5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Greatest Fights - Evander Holyfield on Tyson v Holyfield 1

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

Former heavyweight world champion Evander Holyfield revisits the night he dismantled Mike Tyson in 11 rounds, as well as the infamous 'ear bite' in their second fight.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Costello and Bunce's greatest fights. It's greatest fights time again on Five Live boxing with Costello and Bunce. Welcome to the show and you'll remember earlier in the series how we focused on the first reign and the peak period in the career of Mike Tyson as world heavyweight champion. Well, we move on today to his second reign as champion. But with the focus this time on his opponent, And Evander Holyfield, Steve, a man who sits comfortably among the all-time greats and who would have thrived in any era.

He'd been the Cruiserweight world champion, Mike. He'd made the move and he hadn't avoided anybody. He'd been in a series of fights with Riddick Bow, losing the world title, winning the world title back, losing it again. He'd knocked out Buster Douglas, the man that had knocked out Tyson. But more than that, this fight was six years in the dreaming, six years in the making, six years in the plan. six years in the planning. I'll tell you what, it was more than anticipated. And we'll be hearing from the Great Man himself.

We found a Holyfield very shortly to take us through the key rounds in the first of their two fights, the one that led to the infamous bite fight. But we're reviewing today the first contest back in November of 1996, staged at the MGM Grand Garden Arena for the WBA Heavyweight Championship of the world and build Steve as finally

because they should have met on a couple of occasions years earlier. Not only should they have met, Mike, but it's my understanding that back, I think, in 1991, you know, these fights were done. They were arranged. There were venues, books, site fees made, purses arranged. And then a variety of things happened. Mike Tyson, of course, went to prison,

and whilst he was in prison, Evander Holyfield found a fantastic natural rival in Riddick Big Daddy, Beau. So the heavyweight division wasn't suffering. Sometimes people forget that. The heavyweight division was doing very well, thank you, without Mike Tyson. And Mike, I tell you what people do overlook and doing a little bit of quick research for this. I'm going back to that night, Mike Tyson's fight before he has this fight with Holyfield when he's defending the title that he'd won from Frank

Bruno. He then drops that title that night. But the simultaneously, of getting rid of the WBC belt and just keeping the WBA belt at the post-fight press conference for Bruce Seldon and Mike Tyson there was no post-fight press conference because when we sat down, Mike Tyson was sitting with Don King

at 12 o'clock at night at it inside the MGM and suddenly it was lights camera action and in walked to Van de Holyfield and then a drape fell down advertising their fight and I remember the gasps from all of us sitting there

because you know the stats, Mike. He'd lost three of his last seven fights. He shouldn't and couldn't be surely anywhere near Tyson. That was the thinking. Well, we'll be hearing very shortly from Evander Holyfield to take us through, as I say, the first of his two fights against Mike Tyson from November 1996,

later voted fight of the year by the Ring magazine. And Steve, I remember also talking to you earlier that year, 1996, at the Atlanta Olympics. in Atlanta, Evander Holyfield's hometown. He just signed, as you say, to fight Mike Tyson. And the feeling was, why and how has he signed to fight Mike Tyson? Even a Mike Tyson who might not have been as demonic as the one that we featured earlier in the series, the man who beat Michael Spinks in 91 seconds. But in four fights during his comeback across barely 12 or 15 months, he had displayed that same kind of venomous hitting. In four fights, he'd been,

barely gone eight rounds, as he said himself, eight rounds and earned $80 million, and there was genuine fear for Ivan a Holyfield. Mike, I'll read you a Don King quote, shall I? Now, this comes from Don King out of conversation with Manny Stewart, the great inventor of the Kronk Gym, the creator of the style, and a great man. And Mani Stewart approaches Don King. I think it's the night of the Bruce Seldon fight in the September of that year. He approaches Don, and he says, look, Don.

Evander's all wrong for Mike. He's all wrong for Mike. King laughs at him. He says, losing, losing to Evander, are you crazy? This is a direct quote. Are you crazy? We can hardly get Evander a license to fight in Nevada and we're all worried about Mike killing him. Now, I am telling you, that wasn't high. That was the feeling that night. If you remember rightly, Mike, the Nevada commission brought into that fear by insisting that Holyfield went for a full visit

to the Mayo Clinic where he had an absolute head-to-to-toe medical to see if he was physically fit, if he was healthy enough to get in the ring for what everybody, the bookies included, thought was a slaughter. They sure did, Steve. The odds

opened with Evander Holyfield quoted at 25 to 1. We talk about the greatest shock of all times. Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson quoted at 42 to 1. Well, when you consider what Evander Holyfield had done, not only in the heavyweight division, but previously in the cruiserweight division, and then you consider how he was quoted at odds of 25 to 1,

although as the fight grew closer on fight night, he was offered at only 5 to 1. So the likes of Emmanuel Stewart and those sort of claims had started to seep in, and those who had believed in Evander Holyfield were starting to have their voices heard. But in keeping with the regular format of the show, for those of you who like to watch along as well as listen along, we'll be covering tonight rounds 1, 5, 6 and 7, and then 10 and 11.

And we'll give you the relevant warnings and markers as to when to spool on. And we'll be hearing very shortly from Evander himself. But Steve, just to set up who the two men were at the time, and I've given a brief synopsis of where Mike Tyson was, spent three years in prison from 1992 to 95 for a rape conviction, came out, won four fights in a row, had regained the title earlier that year, 1996, by beating Britain's Frank Bruno in three rounds. Then he defended against Bruce Selden or won another one of the titles against Bruce Selden, and then it was up against Evander Holyfield.

And Holyfield, who'd been undisputed world cruiserweight champion, as well as moving up and making a noise in the heavyweight division with great fights against Riddick Bow. And strangely for me, Steve, looking at some of the facts and figures around the fight and the tail of the tape. Here was the man who was making his way up from the Cruiserweight division, as it was some time ago,

but he was the taller man and he was also the man with the longer reach, which we'll hear as the fight progresses, was to be significant. What you're trying to say, Mike, is you're desperate to be an after timer here and try and make out that really, if you'd have just studded it differently,

you had an inkling, it would be the other way round. Let me just put you at ease to let you know you're not on your own. 40 members of the press were asked during fight week who they thought would win and only one man, Ron Borges of the Boston Globe, picked Holyfield and he was derided, treated like a fool all week. I'm sure people bought him a drink thinking there was something wrong with him. But Mike, here's the thing, and this is the after time, but this is the asterisk I'm

going to introduce into this series. When we actually look at the four fights, and the four men and the records and the states of those boxers' minds as they got in the ring with Tyson once he was released. We look at McNeely, Pete McNeely, we look at Buster Mathis Jr. We look at Frank Bruno and the state he was in as he ran, scrambled to the ring that day at the MGM. And then we look at Bruce Seltzden with pure fear in his face,

jumping on the floor, jumping on the floor in the first round. When you actually analyse those, of course it's easier once we know the result of the Holyfield entire. some fire. But you look at those, Mike, and it's ridiculous. Then you look at Evander Holyfield's last seven or so fight. Sure, he lost three of them. But he had three absolute, and I'm going to use the word barnstormers with Riddick Bo. He won one on points. He lost one on points, and he lost one when he was stopped having dropped Bo like Bo had been shot by an assassin. I was there that night. Bo went down on anything he was going to move for a day, let alone

inside 10 seconds. Then there was 12 hard rounds with Michael Moora. Then there was a really hard fight with a guy called Alex Stewart. Then there was a really hard fight with Ray Mercer. Then there was a bizarre final fight when Bobby Chess, a cruiserweight moving up to heavy, he'd quit after a few rounds with an injury of some description. But when you look at those, I sure he lost three of them. But Mike, those were good hard fights against really good heavyweights. But still we thought it would be a massacre. What did you think going in? Hand on heart, tell me what you thought before that first bell sounded. As I said to you, Steve, when I was at the Atlanta Olympics

watching the likes of Floyd Mayweather making his way through, in his case, to the semifinals, I saw him one day wandering around the ringside area, Holyfield, around the time that he had officially signed to fight Mike Tyson. He was coming off a very mediocre performance against Bobby Chairs, another former cruiserweight, and I feared for him. And I really did. And even though during the build-up to the fight, as we got closer, I was reading what the likes of Emmanuel Stewart was saying,

but I still thought that it was going to be Mike Tyson's night. I thought that there was a semblance of the old Mike Tyson still remaining. Well, there definitely was a semblance of the old Mike Tyson, but there were also signs which we chose to ignore the signs that we should have, we should have learned and never forgotten after the chaos in Tokyo against Buster Douglas, the Mike Tyson who wasn't engaging with his coaches, who was vanishing from sparring sessions, The only sparring and training when he wanted to train

and when he wanted to spar, when everybody around him was really just playing lip service. They were just there. Even in the corner, in the fight, and we'll get this when we watch it. You know, there's no urgency. It's almost like, you know, even when he's trailing and hurt or stunned or cut,

it's almost like they're talking to him and asking him, would it be okay, Mike, if you maybe tried an uppercut in this round? Mike, would it be okay? I don't want to upset you, but could you throw a jab in this round? You've heard them. You want to, if you had hair, like I don't, you'd want to pull your hair out. They offered him nothing in that corner. They offered him nothing at all.

No help, no salvation, and no solutions. Well, we'll move on to the action very shortly, Steve. But I'm delighted to say that we are joined now from the United States by the man who created one of heavyweight boxing's biggest upsets in the history of the sport that night at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Evander Holyfield, it's great to have you with us. Thanks for joining us. How you doing?

Yeah, how are you doing? I'm doing great. So Evanda, we've just been setting up the fight there with some facts and figures. But you take us back to that night in November 1996. What was your relationship with Mike Tyson in terms of boxing history? Because you were four years older, you were in Olympic Games beyond him. But what was the background? How much had you come across each other in boxing, whether amateur or pros?

We were both on the losing score. I tried to make the Olympic team. I made the Olympic team. He didn't. We didn't go in a glove tournament. Together, we both won the National Golden Glob and the United States. And I made the Pan American team. He didn't. I came world champion in 86. He became the world champion later on that year.

And I guess, you know, when the first start, we both was happy. He was the headweight champion of the world. I was a cruiserweight champion of the world. and got his second belt. I'll fall and got my second belt. He became the undisputed headweight champion of the world. I came to an undisputed cruise weight champion in the world. And that's when I decided to move up and look to the fight. And going back there to what you knew of him as an amateur,

we were talking earlier in building up the fight about how people actually feared for your safety and your health that night in November 1996. Did what you knew of him back in the amateur days help you to deal with any kind of fear or dealing with the monster reputation that he had? Well, you know, Mike was one of the guys that really studied, kind of try to fight like a pro, even when he was amateur. He would deal with stuff like that in which the rules are different.

They tell you, hold up, you can't bend, you can't bend a person, pass somebody weights. And so, you know, because all the guys were way taller than Mike had longer arms. And so some of the moves that Mike Tyson made, they wouldn't let him do it. And so he had to kind of fight like an ordinary person. And so, of course, when he kind of give up his advantage when he fought that way. So he didn't make the Olympic team. But he was a reign and an amateur world champion in the Golden Gloves. I knew he would be good.

I said, you know, he was a big puncher. And it was kind of surprising because he had just turned 17. And he was knocking guys out. Evander, before you actually met, when you finally met, there'd been a couple of full starts. You were signed to fight and one fight. You were going to fight another time. What was your relationship like with Tyson then in 1990, in 1991?

And when he came out of prison in 1995, had he changed as a person? Had he changed as a person? You know, could you speak civilly to him or was it always antagonistic? Well, no. You know, Mike and I never, we never argued about anything. You know, it's just the fact that, you know, people tend to when they see Mike and they see me

and they kind of wanted that fight to take place. You got to understand, you know, no time that I ever turned out Mike. You know, when Mike went to jail, it's not like it was cause of me. And when Mike didn't fight the first time we fought and said he broke his ribs, it's wasn't my fault. And all these times that the fight didn't happen,

it's not like it was on something that I did wrong. We're going to move on to the fight very shortly, Evander, but we want to get into the atmosphere and the real feel around the fight in the buildup. Tell me as you were making your preparations for the fight, and listening to all this noise about how you didn't have a chance on the night, given what you'd been through in your career, undisputed cruiserweight world champion, these massive Vegas nights against Riddick Boe,

how did this compare? Did this feel like the biggest fight of your career? It was. It was. It was. It was. I'm like, I truly believe that might make boxing bigger. I'm saying, after I'll leave, then nobody.

they like, you know, Lara Holm was a good fighter, but he was a good fighter, he was the heavyweight champion of the world. A lot of people became the heavyweight champion of the world. But when Mike Shaw became the heavyweight champion of the world, front page on everything all the time. I'm saying, you know, he was excited and people liked him.

You know, people like winners. And, you know, Mike was the guy that they learned to like for who he was, not for what they wanted him to be. You know, Bandboy and all, they liked everything about it. They kind of felt that that's a moderation of the fighter that they really liked. Hey, we're going to wander back in time then, Evander, down the time tunnel to November 9, 1996 to the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. And given what people were saying, Evander, about your chances and the bookmakers at the

beginning had you at 25 to 1, even though those odds had narrowed by fight time, It was an amazing occasion and an incredible atmosphere, given that so many people thought it would be one-sided. Well, yeah, but, you know, that's the opinion. You know, my own thing is that I had a good mother who would tell me never lose against a reputation. She said, everybody becomes champion because they beat a champion. And the only way you're going to ever be champion,

you're going to have to beat somebody who's something out of thing better than you. I took it that way, and every man got an opportunity to beat a big champion. very best he can be in the point of facing one another. So we're watching the two of you now. The pre-fight formalities have been concluded, Evander, the referee, Mitch Halpin in the center of the ring and the first bell rings and Mike Tyson in the center of the ring launches in with the right hand and that catches you on the left-hand side of the jaw, Evanda. So what was the impact of that punch that early on?

I was looking for him to throw the left hook. it hit me with the right here. And after that, you know, after that, you know, people like, I like coming forward. I always like to come forward when, you know, and everybody thought that I was going to run from Mike, you know. And I want him to know that I ain't going nowhere. And so, you know, that was the whole big thing was that,

And, you know, I felt that I had quicker hands than Mike. I felt that I had the reach. And I just got to, I got to, I got to, I got to hit him a couple times. Because when you start hitting people, they start changing. Evander, you actually catching him with really good shots. It's not, you know, you're not just touching him. You let, once he catches you with that right hand, you come back with your own right hand. And here we are probably about 90 seconds in.

It's already been one of the hardest fights of Mike Tyson's career. You've stood your ground. Well, you know, the whole honor of the game is, you know, Mike even said himself. Mike said, everybody got a plan until they get hit. So, you know, so Mike wanted to set that out. Well, you know, you'll see when a person get hit. Now, I'm one of the type of fighter. I got hit a lot of good time, bossy shot.

But I can take it. The point of the matter is the Mike is the one that didn't get hit a lot. because people kind of timid when it came down to Mike. You know, with me, I wasn't timid. I realized that he going to hit me in, but I got the right to hit him back. And you're opening up here, Evandra. So we come to the final minute of this opening round.

A couple of left hooks rain in, and we can see in the background some fans of yours already applauding. It was a very pro-holy-field crowd on this night. And even in this first round, the second half of the first round, the fact that you're standing your ground, I think, is it's sending a very important message to Tyson? Well, the art of the game was to let him know that he, you know, he chose the wrong person this time because if he's going to get me,

he's going to have to outwork me. And so, you know, and, you know, and that's, that just, it's just ruled another game. The guy that one of the most, you know, he got to show by, you know, by, how many of the punches he's going to throw. Now, Avand, at this point, you'd already been in with some good fighters at cruise weight and some dangerous bangers, dangerous punches at heavyweight.

But how hard, how crisp, how dangerous were those Mike Tyson, right hands and left hooks? Well, you know, the thing is that I had already made up my mind that I won't get the last punch. That's because when he go back to the corner, I want him to think about how hard I hit him. I didn't want to go back, think about how hard he hit me. And so I knew that was part of the game plan that, you know,

You know, you got the pushing. You got the pushing. You got to beat him to the punch. We're going to move on in a moment, Evander, to the start of round number five. We've just concluded the first round. As far as rounds two, three, and four are concerned. It was interesting to see how important

that you and your corner felt the jab was, Evander. Your corner were imploring you to do a lot of work off the jab. Well, you know, jab is a punch. that you got to use more because, you know, with the jab, this is how you set up everything else behind the jab. You know, either one or two or three jab sometimes, you know, but this is how you can pretty much judge your distance because you know how good you hit them to the point to that you need to step back or move up a little closer. And so, you know, so, but what was actually what would happen might, Mike would grab me when I get close. So I, I, I

I wasn't able to punch inside as much as I would have. But, you know, when I got a little too close, he grabbed me. So we're going to move on now, Amanda Holyfield to round number five. And at the beginning of the round, there's another good, strong overhand right from Tyson that lands on the left-hand side of your jaw. But again, you react very positively. And at this stage, we're into round number five.

In a comeback that has barely been a year old for Mike Tyson, and he hadn't gone beyond three rounds. How important a factor was that in your preparations? Well, you know, that didn't matter. It took to the fact that the amount of, you know, you have to be thinking kind of scared and you worry about I've been around, he's going to go and all this.

My other thing, I just know that one round at a time, I'm not thinking of whatever round I know that, you know what, I wouldn't go anywhere. And I knew, is it two, is two, is it three? three to three, but I knew he was dangerous. You know, because I haven't seen fights where that just when you, he'll surprise you. He'll throw a good right hand, a good left hand.

He just, he had power in both hands. And you're using a lot of body shots, Evander, not excessively. Generally when you're in close, and he seems incapable of stopping you from hitting him when you're close. I was surprised at that. Were you surprised at that? Well, the thing is that you might like to hit people to the Bible to the body, but Mike don't like getting hit to the body.

And so I know that. You know, the things that people tend to do to their opponent, they don't like that for the happen for them as well. So Mike like to go to the body and hurt people, but when I saw it hit Mike through the body, I know it was slowing down every time I hit him to the body. And we've just seen a clock showing us that there's half a round to go here, round number five, Evander, and Mitch Halpin has just called a brief stoppage to take Tyson back to his corner to have some strapping removed from the cuff of his glove.

And now the action resumes again. And there was a point in this round when Tyson threw a very clever right hand to the body followed immediately by a right upper cut. It was a combination that he'd used before. How hurtful was that? Well, you know, it wasn't a solid shot, but, you know, he did catch me, but my hair were going up anyway. As my head was downed him, but he, because it was late, it touched me to him, but it didn't have no power on it because I was going that same way.

I mean, these exchanges here, I mean, he's catching you with what looks like full-blooded left-hooks. you're catching him with full-blooded right hands. Was this a fight that, did you imagine that in round five, you'd be standing in the middle of the ring and trading punches with this man? Was that, I know you had a plan, but was that part of the plan?

Well, you know, the game plan was to hit him and not get hit. So that was the game plan. Now, you know, you pay that price when you get in there. And, you know, so I got hit with some shots, but, you know, it didn't bother me. So, you know what? I was, you know, trying to see that was he showing kind of effects that I hit him? I was hitting him some nice shots, but, you know, until a person allowed you to know what they feel.

But at that point in time, he wasn't showing me that I hit him like it wasn't nothing. And, you know, and so, like, all I knew about I just wanted, I want to throw more punches, where that, because I kind of felt that if they get closed, they're going to get into the, Mike, in a way. We're watching replays of the action from the fifth round, Evander, and that particular combination that I mentioned, we've also been seeing you sat in the corner, a very composed corner. How does this feel to you almost a quarter of a century on watching it back?

Well, you know, the thing is, I actually think that's one of my smartest fight. You know, I did the things that's necessary that, you know, kind of, kind of threw them off the game plan. And this is the early part of the sixth round and there's a point coming up when the referee separates you both and takes Tyson back to the corner on the far side of the ring and calls on the ringside doctor to have a look at the cut that's appeared above the left eye of Mike Tyson.

We're just going to see that now. The referee calls a timeout, sends you back to a neutral corner. Now walks Tyson over the far corner as we look on and the ringside doctor Flip Hermanski comes on. and dabs away at that cut on the left eye of Mike Tyson, and the referee decides that it's okay for Tyson to continue. Now, he was accusing you time and again, first fight and second fight, of using your head, Evander.

So you tell us your side of the story. Well, you know, as you can see, you know, I'm glad that we're watching and tell me when I'm hit, but I don't leave with my head. You know, I'm hitting him with Shatner. He actually really, he pushing his head out there. And, you know, a lot of fighters, when you both going forward, your head sometimes, your head kind of hit each other at some time.

But I think, you know, we probably hit my head by two or three times, but, you know, he would kind of lean with his head a lot of time. And, you know, so it's welcome to be in his head just as much. You know, both was going for. So we're moving towards the last minute, Evander, of round number six. And this would prove to be a crucial round. At this time, the crowd are roaring, holy field, holy field. They clearly been given some kind of inspiration by Tyson being cut.

And here now we see this left hook to the chest, which knocks Tyson off balance, but over because of the power of it as well. How significant was that? What were you feeling at this time, Evander, as Tyson goes down onto his trunks? Well, I kind of felt that, you know, he was off balance and I hit him. I got the point, you know. I didn't think that he was hurt, you know. I went, I went to go foolish and get in there and just go wild and get caught with one of the big shots.

Now, I realized it was a check shot. I called him in the chest, but he was on ballot like that. And they, you know, which I knew that. round, but, you know, at that time, I didn't feel that it was hurt. And it's a strong finish to the round, Evander, as you push Tyson back onto the ropes on the left-hand side, and the blood is streaming from that left eye, and he's complaining to the referee. So these are all signs that you are truly getting on top now. Yes.

Evander, even if you don't read too much into the knockdown, your six rounds into a fight that people thought would only go two rounds, and you'd get beaten. He's cut above the left eye. He's complaining to the referee about the cut. You've dropped him when he's off balance. I mean, without celebrating, you must have been fairly happy as you were sitting down at the end of that six round. Well, not really because the fight is not over.

See, that's one thing that if you're a competitor, the fight is not over. You're just ahead. That's it. And which don't mean nothing about it. You know, you'll find out that, you know, as other people, you know, have won the fight. They have one 14 rounds of the fight

and got hit with one punch by that Kirkland, Mike Weaver. He's not big John Tade up. So he did. You'll let you know that. You know what? Only take one shot and box it. And you get the guy out.

And, you know, Mike was known for that, no, big shots. And, you know, so I realized that he was still in the game. and I wasn't going to take it for granted. So whatever I need to do that was necessary, I was going to do that. So we've moved into round number seven, into the second half of the fight, Evander. And we see a lot of work here, again, with you working with the left hand and using that reach advantage that you'd had, surprisingly to some people, because it was you who'd made the move up from the Cruiserweight Division.

But I think there's also a sense in this round that the pace, had slowed slightly. So how were you feeling at this stage in terms of exhaustion or what endurance and stamina levels you had left? The thing is that I felt that I was ahead

and I was only just going to do just a little bit as much as Mike and so I would go, you know, I was going crowd him because Mike Mike wasn't going he wasn't going to swing at me when I come forward.

He'd only going to when I go backwards. So I wasn't going to go backwards. So I was going to go back with him go back like this. And, you know, and, you know, so he was grabbing. He was grabbing just as much as I would grab

him. So, you know, so it kind of led me, too, that I punch when I want to punch. And, and, you know, because he was always trying to, trying to act like I was hit, but, and like that. So he complained

to the referee a lot. Like this, you know, he would tell the referee that, you know, he can't

but like this said, I'm like, but I, you know, but my head hurt just as bad as he'll. I just went going to send nothing.

And Steve, we've moved into the last minute of round seven. And this is a very important little bit here. This is the first sign that there's real distress. I think real fear,

real worry, Evander, in Tyson's fight and his plan. You know, when we get what's coming up in a second, you know, I think a lot of people, a lot of people thought then this fight could be over soon. Yeah, just over 20 seconds or so to go in this round number seven. And coming up, Evander, is the second of the head clashes.

It was just there, and Tyson's legs almost buckled. He held on to your left arm to keep himself standing up. The referee again calls a time out. Again, Tyson goes over to his own corner, far side of the ring. see clearly blood is coming from that left eye. And again, the referee, Mitch Halpin, calls for the assistance of the Dr. Flip Hermanski, who comes up once again and dabs away with the cotton gaze pad on the left eye. Mike, do you see that? Tyson pulls away, Evander, do you see that? He's having his eye dad, and he pulls away like he's in pain. I've got to tell you, you know, up close,

those cuts, I'm not quite sure you called a doctor in for two cuts like, for cut like, for cut like, that so quickly, Evander? Well, you know, as you've seen in that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, he led with his head. Yeah, of course. He led with his head, and, and it's kind of sad that there nobody never just say, you know what? You hit him on purpose. And now, now, even when we, when we hit head then, it hurt me, but I wouldn't go act like it

hurt me bad because I ain't wanted to do it again. So I act like, okay, that's what you get for headbutting me because I knew he did that on purpose. Now, watch this shot here, watch this. Now, you know, now he hit me with his head. Absolutely. Watching the slow motion replay, it's clear that Tyson comes forward with his head and that rams into your head.

And one of the American commentators at the time, live on Showtime Championship Boxing, Evander, said that, or he asked the question, is Tyson trying to quit? Did you get that impression? Well, well, you know, the thing is that if he did, I were going to be happy about it, but the fact of the matter, he didn't quit.

So, you know, that's the only thing I, you know, I don't know what he was trying to quit or not, but I know that, you know what, that as long as he was in there, he was dangerous. Because I realized that in boxing, you know, That's all I take one shot. You had to focus the whole fight. The fight is never open to the referee,

jump in there, throw the hands up. We're going to move on, Yvada now, to round number 10. Rounds 8 and 9 were, again, good rounds for you. I mean, as you just described, you're doing just enough to outwork Mike Tyson, keeping on top coming into round number 10. And Don Turner in your corner says, you've got three more rounds, baby.

It's only an amateur fight. So what's going through your mind at the time? Well, I knew I could get through three, but I realized I can take that for granted. I kind of feel that he's going to come out there. He's going to come out there. They're going to have to tell to him that he's behind and he's going to turn up the spot. And I thought that these last three rounds, if I don't do well these last three rounds, they

probably don't get to it. So the whole thing is that if you think like that, so you know that you cannot let him hit you. So the whole thing is that I just figured, you know, I was stronger that I could push him, push him backwards, get him all balanced. Because I were always trying to push him back where I can have a little wrong because I know eventually he's going to jump.

He's going to jump. And I'm going to be able to come. catch with the shot. Evando, I know that you spent an awful lot of time getting ready for this fight and you're in fantastic condition. But were you feeling any fatigue? Were you tired at this point or were you just concentrated on not getting here and getting to the final bell?

Well, you know, the thing is, is that I have to just keep reminding myself, you got to stay focus. You got to do your very best, you know. You ain't worried about nothing now, but being the very best that I can. to be able to take advantage of things that he do. What about him, Evander? We've heard from other great fighters in this series that when you get to this stage of the fight

and we're now into the second half of round number 10, you can sense also when your opponent is tiring, you hear them breathing more heavily. What was the sense you were getting about Tyson at this stage? Well, you know, at this time, he wasn't throwing the big shots like he wasn't trying to, He went snapping these shots off. He was trying to hurt me.

So I realized, and I said, you know what? I better not take this for granted to talk to the fact. The other matter is that eventually he tried a little bit of sleep. And at this stage, is it in your mind that you might be working towards a point victory because here comes a left-right combination, which is absolutely crucial, crunching onto the jaw? I knew I heard him then. I know that I had him. I'm like, you see that now.

Another big right hand. I just know that was it. And as you punch away at the end of this round here, did you think the referee would step in before the bell sounded, Evander? It was so close to it being over at the end of the 10th there. Yeah, but you know what? Which proves something to him, me that he can take shots.

I would hit him with a clean shot. but I knew that he really hurt he really hurt that then and I realized that I got to get in this route the right hand that sends him back is a fantastic shot without those ropes he probably would have would have gone down

yeah we're watching highlights of the best of the action in round 10 and that crunching single right hand after the beautiful left right combination and Tyson falls back towards the ropes and you got the feeling that at any time the referee Mitch Halper might have stepped in, but he gave Tyson the chance to recover. And as Evander says, Tyson was showing here, terrific punch resilience and in the end, he was saved by the bell. So what's you thinking

now? 11th round, Evander, you knew what state he was in at the end of the 10th? I knew he was still hurt and I knew that if he still hurt, just get him to punch, get him to punch first. So I puts him back And as you see, you know, and, you know, I know he's still hurt. And so the whole big thing is just keep pushing him back is he going to step up, you know. So you take up the commentary then, Evander, the last few moments.

And, you know what, you see, I caught him with their right hand. And you know what? It steps in there. Referee, Mitch Halpin, steps in after a brilliant cluster of punches. What's the feeling now as you're lifted aloft by your cornerman? I felt that I did it. I actually did it. You know, that's the first fight that I ever fought

that it kind of made me just not going to box no more. I did what I said. Because everybody, it was amazing. Everybody was telling me what Tyson going to do to me. But that's right there that, I actually felt like the heavyweight championed world. I've been to heavyweight championed twice, but after this fight, you know,

I realized I really was the world champion. And there's an expression on your face there, Evander, that says, what's all the fuss about? I told you I was going to do this anyway. Well, you know, that was, that's kind of acting, you know. That's a part of action. You're like, you're, you're exploding inside.

In other words, I wanted to beat him, but then I knew I were going to beat him. I was just hoping that I would and I did. And not to jump up and not to boast about it because the fact that it was the matter, you know, I said I was going to do it. And I was hoping that I would. But that's what faith is really about, you know,

hoping you can do something that's going to be difficult. And when you look back all these years later, Evander, at your career, is this the single greatest performance? No, no I think when I I think my next fight when I The fight with Michael Moore The second fight with Michael Moore

I think that That was the best for me Because I would fight somebody who Who was a boxer And he was left-handed And I knew that Tyson gave me everything that's necessary To be very excited about this

because even my mother talked about Tyson. You know, son, you can't wish a good person away. They ain't going no well. You just got to suck it and know that. It's going to be a day when y'all was going to fight, so you just got to be ready for it. And I was ready. I was just more ready for Tyson's fight.

I was more ready for Tyson than the other fight I ever. Tyson is the one that I watched all this fights and all that. and you know, conversation, how he thought about things and the way he did it, because I knew that that was going to be a tough fight. And when it came to the rematch the following year, Evander, did you believe in what a lot of people were saying that he didn't take the first fight seriously enough and he'd be a different Mike Tyson's second time around,

or were you just as confident? Well, it didn't make no different. You know, what he took seriously and not, I wanted to fight. My idea of that the next fight, they asked me a question. So what do you think about the next fight? I said, well, when I beat him this time, he's going to fire everybody. Because he'll fire everybody. I said, he's going to realize that he can't beat me.

I felt that he couldn't beat me. He knew my style and all this. And the thing is, is that, you know, he just was a tough opponent just like I were tough. We, men in tights and have, we have so many things in common in life. we came up, we just had different parents and all this. And I kind of felt that I probably would have been, I probably would have been bad too if it wasn't for my mama. My mama just went, she just, she went taking it.

She said, no, uh, uh, no, you're not going to be this way. I just had somebody who, who loved me so much that they wanted me. My mama just wanted me to be better than her. He says in his book, Ivana, that he took the resentment into the rematch. the resentment around you not being warned by the referee for use of the head. Were you surprised, amazed, staggered by what he did in the third round when he bit you on each year? Or were you expecting some kind of foul? Well, you know, this prophet told me, they said,

Mike going to do something bad to you in this fight. He said, now, he going to do it. You just got to keep your mind on the Lord. That's the only way he can get you to get you distracted. And so might throw elbows. And I don't seem to throw elbows. He, you know, and he hits you with your shoulders. He'd do a lot of little sneaky stuff.

I didn't thought that's part of the boxing, but that one thing when he bit on the ear, I knew that wasn't, and I was really, really, really, really upset. He almost got me because all I thought about is that I were going to bite him back, and I were going to bite him back, bread in the face. and but since the prophet told me that this was going to happen I told my corner my corner guy named he's named Tim Hallmark I told him well if this guy do that remind me

of what remind me what the prophet told me and so so all I would just think about I was going to I was going to bite him back and my corner guy just kept saying keep your mind on the Lord remember what he said And, you know, I didn't want to remember because I wanted to bite him back and let him know that I'm mad too. And all of a sudden, it came to my mom what my grandma used to tell me.

She said, you know, revenge is to Lord. They always cast a second person like this. And so I thought about it and I chose not to bite it like this. And I said, I told Mike when one day me and was in an interview together, and I told him, I said, you know what? getting ready to do. I said, I get ready to bite you rat down on the fat cheeks, man. He said, you were going to do that? I said, yeah. I said, but I said, it just came to my mind to what my brother-moment just always tell and said, revenge us to Lord. They always catch the second person. Like that. So I said, it changed my whole life. I was called Bosn probably

could have been over. The two best box are biting each other. That would have been some story. Evandah, afterwards, there was lots of discussion about whether it was Tyson in just an

uncontrollable rage or it was Tyson looking for a way out. What's your theory? Well, the thing is that Mike is a very

knowledgeable person. Mike, a lot smart, then a lot of people give credit for it. My thing, I think Mike knew he

couldn't beat me. It might believe he could do something, he pretty much could do it. Mike really didn't believe

that he could beat me. And so it made it hard for you to win when you really don't believe that you can do it. And, you know, people with strong minds like that, people really believe themselves. Do you think he got into the ring in the second fight with that in his mind, Evander, or did he realize that during the second fight? What's your gut feeling? I think that they talked to men to believing that he could. And because, you know, I heard some things that they said.

and said, you know what, you thought he meant to have a bad heart. And so, man, Mike, I mean, Mike, his buddies, you know, I told him, we really like each other. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, he ain't, that he ain't got a bad heart. Now, you can kill him. It's sad that, you know, that, you know, people got to feed you like that, you know. My own thing is that I like winning. I want to win regardless of you, whoever will face it, even with my kids.

When they were young, they think they'd have to let them out run me. And one of my son, he, at, I think, about 13 years old, he found him beat me. And he called his mom and said, I beat dad. and running. And I was like, and I, and that one I kept in this stuff, I said, I'm not giving you a head shot from a moment. So I'm very competitive.

I like winning. I think that part of life is winning. And, you know, but I would not cheat. But I like winning. That ain't nothing that I'm ever going to do. That it don't, if it don't have winning in it, then I really want to do it. Evaddy, you said that the Michael Mora performance was your most satisfying, but were these two fights?

And the first one made you heavyweight champion for the third time, alongside only Muhammad Ali at that time. Were these the most significant in terms of spreading your appeal around the world of sport beyond boxing? Well, you're absolutely right. I truly believe that if it wasn't a Mike Tyson, probably when nobody even think about, how great I was. But somehow, regardless to what everybody think about me, they said, he beat Mike Tyson, and he

didn't run from him. Now, he stayed there with him. He said, now everybody else, they held him and they run from him and all this. He abandoned him run from him. He said nothing by what Mike was on, what Mike did, and did criticize Mike and nothing, no more than that. I fight

him. He fought him. When he won, he then said nothing. That bad or good, he He just, he went out then one. And so that would make me feel real good about it. Everybody says, Amanda, the only one really beating them right. Evander went moving.

He stayed that with him forward. And so, you know, that made me feel good because I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't be probably as popular as I am if I didn't have to be these tough people that in the business that feed me. You're only as good as the people you're fighting. So a decade is almost,

since you retired, Evander. When's the third fight against Mike Tyson going to happen? No! Well, you know, it's not really, you know, a third fight. The thing is that, you know, people have been talking about us

doing an exhibition. And my own thing is that, you know, I said, if he asked me, I said, but, I said, because the fact that the matter, I said, we have fought twice and I beat him twice. I said, I think that if, I asked him, it's almost like me being a bully,

say, I want to go to somebody who I have beat twice. I do a charity thing. I said, but that's if he want to. I said, but my own thing is, I don't want no pressure on me that you just want to fight Mike because you know you can beat him. But my own thing is that I want to do something for my foundation and being able to tell the young people that I was speaking to that if you take care of your body, even at an older age, you can still do something

thinking of it. But this is the reason I say, I can't go number three round, though. I said, that's it. I don't want to get into this thing where that it becomes, you know, a bullet fight. And everybody's trying to get caught. My whole thing is I know if you hit me, I'll hit you back. Now, I'm like, you know, that's a. what boxing is, that what boxing is really about, you know. It's a competition. Now, I don't mind,

but how are we going to do it? Head gear or what, what the thing going to be because the fact of the matter is that, you know, we're both human. I'm probably going to be 58, he'll be 54 or four years old than him. We can do it if he, if he won't to. But, Evanda, you know, you know, you're a fighting man, the man that we've just watched beating Mike Tyson, even in an exhibition, if he tags you, you're going to respond. Of course I am. Yeah. You're asking me.

Anybody that I get in the ring with, if I'm in there with my brother, he tagged me. I'm going to tag your back. If you don't want me to throw the bomb, then you better not throw no bombs. But I think you're throwing a bomb and it hit me. I'm going to blow you back up. I'm going to because that just, that's natural. you shouldn't have to tell other people and stuff. But, you know, we have on the proper gloves, you know, the proper gloves, 16 ounce,

or head gear or whatever, whatever it is. But still, it's to the point that how hard they're going to hit me. Because I'm not going to tell the referee he hit me a little too hard. Now, I tag him back and let him know that's what it is. But as of now, Mike Tyson hasn't reached out to you. No. And until he does or his camp do, you won't be moving in the other direction. Well, you know, I'm only going to do things with people who want to do it.

I mean, you know, I don't have no problem with it. You know, the thing is, is that I'm doing it from a foundation. I'm doing for the young people trying to tell them what life was really about. You start these things at a young age, and at a young age, you don't pick up bad having your own have to put them down. But any bad hand that you pick up, they're going to follow you. So you don't pick up that you're going to have to put down. But you can do that, without necessarily getting back in the ring and undoing some of that remarkable reputation that you've built on nights like the one that we've just watched. Well, but what I'm saying,

when they see me box at 58 years old, they're going to go, wow. How did you do that? Taking care of yourself. I said, listen to your mama. Listen to your father, your parent. You don't stop. You don't, when you become an adult, you don't just say, well, all that stuff my parents told me don't work. The reason why you made it, this fourth call these things that your parents told you. You know, I had good parents, and I had a good coach, and I had a coach. My coach was almost like a father.

He was older. And he was like telling me, he said, he said, man, you not know that you got it. This man told me at the age of eight years old, he said, you're going to be the best fighter ever come out to South. And this man told me that. And he bragged about this, and people laughed at him because, you know, he drank a little bit. But then all of a sudden, when I made the Olympic team,

then I became the Cruzeweight champion, the Undisputed Cruzeweight Champions, came to the headweight champion of the world, then got it again, then again and again. It was right. He was right. He was right. I'm going to finish, Yvanda, by going back to very close to where we started and talking about the fights that could have happened but didn't in 1990 and 1991.

In his autobiography, Mike Tyson says that he would have knocked you out back then, and you know that. That's what he says in his book. Well, you know, as I was going to know that I didn't know that because I know he was going to knock down in the name of one. I wouldn't know what part of me named is six. The perfect answer. Oh, Evander, it's been a pleasure talking to you and watching the fight over again. One of the great highlights of the heavyweight division of the last 30 years. Thank you so much for joining us.

Evanda, thank you. All right, thank you. Steve, we said it after Sugar Ray Leonard had watched the fight against Tommy Hearns back again, that we were privileged to be in his company. Likewise with Evander Holyfield, and very typical of Holyfield, and his kind of personality that he should pick out another fight, in his case against Michael Moorah

as his best performance, although accepting this was the fight that really made him known to the wider world of sport. I saw both the Moira fights. He lost the first one, and he suffered some sort of minor heart ailment, and then he won the second one in Star,

and that was a flawless performance, but I would argue that what we saw there, I'm not going to argue against Evander's own judgment, but I would argue to what we saw there was flawless. Some of that was brilliant. Some of the rounds that we didn't go through, Mike, when he was just boxing and he calmed it down. It was unbelievable the way you controlled Tyson in some of those rounds.

Just comfortably. Just comfortably. That was a joy what we've just done there. People watching those six rounds will love it. And we had a debate earlier in the series, Steve, about where Mike Tyson belongs among the all-time greats. Should it be top five? Should it be top 10?

And there was a fair old storm online in terms of where you. he should rank. And there seems to be two very divided camps. Not so much with Evander Holyfield. And if, you know, you're going to be ranking Mike Tyson anywhere near the top 10, then because of what he's done on this particular night and again, the following year in the rematch, then Evander Holyfield has to be very close to the top 10 as well.

He's beaten Riddick Bow. He beats Mike Tyson. He goes on to beat Michael Mora. So, you know, there's a lot in there that pushes him very close to the top 10 of all time in the heavyweights. What I always think with Holyfield as a way to not place him in the top 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, not to place him anywhere, but just to throw this back at you. The Holyfield we saw there when he basically struggled to get a license,

when people thought he might be actually killed, when everybody thought he would lose, everybody who was anybody, when the odds started at 25 to 1. The Holyfield we saw there, that size, that bulk, using that much skill and taking those punches, What heavyweight wouldn't he have given a headache to on that particular night? There isn't one. He's beaten a brilliant Riddick bow,

one of the most underestimated heavyweights in history. He's had 24 rounds with Lennox Lewis, considered one of the greatest modern heavyweight. The Klitschkoes would not come anywhere near Holyfield. They would not touch Holyfield, even when he was really getting on in years. And he's broken the spirit of a Mike Tyson, who we were declaring as being back from the aberration of Tokyo and Buster Douglas.

And I've got to tell you, watching that again a couple of times in a build-up to this show, then watching those six rounds, which was, as you say, a privilege. It got me thinking, what heavyweight wouldn't you put him with? And you put him in it, and he might win, he might lose, a bit like his free fights through Riddick Bow. He might have won one of them, he might have won two of them against any heavyweight at any time they were at their best, Mike. I'm convinced of it.

And it was astonishing, Steve, how he said very early on. I mean, the first punch of the fight, the first solid punch of the fight was a big overhand right from Mike Tyson. And he casually, we could almost see him here on this conference call shrugging his shoulders as if to say, well, when you get hit, you show the man that you're not hurt and you force him back. And almost immediately he forced Tyson back onto the ropes. But I think that night, Steve, with Tyson being beaten in the manner that he was, was a severe puncturing of his aura. because yes, he'd been beaten once before by Buster Douglas back in 1990. But there was a feeling around that fight that there was such mayhem in his life outside the ring that there were maybe not even excuses but reasons for his defeat.

This time around, it was a proper defeat. And that monster of Mike Tyson was defeated. And that kind of aura was never to surround him again. I would agree completely. I totally and utterly agree. and I wrote that at the time. However, Mike, when they did come to the rematch, the book is once again installed Tyson as the favourite,

and people seemed to overlook what they'd seen on that November night at the MGM. But still there were many more questions than there had been previously, Steve, because of that. There had to be more questions, but there shouldn't have been anything. It should have just been what happened in Tokyo, there might have been one or two circumstances,

but it wasn't a fluke. and what happened at the MGM in November 1996, there might have been one or two circumstances, as I said, at the top of the show, he hadn't been training greatly. Forget all that. That wasn't the flu. But there were still people inside the boxing business

holding on to the monster. The monster hadn't left, Mike. I assure you, when those pieces of Avanda Holyfield's ear fell on the canvas and Mills Lane had to pick them up, the monster appeared for the very last time. That I'm convinced of.

And we shouldn't forget on that momentous night, in November 1996 in the first fight that Evander Holyfield, when the contest was first signed, was quoted by bookmakers at odds of 25 to 1. Another stunning upset, and it was, nothing short of a privilege to be taken through that night. The night build as finally when Evander Holyfield beat Mike Tyson in the 11th round

at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Another one to remember in our greatest fight series. Do join us again for the next one with Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce. Costello and Bunce. Bunch's greatest fights.