5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Itauma v White: The New Prince of Boxing

Episode Date: August 17, 2025

Are we one step closer to saying Moses Itauma is the future of heavyweight boxing? Barry Jones joins Buncey to look back at his devastating first round knockout of Dillian Whyte. They hear from Itauma, as well as his promoter Frank Warren.

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Pockethose.com slash P-O-D-C-A-S-T. This is five live boxing. It was meant to go 10. It didn't go two minutes. That's what happens in heavyweight boxing. That's what happens when you have a fighter like Moses Atama. Dillian White was the loser Moses Atama was the winner

It was a special fight And a special night I'm Steve Bunce And this is Five Live Boxing I guess really I've got to say it What a night What an ending Anyway I'm sitting somewhere

Very nice with Barry Jones It's very late It's also very hot Barry what exactly are you doing now Just paint the picture Where you are and what you're doing I mean the nice little bar at the bottom of a hotel, not my hotel, by the way.

And I got a nice big bottle of water still, not sparkling. And then my new habit, when I go away, a shisha. Yeah. I mean, it's mad. When I go home, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do anything, never have. And then over here, I slip right in, don't I? You sit with a shisha. You love it.

You can do it. You've got embers there blowing and glowing. It's weird, isn't it? I know I can. I don't understand it. But yeah. I think this might be my last one, though. The next trip, I think I'm going to go

Shisha free. I don't know what I'm trying. Shisha free. Yeah. Can I ask, why would you go shisha free? It's no good for you, is it? Obviously, no good for you. You've gone sock-free and you're playing golf.

You can't go sock-free, golf free, and sh-sh-sh-sh-free. Let's not talk about the golf, mate. All right, listen, let's talk about what we witnessed tonight in Riyadh. coming to the ring, Moses Itama was 20 years of age. He left the ring 20 years of age. Coming to the ring, he was unbeaten. He left the ring unbeaten. The fight was officially stopped against Dillion White

after 1 minute and 59 seconds, after White had been dropped heavily by a short Southpour right hook. He beat the count, but the referee quite wisely and rightly, in my opinion, decided to cool it off. It was one minute and 59 seconds of boxing, but we might be discussing what happened in that one minute and 59 seconds for a long time, certainly for longer

than one minute and 59 seconds. Well, first of all, he came to the ring, the ring and he was fantastic. Yeah, they were. But he came to the ring and he was waiting, I think, for four minutes. Well, I think it was longer. I thought it was longer than that.

No, I think it was about four minutes in the end, Steve. Okay. And then, but either way, he didn't want to leave his dressing room, apparently, or just played the game. game. All week he hasn't really played that game. You haven't used that experience of a big fight on occasion, which he's been so many times

before, and he's been quite subdued and humble and playing that role. And I thought didn't use what he'd had to his advantage, trying to get in the head of the younger fighter with lack of experience. But he did tonight. I think, you know, keeping him waiting in the ring, possibly potentially getting the

time to get in his own head, maybe, and certainly frustrated that he's at the wait. Anyway, the bell went and again he just shows so much composure so much maturity the thought I spoke to him in the week

and he said I can't remember what he said just the way there's not even what he said the way he said it you just think this is a gut kid I can say I still say kid

who thinks about everything so I spoke to Ben Davidson the day after and I said you can see he takes instructions in the ring

in the corner but he also he can think for himself I said how do you you manage that as a trainer? And he said, Barry, he asks questions. And then he goes out and you can almost see him in the corner

thinking about it. What's going to happen? You can hear his mind worrying. I mean, that's such a dangerous prospect for anyone. But for the heavyweight, I've said it for a heavy weight who punches hard, moves like a middle weight, has composure and can think on his feet. I mean,

with his ability, I mean, he's a problem for anybody. And I mean, anybody. The problem you have is we start haven't seen him in a test because nobody yet has been able to test him. This was meant to be a test. Dylan White, of course, is, no, at the latter end of his career. Even so. Might not have it because we didn't have a chance, but we didn't have a chance to find out if he had it because Atomber took the center of the ring straight away. Dylan threw a jab and he threw it half a jab

and a right hook over the top. Yeah. Caught him straight away. One of a heavy shot, but he just showed But Dylan showed it hurt him. But he showed he had the timing. Yeah. That's what it was there. And then all that's done there, and it takes Dylan's jab away like that. Yeah. Straight away. You know, if I throw that,

I'm going to get a cough. You're going to get clipped over the top. And then he makes it and do nothing. Yeah. And all good fighters do that. They do it with the faints or the movement or the power. And what they do, they just stunt your work.

