always he's throwing the punches with so much speed and spite but you've got to think it you've got to think this is the last punch I'm ever going to throw for every punch and that's what he did

every punch you threw was the money punch and I mean that's what made him vulnerable and also absolutely a stunning knockoutout but but with Wilder there I sense something I mean I sat down with him before all three of the fights with Fury I sat down with him before the

Joseph Parker fight I sat down with him before the Zillay fight. So three of those five fights, sorry, four of those five fights he lost, I sat down with him. The man I sat down with here, the man you just heard from there, is a different man, it's a different beast. He looks more relaxed. He sounds more relaxed. He could make eye contact. Now that makes him, in my opinion, a fairly dangerous fighter again. And he talked about that. Yes, it's back during the conference. Yes, it's back. It's never been away. No, it's true. And he does look that way. And he's a great talk, and he can convince you.

but you've got to be aware and try and see the signs that he's not just trying to convince himself that he has something that's no longer belongs to him and that's that belief and not saying that but you have to be aware of that

because sometimes you're searching and you think you're the fighter you once were and you might not ever get that back it's quite hard especially mental stuff Steve physically you can always train to get fitter

sometimes once you lose that mental edge it's very hard to find that again because usually a lot of it is about the journey up the hunger to get there and the thing is about There's no way of telling him with the Onto, whether he is back, whether he isn't back. Because if you were watching the Louis Ortiz fight when it goes the eight or nine rounds

and he lands that shot, having lost the previous eight or nine rounds or whatever it was, you had no idea that the Auntie Wilde was doing it. And that's the beauty of the Auntie Wilder. But in that fight, even though he was getting a box, Louis Ortiz is a fantastic box by the way, and you never thought he was going to get. I didn't think he was going to win the fight. But he's thrown every time with belief that if you can catch you, he can knock you out.

So his mental state doesn't change. know he's getting a box, he's just trying to wreck you every time. But in recent fights, he hasn't boxed in the same manner. It's always been a little bit more tentative, not massively tentative because he's not that way, but a little more tentative than what he needs. You're not wrong then. I also caught up with Del Boy. Now, I've known Del Boy a long time, and he alludes to that straight away. But the one thing about Del Boy, if you actually look at it, I think, I think, Barry, that he's met about 25 boxes from the top 10. And I put that to Derek. Well, he seemed to be quite pleased with it.

Thank you very much. But, you know, looking at this now, I remember when we met, used to give me a stick. Yeah, I did. Because you didn't train very hard, did you? Yeah, yeah. You didn't have a training problem back then, you know?

Your core used to give me a stick every time, you know, you were in the amateurs. Because you had the talent, but sometimes you didn't put it in and you were knocking in the third round. Can I tell you something? I did not know. Yeah, of course. Do you understand?

I don't know. But I think. David Hay for showing me the right way, you know, and that's it. You know, once David started working with you after the fight, you did, it was a transformation in Derek, did? Big time, big time, I mean transformation in training and knowing how to eat. You know, back in the days, I'm like, ah, this food is not cold, it's no, and David was like, no, no, we eat for the field, bro, for training, so we eat.

We don't need taste buds. I'm like, fine, perfect. Derek, it's going to be your 50th fight, you're 42. you've had, you're in the best, the last 18 months of your life, some people might argue, and I might be one of them, that this might be the best Derek Del Boy Chizoria,

your head's right, your body's right? How have you done it? What, you've turned things upside down? It's all God, bro. God, amen. It's all God. You know, certain things. God and Saunas.

God and Saunas. But you know what? For me to get up to a sauna, it's a blessing of God, you know, and this faith, my brother, faith. And Deonti Wilder is a man that you've crossed paths with for many years at different shows, in different arenas.

Would you classify him as a friend? Obviously, going into the fight, it's different. But would you have classified him six weeks ago before this fight was made as a friend? Yeah, me and Diante Waldo, we have him puffed together in Saudi and in Dubai. So we just hang out. He's a particularly dangerous fighter, Derek, if you fight Deonti Wilder's fight. Yes. if I give him time on the ball

it's very dangerous and in the past when he's been he's had a bad performance then he can pull it around but he's also had a bad performance or he hasn't turned it around but I've spoken to Deonti Wilder today

at length and he sounds like he's in a better place than he's been for a long time that's the problem I'm facing because I wanted to have known you want the old Deonti I want the old Deonti but you know what

I want him to come out So I want the British public To spend their hardworking money Yeah Buy tickets and come watch us I don't want the I want the killer Deonti That's the guy I want

So you want the best Deontan I want the one who go bang And then suddenly you're on the floor And you don't know what you're on the floor For you like rough the floor is wet It's a punch son You know that's what I want Del the thing with Deonti okay

He obviously brings that He brings that kind of dain but the British public also like you. But what's happened in the last couple of years? People have always liked you. You know, you don't get booed. But this last two or three years, Derek, you've become almost the number of the fans' favourite.

