5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Itauma v Hrgovic: Things Just Got Spicy

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

What can we read into the mindsets of both fighters after Filip Hrgovic slapped Moses Itauma following a shove off the stage? There’s plenty for Buncey and Richie Woodhall to get stuck into ahead of the heavyweight world title showdown at the O2. They also hear from promoter Frank Warren, who witnessed the fracas from just a few feet away. Plus, the guys break down where they believe the fight will be won and lost.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and The Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist disclosures. credited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcast. Thank you. Bye. This is Five Live Boxing. On Saturday night, we'll find out who is going to become the new IBF heavyweight champion of the world. Will it be 21-year-old Moses Itama or will it be the Croatian Philip Hergovich? I know one thing, all week it's been lovely.

Today, it was different. It's been very spicy. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. After a week of respect and a gentle, let's get it right, a gentle buildup in the last 30 minutes here in Spittelfields Market in London's East End, this fight has suddenly changed, massively and dramatically changed.

There was an altercation on the stage when Moses Etama was way, after Moses Atama had weighed in and after Philip Hergevich had weighed in. Sure, they stood face to face. It was the usual stuff, the usual insults. I'll do this, I'll do this, that type of stuff. And then suddenly, after about two minutes,

Moses Atomah pushed Hergovich. It was a big lump, 19-odd stone, off the stage. The stage is about two and a half, three foot. Hergovich went down. You could see he was fuming from our position up here in the balcony. He jumped up on the stage. The security got in the middle of it. Frank Warren, the promoter, will be hearing from him in a second.

He got in the middle of it. And then Hergovich landed a clean slap. You could hear it. It was crisp in the air. You could hear it. Then there was a real melee, lots of security, lots of people, members of each entourage, keeping the two fighters apart. It certainly came alive.

I don't necessarily like this type of thing, but having been with the fighters all week and having been with them a lot over the past few years, I can tell you it's not the way they do business, but it was serious. Ritchie Woodall was standing next to me, former Olympic Grands medalist, European and Commonwealth champion at middleweight and world champion, WBC world champion at super middleweight.

Rich, we were watching it just looking down, thinking we were watching just a normal thing. And then suddenly, we got serious drama. Yeah, it just exploded, didn't it? And even yesterday in the press conference, there was no sort of signs that this was going to happen. And yet actually when looking at it and thinking about it now, it's probably 1-0 to Hergovich, because if anything, it showed that Moses just lost it a little bit. I mean, there was trying to restrain him. Like, you wouldn't believe.

It was only people on him. It wasn't for show. It was genuine. And like I say, it won't hurt the promotion, though. It certainly won't hurt the promotion. But I've just seen a side of Moses, well, everyone did, that we hadn't seen before. And, yeah, a little bit alarmed by that because I always thought it was very calm and cool. But this is fine.

He's fine for the heavyweight championship of the world. And it just boiled over. and he just let his guard slip a little bit there and he just showed a side to him which some people might like but I didn't like that because I like the cool Moses Tama rather than that, yes definitely. So Rich, in your opinion...

1-0 to Hevergovich? 1-0 to Hergevich. I think so. I think I might agree with you. Now Ugo Monia who's going to be presenting the England rubber player who's going to be presenting the show tomorrow from the O2 when we go live at 10pm on 5 live. Hugo was down there because he was down there waiting to do an interview. with Frank Warren. So he saw it up close, not from five or six feet away. When Hugo come back,

he was really excited to tell us the story. But before I tell you some of the things that Hugo noted, let's hear what Frank Warren had to say within a minute or two of what happened on the stage. So Frank, great to chat to you. We've just had the way in, but that wasn't the most exciting thing that just happened there. There was a lot of words spoken between Philip as well as Moses, Moses with a push, Hurgovich off the stage. You were in between all of it. Tell us, exactly what went down. Well, it's a shock for me. I mean, you know, they were staring each other and it seemed to get more and more incense.

And I mean, I couldn't get in between them. They were like that just to, you know, ease it a bit. And then he just pushed him. And off he went, you know, off the stage, as you say. And I don't want that. God forbid anything happened. We've got no fight. But it's happened.

There's so much on the line for both these guys. You know, one wants to be the first heavyweight champion from Croatia, world heavyweight champion for Croatia. Moses, the youngest ever British world champion if he comes through, second youngest in the world. I mean, there's been a lot of talking in the week, and I've noticed that, you know, with Philip trying to get the mental edge, old man in him, as we say, in the trade, using all his experience.

I mean, he's an older guy. He's got sterling amateur background, as Moses had, but as a junior, and a youth and youth, not as a senior. And I think that was it. You're not going to verbally bully me, and that's what happened. Unfortunate, but look, the fight's on. I'm sure everybody knows it's for real, and this is something extra, extra special,

and I think tomorrow night we're going to see something extra special from both these guys. They're both going to bring everything on. They're going to give everything, and the public are going to see an amazing fight, is my opinion. It's been bubbling nicely this week. And we've seen a slight changing tone, Hurgovich calling him,

kids and saying he's going to teach him a lesson. He's got to him. I don't mean got to him, but like it sees it's a bit of insult. Yeah, 100% and that reaction from Moses in the way which is jeering up, he's quite a private guy, quite a quiet guy. We've seen a slightly different tone of his personality today, wouldn't you agree? And I've never heard him swear before that much. A couple of odd words here and now, but yeah, it was there. I know it's on the, I watched the press conference because I wasn't there yesterday because I got stung on your foot. I couldn't get there.

And I was watching them. And it was all, you know, the usual two in them throwing, the burbles. And then when they asked Moses, how the fight's going to end? He said, I'm going to knock him out in two rounds. I could see a changing Philip's demeanor. You could just see it. I see, I was watched it back. You know, I've been doing this many, many years,

and sometimes, you know, you take no notice. I see a little bit of changing his demeanor. And I think, you know, today's, again, he's tried to intimidate him, and he's not standing for it. It's remarkable. I think so many people here are going to be excited, they will be excited tomorrow. But when you close your eyes and you can fast forward to tomorrow, what is the outcome you see? Look, fights are about styles and you look at what people's plus, you know, what they do good and what they don't do so good. And I think, I think Moses has a superior speed.

I think he's got a great boxing brain. As Philip has, he's a scholar of boxing. and talk to you about any heavyweight fighter. And I just think the speed is going to be the key sister, jabbing the speed. And if he uses the jabbing the speed, I think he can break him down. But he's aware of that, the other guy. So what's he going to do?

He's going to try and out jab him. And he's going to try an old man. As soon as that bell goes, he's going to jump on his ass and he's just going to try and intimidate. Intimidating, intimidate him. And I think what we see just now was, you ain't going to intimidate me. So it's the only thing I'll pick up on there

because we're going to go over this and go over this, especially once we go live tomorrow night. The only thing I will pick up on there is Frank Warren saying he's never seen him like that before, which just reiterates what you said. I've never seen him like that either. You know what, Steve, there's an old saying, isn't that? You never let your enemy know what you're thinking.

Absolutely. And there, we certainly knew what a Mozart was thinking. And you're like I say, just let his guard down a little bit slightly. And some people might like it. And it's a side to him we haven't seen. It might, listen, it might make him fight even. better, but it was just something that was out of character than what we normally see

from Moses atama. Now, of course, there are people this week, and I'm just going to dwell on this a little bit longer, who have been calling to see a different side of Moses. Wanted to see a little bit off the record, I'm not going to name them, inside his team. So they're happy. They're not shocked or alarmed or scared about anything, but they just would like to see

a little bit more. They certainly got to see it tonight. And let me just reiterate, because there will be people who have been following us since full for nine years now on this pod who were saying, Bansie, come on. It was all planned. It wasn't. Well, let me tell you something.

You don't plan pushing a man three foot off a state. No. Because the potential injury. You do not plan slapping a man. You can't fake a slap, Rich. Two men of 19-odd stone cannot fake a slap. Well, no, you can't. And the way Moses reacted, and listen, it took those security guards.

There was a few of them holding him back. And they had to because he wanted to get at Hergovich. And like I say, that was something that we hadn't seen before. It definitely wasn't put on. No, no doubt about it. It wasn't put on at all, Steve. It was genuine. And yes, some people will like that.

