5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Greatest Fights: Benn v Eubank with Richie Woodhall

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

The night that "changed British boxing", according to Steve Bunce: Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank's torrid 9 rounds at the NEC in Birmingham in 1990. Former world super middleweight champion Richie Woodhall joins the podcast to remember the night, which heralded a boom period for boxing on terrestrial TV in the UK.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Costello and Bunce's greatest fights. Great to have you with us again on Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce for the latest in our greatest fight series. And for the second time in the series, we're staying in the UK, Steve, going back to November 1990, the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham, and a fight that you described in your book as one that changed British boxing. I think it did.

Chris Eubank against Nigel Ben, I think it did. I think it shifted the way we look at fights. It shifted why we went to fights. It was almost like 1990, but we finally stepped into a new colour age, an age of real hype, an age where not even the two best middleweights in the southern area of the country, not just in Britain, were fighting, and the nation stopped. You couldn't buy a ticket. The ringside seats were a ridiculous 200 pound.

The promoters were told, you'll never sell those tickets. The promoters were told by some of the old cynics, and I was a young kid, a whippersnapper in the middle of those cynics back then. The old cynics said, it's not even for the British title. He's not even the best fighter in London. He's not even this. It didn't matter.

Everyone brought in to what happened on that Sunday night. It captured the. imagination. And I tell what, Mike, it did change. I wasn't giving it, giving it plenty and overhyping it. It did change British boxing. Promoted by Barry Hearn, the posters said, Who's Fooling Who? The first all-British world middleweight title fight. It was for the WBO title, the World Boxing Organization at that stage was barely two years old. And the beginning of an era, Steve, that is still revered. And you have to say, until recently, was used to a kind of a millstone that people kept saying, oh, boxing's not as good as it was in the Ben

and Eubank days. You know, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury of giving us new impetus. But for decades, that was used as an issue for boxing, that boxing will never be as good again. Well, listen, people always bemoan some previous lost time and harp back to some glorious occasion. But if we look, that's the start of a decade, the 90s. I happen to think the 90s are an incredible decade. You're sure we have bigger fights now and guys make more money and guys in theory are bigger now. But that was a great decade and it starts that decade. But even that particular fight, Mike, that wasn't the only fight that year. Wait for it, Mike. It wasn't the only fight that week for a British boxer in a world middleweight title fight. But you don't know

about the other two. You know about Ben and Eubank. You don't care about Michael Watson losing to Mike McCullum. You don't care about Earl Graham being knocked. out six days later in Spain by Julian Jackson. What you remember is the buildup. Even if you were too young to have been around, you've watched it since. It launches everything that we now accept as normal. Big buzzword, the normal, the new normal. That changed the face of British boxing. And it just gave us two guys who, and I know, there'd be plenty of cliches in the next 50 or so minutes, but they went beyond anything they had to do. They had absolutely nothing left,

both the winner and the loser, after that fight. And we're going to have the former world super middleweight champion Richie Woodall to guide us through the contest very shortly to mark your card. We'll be covering rounds 1, 2 and 3, as well as 7, 8 and 9.

For those of you who want to watch along as well as listen, 1, 2, 3, 7, 8 and 9 and will give you clear indications as to when each round is starting, and we'll hear from Richie very shortly. But just to blesh out, Steve, what you were saying about what was going on in the middleweight division globally at the time,

as you said, for the WBC, a week later, or in the same week, actually, a few days later, Julian Jackson, Coyed Herald Graham in Spain. As far as the WBA title is concerned, it was held by Mike McCallum, who'd beaten Michael Watson earlier in the year, and Michael Nunn, who was at ringside, had beaten Don Curry the previous month, and he was the IBF title holder.

But as you said, Steve, there was, for those who wanted to knock the fight, and we were ringside, and it was just the most amazing atmosphere. It was the most febrile build-up. But there were those who were ready to dig about the southern area, about not the best in London, about it. So give us that shape of what was going on around the fight in terms of the criticism of these men. Well, Mike, you and I at this point are already 15-year veterans, either as

10 and 11 year old boys or as young journalists working trying to make our way in the media. We were young upstarts at that point. But we'd been ringside enough. We'd been at some big fight, so-called big fights, and we've been at some really big amateur events that mattered. But we'd never experienced anything like what happened that night inside the NEC, as it was known then. Nigel Ben had entered the ring. It was his first fight back. here after an 18 month or whatever it was, trip to America where he'd upset everything. He turned over that shock defeat to Michael Watson

when he got stopped, basically fell over from a jab because he hadn't really prepared his mind or his body for the fight. Michael Watson had stopped him. Ben went off to America. He managed to win the title. Then he managed to defend it in 180 crazy seconds

against Iran, Barclay, in Las Vegas. It was stunning. It was sensational. Ubank wasn't people say people always said to me Ubank divided opinion no everybody hated Ubank nobody thought he could fight I don't I don't care the after timers say oh no I really thought you fancy no you didn't you fibber

everybody thought the matter what commentary stream you listen to if you go back and look at the actual reports that were filed in papers that we wrote about at the time nobody liked Ubank even though they thought he might still be Ben, don't get me wrong, because people weren't sure about Ben's heart and desire following the nature the way that Michael Watson fight ended when he was knocked out,

I say, by a jab. But people didn't fancy Eubank. They weren't sure about his chin. They weren't sure about his heart. They weren't sure about his desire. But boxing people, inside boxing, they liked him. So guys that had ever shared the gym with him or spoke to people that had shared the gym with him, talked about his commitment, talked about his power, talked to

about his strength. So that was the only divide. The rest of the boxing public didn't like him. In fact, the rest of the boxing public, if you don't mind me saying so, spent about the next 12 or 15 years trying to see him get knocked out. And there was still people at the end. That's the truth. Well, let's call on the voice of reason then, the man who's been alongside us at ringside on many great occasions in the past and how I wish we could have commentated alongside him for this one, Steve. world super middleweight champion, Richie Woodall. Richie, great to have you with us. Yeah, brilliant. Thanks, lads. It's a pleasure.

