5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - From the Sublime to the Ridiculous

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Richie Woodhall joins Buncey to pick through the bones of a busy weekend. They get stuck into the main event in Dallas where Jake Paul beat Mike Tyson after the pair completed eight rounds in Dallas. They both agree they never want to see the former heavyweight world champion in a ring again. The highlight of the night was the fight between Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano, with Taylor winning a unanimous points decision. And we ask where it went wrong for Chris Billam-Smith as he lost to Gilberto Ramirez in Riyadh.

This is Five Live Boxing. There was always a danger that this pod could start with me being serious. Looking back on Mike Tyson's return to the ring at 58 years of age, and perhaps giving you some really bad news. We'll forget that because Tyson floated through eight easy rounds. 16 minutes of boxing. Doddle, it wasn't the apocalypse. Trust me, Katie Taylor was brilliant,

and Chris Bill and Smith lost his world title. That, my friend, is a lineup. I'm Steve Bunth, and this is Five Live Boxing. In the last few years, the cellar last 10 years or so, I've sat on the edge of cliffs in Saudi Arabia, proper mountain cliffs waiting for lions to come, that type of stuff. I've been on the tallest buildings in Las Vegas. I've been on a beach in California. I've been in different gyms. I've been in basements. I've been in cellars. I've been kicked out of diners at 4 a.m. This is the first time I've ever done the pod in my dining room with a fire. gently crackling off to the left and a roast chicken

and the greatest roast potatoes you've ever seen in the kitchen right now. In fact, when Paddy the producer and Ritchie walked into my house, the first thing they said was, that smells good and they were right. They absolutely were right. That's enough food and fire talk. And with Richard Woodh all today, and Ritchie,

I've got to say, we've got plenty of things to talk about. But first of all, how are you doing? And don't worry, the spuds and stuff will be coming soon. I'm good, thanks Steve, and yeah, I walked into your lovely home. And what a lovely aroma of roast chicken and those red vegetables that were cooking away. From the garden, by the way. And then I walked into a beautiful dining room and the fire's on and it's just fantastic.

You know what that is? Because Paddy said to me, we'll come up to you and do the pod, Buncey. But I suppose it'll just be sound. You know what, Pat, I'll do your roast on. You're making the journey. I do your roast. Richie, I think what we're doing here is we're trying to avoid that giant elephant that's sitting over there in the corner of the room, which we're going to have to talk about.

We will get to Zerdo Ramirez against Chris Bill and Smith. We will get to the unforgettable Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano rematch. But we have to first look at the exceptional, remarkable, ridiculous career and fight that involved Jake Paul and Mike Tyson in front of 72,000. thousand people and allegedly 120 million people on Netflix, 65,000, 65 million homes. Mike Tyson, Jake Paul Rich, the floor's yours. I'm going to put my feet up and go and just turn my spuds over. Well, what can you say? You know what, Steve? Through my life and my career, then Tyson was such a legend in my eyes and to see him now box against people that wouldn't even lace his gloves. And that's no

disrespect to Jake's four. But you know what, Steve, watching in box, you could see that going through his mind, the things that he wanted to do, but he just couldn't do them anymore, couldn't move that head, couldn't let those hands go the way he wanted. But you could see he wanted to do it.

He was trying to do it, yeah. How about literature? It was like he was trapped in a body. So there was Mike, you could sense Mike Tyson's brain ticking over, like all you fighters, all you top-level fighters, You're like the greatest chess players.

In a fraction, you work out 50 things in a quarter of a second, less than a quarter of a second. You work out 100 things because you don't know what you're doing. So you have an idea, I'm going to count on this right hand, I'm going to let him fall short and I'm going to throw a left to the liver. That's great. You know all that stuff. But when you actually do it, you don't know you've done it. Don't know what you're going to do.

You just do it. It's instinctive. Tyson's a massively instinctive. Twitch fighter as Barry Jones. And you could sense his shoulders twitching. I'd love to have been ringside. to somehow look into his eyes and just to have seen because that must have been killing Tyson

that he couldn't do the stuff he did when he was young Yeah, exactly, exactly that's Steve And so to see him box like that Yeah, it was quite sad really And the longer it went on I actually had a lot more respect for Jake Paul Towards the end because I thought There were times in the fight where Jake Paul

Could have put his foot down a little bit And For about round four Yeah, exactly and dished out some nasty some nasty blows, but he didn't. And I think that was down to respect, actually. And you could see him at the end. He literally, he was sp-

bowing. Yeah, bowing to him. And quite rightly so, but it should never really got to that stage for me. So here's a couple of facts and figures. Obviously, it was over eight, two-minute rounds. It was with 14-ounce gloves, not 10-ounce gloves. Jake made, in theory, $40 million.

