5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Dubois v Wardley II – Fight Week Begins

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

Repeat or revenge? As fight week begins, Buncey sits down with Daniel Dubois and Fabio Wardley ahead of their WBO heavyweight title rematch. Wardley explains what he’s changed since their dramatic first meeting in May, while Dubois reveals why he’s confident of winning again. Wardley’s longtime trainer Rob Hodgins also reflects on that defeat and what it will take to turn the tables this weekend.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Hubble Space Telescope was designed to peer deeper into the universe than ever before, unlocking some of its greatest secrets. But after launch, a devastating flaw emerged. A significant spherical aberration appears to be present in the optics. National disaster. Hubble launched with flawed mirror. The BBC Space Podcast 13 minutes is telling the inside story of how NASA rescued Hubble. The future of space astronomy depends on it.

From the BBC World Service, 13 minutes, trouble with Hubble. Listen now on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get to your BBC podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. I'm not sure where to start. It's history because Saturday's fight between Fabio Wardley and Daniel Dubois is the third heavyweight title fight to take. place in Britain in one year. That's never happened before. It was also the fight of the year when they first met in May. Will it be the same? Will it be better? Who knows? I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. It seemed to be all summer. I was in a hotel somewhere in Britain,

interviewing people with the sun outside, standing by the Thames talking to guys in world title fights, in basements, dungeons talking to guys about world title fights. Well, I'm back in one of those hotels now. It's freezing cold. It's like being in the Arctic. It really is. And I'm with Rob Hodgins, who has worked with Fabio Wardley. We're never quite sure how long. It seems to be since the two of them were about five years of age. It's about 40 years of this relationship. It seems that it seems to weigh him here a little bit, Rob. Rob, first of all, I spoke to you about six weeks ago. And all was well in the camp. Fabio preparing for, I said Dentia, the most important fight of his life. Is that still the valid point in there?

I think, yeah, it's the most important part of his life. The first annual fight of the Joseph Parker to win the world title in the ring was a dream of his to do, so he gets that chance again. Yeah, because I know it's great to be a world champion, but you want to hear those words, don't you? And the new or still the champion, that's what you want to hear, because he didn't get that because of the Joseph Parker fight

being for what it was and then upgraded. Has Fab been because he's a smart fighter Fabio, And you know what I mean by that. You know, he knows how important this fight is. And he also knows how his preparation is absolutely fundamental to victory. Yeah, he doesn't change much. He's a very hard trainer. But he sits there and he thinks of myself, why did I go wrong?

He sat down with a team, Lee Wiley, Ben Davidson, what he'd done. And analyzed the first fight. Analyze it, analyze it. He made the mistakes. I think he was like a victim of his success with the knockdown. first and the first and third round knockdowns. Anyone could be forgiven for getting carried away. And the experience kind of showed there a little bit,

and I think he'd be the first to admit that. Yeah. I know, and in all fairness, if he just said, I ran out of steam, if he just said it was the cut on the nose, the blood, which was the reason for the stoppage in the end. If he had just said that,

then I think you'd have been missing the thing, that it was experience, what we might call pedigree or grade, has Daniels got that just bit of extra depth. And obviously Fabio, with his white collar background, was just like a bit of sort of ring-generalmanship. You know what I mean?

Just like it may be. Experience took over a little bit. I think Daniel's been there and done him before. Daniel's been in with the high caliber fires. And Fab will understand that. And I think Fab had him down. It was kind of a blessing and a curse at the same time because he had him down in the first round.

And I think he thought, right, I can get him out of here any time I can. And I think experience come through there. No matter what you tell him in the corner, and he's like, okay, cool. I can get him out of here, dropped him in the third. and, you know, just maybe just stick to the plan a little bit more. And there comes a point also in a fight like that. And it happened with Moses Atama, I believe.

