5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - IS IT ON? FURY v JOSHUA

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

Is it on? Is it off? After telling the world last week that Fury v Joshua was on, Buncey is forced to issue an apology as yet more complications emerge in getting the fight over the line. Richie Woodhall joins him and adds absolutely no insight into what’s happening. So they pivot to a packed October of British boxing and hear from Dalton Smith ahead of his fight.

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Odu gives you one place to manage your business. Visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's OD-O-O.com. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence.

If this is leaked to the media, I'll be. destroyed. This is world of secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcast. This is Five Live Boxing. We had a fight and then we didn't have a fight, but we did have some fights on Saturday night and we have got some fights coming up in October. All will be explained. I'm Steve Bunz, and this is Five Live Boxing. So I'm joined by Richie Woodall and I'd like to say that we were We're just going to have a lovely little wander through talking about last night's fights, looking at the BBC's incredible schedule for October. But I've got to start with a public apology, to be perfectly honest with you.

Because about 50 or 60 hours ago, I sat down in this chair and I got together with Barry Jones, and we were all very excited. And you know why we were very excited. We were very excited because it was finally official. Anthony Joshua was going to fight Tyson Fury, December the 11th in Cardiff. Netflix, no less. had issued a press release. However, inside that press release was a little line that worried us at the time, but has now caused such a problem that Tyson Fury himself has said in the last 12 or so hours,

there's a 1% chance, I nearly did his accent, and then nearly got in trouble, there's a 1% chance of it taking place. There's meant to be a massive press conference on Wednesday of this week. That is at the moment on hold. Permanently on hold, I'm not sure, but it's certainly on hold. Now, the 6th of June, 2000 26, I went to Baltimore to interview Dana White. Yeah, Dana White's

the problem in this whole thing. And Dana said to me that he would be involved with the fight and he knew where the fight was taking place. And that's where we all came up with Madison Square Garden.

The Garden, it was going to the garden. Eddie Heard and AJ by about the 7th of June said, hold on a minute, our fight, our contract is for the fight to take place

in the UK, in Great Britain. So it went on and on on and then Eddie Hearn submitted an addendum attached to the original contract with all sorts of we need this to happen, we need this to happen if we're going to go to New York. And then suddenly about the, I don't know, the 17th of September-ish, it's all happened very recently. Anthony Joshua said, no, we ain't going anywhere. This fight's for the British public. This fight needs to be in Britain. Then there was a lot of scurrying around and then there was the Netflix release,

December the 11th exclusively revealed on the 9th of September on the BBC that it would be taking place. And then, of course, in the press release, it mentions Dana White, Dana White, Dana White. Eddie, as we said on the pod last Thursday, Sudd was very angry, understandably so. So right now, right now, and this is Sunday afternoon, we have no idea if the fight's going to take place or where it's going to take place. Last night there was an announcement on American television who were broadcasting the Dana White show with Zuffer boxing from the Copper Box. Johnny Fisher was top of the bill.

There was an announcement, and I'm just going to read this absolutely correctly, where it was announced that Dana White's role in the fight would be he's assisting Turkey in a personal capacity, not as a promoter. 20 minutes later, when Dana White was told about that at the post-fight press conference, he said it's weird. And then he said, it reiterated with some choice language,

I'm involved in the fight. That's all you need to know. Eddie Hearn says and swears he will not be involved in the fight. Tyson Fury has since been revealed in the last 48 hours. He had a clause in his contract for the fight, saying that Dana White couldn't be involved, which he claims he had removed from his contract. And of course, that could tie in with the fact that suddenly Tyson Fury was able to travel

to America, having been unable to travel to America. And he did show up at the UFC event with Dana White, Mark Zuckerberg, several other billionaires, including the President Donald Trump, on account of it being in Donald Trump's garden at the White House. He met him. He changed his tone. He said, no, Dana White should be involved. So right now, we really don't know if we've got a fight on December the 11th.

We really have no idea. And I mean that. It might all change on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday or Wednesday. it may be definitely on again, it may be definitely off. Again, Richie Woodall is with me. Sorry for rambling on there, Rich. I had to try and get some of those facts and figures out

and get it straight. Where are we, what's going on, Rich? Well, I'd like to say that I've been following it with interest, everything that's been going on. But Steve, I can honestly say I haven't got a Scooby-Doo what is going on here or whether this fight is going to take place or I just haven't got a clue, mate. I'm sorry, I can't answer the question.

That's how I am answering the question. I don't know. Wouldn't it be lovely if everyone told the truth? Because the moment it was announced December 11, my phone ping with, if I told you it'd be December 11th, if I told you it'd be December 11th, I told you be December 11th. The moment Tyson Fury said it was the only a 1% chance of it happening. Suddenly my social media was flooded with,

C. Bunsey, told you it wouldn't happen. you just have to tell the truth. I've been in this business a long time. You and I have just been reading something in my kitchen that I wrote in 1990 about an amateur boxing into the full page editorial in boxing news that also got in the Sunday Times, by the way, only about one paragraph.