And this fight for you, Richie, in terms of memories, what does it do? When people say to you, Ben Eubank won, what comes to mind? I was actually the ring side. I was at the fight that night as a spectator because I'd had a good year. I'd started, I was still amateur at the start of the year, but I went to the Commonwealth Games, won a gold in Auckland, and then I decided to turn pro. and then I made my debut as a pro probably around September, October time.

So, you know, I was quite big news in the Midlands then. I'd meddled at Olympics, meddled at the Commonwealth Games, just turned pro. So I was invited to go. I can't remember who invited me now, but anyway, I was ringside for the fight. And Steve Bunce is quite right. I think people who know their box, inside boxing rather,

respected Eubank. But there were still a few questions. question marks unanswered about Eubank, about his heart, how tough he actually was. And I remember that the general feeling for me was before the fight, you know, it was all looking forward to it, but I actually thought that Nigel would get to him and would stop Eubank. We didn't really know how strong Eubank was. It's only in the later fights that people acknowledge how tough he really was Eubank. So there were still probably question marks.

And I thought Nigel Ben had learned quite a lot from the Michael Watson defeat and I honestly thought that he was going to beat Eubanks but it was really, really exciting at the NEC. It was a tremendous scrap, a real out-and-out scrap. I was saying to Steve Rishy, I felt a real sizzle at ringside. So for you as a pro who just started out on his career, how was that experience for you as to, you know, imagining what it could become for you one day? Well, that's it. I mean, any young amateur that turns pro, you know, they look, it's because of knights like that that they probably turn pro and want to be world champions.

And I was certainly looking up to the Nigel Benz and the U-Banks of this world. I admired them because they were terrific and very, very exciting fighters. And like I say, amateurs who want to become professionals and become world champions, it's because of knights like that, really. and the viewing figures were probably back then I don't know what the viewing figures were but because there was very little in terms of the channels that were available on television I should imagine the viewing figures

would have been astronomical really I don't know, do you know what they were Bunsey for that night the actual viewing figures? I'm never sure if it's 14 or 17 million but it's in those type of figures let's put it that way. Yeah, so it was incredible but yeah

Mike, turning, pro. I was looking up to these guys, so I admired them. I was in all of them because of occasions like that. And Steve, we were sat ringside and, you know, all sorts of shenanigans going on in the dressing rooms before they actually made their ring walks. And all of that now, whether it's fact or fable, all adds to the great memories of that night in November 1990. The whole of that week, Mike, I remember you and I, I think, camped up by about the Friday. We were a group about five or six of us sharing two bunk beds and a pillow in a carsey, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, it really was the old days.

But I was up and down a couple of days that week. You're running, covering the conferences and sort of various things. I'm not sure if there was an open workout, but you could get access to the two of them at gym on about the Tuesday. And all week long, there was just this incredible battle. Ambrose Mendi, who looked after in an under, licensed way. He didn't have a British Boxing Water Control licence, but he managed and looked after Nigel Ben. He said he was going to get in the ring. The board said they'd find him and Ambrose said, well, how can you find me? I'm not registered with you. You can't just randomly find people on the

street and that's what I am. So he'd threaten to get in the ring. There was all sorts of talk about what Eubank was planning on doing and not planning on doing. And Barry Hearn started to get some cold feet at one point because he was paying the two of them a decent amount of money. No one near as much money as they claimed they were getting. They went a bit silent on the actual figures. And there was also, Mike, early in the week, there was a feeling that what if it does flop? I can remember that clearly. Going back to London from Birmingham on a train on about the Tuesday or Wednesday and thinking, and I remember this, and I'm not being an after time, I remember thinking, is this just massive to me in my world? It's just keeping me awake at night,

or is this really genuinely catching on? And then you see the back pages of every single paper. What a great expression. It's an old expression. We should get it back. The back pages of the sports were full of this all week long. It was being driven, and it became a monster. It became an absolute beast. And more importantly, Mike, they didn't let anybody down. So not only did it drive people to the sport. And this is why I talk about it changing the sport, Mike.

There were better fighters than Ben and Eubank. There were better fights in some ways, probably than Ben and Eubank, although I'd have an argument over with anybody over that. but this had it all and it delivered. And every single one of those 14 or 15 or 16 or 17 million people was going to come back. They were going to be a repeat offender at the shrine of Ben and Eubank going forward. Make no mistake. Well, for those of you who are watching as well as listening,

we're heading over to the NEC in Birmingham very shortly to pick up on the first round. And as I said earlier, we'll be doing the opening three rounds and then going on to rounds, 7, 8 and 9, but we'll give you plenty of warning as to when we get there. So we're heading over to the NEC, just some details as to who they were at the time. Ubank was 24 years of age, unbeaten in 24 fights. He'd already fought five times in that year in 1990, whereas Nigel Ben at 26 had lost once in 28 fights. As Steve mentioned earlier on, that was a surprise defeat to Michael Watson around 18 months earlier, but he had rebounded again, as Steve said. with those two great wins in the United States against Doug DeWitt and against Iran, Berkeley.

And it was one of those occasions, Richie, as we're waiting for the first bell and we're watching now the introductions being gone through by the MC Alan Hughes, who worked on all the matchroom shows at the time. There was this feeling at ringside. I know you were saying there that you actually fancied Nigel Ben, but there were just question marks as to how well he'd prepared for this. I do remember in the last couple of days leading in, there were questions about his weight and how difficult he was finding it to make middleweight at that stage.