And you know what, Steve? There might be some people in the Moses-A-Tammer camp who aren't that surprised. No. We're surprised because we normally see how placid he seems to be. But that's maybe a side that we have never seen of him,

but they know of that side. And Frank Warren was most shocked, so Hugo suggested to me, because he'd heard Moses swear for the first time. Well, there you go. We had the same thing with Daniel Dubois once, when he was getting ready to fight Anthony Joshua. Daniel Dubois suddenly went,

and you're a massive beep. And I was hosting it. You remember it was like one of those TNT, the last day's TNT, and all of our jaws dropped. Everyone, even AJ's jaw dropped. It was incredible. Well, Ritchie, so the plan was today

that we'd come to the Yonlow, the Curb Social Club in Spitalfields, and we'd have ourselves some Lebanese food or maybe some Malaysian food and get a fancy coffee. It smells lovely, actually, here. here and we'd watch the way in and it'll be all polite and shake hands with Moses and shake hands a big feel then you and I would sit down and do what you're untouchable at which is

break down what's going to happen so before we talk about what you think's going to happen has what you've seen here changed maybe some of the things you were going to talk about this show of emotion has that changed the way the tactics potentially no I don't think I'll change the tactics in that altercation that we've seen there, I was probably more impressed with Hurgovich, to be quite honest. He seemed quite calm at the end when he was up here with his young daughter in his arms. He seemed calm, quite calm, Steve.

As if he'd seen it before, he's certainly a little bit more experienced than Moses, I would say, in these big occasions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, much more experience, I think that's fair to say. But he's not that kind of guy. He's not a confrontational, he said, she said, pushing kind of guy.

But I don't think it will change tactics. It's going to fire them up a little bit more. which probably will add a little bit more spice to it. But in terms of tactically, they'll both have their own tactics and that won't have changed anything for me. So, Rich, what I've been asked for the last two or three weeks, and I've been asked this half a dozen times already this week on Five Live, is Buncey what happens?

Well, the book is, let me tell you, have made Moses Itama a giant favourite, not a little favourite, a massive, massive favourite. They've made Hergovich a massive, massive underdog. Hergovich is 5 to 1 to win. 5 to 1. Moses is 1 to 3. Moses to win by stoppage is still really tight.

For Hergovich to win by stoppage, it's 9 to 1. 9 to 1. This is a noted big puncher against the kid who's not proved anything really. It's all about promise. The book he's got it right. Is Moses such a massive favourite? and his Hurgivic is such a massive underbogic? Personally, Steve, I think that Moses is a slight favourite.

I wouldn't have him a big favourite because Hurgovich is a very good technical boxer himself. Remember, this is an Olympic bronze medalist and anyone out there who can remember those Rio games, go and watch the semi-final when it gets beat against Tony Yoker and then pick your jawr off the floor at the end of it when Yoker's hands gets raised. He should have been in the final.

So, you know, he's a very good technical fighter. And yes, he can bang. What really impresses me and what I'm so excited about tomorrow night, Steve, is this. I think a couple of unanswered questions will be answered tomorrow about Moses. Richard, I'm going to pour you on that. A couple of unanswered questions.

About that 20? Because one of the unanswered questions is, what's his chin like? And it's a fair point. And he's blowing everyone else away up to now. But what is his chin like? Well, I think he'll be tested tomorrow because I can see Hergovich's landing,

on those right hands on his chin. And then that will be one of the questions that we need to be answered. What's he going to do? How is he going to react when he gets scored with a good shot? Hergevich is much better technically than people give him credit for. And I think...

And that's the pedigree of the Europeans, the world's the Olympics. Exactly, exactly, Steve. That amateur pedigree that he's had in a tough league, you know, Eastern Europe would be very, very difficult to actually conquer that. This is before we start to hear about it.

He's in these incredible tournaments behind what used to be the iron curtain. No, then. I think up until the Jili Zhang fight, I thought, his conditioning was... 2020, Olympic qualifier. Exactly, was questionable. But Steve, since then,

his conditioning has improved. He's got much fitter. He's a better fighter. And I think in his last few fights, I think he's improved dramatically. And that's why I think this is a much closer fight than what the bookers have got it out. What's really interesting, Rich,

is that in June of 2020, when he fights Daniel Dubois, and you went back and watched the fight. I actually read my notes. I watched it last night. That fight, he gets stopped in the eighth round on cuts, dreadful cuts. In fact, I was looking at him early on when he was holding his door up close from 10 inches away. Those cuts are still really visible.

That's why there's always a danger. We'll talk about this later on about those cuts reopening. But in that fight, he catches Dubois so many times that I think after about the fifth round, The referee goes over to Dubois's corner and speaks to Dubois and Don Charles to tell them, to tell them, buck up. Yeah, exactly.