I think you paid 37 quid. So I've been in a game a long time. And I'm going to put my hands up now and say, I also have not got a Scooby-Doo what's happening. And anyone that can look me in the face right this second, and say, oh, no, I know exactly what's happening, Bunsey, it's X, Y, Z.

I'm not sure Eddie Hearn knows exactly what's happening. I don't know if Turkey-A-Shake knows what's happening. I don't know if Dana White, Anthony Joshua, Tyson, Fuey, Spencer, Brown, Frank Warren, know exactly what's happening. They may who have plans and visions and dreams, but that's not the same as knowing what's going to happen. No, and I think the fight is just so big, Steve. We just all hope that these things can be ironed out because everyone just wants to see this fight still in boxing. And every boxing fan wants to see AJ versus Fury. The politics of it, yeah, it could spoil the event.

It may not happen. But let's just hope that they get it ironed out and let's get this fight on. Because the British boxing public deserve it, I think. They absolutely do deserve it. I'm just wondering, after such a solid, seemingly inflexible announcement last week, you know, by Netflix and everybody going who-hah, And I, you know, I did Radio 4. That tells you.

When you do Radio 4, you know, it's a big sports story. Yeah, too, right. You know, I did half a dozen hits on Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening. We did a bonus, an extra pod. I tried to get you, but you were fishing in Comunicado, catching carp somewhere. That's right. On an unlucky pond somewhere in the, well, in the Midlands area.

In Shropshire. There we go. A Shropshire carp pond. You were there, Richard. Got Barry Jones instead. It was in between lots of gigs. It was nailed on. It was done and dusted.

No one even dared ask me in those interviews But Steve, could it still fall out of bed now? Because honestly, hand on heart didn't think it could fall out of bed. No, I didn't. I agree. If it does fall out of bed now, I'm not, and I don't, I'm really careful about what I say and how I say it Because, you know, I care very much about the sport

That you and I have both been in for a million, trillion years, Rich. It will not reflect very well on the boxing business. Let's get that absolutely right. And I think that Eddie, in my opinion, Eddie has been part of Match Room now since he was a kid. His father set Match Room up. They've come to dominate Darts. They saw off the opposition.

They've come to dominate Snooker. They saw off the opposition. Barry Hearn had battles with Mickey Duff and Frank Warren for a couple of decades. Eddie himself had a 10-year-long battle with Frank Warren, a constant battle with the Americans. Matchroom are bigger than just this little boxing squabble. Dana White, who's a brilliant businessman, Obviously, you know, it might be a billionaire from his business that he's done with the UFC.

He's basically had to see off rubbish contenders. And if you belong to it, and if you're a massive fan of one of the MMA companies that tried to take the UFC on and you disagree with me, I'll stand to be corrected. But the UFC have squashed every single one of their competitors easily without breaking a sweat. They haven't had to be in the kind of battle that boxing promoters are constantly in. Think about the 30 years that Bob Arrim and Don King battled each other. which battled each other, literally physical, physical at times. That occasion when Don King accosted Bob Aram outside at Caesar's Palace and a gun fell out of Don King's pocket, all documented.

So those guys battled. Eddie Hearn had to battle Frank Warren. Frank Warren had to battle Mickey Duff. Barry Hearn had to battle both Frank Warren and Mickey Duff and Frank Maloney, the upstop. That's what we do in boxing. It's all about competition. And suddenly Dana White getting a bit upset because someone asked him a question at a press conference about, well, are you involved?

with the fight and there was Fing and Jeffing. That's not the way we do it. We operate sometimes on a bigger plane, on a bigger, a bigger level, a higher level. Hand-on heart, do you think it'll happen, Steve? Do you think the fight will take place? I thought all the way through this squabbling

from the 6th of June, up until last Thursday, it was 100% going to happen at some point. Believe it or not, since it's been officially announced in 100 hours ago, I'm now for the first time, thinking it won't happen.

Uncertain. Yeah. Now that it's been announced. And I might be actually coming down on the, not uncertain, I might be coming down on I don't think it's going to happen. I've got a rule. AJ has dug his, dug his heels in and full power to him.

He's signed for a fight under these conditions without this particular person, that person being Dana White. You can't suddenly, when it's all agreed and settled, have someone foisted on you. Jake Paul issue, Jake Paul, I'm a big fan of Jake Paul. People say, I mean, how can he be a fan of Jake Paul?

I'm a fan of Jake Paul, because I know what he does for boxing, especially what he does for women's boxing. Now, him and Eddie Earner been, I think they've been in court. There was millions. I think there was a settlement paid. All very good. We can all get on the business and shake hands. Eddie's got an agreement now with MVP,

where some of his matrim women fight on MVP shows. Jake Paul Public has sent out a social media comment about three or four hours ago. He said, listen, he said, if I sign for a movie and in my contract, I say I'm not going to work with someone. So we say Harvey Weinstein, obviously who's in prison on all sorts of sex charges. I don't want to work with Harvey Weinstein. And suddenly, when I show up on set,

Harvey Weinstein's the producer. But I've got a contract. I'm not going to do the movie. So why should Eddie do the fight? And I tell you, it does make sense. Now, of course, half the gang in the British media was saying, oh, AJ, you're just greedy. Eddie, it's just your ego.

Just take the fight. Well, it's not what the, it's not what the, it's not the contracted fight. he signed for it. I sound like a broken record here, Rich. Yeah, but at the same time, surely, Steve, when a box of signs for a fight, the same contract has got to be signed by his opponent because they've got to agree on everything. Do you know what I mean, Steve? So if one box of signs for a fight and surely for the agreement to go ahead, his opponent has got to sign that same agreement.

No, surely not. Richard, that's what I thought. That's what I naively thought. I just see things black and white need. And that's what I naively thought. Every time you sign for a fight, Contract or no contract, start your career, you're just fighting. Then once you got to bigger fights, Europeans and Commonwealth's and world title fights, your contract and your opponent's contract would have been the same, apart from the fee.

Yes. And apart from maybe travel allowances, okay? But in general, would that be the same thing? Tyson Furious contract was always different. The number one spot, so he says, and so Spencer Brown says, the number one location would have been Ireland, Dublin, Croke Park. AJ's contract called for the fight to be in Great Britain Neither of their contracts called for it to be in America

or had, so we're led to believe, the allowance for it to be in America. They both had a Dana White won't be involved clause. Tyson Fury is claimed he removed that once he gained access to America. Hey-ho, which Dana White was instrumental in doing. Now, you know, you can change contracts, but it does seem mad that they didn't sign the same contract. Rich, as at this point, I mean, my phone could ping in the next three minutes

and I might be told it's definitely on, it's definitely off. Right now, it's definitely in the middle of being on and off. I think that's a fair comment, don't you? Yes, I do, but I would like to think that it will happen. Steve, I think it's such a big fight. It's the biggest fight in British boxing history that it's got to go ahead, to be quite honest. And I think it will hand on my heart. I'm going to be positive and I think it will go ahead.

And, you know, as regards to contracts, yes, you obviously don't agree the same fee as your opponent because that's something that's separate. But as long as you're happy with what you're getting, I never even used to question what my opponents were getting because that's their business with their manager and their promoters. As long as I'm happy with what I'm getting, then why the grass is always greener, so they say.

So why look across? I just used to stick to my own contract and that's how I think it should be. but you know, you're obviously talking about millions and millions of pounds, but it's not just about money. It's about, obviously, where the contest is going to take place. But this business of who's involved in the contest, well, it just goes beyond me. And, yeah, I'm just a plain boxing sort of fan.

And there'll be a lot of people out there that see it from my point of view as well, just playing boxing fans and just say, let's get the fight on. Ritchie, if they meet on Wednesday in London for the press conference, then it looks like they've all. made peace and it's definitely going to happen. I want you to promise me, you're not going to send me a message saying, see, Stevie, sold you it was going to happen. Anyway, we probably haven't made it any clearer to any of you,

and I'm sorry about that, but actually... Go ahead, I reckon you'll go ahead, Steve. Listen, I've got to be absolutely honest with you. The correct answer was, Ritchie, earlier on, I have no idea, or as he said, I have not got a Scooby-Doo. Ritchie, before we talk about the BBC's incredible month coming up in February, in October, rather, February. might be a good month as well.

Coming up in October where we've got three massive nights of boxing on the first, the 17th and the 24th. I want to just reflect quickly on last night's fights. We'll start with Johnny Fisher,

who was on the Zuffer fight. He obviously used to fight for Eddie Hearn, talked to Eddie and said, look, Dana White's made me a great offer. Eddie Hearn said, go ahead and take it. It was apparently whatever, six, seven, eight, nine times,

whatever he was going to get. He won, but it was a hard old 10 rounds against the American Michael Piroton, a really hard old 10 rounds, Rich. Yeah, it was a real hard fight. You can see why, though, he's so attractive to promote us, Johnny Fisher,

because he is really all-action. I still think, you know, that was what he's 16th contest, but he's still learning, Steve, and he was in against a tough opponent, and at times, he's got to learn to manage a contest a little bit better. He probably went for it a little bit too early,

especially... Is that about the fourth or fifth round? Yeah, four, fourth round. He really went for it. It spent himself a little bit too much and didn't get the job done, although he was probably one punch from finishing the contest off.

Then he had to regroup. The other kid comes back into it, and he's on the receiving end at times. But he's such an exciting kid. I like this bit of head movement that he's got now. He's probably sometimes a little bit too low with his head, but he bobs and weaves, and then he launches these shots from that low position.

It was quite noticeable last night. The first fight with Tony Sims, and he looked like he'd, you know, quite a transformative. really. Yeah, exactly. I quite like that. And Tony's trying to work on his strengths and whatever.

But he's a really exciting kid. But like I say, he's got to learn to manage the contest a little bit better. A hard 10-rounder doesn't want too many more of those type of contests. And if you look at the British rankings, it's filled with talents. There were fights there, aren't there? Yeah, massive fights he can win there. And there are fights he can compete in there. And he's probably just off the top 10, isn't he?

And then you're going to get into the bigger league against some real good fighters. But yeah, I liked what I saw yesterday, but there's still a lot of work to be done with Johnny Fisher. And Tony Sims, I think, will be quite pleased to what you saw yesterday. Yeah, I agree. Richie, let's go to Birmingham, to the Pulse, which is the old NEC, BP Pulse,

sort of permanent arena there. Queensbury show that was on Dizone. Top of the bill, Liam Davis, in a European title fight against Nathaniel Collins, obviously up at Feather, Superbantam, we all know it was draining in ridiculously, you only had to see him before. Finished at the end of the seventh round with Davis

with a badly swollen right eye, which he'd had from the... Collins. Yeah, exactly. It was a cut. It was a cut and swelling. Couldn't see out of it. The doctor was called up at the fifth.

He said, let it go. He's smart enough Liam to work on that. He's called... He's called and pulled him out. He caught... They had to pull him out, didn't they had. Yeah, but Steve, this was Liam Davis, for me, was his best performance

and best result against Nathania Collins. who's still really, really decent. I thought Davis boxed really, really well behind his jab. He control things. He's very good at keeping his distance and boxing at his own pace. And I thought he handled Nathaniel Collins

with no real problems. So that for me was a real good win for Liam Davis, the best of his career. And yeah, I think at Featherweight, it's suited him much better. And, you know, 18 and 1 now and he's looking for that world title fight, but that was his best performance.

by far, very good. Yeah, I agree completely. I thought he looked really sharp. And I just happened, Collins looked sharp as well. I thought it was a really good fight. Yeah, it was okay. Now, that was the main event. But, Richie, I'll put it to you,

that it wasn't the main event. The main event was a five-minute intro, entry, rather, ring entrance by Stoke-on-Trence, Nathan Heaney, 37 years of age, and what was always going to be. So he said his last fight. It was a rematch for Jerome Warburton. He lost narrowly, I think it was early this year, and it was really tight.

He could have got it, but he didn't get it. He lost again last night. It was tight enough. It's starting to look a little bit like 37 years of Nathan. But nine-year-ring career, which let me just, he won the British title in 2023, middleweight title, which he should have no right on paper to win that. He beat Denzel Bentley that night. Bentley was on a good run.

And look where Denzel Bentley's gone now. He's now a world middleweight champion. All of those things we love about Nathan. We love the fact that he sells his 2,000 tickets and hands them out one by one individually. We love that he's a man of the people. almost following directly in Ricky Hatton's footsteps. We love all that about him. What we really love about him is he comes out to Delilah by Tom Jones

and who cares who he's fighting. As long as we get to see Naif with that ridiculous moustache in honour of his father who had that ridiculous moustache, singing his heart out. And everyone in the place singing their heart out. I didn't go last night. I was um and an hour all weekend, all day. And even at seven at night I was thinking about going,

I didn't have a night off because it's a busy period coming up. and I regretted instantly not being there for one final Delilah. Yeah, he's giving us some real great nights, hasn't he? But it's the ringwalk. I think Nathan Heaney puts us much into his ringwalk in singing that Delilah song. As he does in the fights. Then literally he does in the fights. But he's been, I mean, let's face it, Steve.

He's overachieved, to be quite honest. And that's no disrespect to him. He knows that. He's been a British champion, and he's given us some great knights. And the atmosphere when he fights has been fantastic. And to be fair, with the tools that he's got and the ability and the talent that he had, yeah, he's done really, really well to be a British champion. And let's face it, when he fought, he had some good fights, didn't he, with, is it, Brad Paul,

in defending his style. I think they were in Birmingham as well. They were great nights. I know he fought two or three times in Telford in my hometown. He brought an absolute army from Stoke, which is only up the road. Coaches and coaches and coaches. Yeah, coaches. And it just makes the night so much better.

the atmosphere, he was absolutely fantastic. I think he was a little bit, looking back at his career, I think he was a touch unlucky in the first Brad Paul fight. I thought he just nicked it. I thought he'd got it, but he got a draw, if you remember. It was a drawn contest. And then he got beat in the second one. He stopped late on, you know, in the second one.

So he's been a little bit unlucky. But for me, Nathan Eaney, he's been fantastic for Midlands boxing, for boxing, obviously, in the Stoke area and what he's done for the Stoke people. He's been a pleasure. and he's a lovely lad, you know, loves his football team, and yeah, I'll miss those nights with Nathan Heaney

because the atmosphere was just absolutely fantastic. Now, after the last Warburton fight, he said that that's it, I'm going to go, but I'm going to have one last night, at St George's Hall in Stoke. One last send-off, he said, and we were in a comedy position, we said, well, I'm going.

Honestly, I don't care if my grandmother's getting married on that night. I'm going. I'm going to be at St. George's Hall. Now, I don't want any fighter to ever come out of retirement, Rich, ever. It's not my game. Once a man says or a woman says, I'm done, I'll let them go. Apart from Nathan Heaney. Apart from Nathan Heaney, I'm going to break my Bunce Cardinal retirement rule and just hope and pray.

Give us one more night in Stoke. He gets a six-rounder in Stoke, right? And we'll all go. And we'll all go, and we have a nine-minute version with a live link-up with Tom Jones in his Las Vegas house of Delilah. With the lyrics, the greatest night of karaoke. You think Katie Taylor's send-off in front of 83,000 was special. St. George's Saw in Stoke. Close your eyes.

Nathan Heaney. Come on, no, no, Naif. Stay retired. I'm only joking. You've got a lovely family. You've got a gorgeous partner. Do your business, Naif. You've been an absolute sensation.

But if he did. Anyway, that's not over here, not here. Your sales order says one thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says, good luck. Odu brings your business together on a single place. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, visit odu.com to book a demo. It's odie whoso.com.

It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, be destroyed. This is world of secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

All right, that was last night. Richie, October is, and you and I have been working together for a long time on and off at the BBC, over 20 years, 22, 23 years. One of our best months for five live. We've got three shows on Saturday at the Utilitas, which is in the city centre, basically it's the old NIA. We've got Ben Whittaker in an eliminator. Then on the 17th we got the heavyweight championship rematch

between Fabio Wardley, challenging Daniel Dubois for the WBO title. They fought back in May in Manchester. Dubois won that in the 11th round. He was over in the first and the third. And then on the 24th, we've got Doughton Smith defending his WBC super lightweight. That's light, like, well to wait in old money, against Alberto Puello.

Now, it'll be a brutal fight. That's not, you know, we know about Homeb, you're meant to get a nice easy touch. No way. This is as brutal and hard, potentially, as it comes. Those are the three fights. We're going to talk about them in a moment, but we're going to start with Doughton.

Which, I tell what we do. We'll start with, I actually went up to Sheff with the talk to Doughton, and I started by asking him about his win against Subria-Mattias in New York at the Barclays Centre on that icy and snowy night back in January of this year.

You don't know how it's going to go. We always have that belief, you know, whether it's point. whether it's inside the distance. I just was confident I was going to get it done. You're never known until you get in there. And you did get it done. And then that feeling, I've been asking fighters

this for 30 years, what's it like when they say, that moment when they say, new, the new world. Look at your smiling. Now, what's that like? Did you close your eyes? Did you, you clutching the bed? What's it like that feeling? It's a special moment, you know, it's a sentence

you've been waiting to hear from a young age. You dream it, you envision it. So to hear it for itself. Dancing in front of a mirror as a kid. Exactly, that shadow boxing, you know, with the paper belts over. Making belts, yeah, yeah. Making the belts and then you get it for real. But yeah, it's a special moment, but, you know, boxing don't allow you to enjoy it for too long

because there's always what's next. So that was then, so long ago, it almost feels like it was last year. It was certainly several seasons ago. And then there was, well, bad luck really, just bad luck. This fights on, this fights on, this fights on. Then it falls out of bed, falls out of bed, falls out. We're finally on for October. Not ideal, but at least it's the same guy in the opposite corner in Puella,

who's, in my opinion, on paper, I think he's harder than Mateus, even though he beat, we were in New York last summer when he won, but it was a brutal fight. This is a hard fight. For me, I think if you look on paper, the Mateo's fight was a much harder fight. You know, the completely different fights, you know, stylistically wise, completely different. Two different men, aren't they? Two different men.

You know, and he's there for a reason. Two-town World Champion is one hell of a fighter, but, you know, people rip me off in a Mateo's fight. I proved them wrong, and this is just another opportunity for me to prove to the boxing world. Who Dalton Smith is? I mean, those two, if you, you know, you beat Puella and you have Matthias in one year,

those are two proper quality wins. Let's get it right. You know, a lot of people are in our business get given easier touches, and you could be excused for not having it. It's a homecoming in theory with a belt. You could have, you know, I know that you had to fight him, but there's always ways to get around that.

You've gone, you haven't taken an easy route, Dalton. I've never done it the easy way. I've never done it the easy way. But look, if you're a good fighter, you'll shine. Yeah. And boxing, you can't beat around the bushing boxing. If you want to be the best, you've got to fight the best. Do you feel at that stage now at your age?

You're not a 22-year-old kid with seven or eight fights now. You're there. You're a fully grown man. You've gone out to New York in a really hard fight and boxed brilliantly and defended the title. You're in a really hard fight here. You're box brilliantly to defend the title. You're ready, aren't?

You're absolutely ready. There's no stepping stones, easy homecomings, nothing. Of course. You know, there's no easy stepping stones. You know, from the start, I've done it, the traditional room. English, British, Commonwealth, European world. You know, I passed every test, and for me, this is another test. Yeah.

And one, I feel like I'm going to come through with flying colours, and it's going to be... They always say, once you win a world title, you go up another 50%. Yeah. And I really feel that, you know... Have you sensed that in your preparation? Yeah, and I think you carry yourself a little bit different. You know, not in an egotistical way, but you've kind of got that chip on your shoulder to go and prove more.

The cancellation's giving you a little bit of extra edge as well, the fact that, you know, back in March, April, everyone was buzzing, talking about you. And now we're in this situation now where it's a lot of months later, you know, it's probably five months after we thought we'd first get it. Exactly. And it was the same for the Matea's fight. Yes, that was on and off. It looked like it was gone. Yeah, they've looked like it was gone, obviously, with a failed drug test. You know, people forget, I've also got another man who had failed drug test,

been banned from the sport from it. So, like I said, I'll go through all these guys first. I'll be a good role model for boxing, for clean sports, and I'll get through all these, and yeah, just keep on going through them. I just think, though, it's been about seven or eight months since I'm going to ask you, anyone's asked you this question, you're in the inevitable question, everyone asks you. So when are you going to fire them a museum? Forget Adam is in

We asked that question for two years Didn't we? Exactly, people ask it But listen, the guy who I've got in front of me He's levels and levels above Adam is in You know, commercially that's a big fight Adam's like you say, he's getting there He's not proving himself with his opposition

You know, I'm a real fighter I fight real fighters And you'll see that on October the 24th And of course, when you're going on the road We're talking about being early January and it's cold You're in a foreign land, not too foreign When everyone speaks English, and I'm sure you'd been in New York before. But this is a homecoming, even though it's not a homecoming fight, it's a proper fight.

It's nice to be home, isn't it? It's nice to be home. A walk from your gym. Do you know what it is? The away trip was good. You know, went over there, took the belt. But for me, now it's to put on a show for my supporters who couldn't get there. And it's going to be loud.

The atmosphere is going to be noiser. And, you know, for me, this is bringing big-time boxing back to Sheffield. The likes of what Ricky Hatton did in Manchester. You know what, Prince Naze, did for Sheffield. You know, I want to keep that torch burning, you know, the atmospheres, the flaming. The flaming, the big fan base. And, you know, I'm hoping it's going to be a sellout on October the 24th and it's going

to be noisy in there. So, Richie, Doughton Smith there, relaxed and confident. It's been a couple of hiccups. I think this is the third date he's had different reasons why the fight never took place. That's the way it's. It's been an odd year for that Galois FI has had two world title fights fall out of bed. And in fact, he replaced Dorton on one particular show in Sheffield that did

fall out of bed. Puello is hard, Richard. You know, he's a hard man in the flesh. You know what I mean by that? He looks like a hard man. Yeah, I was watching him a couple of nights ago, actually. I wanted to see him against Miguel Angale Bolano. That was his last contest.

That he stopped him in the fourth round. He's a fairly flat-footed Southport, Steve, but he's decent, and he's got a real decent left-up accut as well. So, Dalton's got to be careful of that. But I think Dalton will probably have a little bit too much speed, and too much flare. The one thing Dalton has got to watch out for is he can't afford to slow the pace down to Puello's pace because if he does that, yeah, he's decent with his jab, but he likes his opponents.

You can see Puello likes his opponents to stand in front and he doesn't like the movement of the opponent. So if Dalton's in and out with the feet and just plays it tricky in terms of his footwork, I think he'll beat him. And I think he'll beat him fairly comfortably as long as he doesn't stand and, you're trade. If you stand and trade against this Puello, he's fairly strong. He doubles

up his jab and backs you up to the ropes. Then he switches his attacks downstairs, but he's got a really good left uppercut. And against Baleno, this tough Colombian he had in front of him, we know what the Colombians are all about, tough kids, stand and trade, but he comes unstuck.

So Puello is very good if the opponent's in front of him. Movement, I think he'll have problems with Dalton. And that's how I'd go about boxing this kid. Unless Porella can slow Doughton down in a couple of rounds with body punches, but I don't think he's going to land that many in the first couple of hours, then you can't see Doughton slowing down and fighting to his level. However, one thing you've got to remember here,

Dawton's been out of the ring since January, and they want to impress his hometown fans. That's the only problem. Sometimes that can get, you know, Richard, you're the king of Telford, but you battled in two people. You were battling the crowd and the opponent. Because you wanted to impress. I know, I know, I was there.

If you want to impress and, you know, and you want to take your opponents on and please your home crowd, This is an opponent that that type of style could backfire here because that's what Puello likes. Puello likes people just to stand in front of him and to trade, like I say, decent jab, very low lead hand, very good left upper cut if the opponent's coming low. But he needs the opponent to be static

and that's why Dalton's got to hit and move. Box to his strength because Dalton's speed is a very skillful boxer. I remember him up in GB, Steve. He's a very skillful. boxer indeed and if you can bring those skills, you'll need those skills against this opponent and yes he's got to please

his crowd, he's on a home saw, you know, we know all that but he can't afford to box his opponent's fight here because this kid's quite strong. Yeah. So we have more on daughters we come towards that. That's on the 24th in Sheffield. Our ticket's still available. We'll have that live on

BBC 5 live and BBC sounds now next weekend Rich. No, as I tell what we do, we'll do Fabio Wardley first. Yeah. The rematch Simple to make, unbelievable fight back in Manchester, the co-op back in May. Incredible fight. Maybe the fight of the year, although it's been a good year for that, despite what people keep telling you,

if you keep on seeing our boxing's in the doldrums and it's been the worst year, just have a look. Nothing says that, apart from people that sit at home and never go to fight. Anyone that's in a boxing gym, anyone that goes to boxing, anyone that works in the boxing business genuinely, how can you look back on 2026 when we've been outdoors, giant fights outdoors. When we were about to go outdoors again,

when we've been indoors at the O2 or the co-op with 18, 19,000, 5 or 6 or 7 times. It's been brilliant. When we've had unbelievable fights. So we started the year with Doughton Smith going against the odds and knocking out Matias in, in New York in the ghost, the guy's home patch.

It's been a sensational year. I know neither here, not here. So we got to rematch Ward Lee and Dubois, Rich. First time round, I wasn't sure who I fancied. I think I fancied Wardley, just a bit. Going into this. Going into this,

I know Daniel Dubois stopped him in the 11th last time and came back after the dreadful first and third round. I'm not sure if I fancy Dubois this time or Wardley this time.

I'll know a little bit more hopefully in the week of the fight. I'll get a sense. Because right now, crazily, I might be fancy it Wardley again. That's a great point, Steve. I will say this.

I think that I don't think Wardley is going to outbox Daniel over 12. I think if he's going to get a victory against Daniel, he's got to do it early. I think he's got to do inside four or five rounds. He didn't jump on him in the first or the second or third. Now, the thing is

he had a couple of opportunities obviously very early on in the last contest where he could have finished Daniel off. That's what I'm saying. But he didn't and Daniel got through it and Daniel put in an absolutely fantastic performance and wins the fight. But I know personally

that I saw, say, I think that I know that with Wardley, he'll be thinking, I'll have those opportunities again early on, and this time I'm going to finish him off. Because I think that's his only chance of victory here, and it's a slim chance, but I think he'll know that he'll get the opportunity again, he'll catch him early, but this time he has got to finish him off to get the victory. If he goes over five rounds, my money then swings to Daniel again, because I think Daniel eight box him. And the other thing is, Steve, what Wardle has got to avoid more than anything is just the point.

plain, simple, jab. He's got to take the jab away from Daniel. You've got to sort that out. Because if, like I say, if it goes over five rounds and Daniel gets into that rhythm again, he's just popping in with that jab, then it'll be a repeat performance again. Just think, when that fight's over,

they would have thought in front of about 39,000 people, one in Manchester, one in London, both for the World Heavyweight title, something that we had to wait a million, trillion years for. Brits fighting for the World Heavyweight title in Great Britain. Britain was real enough.

Two Brits fighting each other. That was like rocking horse manure, as you used to say, Richie Boy. So it would be a sensation. I think it'll be a sensation. It'll be one round and whether it ends in the 11th. Let's just briefly chat about next Saturday. Rich will be doing a pod later in the week? Ben Whittaker against Connor Wallace at the Utilitas.

That's the old NIA. That's actually in Broad Street in Middle of Birmingham. Ben, obviously, a fighter that's close to your heart and a fighter that I like and admire an awful lot. and the one that I think is capturing the imagination because this is not a world title fight, this is not a British title of fight, and yet it is going to be on Five Live,

and deservedly so. It's a commitment. When he was on the GB squad, obviously for his Olympic cycle, Tokyo 2020, for me, he was, along with Pat McCormack, he was probably the most talented boxer on the program,

very talented indeed. And when this fight was made, Steve, I looked up Connor Wallace, so I didn't really know him. I know he was born in Northern Ireland, and he's gone over to cross. Australia, 17 and 1.

Then I looked at the calibre of opposition that he's fought. Then I looked at him on YouTube, looked at a few of his fights. He's absolutely tailor-made for Ben Whitaker.

He's a right-handed Southpour, Steve. His feet come square too many times. He's got a great lead hand, his right-hand. But like I say, he's a right-handed Southpour.

There's not a lot of power in his left hand. Ben moves to his right. He can play all day off. Yeah, and his feet keep coming square because that shows that's a sign that he's obviously. But on paper,

perfectly good opponent. He's a perfectly good opponent. He's fairly strong, but he's absolutely tailor-made. He's the type of opponent that Ben can look a million dollars against. And that's the job on Saturday. It's not just to wear down Connor Wallace in six or seven or eight rounds. It's to look good. It's to look good. Because that's what we're building here. And this is what, this is the old-fashioned art of promoting when a promoter works alongside a television company or works alongside a radio channel, in this case, Five Live, to promote and build that fighter so that one day after four or five fights leading towards it one day we are in the deep end in a world title fight because you know but everybody and not and I'm not I'm not

I'm not being critical of my bosses but we all need to realize we need to develop talent and not just cherry pick and seize on it sees on it and upon it once it's established that's enough of the political stuff yeah so that would be um ben Whittaker on Saturday the third you should He should look good. Perfect opponent for him to box against. Two look good. And, yeah, and, you know, I mean, enjoying Ben Whittaker's story because he's becoming a bit of a Marmite character, isn't he?

A lot of people don't like him. Lots of people do, but trust me, Steve, he's one the most talented boxers that's in the game today, Ben Wittaker. And one of the nicest fellas. Yeah, he's a great. He's okay. Don't tell anyone that, because that's not his image, isn't it? No, of course it's not.

He's a great guy. Honestly, he's playing too. And I think he was born in West Bromwich, actually. Oh, no, definitely. In fact, everyone was born in the house next door, and Joe Frazier's, and George Foreman would live just down the road in Solly Hole. Anyway, neither hearing on it. Richie, before we go, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you for an update on the European Amateur Championships.

Finished just a couple of days ago. Three finalists, five medals in total. Just give me a quick run through, and including your DeMar Thomas observations. In terms of GB boxes, we've got five medals. We had three silvers and two bronze. And I think, Steve, when you look at the overall medal, table, although we come in at ninth place, if you look at Azerbaijan, Azerbaijan had the same amount of medals as us. They had five medals and they came in in third place, but they had a couple

of goals. And three of those finals could have gone either way. Some of them were tight. Demar Thomas boxed really well at Super Heavy. 21 still, Demand is still Demandah. Still, 21. He gets beat by a Russian fighter. Who's a pro, isn't he? Three two split. Who's names David Sorov, Steve, and his boxers a pro. In fact, we had two or three boxers. Abdul Burton at 55K. He got beat in the final against another Russian. Vashev Ragozin, who again

is a professional. And even DiMiji Shitu at Light Heavy, he got a bronze, but he gets beat against a Russian who's boxers a pro over eight rounds. So these are professional boxes, boxing as amateurs. Listen, the Russians have got great amateur boxers,

but we're up against it. And there were final, Steve. And, you know, like I say, Damars was a three-teous. And who else got medals? Who else got medals? Chantel Reed. She fought against Buzennas as... Turkmenial.

Semenli. Yeah. From Turkey. Yes. And she is the IBA current world champion at 66K. Again connected to the Russians. Again, yeah. And against the close, close fight, but Chantel was just edged out.

Nothing wrong with that. And she got a silver medal. And also, obviously, we had a... another bronze medalist, which was Callum-Macon, down at 75K. So we've had it, from England and a G.B. Point of view, five medals were more than satisfied because we've had a busy year with the Commonwealth Games.

All those boxes are involved there. So we've had a great... And the world's only last September in Liverpool. So basically, DeMar Thomas at 21, has got a Commonwealth Games gold. He's got a European silver and he's got a world bronze. That's not bad going. At 21 years of age?

And at 21, I remember... AJ back in 2011 in Azerbaijan. He gets beat against Majadov, Yazabajan boxer. He gets beat in a real close final, Steve, and gets a silver. He was only 21. Next year he goes on and wins Olympic gold. So you see Demar Thomas in a similar light to AJ.

So what's happening here, Rich, if you don't mind me saying so, and I think the world's last year were brilliant. The Commonwealths are always good, even though people were critical of it. And then with these Euros, we're getting next year's the Olympic Qualifference. in the year. It starts next year, if I'm not mistaken. There will be 2028 qualifies, but you can

qualify in 2027. In addition to the five names you've mentioned there and a couple of others that got beat, a little Ruby White, who's still only 19, who got a silver at the Commonwealth. She came out of brilliant. Amy Broadhurst, the brilliant, you know, she's commuting with her baby from Dublin to Sheffield,

a former world, former European champion. She's just narrowly missed the medals, and there's about five or six others. So basically, quietly, a really strong team's developing for that LA push, 2028. Absolutely, Steve. Really strong team.

To get five medals in the Euros, you've got the Russians there and some really hard, difficult countries to box against. We've done really, really well. And with the Olympic qualifies coming next year, yeah, we're in a good place. It's a young team. It's fairly inexperienced,

but we're getting that experience as we go along in these tournaments. And we're in good shape, Steve. And going into those Olympic players, qualifies next year, yes. We're in a strong position quietly. Yeah, we like a strong position quietly. So, Richard Woodall may not have had a scooby-do about AJ and Fury, but he knows an awful lot about the amateur position as we go forwards to the Olympics. In fact, none of us really have got a Scooby-Doo. We don't really know what's happening with AJ and Fury. We can all come

up with our guesses. We could all come up with our, I told you so, when X, Y, and Z does happen. What we do, though, is that Eddie Hearn and AJ are sticking to their guns, sticking. to their contracts. Dana Whitewell, there's not a lot of shifting with him, despite a suggestion that it'll just be assisting on a personal level, Turkey Alishay. He's saying, no, that's weird. I'm going to be involved, hinting that he is the promoter.

Well, if he's the promoter, it looks like there'll be no fight. It's politics, it's fun, but you know what? Kind of might just be hurting the image of boxing, giving the big feature writers and one or two commentators on radio and TV, an easy pot shot at our business, okay? It's a busy business. It's not all good. In fact, sometimes it's absolutely dreadful

and frustrating and infuriating to cover. But when you're there at ringside and it's happening, it's a special event. He was Richie Woodall. I've been Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live boxing.

I'm Steve Bracknell, assistant manager of Sunday League Powerhouses, the Royal Oak FC. And I'm back in changing room at Royal Oak for a new season of Games Gone the podcast that takes you back to the grassroots of the game with my colleague Paul Sampson and Bob the Bucky

and this season we're aiming for promotion to Division D of the Sheffield Sunday Imperial League. Games Gone, the Steve Bracknell podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else.

And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.