That's $31 million. And Tyson made $20 million. That's $15 million. As I say, it was watch. by so at Netflix, are saying 65 million households so up upwards of 120, 130, 140 million.

Mike Tyson won his first world title 35 years ago, 35 years ago. And there was the revelation afterwards, and I don't, I mean, we should have done this in a different order, but it's just so much,

you just got to go through it. Where Tyson's claiming that in June, when he collapsed on a plane, which caused the fight to be pushed back, he's claiming that he had eight blood transfusions, Lost half the blood in his body and also lost 25 pounds during his hospital stay. Well, if that's the case, if that's the case, how in any boxing universe was he allowed back in the ring? Because what I saw, I mean, I'm not saying it was choreographed or fixed rich, but I did think without a doubt that Tyson pulled back on the half a dozen occasions he clipped Jake Paul.

And Jake Paul definitely pulled back on a half a dozen occasions he clipped in. There were some rounds where Tyson threw seven punches and half landed with one. And so I'm not saying it was fixed. I'm not saying it's choreograph. But I do believe they had an understanding. You're never going to find it in a contract not to hurt each other. I do believe that. Compare that, Richard.

Do you remember that when Evander Holyfield had that fight with that awful guy from the MMA, Vitor, whatever his name was, Belfort, who was a bit of a bad boy in the MMA. and he really hurt Holyfield and he went for Holyfield and he was nasty and he was aggressive stopping Holyfield inside two minutes. I don't think that was the understanding in quotation marks on Friday night

in front of 8,000 at the AT&T Stadium. I think the understanding was let's not hurt each other. And I think Steve, I think you've got to give a lot of credit to Tyson for the condition he's in at 58. By the way, yeah, that was good. It's unbelievable.

It's an incredible condition that he's in. but still at the end of the day Steve we all think we can keep just keep going but the problem you've got with boxes who think they can just roll back the years and you know be a younger man again it's taking the blows we can all dish it out anyone can dish it out

I can still dish it out but it's actually taking the blows anywhere and when you're a youngster you take that for granted you know because you take they bounce off you and you just get you get through it and you don't even think about the shots that you're taking. Some of them you don't feel.

But as you get older, that age catches up with everyone. And that's the big thing for me. You can still dish it out when you're older, but you cannot take it anymore. Rich, how old were you when you last sparred? Like halfway decent, competitive spar. I don't mean a technical 16-ounce-touching-gloves spa. When was the last time you had what...

How old were you and you maybe had what would pass as a genuine spa? Genuine sparred. It had been about 31. Right at the end of my career. So you never got, you never fell into, in the last 25 years, you know, just, I still got it and having a little move around with it. No, not at all. Because you know that the punch resistance is gone or going.

Yeah, because the big difference that I noticed with my own body, the transformation was, I went really soft. Your tissue goes very soft. So when you're actually boxing. So all the stuff that was very hard on your body and your chest on your legs just goes quickly because you're not doing the same training. You're not eating the same way. Because you're not living as a boxer anymore.

You go slithfully soft and you go very, the tissue is very soft to touch, very cushiony if you know what I mean. You just press. And that, you see, when you're boxing, you don't realize how actually tough your body are. And that's why you take the shots the way you do. As soon as you stop that training

and you stop the sparring where you're not used to those shots anymore, then when you come back in, I mean, I haven't come back into it, but I know myself that I just would not physically be able to take the blows anymore. I can still work hard. I still work hard on the bags now. I can still do a 10-round, 10-3-minute session. No, problem at all.

But the bag doesn't hit me back. No, bags never knocked anybody out. You know, exactly. So my last spa would have been at the age of about 30-31, competitive spa. There's no way I could take the shots now at 50-od. So Tyson did look when he wasn't throwing punches, which wasn't very often,

and when he wasn't being hit with punches, which was also not very often, he did look like the old Tyson when he was eight feet away. I mean, so much of that fight was conducted at eight feet. Talk about closed the gap. It wasn't just a gap. He needed to get a taxi. He didn't get an Uber to get close. Exactly.

