5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Greatest Fights: Corrales v Castillo with Joe Goossen

Episode Date: July 2, 2020

Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo produced a contest for the ages back in 2005, featuring one of the most dramatic comebacks ever seen.Joe Goossen was in Corrales' corner that night, and joins Mike and Steve to remember their game plan for the fight, the subtle tricks trainers and fighters can pull to gain an advantage, and the tragedy of Corrales' death two years later.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return. turn on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by pocket hose. I'm a mom and a homeowner, so I feel like I'm always outside using a hose for something.

And I used to go through a new hose every year because of kings and tangles. I'm definitely not gentle with my hose. I drag it across the driveway, around the yard, and I just wanted something that's easy and durable. That's why the pocket hose ballistic has honestly been such a great upgrade for me. It's super lightweight, easy to manage, and easy to store. You turn the water on and it grows, and when you turn the water off, it shrinks back down to pocket size. And I love that it's reinforced with a liquid crystal polymer used in bulletproof vests, so it feels really tough and long-lasting.

For a limited time, when you purchase a new pocket hose ballistic, you'll get a free 360 degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash podcast. BBC Sounds, music, radio podcasts. Costello and Bunce's greatest fights. It's the latest in our series of greatest fights on five live boxing with Costello

and Bunce. And today we're traveling back 15 years to May, 2005 and not for the first time in the series. We're going to Las Vegas and in this instance to the Mandalay Bay Event Centre and across the series we feature some very special contests but this is one Steve that many have as their ultimate number one of all time. And if it's not the number one fight of all time it involves one of the most amazing rounds of all time something that I think every single person can agree on and what's really interested about this one Mike is it feels so fresh It feels so new.

And you get the sense watching it again, which is something that you and I have to do before we go on and record these fights, all of this greatest fight series. But as you're watching it, just like we had, all those weeks ago with Sugar Ray Leonard, you knew what was coming next, didn't you?

You stopped it, and you knew that that second, that was when Castillo did something, or you knew that was the second when suddenly Carales wobbled. You got that sense. You've got that feeling. And that's what I like. so much. And that's why I love, it's what I love so much about this fight, is that I've been,

you live it every time you'll watch it. You're living, you're back to that night when you were watching it live. And it is quite amazing. I'm sure many of you were wondering when we would get to this particular contest. The American Diego Corales against Mexico's Jose Luis Castillo at the Mandalay Bay Event Center, as I say, in May of 2005. It was a lightweight unification contest, the WBC belt held by Castillo with Corales coming in as the WBO champion. And a little later, we're going to be joined by Corales' trainer on the night, Joe Gousson, one of the most respected trainers on the planet, a man who's also worked with Michael Nunn and Joel Casimir.

In fact, in the ring against Corales and over here in the UK for a brief spell with Amir Khan. And this is the kind of contest, Steve, as it's unfolding. And I know we've said this about many a contest in the past, but this to me seems to take it to another level. It can't go on like this. You're saying it after the second, third and fourth round. It can't go on like this, and it does.

In fact, when you watch the fight, the first round's quite incredible. And you kind of expect it. You know, they both do things that maybe you didn't expect evil to do, and that's what makes it geo. And that's often what makes great fights happen when two fighters maybe disregard what they're best at and get involved in something else. Get sucked in, as an expression.

I like to use. But then the second round is better than the first round. And it kind of builds from there, Mike. And it just keeps going. And it just keeps going. And the asterix, the problem with this fight is apart from the last round, I'll give it away if no one knows, apart from the 10th round. Apart from it. And if you didn't know that boy, you're still in for a treat, I can assure you. All bets off, as they say. No one really, let's be brutally honest here.

Before that bell sounds at the start of round 10, the judges, the experts, the lucky nine or 10,000 who are there, and the hundreds of thousands watching, or the millions watching around. the globe. If you'd have stopped it there, nobody could have told you what was going to happen in the following 120 odd seconds. Nobody, Mike. It's interesting. You mentioned the crowd there, Steve, because there were only 5,000 people in the Mandalay Bay event center. It was less than half full, which just goes to show that these two weren't rated as superstars at the time, highly respected in the sport. But a lot of the fights we've covered during the series, going right back to the start with Leonard and Hearns, they were true sporting superstars, spread beyond the sport. And I think that's why this became, you know, if you turn into an

after-timer, genuinely and rightly, this became a very important fight for the sport at that time, Steve, because the previous year, Oscar de La Jolla had been beaten at middleweight by Bernard Hopkins. So his star, which had been in the ascendancy for so long, was beginning to fade. He would still come back and he'd have the big fight against Floyd Mayweather. But the golden boy aura was beginning to fade. Floyd Mayweather was still struggling at this stage in 2005. It sounds strange now, but he was, because I've charted his career very closely, struggling for acceptance and recognition, even though he'd beaten both of these men in recent years. And then in the heavyweight division, Steve, supposedly, you know, the star attractions where you had Lamont Brewster, Chris Byrd, John Ruiz.

And so, again, the appeal of the heavyweight division, if you talk about the heavyweight division being very important for the health of the sport as a whole, wasn't attracting the kind of interest that it would do in later years. years and had done in previous years. And of course, Vitali Klitsko was one of the title holders, but he was injured at the time and would walk away from the sport later in the year because of those injuries. So this became, in its nature, being such a special fight, it became very important for the sport itself at that time, Steve. And another reason, another factor why there were fewer than six thousand people in. I didn't realize it was that small. I thought it was about eight or nine, but six, under six is quite incredible because everyone knew it would

be a good fight. It might be one of those situations, Steve, where that was the number that paid. some, if you like, paper tickets and they were more in there. But it's certainly, as you listen through to the fight, you know, it doesn't blow your ears away, even though it's such a classic. It's still the Mandalay Bay, remember, Mike? And the Mandalay Bay, even though it's about only a 10 or 15 minute walk in the heat

from the MGM, it's not the MGM. So it doesn't have that, it doesn't have that attachment to the MGM, that just that kind of natural walk-up, that natural audience that the MGM has traditionally had over the years. But, Mike, neither of them were protected fighters. They both lost at that point. Corales had lost a couple of times. He said destroyed by Mayweather,

dropped five times pulled out by his corner, stopped by Casamayo. And Castillo had won a world title, lost a world title, and he'd lost six times, and there was a draw in there. But there was, I can remember it quite clearly at the time.