Yeah, absolutely. That was, I remember that actually, the talk around the ring side that Nigel had struggled to make the weight. Two big guys at middleweight. But like I say, I always thought the question marks were probably around Eubank, just as much as Ben. Ben had had the two good wins, obviously, in America after the Michael Watson defeat. And for me, the question marks were still around Chris Eubank. Yes, he was undefeated, but could he take the power of Nigel Ben? And, you know, there were a lot of people that thought Nigel Ben was going to do it,

and I was one of them. Well, the two fighters have retired to their respective corners. The first bell about to sound the last of the officials and the camp members are leaving the ring and the... ring side area, the referee Richard Steele, the famous American who was the third man for so many monumental occasions across the history of boxing, and yet he described this as the most brutal fight that he'd ever been involved in. The MC Alan Hughes is just about to leave the ring. Chris Eubank is standing absolutely stocked still in his corner. It's the blue corner closest to us on

the version that we're watching at the moment. And Nigel Ben on the opposite side of the in the red corner is prowling, just bending down, almost touching his toes, the last of his limbering up, and now they stare, the thousand yards stare, and the bell sounds for the start of the first round, and Eubank darts in with an overhand right, tries it again, a second overhand right,

and both times, Richie, Nigel Ben is wise to it and slips underneath. Yeah, I mean, the way Nigel comes out, obviously he means business, and he sort of walks straight over to the centre of the ring, but Chris Euban sort of sort of meets him, if you like, but he sort of side on and then he whips this right hand in

trying to catch Nigel unaware but Nigel was he was certainly expecting it if you like and yeah Ubank I mean the big shots are going in already from Ben Ben's on that front foot and Eubank's now on the back foot but yeah Eubank does try a couple of real big shots early on but he misses the target both times

I do remember Steve that Ben at this stage had 13 wins in the first round and there was just some feeling at ringside that he might do it again here What an opening 90 seconds, you know. It's only when you watch it back that you're reminded, then you look at your notes from the night. Some of those right hands, as Richie started talking now,

he suddenly's voice went up because of the right hand. They crunch in right hands. These are not feeling right hands. This first round, looking at it, might be one of the best first rounds I've ever been ringside at because you can sense everything. They are putting every single, every single thing, every single fibre of their body is going into every single one

of these punches. It's a savage opening round. A terrific cluster of shots in the centre of the ring, Richie. And a lot of people were saying that, you know, Chris Eubank had this unorthodox style. But he's landing here, solid left-rights. He's just thrown another one there as we reached just about the halfway stage of the round and then flicking out the jab. But the left-right copy-book combination works so well for him already, Richie. He boxes quite a clever first round as Eubank on that back foot.

He just looking for the openings and then sort of stepping in very quickly. in trying to catch Nigel with either a 1-2 or a single right-hand. Nigel probably needs a little bit more head movements, if anything, but nevertheless, Nigel still fancies it. He's going forward. He's looking to land his big right-hand. But U-Bank, you've got to say, he's the one that's being successful with the 1-2

and the straight right-hand combination. I think the U-Bank jabs there is another untold weapon here, because sometimes he throws it and he leaves it there, like a sort of ramrod, almost like an Eastern European. He throws it out and leaves it out. I mean, the power, you can sense, you can feel it. And I remember, you know, we were ringside.

We were all three of us from ringside as well. You can feel it and sense it from ringside as well. And you know what I mean by that. Some fights you can sense, you get an idea of what's happening. They come together in an exchange in centre ring and Ben just lifts Eubank over his shoulder at that stage, separated by the referee. There was a cluster of shots just a few moments ago.

and there I heard the reaction of Steve as another left-right combination from Eubank crunches onto the chin of Nigel Ben and the long-range stuff is worth for Eubank but also there was a moment about 30 seconds ago as the referee steps in and separates them as the bell sounds at the end of the first round and now we go on immediately to the second round

but in that opening round there was just a combination of short shots a right hand to the chin then a right hand to the body from Chris Eubank he really was measuring Nigel Benn And I think already, I know thinking back at the time, and as you said, Steve, looking back at notes, I was surprised at how clever UBank was in that first round. Not only clever, but I think Ritchie touched on it, is also quite orthodox. Most of what he's doing, most of what he's done, and you mentioned it as well, most of what he does throughout this fight is in some ways the most orthodox good UBank we ever get to see.

I mean, we've frozen the frame here at the start. you know, this is for us, you won't be seeing this at home, because we're about to start the second round from the start. If you freeze the first two seconds of the second round, have a look at Eubank's balance and poise. That's not the Eubank people talk about. That's not the Eubank people want to remember. In this fight, he had to be the Eubank that Ronnie Davis,

his long-suffering coach had instilled in him, a man with his right hand high, pulling a wall, away shots. He's left hand in a good position, but his feet correct. Because had he got any of those things wrong, Ben would have walked for him as it is. He needs to be, he needs to have his feet in the right position and a right hand that can occasionally block a shot. Otherwise, he would have been knocked out several times, including once or twice in the first round. I think so, Mike, as well. You got the impression that you, that Eubank, he seemed to expect what was coming at him, better, more so than what Nigel did of Eubank.

He expected that style coming forward and he coped with it quite well, to be quite honest with you, with the shots that he landed. But I just got the impression that he expected the style coming at him and they'd done their homework, definitely. So having frozen the action at the beginning of the second round, we now roll on again and see Eubank backing off and allowing Nigel Ben to press forward.