People absolutely love and adore you. What happened? How did that happen? Because, you know what, I've been saying the same thing every day. I say the truth. You know, when you speak the truth, people don't want to listen. And they're subconscious sometimes, they start listening. You know what?

He is right. He is right. And then suddenly, by the time they get onto the gravy train, they're like, you know what, it's much better on this train than anywhere else, bro. So I'm more, I've never changed. I've been always saying the same stuff I say every day. You know, I like fighting, and when I come, I come to fight. But a lot of fighters say that, then maybe don't deliver, but you've been delivering.

I deliver, I deliver, because I don't want to be a... You know, one thing walking down the streets and people don't respect you, nah. I remember to say, you know what? You know the best thing I love the most? It's like when I'm in town or Mayfair or I'm running from my house into Mayfair, the bus drivers, be it, bing, bim, bim, they're waving at me. The taxi drivers, bing, bing, bing, they're waving at me.

They love you. They're waving at me. So what kind of, what, so let me take you to the night of the fight, okay? You're in the dressing room at the O2. You've been in those big dressing rooms before. You can hear the crowd. It's completely sold out there. Your fans there, but it's good, no.

It's going to be like a carnival, like it's going to be brilliant, the atmosphere. You're coming out, Derek. Are you going to save it for that moment? Will it be the last, Derek? The last one, Derrick will be so slow, I'm like, hurry up, Derek, hurry up. You're going to set a record, so the 12-minute ring walk. Probably half an hour.

But I'm going to be waiting and stuff like that. And then what happens, ding-ding, first built, Derek, Chisola. And then we go to war. Simple as that? Simple as that. Del Boy there convinced this fight doesn't need selling in any kind of grand or stupid way. And I absolutely agree with him. I think Dell, as you say, will change come fight time.

But I'm going to put that to you, the idea that there's so many named fighters that he's met. Like Robert Hellenius, at the time that Derek went out to fight him and lost a very bad decision, I think we had it back in the day on Box Nation. Yeah, we did indeed. I thought he won the fight clearly, but hey-ho. I mean, he was just one of about 25 fights, not 25 fighters, obviously, because he fights Fury three times and he fights Dillian White twice. But there's a great case that there's at least 20 men inside the top 10 when he went in the ring with him. I'm not saying that's a record, but those are the kind of stats he used to get in the 80s, 70s and the 80s.

Yeah, and then he becomes what used to be called the gate. He said they called the gay keeper, but back in the 80s, 70s, he would have been called the gay keep. If you want to be anywhere near Go through the war title, he's the acid test, and he still is. I think Deb Tresora is, this is going to sound weird, but bear with me. I think he's one of the easiest fighters to train for.

But one of the hardest fighters to box. Yeah, I know the punch for him. You know what you're going to get with him, so you can plan it out. This is what he's going to do every time. He does the same thing every time. This is what he's going to do. Nobody's going to do.

So you can train for that. Yeah. But how do you stop it? I mean... And especially now. I mean, in all fairness, this Derek is a Derek I didn't think I'd see. Four or five, I actually go back to that night at the Excel when Tyson Fury stopped him in their rematch.

There's a second fight, by the way. As a Southport, the whole time. And I look at that fight and I genuinely, absolutely genuinely, but genuinely believe that this Derek, you know, I never thought we'd see this Derek after watching that Derek. I didn't think we'd have Derek around. Was that 19, was that 12 years ago? I can remember.

Before, you know, people. let's be honest, a lot of people be more about Derek's health and what he's going to be like after the box is. So a lot of people been saying everybody, Frank Warren and everyone, time to retire for the sentence for a few years. But even before that, I thought, oh, you know, he must have just pack it in because you've had a decent career, a good career.