And you know the research I do, Mike. I'll only read contemporary reports. So I'll track down the L.A. Times for the time, the New York Times for the time. And I'll go back and find what I wrote in the buildup to the fight. And I know that from what I wrote at the time

and from the stuff, I was reading the contemporary stuff I was reading. Everybody was predicting the type of fight we got. Everybody was predicting something that would be special, something that would be memorable. And if it wasn't a 50-50 fight, and I'm not sure how the book he's had it, it certainly seemed to be that way

with the contemporary writers that I read, the half a dozen I've been reading over this last few hours, prepping for this. It was, and it reminded me of why there was such a great sense of anticipation. And perhaps, Mike, and I'll put this out there, perhaps this is one of those fights that was always bigger online.

Now, we haven't done any of those fights so far in this series. Every single fight we've done so far in this series has been standalone great, standalone genius, even the ones that were before the online presence. This one, perhaps, is a fight that, you know, 2005, the websites were flowing, The forums were flowing. They were big news. Perhaps this was a fight that was a massive online fight, where it has in some ways remained. That's an interesting thought as an undertone to what is genius.

Well, as you said, Steve, the bookmakers had it very close. It was pretty much even money. Pickham, as they say, in the United States, just to add some figures. Corales at the time was 27 years old, a record of 39 and 2, those defeats to Floyd Mayweather and Yoel Casimir. in recent years. He'd been together 14 months with Joe Gousson, who I'm delighted to say joins us now from his home in California. Great to have you with us, Joe. Oh, it's great to be here. Great to be here, Mike. Thank you. We've been talking about what this contest means for us just as boxing fans, but the very mention of the contest, Joe, what does it do for you? What does it stir in you?

Well, you know, it's a bag of emotions. It really is. At the particular time that I was in the corner, there was very little emotion from, you know, internally. It was pretty much a strict observance of what was happening in the ring because you really don't want to miss anything by being too emotional about something. You have to be pretty steady. And I think that was what my feeling was during the fight. Now, I know at the very end, I let it all go. And even to this day, it's one of the few fights of mine that I've been involved in that if I'm turning the channels and I see it, I can't help but just stop and watch it.

And give us an idea of who Diego Corales was. You'd been together for two fights, 14 months or so at this stage. So what was he like to deal with as a trainer? Well, I had been with him, but I was also up against him. him with Casamior. That was the second loss you talked about of Diego. I had Casamaior that was on the undercard of the James Tony Holyfield fight. And it was

an incredible, that fight was almost as incredible, or could have turned out to be as the Castillo Corrales fight. It was fireworks all the way. But yeah, and then in the immediate rematch, I switched corners, which is

not, doesn't happen very often. So, but that being said, Diego was one of a kind. And, you know, the great ones usually are. There's something about them that's very special. He was a good man, I can tell you that. I love Diego.

He spent probably of all the fighters besides the Relis brothers, spent the most time at my home. He was comfortable with me and my family and vice versa. And he was not, my wife is seeing every fighter I've ever trained. At one point of the other, they're going to end up at my house. And she remarked, he's like the most normal guy I've ever met as far as him being a fight. In other words, he didn't really fit the mold once you got him out of the ring or out of the gym.

He'd rather talk to my wife and my daughters about, you know, recipes because he was a cook. You know, I mean, a chef. He can really cook. He was a man of many trades. So he really enjoyed conversation where maybe myself and his, the other trainer I had, Ed Jackson, who came from Texas, who was with Diego for many years. We'd call him Jack.

We'd be watching, you know, ESPN or something. And Diego would be in the kitchen chatting up with the girls. So he was different in that regard. He was a very normal, you know, guy in that recent. expect, but he was funny. He was fun. He was energetic. He was loving. He would bring me back presents from trips, you know, like he bought me shirts he thought I might like. He was a great guy. I miss him dearly. He was one of a kind. He really was. And then you separate that, that really, I want to say, you know, he had a timid personality outside the ring. He was very, and I don't

mean timid, like he was, but he was kind of a shy guy. But, you know, inside that Jim and the ring, man, that switch would go on and he was a whole different cat. Joe, allowing for what you're saying there, and it's clear that, you know, you get that sense from the moment you start working in the corner and the times that you were together. But what, did that make it that much harder during the fight to try and be outwardly calm, to somehow control your emotions? Because, you know, you're a fairly emotional guy anyway. You know, you get fairly agitator, as they say, in the corner generally. But on that particular occasion, apart from snapping at the dock after about round nine, you're incredibly calm, Joe.

I loved it. Yeah, well, the dock was a different fight. You snapped at this dock as well. You snapped at this dog. Well, look, I mean, if, no, no, not in this fight. There was no interaction with the doctor that I remember, of any consequence, at least. He may have come over at Czech Diego, but I don't remember barking at him at all. That was in the Mathise-Malina fight.

But, you know, look, if you look at any other sport, baseball, football, at least Americans more, baseball, football, basketball, the coaches are very involved with the referees or the officials if they think something is askew. or they think they made the wrong call or they're not calling it exactly right. So, you know, because I played those sports and I come from a very athletic family, I kind of took that attitude into boxing where, you know, they're not necessarily off limits

if you have a complaint, normally, you know, the referee, let's say. So, yeah, I may get involved. But with Diego, again, I've had plenty of fighters that, you know, I am very, very close with. I mean, in fact, I don't even like training fighters if I can't get close with them. I want to have a personal relationship with them. I want them to trust me and know me. So for me, in the Corallus fight, I've learned one thing over the decades.

You have to really detach yourself emotionally, see? And if you don't do that, if you get too emotional one way or the other, because your feelings, you might make the wrong call. So I'm just very observant and I focus in, you know, I got a lot of tunnel vision when I'm in the corner. And I just think that when I focus and concentrate like that, like a fighter does, because the fighters can come back to the corner and you can say things to them and they're just got a blank stare on them because they're so focused and they're in a battle for their lives that, you know, they're not very nonchalant about things. They're very focused. And you might think if you didn't know them, they weren't listening to you, but they are. So it's that type of concentration thing on the fighter. I have my own way of concentrating, but I keep the emotion out of it because it cannot help you.

You have to just kind of go by the book what you're seeing to make your adjustments or sometimes even call the fight off because you can see where it's going to go. So that doesn't happen too often, but I have had to do that before. But I'm very focused. I guess that's the word, and it's hard to pull me out of that. I wasn't listening to the crowd. I really don't hear a lot of that action outside of my own point of view in the fight. I really don't hear or see a lot. I'm pretty deep into my concentration factor.