You could see that going through his mind. And then he's thinking, I've got to move my head. And there was a little bit of head movement. Then he went still again. Then he's thinking, I want to let three or four combinations go across my body with those hooks. You could just see it going through his mind. You could see it. You could see it digging.

his legs in, but it was miles away. He had the will, but not the way. But the good thing is, Rich, and I saw a good thing. I'm going to be a bit positive about it. Here's the thing. He obviously clearly didn't get hurt in any way, shape or form. And at the end, he's a tough guy, he's a tough guy. He's a tough man. And he sounded fine when he was doing the interview afterwards, and he would have a whole series, whole raft of expensive tests because he can afford it with the money he's made. And it wasn't, it wasn't the apocalypse that we keep being told about. And I'll throw this out of it. I don't think losing to Jake Paul for Disney Star, YouTuber, novice boxer with whatever it is, 11 wins and one defeat.

I don't think that hurts Mike Tyson's legacy. No. I mean, that shot of his naked bum walking around in a changing room, that hurts his dignity a little bit. But no one's going to watch that and go, oh, I knew Tyson was rubbish all along. He's just lost to Jake Paul. Me personally, I don't think it hurts his legacy. It's not great for anybody.

No. But no one's going to think less of Mike Tyson. and the 20-year-old world heavyweight champion because he lost an 8-2s odd fight, fun fight to Jake Paul. That's my gut. Yeah, and I don't think so, Steve, because I agree with what you're saying.

And let's think about Jake Paul as well. He's a novice. He's a novice. He's a fit novice, rich. Yeah, he's a fit novice. You know, he's got a decent shot about him. He carries a bit of parrier in there, and he's having to go at pro boxing.

He's just a novice professional boxer at the end of the day. So I don't think it really damages is Mike Tyson's legacy, to be quite honest. Yeah, I'll just give you a couple of facts on Jake Paul. Just to say, remarkable. I mean, it's exceptional the way that he's handled his career and the profile he's given himself, and more than that, the money he's made.

Because I've got to be honest with, if he's made $40 million for that fight, you know, there's very few boxers in the world this year. Canelo, probably, AJ, probably, probably Tyson Fury, probably Ussick. That might be it. He might be the fifth highest paid boxer in the world. But Rich, here's a couple of stats and facts for him.

During the last four years during his pro career, he's jumped up and down in weight, 43 pounds to accommodate. I didn't realize that. Let me just point out some of the men he's beat. He beat a retired basketball player, Nate Robinson, who was 40. He beat a retired UFC fighter, Ben Ascreen, who was 40. Another UFC fighter, Tyrone Woodley, who was 42. another UFC fighter, Anderson Silver, who was 49,

another UFC fighter, Nate Diaz, who was 39, and then he obviously beat Tyson, who was 58. This guy has just the most remarkable self-publicist. Absolutely. Because if there was a fighter... How much money do you think he's made from all those fights? Well, I tell you what, listen, he didn't make 40 million for all of them,

but I bet we could average those at about 7 or 8 million. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I mean, the man might have made $200 million for his fighting career. And I've met him. Paddy and I, we've interviewed him in Saudi. We've interviewed him, I think maybe in Las Vegas as well. No, Los Angeles, excuse me. And I've got to be honest of you, and I'm going to whisper this.

I don't want to upset people. I like him. I like the fella. Because he's straightforward. He admits what he is. Okay, so he shouts out Canelo and he shouts out all these people. Who cares? People do it all the time.

I agree. And he went up in my estimation in terms of when he boxed Tyson. Like I said, I think at times there, he could have really sort of poured it on and maybe hurt Tyson and really went for him. But he didn't. He showed a lot of respect. Baring to him at the end, I think, yeah, just shows the respect that he had for Mike Tyson. And like I says, and I was impressed with that.

Now, Tyson said in the ring, he's going to continue. I hope he doesn't continue. And I do. Because that was, you know, as I say, if it wasn't a fix, it was heavily choreographed in some ways. The public will buy it once or twice, but they won't keep on buying. So I'd like to see him walk away. He's cleared a lot of money. He's got this massive legal cannabis business. He's making plenty of money. I like Mike Tyson, the old man, the retired guy with a twinkling in his eye, a lot better than I like the young one who, you know,

was insufferable sometimes when he had to work with him. As for Jake Paul, let him just keep on calling out all these novelty acts, you know. And all fairness, a lot of novelty acts are calling him out. Tony Bellew's thrown his name in the ring. Carl Frot. Carl Frot says, I fight in one-handed. With my fixed nose. I'll fight him. I don't care. He's not even going to fight Roy Jones, who's 55, and why should he? Because the Jake Paul business to generate zillions and zillions and zillions of pounds were taking at least amount of risk. But I feel a bit sorry for Tommy Fury.