We had a good 12 rounds of fights on your clits going, in 2012. Yeah, a good career, but, you know, he's not going to make that grade, no, no, just, that's enough because I thought the fight's right. You don't need to do so. I thought he was getting, like, a lot of fighters and the boxing six rounds for a couple of grand. That's where we thought

that's where quite often Creas. Or worse, there were Danny Williams fighting four rounds for 200 quid. And just no way out. I thought,

get out before that happens. All he's done is just shown that how mentally tough he is, physically and mentally tough he is. I mean, it's no good for your health

but I mean, we can argue that thing all day. He's a hard man to beat. He's always on you. And he looks, the thing with Derek, he looks tired at round four. Yeah.

But in round 11, you get the same fighter. You get a second. You get a second. I can't figure it out. He just looks exhausted. He strikes me. But then it's the same rhythm.

And so he doesn't look very good in the early rounds. But then in the later round, you're still thinking, you can't. You're not going away. You're still here. And for these big guys, it's hard work. And for someone like DeWaldor, who's a lighter man,

if he can lean on DeAndiwalder, I mean, he'll empty his tank in no time. And that's why this fight has to be bruising, has to be brutal. It just has to be because neither of them had the ability to do a Shakur Stevenson, for instance.

Neither have that ability to box and maneuver like that. They have to fight. I'll tell you what Wilder showed. He's knocking everyone out and in the Fury first fight who knocks him down the last round

but everyone thought what we certainly did that Fury won that fight in the rematch Fury goes at him and bullies him and stops him and it looked like Wilder like a lot of massive punches

because they haven't been in wars because they're knocking everyone out was maybe a bit of a bully in the ring. side, the lovely guy. Here we go. In that third fight, he showed how tough he was. I mean, unbelievable.

Like, I mean... People forget that that could have gone either way, five, six times that fight. It could have gone either way five, six times. It was a beautiful fight to watch as the spectator. Yeah, it was. I mean, they're not... Don't get back up, knocking in. I mean, you can train for that.

You can teach that. You've got it or you haven't got it. You find out in the worst moment of your life when you're on the floor and you're hurt. And he got up. So we know, we know if he can be hurt, you'll get up. So we know one thing about it. the pair of them. They will get up if they go down. And if you heard them, that sometimes wakes them off.

The only thing with Wilder, he has keep you down power. Yeah, he does it. That's the difference. And I mean, whether he still, he hasn't shown it for a long time or that. And again, that's the, that's the beauty of this fight. He hasn't shown what his superpower is, we haven't seen it for a while. But it's got to be there somewhere. He's just got to believe that he can still do it.

And I think that's why, for him, it's more mental and physical. For Derek, it's just get fit. For Deonti, it's get that mindset right. And it's a beautifully pulled fight. The superpower's got to be there somewhere. Now, call that with Callas Auerland, who's the coper motor of the show, alongside Frank One. We're here from Frank One in a moment. And I started speaking to Calla.

And the first thing I had to go through was, I said this, I said, Callag, listen, if I had told you six weeks ago, the 49 fight Del Boy Tizorah is going to fight 49 fight Deonti Wilder. It will sell out the O2 between the 82 years of a year. all those knockouts, all those stats. What would you say? Have a listen to this. You're going to love it. I'd say you hacked my phone.

Bunchy, it's pretty much how it went down. You know, the fight was suddenly came on the radar. And I'd been following a little bit the wilder music discussions. And I'm like, well, I don't know, he's got a fight left with another promoter with Frank. But then I saw Eddie talking to him as. well so I thought I'm not so sure about that and I said yeah I said look we've got other things to be honest that we're trying to focus on at the moment I said this sounds amazing yeah but I said kick it on but keep it well away from me until this is a

reality about two weeks later so now we're minus four weeks yeah both fighters agree and I'm now obviously now I've got to talk to lawyers and find out what do we need to know and you know things like that backgrounds are boxing and And then I started thinking, how big is it? I mean, Chazora Wilder, the paper, it's a very good fight, very interesting fight. But does something happen? But now my juices as a promoter starts to get going. And I'm thinking, hold on, they're both on 50 fights, it's 100.

That's magical. That's a magical number. But then when we really talk about, and Bunce, you're one of the biggest boxing historians in the world, you talk about this generation heavyweights. We could have lots of arguments how good it is, not good it is, whatever. It's been very entertaining. Absolutely. It took off thanks to Tyson Fury beating Vladimir Klitschko in Dusseldorf.