Well, you're going to get stopped here, overlooked and forgotten now. Exactly. He came so close to beating Daniel. Let's get it right. But Daniel, give him credit. He came through it and he got the stoppage and the cuts, whatever.

But yes, there was parts in that fight where you think, is Daniel going to go here? Because Hergovich box absolutely superbly well. And let's face it, Steve, as well. Another point I'd like to make. He's never lost against a Southpaw, you know. He beat Dempsey McKean, who was 22 and 0. He beat Jili Zhang who was 24 and 0.

Two good safe bores. He wasn't impressive. Like I said, against Zhang, because I thought his conditioning wasn't very good. But that's improved. Still won. He still catches those Southpores with the right hands. He's comfortable against Southpores.

Let's get that right. And also, competing at the top level like he did as an amateur. Yeah. Well over 50% of your opponents of Southpores. Safe balls. Those Kazakhs. The Uzbeks. Cazbex, Uzzaks, Cubans.

They get switched. We know that. So constantly, so he, you know, whatever it is, 200 and something amateur contest he had. He's probably 400 and 50 Southpores. I think Moses is a favourite, but I don't have him a massive favourite because I think Hergovich is better

than what people give him credit for. Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history.

And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and The Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints

in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott. So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcast. Thank you. Bye. Rich, that's, that's, we're talking about the South Puffing. That's perfectly valid. The South Puffing is perfectly valid.

Let's forget the South Poffing for a moment. And let's go back to, it's the first round, okay? After what we saw today, I can't let this go today. Yeah. Is Hurgovich thinking, you know what, why don't I continue from where I left off with a slap? Will Hurgovich, will he take a risk early in the fight? And could that risk pay off because of the unknowns? will be Moses like under pressure? What will Moses be like under pressure?

What will Moses be like if he's hit on the chin, hurt, dropped or cut? Steve, trust me, I think Hergevich will prefer Moses to come over his front foot and come to him. Which Moses could do if his emotions are running right? And motions run nice. So this could have an effect on the contest in that way. I still think tactically they'll have that tactic set out. But if Moses comes over his front foot comes forward, it could be easier to be hit with the right hand. Any safe ball coming at an Orthodox boxer coming forward closes the gap himself

and makes it slightly easier for the Orthodox boxer to land his right hand. It's when the Orthodox fighter's going to go looking for the safe ball, overreaching, and that's why safe balls are so good at counterpunching. And Moses has taken a few people out that way. Exactly.

When he's had them hurt and they come at him, he's taken him out. He beat a guy called Mike Ballaghan, the former NFL player, with a really smart counter as Balligan was running forward in a desperate last its chance to win. Now what I would like to see probably backstage

is Ben Davidson getting old of Moser Tamer saying, just calm down a little bit. This doesn't change anything. Let him come to us. Let's counter punch him as we... Stick with a plan. Stick with the game plan. Him and Lee Wiley have got a plan.

Exactly. Ben Davidson is very, very experienced and knows his stuff. So I think tactically and technically they'll keep to what they know. best, they'll counter punch in my opinion. That's how he beats him, gets him overreaching and counters him, Steve. If he goes forward to Tomer, it makes it a little bit easier for Hergovich

to catch him with his right hand. And I don't think there's any chance of Hergovich overreacting and going headhunting. I think surely Hergevich will be thinking I've got all this experience, all these fights, I've done all of this stuff as an amateur, 15, 20 year dream to be a world champion. I'm not going to rush out there

and let my heart roll my head and get clipped on the chin. Steve, I think he'll pick and poke with his lead hand on the outside, trying out jab Moser Tama, and then try and get him to come forward. He's taller, longer reach, big boy. This is a fight where he's got to use that height and reach advantage. If he goes recklessly over his front foot in a bent arm position where he's throwing hooks, he's going to walk onto that many shots from Moser Tamer.

That will be bread and butter stuff from Mozart. So what Urgevich has got to do, lead with his lead hand, keep them nice and straight, pick and poke, and get her and get a town to come forward. I don't think there'll be a problem, especially after tonight getting Moses to come forward. The problem might be. It could be a double bluff though, Steve?