Ben tried the overhand right two and three times in the opening round and he's tried it again at the beginning of this round. And an infringement there from Chris Eubank warned about hitting around the back of the head by the referee, but still getting behind that left jab. And when they come together in the centre of the ring, it's Eubank who breaks away, tries a right upper cut, then a looping right hand over the top. Nigel Ben, though, makes him miss. And when they exchange jabs, it's noticeable that Eubank comes off best.

Although finally, there in the first 30 seconds of this round, Ben does get through with that overhand right. And Mike, here you see, Nigel, he knows he's got to up the tempo. little bit here and he had a couple of good right hands at the start of this round and look as soon as he's landed that right hand that right that's like the red rag to the board because then he just keeps going forward he knows he's got to close the gap but you bank again on that back foot he's doing what we call counter-attacking his u-bank he's waiting waiting waiting and sometimes he just jumps in and beats nigel to the punch so nigel's coming forward look at that for a right hand again from Nigel just missed the target by inches.

There's a counter-attack again from Eubank. He waits for Nigel to attack, then beat him to it with a single shot. But definitely the start of this round, Nigel Ben lands with a couple of good right hands, and that gives him encouragement to keep going forward. Cracking. And Ben's making Eubank work solidly, non-stop. He's pushing Eubank all of the time, and he's cutting off his movements, and once he's in close, he's trying to bring up upper cuts.

U-Bank is having to work for every second of. every round. It's not being given a second's break. And that's what makes it such an engrossing and enthralling fight from the bell. There's no brevers. Even when it looks like Eubanks having a brewer, he's having to then set himself as Ben goes for him again. And I think it is impressive for me, the variety in the work of Chris Eubank, although we are going to see coming up a terrific right hand from Nigel Ben there as Eubank is forced back onto to the ropes and then Ben follows up with another clubbing couple of right hands. And Eubank tested really seriously, not just for the first time in the fight, but you could

argue for the first time in his career, certainly at this level. Still recovering from that shot, Mike. Still recovering, but look how he recovers. He won't let Ben know that he's hurt and he comes back here and he's about to hurt Nigel Ben, Richie. Yeah, well, Mike, everyone always talks about Nigel Ben's power and he has phenomenal power did Nigel Ben. But Eubank himself, he's a powerful thing.

Look at these right hands that he's putting in to Nigel Ben. Now he's got Nigel Ben on the ropes, hitting him with right hands to the body, left ducks, everything's going in. So you have to respect Eubank's power also. He's a powerful guy when they talk about power between these two. They mainly talk about Nigel Ben's power. But let's not disrespect Eubank. He's a powerful fellow also.

And that last minute, Steve, as the bell sounds to end that round, you had Ben landing on Eubank, Eubank responding immediately. you had Eubank landing on Ben, Ben responding immediately. So just astonishing. And this is why we were so excited about this fight. And all those fears you said, Steve, about it stinking, had been elayed already after just six minutes. I mean, I said the first round was great,

and I've forgotten how great the second round was. And that last minute, we had the two fighters here, caught and hit, the hardest they'd ever been caught and hit in their lives. That right hand that catches Eubank is about the throw a punch. Would have dropped any one of the men, Ben, ever hit on the chin. And as for the right hand that sends your bend back on wobbly legs,

that also would have dropped anybody that you bang on ever here. They've already gone beyond where they've been in previous fight. And it's about this point that really what you need to come in here, Mike, is some rocky music. Because we're going now into boxing fantasy land.

I'm convinced of that, and I was convinced at the time. And we're into the third round, and the third round has opened up pretty much as the second round finished with the two men trading shots. at this stage in the centre of the ring and there's just a lull it slows down

slightly after about the first 30 seconds Eubank tries a looping straight right which was a successful punch for him throughout the contest Ben is rolling from the waist he's been told by Vic Andretti in his corner to roll from the waist and then lands a solid right hand over the top but immediately

Eubank comes back with a right uppercut and then they left hook so the two of them are exchanging again in the centre of the ring when you think one 's on top which he's suddenly the other one replies Yeah, it's unbelievable that right hand there from Ben. But then he followed his look with the left-up, doesn't he? So it's a right-hand left-up combination. They're throwing, as Steve has said,

they're putting everything into every shot. There was a little bit of a lot at the start of this round. And they actually, Eubanks's actually talking to Nigel Ben now. I think you get the impression again that Eubank, he wants the space more than Nigel. Nigel's on the front foot, forcing the fight, but they're both putting everything into every shot.

There's no, I mean, look at that for a jab from Nigel. Nigel then. That wasn't just a light jab. That was a tremendous, tremendously powerful shot from Ben, a straight left jab. Incredible stuff. I tell you one interesting thing. Ritchie made a brilliant point. He, Ritchie made a point, and I think he's absolutely right. He said he believes that U-Bank was prepared for what happened here, but Ben wasn't. And Rich, the more I watch this fight, the more I'm convinced of that. And it's almost like the Ben, who completely dismissed and hated, openly hated Eubank, would not. give it in in his mind any chance that Eubank could actually fight on this.

Also, Mike, this is the first round that people start to notice the slight swelling underneath Ben's eye. So it's the third round when it first is noted. In my book, I've got it written down as the fourth, but it's the third. And just as you spoke there, Steve, there was a lovely clipping right upper cut from Chris Eubank. Three times in this round he's landed that so far. That clearly for him is a tactic as Nigel Ben comes in leaning forward, almost five from a crouch. But the two of them are landing solid jabs. The right hand over to top from Eubank lands again.

And yet Ben comes straight back at him and will have a terrific finish to the round. They're really hurting each other here with single straight jabs. And I remember thinking at ringside, I wonder if, because of the rumours about Ben and his problems making the weight, was he trying to get rid of Eubank early on?