10 and 11 years ago. That was their generation. Absolutely. You know, that was the Klitschko generation. And now it's the next generation, you know, spearheaded by Tyson Fury, Deonté Wilder, Anthony Joshua, Uziq coming in in the last three, four years. And 10 other fighters, 15 other fighters. 15 other fires.

Yeah, and 10, 15 other fires. The one, but the names that are constant, constant throughout that time are Wilder and Chisora. And very, very different reasons. I mean, I promoted Del Boy, I'm sure you were there. Genseleneas or someone up. Getsalinius in Helsinki all those years ago. 13 years ago.

An absolute robbery. Yeah. And, you know, but Derek's been in there with, you know, with all the guys in. 20-odd top 10 fighters in the last 15 years. And then you look at, you know, Deonti. 10 consecutive world heavyweight defenses. So now I'm really thinking, oh my God, this is really like,

this is obviously it's a super interesting fight. They're both in their twilights of their careers, but they're there with very different stories of it. But one thing's clear. After this night, one is leaving us, leaving the sport. Right? One walks away. One walks away.

It's Bacheli. It's time to say goodbye. It's bells and whistles. Oh, you're selling it. But am I? Am I selling it? I'm not really selling it. You don't need to.

That's the story. I don't need Calais sitting there or Frank sitting there. Whoever's sitting there. That's the truth, Bunce. It's just, that's what it is. So instead of going last man standing, which I've promoted about 155 times in my career, you know, we've all done a last man standing, you know.

Along with no retreat notes for anything. What's the other one? I love a battle of something. Battle of filling a gap. Of course, of course. Bad blood. Bad blood. But this one, we just went with 100.

I'm a big fan of the movie 300, so it's that sort of stuff. But it's the 100th fight. At that level, like, that's a piece of history in itself. Someone said to me quite rightly, what are you talking about? What's it history? I said, mate, don't ask me now, if you're in the 0-2 on April 4th or watching it on Deson, you will be watching piece of history. Don't ask me the next day.

Tell me in 10 years' time. That was their last fight. Because I had a little look of the fights between top heavy weights that come to even close on numbers. Obviously, it's a bit out. You can't really do it with Archie more because he had a zillion fights.

Foreman makes it easy because he had 70-odd fights. But otherwise, they all fall short all the great clashes between good heavy weights. This is, I'm not saying it's unique, 82 years of age combined, 60-odd knockouts. 98 fights

The stats, if you look at it. It's beautiful. You think you're talking about a whole card. In fact, we've probably had cards with fewer fights. He'll have to look that one up. And add to that, this isn't boxing. This isn't boxing, Muzzy. It's heavyweight boxing.

And it's, as my old man always taught me, it's a very different sport. You pay different from them as well, by the way. Yeah, no, by the way. You know, they earn very different. But it's the, it's the, the king's, class. You know, I've spoken to both the boxers, and I've got to

tell you, Deonti Wardo especially, he sounds like a fresh and younger, more determined and focused Deonti Warder than I've spoken to for about six or seven years. In his last few fights, I did those out in Saudi Arabia, the two defeats, Joseph Parker, Shillet-Lay-Jang. He wasn't there. He couldn't make eye contact

colour. He wasn't really there. The Deonti Waila today, is like a youthful version of him. It's like a guy from seven years ago who's hungry to get to the title. I was really relieved to hear that. again, they've had very different journeys here. To get where we are. Deonti Wilder, Ring Magazine Reesley stayed.

Hardest punching heavyweight of all time. We've all got opinions, but that's just what they put out there. A very recognised publication, of course. So he's one of the biggest punches of all time in the sport. That hasn't gone away. That doesn't just go away. Never does. Never does.

His career, of course, has had a downturn since he lost the belt. since the big Fury fights. But at the same time, he seems to have really rediscovered. Like a different man. You team lived like a different man. Now, my old man's told me when he goes for his Hall of Fame weekends over in Canastota and America and has all the box around it. Deonté's always there.

And he spent a lot of time with him. And he said to me a few years ago, say, Caller, Deonté's biggest problem is the nervous tension. He said, and I said to my dad, I said, look, you know, obviously got a few years experience for me in the sport so what would you mean by that? And he's saying,

well, if you burn that sort of energy off around the fight, no matter how fit a fighter you are, you will come into that ring. You'll suffer. You'll suffer in the later rounds. And guess what? We were talking all about the big uniform in the second fight.

And it affected you. It seems like a very free... It seems like a different character. I'm not over-hacking it, I'm telling you. So totally. But then we look at across the ring. Derek.