Tommy Fury, I mean, he beat Jake Paul. He's not in on the mix. He beat testing Steve to see where he goes now, actually, Jake Paul, because he'll obviously want to continue his pro career. But as you say, I think he picks his opponents very carefully indeed. Think, absolutely. You know, and it's not a case of if the boxer's got credit, it's a case of how much money will the fight make?

And what that person, whether it's from his career in boxing or the Basque NBA or the UFC can bring to the table. I tell you what it is sad. So if you were listening in for an apocalypse chat from Richard and I were just trying to give it a little bit of sense. Of course, I don't think Jake Paul would beat Shevon Clark. Of course, I don't think, only Jake Paul might not win a southern area title at Cruiserweight. I know all of that. I'm not overlooking that. But really, I know this is a simple question.

He's not taking any money out of any boxer's mouth. Let's get that absolutely right. Because if he wasn't fighting Mike Tyson, Chevron Clark, British Cruiserweight champion, wouldn't be in the ring fighting. Let's get that absolutely straight. What he does do is the money on these big shows filters down. And that is a lovely way to start talking about what was an incredible 10 round fight.

The rematch between Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano. This time for the light welterweight belt, although it was made at 138 pounds, not 140. The last time they met in April of 2022, Madison Square Garden, when they both made a million. This time unreliably in full, they probably both made about two million,

and that's down to Jake Paul. So not only is he not taking money, not taking money from fighters or food out of their mouth, so to speak, food in their mouths and he's putting money in their pocket. So in that sense, let's wrap up the Jake Paul loving. Mike Tyson, we hope we never see you in the ring again, even if it's just to take a bow.

That's too close to the action for my liking. Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano, Rich. It was simply incredible. And that 10th round, the last 30 seconds of the 10th round, if you weren't standing up, there's something wrong with it. Yeah, exactly. It took, again, it took women's boxing to another level, Steve, in terms of the skill, the power, the ring IQ.

I thought it was a good performance from both of them. I thought Katie was probably a little bit fortunate because she had the point deducted with the head clash. What do you think about it? Was it a head clash? Well, Steve, was it a butt or just a bat? You know what I mean by the way. Yeah, I do know, but you have to remember.

I think it was just a butt. At the end of the day, Steve, you know yourself. An Orthodox versus a Southball situation, you're always going to get clashes of heads, especially when they're coming forward. A lot of the time Amanda Serrano was coming forward, and then Katie Taylor is responding with barrages of punches, and yeah, the heads clashed,

and yes, it was a little bit nasty here and there, but you always get that problem with the Orthodox Southball situation. It's a battle of that front foot, and whoever's coming forward, then they risk your wish walking onto a headball. But it was a tremendous scrap. I actually thought that Amanda Serrano was a little bit unlucky not to get it, because I thought it was very, very close.

That same kind of school. It was free judges got it in 95, 94. You would have maybe gone the other way 95. And I don't think you could have argued, Steve. No, of course you couldn't have argued. And I think because of the point deducted, I thought she was going to get it. But she didn't get it and okay.

But in terms of the intensity of the contest and the skill, man, like I said, it took women's boxing to another level, fantastic from both of them. So if you haven't seen this fight and all you've seen is stuff on social media where there was unbelievable. I'm believable screams of a fix and a this and a that and, you know, an outrageous robbery.

I mean, I'll tell you, I'll say again, what we have to say so many times on this pod is that if a fight is a split decision, if a fight is 95, 94 or 96, 93 or something like that, it's still tight and close enough. It can't be, well, it's not a fix or a robbery. Richie there has seen it 95, 94. I had no problem with it being a draw or 95-94 for Taylor, to be perfectly honest with you. But what it wasn't was an absolute travesty. It wasn't a robbery. It wasn't a robbery at all, no.

And also think about... It's 95-94 either way. You couldn't have argued either way. And here's an interesting point, Rich. You know, sometimes people on the outside of boxing just consider our business. Oh, it's fixed. It's full of gangsters.

It's full of this. It's full of that. And sometimes you try and... Sometimes I defend myself and my sport. Other times I just let them go because, you know, three minutes later, they're going to be on another side of the pub or another side of the arena.

So you let them go. But if there was going to be anybody getting a decision on Friday night in Texas, it wasn't Katie Taylor, who was the visiting fighter, who allegedly was getting a little bit less money, by the way, as well. So it wasn't going to be Katie Taylor, okay,

who wasn't involved with the promoter, okay? Jake Paul and Amanda Serrano are close. Jake Paul even lives in Puerto Rico, so he's close to. to where she lives. So they live on the same island, basically. Jake Paul's the promoter. It's all set up for Amanda Serrana.

So if it's a close fight, if anyone's going to get the decision, if it's a fixed fight, if it's not going to be a robbery, it's going to be Amanda Serrano that gets the decision. Sometimes people just open their mouth without thinking it through.

Will we see a third fight, Rich? Will we see a third fight? Katie said in the ring, we'll have a trilogy. We'll have a trilogy. I think so. I think it would have been nice if it would have been 1-1 and obviously the trilogy for the decider.

But I think both fight, the first fight as well, was a very, very close fight. What impressed me about Katie in the fight was, Serrano, I thought, was very good on the front foot going forward. But the combinations and the punches in bunches that Taylor responded with, I thought, was really, really impressive. Does she seem sharper to you, didn't she? Absolutely.

I mean, she seemed really sharp to me. Really, really sharp. sharp and she was really, really sharp in to respond to anything that Amanda Serrano did. She went back as a straightaway with threes and fours, kept it going. And like I says, it was a fantastic fight in terms of the skill, the intensity, a great advert for women's boxing. And yes, could we see it again? Yeah, I'd certainly pay to watch it again. Obviously, Amanda Serrano still would have holds a few of the featherweight belt.

She's got Sky Nicholson down there, so that's a better potential fight as well if she can get lose the 10 or 12 pound, which she's shown she can do. She's done it too many times in the past. And of course, Katie's got, I would classify it as unfinished business with Chantelle. Chantelle Cameron. So whether we actually get one day that doubling croak park dream fight, which will be Katie's walking off into the future. Me personally, like I said, after the first Chantel fight and after the second Chantel fight,

and I'll say again, if Katie at 38 decides to call it a day, oh, they should have a homecoming parade. Absolutely. Because at the end of day, Steve, fights like that, Katie is 308, you've got to ask, the question's got to be asked, how many more of those type of fights are left in her? Yeah, 19 consecutive world title fights. Yeah, she's a brilliant boxer. But the intensity in those fights is exceptional.

And that will be taking, that'll be taking its toll on her body. Let's get it right. So how many more of those are left? Maybe two? Well, she's had six, full, unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievably hard watch through your finger, 10 rounders. Two maybe three left, Steve.

Two were Delphine Pursune, two were Delphine Pursune, unbelievable. Two with Chantel, unbelievable. And now two with Serrano. So that's six fights out of thinking about the last nine, going back to 2018. That's a lot of fights at that level. And at that age.

At that age and at that intensity, that is a lot of fights. And like I said, I think she's brilliant. It was a great fight. But that type of fight, there's not many more of those left, I don't think, for Katie Taylor. And there's obviously quite a few people saying, well, she could fight Caroline Dubois. Of course she could fight Caroline Dubois. She could fight Chantelle Cameron again.

But I think she needs to maximise her money. And I think Caroline, as much as I was with Caroline two weeks ago at Shane McGregan's gym with Chris Bill and Smith, we'll talk about that fight in a second. And I think, you know, Caroline's not stupid enough to know that, you know, Caroline could very well beat Katie Taylor. With youth, experience and size and speed, no problem.

But it's not the fight that makes any sense whatsoever. And we're not in a business, we're not in a boxing business to make fights that don't make sense. Let's get it right. The first world title fight was 2018, so six and a half year

she's boxed at world level. I mean, that's quite a long time for a 38-year-old. Yeah, it is quite an exceptional. Katie Taylor has been exceptional. So that was it. That was a mixed bill. Yeah, great.

Brilliant. Fantastic. I don't think, I don't, I'm going to say it again because I want to annoy people. I don't think it was the apocalypse to Mike Tyson fight. I don't want to see him get hurt. I want to see him walk away. As for Katie Taylor, that last 20 seconds, Rich, that's just incredible. Unbelievable stuff.

And I tell you what I did notice, how exhausted they were at the end. Yeah. Now, when I got up in the ring and interviewed the pair of them in New York after their first fight, 22, April, they could barely walk then. But this time, I thought that Surrey, look like she could barely walk back to the corner. And Katie as well, they actually half come together. It's more like they just, they just bump shoulders and walk off.

They were exhausted. It was that serious and that hard a fight. Katie Taylor is, without doubt, one of the all-time great, male or female. We'll look back, or I won't, I'll be probably dead. But in 50 and 40 and 60 years' time, people will look back and they'll go and try and find people that were at some of those great Katie Taylor nights. And boy, oh boy, she has given a single fighter indeed, both of them, to be honest. And great events.

So that was Dallas, 72,000 people, the AT&T stadium, the carnival, the circus and one of the all-time great female fights, boxing, as we call it. Well, the following night, it was Riyadh. Read season, the Latino special, the one promoted by Oscar Delahoya. Oscar Delahoea was dressed up like a mariachi band singer, leading out his fighter, and world champion Zerdo Ramirez to fight Chris Bill of the Smith. He holds another one of the World Championship belts for a unified cruiserweight world championship fight.

Now this is an interesting fight this because it had divided a lot of people in the buildup to this fight and they'd been divided on very strong lines. There were very few people that were sitting on the fence. It was either, nah, Zerdo's too slick for him or Bill and Smith's too big for him. Richie, before going into the result and the fight, how did you think it would end before the first bell started? I always thought it would be a tough fight for Billim Smith, Steve, to be quite honest. Literally on experience, I know he hasn't had much experience against Southpours,

Ramirez, although not a cruiserweight, had most of his world-top fights at Super Middle, boxed at light-heavy, only been beaten by Bivel. And while I thought it was going to be a tough fight for him, Steve, if you look at Ramirez's record, he had 33 fights before he had his first world title fight. Old school Mexican build up that. Old school Mexican.

Old school Mexican. Absolutely. Big fan. And the thing is Steve, say nine or ten of them a gimmies. Still 24, 25 real fights. Yes. And over in Mexico, it's a tough up bringing out there. So I always thought it was going to be a tough fight for him.

Did I think he could win it? Yes. and I actually thought that Bill and Smith might have been too strong for him because he's a natural cruiserweight. He's been at that 200 pounds

for a long long time. So there's a lot going for him. I like his style. I think he's powerful. I think he's a clever boxer. And I just thought he was in with a real good shout, but I knew it was going to be tough.

When I talked to Bill and Smith a couple of weeks ago at the gym in later and the county amateur boxing club gym, when I talked to Bill and what was, Chris, what was obvious was that he was really unbelievably confident,

but he was also really sort of desperate for people to realize that he was more than just a guy that had a big heart, more than just the guy that would struggle, sorry, would come through a struggle and win he was desperate to tell me about, you know, subtleties in his game and how smart he could be. Well, on the night, ding ding,

first bail out in Riyadh, Zerdo Ramirez just looked too fast, too slick, too smart, and just too clever. Too clever. All the way from the very first bell. What impressed me about Ramirez, Steve, was his movement. After his jab, being a safe ball, he'd move off to his right,

but he would rarely go back onto the ropes. So a bit like an Ussick, as in Ussick never goes back to the ropes, and he keeps his movement circular around his opponent. So he moves a lot, but he doesn't move away. Yes, he moves around. But he doesn't go backwards. Absolutely. Just moves around you, yeah.

You know what I mean? So he moves around the opponent. And literally then, so he's controlling ring space, so he's boxing from. from centre of the ring in control and ring space and I just thought Billim Smith, with his lack of experience, couldn't really cope with that. In his own mind, you could see that he knew he had to get up close to Ramirez to rough him up a little bit, but he didn't know quite know how to do it.

And there was no head movement, and he walked on to too many. Shot after shot after shot. And although if you looked at both boxes, Bill and Smith looked like the chiseled guy, he looked strong at the weight. Ramirez looked a little bit fleshy for me. Certainly he had those ridiculously tight shorts on. And those shorts made his fires look unbelievably fleshy.

He looked a little bit of fleshy. It looked like that was where his weight was. But, you know, we know, don't we, that you can never judge your book by the cover in our game. And Ramirez, probably just a little bit too clever for him and a little bit too much experience. But I think that movement really had a big impact on the fight. You know, so we praise corners when they get things right.

Shane's had plenty of praise on this pod over the last seven, eight years. could the corner and could the corner and Bill and Smith had changed like, you know, tweaked things slightly and maybe cut, maybe caught Zerdo as he was moving away one way from trying to read his movements, you know, could Bill and Smith have done more like, could Bill and Smith have got a bit closer and tried to work harder? I mean, well, Steve, I think... Without being there, it's hard for us to, you know, without being eight feet away.

McGregan is a very thorough coach. He knows his stuff and I think they would have gone in with a game plan, but when you actually put it in, to practice, then it's a different matter altogether. One thing I really noticed about Bill and Smith, which he was doing time and again, totally wrong. He was moving off to his right all the time. And against the safe ball,

then he's moving on to that left hand of Ramirez. And because Ramirez was moving to his right, he was bringing him on to that shot. So it was clever boxing from Ramirez. And Bill and Smith, I think, through the lack of experience, He's only boxed one South Pole in his whole career. And that was something in his fifth fight. You told me that earlier on,

there's a man that's now had whatever, it's 22, 22 fights. I find that stunning. It was, believe it was full world title fight. By the way, I was amazed at that's that. Now, of course, you can compensate for that by bringing in sparring Southport trainer or having guys switch around to Southport.

But I was still surprised at that. Yeah, it was. And it was a classic case of what he could have probably been doing a little bit better definitely more head movement because he was walking on to too many shots. He knew he had to get close, but there's a way of getting close, Steve. You know, there's three things you have to do and you have to consider when you're boxing on the inside. One's your approach, so it's avoiding shots to get there. To get where you need to be. Then when you're there, it's shot selection.

You've got to pick the right shots, no straight shots. It's got to be hooks and uppercut. And then it's retreat. So then you can't stay there for too long because you're in the danger zone. So that third area that you've got to cover and you've got to cover it well is you retreat and I don't think they really worked on that. He stayed there for too long and got caught with too many shots.

Do you think there was maybe too much dependent or too big of dependence on Ramirez simply quotes not being big enough because he was at 168 pounds you mentioned all those super middleweight world title defences whilst Bill of Spiff was a big 200 pounder. So there was a lot of dinner

so we're talking about 32 pounds for five, six years of their careers. They probably gambled on Bill and Smith being a little bit too big, naturally the bigger man and naturally the more powerful man. But you've got to remember, Ramirez, typical Mexican, is tough. Not a natural cruise away, we know, but clever with his movement. And he took some good shots off Bill and Smith that didn't really bother him. So that's that Mexican toughness about him.

He often was moving away, though, when the shot was. So it wasn't like he was caught with his feet flat, static, caught of a good shot, or countered brilliantly as he was so gives him a little bit of extra power. He's moving. It was won by movement. I mean, let's get that way. I think so. It was won by movements, as Barry Jones likes to say, pivot.

If Barry Jones is on this pod here today, we might have thrown him off after, because he's only got a 10 pivot allowance per pod. So he had done his 10 pivots in about 30 seconds. So, yeah, it was that. Now, the scores, it was four rounds on two cards and three on another. You know, as much as Bill of every round, Billum Smith tried in every round. And he tended to make the rounds competitive, even if he lost them.

I thought he lost clearly and widely. I didn't, Steve. I thought it was a bit harder. I had one 16, 112. Okay. But at the end of this day, if it had been 10 rounds to two, I wouldn't have really complained about that. And I know that's my,

I'm not contradicting myself because, you know what I'm saying? I thought I was a bit generous to Bill and Smith, but I thought he had some good periods in the rounds that he might have nicked the odd round here and there. He had a good period in every single round. It's just that Ramirez had more good periods. If you have judges that like Ramirez's work, then they could have gone a lot heavier than what they did.

So that's four world title fights since beating Lawrence Oconezocle in May of, just May of last year. So I make that, what's that? 18 months. Four world title fights in 18 months. He needs to be applauded for that. There are very few boxes at any weight from any country who have four world title fights in 18 months.

And he learned from it, Steve. He learned from it. There's not many Southpores like Ramirez in that division as good as him. So he's fought the best out there. And CBS, as we call him, is a young 34. I mean, it's only 22 fights. So you look at Zerdo Ramirez. He's a year younger, but he's had 48 fights now.

Exactly. So he's had double the fights and a few. So it'll be bitterly disappointed, Chris. Of course he will. And Shane and the rest of the gym take all this personally. You know, Adam Azim, Dubois, they've all been sending their messages. overnight to Chris. He'll come back.

He'll come, is there's enough fights for him at that way at Cruiserweight. He's in that world title mix. As for Zerdo Ramirez, perhaps we'll see him against Jaiopatai. Let's hope that's the fight we see because Zerdo Ramirez against Jaiopatai, that's a good fight.

Of course, that could be part of this much hype. It's getting a bit annoying, really. Oscar Delahoya, Eddie Hearn, 5V5. As Eddie has now proposed, it's the 6v6 of Oscar Delahoya and Eddie Hearn fighting each other, which is, I'm not being funny. I love Eddie Adef

and he's been really brilliant to this pod in the last seven years. Oscar de La Jolla with two days training wearing those high hills from that famous pitcher would beat Eddie Hearn in about a round. And I don't take that personally, that's just a fact.

Because Oscar Delahoeia is still in good nick. Still in good nick. And he's not that old, brother. He's not that old. And we've, you might, people can be fooled by Oscar, laughing and joking. He's at his ups and downs.

go watch one or two of Oscar Delahoya's fights. The man was vicious, he was nasty, he was brilliant. Oh, yeah, you know. And off Oscar Delahoya, Eddie Hearn fight. So that's it. So Chris Bill and Smith lost his world title out in Saudi Arabia. He's been on a great run of fights, the king of all, Bournemouth, and just had absolutely fantastic fellow and gentleman.

He's made plenty of money. And he's not finished by any. He'll be back, mate. He's a bit of boxing year. He's a kid. A couple of bits of housekeeping, Mitch, before I let you go, before we go and have potatoes, and I stock the fire up again.

Finally been announced, December the 14th, Natasha Jonas will defend her IBF, well-to-weight title, and fight Ivana Habazin for Habazin's WBC version. That's at the Exhibition Center in Liverpool, so that's on the 14th of December, the same night that Matchroom have a show over in Monte Carlo.

And then the following night, so this is Sunday the 15th, when I'll be going off to Saudi Arabia for the Usik and Earth Tyson Fury rematch, Dillian White's back. Brilliant. He'll be fighting Ebenezer de Giza Tete. I've added the Giza bit because anyone called Ebenezer,

has to be called the Giza. Simple as that. So Ebeneza de Giza Tete, who Daniel Dubras stopped a few years ago. He was going to be fighting Dillian White. It's a perfectly acceptable fight for Dillian White. To get himself back in the mix, pick up on a career that has been

stop, start, stop, start, stop. stop start. Dillian White can join the heavyweight mix, can't even reach. Oh, without a shadow of a doubt. Absolutely. If he puts in a good performance against Ebenezer the Giza,

then the thing is, Steve, you know, Daniel DeBois somewhere down the line, an all-British world title fight, why not? Absolutely. That would be fantastic. Dillian's a decent fight, Steve. Tough as they come.

And a better boxer, I think, than what people are giving credit for. Yeah, so Dillian White on December the 15th, Natasha Jonas on December the 14th. So it was a weekend when people, people suggested it might be the end of boxing. It's the apocalypse, people kept telling me on radio. He's brain damage, people kept telling me on radio.

In the end, Mike Tyson coasted through, floated through, didn't get hurt, didn't get cut, lost obviously to Jake Paul. Jake Paul was marched on. Don't hate on Jake Paul. He's just maximising what he's got, which is a talent for self-publicity. The kid fights. I think if he was ever hurt, he'd have plenty of heart. We also saw on that bill in Texas, we saw an attack, we saw an, we saw an, we saw an,

incredible fight. Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano, their rematch, forget about weights or whatever weight it was made out. What a fight that was. The 10th round is incredible. The last 20 seconds is unforgettable. The following night, 24 hours later, well, a little bit less, in Riyadh, Chris Bill and Smith lost his world title to the Mexican Zerdo Ramirez. And Ramirez just knew too much. He was too slick. See, that's a proper pod. Done in the most fabulous surroundings we've ever produced a pod. We've done these things in puddles on trains, on buses, in the backs of taxes, in coal sheds, literally. This is great. We've got a roast dinner waiting for us on the table out there.

Get some more wood on the fire, Steve. A bit more wood on the fire. Richie Woodall. It's been an absolute pleasure and a delight having you with me. I've been Steve Bunce. This has most definitely been five live boxing.