Was he putting everything into these early rounds? He is so determined to knock a cushioner Ubank out. He's actually neglecting a little. bit of his skills in terms of his head movement. He's just going for it. Look at these shots now from Nigel Ben, but he's actually walking onto a lot of shots. I thought in that round, Nigel took some big punches because he was so determined to try and knock Eubank out that he neglected his defense and just walked onto those good shots from Chris Eubank. And like Steve says, that's when the swelling just starts. He's a victim of his own success in many ways, Nigel Ben. He's landing big punches,

wants to go for the finish, but then he's walking onto them as well. tremendous action with Ben on top at the end of that round and you watch it back time and again, Richie, and you kind of forget just how good it was. Absolutely, you took the words right out of my mouth. You forget how good and how exciting this fight was. And I was ringside and it was tremendous. But I can't remember watching it since,

but you just forget how exciting this fight was. It was absolutely tremendous. Mike, it's not just that it's good. It's quality as well. It's not just two guys slowly fighting themselves. into quicksand and still throwing punches. No, it's quality. It's brilliant.

They're both trying different things. It's the accuracy of the punches. Mike, and you and I have done a lot of these now, these greatest fights. It's a long way we do 15 series for the next 10 years. But have we ever done one where the three of us have oohed and ared. I know it's unprofessional. I don't care.

The ooing and aering on this is unbelievable. I know young Jack, the producer, will try and get rid of it. Don't. Because it just shows. that us three veterans combined age, nearly 300 years of age, us three veterans, if we're being sucked in like this, what are people like who are listening to the pod and following the rounds? This is an experience.

This is an all, a completely massive, an all-intensive experience. It's quite draining. I'm loving every second of it. It's the constant and repeated fluctuations, one man on top, other one replying immediately. We've taken a breather at the end of the third round. As I said earlier, we're going to be moving on to the seventh round and we'll tell you exactly when we're starting that

seventh round. But just to fill in some of the gaps in the fourth round, the swelling by Ben's left eye, which Steve referred to earlier, was really becoming a problem for him. And Eubank sustained a gruesome injury to his tongue after taking a really strong right upper cut in the fourth round as well. Mary McGuigan, who was commentating for one of the teams at ringside, talked about both of them taking a rest round in the fifth. In the sixth round, Ben landed a low left hook and Eubank was hurt to the body. But most at ringside, as we're getting to the stage now at the start of round seven, we're not quite there yet. But most at ringside, Ritty and Steve, at this stage, had it three rounds apiece as we go into round seven. A rare example of a fight that you so looked forward to, actually living up to.

the billing. Yeah, I've just, I've just checked my notes. I've got it 3-3. At the time, at the time, in my notes from the fight, I had it 4-2 to U-Bank, but I've just checked my notes from scoring it, again, having watched it recently or last night, and I've got it 3-3 going into the seventh round. How many times you do that, you kind of change your scoring, but at this stage, Richie, are you getting any indication as to which way the fight is going? If it's level on the scorecards, as we think it is, then are you getting a clue at this stage, having seen the interim rounds that we've missed out? What I can remember from the fight itself around this time, Mike and Steve, what I can

remember is that it was such a hard fight for both of them, although obviously Steve Don't talked about, you know, it's not two guys just standing toe-to-to-to-it's skillful, this, that and you're there. But even at this stage, I think we were getting to a stage of the contest where Will was really coming into it because both of them were tiring at this stage they'd taken big shots, they were both hurt and at this stage of the fight I actually thought that Will was overcoming skill

in a lot of sense for both men it was coming down to who wants it and we're only going into the seventh fight who they'd put so much into it that it was already getting to that stage and there'll be a lot of fighters out there who will know what I'm talking about you guys know what I'm talking about also, that sometimes

it doesn't matter how fit you are, you can get to a stage in a contest where it comes down to what's inside you, what's your DNA, you know, what bottle you've got. And at this stage, even though in the seventh round, it was getting down to that stage in this contest for me. So the bell sounds then for the start of the seventh round, still all to play for, which way will it go? According to the judges at ringside, it's level.

And Ben launches in with a left hook towards the body at the beginning at this round, but immediately it's Eubank who opens up, but another left took to the body, and Eubank almost crouches and just flinches as he steps away, but immediately responds with a couple of right uppercuts, and the two men are at close

exchange in the centre of the ring, but then Eubank backs off and throws a lovely left jab. The jab was such an important punch for him throughout the contest, Richie. Yes, it was. He boxed a very clever contested Eubank on that back foot with the jab, counter it,

attacking, stepping in, beating Nigel to the punch. But also, Mike, Steve hinted on it about his talked about his right-up-cutt also. He's right-upacut on the inside, I thought it was a cracking shot. And you know what, it's probably a punch that Nigel wasn't expecting. There it is, again, right on cue, right-upacut on the inside that probably Nigel wasn't expecting that type of punch. We knew that Eubank could fight well on the outside, but on the inside also, he'd get some sneaky shots with the right of the good through that I thought hurt Nigel Ben a couple of times. I think what's noticeable here, Steve, and Richie is that, as Richie said, that Eubank is noticeably slower on his feet at this stage.

It's definitely slowed down, but I think Nigel Ben's punches have lost a little bit of their speed. And Eubank is to me here, he's the man that's shown a little bit more experience in the bizarre kind of way, even though we know that Ben has more experience. We're just seeing Ben turn away. Steve, he takes his gum shield out, spits a load of blood on the canvas, and then puts the gum shield back in, and the referee allows him the time to do that. It's just two great fighting men, let them get on with it. Let him have that little respite to have a little bit of a spit.