Who also looks and sounds different. Steve. I released Derek. No. Seven years ago. Six years ago when he started working with David. Hey, he came to me, said, look, I've got one fight levels for Derek.

Go on, son. Great time. Off your crack. Thank you. And I thought, that was here. This game over. Especially when he walked in with David, who I promoted as well.

And I thought, those two together, this is going very wrong. Every nightclub in London's going to do really good business out of this. But the gyms ain't going to do much out of it. But to be fair, David turned it round for him. He did, yeah. He turned it round. Whatever they did, those two phones.

Two crazies together. Exactly. And you know what? I watched on it, not with zero bitterness. You often have bitterness when you lose fighters or release fighters. And he goes, well, I loved it. Because it was such a weird company. Because it was down.

But he's just gone from strength to strength. And he really plateaued, his career plateaued. Everyone knew Derek, you know, Derek has never changed what he does. He gets in your face. He brings war, as he puts it. But that's what he does. It does what it says on the tin.

What he does better now, he does it with an engine where you feel he can go 15 rounds. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And that's... Thought we two. So, you know, so it's now a genuine,

and, you know, we'll all have our opinions on it. But I think everyone can agree to call it a 50-50. is not wild. If you would have said that to me five years ago, I would have said Buncey.

90, 8.20. But this one you got wrong, right? And it's just, you know, so it's, and we haven't had the first press conference. Caladare, I think, telling it as it is, that this is a fight

where the two of them inevitably will just end up standing and fighting. Yeah, I think. So I think, so I think while there are trying and keep it long and Chazora got to get close. I mean, you don't take a boxing expert to figure that out. But what Chazora wants to...

He wants Warder, the punch from the hip. Now, Wiler gets speed from that jab for the hip, but Derek's favourite punch that overhand right. Now, early in his career... This is why Derek's a deceiving puncher. His stats would say he's a good punch, but not a... No, no, he's devastating, puncher.

But early in his career, he was punched with the inside of that glove, with the right hand over the top. He threw it over the top, you wouldn't turn the hand over. Now he is. He's saying, people. same speed that he had as a younger guy

otherwise he's punching correctly now yeah but I think he's punching heavier now and I think with the guy who's tall not heavy so he can't absorb the power as much and has that left hand low if Derek can slide in close and throw that right hand over the top I think he gets a free shot every time he does it if he can get it right

so for Wilder it's about punching with mean intentions but from length and interesting comment here from Cala talking about his father Wilfrid Sauerland the father the father of German boxing promotion the father of German boxing, he's been in the Hall of Fame for an awful long time,

and his father telling him that when he has these conversations with Deonti Wilder, when they're at the Hall of Fame in Canistota, the one thing that he's worked out is just basically how tense Wilder can be before a fight. And he loses so much energy because he's so anxious and so tense. Well, I've seen that in the build-up to certainly the second Fury fight. He was not good that week. He was really on edge that week. But what he seemed to me, Barry, when you could hear it in Wilder's voice,

he just seems like a calm a man now. Yeah, but I don't think that's any good. I don't think you don't want him to be calm. I think you want him, you want to wrung out that ring looking to take his head off and that belief. Like, let me show you what I got now. And I mean, not wasting the energy,

but everything being like, I'd have him in the car, in the changing room, gearing him up. Get him, get him, get him, get him, you've got to go and get him. Don't let him wait to come to you. You go get him. You go get him.

Don't give him a chance to get in this fight. You can knock him out in one round. He has the power to do that to anybody. So, I mean, one punch, one round. If you've shown, when you haven't shown for a while,

I'd go back to that again, but still, I'd have him like that. All this waiting, waiting too long, might get him back to the more we've seen recently and too relaxed

and that belief starts to wane if you get caught with a shot and I put you under pressure. If you take the initiative, that belief comes back and with that belief, then you start throwing with conviction and with conviction with him

it means good nights for anybody. Now one man in the box of business who knows Deonti Wilder better than anybody, probably better than Deonti Wilder knows himself is Shelley Finkel. He's managing. Now Shelley's been around hundreds of great,

great fighters, half a dozen, really, really exceptional heavyweights. And I started a little chat with Shelley, and the first thing I put to him was, did he feel, did he feel that Deonti gets enough respect as a heavyweight and especially for what he's achieved in the ring so far? Well, it's something that either happens or doesn't. I feel he should. If the public doesn't, I think in time they will. I think when he stops, as they thought he had now,

You know, the heavyweight division in the U.S. is very quiet. There's no excitement to it. Deonti, when are you coming back, when are you doing this? It's an exciting fight with Chasora. We don't take it lightly by any stretch. But if he can do what we think he can, there'll be another big thing right after him. That's the thing with Deonti.

I know that, you know, he's always made jokes about people have to concentrate for 36 minutes of a 12-round fight. I have to concentrate for two seconds. to land a punch. But that's still true. I don't know there's been a couple of defeats. And, you know, there's four or five defeats or four defeats in the last, whatever his fights. But he's still de Jondi Wilder. And he still seems to have the desire, Shelley. Well, he seems to have it more now. He's gotten himself physically back. Oh, in the time that he was off. He had his shoulder repaired. No excuses.

Yeah, of course. They're just facts. These are facts. And he, you know, he's like, to me, a big Tommy. Hearns. He has this talk that when he hits, he knocks you out. Tommy was the same way. He had some spectacular knockouts of Duran

and Pepino Cuevas. Great fighters, great knockouts. Yes. And I believe that Deonté is that. I am no excuses in the Fury fights but they didn't see the best Deontes. And I know

his desire right now. And we'll see. I spoke to him both before the Zhang fire and the Parker fight in Saudi, both of those fights he lost. And I didn't sense the same kind of fire and enthusiasm. I think you were probably at both of the interviews. I mean, the Deonti Wado I spoke to today is a different Deonti Wara than the man I spoke to before those two fights. Has something changed? Well, Joseph Parker said it to him last week. We were at the ring awards. Oh, in New York. And he says, I didn't think you were right when you for him. And he wasn't? Right. Yes, a lot has changed.

Both in his personal life, he was going through a lot. And when you're knocking almost everyone out, you almost take it for granted this is going to happen. And I didn't like that he would be behind after six rounds or seven, and then boom. Relying on a knockout. Yes. The Ortiz fight is the big one for that.

Well, that, but what about Spilker? Yeah, so same thing, yeah, yeah. If we forget that, well, oh, oh, oh. early on. Yeah. Now, it's good to have him back. I agree. Back in that frame of mind.

I agree. And I am optimistic. You'll see that translated in the ring. And it's clear from listening to Shelley there that even if we don't know really what it was, that somewhere along the line, Deontiwater has gone to some awful places, some dark places, and he's now back. And you could just sense the glee in Shelley's voice that he's back. And what's more?

He's back in style. So if someone like Shelley, and he could have been. economy, I don't think he was. That was him. That was Shelley saying, you know what? He's in a good place Steve. And I think he needs to be. Good. So why? Because I think it boils onto this. If we can get a peak close to a peak

DeAndre Wander, I think it's a too difficult night for Derek. Because Wilder, even though he's still 40, he's very massively just athletic. So he can still get that bumps to his step and get that speed in his work. So I think that makes it a hard in Philadelphia, just stylistically that is.

If we see Deontiwildo, we've seen recently, I think that it walks right through him. I wouldn't say a breeze, but he'll walk right through him. If there's nothing to stop there for coming forward, you can't beat him. The one that went out against Zhang, the negative one against Parker. And because, bear in mind,

Wilder's, even though he's athletic, he hasn't got the technical ability, or he hasn't shown that, that a fury has, that he can pivot and spin and always create the space to overlay you as you come forward. So he can't do that. So if he hasn't got that, if he's the

wild have you seen, he's recently, I think Derek bulldozes him in impressive fashion. So I think, to depend, to me, it depends on what Wilder turns up, to what fight we get. Yeah, it does, but we will indeed get something special. Everyone's not just, I'm saying it. I think everyone just knows it will be, no way. So I called up with Frank Warren, and I put it to him that this is basically as a history fight.

There's lots of the stats tell you it's a history fight, but it'll also be a very special night. Well, it is. You got, this is their 50th apiece. It's beautiful. And you've got a formal, was he, six years, seven-year world champ. Ten defences, Frank. Ten defences. I mean, which is a bit of a record. Statistically, is the hardest punching heavy weight ever.

When you look at the amount of knockouts he had on his record. And he's lost three of his last four fights, or four of his last five fights. So he's fighting for his career. This is it. And for both of them, this is it. You've got Derek who Thirthian losses on his career but has always been there

always given a great account of themselves fought for world titles just not quite done it but he's hit a real purple patch of form and here they both off this is you know we say it on a lot of occasions

you know the winner goes nowhere sorry the loser goes nowhere the winner goes on in this case it's a fact the loser's done it's finished Frank, are you been surprised by the public's love for Derek? Because, you know, Derek's a hot and cold fire.

