5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Itauma v Hrgovic: History Beckons

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Will Moses Itauma make history and become the second-youngest heavyweight to win a world title? Buncey sits down with the 21-year-old to find out whether making history means anything to him. We also hear from his opponent, Filip Hrgovic, who is yet to be convinced Itauma is the next big thing. Plus, Queensberry’s George Warren joins the pod, along with Itauma’s trainer Ben Davison.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire, and You're Dead to Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. This is Five Live Boxing. On Saturday night at the O2 in London, Moses Itama will try and become the second youngest heavyweight champion in history

when he fights the Dalit of all Croatia, Philip Hergevich. Moses is only 21 years of age. 20,000 people will be there. And he's completed less than 20 rounds as a professional. This is history. This is a star in the making. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Box. So one of the things I like about press comments is especially for world title fights.

Sometimes there's about 70 people on the dais and it's Don King in charge of it. Other times we recreated under the Tower of London once. This is a bit different. We're in a genuine old rave centre, right down by the river, well out of touch. The police could never get here. They only had one road in and they used to block it. This was a genuine, 35 years ago, a genuine, I'm not going to ask my next guest if he ever came here,

because that would mean he came here when he was about 10 or 12 years of age, which he might have done, but I'm not sure about that. I'm here with George Wong. George, before we go any further, your dad's not here. I've seen a picture of something on his foot. Is he okay? Yeah, he's fine, like, health's absolutely fine, no problems. He's just immobile.

Unfortunately, I think it was on Sunday evening, sitting outside, enjoying a bit of the sunshine, and he's got some type of infection, bite that's happened on his foot. Which means that he can't put even a pair of shoes on, let alone a pair of flip-flops. So, you know, I'm here today. You're here today. George, and you've also been here the whole time with Moses Itama,

and you were here before Moses termed professional, all those stories about him sparring as a school. What were your impressions of him when you first came into contact of him when he was 15 or 16? Because we're now just a few hours away from him fighting for the vacant IBF world title against the big and experience. They're very good looking, Philip Hergavit. But what are your experience is first to Moses?

So the thing that stood out for me more than anything was the speed. Yeah. You know, you're watching him. He's got great boxing IQ, very sensible the way that he puts his shots together, the selection of shots, but the defence as well. And that comes with the speed. Yeah.

Fast hands, you know, watched him. I was lucky enough to see a bit of sparring footage that had happened, and you're just sitting there in all and going, this isn't right, he can't be 50. This isn't a 15 year old. This isn't a 16 year. It's like against the Coley or someone like that. I mean, I won't name the guys.

But season guys. But season, proper heavyweights. And, you know, you hear things on the circuit, as we all do. They're all singing his praises, telling us about this young fighter. We obviously had the relationship already with Carol, his older brother, who was a former fighter with us as well. And for us, it was like, right, we're in. We've got to make this happen. So he did what he did in the Europeans and the worlds, you know, went through them on.

We're still wearing a headguard. That's the great. thing, you remember that? Correct. But like he went through these guys like a hot knife through butter, just, you know, steamrolled them, they couldn't live with him. And again, for me, it's speed. I love fast fighters and, you know, they're exciting, but the speed allows them to do things

that a lot of heavyweights can't do. So it was always for me going to be an exciting journey. I'm surprised we've got here as quick as we have. Moses will say that he could have done it quicker, but we're hoping on Saturday night, we've gotten a timing right. But sensible George thinks we could have done it. it with a little bit more. Yeah, I mean, like when this wasn't

a world heavyweight title fight, I thought it was a, I still thought it was an early fight when it wasn't a world heavyweight title fight. That's not a criticism, that's just an observation. Listen, I mean, so we don't make fights for our guys that we don't like. And I should say, look, Phillips also Queensbury heavyweight. He's with us.

He wants to come and do what he wants to do and win the title and change his life. But let's get it right. Moses is a potential superstar. So, we spent a lot time with him over the last 12 months on like, who do you want to fight? And the name Philip Hergevich kept coming up. That was one that they really liked. They loved the idea of a fight. So when we could get it and when we could contract with Philip on the basis of the Dave Allen

fight and have options to make the Moses fight, we went to Moses and asked him again, asked Ben, asked Francis, and they went, yeah, that's the fight. The added bonus, the cherry on top now is it for the title. Well, fun enough, George, I called up with Moses earlier this week. And I started by asking him, does it change anything now that it's been upgraded to a full world title fight? Not really. Like, I still have the same amount of ambition, still the same amount of hunger

than I did before the fight got announced for a world title. So, nowadays, for a world title, I still want to beat him. I still, I'm hungry. Do I mean? So... And all sorts of funny records. So you lose to NAS by about 13 or 14 days. He's slightly younger.