Well, we're going to head over to the Mandalay Bay very shortly for you to take us through some of the key rounds in the fight, Joe, and as I've said earlier, one, two, and three, and eight, nine, and ten. But before we get there, Jose Luis Castillo was 31 at the time. He'd lost six of 59 contests, being a pro for 15 years. Those are the figures. Give us an idea of who he was in boxing at the time. And therefore, what sort of challenge was presented to you and to Diego? That's a great question. First off, he was a protege of Julio Cesar Chavez, Sr. And he fought like Chavez.

Now, in brief, when preparing for the fight and looking at film, you could tell he gave the greatest guy in the world trouble, and that was Floyd Maydweather. You know, some people say Castile won that fight. It was a very close fight. I'm not sure I totally agree with that. But, you know, I knew right there when you could pin Mayweather, you know, you're a pretty good fighter. He was relentless.

He was very heavy-handed. And I knew because of the Mayweather fight that Mayweather had a hard time getting away from Castillo. Now, a lot of people thought, you know, maybe Diego should box and use his height and reach. But if Mayweather couldn't get away from him, how's a guy that never? never really went backwards like Corral is going to get away from him, you know? So then, you know, you came down to what type of strategy were you going to use against Castillo. Again, one of the great inside fighters, he was modeled in the, you know, really a clone of Chavez as far as I was concerned, and that's dangerous. So my thoughts were, what the hell are we going to do?

to beat this guy because, you know, most guys didn't sit in the pocket with Diego because they knew he was so strong that they kind of moved on him. So Diego was constantly chasing guys. Like he was chasing Casimir, or he was chasing Frida's. You know, guys didn't want to sit in the pocket with him.

But then again, you know, I, he, so he didn't get to show a lot of his skill on the inside in previous fights because guys were, like I said, moving on him. but I knew he could fight on the inside. I wasn't as confident as him backing up and boxing against Castillo. So I chose to implement against Castillo a kind of a, you know, catch him off guard, element of surprise, submarine him from the beginning.

Because I had to believe that when he was in camp, he was probably, he was not thinking that we were going to come right at him. I really don't think anybody did. I think they thought we were going to use our height and reach. He probably had taller guys that moved on them, which is a whole different pace than what we were going to bring. So ultimately, I was counting on him thinking we were going to box, using guys and sparring that we're going to box and move on them,

where he'd have to go after them, adjust, follow them somewhere else. It's a different type of pace. I don't think they believed we could fight on the inside that well. So those were all the elements of surprise I wanted to bring to the fight. I knew that that was the only way, if we didn't soften up Castillo early, that the second half of the fight was going to be really treacherous for us. So it was treacherous regardless of what you're going to do with those two guys. So I felt the best thing to do was going in Submarina,

count on Diego's inside skills, which we worked on, believe me. we honed and worked and studied. This was, you know, this didn't happen by accident, you know, the unfolding of this fight. And I think if you look in the corner of Castillo in the first couple rounds, they were caught off guard by it because he was breathing heavily. His trainer wasn't saying anything because I think we did surprise him. And I think we did catch him off guard. And I think even Al Bernsey, my dear, dear friend,

who was one of the great boxing commentators of all time, who kind of mentored me, I think he even questioned that strategy at the beginning. And I don't blame him because probably nobody would have believed it. Had we told him, yeah, we're just going to go right at Castillo, sit in the pocket with him all night. I don't think that would have been the chosen strategy for a lot of guys. But based on what I just told you, how I, you know, the Mayweather thing,

how Castillo would chase you down all night. And if you didn't bang them up a little bit early, it might be really bad for you later on in the fight. So I just think everything that we studied and talked about, we decided on that game plan and we went for it. But again, I don't think Castillo's camp was expecting us to do that. Well, let's head over then to the night of the fight, Joe, and see how it all played out on May the 7th, 2005.

The fight for the WBC and WBO lightweight title, between Diego, Corales and Jose Luis Castillo. We're going to take it right from the first bell and we'll mark when that first bell rings so that you can follow along with us, everybody listening and those of you who are watching at the same time listening to Joe's guidance as to what was going on in his mind in the corner and how the fight was unfolding

from the eye of the storm. The gum shield has been placed into the mouth of Jose Luis Castillo with that terrific record as Joe was saying went so close a couple of times against Floyd Mayweather at HBO and their commentary team thought that Castillo won the first of those fights and Corales from the corner on the far side of the ring as we look on as television viewers here

and now the contest that was so eagerly awaited and here you go Joe what you said here when so many were expecting Diego to box at range and wouldn't be prepared to stand his ground he does that straight away as if to send that message immediately to Castillo Yeah, it started to unfold just how I knew it would. And they just went, they just went, by the way, Tony Weeks did a great job.

He was, he, the fighters really never really clinched much. So, you know, it was a, it was an easy fight in a way to referee, except for the end when it got a little dicey. But yeah, I thank God we had Tony Weeks there. So two minutes and 20 seconds to go in the opening round. Some very good deft work with the left hand from Corrales. He's boxing very cleverly at this stage, Joe. Yeah, you might call it boxing.

I call it just kind of standing your ground and testing the waters here real quick, which they're doing right now. You know, I think Diego had a very good first round. And, you know, right now they're kind of getting used to. what's going on here. They've had a few clinches, but you can see Diego working the body in there. By the way, Castillo was one of the great body punches of all time. Diego said, man, he had a left hook to the liver. That was just incredible. And we're watching this action in the, in the center of the ring. We're just moving into the second half of the opening round. And you're talking about the

efficient bodywork of Castillo, Joe. And there was something I read, which was a real interest that you said about how he he favored throwing the left jab to the body and then using a feint of that shot and throwing a hook instead of that. So he throws a jab to the body there. Here he comes with another jab to the body. He'll try to faint you and then hook. And the faint and the hook comes now. Yeah. Yeah. As they resume here after being separated by Tony Weeks, he feints as if to go to the body there. See, as we stop the action there, Joe. It looks as if he's going to throw that punch for a third time in a row. What happens? And then the film moves on. There it is. no that's his trick I told Diego he had two solid tricks that was one of them

where he jab you to the body a couple times and faint to the body then quick hook to the head which is eventually what we got hit with in the 10th round Diego kind of was able to defend against that for most of the fight and then the other one was for Castillo to slip to the right and try to counter a jab with his right hand that did wasn't very effective. And we prepared for that. One of the things was with Castillo is you can't go for the fakes.

You've got to either block it with your elbows or your arms. You can't bring your hands down to try to block body shots, straight jabs or what have you. That was a hell of a first round. They both got their shots in there. But again, I think we surprised them with the inside work.

Joe, the quality of the punch from both boxes, the stance, just the genius, the expertise. That was a flawless round. I don't think either of them wasted a punch. I don't think either of them were slightly off balance. It was textbook, tiny, close boxing. I loved every second of that round, Joe. I have to tell you, you're exactly right, because I always say it.