You know, he's been a bit over the years, he's been on a bit of a roller coaster, and he's done this, and he spat water in Vitalia's face before that fight. He's been involved in that bit of turmoil, paid the bull this amount of money, vanished here, lost that fight when he maybe could have done something different. But the public love him. The public love him. I think it's the last couple of years, isn't it?

He's indeed himself to the public, because probably, you know, he gets in the ring, he gives everything. He gives everything, and as I say, he's on a little bit of a role at the moment, and this is a big, big moment for him. This is a big moment. And I'd be interested to see how people, you know, or how the bookmakers see this, I'm quite interested in the betting on this fight. Well, Wilder sounds fresher, sounds more focused and sounds more motivated than he has been since before the first few fight.

He went off to Columbia, I think it was, doing the old Hiawaska trip. Yep. And I think that may, I don't know if it affected him or not. I think he's had a lot of problems privately. Yep. And he seems to be in a good place at the moment. Shelley told me he's never seen him in such a good place for many, many years. We will see if that reflects in his performance.

You know, look, one thing for sure, if he catches you, you're in trouble. He's a big puncher. And Derek's knocked a few over in his side. So, you know, for me, and looking at styles, they say styles make fights. The thing is with these guys, neither of them move like they used to when they were younger. It's a different fight. It would have been 10 years. A bit like me.

So I think it's going to be the bell goes, center of the ring, and it's going to be a, it's basically giving me a shootout. Now, frankly, we talked about it being the 50th fight. Derek's talked about this being the last fight, this being the last fight. Wilder probably will have to walk off if he loses. but Derek's going to be knocking on your door, isn't he, on the Monday after this fight if he wins. If he wins, if he wins, if he wins, this is a big moment for him. He want to win his fifth to a fight.

He knows, he said this is his last fight. Like he said, his last fight was his last fight. And the moment before that, I think. And so we'll see. We'll see what happens. I mean, you know, the winner of this will see themselves in some sort of big, big fight, maybe a well-type fight.

Who knows? If Usset gives up one of the belts, who knows. And, you know, this is it. This is the twice. highlight of their careers. And they want to, and one of them, both of them want to go out on a high, one of them will, and one of them won't. And

just quickly, two things. Nick Ball, Brandon Figueroa, I've been warning people about this fight for about six weeks. People think that Brandon Figueroa is just another guy making on numbers. He's two-time world champion. And the only two defeats, the points defeats, one of those was really close. It's a hard fight for Nick Ball. It's a very

hard fight, especially you look at the height of him. I mean, he's used to fight big guys anyway because he's quite as, you know, he's not such, He's not a tall featherweight, but you look at this guy, he's quite a bit of a freak. He's a big, tall, rangy guy. This is going to be a tough fight. But you know what?

Nick's one of the most exciting fighters in the world. And you look at his resume, you look at his last few fights, look at the quality of the opposition, his fault and beat. There's not a lot of fighters have done that at that level in the world, let alone in Britain. So this is a tough fight. He's in his hometown, and we've done everything we can to give him all the advantage. but figure are

so I understand fancies the job Frank Warren there in my opinion just relieved to get the whole thing across the line because there was some

confusion there was some debate in there was all sorts of stuff going on it's made and I think it's the type of heavyweight fire that's the type of heavyweight fire

and I've known Frank a long time that he likes yeah of course it is characters and even though you know Frank was in the in the press comment saying listen you know

I've told Daddy for a long time you should retire Yeah, telling the truth. And I 100% he has. I have. Derek didn't really talk to me for about a year. But if Derek wins and wins an impressive fashion... He'll be knocking on my door.

Frank will be thinking... Oh, no, he denied it. Del Boy denied it, Bell Boy said, no, I'm not. There's another fight for him here. I got to offer him these fights, and he'll offer him the fights. And Derek, and Derek's been open about, I fight for the money. Purely, he might love it, but purely... Only recently he'd be standing and I love it.