But you would become the second youngest heavyweight in history. You beat Floyd Patterson, but Mike Tyson still be older. So that's a history books. Yeah, it is, but it's not something I'm focusing on. Because at the end of the day, like, you don't try to achieve the accolades. You try to achieve the goal you achieve. And hopefully, they'll break some accolades. Like, I'm not trying to beat Hergovich because it's for a world title.

I'm trying to beat Hergovich. and then that leads to a world title. Does that make sense? It's part of a journey. Yeah, so I'm not thinking about the world title itself, but the man who's got it, because before this fight was for a world title, me and Philip Harkovic, we agreed to fight.

And then Frank called me up into the office like two or three weeks into camp, and he was like, oh, we've got this other routes that can get you to a world title. And I was like, I had no boxing. There was a period of time where I said, I'm going to push this one to the side and then that scenario didn't play how I wanted to

so then we was like, we push this one to the side and next thing you know, I didn't box for eight months. So I said, I'm going to focus on something that's solid and that is Philip Harkovitch. So I said, nah, we're just going to fight Philip Hulovich, next thing you know, two weeks later, that's for a world title. Because boxing's like that, you can be dangled something,

you can be promised something, you can think it's yours and then it just vanishes. So you could have gone down waiting for a WBO, waiting for WBA, wait for WBA, wait for WBC. But this was solid. IBF, Hergovich was solid. Exactly.

So I was like, I'm going to go with this and the next thing, you know, two weeks later. That's for a world title. So I feel like the just beautiful thing about boxing, just sometimes just need to sit back on weight. You know, there's so many scenarios where Dave Adams been writ off. Then he come back.

Then he's been writ off. They come back. Then he's writ off. Same with a good example as MacMoodov. Just writ off. Then he came back. Then writ off. and like that's that's just like sometimes you just got away

like I had the head of Mac Medov I've just retired after was it Cabell he lost him yeah cabal he bashed him up yeah he looked like he looked like he ruined him to get what I'm saying next thing you know beats Dave Allen it's a fight's Tyson Fury you know I'm saying 68,000 people so I'm saying so it's like um it's sometimes just in boxing you just might have to just wait for an opportunity just need to be patient exactly good things will come your way

Exactly. Do you feel like you're being patient? Do you feel like you could have waited another year? Let's say this didn't get upgraded and then there was the shenanigans and then suddenly it's May next year. Would you have started to become a little bit impatient at not getting a world title fight, do you think? No. Because you know the way the business works?

No, I think I'll just have, obviously I'm a big believer in Christ. and I believe that if God wanted to teach me patience he ain't going to give me patience he's going to give me obstacles to teach me how to be patient so I wanted to win a world title before Mike Tyson did it yeah of course God taught me to be patient

so had this fight not been for a world title I think I learnt my lesson because when I was boxing when I first time I'm professional and I wanted to box for that world title, even though I knew it wasn't possible, I was still fighting and training as if I'm going to get that opportunity. And it might sound like that was good, but it proper backfired of me.

I got in a really hate-hate relationship with boxing. Because you weren't getting what you thought you were going to get? Exactly. I got in a hate-a-hate relationship. I started declining. I started getting frustrated. There's a lot of things that's like wasn't going well. And I can now step back and say, maybe that was a good time that didn't happen because I guess the Lord was trying to teach me

how to be patient. And that patience has paid off. Exactly. Because this has been upgraded. It's a proper world title fight. Proper venue. And proper opponent in Big Philip. I know you and you and him have your back and forwards,

but he's a big, he's a big, likeable guy. Lackable. Not likeable to me. He's a character. I like characters. He's a character. Yeah, he's all right. He's a...

You don't have to be a good. Let you love for him. Don't worry, brother. No, he's all right, isn't it? Like, he's, he is what he is, isn't it? Yeah, he is what he is. I guess to the fans, yeah, I guess he's a bit of an interest in. Everybody I've heard it like four or five times today, that he looks like a James Bond villain.

Yeah, nothing with that. I tell you what I have enjoyed the last couple of days. Your picture on London buses. Don't have you seen one yet? Yeah, I've seen them. It's good, man. I've seen them everywhere, man. Moses Atama on the side of a bus, brother.

Yeah, I got called a bus boy the other day. This is where it is, I'm a, that's not for me, you know. That's not really you. Yeah, that's, I know that. That's for, that's to advertise the fact. It works. Yeah, that's not for me to see, you know. Yeah.

Now, the reason why I mentioned NAS a bit earlier on is that I know that you, as growing up, you liked Nas, didn't you? He appealed to you. What was it that appealed to you about Nasim-Mahmed? I just like his flirt. I like his confidence. I like that he's, you. used to say what he was going to do and he did it.

But that isn't you either, is it? That's the kind of bizarre thing. But just because I like that in somebody else doesn't mean I have to be that as well. I just, I never wanted to copy to be in Nassim Hamid because Nassim Hamid was his own man. Moses Talmar is his own man. So I'm slowly getting to where I want to be and like all this stuff is still new to me. Like, although I've been boxing since I was nine. Yeah.

Being in the public eye or doing interviews or doing these certain things, I've only just recently started doing this. It's only three years ago. So I'm still coping with this. The demands. Exactly. The demands of being Moses of Tama. Exactly.

They will increase when you become Moses of Tama World Heavyweight Champion. Exactly. Which you know that. You're going to have to take really special secret breaks. Do those breaks where no one knows where you are. Do Lennox Lewis breaks. But no one knew where on planet Earth Lennox was. I mean, that is, yeah, like, I'm, I was even saying to my brother yesterday,

I was like, I was like, I wonder what I'm going to be doing between camps because I can't be spending them in the UK. No, you can't. Because you just can't really do much. Like, if I just walk outside my house, I'm just going to have to take photos. And that. So it's like, obviously, there's a, there's an element of time where I get jealous of people that might work 9 to 5 because they know when that 5pm strikes,

that work stops. But with being a boxer, although your boxing is the work, you come out of that boxing gym and that don't stop. That's still going on and on, no, no, no, no. You've seen that here with kids that have been camping out all day,

six hours waiting for you, signing autographs, taking pictures. It's constant. Constant's true, isn't it? And it's, I guess, you have to take up a sort of role model role where I never asked for it, but...

You've got it? I have it, yeah. And you just got to find somewhere secret to vanish to. Secret retreat. Don't tell me. Just keep a secret retreat. Ah, I wasn't going to tell you anyway. Just in case.

Yeah. Listen, Moses, pleasure to talk to you. It's always good to talk to you. Appreciate it. Enjoy yourself Saturday. I'll see you there. Enjoy yourself, yeah. Well, you're not.

You can't enjoy your fight, man. So Moses there, George, that's another thing that maybe struck me when I first met him all the years ago when he made his debut back in the early BT days, was just how calm he was. and it wasn't fake calm, it wasn't laid back calm. It's just this guy's calm. Yeah, he's got an aura, you know, for me.

And they don't come around that often, do they? Like, you know, you've been in this sport a lot longer than I have, Steve. I've been, you know, I've been working in it since 2010. For me, for the age that he is, he's the most composed, calm, relaxed individual. A lot of pressure on his shoulders, a lot of expectations, not just from us, from the boxing fans, from his family, from his team. Everyone around him is expecting things. And he just seems to be so relaxed.

I've seen him this week again. He's always got a smile on his face. And as you say, composed and nice and relaxed. There is a lot of pressure on his shoulders. And I was talking to your brother, Francis, who, of course, manages him and is much closer to Moses than most of us. And he said, I'm looking, I'm looking for science. I'm seeing if there's anything that worries me.

And I've been asking your dad that same question for the last 30 years. especially when he's been in a dressing room on the night of a big fight, and I've said, and he changed, how does Nas look, how does Kowzaki look, how does whoever look? And it's always a tell-tale sign. And sometimes he says, well, he looks a bit different. But everything seems to be with this kid, Moses, that this is just, I hate this cliche, but another day at the office, which, of course, it isn't, but it is to him.

Yeah, I mean, you're right. I mean, there's little things that can trip you up as well. You know, he's mentioned it himself, Moses. It's the first fight week for him in and around this time. You know, so he's obviously been on the O2 before and for him. but where he's kind of the main event, the other ones. The centre. They've been in Manchester.

They've been in other places. Saudi. Exactly. So with that, you know, you get the team element. You're at the hotel. You get away. More people know you. Exactly.