What I was saying, Mike, before, I've forgotten that moment when Ben spins away there and suddenly plays with his gum shield and Eubank freezes and watches him. People thought at the time that maybe Ben was patting his eye, he was, as you say, spitting out, spitting out blood. What I was about, What I was saying, Mike, was that Eubank is clinching and clinching successfully, gaining himself some time. He's claiming one or both of Ben's arms and holding him. And Ben clearly doesn't have the strength to get clear. And that was maybe a clue of what was to come,

was that it was obvious at this point that Eubank is stronger. Yeah, and also, Steve, if you're looking at this now, I mean, Eubank's coming forward, got Ben on the ropes, he's hitting some big shots. There's clearly the swelling from Nigel's left eye, under a negative his left eye. But what I thought here is the pace is, obviously from what we've seen, the pace has slowed down slightly,

but that slower pace actually suits Eubanks type of boxing, because he can see the attack's coming, and he can counterattack a lot better and a lot quicker. So the slower pace for me just suits Eubank. He just gives him a split second longer to catch Nigel as he's coming forward. But Nigel again responding like a true warrior, coming forward, big punches. Won't take a backward step, but he's actually, again, walking on to the same.

the shots. I love the referee, Richard Steele here, who separates them at the end of the round. In the last few seconds there, Ben threw a shot. They did look to be low and U-Bank complained and turned away and the referee just said, carry on, carry on, get on with it. It wasn't low enough for Richard Steele, for Richard Steele to start. For an American who, listen, he's been imported from Las Vegas because he's an American and he's a high-profile American. He's not going to stop it for a slight low blow for God's sake. It's going to be really low, like the punch a couple of rounds earlier that really hurt Chris Eubank, that was really low.

That was only a little bit low. I mean, that was another hugely competitive round. But for me, that was a round to Eubanker. We all agreed as we go into round number eight and the bell was sound shortly that Eubank is leading four rounds to three. Just ahead, isn't he? Yeah. Four rounds to three now, but at the time I had it five two to Eubank.

So we're going to watch as the bell sounds then for the start of, round number eight and Vic Andretti in the corner of Nigel Ben was imploring his man to move more to make Eubank miss. Move more, make him miss but also, you know, at the start of the round again, there's a sense of urgency from Nigel Ben. I think he knows that the Uback's boxing well on the outside. He's got to get to him. He's trying to move his head a lot more here. There's that right hand again from Nigel looking for that big shot. But he actually, look, he's actually then, he's Goding, Eubank, to come forward

because he wants to try and bring him onto that big right hand. Ubank standing his ground in the centre of the ring, Steve. It's all very well, Andretti, saying move. He spent seven rounds trying to walk through Eubank. You can't suddenly change your game plan in round eight. It's been a hard, brusome fight. It's a bit late to start saying move, if you don't mind me saying so.

And Nigel Ben gets through with a terrific lift-took, and as Eubank now gets on his bike moving around, there's a significant moment here. As a right-hand lands from Ben, high on the head of Eubank and Eubank goes down in the corner and you can see Eubank imploring and pleading with the referee not to count. It's a slip, it's a slip, he says. And he clearly lost his footing on some surface water

when you watch replays at the end of the round. But he's gone down and the referee Richard Still has included it and called it a knockdown. So this is a good round at this stage for Nigel Ben. But immediately, Steve, Eubank comes back. Ubank comes back and that was part of Ubank's entire life after this fight you hurt him he's going to come back with you you dare drop him he's going to come back of you and sure he slips in that water but he gets caught round the back of the year which

makes him slip so it's a legitimate knockdown it's not a concussive knockdown it's not a knockdown it's not a knockdown that will end the fire and I mean we're seeing glimpses here if anybody was unsure before the first bell as we go here as we come towards the end of the eighth round anybody witnessing this the millions watching or the 12 or so foul in attendance will know that all questions about Eubank's heart and desire and chin have been fully answered and should never

ever be asked again. And I've got a note from way back then Steve and we're going back 30 years that says Eubank tiring question mark at this stage of the fight. So we're into the eighth round. He's survived a knockdown, complained about the knockdown, but then

takes another big right hand as we're moving into the later stages and patched the back of his head, Eubank. motioning to the referee to say it was illegal, then a left hook from Nigel Ben lands. These are solid, hard shots from Nigel Ben. And at this stage, you'd have to believe that Ben's getting on top. But Mike, is anything...

Yeah, I think so... Well, no only that, Steve. I think that Eubank here, he's holding his feet a little bit too much in this round, and that just allows Nigel then just to set with that right hand and he's caught him with a couple of cracking shots and also followed through the left hook. But now we're seeing Eubank come back.

Tremendous. Here's the thing here, okay, Ubank has slowed down, he is doing less, and Nigel's catching him. But wait for it, we're talking about the eye injury like he's got an eye injury. He can't see out of his left eye. He has been blind, blind in that eye for several rounds. In that eighth round there, he cannot see anything coming from his left eye. And that's the eye closest to his opponent, Ubank. Let's never ever forget that.

He can't see a single thing out of one of his two eyes. He is fighting with a ridiculous handicap at this point. So on our cards, you see, if we score that knockdown from that round and we have to, then that becomes a 10-8 round for Nigel Ben because it was otherwise a competitive round. So that two-point advantage now takes him in front, which was the position on two of the judges' scorecards. And a reminder, all three judges in this fight were American. And at this stage now, two of them have got Nigel.

Ben one round up, the other has got Eubank, one round up. We're moving into the ninth round and it starts with a right hand over the top from Eubank. If he was hurt in that previous round, he's making sure that Nigel Ben knows that he's recovered. We're into the ninth round. And we've seen here, Richie, where, you know, in the space of a single round, we've seen the action favouring one man, then the other and going back again. You know, microcosms of the entire fight in each of the rounds. Yeah, a seesaw fight, wasn't it? Definitely.