He always said, you've always said, you show me the money. I got a motto. My do-by motto, I knit off my Dave Rogers is, if you've got the money, I've got the time. That's Derek's motto

for this goal career. You got the money, I've got the time. You pay me, I fight. I mean, he's shown that and that's what's made him so impressive. Because he's,

he don't hide the fact. I'm a prize fighter. I will fight anywhere you give me the right sort of money. So I think if he's offered a fight of worth, another world title fight, he gets a fighter who's not a fury,

not at Alexander Husick, if those titles fragment, I think he'll take it. In all fairness, Bauda, is a little bit like you, don't matter where you are, if we offer you a few quid

to join us to put out a pod or do a live bit of radio or do a broadcast, you're there like that. Providing the money's right. You and Del Shial lots of things. Someone just wore past. I think there was a couple of quid

that could have earned there and I'm thinking, is you going to let me go? So, Barry, so it's a long way away, and it's a long way away. And as you said, if the best of this man shows up

against the worst of this man, then it's an easy fight for wherever the best man is that shows up. But during Fight Week, what would you be looking for? Let's say the Tuesday, the Wednesday, the Thursday. I don't any particular, any tales you think you might be looking for? I think so.

And again, because we know Derek, we know Derek down to a T. So he's so erratic, you can judge what he's going to do. He might just be pleasant all the way to the end and not to do nothing. Or he might just go like a lunatic on Fight Week. I think it'll be more intense. Or the mood he's in when he breaks up is the move he's in and he don't hide it. I mean, so... He's a bad actor, Derek.

And because the guy who's lost, who's not in the best form, which is certainly John DeWaldor, and it seems to be a mental block there, in my opinion, I might be wrong, I think in my opinion, it's not physical, then it's how he is. I think you have to look about how he's approaching the fight. I mean, he might try and force it.

Sometimes they force it too much and over-act. Yeah, overcomplicating. And then he's over-playing this now. Is that another? the mechanism to show how nervous you are. And if you're too timid, it's not good.

We don't see this guy is he going to be too timid in the ring. So you've got, it's hard that. It doesn't matter. What you do in fight because it's almost irrelevant

to what you are. Because you can go bed the night before the fight and when you're on your home, your demons are yours and they're yours and they control you. But I've had 49 nights,

49 nights at that point when they've got the bed on their own. But not every fight's the same thing. And one fight you're confident, the next fight you're not confident. But I mean, you win or lose a fight the night before,

I always say never. in the, never in the changing room, I don't feel like that night before. People won't tell you different, but I think it's the night before. No, no, I like the night before theory. Because if you haven't trained, right, that time on your own, because all the time with people in your camp, go on, go on, go on, go on. He's finished. It's that time you're on your own.

And then you start thinking, you know, did they train right? Did I miss that run? Have I over trained? Have I under-trained? Whatever it, the sparring, you know, all the good things are bad. You think even these two old war horses, combined age 80-2? Is that the end of your shoulder? All the good things you've done in camp.

all the things you didn't do or the bad things you did. So, no, did I start out of time too late? Did I eat too much and all that sort of stuff? And I think that's it. Am I going to get the tactics right? And I think that's where you can talk to yourself into a fight or certainly talks about your fight.

So I think fight week, we're going to see how positive he is and if he's the right frame of mind. We see the old, we honestly, the old DeAnd de Wilder against the best Chazora we can see and not for the fight fans, which is all we're all interested in really. That's a night.

That's a fight in a night. Barry, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thanks, obviously, to Deonti for finding some time. Thanks to Derek for finding some time. Callasowland, always a pleasure, Frank Warren. And what a delight to talk to Shelley Finkel. The man, I'd like to do a sit-down with Shelley,

maybe a part two, maybe even a part three. That's the kind of business he can do. It's been a special build-up, a special week, special fight. It will be quite an incredible weekend that weekend. Let me just give you a clue about what's happening that weekend just quickly. On the same night the Del Boy fights in Cardiff, Lauren Price will be defending her world. World titles live on the BBC.

And then the following night, yes, the Sunday, Easter Sunday, Jake Paul and Nikisa Baderian will launch their deal with Sky and have four British women in four World Title Fights. That's taking place at Olympia. How's that for 48 hours in the boxing business? I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. From a small village on the banks of the River Nile. Everybody called me Mohammed, but, you know, short name or nickname they call me more. To the biggest stages of world football.

Sala is more than just a player. He's an icon, a symbol, a king. Mohammed Sala represents a dream for Egyptians, for Muslims, for Africans. More than just a football player, he gave us hope. I'm Kelly Kate. This is Sporting Giants, Mo Sala. Listen on BBC Sounds.