Yeah. So you're overthinking. And then while you're overthinking, they're going about their work. Yeah. And that's what he did. The jab was coming in for, for Matama and you could sense that.

And he was very, he was very in. Listen, the fight was so short. and yet there was so much to analyze because he was very in the pace of the jab. And then he threw a couple of very long straight lefts to the body when Dillian moved his hands up.

And then he threw some double jabs when his jab was foolish, but proper ramrod double jabs. And he's always fainting with his feet. Yeah. Always moving his feet. Always a threatening presence in front of you, but with the ability to take a little step out and make you miss. And you feel that because he does as you once

so then you're tentative to throw. and he's advancing and stealing his space. How many times have we said this about people like Golofkin and Uzik and Canelo? Are they steal your space? Stealing space. And before you know it, you're in your own little box either having to fight you out of trouble

or cover up and hope you don't get hurt. So before we talk about the final sequence when he traps Dillion on the ropes because that's like a 12-punch sequence that needs to be broken down. Let me ask you quite early and you've mentioned it there. We still don't know about X, Y and Z.

and all of the things that we talked about, heart, desire, stamina, taking a punch. But did we learn anything tonight about Moses Atama? I'll list a couple of things I think we did learn. I think we reinforced more than learned, I would say. That's a good point. We reinforced that he has the maturity of a veteran, I think. I mean, he's so calm as a pro-

How many times have I said this about the sign of a quality of fighter is they never rush their work. Their composure. Never rush their work. but they always get the fight they get you out there early I mean without rushing it without getting...

And when you're 20 the exuberance of youth will almost force you to rush your work Like I thought... You'd be forgiven for rushing your work Let's put it that way I thought him too fast And there's no power in him

He picks his shots He's thinking before he does anything But it seems He's so quick of thinking It's almost like he's not thinking But when he got him on the rope And ran him with that right hook First of all

On that temple Temple Temple He was going for the temple And the other one was maybe On the top of the head Absolutely. That's what he was going for.

But he took a half a step back. Yeah. Took a breath, had a look. Just in case something was coming back. And then only a half a step so he could jump back on you straight away without losing any distance and range. Yeah. And then before he went in, he fainted. I mean, it might sound like nothing.

But this is in real time when he knows he's hurt you. Yeah. And he has the maturity and the thought process to still make sure he's safe. Yeah. Without losing any of his power, aggression. Wasting any shots. Without allowing you to escape. I mean, that's unbelievable for anyone at any level.

Now, what people might be doing at this point is they're listening to this as they're driving on their yoga mats or canoeing or doing whatever they do when they listen to the show. They'll be saying, yeah, but there was nothing coming back. Now, we're acknowledging there was nothing coming back. We're acknowledging that we didn't learn. There's a lot of things we didn't learn. We're acknowledging that, but we're just picking up. And what Barry's really, you've really nailed there, Barry,

is that idea that even in that moment when he would be forgiven for getting him, for getting and becoming slightly emotional, he remained icily composed. He then lands a couple of body shots. Dillian staggers along the ropes. He moves his feet brilliantly to allow Dillian to go along the ropes, no chance of a clinch. And then he adjusts his feet for the final shot,

which sends Dillian face down. That was a work of boxing art. It was, again, because his judgment at the distance, it's so fantastic that he can advance and throw punches almost freely. How do you do it? We still the thought of make sure I don't get caught. It's mad. It really is mad.

And also, by the way, Dylan didn't throw a punch. But he took his jab away with the first punch jab didion through. The two shots over the top of it. Like I said, you went jab right hook over the top. takes the jabber straight away, clams him up immediately. And obviously, Dylan already, probably thinking,

how much have I got left? Just adds to that panic. And then he got rid of it. He made it look so easy. And the first thing to think is Dylan was awful, Dylan was this, Dylan was that. And he might be,

and he is like on the other side, of course, of his peak, clearly. And he's shown that in previous fights. But you give him an opportunity and he will cause you trouble. And we know that with Dylan. Even this Dillian would still cause your trouble potentially.

I would say one thing. If Dillian had had a timeward on the ropes, he's throwing from the rafters and hitting anything. Absolutely. And look on what motion to happen. He took his time. Yeah. One minute of 59 seconds, that fight lasted.

Yeah. And he took his time. Yeah. Maybe he could have got him out of 30 or 30 or 30 seconds. It's phenomenal, Steve. It is. Earlier, yeah, I agree. One of the things that I think we did learn,

little bit tonight was that delay you're saying it was four minutes I thought it was longer we we didn't put a clock across it because we were also in rapture waiting for Dillian to come waiting for great piece of music with the jaws theme which was I thought was really cool I think he showed some composure in the ring you know he wasn't huffing and puffing and speaking he's he squatted down in his corner for a couple of minutes just on his own lowered his head I like that he's almost well I know he does breathing exercises and I know he does visualization and you could sense that there that he'd been going through things working

working through things when it was over there was a bit of a melee at ringside but i did get up in the ring and got a few words with moses atama and one of the things i love about him is when you interview him he stands to attention in front of you no literally stands to attention like he's being scolded he stands so he stood to attention here i am in the ring after the one minute 59 second fight talking to Moses Atama. That's what I've been drilling for 12, 13 weeks. So I'll put on performance for you guys now. So it's now who's next.

It is who's next. Now, I'm going to ask you this. In an ideal Moses Atama world, in a fantasy world, who would it be next and would it be this year? The thing is, I don't want to call out Uzik because I don't believe that I deserve the opportunity,

but the guys that do deserve the opportunity, I want to fight them lot. So maybe Cabell, maybe Joe, Joseph Parker, maybe them type of names. It's been a special week, kid, isn't it? Say that again? It's been a special week. Oh man, I'm grateful.

I'm grateful. That's it, they're just going to go. You're going to allow yourself for holiday? Because a couple of years ago, you said you weren't going to have holidays. It's hard, man, because when I'm not doing what I'm meant to be doing, I get a little bit, I miss the gym. I feel like I'm not doing my purpose. But I feel like, as of right now, going to rest,

and then maybe be back in the gym. And final question, when you caught him with that final short right hook, what did that feel like to you? Have you ever had a feeling like that before? I didn't want it to be over just yet. I've trained hard for this, man. I didn't want it to go in the first round. A couple of things from the interview, Barry, that we'll pick up on.

And the first thing was when I said to Moses, Moses, I'm not sure you know what you're doing. And his shoulders when he went, no, no, that's been a drill. That was a finish. It was a drill. That was something I've worked on. And he was really stressing because sometimes, great fighters

often don't know what they're doing they just do it instinctively they don't plan it don't scheme it they can just do things so that that was natural but what I did like was his line about Alexander Usik where he doesn't feel he deserves a world title fight against Usik

just gonna say Bell you're creating a right smoke here fireman Sam might be coming if you can barely see you Barry where are you Barry where are you Ambiard oh don't hold on There you go Amiance. Remind me when I get that next time

not to get the ambiance hooker pipe. Anyway, so Barry D I forgot my train of fault there, it doesn't matter, I'll pick up on it. So he said to me, he said that he doesn't deserve a world title fight against Usik. He said, but get me the men who are in line to fight him,

as it Caboile and Joseph Parker. And in fact, when he was standing in front of me, He was looking past me. And he may have been looking at Joseph Parker. I spoke to Joseph Parker a bit later on, we'll hear that in a second. But he may have been looking at Joseph Parker. There's no animosity there,

because I don't really think that Moses Atama does animosity outside the ring. He does his animosity in the ring. So I thought I was refreshing him, instead of taking care of Dylan White in 1 minute, 1 minute 59 and saying, yeah, bring me Ussick, bring me AJ, bring me the heads of Tyson Fury. that was quite respectful.

Yeah, I think, again, it goes back to, oh, he's a thoughtful person, not just a fighter, a thoughtful person, and understands,

you know, realistic, and I like that. He knows how good he is, and he believes he's the best. And that's, I think you've got to have that arrogance a little bit,

but he disguises it with intelligent conversation, intelligent, intelligent, um, artistry in the ring as well, by the way, I would say that much.

So, like, he will fight Uzik tomorrow if he could. I don't, I think it's a silly move. because you don't want him to win a world title. You want him to win a little title and rain for a long time.

So I think there's lots of fighters for him to fight. I mean, he still is only 20 and we haven't seen him get clocked by a big puncher. Push back. We haven't seen him hit someone and then not have an effect. We haven't seen him be dragged into a round date when he's knackered.

Or route six, we don't know. Cut, all these things. Maybe we never see that, but I mean, and he don't want to see that. Nor does Ben Davidson, inspiring these certain things. That's what Ben kept saying to me. We've seen it. Steve, we've seen it in the gym. But it's different

inspiring because you can always stop. We all know that. Who would you draw up from a list? And you can use any heavyweight you like. Except not Oussie. Who would you draw up as the guys that would give Moses Itama problems? Hang on. I don't know who gives him a problem.

I mean, I'm on the ball. I'm on his train. I am. Yeah. But also I do have a side of caution and not go stupid too quick. too soon. I mean, what's you, I think I said before here, you know, like Dillian White and Dejazzora all those names, they're Nixon fan bases.

But, I know, there's a Jagber, there's Richard Torres, who are underfeated good fighters, ambitious, who were very good, especially Torres, is very good. I think Torres is a problem. I tell you why I think Torres would be a problem for him. He's got a good cheer and he's strong and he's young and he's fast.

Yeah. And I think, I think, I think if you want to be, if you want to beat Moses, just being big and strong is not enough. I think you need some speed. I really think speed. And also, you tend to think that's a fight for a world title down the line because they are waiting in the wings

for these guys to disappear so they can take over. Absolutely, don't get me wrong. Yeah, and listen, there's good fight. I mean, any fight, you can almost any fight to know and you think that's a good fight. Fabi Warli is a great fight. Yeah, Fabi Warl is a great fight. But they're on their own route, aren't they?

There's somebody on their own route to, you're going to get to their own World Title challenge. Yeah. So it's fairly difficult. It's very difficult with a pick with Steve. I think, you know, like I said, people like a Jagba, Michael Hunter is highly ranked. You know what I mean? He's boxing now again in a few months.

Mobility and speed might work. Bell, you have a massive draw on your ambiance hubble bubble. And I think because he did mention Joseph Parker, I spoke to Joseph Parker. Here I am at ringside with Joseph Parker, where I do put it to him that Moses Atama has mentioned his name. Great Alan. It's a, before the fight we said it's either going to be a quick fight, but if it goes past three or four rounds, it could be a lot more challenging. He came out, he hunted, he put on a great display in terms of power, aggressive,

and he also picked his shots. You liked the picking the shot bit, didn't you? That appealed to Joseph Parker, the fact that he picked his shots, you liked that, didn't you? He picked the shots and he showed that for a 20-year-old to be under the bright lights, he took the pressure on. and he just he looked good he looked very good and the way I see it at some point in the next two years you and him will inevitably share a ring

I love to share a ring with him one day I know you would yeah we probably will everything's sort of heading towards that way and I know I'm not sure what he has next but hopefully I can lock on a few fights and then if it's all going well and good

Sir Joe listen thanks for your time and I really hope you get what you deserve because even talking this week to Moses he said that you deserve your world title fight. Everyone in boxing knows you deserve your world title fight. Thank you, Banski. So Joseph Parker there, obviously he's jumping at the prospect of fighting

and just jumping to the prospect of fighting. Just, you know, Joe's going to have to wait a long time and I don't think he's going to get Ousek. You know, we've known there's been extensions. That's stuff we've handled this week and we're going to handle going forward. I did speak to Ben Davis. We're not going to hear from Ben Davis. What Ben Davison said was, all we wanted was some rounds.

We still didn't get the rounds. He said we've got them in the gym, but, you know, We know what you can do, but they still want to get rounds. I still want to get rounds. They will come. Yeah, they will come. They will come. They will come.

They will come. All you can do is train and prepare for it and hope he reacts in the right manner when they comes. I mean, so you can hold the reins back forever, hoping he gets until he gets the rounds. But there's enough time for him still. Like, he can go next month. Oh, we know that.

He literally could. So, you know, you've got to. trying to put you go try and give him the opponents that on paper will give him the wrongs yeah and then if he gets rid of him then he's just that good i mean the thing when you choose adillion white who's the top 30 everywhere a top 25 heavyweight top 20 heavyweight whatever one want to say but he is in that he's in that mix you know he's not he's not direct he's not standing next to a j dubois as it cabal and joseph parker but he's in is in the mix with the rest of the you know there's 20 or 30 them in that big gang and they're all

names and they could all work. I mean, he might do a situation to do the similar thing to what Mike Tyson did all those years ago. I know Tyson was world champion at the time when he took care of five or six names. You know, one, you know, what, what? Jolie Zhang, why not Julei Zhang? I mean, I'm being honest. Yeah, no, of course, yeah. Philip, Philip, I mean, that's a really good fight, Philip Herv. Because, you know, he won almost every round against David Adelaide, but he didn't have it all his own way at times, you know, and he got hurt as well. That was in the undercard, um, Philip Hurgovich, the Croatian, who tend to like a lot. He lost to Daniel Dubois.

That's his only defeat. And he beat David Adelaide, former British champion from Labbrook Grove. And he won almost every single round, but David competed in a lot of them. And when he got dropped, I think it was in the eighth round. He got up, and I thought he won the rest of that round, to be perfect on. That was in one of the undercard fights. Mixed reaction

to that. Some people, I wasn't that bothered by David Adelaide not doing as much as maybe he could, but Frank Warren was quite, you know, he was a bit upset that David didn't let his fist go, That's what happens in heavyweight boxing, as Frank said. And talking to Frank, I also spoke to Frank. Let's hear from Frank, who I put a question to a few days ago,

and it gives us another answer to that question. Plus, it's his appraisal. And by the way, you can just hear the raw emotion in Frank's voice. How he did it, his temperament, his control, his composure, 20 years old. He fights better than I've seen guys who are at their peak. And he's not at his peak, he's 20 years of age. And he's done a job on somebody we've seen at the best levels, giving the best fighters tough fights and winning tough fights.

I mean, some of those body shots when Dillian was covering his head, then whipping the head shots in, and then creating a room just about where you're standing to land that final shot. You can't teach that. And you get guys, especially at that age, when they're throwing their shots, they're hurtful shot. Sometimes they fall in. It keeps, it gets distance all the time.

The composure's there all the time. Brilliant. Now, before, now, it's really early, I know. Before the fight, I said to you, Frank, if he comes through this fight, if he wins, would you put him in a world title fight? And you said to me, straight away, without missing a beat, you went, depends how he wins. So, Frank, I'll put it to you again. Let's say that a title became vacant and, you know, because of the U.S. situation,

would you, after what we saw here tonight, would you, in theory, put Moses, forward? In theory, yeah, I would. I mean, you know, for a kid he's had 13 fights. What do you do? I mean, you've got to, and no senior bouts as an amateur. What was that headguard? Without headguard. None of it. And you think about that. And, you know, what I, I mean, I suppose, what I look at, I've got to look at what Dillion's done, look at what Dillian's done in his career, and the tough fights are saying he's had, and how he's easily, he dealt with him. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people.

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of the National Association of Realtors, right by you. So Frank, we're on there, and the one thing that, you know, he said there was that, in theory, I would put him in with a champion. So that means there's going to be a few more learning fights. Now, let's leave Mos de Tama

to celebrate and be crowned the prince of boxing or whatever you want to crown him. Dillian White was complaining in the ring that it was stopped early. I caught up with Buddy McGur, former two-way world champion and experienced, now a veteran trainer. And I asked Buddy about that. Well, you know, he says he's okay, but when he got up, he was a little wobbly. Yeah, you know.

And that's all that matters. Yeah, you know what I mean? So, you know, the referee figured he wasn't. So, you know, Baudill's like I'm okay. But by him staggering when he got up, the referee was like, no. Buddy, that's really honestly. Were you surprised at the speed of Moses-A-Tat-A-W. I knew the kid had speed.

I mean, everyone told me he's athletic. I've seen, you know, the clip surface knockouts. I knew he was fast. I knew, you know, he could punch. You know what I'm not crazy, you know what I mean? So very refreshing from buddy there saying, no, at that point when he got up, he was wobbling. It was right to be stopped. And I like that degree of honesty.

So sticking with Dillian, instead of finishing with Moses, the time, but let's finish with Dillian. 37 years of age, been in about 15 absolute humdingers, hard fights. Won some, sorry, won most of them lost one or two. What would you like to see Dillian do now? Walk away. No one wants to walk away on a defeat and a defeat at that manner. But he's had a fabulous career. Where did he come from to where he ended up, it's been amazing. He's had a really good run.

He's had been some great fights, some really great fights and competed. And he was unlucky he had that long wait for the world title shot. No disgrace for the long wait. One thousand nights. It's unbelievably just disgusting. Oh, he had to wait that long. So he didn't get luck that way. But he's earned a lot of money, hopefully.

Yeah. He's secure for life, man. And he's been a joy to watch, and he's been a fan favorite. But it's done for him now, I think. He doesn't want to go down the level, to be an opponent against people below Atama. I don't think he doesn't deserve that. His pride wouldn't take it.

So walk away, and you'll be remembered fondly for the rest of your life. And there's no way if he works his way down that list. He's getting anything like the kind of bank he got for this fight. Let's get that right. He's going to be fighting for peanuts, and his pride won't allow him to do that. Dylan White, if you're right away at the sunset, Barry Jones and I will be extremely happy.

Barry, Nick Ball retained his WBA featherweight title with 12 round points decision over Sam Goodman, the unbeaten Australian, who lost obviously for the first time tonight. I thought it was a particularly close, scrappy, messy fight. Two of the judges thought it was massively wide. What say you? How did you have it? Yeah, I did 1-16, 112 for football.

So 8-4. But everything was close. So the guys I was working with Andy Lee, Darren, Darren, back. They, they... Did his own table, Bell. The zone table. They, so at one point, I had ball up, and they had Goodman up. With about three rounds.

With about three rounds. Yeah, about four rounds ago, maybe, three rounds ago. Yeah. But only by one, I think. And Andy might have had their level, but... And then, obviously, they had the ball the win at the end. Yeah. But I had a lot wider than them.

But they were all the rounds were cloaks. and tight. Yeah. It's just, I think just the weight and the quality of the shot

for ball, probably was the difference. I think ball can box much better than that. I think Goodman box boxed out of his skin. He boxed out of his skin.

He boxed out of his skin. He boxed really well, and he wasn't afraid to stay on it all the time, but he also, just, for me, just sometimes just looking for that one big shot.

And then when he relaxed that the loading the combination, that's when he dominated. Yeah, so Nick Ball, I think, ball can fight better and it was Sam Goodman's World Tidal Fight after those two World Tidal,

so it was Sam Goodman's World Cup as the cliche goes after those two ridiculous fights with Anoui fell apart. I didn't realize the details of the Anui collapse. Did you know the details? Because it gets a cut eye in the last minute at the last round of sparring so the fights cancelled with Anoui. Then he comes back, four stitches.

The first punch at the first round of sparring He gets hit on the eye and it requires plastic surgery to close it. So he's had terrible luck. Fought his heart out tonight. I thought it was tight. I still thought he lost, but great for Nick Ball.

No one's talked about it or mentioned it yet. I'm wondering after all these years and especially after five world title fights and five world title fight training camps in 17 months. If Nick Ball needs a rest. Yes. I mean, we've been praising him for being active

because I think this has helped him. There's a flip side to being active, isn't it? Yeah, maybe he does need a bit of a rest. And maybe he thought it was going to be an easy night than it was because Goodman, when you watch Goodman, he keeps his shape and he's neat. But he comes at you and I think Ball thought that he's going to be right in front of me to hit.

But sometimes you can factor in the toughness. Yeah. And also, I thought he boxed really well, Goodman, showed him a good intelligence to his work and made Ball work for every success. But then those last few rounds, when Ball relaxed and started throwing bunches in bunches

he was much better and maybe that's what he should have done from the offset yeah I thought was a little bit sort of tense in some of the early rounds was trying too hard almost like he all that to do

was being Nick Ball show up for four or five rounds and the guy would retreat to the ropes he wanted to knock him out I think I understand that that ego is to impress now

is probably bigger than ever before yeah I think and I think that's what it was he thought I got power and I'm strong and he's coming up coming up with weights

as well he's a super abandon weight and I'll bully him and I'll beat him up and he tries to and some little stages he looked like that, but Goodman, except for early in the round, early in the fight where he got stumbled a bit,

never really looked hurt. So he is still, he remains our only Mao world champion, not his best performance, but again, I truly, I think he needs a break. I mean, as much as we've been praising him for having five world title fights, and three of them now have gone the full 12 round distance, one of them will fight with Ray Ford,

last year was incredibly hard. Even the fight which we all thought he won against Ray Vargas, which was a draw, was incredibly hard. And this one was unexpectedly hard. Yeah, I think if anyone needs a few months off, it's him. And a pop a few months off.

I need a few months off, Bell. You need a few months off. You've been globe-chotting as well. I have made, yeah. But we're not getting punched in the face, so we, thank God. No. But, yeah, you're right.

He needs a big rest. He needs a big rest. But the problem, is he has no, there might be a big fight coming up for him possibly, and that might be a fight he can't turn down. So, you know, he won't be afford to that rest, and he'd be foolish not to take it. Yeah, of course, yeah. That's if the Anui fight becomes a possibility again, or... Yeah, well, Newy's going to, he's boxing now in a minute. He's coming up soon. He's got a hard fight of his own.

If that goes successful, then he's going to be boxing just after Christmas in Riyadh. That's the rumor. And then... This is this potential boxing day show that we've all heard so much about. Yeah, 27th, I think. 27th, yeah, which is a sort of like a, not historically, but recently, sort of like a date for Japanese boxing, isn't it? Yeah. So I think that looks like that's going to be likely that's going to happen.

So it would look like it would be Nickball would be the right choice. It's really weird because many, many, many years ago, John Robinson, who formed and ran the WBU, you know, the organisation, Big John, you remember Big John, who at one point was Britain's heaviest man. We used to say fattest man, now we say heaviest man. and he was in the goodness book of records at that time for being that. He used to do a lot of work in Japan and Thailand and they always had shows on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day,

boxing day, because he was always inviting me out to Thailand, always inviting me to Japan for these fights because he had, I think, something like six WBU title fights on Christmas Day in Bangkok. And he could never understand how me with three kids under the age of 10 couldn't get there, but hey-ho, that's the way it worked. So Barry, before we wind up and I get your final, final thoughts on Moses Atama, we mentioned David Adelae earlier on and Philip Hergovich as a potential opponent going forward for Moses Itama.

The fight went 10 rounds. In the eighth round, David Adelae was dropped very heavily. He came back, he stuck his tongue out, he dug his toes into the canvas, and he forced big Philip Hergevich backwards. I thought he won the rest of that round. It might have been the only round that he won, to be honest, even though he'd been dropped. he lost completely. As I mentioned,

Frank Warren wasn't particularly impressed with the lack of action. It was a strange fight because Adam Booth in his corner, and Adam Booth's a master tactician. I can't quite work out what went wrong. I thought he was going to put his foot on the pedal after four or five rounds. The thing with David Allen, you watch his fights, he always

probably waits to, unless he catches him early. Yeah, especially with the jab, and I think that was probably what, but he's up against to go with a good jab and a good long right hand. when you step up levels you can find yourself a little bit lost and I think that's what it was that's all he was he took a gamble here

against Hergovich it was a heavyweight gamble it was a gamble worth taking by the way because if you lose no one you don't get beat up then you learn from it and I don't I mean he took a lot of shots

he did but if he's okay with it if he's not wear and tear from that fight then that's a great something's kind of mad because you got lost I think it's a great learning experience That was going to be my payoff line. Yeah, I think so, because I think you'll know now how to,

and it's not weird because you box all your life, but how to act in those situations, because until you're in those situations, until you've been there, you don't know what you're going to do. And you think you've been in a certain level. You step up a level again, and it's a difference because the guy's better timing, better distance, no, more power,

no, stronger, takes a better shot, all these things, you know what I mean? The eye got cut really early, really badly, by the way, really badly. What a job Abel Sanchez did, by the way, and the second time in the corner with Hergevich, he's the chief trainer doing all the talking and doing the eye. Madness, no third man, no second man.

And he stopped that cut. There were rounds when it didn't believe. It wasn't an issue. It was outrageous. But Hergavish never let him worry him. Because first of all, he was going right into his eye. He never let it bother him. So again, Adelae against someone like a boxing level he's been boxing at,

if that happened to them, they would probably panic and worry him to lose their shape and he would have stopped them. So I think as long as there's no loads of wearance here from that fight, that's a fabulous learning experience for the guy who's boxing at a British level. Well, that's what I said on Five Live. I had absolutely no problem with the defeat at all. Of course, I'd like to have seen David One, although I'm a big Philip Hergevich fan.

David Adelaide will definitely be back a better fighter for that. Philip Hergovich keeps himself in contention. He's just underneath that top four or five. He's in front of about 15 others, and it's a really fantastic division. So, Barry, if I called you up, tomorrow or Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday and said, have you heard,

it's going to be Moses Atama against Xilay Zhang? What would you say? Or would you say, no, that's not the fight I want. The fight I want next to Moses Atama is filling the rest of the sentence. Come on, bro, you're under pressure. Whoever you said was in front of him, I would say, oh, I'd look forward to that.

That's what I would. I might think, this surling is in his career, there's potential worry there that it can ruin his career. especially for a young man if he gets crumbled by somebody big and strong or gets totally foxed on our boxed by all of the sound of the

music but we're living in a boxing world now but everything fantasy is reality I've said that before but it's true and I just think no I mean he's not the first guy to do it he's not the first Cassius K went up being sunny Liston

and Cassius K was brilliant but Sunny Liston people forget all ferociously and talented how scary he was And I were talented, he was listed. And he beat him, and he beat him well. And you win the better penny on in doing that, see? So it can be done.

I'm not saying he's the next alley. But it could be done. But it could be done. So whoever's in front of him, I'm looking forward to it. But I mean, if you want to manage him for longevity, just on the safe side, there's big enough fights, exciting enough fights to market him, maybe giving the experience in the experience.

needs, though I've got a feeling amongst of him won because he's that good to get him to the top. Barry, it's been a week of golf and sheeshire and knockouts and it's been a friendly week and it was a vicious end to a fight. Nick Bulls kept his title David Adelaide's lost

and as for Moses Atama there were still a lot of unanswered questions but we got the answer to one or two tonight. Dillion White he may sail off into the boxing sunset. For Big Moses we were calling him the best prospect in heavyweight boxing, the best prospect in boxing.

The new prince of boxing might be the thing. Not quite the king yet, but the prince. I'm Steve Bunce, and this has been Five Live Boxing. We are back with the Fantasy 606 podcast. Whoa, well, Chris, I've got to stop you there. We have changed our name this season to the FPL podcast from BBC Sports. All you need to do is search for FPL, and if you already subscribe to our podcast, you don't need to do anything at all.

guess what the code to join the BBC Sport League is? Is it 5E? It's BBC FPL. Oh yeah. Come and play the game with us as we continue to teach Chris about fantasy Premier League. The FPL podcast from BBC Sports. Listen on BBC Sounds.