I go, this was behind the head. And Castillo had the right to complain, and Diego gets worn there. But I see is that right hand of the body there. If you see, Castilla was really sharp with that. He'd throw downstairs to get you thinking downstairs. And I knew we could never drop our hands to block that shot. But I always called it a five star. These guys were five star quality on the inside.

They were like plastic surgeons. They were just really, really technically sound on the inside. It's a. It's a master class on the inside between these two guys. See, there he went again. The double jabbed you see that, and then he threw the hook. Diego had that right hand up. We worked on that.

We worked on that. And see, Diego's throwing those little shots in there. He was really good at sliding in those right and left uppercuts to the belly. Castillo was good at throwing the right uppercut as well. But he, oh, look at that. He touched you to the head with that hook and then drop down real quick to the liver. He just had all the tricks on the insides. there he did it again.

Slamming that lovely left hook to the body. Into the first minute of the second round now. The first minute is almost concluded. And the two men are still standing their ground. A lovely right uppercut, followed by a left hook from Castillo. Terrific combination. And then a second right uppercut. Brilliant, Joe.

The way on the inside, they find room to still throw these really heavy shots. Just classic infighting here. Well, I've often, look, I mean, just that little left hook right hand, I've often said very few, I don't know how many, I don't know how these guys really stood up to each other's punches for this long without really going down or getting wobbled. I mean, they were both in that type of shape. I know we were.

I had one of the greatest camps top five of all time with Corrales for this fight. But they just, everything they hit you with looks like it could hurt you to the point to where it would wobble you or sit you down. And that didn't happen until late in the fight, as we know. So they took this type of punishment like that, right there. That was a right uppercut, left hook to the body and left hook to the head. He got hit clean with those. And nothing, you know?

And we saw earlier in the round, as I said, the right upper cut left hook landing from Jose Luis Castillo. And coming up now is the very same combination from Corales. But there are many shots you could pick out here during the course of the round. But there is a lovely two-punch combination. coming up from Corales here. He throws a terrific right-abucat left hook, beautifully timed. And as you see, he doubled up on that left hook to the head, which is unusual.

It's two short left-hooks. He could do that. He could throw three short left-hooks and then slip back down to the body if he wanted to. I mean, like that, right there. That was a nice three-punch combination right there. And coming up is just the most stunning cluster, Joe, towards the end of the round from your man, Corales.

He opens up with just the most beautiful, clinical salvo of punch. the last 10 seconds of the round, the speed just catches Castillo, finishing with that lovely left hook. Yeah, it looked like there was three left hooks in that set right there. Joe, you can work on that stuff in the gym, okay? And you can try and put it into play. But when both of the guys are producing quality like this, as a cornerman, you could be even mistaken for sitting there

and just enjoying it and not actually taking it in because it's that good. It's every single bit of it is quality. Yeah. Well, I got to tell you, yeah, no, I looked at it differently. I'm on the edge of my seat most of the time going there, because I know at any given second a counterpunch like that can hurt you, see? Yeah, we're watching some of the replays at the moment, yeah.

That's what I'm watching. I'm watching about what I have to tell them to protect himself a little bit more and what we can do better offensively. So both guys, as good as their defense was, they're so good that they can thread the needle and just get stuff in on you whether you like it or not. Steve, the two men have risen from their stalls, and this is the start of the third round now. And everybody already at ringside is starting to get the feeling that this could be something special, Steve. Joe, and you're happy with Diego being in that pocket.

You know, the pocket that you talk about so often and where you've sprung this bit of surprise. You're still happy with him being in that pocket as we're going, to the start of the third round. Yes, because I, at this point, you know, we're doing quite well. Now, you could say Castillo's doing well too. Yeah, they're both doing good. But we're doing damage. And that's what I knew we had to do.

And that's what I wanted to do, was to wear them out a little bit, catch them off guard, bang them up a little bit. You know, they were already applying ice to his left eye. He probably had a little blood. You see that little double left uppercut and left hook? Wow, it's just amazing stuff. But no, we're, you know, sometimes you're safer on the inside. You can feel what's coming.

And if you're adept at the inside, then you can also do your own damage. And I think that's what's going on here. Both guys were at the top of their game here. Both guys were tremendous inside fight. You just don't learn how to do this overnight. You've got to be doing this a lot in your amateur and pro career. to get these type of skills. But you see, you touch somebody, there's the touchback.

That's the problem with working against guys like this. If you touch them, they're going to have an answer for you, sometimes two and three answers, just like that was happening there. Diego would touch Castillo, and he immediately come back with that right uppercut. But he just, Castillo just got caught with a big left hook and a short right hand.

I mean, they're touching each other a lot, and they're touching each other with knuckles. and these guys have the small Reyes 8-ounce gloves on, and, you know, they're just a lot of short, subtle stuff going on on the inside here. And we're into the final minute of the third round, and the action has been absolutely relentless. Tony Weeks got a lot of praise for how he officiated here as the referee, but in fairness, the two boxes have given him very little to do here.

They just want to continue at close range. And coming up now is a terrific left hook from Karate. He gives himself room to land a beautiful left hook. But once he's landed that shot, it shakes Castillo, who's never been down in almost 60 fights. And you get the sense Castillo, just for a moment, was hanging on. But then suddenly, in the last few seconds of the fight, he produces yet another rally.

So there you have it, Joe. Every time a man seems as though he's been caught and shaken, he comes straight the way back, because it's Castillo who finishes the round the stronger, or so it seems. Well, yeah, no, I'm not going to disagree. with that. Now, Diego put on a pretty good defense right there on those shots. I would say the best shot came

after Diego landed his big left hook. Castillo immediately came back two, three seconds later with his own left hook. I thought at the end on that rally, Diego did a pretty good job at writing that stuff out and blocking it. But you're right. It was a give and take.

As I always, you know, say, this was a real tug of war this fight. It really was. And I knew it was going to be that. And I even said at the press conference, I said, you guys may not know it to the press, a couple of days before the fight. I said, but you're going to be getting a pay-per-view fight for free on showtime. I knew what was coming.

I really did. I knew this was going to be a war. So three rounds completed, Joe. We're going to move on very shortly now to round number eight, but just to fill in some of the detail and to get a flavor of where you are now with Diego, the action continued, as I say, at relentless pace. Castillo was cut over his left eye in the fourth round. For a spell in round seven, Diego seemed to be boxing at range,

having had a tough time at the end of the sixth round. By the end of the seventh, Corales himself had a bad swelling around the left eye, beneath the left eye, which was gradually closing. But he saw clearly enough to land a left hook with the last punch of that seventh round, which almost flawed Castillo for the first time in the fight. So we're heading into the eighth round very shortly, Joe. but before we get there, I mean, at the end of that third round, and I remember thinking on the night watching it,

this can't go on. We've said that many times in fights in the past, but it did. It was still happening as we're heading into the eighth round. I think it's a testament to both guys' chins at this point. You know, sometimes you show a better chin in a fight as opposed to something else, but that is usually determined by how much running,

how much time you spend in the gym, how much sparring. So, you know, you can improve your punishment quotient if you work harder than you might normally do. And for this particular fight, I think that's what happened. I think Castillo had a rock solid chin anyway. Like you said, he had never been down in, you know, 60 fights, whatever it was. And, you know, Diego had gone down. He had gone down two or three times against Casamaior when I had Casamior going up against him. But he may not have been – I don't think he was in the shape he was in for this fight against Casamior,

probably because that's why when we fought Casamoyer in the rematch, we beat him. But this fight here, Diego, like I said, this was in the top five, maybe top three of all-time training camps I've ever had. And that goes back to the 70s. Well, let's move on to round number eight, then move the film on to round number eight. And at this stage, it's still close on the cards of the judges at ringside and most people watching on at ringside, wondering how on earth they can continue at this pace. Both men showing remarkable resilience and that swelling beneath the left eye of Diego Corrales is still very prominent and still likely to be causing him problems.

But at this stage of the contest, we already know that. we're going to be talking about this fight for a long time to come as we move into round number eight the beginning of the round the bell has just sounded now an explosive start at the beginning of this round just as there has been in most of the rounds joe we had just hurt we we had just hurt castillo at the end of that round yeah with a big left hook with a big looping left hook yeah yeah that was a counter off of castillo's right hand Diego was really good at that so was delahoeia was great at that. You threw a right hand and they counter you with a quick left hook. That's what happened. Now here we are in the eighth and you're right, we had them hurt. So, you know, we ran out

of time in the seventh but, you know, we're rallying pretty good right here. He goes having a good round. And at this stage, the first 40 seconds have gone in the eighth round. It's looking as though Corales is starting to get on top and he's landing another one of those right upper cut left hook combinations. He had success earlier on with those and they've landed again, but somehow still Corales stands his ground and whips in a left hook of his own, although it slides over the top of the head of Corales, but still Castillo is refusing to budgey. Cates another right hand over the top as we move into the second minute of round number eight, Steve.

Joe, your ring side there, you know, you're 18 inches away from the ropes. Could you see maybe Castillo just slowing slightly, or is that my eyes playing a trick with me? Just a fraction slow. No, no, no, you're right. You're right. He was still a little buzz, but he's coming back. here he just clipped Diego with a good right hand left hook about 10 seconds ago.

That was rock solid. I mean, and that's the point about this whole fight. Right when you thought you got a little bit of an upper hand, each guy would come back and not give an inch. They'd take that ground. They'd lost right back from you. That's what made this great because they're both banging hard right now. But, you know, again, it was it was Corrales. Then it went to Castillo a little bit and then back to Corrales. Now Castillo's, you know, rallying again himself right now.

That's, that was the nature of this fight. That's what made it so great. And it wasn't sloppy. It was all quality stuff. And you knew you were seeing something special, I guess, as a fan. Again, I was looking at it purely from a technical standpoint, what we needed to do to win or to keep winning. Now, we were ahead on the cards by two of the judges in the 10th round.

one had it for Castillo but it was that type of fight it was very very close the whole way into the last 25 seconds now and terrific comeback from Diego who after Castillo was landing heavy punches on on Corrales

and we'll see here Castillo lands a right hand on the side of Corales his head and Corales reels away and I remember thinking of that time is he tiring now and is this going to be close to the end for Corales, a lovely right hand again from Castillo. And at this stage now, the gum shield... That hurt Castillo right there.

And the gum shield of Corales is out now. And the referee spots this Tony Week, separates them, calls a timeout, and takes Corales over to you in the corner, Joe. Yeah. No, I put it right back in because I liked what we were doing right there. He was having a nice little rally.

He hurt Castile with a good left hook just seconds before. Joe, you're worried about the eye at this point? because this is when the doctor comes over to you in this round. Are you worried about the eye? Are you concerned about Diego's left eye? Not really. Not really because, you know, they tend to swell up. If you get the end swell on it, like I'm going to do in a second.

I'll put the end swell on there. You can reverse the swelling and he can still see out of it. You see the swelling in it, but he can still see there. Now, I'm going to probably work on it a little bit more. Yeah, right there. So I'm going to put the ends. Well, that's a frozen piece of metal that you kind of push the blood out down and out to the side like I'm doing right there. And that can eventually reopen the eye up even more.

So, yeah, you know, I've been down that road. That was a beautiful right-hand double-left uppercut, left hook. And Castile comes back here. This is when the mouthpiece came out. But look at that. I mean, damn. Just, like I say, that's why I always stop and watch this fight if it's on TV. It never ceases to amaze me.

It's about the only fight I do it for to tell you the truth. Okay, Joe, so you've just been describing some of the action we've been watching on the slow motion replays between rounds eight and nine. Something struck me, Joe, at the beginning of round number nine, and I'm not overplaying this. I actually found this tiny moment quite moving and really summed up the nature of the contest. The bell has just sounded for the start of round nine. So we've paused the action here for the benefit everybody watching.

We've paused the action with the referee Tony Weeks in his customary position at the start of every round in the centre of the ring. As the bell sounds, as the referee does, he steps away. Now, Corales is the slowest of the two to rise. So by this time, Castillo is already making his way beyond the halfway point over towards Corales' corner. And he starts, the action unfolds, but then almost immediately Castillo backs off, raises his right glove, as if to apologize for overstepping. And then with his left glove, almost motions and points to the canvas

as if to say, I should have started in the center of the ring. If I'm going to win this thing, I want to win it fairly and squarely. So if we roll the film on now and watch Castillo making his way over, and then he just steps off, Joe, as if to say, let's start in the center of the ring.

Let's do this properly. Well, I'll tell you what happened there. I'll tell you what happened there. I think that there was going to be a tapy, of gloves right there. That Diego, that the body language, if you stop that for a second, and you go back,

it almost looked to me like Diego was going to touch gloves with him as he came out, like they knew they were in a battle at this point, we'll just touch gloves, and Castile shot in a jab to the belly and apologized for it. Let's see. See? See, Diego? He's going to tap his glove right there? Yeah.

See? You go back to that, and then the reason Castile backed off is because he didn't shake his hand, and he shot a jab into the belly and realized, oh, I should have been, you know, I should have tapped his glove. And that's why he backed off. Like, okay, let's start this over again. You see what I'm saying? And after that, we get back to the same kind of action. Yeah, well, all the shaking in the hands doesn't matter because eventually they're going to close the glove and start punching again. So, Joe, let me ask you this. Is there any panic as you're going into this ninth round, you know,

Is there any panic at all? You're still convinced everything's going okay? Are you seeing a stoppage or you're seeing points? What are you thinking, John? No, I liked it because we hurt Castillo a couple times, although he rallied back, we heard him. And I knew the type of shape we were in. And ultimately, you know, ultimately that was going to play a big part,

was the shape we were in. But I think Diego had a good ninth round, if I remember correctly. And that's why in the 10th round, and you'll see it, He comes out kind of nonchalant and a little too relaxed. And see, they're shaking out. They apologize for hitting low. But there's a good seat. But I think Diego has a pretty good round here,

even though Castillo's landing some good shots here, I think he ended up having maybe at the end a decent round. There's another low blow from Castillo. Were you thinking at this stage, Joe, that maybe Tony Weeks could have deducted a point two in a row in quick succession? Um, no, not really. No, because it's too good of a fight to start doing that. They were both, you know, they were both going a little low here and there, not on purpose.

So, you know, there's, see, Diego had a good right hand just landed right there and hurt Castillo, backed them up real good. And see, remember, we got about a minute left here. And, you know, as far as the judges are concerned, you'd rather have a good end of the round. Oh, big right hand by Castillo. Nothing slowing either guy down. One lands big, heavy shots, and the next guy's going to come back and do the same thing.

You see that both of them are keeping their hands up pretty darn good, but they're so crafty, and they've got such a variety of punches that if you think they're going to go wide on you, they'll go up the middle and then they'll go back downstairs. They just had so many tricks. Good right hand by Corralus there. Last 15 seconds of round number nine and the two men in the center of the ring trading.

you could drop this piece of action into any point of the contest. And then big, big combination by Castillo right there. Yeah, it was a big right hand by Dia. So, look, I mean, that was, again, Castillo had a good round, and Diego had a good round as well. They both landed big punches. None of these guys, I'm telling you, I don't know how these guys stood up these punches.

They're both knockout punchers. And just that right there, that little left uppercut and then liver shot, you know, almost in the same motion. That's enough to put guys down right there, that left hand of the liver. That right uppercut. Oh, man,

right on the belt line too. Now, Castillo's saying it wasn't on the cup, it was on the belt line. So let's, you know, I don't know if they're going to replay that, but there's a great combination

by Diego right there. Castile looked a little buzzed right there. That's the way he backed off. Yeah. Right on the bell, Joe, he looks hurt. Bell sounds for the beginning of round 10 and the referee calls a very brief timeout to check the taping on the left glove

of Jose Luis Castillo and that left glove would be significant very soon in this round, the 10th round and one of the all-time great rounds, Joe. Yeah, this is where Diego finally fell for the trick. He didn't do it all night. Right there, see?

He dropped his right hand. If you play that back, you'll see the fink coming in. Diego goes to parry it instead of just blocking it with his elbow or taking the shot. Which is the one that we pointed out in the first round, and this time it landed. That's right. Yeah. So he... Now, the referee is taking him over to you in the corner because his gum shield has become dislodged, Joe.

You're trying to buy time here. Well, no, I got it back in pretty quick. But this second time is a different story. Yeah, I'm not going to argue with that. And so another left hook. and Diego goes down for a second time, and there are still two minutes on the clock as he's rolling over to take the count from Tony Weeks.

This time he gets up at 9. First time he got up at 8, referee asked him if he's okay, and again, the gum shield has come out, and this time Tony Weeks does deduct a point. I like what, see, here's, now I have to tell you, if you want to stop the film for one sec,

if you look at that, see, now, when I talk to you about me zeroing in on what I'm looking, at. What I looked at there that maybe a lot of people may have missed was what did Diego do when he got up and Tony Week started taking a point from him. What did Diego do? Started debating it. That's right. Showing he's still in the fine. What he showed me was Diego's the fact that he was clear. He was arguing why you'd taken a point. It got knocked out, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

he's arguing the fact that he shouldn't have a point taken away. And that showed that he was lucid to me. Okay. And I liked that when I saw that. Instead of being dazed and wobbly and not knowing where he was, he was actually following Tony Weeks around arguing with him. That was a good sign for me. And we roll the film on again now, Joe,

and we're running it at full speed, although when I watched this the other day, it looked like you were walking up the steps in slow motion. the second time round you were you were buying that time. You know, I'm pushing, well, I wasn't pushing 70 then, but, you know. But I was, hey, I was in my 50s. That's a good excuse. But still Diego's under pressure being driven back to the ropes on your side of the ring, Joe.

With a minute and a half to go, suddenly he lands a crunching right hand. And there's that, just that feeling that you were talking about you'd seen. And now he's driving Castillo onto the ropes on the left-hand side of the ring as we look. on and that basically the unbelievable is happening in front of her eyes. You know, sometimes, and you'll hear from fighters, a good solid punch

that knocks you down can wake you up. Left hook from Diego has driven Castillo back onto the ropes and another one and then an overhand right. And now he's got Castillo on the ropes on the far side, starts to open up with a salvo of hooks and suddenly Tony Weeks jumps in and what a minute earlier would have been

absolutely just unthinkable is suddenly a reality. Give us your feelings here now, Joe, as you raise him aloft in the center of the ring. Yeah, it's one of the great moments of my life right there. I mean, look at Diego too. I mean, he's just, we're in it. You know, I mean, we worked hard for that fight. Look, you know, it's pretty hard to put into words just how much that the whole fight and the ending and just that it was Diego.

And I was so close with them that it just turned out like that. You know, you never know how this is going to work out, whether you're going to win, whether you're going to lose, whether it's going to be a great fight or boring fight. This one turned out to have every element you could dream up in a Hollywood movie, tell you the truth. And he was just, and I thought he was so eloquent after the fight too. on air.

I thought it was a wonderful interview he gave. I don't know if you guys have watched it, but he used every bit of willpower and energy and heart that, I mean, I think he spent it all that night. That was right there. That was, he gave it all. And I don't know how much more he had left after that fight.

Say the truth. But it was an amazing thing. And Castillo, wow, what a warrior. I think it really pretty much ended the career of both guys that fight. Truth be told. With all the madness and the mayhem going on, Joe, what stage did you realize you'd been involved in something very special? Probably when on my way to the press conference afterwards,

I was walking with Bert Sugar. you know who Bird Sugar is, right? Sure, yeah. Yeah. And we were all walking together, and somebody said, Bert, is that one of the greatest fights you've ever seen? And he said, no. He said, it is the greatest fight I've ever seen.

So when I heard him say that, I went, wow, I better take a look at this thing on tape. But I knew by the time we got to the press conference at the dais that I knew they were going to start pushing for a rematch right away. And I was worried about that because of the damage done in this fight to both guys. Man, here's a guy who's never been stopped before. And Tony Weeks did the right thing. His shoulders were caught up underneath the ropes anyway, Castillo's.

He was hung up there. but I was worried about the rematch happening too soon. And sure enough, that was the big push, you know, for them to do it again quickly. And I was not really a proponent of that right away. And in that rematch, which was only five months later, Joe, Castillo failed to make the weight, didn't he? But Diego decided and you decided to go ahead with the fight. and in the end, Castillo won it this time in four rounds? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we had to, you know, look, that fight was a sold-out arena at Thomas and Mac in Vegas. We made a – well, I can't say I made a deal, but I was – you know, the management and the promoters and the commission, they all get together and talk. and Diego and I talked on our end and we went forward with it. There wasn't a lot of choice there, I don't think, considering the crowd, the buildup, the whole thing. So whatever the case, yeah, the second fight

was not even close to resembling the first fight. But, you know, again, I just, I've often said, it, I said that fight was 30 fights rolled into one night. Because you can go, you can go 20, 30 fights and never get hit that many times over a course of 20 to 30 fights. You can have good careers and never get hit that much. You're absolutely right, Joe. That's the type of fight that does damage both of the men involved in it.

And you need to be up close and as good as you to realize that, because I'm sure you did very early on that evening. Yeah. Yeah. like I said, when we started training for the rematch, Diego still had like, you know, black eyes can take months and months and months to go away. He still had discoloring from the first fight. That's how close, that's how quickly we got back into training again, you know, for the,

for the second fight. And believe me, it was, it was a tough one. It was a tough one. I was hoping that would have been the one and only fight they had. I think both of their careers may have lasted a little bit longer. I don't know. It was just a tough thing. I knew in training with Diego for the second fight

that it just wasn't entirely there like the first camp. So there were signs. And he fought three times after that, Joe, and lost all three. And then, tragically, two years to the day from that fight. he was killed in a motorcycle accident. Where were you when you heard about that? I was in L.A. I was at home and I got a call.

Can't remember who called me. But I was floored. Absolutely floored. I always dreaded that motorcycle he drove. He brought it out for one camp or so. And, you know, he was a, look, he rode a lot. It wasn't like he was a rookie on the bike. But, you know, I used to ride motorcycles, so I knew how dangerous they were.

And the old saying is it's not if you're going to lay it down one time, but when. And that happened with me. And the one time I laid my bike down on the freeway, I got rid of it. I was in 78, never rode again because they're dangerous. And so that always scared me for Diego. It always scared me. Once you got the news, Joe, about his death. How long after that did you sit down and watch the fight?

Can you remember sitting down and just taking some very private times, just you and him and that fight? Did you do that after he died? Yeah, no, I've watched it 100 times. But I did not really watch the fight immediately after that. that was I wasn't no I wasn't thinking along those lines um basically you know the shock of it all and the talk and then the you know I mean a lot of people wanted to talk to me about it which I was more than willing to do but then you know I was really getting geared up for the funeral in

Las Vegas which was just you know everybody that was anybody turned to up for that fight and I felt so so horrible for his wife Michelle who was who is an extremely wonderful woman and his his kids you know he

he had a beautiful family beautiful home beautiful wife and I knew that was going to be tough on her obviously in a lot of ways and a lot of people were just you know, really just shocked to their core at the funeral. People were, you know, very emotional.

A lot of people were very devastated by Diego because he was such a good guy. He touched a lot of people. I will tell you that. He made his mark with me. That's for sure. I'll never forget him. And he made his mark on boxing history that night at the Mandalay Bay Events Center.

Joe, tell me after all of your experiences in boxing, the low points and the high points like that night, where does that night rank, that night that Diego somehow and looking back at that film, even now with you, I'm not sure I believe he did it, but where does that rank for you?

Well, there's a few things that rank in the top, you know, five moments for me in boxing, and that's probably in the top two. I'd say probably because I started Gabriel and Raphael Rellis at 12 and 13 years old. And I took them all the way through the amateurs. They were like family to me like Diego. And they both ended up winning the world title in 1994, each of them,

one at 130 and one at 135. I started them in 84. They won their titles in 94. That was an incredible thing. I mean, it's tough enough winning one title. But when you have brothers, but they both won titles that same year, that was probably one of the great labors of love that I had in this game.

And ultimately, it was a 17-year run total. I think on an accomplishment end, that's probably the highlight to me. as far as one of the great greatest fights that I've ever been involved in, it's not even close. Corales, Castillo, is the greatest, I'd say,

the greatest victory I've ever been involved in. And, you know, all made possible, but like Diego Corallis, of course, and Castillo. I mean, they made it happen. It's going to be, you're going to be hard-pressed to ever see a fight, that happen again. I don't know if they'd allow a fight like that to go on again. You know, I don't know if a referee would let Diego continue, you know, or somebody like

in the similar situation in today's market. I don't know. You guys may have a differing opinion on that, but it looked like he was, you know, done after the first knocked out. And, you know, with the, you know, now with the established, you know, thing where you have to like walk this way walked that way, you know, they put you through a little sobriety test now. You know, who knows if he would have, you know, passed it on today's, with today's regulations. But at that point, left it to the discretion of the great Tony Weeks, I believe had we not had Tony Weeks in that situation in that position as referee that night, that fight may not have turned out be the fight it was because of Tony.

weeks just not only as professionalism and his expertise, but as instincts were right on, as instincts were right on. Joe, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your insight into one of the great, great nights in boxing history. Thank you. A privilege, Joe. A privilege. Thank you.

Thank you, Mike. Steve, I appreciate you guys contacting me. And thank you for doing this fight about Diego, because it deserves to live in a history, it really does. Too right. Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe. Thank you, guys. I've learned so much from that, Steve. And clearly at the end there, he was not exactly struggling for words, but very emotional.

That was a special relationship for him with Diego Corrales. Yeah, I think Joe, you know, and he said it right at the very top of the show, Mike, he builds relationships. And if he hasn't got a relationship, he doesn't want to work with a fighter. Doesn't matter who the fighter is, doesn't want to work with him. And I think he did. Well, I don't think we know he built some experience. special with Diego Corralis.

That's why I was pushing at the top to try and have him explain to me how he could love a boy so much, love a man so much, have the man as part of his family, and yet still be so calm in the corner. Yeah. Mike, I mean, because, you know,

he's a passionate man, you know. You know, he's a passionate man. He squabbles. He fights. He rucks. He puts his chest out. You know, he pushes. He's there.

He's a confrontational guy. And yet watching not just the the 10 rounds of the fight, the six that we've just gone over here, but watching specifically the minute breaks, every time it was on him, I was glued to it. I wrote down everything he said. That's a genius degree of separation, Mike,

that I wouldn't have thought was possible. Absolutely genius, brilliant. He made that point there, just before we left him, Steve, about whether in today's boxing world, and we're only 15 years on, that that fight would have been allowed to continue, that Diego Corrales might have been stopped.

But I mean, first time, if we're looking at the 10th round, he got up at the count of 8 and was up and seemed to be standing firmly. Second time he gets up at the count of 9. Yes, he threw the gum shield out, and that brought him some time. But if you think back to December 2018 and Tyson Fury against Deonté Wilder, when Fury gets knocked down in the 12th and final round, I think it's 24 seconds between his back hitting the canvas, and Jack Reese, the referee, waving box on,

because Jack Reese had said to both Fury and Wilder in the dressing room that he would ask them to take two steps to the left and then two steps back. And all of that was time consuming. And all of that gave Fury that precious extra time to recover. So maybe Corales would have been given that kind of favor if he was boxing in 2020. Well, a couple of things.

Let me deal with Jack Reese first. First of all, I think Jack Reese handled that first. while the Tyson Fury fight magnificently and before he handled it brilliantly. But we've said it before. He's out of step with the other referees in the world. I'm convinced of it. You know, I don't know another referee that would have let Tyson Fury get up. And I mean, even though Tyson Fury then gets up and dominates the rest of that round.

Jack Reese showed there, and he mentioned the word there, Goosen about Tony Weeks, instinct. That's what Jack Reese showed there, experience and instinct. And you can't buy those two things. That's why there were no wonder kid referees of 24 and 25 years of age. It cannot possibly happen, and it will never happen. And just to say, Mike, that at the time this fight took place back in 2005, there were plenty of referees around then that might have stepped in and not allowed Diego Corales to continue.

And if you're going to be allowed to use 23, 24 seconds, I'm going to introduce 33 seconds, 33 seconds, from when Castillo lands with the left hook and drops Corales for the second time until Tony Weeks says box on. Most of that was taken up quite brilliantly with the slowness and the order with which Joe Goosen came up the steps. And I'd love to, just like we love to quote the great words of corner men, I'm afraid I can't quote Joe Gooson's last comment to him because there's an F-bomb in there. But boy, oh boy, it should be remembered with some of the other great 9, 10, 11 or 12 quotes by cornermen that have saved and salvaged fire. So tell what, it was a privilege.

And we've had some, we've had a great run on this series, Mike. But it was a privilege to be, even if it was only remotely, in Joe Gousson's company today. And you said there, Steve, you were amazed at how detached he was. And there was an instance there, you know, very close to what looked like the end of the fight for Corrales, where he was as detached as it's possible to be, because you say he dropped the F-bomb and basically saying, you've got to get on the inside. And I think if we are talking about a referee today, perhaps stepping in, Steve, it might have been after the second knockdown

and yes, after that extended rest when he comes under pressure again from Castillo. Straight away, yeah. And what would have happened possibly, Steve, is the referee diving in just as Corales lands a terrific right hand,

which signalled the start of his own comeback for about the 25th time in the contest, by the way. But just amazing. I mean, we've had some remarkable insights during the course of this series, Steve.

For you, where would this contest? I mean, I do change from time to time as to what I consider the best fight of all time. I'm particularly passionate about the first fight that we did here with Sugar Ray Leonard against Tommy Hearns. I just think that the skill level in that fight. Now, that didn't have anything like the ferocity of the fight that we've just watched and talked about.

And then there's Ali and Frazier and all the attention around that fight. And the connotations because of their history and what it meant to the heavyweight division at the time. But that fight there, if anyone says to me, you know, when you're chatting at ringside to whoever, that that is their number one fight of all time and they're not listening to an argument, then I can be persuaded. Absolutely, Mike. You know, the fights that we've done in this series and we'll continue doing it in this series,

all of them revolve. They're in my head. They're in the top 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. They're in a top 3, they're in a top 5. I think that 10th round is one of the greatest rounds I've seen. if not the greatest round I've ever seen. I just wish I could have been there, ringside for it on the night.

The fight itself, it sits quite comfortably with everything. But I think what we do, I think what we do as journalists is that we often add things to a fight. So we add how important the event was. Was it an event that changed and shifted history? A bit like the Chris Eubank, Nigel Ben, fight.

Was there something extra you could take to it? like Mike Tyson knocking out Michael Spinks in, you know, just a few seconds. We know about the money. We know about the backstory. We know where he was going. So we tend to throw things at it. But this is a pure standalone, ding, ding to the final moment that a referee intervenes. It's just about as pure and just about as good as it could possibly get.

And having Joe point out so many things, I don't know about you, Mike, but I must have taken a thousand words of notes here to Joe. It's not for publication. It's from me to throw back at you one day when we look back at the 10th anniversary, the 20th anniversary, the 30th anniversary. When we look back on series 10 at our 10 greatest fights, one from each series, who knows, perhaps we'll include this. Yeah, we've both travelled the world, Steve, covering a wide range of sports, but how I would love to have been at the Mandalay Bay Event Center on that night in 2005. That was a special, special night, not just in boxing, but in sport generally. It gets, It doesn't get much better than that. That's for sure. Thank you for joining us. And thanks, of course, to Joe Gousson for those invaluable insights. On the latest of our greatest fights in this series,

we've got one more to go, so do join us. But that's it from Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce. Costello and Bunce's greatest fights. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over one. billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers, and that's where it stands apart

from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Spring is here and the shopping list is long. Time to make a Lowe's run. Buy three bags get three free of stay green one cubic foot garden soil. Plus, right now members can earn four times the points on an eligible purchase.

Start spring off strong with these deals and more. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valeth of 325. While supplies last. Soil offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. See Lose.com slash terms for details. Subject to change. Point boosters subject to exclusions and more terms apply

One-time only offer.