But here, I actually thought that Eubank probably realized that he had a bad previous round. He starts the round quite well. He lands with a couple of good right hands and sort of goes on that front foot. Now he's holding his feet a lot more, but he's literally, again, waiting for Nigel to do something, and then he's going to beat him to it. Look at him here, just waiting, waiting. There he steps in with that right hand. He's actually just standing now, just keeping Nigel on the ropes.

and then again, Nigel doesn't do nothing, so Chris Eubank takes the initiative and lands a couple of big shots. Interesting, he's keeping everything at long range, Steve, here, Chris Eubank, as if he's going back to that kind of boxing brain and just to work his way back into the fight after a torrid eighth round.

Well, he knows that there's no way Ben can catch him at long distance. Ben can catch him if he gets in close and he's trying to throw a short left hook or a short uppercut. Ben can pull something. He's done it before. Ben's pulled punches from the floor and knock people out. But Eubank knows he hits him with a long jab, and a long right hand

and he cannot be countered. Great defensive work there from also from the... Can I just say something? If we stopped it right now, whatever it is, 90 seconds into this round, if we stopped it right now, could you honestly say

you know what's going to come in the next 90 seconds? Because I couldn't, Mike. I could not, honestly. No, but I think it's been very impressive from Eubank in this round, getting back to long range. And you said at one stage, Steve,

straight left and straight right. And there's a shot low from Eubank landing on the left, buttock of Chris Eubank there and he just walks away as if to say where did that come from. But the straight left and the straight right, sometimes thrown as single shots, but most of the fight thrown together has been really successful for Chris Eubank and it will set up the finish very shortly. It's a really important couple of shots for Chris Eubank and has been throughout the fight. But as you say, Steve, it's still Nigel Ben forcing him back or attempting to force

him back and they come into an untidy kind of wrestling match in the center of the ring. referee Richard Steele waves his arms saying it wasn't a knockdown as Ubank goes to the canvas. Eubank makes Ben miss with an overhand right and then lands that left right himself and Ben totters into the ropes Ritchie and this is the beginning of the end. Yeah, unbelievable because Nigel just before then we're still trying to land big right hands. He's still trying to knock Chris Eubank out with every shot but gets caught with a tremendous one-two and that seemed to sap the strength from Nigel Ben. Big right hand here.

This is where it comes onto the ropes and Richard Steele jumps in. Unbelievable. Unbelievable, Steve. But Richard Steele had taken a look just before Ben goes back to the ropes there, Mike. We're only three or four punches are thrown. Only really two of them land correctly, right?

If you watch that, but Richard Steele takes a really hard look, a really hard look as Ben almost teeters back to those ropes. And even though, I mean, I've got to be honest with you, my first reaction at the time, my reaction now, is that that was a very, not an early stoppage, but it was a quick stoppage. But then when you watch it again, still is 18 inches away, and he's looking into Ben's eyes.

And he knows that man has got nothing left at that particular moment. And I think always what's telling in instances like this, Richie, is there's very little in the way of protest from Nigel Ben. No, you're right there, Mike. And I was in a position there. I think I could actually see when the Richard still jumped in. I could see Nigel's face. And I remember him shouting out, literally in frustration.

I think he shouts, no, or something like that, because he knew he was being stopped and he just did not want to be stopped. It's just a true warrior. Yes, I don't think it was a sort of an early stoppage. I think the referee made the right decision. But for what we'd seen early, I can understand. what Steve is saying, it seemed a quick stop. It's quick. It's quick to what we'd actually seen

in the previous rounds leading up to it. But I think it was the right decision by the referee. But I remember sitting ringside and I could see Nigel's face and I remember him shouting out something. You know, he just did not want to be stopped. And yeah, what a warrior, both of them. Four seconds to go in that ninth round. That was the official time with Richard Steele,

the man who was third man for Hagler v. Hearns as well, and I think that's the closest we've ever got in terms of a fight involving two Britons in the UK to that kind of spectacle. And as I said earlier, all three judges had it just one round apart. Two of them voting for Nigel Benn at that stage. The other had Eubank one up. And on certain versions, if you watch,

then it runs into the post-fight interviews. And Chris Eubank said, I need to go to hospital. I'm in too much pain. to talk, Nigel Ben took the ring microphone from the MC Alan Hughes and said, sorry, I've let the fans down. Just recently, Steve and Richie, this was voted as the best British fight of all time in a poll of the top 50 fights of all time by boxing news. This was the number one. It's number one for me. Is it for you two? It is for me. Yeah, it is for me, Mike.

And, you know, there's an awful lot of, there's about 20 fights poised at second. But it is for me because it was an important... You know, I've talked about it being a massive fight for the British boxing industry. It was also a massive fight for me at the point in my career. So if I put all that together you, it's untouchable number one. And it was for me, Mike, because I was there, I was ringside. And they both inspired me, and this contest inspired me as well.

I'd just turned pro, like I said. So it was just a fantastic occasion. And to be there, to witness that, yeah, that's the best. time fight that I think one of the all times I've ever been at, to be quite honest. And just to pick up briefly on what happened from here, they each moved on and moved up to super middleweight. They would fight the rematch in October of 1993. It wasn't anywhere near as exciting outdoors at Old Trafford with 40 plus thousand people in the stadium. Each would come to be involved in a horror fight. Eubank against Michael Watson the following year,

1991, and Ben against Gerald McClellan in 1995. And each of them would lose twice to Steve Collins. And for Ben, the second defeat against Collins, marked the end of his career in November 1996. You were staying, Richie, towards the start of the show how it was a pivotal time in your boxing career as a whole. You'd won Commonwealth Games gold at the beginning of the year in New Zealand. You just started on your professional career. So where were these two on your radar at that stage and how close were you to fighting one or both of them? I came close to fighting Nigel in about 1995, I just won the European middleweight title and

Nigel was, I think, the WBC or sorry, WBO super middleweight champion at that stage. And yes, I remember getting a phone call from my manager at the time then, Mickey Duff and says, we've been off in a fight with Nigel Ben, do you want it? And you know, you're fearless when you're a fight.

I said, yeah, of course I want it. That'd be great. But we didn't hear nothing of it. And as my career went on and once I'd retired, I remember being at a dinner up in Peterborough and Kevin Saunders who you know Steve

and Mike you'll know also he used to train Nigel Ben and he came up to me and he says we considered you to box Nigel and I remember I remember it I said I was European Middle Ed champion

I said but nothing came of it and he went no he says the panel of people that we know obviously I speak to and we decide on what opponent he says it was me who said I didn't want you and I said why

he said well he says you were tall rangy he says we were getting 10 to 12 million viewers you know on ITV at that time he says and we just didn't want to we didn't want things being awkward for Nigel he says you'd have made it awkward for six or seven rounds

he says he said I think he'd have got to you late on he said but you know this is this was a bandwagon that everyone was jumping on and he was looking spectacular in front of all these audiences he says and we just didn't want you and they chose Vincenzo Nardiello and of course any five

to you stand in front of Nigel Ben, then, you know, he's going to be, he'll knock him out. But a moving boxer, and I was tall range, he had a good jab. He says, you'd have made things awkward for him. He says, and we didn't want,

he says, it was me who says, I don't want you. So it was quite a compliment, really. I actually think, you know, later on in a fight, he'd have definitely got to me. I wouldn't have been strong enough to keep him at bay for 12 rounds

because he had phenomenal power, and you've got to remember, he could punch as hard in the last round as he could in the first round, and you could be 10 or 12 rounds up, but he's going to get you, at some stage. But it was a compliment from Kevin Saunders. But reflecting on what a night that was, I mean, this was a time when Sky Sports and satellite broadcasting in this country was in its infancy.

So we were talking about the viewing figures depending on who you believe being anywhere between 14 million and 18 million to watch this fight on ITV as it was back then. So this was a huge advert, Steve, for boxing and boxing at its very best. And that's why it became an issue for the sport for so long, because people kept harking back to that era. Not necessarily boxing fans, but those general sports fans who would stumble across boxing from time to time or go looking for boxing if it involved Ben and Eubank. And that was so important for the sport at the time. But then it did become an issue for the sport because everybody compared the current scene for a long time to what was going on in 1990.

Well, of course, the mad and crazy thing is, Mike, is that if you talk to people about fights in the 1990, 1991, 1992, all of those great, glorious, enormously viewed ITV fights, people are convinced it was on every week for hours. No, it was on about eight times a year for an hour exactly, one hour exactly. You watch that ITV broadcast. It starts off with them flying through it within about 30 seconds,

it's the first bell. Once it's over, there's about 40 seconds for interviews and bang, it's off. That's what it was. There was no suggestion of building fighters. How did you get your fighter on TV? How did you build a half-decent prospect? How did you bring back a fighter when he'd lost? Like, for instance, on that undercard there, Michael Watson, who had so brilliantly deposed, destroyed Nigel Ben, sent him off into exile, possibly facing the end of his career. He fought on the undercard. Never saw the light of day. He beat Errol Christie on the undercard that night.

So for all of the great things there was about those ITV fight nights and the music was great and we tend to blow them out of all proportion. They were 60 minutes, 10, 12 times a year at the most. Let's not get away from that. We have more boxing in one weekend nowadays if BT and Sky go against each other than we got in entire years. Those are facts, Mike. That's not me. That's not me over-egging it. So as much as I love them, God, they were incredible,

especially for the sport, because they brought millions to us. They've also led to all those people now, all those millions, and their sons and daughters moaning that what we've got now is a like we used to have back then. And those two, by the way, shared peanuts. They shared just about half a million quid. Let's get that right. 17 or 18 million viewers, and they shared about half a million quid. Yeah, add that, put that into modern terms. Trust me, you wouldn't get anybody in the ring. But what cannot be diluted, Richie, is the memory of that night. And that's the kind of fight that if you're ever struggling for whatever reason about boxing, just stick that on and you'll fall back in love. Yes, it really did have everything. Obviously, it was up the road

for me at the NEC. So, yeah, it had everything. But for me, the question marks were certainly answered about Chris Eubank, how tough he was, because he took some big, big shots in the fight. I thought his game plan was excellent. He really showed it, I thought, a clever boxing brain, Eubank in that fight, you know, and it had everything, it had the power, it had the boxing skills. But he, like I said, he boxed a clever contest on that back foot, and he answered a lot of questions for me, because I thought Nigel Ben was going to win the fight. And like I said, I just thought overall Nigel was probably a victim of his own success. He landed big shots and he kept going for the knockout, trying to knock Eubank out with every punch that he threw.

But he walked on to too many and eventually it affected him more than it affected Eubank. Because they both taken big punches but it just weakened him a little bit and it wasn't to be for Nigel. But it was a tremendous, tremendous contest and like I said, it inspired me as a young pro. exciting that we were talking over each other throughout that contest. That's always a sign of just how special it is, and it was back in November 1990 when Chris Eubank beat Nigel Ben in the first ever all-British world middleweight title fight to take the WBO title. And that's the latest in our series. We're back next week with another of our greatest fights. So do join us on Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce.