5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Inside GB Boxing with Rob McCracken

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

How does GB Boxing’s Rob McCracken reflect on the disappointment of Paris 2024? A year on, Buncey sits down with the performance director to explore what went wrong and how preparations for LA 2028 are already in motion. He also hears from hopeful's Chantelle Reid and Odel Kamara, who will to compete at the inaugural World Boxing Championships in Liverpool in September.

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Pockethose.com slash podcast. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. Nice change of pace this week. Now, the Olympics in Paris finished one year ago. Two medals for GB boxers. It was a hard game. It was an even harder draw.

It's a good time to head up to the GB headquarters in Sheffield to sit down with the boss Robert McCracken because in early September, for the first time ever, the men's and women's world amateur boxing championships will take place in Britain. They're going to be in Liverpool and Rob's named his squad. It's a sacred place, the G.B. Centre in Sheffield. It's filled with dreamers in the gym

and the walls are packed with Olympic medalists. I'm going to go up there now, turn left, walk through the rings and sit down with Rob. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. Rob, thanks for your time. You've just named a 16 man and woman squad. A couple of veterans in there, Charlie Davison, who's been at two Olympics.

She's in there. Chantelle Reed is back after being in her primary school and deciding that she could still chase her dream and Olympic dream. But a lot of young talent, I'm in this gym here, and I recognise a dozen faces. There's about 15, 20 faces

I don't recognise. It's been a year of rebuilding, I'm guessing. Yeah, I think there was difficulties in the cycle before Paris. Major championships wasn't available to us and other countries. Some of us weren't able to go because of the situation that was ongoing, governing bodies and stuff. But yeah, I mean, the home nations are continuing to do a brilliant job and producing really good talent coming through. with 11 boxers, assessment boxes in the gym today.

Obviously, you've had a little look at some of them. That's why it feels like there's a lot of energy in the gym. Everyone wants to impress today. Yeah, well, they're on an assessment and they're obviously sparring with boxers that are on the program, program boxers. So, yeah, it creates a bit of needle and a bit of a, you know, that's my way

and you're not, you know, etc. So it's just brilliant, really competitive sparring. And, yeah, you know, the boxes that are coming through. You know, over the years, you'd have smaller numbers that would get, onto the programming assessment groups now. There's bigger numbers and England, Scotland, Wales are full-time programmes now. And, you know, you can see the evidence of that and the boxes that are being produced now.

Some real good talent in here today. I know this sounds like another thing to say, we didn't have any luck last year. I argued till I was blue in the face last year. You know, we had six of them go out, I think, on three-toes and one went out on a four-one. That's going something. That's never happened before. I've looked back in time. You know, we have guys get whitewashed.

It might win a gold medal, but we have three others get whitewashed. or two others get stopped. Some of the decisions were debatable, one or two were terrible, and Rosie Eccles losing to the Polish one was one of the worst I've ever seen. Was it difficult coming back from Paris? Because those results send one message, but the reality is totally different. Yeah, I think there was difficulties in the cycle with being able to prepare boxes, being able to go to major competition, which has been, you know, Pat McCormack and Galahue,

if I went to two world championships. In their Olympic cycles. In their cycles and, you know, it hadn't won medals in the past and then went on and won a gold and a silver at the Olympic Games because of that experience of going to well. So, you know, lack of major competition, lack of certain competitions, you know, he wasn't able to travel to and go to.

So, yeah, but look, we took seven boxers to Paris and we came back with two medals, obviously Lewis Richardson, Cindy and Gambah, who'd been with us for over three years at GB boxing, but was representing the refugee team. So, you know, inwardly, you know, it was difficult with, you know, some of the bouts, very close, you know, really, really close some of the boxes, especially two or three of the girls, you know, and we felt were really unlucky. But Lewis Richardson and Cindy and Gamble won medals. So, you know, we took, you know, when you look back at it, you know, you had a difficult cycle, but come together and in spite of a few things, you know, was able to produce two Olympic medals out of seven boxes, which in the past would have been really.

really, really good result. So yeah, but, you know, there's lots of learning from it and lots of ways we can move forward better and working harder and more support and more opportunities for the boxers and more tournaments that they can travel to and get the experience that was badly needed in the last cycle. And that starts with this world championships in Liverpool, fourth to the four team, because as you say, we missed a couple of world championships because of politics, boxing politics, world politics, let's get it right. And the world boxing are signed up to run the Olympic boxing.

LA 28 so we are going to be in Los Angeles which of course we didn't really know last year Robin we know in the Olympics last year we hoped that would be the case but we weren't absolutely sure that it'd even be Olympic boxing so this tournament the one in Liverpool 16 boxers selected this is a good start to a build-up to Los Angeles you know it's a solid start so major international tournament yeah it's brilliant experience for the boxers and it's one that everybody should look forward to for the boxes who've been selected. It's a great opportunity for them to show what they can do on the world stage. And, you know, we have a lot of boxers that were selected as reserve boxer. So they're in

here working really hard and ready to step in if they get the opportunity. But really, really good opportunity for them. And also, you know, you touched on it with the new governing body world boxing. You know, they've created these world boxing events, five or six a year that remind me a little bit of, not the same, very different, but a little bit of the WSB format. where you're up against the best. And, you know, if you can box through a year up against the best at five or six tournaments, all you're going to do is develop. And if you've got the talent, you've got the drive and the determination.

We feel that we really improved and developed our boxers over some of the competition in the London and the Rio cycles. And certainly with Tokyo, but certainly WSB format helped us develop boxes. Because you're basically up against the best all the time. And then with the world boxing events, it's the same thing. You're up against the world's best. So, you know, I look at it and we're really pleased with it because, you know, to get to that Olympic level,

you've got a box really good fighters time and time again. You can go to different tournaments that in some cases don't have the quality, but they have the quality in the world boxing events, and I think it's going to develop our boxers really well over the next couple of years. Because all of our success at Olympics, under your control, 2012 on, all of the successful boxers, men and women that have come back with medals, they've had really tough two-year periods in the lead-up. And they haven't necessarily won loads and loads.

You know, it's not like everyone's unbeat. I mean, I'm going to talk to Sasha Hickey a bit later when she's on an incredible run. But I was looking back over Chantelle Reed, and I think she'd lost something like 8 of 12 going in, going into last year's Olympics in Paris, where she lost to the world number one and the current world champion on a 3-2 split. So I actually think, Rob, that it's not a case of winning a gold,

winning a goal, running a goal. That's lovely, don't get me wrong. It's just going away and getting the experience. As you say, these are harder events. Yeah, and that's what they need. And if you've got potential and you've got talent, you need to be boxing against the best opponents out there. And that's how you develop and that's how you learn. And we've got lots of examples of boxers going to world championships

and real tough competitions and maybe not even getting on the podium. And then at the end of the journey, they've ended up becoming Olympic medlists, gold, silver and bronze. So, you know, that's what happens. if you have a bit of talent and you're driven and you buy in and you commit over a period of time you develop brilliantly by fighting the very best.

You know when you get the fighters up here we've got someone assessment here and some that are in other sort of different stages and different setups you've got up here the different groups. If someone comes to you and he or she's had a really good run domestically, like she might have won five titles, come beating in

27 fights, so the man might have won six titles he's lost once in 29. Do you have to prepare them for a hard how hard it's going to be to fight in Kazakhstan, and how hard it's going to be against the Uyuzbex. They're now moving into a different position,

and they might lose five of their next eight contests. Yeah, you're right, and obviously they come on to the program, you know, through probably national champions, and in some cases they've done really well as youths and then done really well as senior boxers. But, look, I think most of the bosses are pretty sensible about what's ahead of them

and what's expected, because you're up against, you know, 24, 26, 28-year-olds, that, you know, in some cases of professionals as well, in some cases have been to three or four Olympic games, some of the Bulgarian Chinese women, for example, some of the Cuban men, you know, Uzbek men, you might have gone to three Olympics,

and that's what you're up against, and they might have won three or four world championships as well. But, you know, the way we look at at GB boxing is, is we bring them through at the right time, and we put them into tournaments that they're ready for so that they can develop. And it's always a long-term goal. It's always about the Olympics at the end of that journey,

but it's our job to develop them and give them the best chance to win an Olympic medal over a period over maybe one cycle or two cycles. Going into 2012, going to 2016, going into Tokyo, which was obviously 21 in the end, and going into Paris last year, you've got three, four really good squads there with loads of big names in it, and some were a bit stronger than others because of guys that have gone over and exceptional talents coming through. But there were still enough fighters in there that were not a risk, but, you know, they were there. Did you have any big gut feeling going to?

Did you think London's going to be it? We've got a momentum here. We've got a lot of fires. Or did you think Rio's the place? I've got a right good squad here. Did you think about Tokyo? You know what? This squad here is a special squad.

Do you look at Paris and where, when I've got three or four fighters here can win medals? Have you looked at one particular Olympic squad and thought they're nailed on for success? I think it's, you're always confident with your teams. But I think, you know, a little example was we had a number of two seed in the London Olympics. A boxer who'd just been phenomenal.

You know, two European goal medals, senior, two world medals. And, you know, you're the number two seed, and you draw Kazakhstan, and then you get Cuba. That's your first two bouts. So that's the standards. But, you know, that is what happens. You know, what happens?

And you've got to be confident. You've got to believe in your team and the work that's being done here with the boxers. But the key to all of that is getting them the right opposition and the right preparation. And if we can get the right opportunities, the right tournaments, the right training camps and the right preparation over a period of time for boxers that are talented, we've showed in London, Rio and Tokyo and, you know, in some part in Paris that, you know, you can deliver. And, you know, Louis Richardson and Sineyan Gavre have changed their lives by winning bronze medals in the Paris Olympics.

So they'll have a real good view of the Paris Olympics, although maybe we'd become a little bit confident about that we do well at Olympic Games in boxing. Obviously, it's hugely challenging because of the opposition that's out there. We went seven Olympics without having a man or a woman in the final. People forget that, don't they? We get a bit carried away with two or three Olympics of an unbelievable cycle, and it's like, oh, it's a disappointment. We've got two medals. Two medals.

We went seven Olympics, only getting one medal. We went seven Olympics without even getting a finalist. Trust me. We went from being the runts of the litter to competing with the Uzbeks, the Kazakhs and the Russians when they were still our boxing neighbour. Listen, I'm going to stop me there for a second. well because I caught up earlier on with Chantelle Reid. Now, Chantelryde went to Paris, and as I mentioned, she lost to the Moroccan, who was the

world number one and the current world champion. It was three, two. It wasn't, I don't think, the worst decision, but it was, I think, the second worst decision. And I thought she could have more than done enough to win. But how she used walk back into the Sheffield gym and the GB set up and dreaming once again of the Olympics. It's a lovely story. Here I am earlier on with Chantel Reid. My old primary school teacher from when I was in year four at Stentfield's primary school

and they invited me in for an assembly. They had my radio times like picture up and then like a picture of me when I was a child at like nine years old, eight nine years old. In school? In school, yes. It was amazing just to see like where I've come. One of the first questions that my teacher, my old teacher asked the students was, as anyone here got a dream and it was like 99% of the kids.

Just put your hand up. I should have but yeah 99% of the children they raised their hands and it was a really emotional moment for me from then it was like you know what that is my dream

my dream is to go to the Olympics and get a gold medal and become a champion an Olympic champion so so you're back yeah I'm back so you're ready to go again

you called Rob you said I'm still in the country I fancy coming back yes that's it I'm so grateful that is obviously giving me another opportunity to go I'm going to put my all

into this cycle now and just work hard, keep developing, and yeah, get that gold medal. And you're down to what we used to call light middle, you're down to 70, aren't it from 75? Because you weren't the rule 75, were you really? No, no, no, no. It was a bit smaller. I was a bit small for the weight. But yeah, 70KG is made for me, it's perfect weight for me. And yeah, I can't wait to box at that weight.

And we've got the World Championships in Liverpool, so you've been selected for that alongside 16 hours. Yes. And there's a lot of talent. There's a lot of new kids. There's a lot of new kids on the block, if you're a huge discretion. But there's also a lot of talent. There's still five or six.

Charlie Davison's still there. Yeah. And there's still, you know, double Olympian. There's still a lot of good faces involved. Yeah, it's amazing. Like the team is what makes it here. Like just training alongside people have got that same dream and motive. And they just want it as much as everyone else here.

We're all here to get that gold medal. And it's amazing to, yeah, just have that good team base around you and the coaches are so supportive. Yeah, it's just, that's what it is. Team GV boxing, that's what we are, a good team unit. Because last year you were a good team unit, going out to, I mean, I remember talking to you at Birmingham before, when you got your kit that day, when you've got the kit,

and everyone was hyped, and the team on paper was a good team, a good squad. But you had, I mean, let's get it right, six of the seven, lost on three-twos. Did you know that? And Pat Brown was a four-one, so that was also a split decision. The team had no luck. I mean, they literally had no luck. It must have been quite hard if you were, you know,

with each day with someone else getting beat 3-2, 3-2-3-2. I mean, it was an emotional rollercoaster for me doing the commentary. So it must have been tough for you guys in the team. Yeah, it was very upsetting, obviously, to watch everyone's dreams just stop suddenly, you know, and to get bad decisions, that's even worse, you know, to lose and to actually have lost the fight. That's one thing. but to know that you've done enough to win

and go through to the next stage and not get the decision. It's heartbreaking. For me, it was like I've got to make this clear. I've got to make it a clear win because it can't be close otherwise it's going the other way. You're not getting the decision.

So, yeah, it was hard. It was hard to watch because I was going to the stadiums to watch that my teammates' box. Every day. Every day. Free two. Yeah, it was heartbreaking. You can see it in the face.

And, you know, you've gone on that journey of training so hard. Together. And it's done in four. three threes. Yeah. Brutely. It is absolutely brutal.

You train for, or in your case, lots of years, you had the break, obviously with the injury, but all those years, you know, when you were young

or winning medals at tournaments, then you train and train and train. Then you're together, you've got to qualifiers. Then you get there and in nine minutes. Yeah, it's done. But it's not over the dream,

is it? As you found out in your primary school, it's just to start. You're back. Such a blessing. And I'm so grateful for that, you know, Mrs. Faulkner, she did an amazing presentation for me.

It honestly means a world. And I will. thank her every day, you know, for that because it was a massive wake-up call. And yeah, it's still not over. I can still turn professional laughter. I still got time. I'm still young. And, yes.

You can be 35 and be a pro. Yeah, that's it. You still got time. You could do two Olympics, two more Olympics. That's it. You'd be, that experience, I would argue, will make you a better Olympian next time round. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Yeah. Been there, done it. Been there, done it. Ready to go. Chantelry down at a lower lower weight, well, down at 70 kilos. Obviously, the weights have opened up for the women at this Olympics. So that's good.

I mean, you know, when they started, it was 60 to 75. Just thinking about that. It was absurd. It was an insult. Really, she's a 70 kilo boxer. Much like Lauren Price, who's, you know, 607. Who's a weight below that.

But, you know, if you've got the physicality and you've got the speed, you maybe can hold off these 75s. But in fairness, the 75 kilo weight division, is full of world-class boxers now and some of them have got the physicality as well.

So it was the right move. They're not just big. They're big and strong. They've got the physicality, got the technique. Some of them are fantastic boxes as well. So it was the right thing for Chantal to come back at 70.

It's a good story. She took a bit of time out. She gave me a call not so long ago and said, oh, I want to do it. And, you know, it's a brilliant, brilliant story. I thought she was really unlucky

in Paris. But it's early days in her Olympic her Olympic cycles, really, if you look back at it, you know, a couple of years before Paris she came in. So, you know, we've had good success in the past with boxers that have been here for two Olympic cycles. Pat McCormack-Gallalaw, your fire went on and won a gold and a silver in Tokyo,

didn't meddle in Rio. So hopefully Shantel can follow in that form. You talked there about Shikavu a call. Why if Big Delicious Ori, Ori, he went to the Olympics last year, it was under a little bit of pressure, Delicious. What if he caught? He's had one fight as a pro. He said, that's it, I'm finished with it.

We're going to go and pursue something else. It might be wrestling. It might be business. What if Big Delicious called you are? Does you have to get in line? There's plenty of heavy weights up here, Rob. Yeah, well, the good news is we're trying to carry on cycles and have boxers. And we've got one boxer that's been here for two and a half years already.

So, you know, this is his second cycle in theory. So that's great experience for him. But DJ boxed in Paris. He did really well. He won the European Games. Gold medal. Did absolutely brilliant there. had some really good wins.

Tough in Paris, a little bit unlucky, to be honest. I thought he could have got it. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit of robbery, but I thought you could have got it. Yeah, a little bit unlucky to be honest, but it must be really frustrating for him. We've put his heart and soul into it, you know, three and a half years at GB, three years before Paris.

And, you know, he worked really hard. He was dedicated. And, you know, that's fine lines in boxing. And that's what it's like Olympic boxing. It's so difficult. But, you know, as you've seen in the past, we've had boxers, not medal, but then come again and medal at the second game.

So, you know, with DJ and, you know, Super Everweight, we've been fortunate. We've had some good Super Everweight. It's excellent Super Everweight over the last few cycles. And DJ is one of them. And, you know, doors always open. G.B., boxing doors big, and it's always wide open, Steve. It needs to be some of these big lads.

Well, let me ask you this. For 20 years, and even still now, every little girl that goes into a gym and then boxes, most of it's Katie Taylor. Some might say, It's Lauren Price. Some might say it's Natasha Jonas. Have we had, since 2012,

have you had an awful lot of guys, especially the bigger lads, come in, and AJ's been the inspiration? We know where Coley was inspired by it because he was working in McDonald's when, when AJ was. So I'm talking, I mean,

and those wouldn't be babies now. They'd have been 12 then, and it'd be 23, 24 now. Are there, I'm looking out in that gym now. There's five or six guys above about 90 kilos, cruisers and heavys and big light heavies. I mean, are there a load of people out there

that are inspired by AJ? Yeah, well DJ, that was his inspiration was, you know, Anthony Joshua and Fraser Clark was inspired by him as well, having been on the program all the way through and was there before Auntie Joshua came onto the program. But yeah, and I'm pretty sure Joe Joyce was as well.

Yeah, you know, we've had a really good run with the Super's. Ante Joshua's gold medal in London. Joe Joyce, Silver medal in Rio, Fraser Clark bronze medal in Tokyo. So we've had some brilliant performances and achievements at super heavyweight. And we're hoping we can continue that in this cycle and in LA. And we've already got super heavy weights in the program.

And we're very confident that with three years to go. We can get it right with them. We all had some highs with AJ. 19 fights, 19 top of the bills, official top of the bills in a career. That's going to something. and those were, I mean, you were involved with some of those big nights. Well, I was involved with all of them. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, those are just ridiculous. I mean, some of those nights were absolutely ridiculous. You know, you're at Wembley changing the game. You think about that 2017 Vladimir fight, right? The last time we're at Wembley, I think, was Frank Bruno, Oliver McCaw, about 25,000 people there. Suddenly we're there with 80 or 1,000 people in one of the all-time great fights. I mean, that was the start of this craziness we're in at a moment.

It's a revolution. Yeah, and it's been brilliant. You know, it's been brilliant for the super-heavy way. and, you know, it's been brilliant for British boxing, and I think lots of fighters have got opportunities that may not have got. The spotlight was put on boxing. I think it changed things a little bit.

Casuals got involved, everyone got involved, and one minute you're at a leisure centre, and the next minute, you know, you're at Wembley, and you're at Principality Stadium, and then you're at, you know, Madison Square Garden. So, yeah, no, but Joshua brought the spotlight to boxing in a big way, and I think it's still there, and I think lots of fighters have changed the lives,

and have had unbelievable opportunities because of, and let's not just anti-Josha, the London Olympics and what came from that and the push and, you know, it's benefited GB boxing with all the boxers that have taken up boxing and wanted to do it. Home nations have done a brilliant job, so it's had a really

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Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. I'm going to speak now to, I think it's your middleweight. No, it's your light middle. Seventy, the 71 used to be in the old days, in your days. Now it's 70. Is it Odell Camara? Yeah, Odell Camara, yeah. Oh, come on.

I'm going to have a chat with Odell because I've never met him. And it's really weird. I mean, looking around it as I sort of know the faces and I know where they are. But I have a minute. Sat down, I'll have a little chat with Odell Camara. Liverpool, your home city, world championships. Do you think you feel a bit of pressure? Or we just embrace it?

No, no pressure. I always embrace it, to be honest. I've been doing it since it was free, so fighting's all I know, and I just love it. This whole set up here in Sheffield, I think, well, I know from talking to you, you love this, don't it? You love the regime, you love the regiment,

and you love the whole thing about it. Yeah, because obviously it's competition in it, so you'd have people at your weight who are fighting for your spot, but we're all mates at the same time. You've got to be having you, because you're together for four years, three years.

It's competitive, but like competitive how you'd be with like your brother, you know what I mean? So you're still happy for everybody, but yeah, you're still working hard to keep yourself ahead. Can you start to think about LA, 2008? I mean, there's a sign up there telling you how long it is

before the first building in LA. So can you, not, you know, not bragging, but can you start to think about it or dream about, let's use the word. I've been dreaming about the Olympics since I was a baby, you know what I mean? So it just, we didn't know of it to be. The last Olympics or 28, so it's one of them.

I've been dreaming of about it and I'm ready for it. Yeah, it was confusing last year in Paris when we weren't sure. Luckily, it all came about this year. But it was a horrible feeling last year, thinking this is the end of it. I always had faith, though, you know. I always had faith, because boxing's one of the main events in the Olympics. How can you take away one of the most exciting sports? Especially in LA.

The Americans have to find some fighters? Do you live it, don't you? At last. Yeah. I might win a gold medal. Do you know these men, people, these are mad training camps where there's tech sparring, open sparring, and then sort of gym bouts.

You went to one in Brazil, I know. You've got one coming up soon here where the Uzbeks come over and I think the Americans are coming over. Do you like those? Are they hard? Necessary. It's not that I don't like them or like them. I just don't really think we should be showing our cards

just before we get in the ring with each other for a massive tournament. But they are helpful. They help you practice and get your skills down. So, yeah, they have the positives and the negatives, really. So the tournaments you've been at when you've done well and you're getting a bit of a bit of a name. In Liverpool, unless not beat around the bush,

you get one win. Yeah. And that's a fight city. The second greatest fight city in the world behind Belfast. He gets behind you. Yeah, we're getting there. We'll be number one at the end of this tournament, just telling you. Exactly.

So who is it in your team keeps your feet on the ground? What, like... Who gives you the sort of the so-called slap round the ass if you're getting a bit carried away? I'd say, my boys and my dad. It's like, if I'm getting a bit too... Yeah, yeah, if I'm getting gassed up a bit too much, you'll be like, all right now, you know, like, can't pipe down, you know, buoy me off a little bit, but you need that, you need people on your side like that.

You don't need yes, man. You need, yeah, need real people. These days are the best days of your life here, you know? I mean, I have a real feeling that you realize it now. Yeah, yeah. This is about as good as it gets. I feel like people realize it too late as well. Look back on it.

AJ, between the, AJ looks back on it and he knows because the pro games are hard games, especially AJ being under pressure, 19, top of the bills and stuff and all the world title fights, blah, blah, blah. And he looks back on his days here, and he loved them. AJ had the best of everything. Oh, did he ever? He's like a big kid.

He's got his own bag over there. He was like a big... I know. So when he came back when he was a pro and he trained him but when he was an amateur training and then when he was a pro training he still goes to finish him now, you know?

Yeah, I don't know, I know. Paises 50, pays his like five quid a session. Well, these are good days, man. AJ brought England boxing back, didn't he? You know what I mean? Pro and amateur? Yeah, 100%. He put it back on the map.

So you've got to, he deserved everything he was given really. Yeah, you're not wrong. And he's a, he's a good guy. Yeah. He's an absolute good guy. O'Dell, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Brilliant.

Appreciate it. Rob, sometimes, nice to do it from my old. Sometimes I've talked to you six months, eight months before the Olympics, and I've said how many headaches have you got? And you've told me the truth. You said I've got one real headache and a couple of headaches, you know, with selections at weights. I have a feeling going forward to LA 2028 over the next two years.

I have a feeling you might have one, maybe more than one or two headaches. I think there's a lot of fighters here. A lot of fighters coming through as well. Yeah, talented fighters. Look, there's three years to the Los Angeles Olympics, so anything can happen. You're talking about Anthony Joshua. He came in two years before the London Games,

which is when you look back, it's like phenomenal to win an Olympic gold medal and be on the program for two years. Josh Watsy wasn't far off as well, Joshua Bwazzi. But yeah, hopefully there'll be more headaches and hopefully there'll be more talent coming through the door. And obviously, competition for the boxers that are on the program and the more competition at each weight, the better the boxer you get at that weight.

Just to explain to me, because I have to explain to people. People say, but he won the national title this year. He just won the Haringay Box Cup. Why is he going to the Olympics? Just to explain, on average, I know Pat Brown was a bit of an anomaly

going into Paris because Lewis Williams had injured himself and he'd been away at tournaments. But Pat had been right close in his shadow. But just to explain, in the two years for an Olympics, How many times a guy or man or woman that goes to the Olympics might be out in international competition in a two-year period?

Just roughly. Yeah, well, you'll be constantly at tournaments. You'll have rest periods, but you'll have to go to all of the major competition. You'll also have to go to some of the really tough competitions because you'll get the different continents at those tournaments. The Stranger tournament, for example, in the past, in previous cycles, that would be held in Bulgaria.

But you'd get, like Cubans, you'd get Camptuans, you get Kazakhs, you get Uzbeks, Russians, everyone would go to it. So, you know, Brazilian, so you need the mix of style. So, you know, our job is to get them as much experience and much opportunities to box the boxes throughout the world. You know, the Indian team very strong at men and women's world championships. And in some cases, in Europe and obviously in the UK, you don't always come across those styles. World championships, you'll certainly come across them. But, you know, the preparation for the games so that it's not a shock, it's our job to be doing that from the moment you join the program.

our talent and potential that you learn the stars. And then we do the training camps, you know, China. There's lots of countries. Because you've got one coming up in August, then. We've got some sort of late ladies. We've got Uzbeks coming in and the Americans. Americans. You know, I could name tons of major competition.

They send their top boys. Yeah, they'll send their top men and women. They'll be here for at least two weeks. Most of the countries. That's fearsome. The camp goes on for three weeks. The good news with that, Steve, is we don't only do spy. We can do technical spire and we can do open sparring,

but we'll do gym bouts as well. Where the gloves are a little bit bigger, but it's the same, the same... It's a bout. Same situation, you know, we bring refs into, to officiate it and, you know, manage the gym bout, and it could be a four-rounder,

but it's really, really good experience for everybody at the camp, but of course, you know, our priorities is the, you know, is the GB Boxers, the Home Nation Boxers, and getting them the best opportunities to see all the different

different styles in the worlds and compete against them in the camp. That's why you can't win the Haringay Box Cup in June and get on a plane to the Olympics in July. Okay, let's just explain. That's the exact reason. And by the way, people say, well, you always have to just win the ABAs to go. No, you didn't. Trust me. You won the ABAs.

You were a star. You might go. Otherwise, there's been outrageous controversy. Look at some of the stuff I've written about 1972. Look at some of the stuff I've written about the 1980, 1976, 1984. The deals that were done between. clubs and countries to get guys on list was just shocking. So trust me, it's never been the top 11, the 11 or 12 ABA champions going to

Olympics. It doesn't work that way. But the beauty of the public's help and the funding that's been created, so we've been able to operate in a full-time program, is that all of those conversations are not, you know, if you win the nationals or if you win certain tournaments of free nations, etc. It's brilliant because, you know, you'll be given an assessment on the programme. If you come on to the program, you'll be given the opportunity to box at those tournaments, where in some cases you're boxing 26-year-old boxers that are professional as well, or you're boxing three times world champions or Olympians.

So the beauty of full-time funding, it's enabled us to give people opportunities so that it eliminates that argument where, you know, in some cases, Anthony Joshua could prove that argument wrong, because in two years he came onto the program and won an Olympic medal, but he had to go a few eyes and lows earlier on in the tournament. World Championships in Baku. Because obviously you're up against 28-year roles that are very, very experienced.

But what you do get is you get a chance, you get an opportunity to prove yourself, and you'll be given a few tournaments to show what you can do and try and develop you at your right pace for you. But certainly it is a challenge, bringing a boxer onto program, and then winning an Olympic medal in the year.

It'd be very, very difficult. Listen, in closing, I'm going to ask you a quick question. Galawyer Fire recently, gold medal a couple of years ago in the Olympics. Lost a contest recently. His opponent subsequently failed a drug test, which wasn't a shock to everybody. Everybody on the night was talking about it.

I know you can't say too much, but how is Galao coping? Yeah, he's okay, but he's really, really disappointed, and I'm really, really disappointed because obviously, you know, how it's ended up happening is really, really frustrating. And obviously, since came out that, you know, we was aware there was a no contest, but obviously what?

From his previous contest which we don't know which no one could get to the bottom of. Yeah, exactly and then obviously he's been allowed to come in and you know

he's failed the drug test so obviously my concern is Galal and how it ended up happening a boxing match is a boxing match but when you look at what was going on around it at the time there's some real questions to be asked

there certainly are some questions to be asked Rob listen it's a delight sitting down with a long time since we sat down for more than five or ten minutes so it's always a delight to be up at the G.B squad. See you in Liverpool in September. Yeah, and I'll just say Galal will be back

soon. He's really disappointed about it and he's really, really upset. But, you know, I would be as well. Well, I am. But, you know, he's a brilliant fighter and, you know, he's unbeaten as far as everybody's concerned now. Yeah, certainly in my eyes.

Well, thanks very much for your time. So thanks to Rob and all the boxers who took time out to speak to me and also all the other dreamers I spoke to. September in Liverpool, the World Championships. What an event. I never ever thought I'd see a world amateur championships in Great Britain. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. In the mid-90s, whilst Britain was having its beckham moment, South Africa was having its own.

But cricket captain Hansie Cronier didn't kick the ball. He hit it for six. I must congratulate in particular Captain Hansa Cronier. Hansi Cronier could do no wrong. But in Jackson, In January 2000, he did. South African cricket captain Hansi Cronier and three teammates have been accused of match fixing. I'm Mark Butcher, former England cricketer. Join me for sports' strangest crimes. Hansi Cronier, fall from grace.

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