And I was talking to Ben Davison about that, of course, it's in both corners. Where there came a point, say, after six rounds or so, where Fabio might still have been in front, but he might not have had six rounds left in him, even though he was in front. So it's very easy to say, why didn't he just wander around and box? A, he doesn't do that. And B, might not have had six rounds of wandering around and boxing

and stick it to basics anyway, Rob. Yeah, I think like with Daniel, the more the fight got on, Daniel got confident. Daniel got through the first round, and I still think he'd come out and box very well after that flash knockdown in the first round. And I think with Fabio, he knew he was over-sendous with that right hand, and he was missing. And as you know, well, Steve, it takes a lot out of you as well.

Yeah. So going into this one, he's worked obviously a lot in the gym, but a lot in his head as well, a lot of thinking, a lot of planning. And I caught up with Fab and had a quick chat with him, Not out in the sunshine, so that was good. Just somewhere a little bit more. What we'd like to do, if we go to a hotel, we'd like to make sure we get a room that's got plenty of echo.

Here I am with Fabio. Fabio, we spoke about six weeks ago, and you were getting ready, your head was in the right place. Now we are down to the last few hours. Can you sense a difference in yourself? Something different that hasn't been in any of the previous fights? No. You're just fab.

Yeah, again, I can only ever speak for me, but my mantra and my way of going about things has always been very much the same and there's always been to keep it as familiar, low-level, casual almost as possible. I think there's already enough pressure around from the outside world, from media and everyone else. Expectation.

Expectation and the fight night itself is heavy. and the weight on it and there's all enough going on. I don't need over these next five, six days to be putting more pressure on myself. So the hard work's done. I've been in camp for God knows how long. I've been grafting and grafting and grafting. All that is done.

The pressure of that is ticked off. Now I'm just like, all right, let's just ride it to the end now. Did the camp feel different then? Camp definitely felt different. So you acknowledge that it's not just another fight. this is a, you know, a special fight. Yeah, the camp felt different. More so, though, because we made adjustments.

We looked back on things that maybe areas we slipped on, maybe things weren't right. We didn't get right the first time around, even down to little 1%, but bigger adjustments. Like I was staying away from my family for the week whilst I was training, I would go home on the weekends, and I'd go away for a week and stuff. So that was a new adjustment for me.

and the team and a new amount of dedication and commitment to the camp and to what was going on and small things down to getting a personal chef for the food and nutrition and I've always had nutritionists but it just again real fine tuning and just add into it so tiny tweaks tiny tweaks there wasn't again I'm never one for these big overhauls of we need to scrap it bin it and redo it a completely different way There was just, again, especially upon looking at the fight and the areas that I slipped and went wrong, they needed fine-tuning as opposed to, they needed a chisel away rather than a sedjammer to them. If you had to find a sentence that summed up why you lost, why did you lose then? Overconfidence.

Complacency. I'd use both those words. Yeah, both of those. Overconfidence and complacency. The sentence I used consistently through media and whenever else, and to myself, I became a victim of my own success. And I've mirrored it a lot and compared it a lot to like football, for example, of like when you end up going one-nil up in the first kind of five minutes.

And the team suddenly does this breath and relax. And then they think, yeah, done, job done. We'll crack another few win and we'll win a few nil and whatever else. And the next thing you know, you look up and it's three, one down. And you're going, hang on, what happened here? We were winning, what's going on here? And that's what I kind of mirror it with,

and that's how I feel like it well. It went, sorry, is that I got the first knock down, and I was like, okay, cool. I wasn't even too confident, overconfident by that point, but then the second one came, and I thought, right, I've reinter repeated here, and I got the same outcome. So we're on a good track here. I've got this covered.

I know what it needs to do, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, overconfidence and overcomplacency. At what point in nothing? fight did you think this is going to slip away this fight because you're honest i know that you're fighting your heart's letting your fight as you said it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't what was your expression about your head your body let you down it wasn't wasn't your heart but my heart didn't bingo yes sir at what point did you realize to use your quote your body was going to let you down yeah it was it was a it's a bit harsh it's a bit harsh no no no no towards the latest stages like

it's a there's probably a few layers to it in terms of uh the real answer of Really, when I felt like the fight started to slip away, it was probably six rounds and onwards. I was trying to get that right hand off. It wasn't landing. Consistently, it wasn't landing. It was consistently going wrong. And then I was getting caught as well.

And I was thinking, okay, this isn't working out. And then they obviously cut up my nose and the swelling of my eye. And then they just start to layer on top of each other in terms of problems, basically, things going wrong. So yeah, it was probably right. It becomes a perfect storm sort of thing. Yeah, it was. And then again, if you want to add to that,

you can as a fighter in a ring, you can clearly feel the shifting momentum. And also, I could feel the kind of build of confidence from Daniel of him starting to get his way a bit and momentum and progress forward. And don't get me wrong, it never dissuade me. I was always still in there and still going and still swinging. but at the same time

I could feel it was leaving it was slipping out of my hands When you watched it back I know you've watched it back with Rob you watched it back with Lee Wiley you've watched it back with Ben Davison to go for fine-tune things and tweak things When you've watched it back

The last few rounds are quite hard to watch I know that I'm buying your mantra It wasn't as bad as it looked Because I know that after the fight You're searching for your mother in the crowd So it's not like you're wandering around dazed and confused You're fully aware I take all that on board

but when you watch those last couple of rounds back they just seem to be they're monumental rounds their hard rounds the corner are really up against it as well because it's not you're in the ring but those three guys they're heavily involved as well aren't they yeah yeah of course they're like they're heavily involved and they're heavily invested as well

yeah massively something I've already said to especially Rob. I spent like him above everyone but something I've said over throughout today as well is that my team has not changed for five, six years or so, at least. There's not been a new addition. There's no one new that turns up. So everyone is invested, has been in the journey, has been along,

has been there for all the highs, all the wins, lived it, breathed it, been through all the moments, all the goods, all the bad. Especially with you, Fab, no disrespect. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. So they've been there and lived and lived and breathed every moment of it. So there is a different level of attachment for my team,

to me, to the fight, to the, occasion. But again, that level of trust is why I trust them so much in them scenarios. And I know there was a lot of talk around how it was kind of Petering off towards the back end of the rounds and how some people thought it should have been stopped and whichever else. But those people are in my corner

for a reason because I genuinely hand on heart trust them with my life. And they did talk about that. They had a three-way conversation about whether or not it was time to stop it or whether or not you had a another round in you. And Ben was honest enough to say, yeah, perhaps it could have been stopped the round earlier.

But then the rest of that sentence is, but it's Fabio. That's the thing, isn't it? Maybe you could have. And maybe I put it out of the bag, or maybe I don't. But even in the 10th round, like the main thing that your corner wants from you

is to show them something. Show me something you still got. If I'm getting pasted around, I'm not even returning for a couple of rounds, then there's a fair and clear answer for you. But even in the... the 10th round, I think I caught him with, it was like I caught him with a big upper cart,

spying his head, and I almost got to follow that up with a big right hand as well, and then the next thing, you know, it's all over, it's done with, my hands raised, and no one's talking about, oh yeah, it should have been stopped. Yeah, we're right to let him carry on. That was exactly the right plan.

That's a bit of a lose-lose situation. That's what I mean, it's a game of inches, and sometimes it just doesn't go your way, that's all. But what you're also doing, and I always look for this when, from Moverings, so privileged position, is that you were really focused in the corner. You know, your eye was closing, your nose was bleeding,

but you were giving bend your attention. You weren't looking away disinterested. You were focused. Yeah, look, again, you were listening. I'm listening and I'm looking because definitely at that stage as well, I'm running out of answers me personally. Because in the ring, there's a level of autonomy. There's me in there doing my own thing,

and also I've got the voices in my head at the corner saying, you should do X, Y, Z. But at that stage, definitely, I was kind of running out of answers here. I was going, this isn't working, I'm doing this, and that's not working. And he was getting stronger. He was getting better, and the situation isn't playing out how I want it to, and my eyes closing, and there's blood in my eyes, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So I am, and them 60 seconds are precious.

I want something. Come on, give me, what's the magic antidote here? Come on, give me it, give me it. But yeah, look, and again, it's not on them as a team to not come up with a magic answer for things. If I do everything wrong, it's not on them in the slightest to feed me a magic pill and it all go right. So we're getting close to the fight, really close.

Are you looking forward to it? Yeah. Is that the right? Yeah, I am. Can I ask that question? Yeah, no, I really am. I really am. And weirdly, I've probably had this anticipation

over the last few weeks of wondering whether I went up with if and well I will. Like when I get to fight week, am I going to be like, here we go again. Like, okay, like, do yourself up, we're ready to go. But actually, I got her and I'm like, yeah, here we go. Fight week, baby. Like, let's get stuck in. So, yeah, look, I'm really in the mood for it. I'm really in the mood for it.

Yeah, so Daniel's going to be the opposite corner. There's going to be seven, eight, nine, ten people in the ring. Then there's going to be three people in the ring. Daniel, the referee, and you. How's he going to come out? Because you know what you're going to do. How do you think he's going to come out? What's your gut feeling?

I think he's going to come out more aggressive, more ambitious. I think by the general vibe and gist of things that he's the words that he said from his own mouth first time around, he was a bit nervous, a bit cautious. And then he seems to be more puffed up, more for it, more at it, more having. more self-belief, have more confidence. And I think he's a very, he is, well, he is 100% a confidence-based fighter. So if he feels confident, whether that's right or wrong, he will come out in that aspect. So I do think he's going to be way more, he's going to try to be way more of the aggressor in this fight in the early stages, definitely.

The Hubble Space Telescape was designed to peer deeper into the universe than ever before, unlocking some of its greatest secrets. But after launch, a devastating flaw emerged. The significant spherical aberration appears to be present in the optics. National disaster. Hubbell launched with flawed mirror. The BBC Space Podcast 13 Minutes is telling the inside story of how NASA rescued Hubble. The future of space astronomy depends on it. From the BBC World Service, 13 minutes, Trouble with Hubble.

Listen now on BBC. The BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get to your BBC podcasts. So interesting there, Fabio talking about the end of the fight and the line is used all the long rob is it looked worse than it

was. Yeah. Because it did look bad. In the corner, there was all sorts of conversations that it looked to me between Lee Wiley, Ben and Lee missed Fabio stumbling at one point because they were talking to each other, talking about throwing the Tao in. Was that

A team effort that the end of the fight. Ben spoke to before and he said, be ready with the towel. And we were assessing Favb as well. And with the blood pouring out and the eye closed and with the stumbling, it was more fatigue. Absolutely. And I think people missed that as well.

But I get where everyone's coming for him. It could have been stopped around earlier, maybe, but knowing Favreman, what he's done in the fights before is, you know, it was pulls out of the bag. And with some rule genuses after the fight, Rob, if you don't mind me saying. So if he pulls out a shot in that last round, Just like Moses Atahua nearly took Hurgovich out

with 20 seconds before, he was stopped himself. Yeah, exactly. And Fabio could have quite easily done the same thing because he was also fatigued. Dubois, remember. Yeah. We forget how tired he was. A lot of people do forget that.

I think in the 10th round, Fabio called Dubois with a lovely upper cup, which people forget. And people ask if he stopped in the nineth hours. He missed with the right hand. He was real close to catching Daniel with the right hand after the upper cup. Well, was it hard? for you adjusting to

once Fabio had lost because you've had a great run let's get it right I know that there was the draw against Fraser Clark but you know a fight at a year contender then the great revenge instant rematch

and quick finish was it hard for you as a coach dealing with that defeat as well it was more hard on a personal level because I think that's really what I mean yeah so you know like we know that so you're going to wait

everyone's going to lose one day everyone's going to lose but it was the way that you know he lost and being in the change room afterwards, we're both upset, and it was just like seeing we've been your best friend upset.

Yeah, and I got that impression from when I was talking to you six weeks ago at London Bridge, and sometimes people can forget that in our modern business, that sometimes the relationship between boxer and coach is more than just a boxer and coach, and with you and Fabio,

it goes back to that famous football match all those years ago and stuff. So we know you've got that person, touch. Was it, I want to stick with this a little bit. I want to do with how you coped in those weeks after you personally. You're surrounded by people in theory that love you

and you're surrounded by close, close friends. But it's still hard because it's, you know, it's a big loss. I just wonder what that was like. It was harder. It was hard for Ben than me.

Yeah. It's more in the public eye and Ben got a lot of money. And Ben got a lot of stick. He got a lot of things. You know, we talked to, I talked to Ben about this recently. We done it together me, Liam, Ben. Yeah.

And the decision is all mutual. It was on the personal level It was hard Mumbling into his girlfriend And his mum afterwards They're looking at me As well Because you look after him

Yeah And they're like And he's still a boy To the mum He's still a baby That's her baby You know And his mum's very scary as he

Yeah Yeah He went to find her Didn't he know In the ring At the end of the thigh When there was a bit of confusion In the ring

And he was Looked like he was being a bit manic But I could hear him I think he was shouting down Yeah Where's my mum Where's my mum Because he wanted to show

He was okay Yeah I think that's what he did, did. He said to me, straight away off, the device said to me, I bet my mum's few men, like, she's really worried, where is she? We had to point out where she was. That's right, I remember, yeah, he had to let her know, yeah, to let her know, yeah, she had to see the camera on her, yeah, she panicked.

Just to let her know, like, I'm all right, you know, okay. He does have amazing powers of recovery, doesn't he? Fab, you know, getting hit with big shots, seemingly hurt, and then the next second he's back. He's a freak kind of human, isn't he? reminds me of the old Nigel Ben when it's her he comes out firing if he's like you know the classic

Nigel Ben knockout against Anthony Logan when his hand touches the floor and the next punch he takes Logan out I mean that's fine Barry Jones has always described Fabio as being like a Nigel Ben and I completely agree ideally we would like him to see take those punches

and he puts you further but the last few fights have been like that Justice Hooney Joseph Parker and with Daniel he's always in it as well so yes no He just seems to come at his best when he gets hurt or he gets rocked or... Well, I tell he also comes at his best when he gets hurt. And he can't...

You know, if he's in danger and if he's hurt and he's wobbled or backed up, and that's Daniel Dubois. And also spoke to Daniel, and obviously he is the champion. He ran with Daniel Dubois. Daniel, it's another big fight week. When you were young, did you imagine you'd be involved in all these world title fights, all these weeks, all these sold-out venues? That's like a dream for a boxing,

kid, isn't it? It was a dream. Now I'm living the dream. So it's been a great journey. It's like we've been here so many times. Big fight on Saturday, world title, either outdoors or indoors, and big crowds. I mean, it's a bit unreal for me, because I can remember you when you were just

a little bit younger and a little bit smaller. And look at you now. World Heavyweight Champion again, selling out major arenas. What's that feel like that? been a journey I'll tell you what it's like when it's done but right now it's a great roller coaster ride

and does it feel like a roller coaster ride like you obviously you expect to win but you know there's rollercoaster there's going to be ups and downs I mean just not even to do with boxing just in life in general it's just a roller coaster you know you've had a fast life haven't you

because you seem to be 18, 19, 20 forever and ever it was like so those early years when you first turned professional those were so many big nights you had so early in your career yeah yeah preparing me for today I think that's what they were just preparations when did you let me ask you this

when did you first feel pressure before a fight or have you never felt pressure when did you actually feel pressurized I've got to perform I've got to win and what's more I've got to look good I think my first fight ever as an amateur fighting in front of my dad and a few people that know me and stuff, stuff like that. Can you remember where that was? Can you remember how much you weighed?

Some working around the club somewhere. I can't remember. Full of smoke? Yeah. One of them ones. So you probably got a trophy about four inches tall? Yeah. Did you keep some of your junior trophy?

We've got some of them. Somewhere in the house. Yeah. Do you keep your belts out on display in your house? Because you're very private, so no one knows what you're. your house looks like. Yeah. Are they in cabinets on the wall?

Yeah, we've got collection. We've had a few more belts over the years, so yeah, good collection. Do you miss those? Because you've been under pressure as a pro the whole time. You've been under scrutiny, and people have been talking about what you're going to do, what you're going to do. Do you miss those innocent amateur days, Daniel, jumping in a car and going and boxing in a working man's club?

Not really, but they would just, they make you, don't they? Those moments make you for today, prepare you for today. So, yeah, they're just, I guess, yeah, just great preparation, really. And some of the pro fights prepare you. So, Daniel, this is this the best version of Daniel now? And that's because of the hardships. That's because of the wins and the losses. But to this point, isn't it?

That's right. That's right. You know, get me prepared for this for this day. And Daniel, is it simple to say that you just have to do what you did last time? Well, do you have to be a lot better than you were last time against Fabio? It's not about that. It's not about that. I feel like the way I approach this fight is just make easy work of him.

He's not in my league. He's not on my level. Make easy work of him. And start faster? I do what I have to do. Yeah. Do you play the fight in your head? You know, when you're sitting with Don Charles after you've trained.

Do you go over what it would be like, first. round, second round, third round. Do you go through it like that? Do you do that visualization thing? And as it changed since you went back into the gym? I just know that I'm going to make easy work of him. He ain't got power. He ain't going to be able to take my punches

when I'm landing accurately on his jaw. And I'm just going to wipe him out of there. Now is that the power talking or is that the Daniel with a pedigree, with the amateur pedigree, with the skills, with the experience talking? Yeah, that's Daniel talking. mate, this is their fighter,

fire through and through. We quite like when Daniel pops up every now and again because there's like normal interview, then suddenly Daniel pops up. We like it when, I like it when Daniel appears. Yeah. He's the one that starts telling people

how the fight's going to end. Sure, for sure. In that first fight, Daniel, because it was a great fight. I mean, and it was made a great fight by your comeback after the first three rounds and you're slowly boxing your way into the position of power,

than the stoppage and his bravery and his guts and all the blood. It was an unbelievable fight to watch. At what point did you know you'd turn that fight around in the first fight? When did you realise then? From the first battle, really, I mean... Even though you're on the floor. Yeah, from the first bell. You know, I came there for a battle and I got what I expected, really.

Yeah, you did talk before the fight that you knew it was going to be a hard fight. You knew it was going to be, well, two men very proud. going head to head. Now, this step was another fight where your father came to ringside. Came to ringside in the first, about the, I think he came to ringside at the end of the first round and ended the second round.

And just, I think he told you, correct me if I'm wrong, to just do what you know. Just do what you know. I can't remember, but yeah, if he said that, he said that. Because at the end of the fight, when you were celebrating in the ring, he didn't go in the ring,

he was sitting outside, just shaking his head. Yeah, that was a good battle, wasn't it? Yeah. You quite like that good battle, don't you? In a kind of mad way. Yeah, I'm definitely mad, but yeah, I'm going to smash them up this time. That's all I know. Is there any danger that you could be overconfident, Daniel?

Never. Never. How can you be overconfident? This is fighting. This is what I've done since I was seven years old, so. It's in me. I just need to bring it out. And you know, as a fighting man, that you can hurt someone, but you can also be hurt yourself?

That's the game is, um, listen, I can't be hurt. I can't be hurt. You can't be changed, can you? You're determined to do what you've got to do. Yeah. And in this rematch, he's the one that has to change. Is that fair comment? No, I told you already, I'm going to smash him up. So it makes no difference what it does? I told you already, I'm going to smash him up. He ain't got no power.

I'm going to break him down. And is job done. And are you still searching for Usik after this? Is that that redemption thing you talked about over the last 18 months? I'm not really looking for Usik. I'm whoever's next. You're not whoever comes next.

Because there's a lot of them. So, Daniel, let me ask you this final question. And thanks for your time. Who would, in an ideal world, you beat Fabio Wardley at the O2? Who would you fight next if you could pick a person? And where would it be?

I don't think I was to look too far. there's Cabillo fighting. There's a lot of fights happening right now. I've just got to take care of business on Saturday and the world's your oyster. That's Daniel Dubrador, obviously very confident. He doesn't say a lot, Daniel. That's just a fact.

I want to talk now specifically about preparing for a rematch and this is a bit too harsh. Put him right what went wrong. So you're correcting things. You may be working on. They say not overreaching with right hands, being a bit more cautious going forward.

forward. Did you, do you and Lee and Ben literally compile a list of bullet points or is it just... Well, we're fabulous. We go through the good points as well as the bad points. Of course, yeah. And there's a lot of bad points in the fight where he didn't stick to the corner, the corner stand some stuff where he knocked Daniel down.

Is that because he wanted to finish it? I think he did that's when he landed that shot in the third round. Yeah. I think he should look over to the corner a bit, meet Ben and Lee were talking to him saying, okay, this is what to do. You do that this time? Yeah. So look over there.

Just make sure. Have a little look over to the corner if you're getting a knock down. Make sure you stick to the plan. If you do drop him early, you know, he hasn't changed much. We just pointed out where he should have stayed disciplined in between the rounds we lost.

Yeah. So actually, so the tank is okay. I mean, you can empty the tank by doing too much too early. So just a little bit, I suppose the word is a little bit ring smarter. Would that be fair to say? Just being a bit smarter.

Doing the same sort of stuff, but just smarter. I think Daniels, the more the fight went on, Daniel's ring IQ was brilliant and Daniel's a great fighter and we know Daniel's a very confidence fighter and when he starts to improve in a fight which you saw against Herkovich

he was, I thought he's behind and getting picked off the referee went to the corner and told his corner I want to see something from Daniel this round or there's not going to be another round and he hurt Herkovich got the cut, I know the cut

but he hurt Herkovich and when he picked up on that he was like Daniel we know he's a confidence fighter So our job is to make sure Daniel questions himself, you know, stick to our plan, stick to what we do. So Rob, as we get closer and closer to the fight, you've got a whole week of commitments. That's the new way with modern heavyweight championship,

world championship boxing. Can you start to enjoy the week and look forward to the fight? Or is that something you just can't do? Or you've never done? Me, myself, never. I won't enjoy it until afterwards. It was over. Fabio loves the media week.

loves being he loves the you know he's relaxed for the whole week yeah he does all the he does all the relaxing for both of us as there has there been a slight change in it i don't mean you know he wasn't serious then he's serious now but because you're the closest person in the boxing business the fabio wardly has there been a slight change in this build-up and certainly the last four or five days i'm going to say yes not with the training ethics of it i think he didn't cut corners i think he didn't cut corners. I think he's got a little bit of a bee in his bonnet now. He went into this fight as the first

time ever as the favourite, the Joseph Parker fight. He's big on that, isn't he? And he relishes this underdog role. He likes it, doesn't he? And he likes it as well. And he's like, he's got a bit of a bee in his bonnet now. A little bit more spite and training him. That's good. And more spite for Fabio Wardley. That's quite a dangerous proposition, isn't it?