He's going home. You know, so it's not like, so for me, it was always going to be interested to see if that trips a month. It seems quite happy. Yeah. And, you know, for me, it's just a pleasure to see someone that it's just, he just seems so like this is, this is, this is just like. inevitable.

Yeah, it meant to be. Exactly. And that's for Big Philip. I've been a big fan of Big Philip for a long time, 10 and 12 years. I like him. I like the kind of, you know, he takes the Mickey out of himself with the good looks and what I thought. And I quite like it.

But he can also fight. We must have to remember, there's only the one loss. And that was in a bloody, brutal fight against Daniel Dubois. And what he's said about Moses, George, I'm not sure if you've heard it, is that he might be as good as everyone says. But we don't know yet. If he beats me easy, then he's as good as everyone says. I think that's a fair assessment by Big Phil.

No, I agree. And, you know, I'm just saying, to some of the other interviews. I like the idea that this is an exclusive, George. Thanks for giving that away. Thanks, son. You've just told me like a kipper there. I put, you know, when we were resigning, Philip and made this one of the fight options

that we wanted, obviously, in his contract, when it came to putting it in, you know, his manager Keith Collins, he's doing the right thing for him. You know, we don't want that fight, we want this fight, trying to push it. And I said, look, this is one of the options that we want to get to the numbers

and the type of thing that you want. Yeah, of course. You know, we need a structure that works for us as a business as well. And what it ended up coming down to, and I'll never forget what Philip said is, is he said, for me, this isn't a problem, because I would rather get him at the right time for me than the right time for him. And I think this is my time.

That's a really good line. So he's, you know, he's confident. He's here to win. This isn't Joshua Martin. Yeah, absolutely. You know, for me, Moses's Martin fight was his last fight against Jermaine Franklin. That's a perfect analogy, by the way. This is the fight that's going to say, wow, we have got a serious.

not just heavyweight world champion, a future pound-for-pound superstar of the sport. And one of the things, of course, with Big Philip, is he's been around an awful long time. And when I grabbed hold of him and had a chat of him, by the way, he was in very good form, bare-chested, looking stunning in the sunshine, I said to him,

it's been a very long wait to finally get that world title shot. 20 years, man. 20 years of dreaming? Sometime. Some time. It was... Some time and yeah, now I'm here, ready, feeling great and we'll see what's going to happen.

Can you remember where you were, whether you had started boxing or if you just won a tournament when you fought to yourself, one day I can be a heavyweight champion. Can you remember when it was? Was there a specific time? When I was kid, when I was growing up and boxing, I always believe in myself and I always. believe I can achieve great things and my biggest dream was to be Olympic champion you know and I was dreaming about that and but I always believed I can achieve great things I know I had that belief in myself since beginning can you allow yourself to dream and think past Saturday night and think about fights down the line or is it just Moses Itama, just the O2, just Saturday night.

Yeah, of course, I'm thinking of this fight, but also I'm imagining to becoming world champion and what's next, you know, go for unification or, you know, mandatory defense. But, you know, a lot of options. Now the division is opened again after many, many years. a lot of different options for myself if I become champion. So would it be something that motivates you to become the undisputed, to become the next undisputed,

to fight? Because you know, you've got many two or three good years left in you, maybe more. Is it something do you want to do to unify all of the belts? Of course. Of course if I'll become champion, that will be next thing to become. I mean if I beat this guy on Saturday then, you know, know, sky's a limit. I'll become new star and I'll be coming, I'll consider myself the best fighter on the world. And I think I'll unify the belts. Yeah.

With regards to those belts, is there any one particular champion you'd like to fight? Would you like a rematch with Daniel Du Bois? Is that something you would like? Of course. That'll be the fight I would like the most. And between you and that is Moses Itama, 21. And when you spoke to me in this hotel maybe two months ago, you said, we don't know, we don't know how good he is.

We will find out how good he is. Yeah, I'm curious as well, you know, how I'm gonna, how this fight will start, will go because, you know, he got a lot of speed and, you know, he's young and fresh. And I just, I just don't know, you know, know, how he will take my punches, how I will take his punches and deal with that speed. But, you know, a lot of unknown things in the air. And that's really strange because generally if you're a top amateur and a top professional,

you know your opponents, you know what they bring to the ring. Obviously, it can be different once the bell sounds, but you know a lot about them. Yeah, in my 20-year career, you know, I always... I never felt that I don't have solution for someone that I feel something new, something different. So I always was feeling good in the ring, in the fights and in the sparring. I always felt good, you know. I always felt I have control.