No, no, it might be a, listen, there's enough double bluffs and unknowns in this. It's seen it before. It's like a mysterious poker game somewhere. I think that Lee Wiley and Ben Davidson in the corner, I think they're going to have to do a lot of work. So I think they're going to have to almost get Moses to increase pace, decrease pace, control his emotions,

let his emotions go all in separate spurs. Because they know, they don't want Moses to go out wild. They'll want him to be calm. They'll want him to be thoughtful. They'll want him to pick and choose his punches. Hergovich, you know, if he got to him on the stage today and if he maybe got to him this week, although Frank Warren insists that it was Moses

who got to Hergovich by talking about knocking him out in the second round. that's to be decided. This could be a classic case of. The boxer who leads off could be the boxer that gets counted. If Moses leads off and he falls short, you're in against a taller man with a longer reach

that can catch him with a counter. If Hurgievich fall short with his long straight shots, then it's bread and butter stuff for Moser Tamer. He'd love that. He'd really love it. You know what? I don't really understand, Rich. And listen, you and I did

back in our BT days. We did all of Moses. his early fights. I think we did maybe 10 to 14 fights from ringside York Hall, smaller venues, when we got intimacy enclosed us. You know, I spoke to an interviewer

him from before he had his first pro fight. And one of the things that when I think about it is that we're talking about him taking Hergevich out. The book is fancy he'll take her, Hurgovic out. I've got to

ask you this, maybe a bit of an unfashionable question. Why is it that everyone is so convinced You know I'm going to ask you this question. Why is everyone so convinced that he's going to do a job on Hurgovich? Because even Ben Davidson said to me, said, Steve, can you imagine? There's no other heavyweight out there who people think is going to walk through Hurgovich,

except for Moses. Yeah. Why is it? I think a lot of that's probably to do with, they're underestimating, some people are probably underestimating Hurgivich a little bit. But also... And it's a flip side of that overestimating Moses. Yeah, exactly, an overestimate.

And that's not a criticism. That's an observation. What we can say also is that every time we've asked Mozart Tamer to step up a level, he has and he's done it dramatically. I still think the best win was against Dillion White in the fashion that he did it. Nobody, I don't care what anybody says. Nobody expected him to beat him in the way he beat him. We thought he'd probably beat him on points.

Break him down in six or seven. But in one round, every time he has stepped up, every time he has stepped up and he's gone one, and he might do this again here. Because, you know, he's that undefeated fighter. We don't know how good he actually is yet. And he could go to another level, and people are banking on him, going to a next level and stopping Ergovich.

I think that's a big ass personally, and I don't think that's what will happen. But that's what people are expecting to happen, Steve. I think it's a massive ask. And I've got to do my little bit for Big Phil, who I like, who are called Likeable, in an interview with Moses, and he wasn't very happy with me calling him Likeable.

I thought he was going to walk out of him. Well, Caledivian, that's neither here, not here, not there. But Rich, I've got to do my little bit for the Croatians and also for Hergovich. And let's just get this absolutely straight. Philip Hergovich is not here to make up the numbers. No way. If he wins this, he makes history in Croatia. If he wins this, he's up there with Matty Paloth,

the great amateur from the 70s and the 80s. Okay? And he becomes a king, a world-everweight champion, but a sporting king in Croatia. We can't underestimate that, Rich. Not only that, but he becomes incredibly wealthy, because there'll be a rematch somewhere down the live. And not only that, he gets to fight X, Y and Z.

For all you know, that might be the fight. The Ussik fences. It's a heavy way. It's a giant fight. It's a massive fight. The only other heavyweight I can remember from Croatia was a kid back in the late 19... When I was world champion and Lennox Lewis,

Defend his... Zika Mavitch. He had like a... Moegan air cut. He's the only heavyweight that I can think of from Croatia at this level. I can't think of another one. It might have been one of the same.

scariest human beings in history, Zilko Mavrovich. Yeah, exactly. You don't have one fight, you know. It was a good fight against Lennox. It's not bad, is it? So you imagine if Hurgievich wins this title, he would become an overnight hero in Croatia. And I think that's also maybe being overlooked. So Rich, let me ask you this.

Ding, ding, first bell, where are we? What happens? We're 19,000 people. The atmosphere is incredible. What happens? What happens in the first round? You're on the spot, sir. I think it's a bit of a physical chess match, Steve, and just literally feeling each other out in that first round, not wanting to make a mistake.

I don't think it'll be fireworks to be quite. Does that benefit anyone? Who does that benefit most, I should say? Who does it benefit most? It just benefits the person who, it benefits the person who can draw the opponent in over that front foot. That's who it benefits.

So I think it's literally a chess match, a physical chess match of trying to draw the opponent's lead. Can Moses win a 12-round chess match? Well, that's one of these. Steve. That's one of those other unanswered questions. What's it like after six or seven rounds? We don't know.

And he can do all the sparring he wants him. We just don't know when you're under the lights. You've got those small gloves on. It's the contest situation. It's totally different. What's his conditioning like after six or seven rounds? And, you know, he might get a little bit offended because, you know, he's Moses a Tamer, but we have to ask these questions because we've never seen of him.

So who knows? Hopefully we'll find out tomorrow. And we know just about everything we need to know about Big Phil. We know he's brave. He's got 12 rounds against Gilles Jones. We know he can hurt people. We know he can be hurt, but then come back in those fights. And we know he's still got a desire.

And his chin has been tested. So those questions have been answered with Hergevich. They haven't with Moses a tower. And do you know what, Steve? We might be speaking tomorrow. Those questions might not still be answered because he might go up another level and shock everyone and go on and stop Hergevich. If he were to dominate,

a Hergovich and the picture I painted of Hergovich and walk away after three or four round stoppage, dropping him once or twice. That would send an overwhelming and incredible message to the heavyweight scene to all of the men, the wannabes, the three big names that are looking for one last flight and before they walk away, it might. And I don't want to throw forward to Sunday's pod,

but if he does it in style, surely one of the big three, AJ, Usik. or Fury will go, well, I've got to beat this lad. You can't scurry away if there's a kid like that on the block, can you, Rich? I mean, Daniels, Ball, had a great win against Hergevich, didn't he? Let's face it. But if Moses a timer can do it in three or four rounds or even earlier, mate, that would be one hell of a statement. Richard, that was a beautiful ending, but unfortunately it's not the ending.

Because we've got to do the flip side of we know what could happen if Moses wins, and we've just talked about what would happen if Hergovich wins. who suffers most in defeat or is it dependent on defeat take me through all the case scenarios which if you can Steve I really believe that Moses of Tamu is in a win-win situation in that if he loses he's 21 years of age this is his 15th contest he'll probably go on Steve he could box to least 40 and have probably 20 or 30

world championship contest if he wants to with the skills that he's got yeah of course exactly you're looking at he might win the title tomorrow or he will definitely be a future world champion. So I think defeat, Hurgievich suffers more in defeat rather than Atama. Hurgovich is the 34, remember. Okay, more or less his first world title fight, isn't it? So, you know.

Should have had one earlier. Should have had one earlier. He suffers a little bit more. There's still time for both of them. But for me, Mozart, if he gets beat, he gets beat, he's human, and he'll go on and win a world title, no question. Richie Woodall, they're not pulling any punches, as they say in the trade,

getting right down to it, breaking it down brutally. We've seen here a scuffle on the stage. We've seen Philip Hergovich pushed off the stage. We've seen Hergovich regain his feet and slap Moses. Then we've seen a massive melee with the security having to earn their corn. That was about, I'm no, 40-odd minutes ago. Frank Warren said he'd never seen anything like it from Moses. Well, I've never seen anything like it from the pair of them.

That's just a taster. So that's just a tease for tomorrow night, where Moses Atama will try and become the second youngest heavyweight in history to win the World Heavyweight title. A vacant IBF belt is on the line. He would become the second youngest British boxer to ever become a world champion,

losing that to Nassim Hamid by about 14 days. But more than that, as Richie's been talking about, and as Hugo Monnier talked about a little bit with Frank Warren, he will answer, hopefully, some of the big questions that hover over this extraordinary talent. I'm not going to say a one-off talent. I'm just going to say an extraordinary talent. I know one thing.

Saturday night inside the O2 will be spectacular. And I believe it's the start of four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, even ten years. We're live from 10pm on Five Live tomorrow. It will be a special night. Come and join us. I'm Steve Bunce and this has been Five Live Boxing. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is five live sports.

It's all eight to the lights and fit in the floor. To bowl him is not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th green. Overhead, get up. He serves to the centre. Of the world's greatest sporting events. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello, Greg Jenner here.

I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode I pair up a topist. and with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott. So, if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to your dead to me wherever you're.

get your podcast. Thank you. Bye.