Yeah, it'd be good to have on a night. Listen, Rob, it's been a pleasure talking to you today. It's been, in fact, it's been pleasure talking to you throughout the career of Fabio Wardley because I don't care what I tell people when I do Five Live I say this kid's extraordinary you know this white collar background and this kid who I saw in fights learning I remember what the Fraser Clark fight from ringside he wasn't he was doing stuff in the third round that he

wasn't doing in the full frame because he wasn't making those mistakes yeah he's learning on the job it's so for him in a deep end he has learned he says that a lot he's learning actually on the job where people have to transition from amateur to pro. He's actually gone from there. He's learned on the job. He's like, okay, cool, I don't need to go to college. I'm just going to get an apprenticeship

and start from there. And start straight away with a masters. Listen, Robert, it's a pleasure talking to you throughout the week and Saturday night. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. My pleasure. So that was Rob Hodgins there,

who's been with Fabio for an awful long time. Through as the cliche goes through thick and thin. Now, you're probably thinking, it was a great fight, wasn't it? I remember that fight. It was a really good fight. It was a really good fight. Well, don't take my way.

word for it and don't let your memory serve you only. Have a little listen to an interview I did post-flight, maybe six or seven minutes after it was finished, with the world's true heavyweight promoter, Frank Warren. And I say that because over the years, Frank Warren's promoted Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Vitaly Clitchgo, Ante Joshua, co-promoter, Tyson Fury promoter. He's promoted all of them. And he said after that fight, well, listen, I won't tell you. Have a listen to this. This is Frank Warren after the fight talking to me in the ring. Frank, I'm not quite sure we're to start, to be perfectly honest of you. Why don't you start with you witnessed something special tonight, ultra special.

Two men bearing their hearts and souls in the ring gave everything. Didn't leave one bit outside the ring. It was just the most amazing fight, most amazing heavyweight fight I have ever been put on. It was just, I don't know what, I don't know, the shots they took. Both of them. monitor in between rounds, they were getting hit with bombs that would take people out and they stood it. And I'd never ever want to hear anything about Daniel Dubois.

That's what Don Charles has just said. Hit on the top of the head. You know, and that's what happened with him against Kevin Lorain. Absolutely. And he came, he got up and grit his teeth and come back into it. And it was, you know, he just had to show what he was about, as did Fabio. You know, Fabio's an most amazing,

amazing man. As it was going on round, Frank, seven and eight and nine, and just that intensity and the degree of suffering and sacrifice, it was, it just went to a different level. It just, it went somewhere where we've never been.

And these fights like this are, thankfully, you know, as a punter you're seeing, but you don't really want fights as in fights like that. I mean, these are, these are, These are going right into their soul. They're bearing their soul.

Everything, gave everything. You know, the determination, the will to win. You know, neither of them taking a backward step. It was amazing. So that was Frank Warren there, comparing it to Hollywood. And it felt like that. We felt like we were witnessing something special. Will Saturday night be the same?

Might it even be better? That seems ridiculous. But hey, stranger things have happened in the boxing ring. It's another world heavyweight championship fight in Great Britain. The third one this year. That's a record in itself. It's live on Five Live from 10pm. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing.

I'm Steve Bracknell, assistant manager of Sunday League powerhouses, the Royal Oak FC. And this season, we're aiming for promotion to Division D of the Shire. Jeffield Sunday Imperial League. We are absolute dance at bear bones. In light of the fact, we only had 10 players on Sunday. Beggars may not be able to be chooses in this occasion.

Throughout our 13th year history, this might be lowest point. Games Gone. The Steve Bradnell podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Hubble Space Telescape was designed to peer deeper into the universe than ever before, unlocking some of its greatest secrets. But after launch, a devastating, floor emerged.

The significant spherical aberration appears to be present in the optics. National disaster. Hubble launched with flawed mirror. The BBC Space Podcast 13 Minutes is telling the inside story of how NASA rescued Hubble. The future of space astronomy depends on it.

From the BBC World Service, 13 minutes, trouble with Hubble. Listen now on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You know.