So let's see what this new Mike Tyson or new Muhammad Ali will show, you know. So that's Hulgevich there. And I've got to tell you, he was more relaxed this week than he was six weeks or five weeks ago when we first announced the fight George, which I'm pleased at. Yeah, he's here. I mean, I think for him, he's here to win.

That's it. Again, sat down with him when we extended, he said, I want you to be able to deliver me a world title flight. That's why I'm re-signing with Queensbury. So I feel like we've given him the opportunity. And a platform. And we've given him that platform, and we've given Moses the opportunity.

Look, may the best man win. I know that the 20,000 people on Saturday night are going to be cheering. room for Moses. But yeah, let's see. And he's dealing with that, Moses, getting back to Moses, he's sort of dealing with that degree of fame.

Like he's seen himself on the buses. You know, he's on the London buses and different parts of the capital. He's seen that. And he's not a sort of an evusive character, you know, like jumping all over place. But inside, you could tell he's like really excited about that.

Have you seen the bus? Have you seen the bus? He's kind of happy about that. Yeah, it's great. He's still a baby, George. Absolutely. He's 21, and you forget it. You know, you forget the age of him.

You forget that kind of, you know, the naivity of what comes with what he's capable of. You know, he doesn't seem like someone that's fame-hungry. He doesn't seem to be wanting to chase that. But I think the inevitability of where he can go in this sport, he knows he's going to come with it.

But, you know, nice surprises for him. Being on the back of the bus, why not? Why not? And George, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask you a simple question and I'm going to hold you so you don't run away. Any update on AJ and Fury? I mean, there's a million people offering a million things, but you're as close to the centre of it

as about four or five other people. or anything, any suggestion of when something might happen? No, I think it's going to have to happen soon if everyone's going to work towards the same date that everyone is trying to get to. There's still stuff that's got to be worked out in contracts. There's still got to be a lot of two and and thrown and a bit of negotiations by and scene,

but this is boxing. We're all used to it. We've all been here 100 times before. I'm like everyone in this country, I think even around the world. I just want to see it happen. And I hope it happens, and I'll wait for the announcement just like everyone.

And one other thing, George, before I let you go, I know you're a busy man, the rematch, Fabio Wardley against Daniel Dubois. Would that be this year? And might there be an announcement of that coming up soon? There will be an announcement coming up. Obviously, Fabio invite the rematch, of course. We've given both fighters a date,

and when I can tell you the date, I will tell you the date. Good. It's happening, that's all. It's happening. And then, I mean, we're forgetting, if that happens this year, at the end of this year, we can look back on this year.

And across different channels and different promoters, it might just be one of those supersonic years. People tell me stop hyping it, but you can't butt hype it if we get a new champion here, a Fabio Wardley Dubois rematch that mirrors the first one. We're forgetting Tyson casually did 67,000 people out in Tottenham.

We're forgetting the mad drama of AJ in Jeddah, and not to mention the half a dozen small hall classics. What a year, George? An amazing year. British boxing, it's thriving, it's booming. We've got an amazing, we've got amazing support across the sport from all the media, all the fans that turn out, the buy tickets, that's what makes it work.

That means that we can pay fighters what we need to make them fight each other. DeZone have been great for us, they've been a great partner. Long made that continue. And look, it's onwards and upwards, and our job is to just keep trying to create events that people want to come to. Let me just say, what a great year we both said is still only August. Exactly. thing about that. That is off the scale. George, thanks very much.

Thanks very much. Thanks very. Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire and you're dead to me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. So that was George Warren there inside the rave pit. Now upstairs at the rave pit is the man that's helped build, shape and mould

Moses or one of the men that's been involved and that's Ben first of all thanks for joining me we don't do a lot because I try and keep my interviews with you for when it's absolutely necessary and is necessary now was upgraded to a world title fight

Philip Hergovich the upgrade's terrific but Hergovich is still I argue a really tough hard fight no he is I think he's it I'll be honest you and someone just reminded me there and you know he said to me 10 years

You said to me, Philip Hoguevich, he's one to watch, and I did. He still is one to watch. Still is. And he's a very good operator. We're well aware of that. But for us, that doesn't change anything. And I'm talking to Moses on Tuesday, and he acknowledges that. And that's one of the things I like about him.

But equally so does Big Phil. Philip, Philip said to me, he said, Steve, he might be everything everyone says, and we'll find out when the fight starts. So it's a really kind of decent way to look at it. It interests a way to look at it. Yeah, because I think they're two both, very confident characters. Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's the strength in itself. I think that when you see people try to play down their opponent, and these guys aren't doing that. They're well aware of what they're getting in the ring with. They're building each other up. Yeah, they're well aware of what they're getting in the ring with, and with that knowledge, still confident. Ben, has there been any change in Moses over the last six weeks,

just even slight things? There's a lot of pressure, and I know, it's an expression, he is still a kid. I know he's a dangerous kid, but he is still a kid. Have you seen any increase in every? anything or any slight change, even subtle changes. No, I just think, you know, the normal anticipation that you get coming into a fight which keeps you sharp, keeps you on your toes, and that's what you need.

And like I say, it's well aware that it's getting in the ring with a good operator, and that's something he's actually relishing. I think people's talking about Hurgovich, like, oh, are you concerned? No, we're excited. Yeah. Because it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity for him to show all these questions that these people keep throwing, what's he like when this happens?

What's he like when that happens? We'll find out. Not even find out. For Moses' perspective is this is an opportunity for me to show. But if you were to do an absolute job on Hurgovich, two or three rounds, and it's not up in me asking you for your prediction,

if you were to do that, I think that sends an unbelievable message because it doesn't matter really what we really believe in and what we think he can do. And I love the finish of Jermaine Franklin. I love the arrogance and the finish and the punch pick and against Dillian Y. And so many of the other,

the wins. But, you know, Hergevich isn't shot to bits. He isn't old. He doesn't lack ambition. He's not coming off a bad loss. None of the things that generally are the guy that the young guy takes to jump over. I mean, Philip is not ready to be stopped in two or three or four rounds. That would be a statement. It would be. And for the exact reasons you just said there, there's not a heavyweight that would get in the ring, not another heavyweight that was getting the ring with Philip Hoguegovich and people would go, oh, I think it's going to be an early night there. So, exactly. If that was to happen, then that would be a statement for all the reasons that you just mentioned there for sure.

But let me ask you this. After big fights, you've been involved in some unbelievable big fights. Mostly you've had success. Every now and again you lose, and that's the way it is. And you've held your hands up, you know, when you've lost. And that's what I've always admired about you. When you get home that night or back to the hotel that night, can you sleep, Ben? You can't sleep off a victory, off a, you know, when you have a good result, bad result, you know, the adrenaline and all the rest of it. So when did you come down? Sometimes I'll find that the night's hard to sleep. The next day, sometimes you can be a bit, you know, you're worn out,

you've not had a bad night's sleep, you can be a bit grumpy and, yeah, it's difficult. It is difficult, it is difficult. But at the same time, it's all the emotions that we're, that's how we know we're alive. No, listen, it wasn't trying to catch you out. No, yeah. Because you know what the Klitsko's decided? Clixos worked out many years ago when they were just early champions. They worked out that when they went back to their wives and,

partners and families, they were miserable, bit grumpy, tight. So they used to go away together, just a two of them, to one of their cabins. I think it was outside of Munich in the Bavarian Mountains. And just calm down for a couple of days. And I think that's a really good idea. No, it is, it is. Smart move. No, it is.

And what we always say, me and Lee always say about football, like whether you have a great result, bad result in football, within a couple of days you're on to the next one. Yeah. Whereas we're boxing, you don't get that. Six months with that kid, maybe, maybe nine months. So, yeah, sometimes you're riding away. Sometimes you're trying to ride back from a tough one.

But, you know, God willing, we're all confident and Moses can make history on Saturday night. So Ben Davison's wandered away to get ready to get on the stage, which I'm now looking down at. Not a bad cast list for a pod before the fight. Now, tomorrow's pod is the preview. I've got the big man, Olympic bronze medalist, European Commonwealth champion as a pro,

and then a world champion as a pro. Still works with the GV squad. It is a course. Telford's finest. Mr. Ritchie Widdell, he'll join me. And then the fight itself, live on Five Live, 10pm. It's been a good week. It's been a big fight week. Richie Woodle tomorrow, these boys tonight, the big lads on Saturday. I'm Steve Bunce, and this has been Five Live boxing.

So much sport today for not. This is Five Live Sports. It's all eight to the lights and fit and a floor. To hold him. It's not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th three. He shows to the centre and go to it. World's greatest sporting events. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire, and you're dead to me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription.