5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Jack’s Back on Track

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Richie Woodhall joins Buncey after Jack Catterall outpointed Harlem Eubank by technical decision in a one-sided contest in Manchester. Both Catterall and his promoter, Eddie Hearn, share their thoughts on the fight. Plus, they hear from Leo Atang, Joe Cordina, Skye Nicolson and Pat Brown, who all fought on the undercard.

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That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash POD C-A-S-T. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is five live boxing. The MEN, the Manchester Arena, whatever you want to call it, the 9X. Hey, I know what it's really cool, but I'm just going to call it that enormous. arena where we've been coming to fights for 26, 25 years. Tonight it was Jack Catchell, local lad from Chorley against Harlem, Ubank. Not a local lad. He's from Brighton. Also on the

bill, some local talent. Pat Brown was on the bill at a young heavyweight Leo Attang and Joe Caldina and Sky Nicholson both coming back from losing their world titles in fights. I was gathered at ringside with about 10,000 people, my kind of boxing night in my kind of Boxing City. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Life Boxing. Now when you have a night like that with world champions returning at different weights and young kids making their debuts and blood and guts and I mean blood and guts all over the place and a late night you need to go somewhere quiet at the end of that night. So I've managed to blag through the security, come back in here into one of the dressing rooms. There's some old

bandages here. I've no idea who's been wearing them. There's a dirty old soaking wet towel down there. There's loads of empty bottles of water. There's a little bit of blood over there. All of the bins. There must have been a nice gang in here because all of the bins are full of the water cans and the water bottles, whereas generally they'd just

be all thrown around the floor. So I'm sitting here with Ritchie Woodall. It's about midnight. We're going to try and go through and make sense of what happened tonight. Not all of the fights, but half a dozen of them. Rich, first of all, it's nice and calm in here. If we turn the lights down a little bit

I put a bit of Luf of Vandross It would be like a chill room, wouldn't it? Oh, mate, I'll be flat out I know, you look like you're close to that now Jack Catchell and Harlem Eubank was an odd fight. It didn't quite work. There was intensity, don't get me wrong and there was amazing concentration from the two of them.

There was a lot of physical movement from Harlem Eubank. It didn't quite work. It was stopped after one second of the seventh round. That's the way it worked. Both guys had sustained terrible cuts in the sixth round. Harlem Eubank to his left eyebrow, which was bad, but Jack Cattrell's cut across his right eyebrow. We'll hear from Jack in a moment was far worse.

There was a bit of confusion in the ring, a bit of chaos. I was with you in the counterposition with Ronald McIntosh. What was your gut reaction at the end of that six round when they both went back to their respective corners, their faces covered in blood from their eyebrows? Well, I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before he was going to be stopped, because I'd seen the cut. As soon as it happened, he was sort of facing our position. Looking at us, actually, yeah.

And I could see the blood literally pouring, starting to pour, started to spit out of the cut itself. He was dabbing it within one second. Oh, within seconds. So he knew it was bad. You don't see boxers do that really. You could tell he was a problem to him because the blood obviously went into his eyes straight away. and then he's trying to just pour it away. So it was a...

And he backed off. It backed off. Listen, it was a terrible cut. So I thought straight away, this isn't going to last long. Ubank's cut was a few seconds before. Yes, it was, yes. And it didn't look as bad as Caterall's cuts. I think it was bad.

I just think that Cattrell's cut might be one of those all-time bad right eye eyebrow cuts. Yeah, that bleeds instantly and it starts to pour. Whereas I've seen Eubanks Cuts afterwards, and yes, you're quite... right, it is a bad cut, but it didn't pour as much as catrules, really. And so straight away, my initial reaction was this isn't going to last long. What they're going to do now, if it comes out for the next round, is Catrtle? Is Catrtle? Because they would have told Catrall, this isn't a nice to cut. This is going to be stopped pretty soon.

You've got to either stop him, because if they say that it was caused by a punch, then they were going to be in trouble, you see. But it had gone enough rounds that if it was stopped because of an accidental clash, heads and it was both clashes of heads. But then we've seen this before, Steve, where you see a cut caused by the head, but then he's worsened by a punch. And we've seen, we've seen then contest stopped and they say it was a punch, but it was. The punster did the damage.

Yeah, it was the original damage. It was a, it was a head clash. Originally. So, and so, so basically, that was my fear. No, no, no. Bob Williams, a referee goes to both corners, speaks to both corners. It's unclear. Maybe we'll get a bit of clarity on that.

In fact, I've got a bit of clarity, and I'll share with you in a moment. Unclear exactly what happens, but it is stopped at that point. And what that means is, because it's gone past the four rounds, is that we add up the scores. So the scores of the completed rounds. And the seventh round, this is the bizarre thing. The seventh round is counted. Right.

Yeah, that's why it's 69. It's really bizarre. And the seventh round has scored a draw. Right. Because even though it didn't happen, so the fight was stopped at one second of the seventh round. Right. But the round is, because you think about it,

because it's 69, you look at it. Did the bell go then for the... Yeah, the bell sound. There's a lot of chaos, don't it? It's real mayhem. The two men,

the two boxes, Eubank and Katrell, in the middle of the ring, separated by four foot. I thought they were going to start fighting. And I did. And then all of a sudden, then Bob Williams,

he goes over to, and leans out of the ring and to speak to somebody, an official, and then he comes back and just waves his hands. So it was a, yeah,

it was a bizarre. sort of ending. So it goes to the scorecards. I say that that's that seventh round, the round that only last one second, becomes a draw. So the score cards are 6966, 6966 and 6965.

So basically, all of the completed rounds, Jack Cattrell had won the previous six rounds. The one round he doesn't win is the draw round, which would have made it. Had he won that round, it would have said 70. It's all quite straightforward. And that's when it gets a little bit confusing,

because we're not quite sure who was looking to have it stopped and how it was stopped. Bob line is, it was stopped, and the right man won. Ubank thought he'd done enough. I didn't. I thought cash would have done enough. But it was a fight where they both cancelled each other out with Peter Lerichie. Yeah, it was an awful fight to be quite on.

It wasn't nice on the eye to watch. One of the problems that Ubank had, a typical problem that a lot of orthodox boxes have against the Southpaw is that he was moving the wrong direction for a start off. He was moving off to his right, which means he was walking. onto the left-hand of catcher off too many times. And that, to me, he was doing that straight away,

which confused me a little bit, because I thought in his preparation, surely he would have been moving more to his left, away from the back hand of his opponent. And he was walking on to that. So that confused me a little bit. But he just showed signs that of basic signs of an orthodox boxer really struggling

with the Southport style in front of him. He neglected his jab from the first bell. You know, Steve, I often say to him, people about a jab. The jab is not only a point scored, but what it does in certain situations, in those type of situations, it measures the distance and gap. So you can be throwing a jab, which isn't it in the target, but what you're actually basically doing is gauging the distance between yourself and your appraudence.

And he's not working whilst he's got a jab coming at his fist, gloves or chin. You've got an obstacle in front of him, which is your jab. He's got to sort that out. But what you're doing is you're then edging closer. You're measuring the distance to the target. And then you're launching the attack. when you get close enough. U-Bank didn't do that at all,

which really, really surprised me. So he looked like this box, it was a bundle of energy. He was absolutely overflowing with energy, Eubank was. He really was. You could see his old body was rippled and he was eager to get,

literally to get stuck in. But he couldn't find a way to get stuck in because he was basically failing in basic areas in terms of leading with that lead hand. It wasn't just the Southport, he's a really good Southpah. When he wants to be awkward, he wants to be effective,

when he wants to just counter, when he wants to use faint, he's really good. You know, catch all in full flow is a really hard fighter to be. And I thought in the first couple of rounds, especially, Eubank wasn't quite sure what was going on.

I know he's had 21 fights, and he's handled everybody handily, suddenly he's with a man that just wasn't doing, wasn't doing what he expected. And you must have had that rich at some point. In some point in your career, you're at a tournament somewhere, and the guy's doing stuff that no one's done yet.

Yeah, that's right. You know, why can't you hit him with that jab? Because you'd hit 300 other guys with that jab. And that was a little bit how I felt about Harlem tonight. I just felt that he realized in the first couple of rounds, ah, this is tricky tonight. Something is not quite right here. And I can't figure it.

I can't work, I thought he was thinking, I can't really work him out. And it's not going my way. Okay, it may in the, it may turn around later in the fight. But it wasn't turning around. for him because he was making the basic errors of not leading with the lead hand, moving the wrong direction, starting the attack from too far out, falling in, loads of stuff. And yet he looked like, like I said, he was ready to explode in terms of his energy.

But he kept doing the same things again and again and again. He wasn't getting any better. Well, there was certainly enough wrong with his condition. I jumped up in the ring at the end of it, and it was a bit chaotic up there, and you and Ronald were still doing the live broadcast on Five Live, and I was listening in the ring. And it was chaos in the ring, Rich. when it had been resolved it was going to scorecards. People are still debating and some people weren't sure if Harlem had done enough. But that can happen in a corner.

They can, you know, a corner can watch a fighter. Smart men in a corner can watch a fighter. They can see him lose around, but he'll land one big shot and they're convinced. You know, that happens. I would find it difficult to believe, Steve. How anyone in that corner could think that you won that was one in the fight?

Listen, I understand what you say. I'm on your side. Because it was a really odd fight. because it was a competitive fight that wasn't competitive. It was a hard fight that wasn't hard. The one thing that was there was concentration, and you could really sense that. Anyway, I jumped up in the ring to speak to Jack Cattrow,

and I'm going to assure you it was a particularly nasty cut. And I also spoke to any Hurd once I'd finished talking to Jack Cattle. You know what? You know, I've been on the wrong side of a decision before. I felt like all boxing well were landing the cleaner punches, landing the job, the one-toes. I felt like we were breaking him down. and frustrating not being able to get into the second half

of the fight and really close that gap. I felt like when he got a cut, he ran straight in with the head. Yeah, he said it was accidental, but just frustrating, Steve, I worked hard this camp, wanted to show people the level. Didn't get to do that. I got the decision, but more than anything, back in the wing column now, ready for these big fights.

And it was a frustrating fight. It was a frustrating fight to watch. It looked like a frustrating fight to be involved with. You were starting to measure him with the left cross. That's not a problem. When you got the cut, did you know it was bad, Jack? Because you seem to be dabbing at it straight away. You know what? As soon as I got caught,

I felt like there was a film over the right eye, so immediately I couldn't see. As soon as you got back to the corner, he carried wiped it, could see straight away. I knew it was bad by everyone's reaction. We don't want to look at it really. We don't want to look at it really. No, listen, for the few seconds once you had it,

you were dabbing at it, trying to pull it away. And you don't often see that with fighters. You know, you generally get on with it, but you just couldn't see, you couldn't see at all. As soon as it happened, and it felt like there was a film over the eye. It would run straight into the eye.

I were trying to wipe it out the way so I could see. You're back on track. You're back on track at World's Way. Obviously, it'd be a timeout with the car. Were you feeling okay in there tonight? Did you feel a bit like the old Jack, even though it was an awkward and ugly fight? I felt good.

I knew he wasn't going to be an opponent that stood in front of me and made me look, a million dollars, being able to go through the guess. It was going to be tricky. I felt like I was measuring him. I was landing the one two. There was more snapping my punches. And I felt good in the...

You looked that way. You know what? And I'm gutted. I couldn't go press on and get into the second half for the fight, but we are where we are. Afterwards, I mean, did you speak to the... What did Harlem say? Did you speak to him?

What did you say to him? I'm not for personal. I always respect the opponent. Arlen come here up from London as a way of fighter. I respect him. I'm going to come finish it. I wanted to finish it and send him back down the proper beat up, but couldn't do that tonight.

Maybe the next time. Not against him, but someone else. Steve, we'll do it next time. You know what, Jack? I've got to tell you, mate. He might be 32, but you're looking younger and younger. Thank you very much. I mean that.

I appreciate it. It's all the outdoor swimming like you do, I do it as well. Listen, I keep telling people the secret is the outdoor swimming and a little bit of rakey. Sorts you out. Listen, Jack, it's an absolute pleasure

talking to you and I really mean that. Thanks, son. See you in a minute. Eddie, Eddie, let me just, first of all, you weren't sure at the end, were you? What was happening? I could see from your face.

I felt like they were letting Jack catcher will continue. They went over, they looked at the car which was horrendous, by the way, and it did deserve to be stopped. But they looked to be, Jack got up. I think he was going to continue. And then he went over and the doctor got on the apron from Harlem Eubank's corner.

Had a conversation with the ref. Then the ref went over to the, I think it was Marcus Madonna or the supervisor and had a conversation. I just got in. I said, who's cut are you stopping it for? And he said, yeah, but I just want to know who's cut. And he said, both cuts, which I wasn't quite sure of because I feel like the doctor in this corner actually had a conversation with the corner. I think they wanted to go to the scorecards because I think they thought they might

get a fake. No, but I don't think they were. I thought it's 4-2 or 5-1 but still, I think they felt this could have a best chance here. So I'm not so sure how we are unfolded but I would like a little bit more clarity from the referee. And sometimes we don't get that opportunity because we're not really

allowed to speak to them. I mean, you're not allowed to speak to the ref. No, not talking. The media aren't allowed to speak to the ref, but I wouldn't mind knowing what was the actual process. Did you stop the fight for Jack Catchel's cut? Did you stop it for Harlem, Eubanks Cup? Because when you left Jack Catchel's corner, I don't think you were stopping the fight.

That's really interesting. When you went over there, you decided to stop the fight. So what you're saying, Ed, is that a corner, when they've got a cut, they can talk to it, they can encourage the doctor to stop it. The conversation is, how do you feel? You know, I can't see out the eye. Look, if you're in a fight where you feel like you're up after six rounds, you want the fight to be open.

And at the end of the day, Jack got up, he said, I want to go on. Kerry Kay's got out of the corner. The referee went over to the other corner to inspect Harlem's fight. If he's going to stop the fight because of Jack Catchell's cut, he does it at that point. He doesn't have to go over to Harlem, Eubanks corner. So why did he go over there?

And what was the conversation with the doctor when he did go over there? You can't say, I stopped it because of both cuts, because when you left Jack Catchell's call, he didn't stop the fight. So that's why there was a penny, but it worked okay in the end. And by the way, it was a stink of a car. Yeah, and it was a horrendous. huge cut. Actually, Harlem got cut 10 seconds before and then they

clash heads again and Jack was just starting to find his rhythm starting to land the shots and Harlem was horribly tricky and awkward and skill forward, very difficult to land clean but I think he would have got to him and broke him down in the back half of the fight but that's all she wrote. Just quickly, was there

stuff lined up for Jack in the next three or four months? Because that's gone because of the cut but what's their stuff lined up? Really the stuff is to land a big fire at 147. Right now that Division's Red Hot, Haney, Conor Ben, Brian Garcia, Tiofimo Lopez moving up there, Brian Norman, Boots is moving up to 54, Paddy Donovan is going to fight Lewis Crocker for the World World to Weight title, Giyosov's going to get a shot at the vacant title. So it's everything to play for at 147, and Jack's going to be in that mix.

And just quickly, Leo Atang, 18 years of age, one round debut, absolutely fantastic. Pat Brown, I know it's only three fights, I know we've got to pull ourselves back, but he's fighting like a veteran. He's got that feel about him, Medi. Tremendous fight, I mean, you know, two shades of the spectrum of prospects there. Leo Attang, just 18. Everyone's talking about him is the next Anthony Joshua. It's a long way to go, but he's an exceptional talent. But Pat Brown's the real deal now. I really feel like he beats most cruiser weights at domestic level now. You know what I was saying, you know, the likes of him against Vidal Riley, and particularly

like an Alloys. He'd fill this place against Allies for the British Cruiserweight title. Pat Brown is going to provide British boxing with some huge knights, particularly in Manchester. and I believe he's a world champion in the waiting. You can hear from Jack Cattrell's voice there, how disappointed he was, but at the same time relieved, as he said, back in the win column, Steve. And that's the most important thing, isn't it? I know he's got a bad eye, it's going to keep him out for a few months, but he's back in the win column.

You know, at the end of the day, he lost his previous fight to Arnold Barbosa in a close fight on home soil, and he had to get a win tonight, in my opinion, he had to win. Because he's getting to an age now, and the experience that he's got, that he couldn't really afford to lose, in my opinion, he had to win it, Steve, so he won the fight, that's the main thing,

it wasn't a great fight, but even from him hearing him there, he felt that he was picking him off with the jab, landing the odd one, two. It was probably going Jack's way in a sort of crazy sort of way, although it wasn't a great fight. But again, he was proving awkward

and Eubank couldn't work him out, and Eubank was making mistakes. And the one thing Jack loves more than anything, is when you make mistakes. He pries on that. You force it. You make mistakes. He'll box your ears.

He preys on that, Steve. He's got great reactions, great time, and great distance. But even Jack was struggling a bit tonight. But, you know, what he was getting to him, and all fairness, all arguments about whether we would have got to him or not, don't count. The bottom line is it finished after one second and a seventh round.

And quite rightly, Jack Catchell was named the winner. What did, I mean, Catchwell, Eddie talked there you heard, Eddie mentioned in every single one of the world to waits and all the potential fights that might happen in the next five or six months. Catchall would just be, you know, he'll just be on the periphery. He's going to be out for a while of a cut like that. Oh, absolutely. Did you ever have to have plastic surgery on a cut?

Because that's what it'll have in total. No, I had two or three cuts on me eyes, mainly against smaller opponents who came up with the head because they came down. I just got entangled. And then literally, they were head butts, but they were from smaller opponents who were coming up literally from a crouched position. And so the cuts that I had on both eyes were a bit like a Harry Potter cut. It's a jagged cut like a streak of lightning type of thing.

I had two or three. Don't get carried away, Rich. I mean, a little cup would have been a streak of lightning out of it. Richie had a streak of lightning cut. But you've invented a cut. That type of cut rather than one that's going across the eye. Stitches, stitches or paper stitches? I've had stitches, yeah.

And what's that light? In fact, do you know what, Steve? Go on. I had stitches when my wife gave birth to our first child, right, and I fought, and I came back to the hospital, and I said to it, I said, So you left it in the hospital, you went on. I went and fought. I came back, I said, look, I've had four stitches in my eye.

She just looked at me, mate, and, well, I can't repeat what she said. And you know what, I can guess what she said, yeah. Let's put this way, four stitches, she wasn't impressed. No one bit. We'll leave her now. We won't go down that route, but I'm telling you now, She was not impressed with the four stitches. What about the, we mentioned there,

we touched on there, the fact that Cattrell was dabbing on it straight away. And you heard him. He said, Steve, it was a coat. I couldn't see it. Once Kerry Kay's in the corner had sorted it out to come out for the seventh round, which Jack wanted to do. Let's get that absolutely right. And then maybe this may rumble on.

I don't think it should rumble on. Let's just forget about it. Let's not make a big issue of what happened in the ring and a bit of confusion. That can happen. We're all human beings. The bottom line is the right man one. But Rich, you heard. You heard Catulette saying, I couldn't see.

I just couldn't see. That's why I was dabbing at it, and he backed off. Did your cuts get into your aisle where they'd be handled? Was it Mancini? Denny Mancini. So you had a bit of an ace. You had a bit of a giant. Yeah, it was a brilliant, good's man.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember getting cut against a kid called Horace Fleary, who was a decent journey from Huddersfield. Formerly in the army? Yes, that's right, yeah. And tough guy. Tough man. He took me eight rounds for the first time when I got cut.

And I remember coming back at the end of round four, I think. it was and I knew I'd got cut and Denny Mancini's calm as anything he said don't worry about the cut the cut's okay because obviously as a fighter you worry but if you feel it going into your eye how bad is it and I said I knew it

was bad there you go and he he explained and he says he felt it like a film over his eyes couldn't see Steve so I've never had it that bad but I've had blood trickle into my eye and Denny Mancine seen the late great Denny Mancini said to me real calm voice

don't worry, the cut will be okay. That's all he said to me. Because it is easy to panic at that moment, isn't it? Yeah. You're suddenly feeling blood. You're suddenly feeling blood. It's coming down on your eyebrow. And you know what he said as well?

My dad actually, my dad went to me, just keep it long now. Yeah. Just box it rain. Keep it long. Don't get involved. And I did. And you did. Yeah, in all fairness, Fritz, if there was one man I would back to win a fight with a cut for five or six rounds, it would be you.

Because you're just going to keep it long. And keep it sensible. So Jack Cattrell's going to be sidelined for a while. There's all those fights. Long time you'll be out. And because of this history, the Josh Taylor fights, and it's just history's profile, he'll get a good fight, and so he should.

What does Harlem-Ubank do now? Oh, that's a great question. You know what? It was a disappointing night for Harlem, Eubank, but deep down he would be so disappointed. He'd be disappointed in two or three ways. I think he'd be disappointed that he couldn't suss out the start. Deep down, you'll know that he couldn't suss his style out,

and it wasn't going his way. I think he'd be disappointed there. He'll be disappointed that he looked so fit and ready for the fight, and yet it just didn't happen, and he wasn't able to express himself. But the event got him a little bit rich. Oh, 100% Steve, that's the other thing, the point I would like to make. I thought the whole occasion got to Harlem Ubank. He looked a million dollars walking to the ring.

But when the bell went... There's no shame in it, is there? Pardon? There's no shame in that. No, not at all. Not at all. I just thought he looked very, very tense right from the opening bell, and that's when you...

When you're nervous in a fight like that, you can be a little bit tense. And he probably took him two or three rounds to actually settle down. He was too tense, rushing in too much, wasn't really thinking. Then all of a sudden he went off on one in terms of his movement.

He started skipping around the ring. Again, going the wrong way. He was just trying to work things out. How can I get to this guy? And everything he was trying, it wasn't working. So it was a really disappointed night. can he come back for it most certainly because he's a young 31

he's a young 31 plenty miles left on the clock and I do think with the right matching yes he could eventually I think he could fight for a world site at one day Harlem Eubank I don't think that's necessarily a bold statement I think that's a good statement

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This is Toto Wolf, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to survive. This week on Good Bad billionaire, How Toto Wolf made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Rissy, it was an odd night. The fight itself, the main event was odd. Nice crowd. They got behind Jack. As you know, they would.

There was pantomime booze for Harlem, Ubank. They all seems to be pantomime booze for any boxer called Ubank. Where should we go with the rest of the bill? Because I want to talk about Sky Nichols and having a first fight since losing the world title. I want to talk about Joe Caldina having his first fight since losing the world title. I want to talk about Leo Attang having his first fight as a professional.

I want to talk about Pat Brown. and his one round win in his third fight, it's professional. I'm going to give you the option, Rich, because it's late and because we're in a dirty, stinky dressing room. Which one do you want to start with? I'll tell you which one I'd like to start with, Steve. I'd like to start with someone who I've trained in his Olympic cycle, and I was really pleased with his win tonight

because I thought it was a hard, hard fight for him. And that's Joe Cordina. It was hard 10 rounds. That was a hard 10-round fight. I think it was a 10-round fight that he needed against Jarrett Gonzalez of Mexico. Give us your stats, Rich. I'll give the start.

Listen and this. You're going to love this. Go on, Richie, boy. So I did a bit of homework. Go ahead, son. Jared Gonzalez, he's ranked number 24 in Mexico. At lightweight.

At lightweight. Out of how many? Out of 505 lightweights in Mexico. It's just, I mean, and I looked at our lightweights. We've got 76 lightweights. Which is healthy, which is healthy. Which is a healthy division. They've got 505 lightweights and he's 24.

I'll tell you what, we've got 76. That's probably the most lightweights we've had since the 50s, by the way. Really? Definitely you're in... There you go. Listen, in the 70s, there was only 200 or so boxes, period. Yeah. So, 505 lightweights in Mexico.

And Steve, probably the top 30 of that 505 are probably good enough to fight for a world title. Yeah. So, Jarrod Gonzalez, look young, look fresh. I mean, I thought it was a clear loser, but he made every round competitive for Joe. He wobbled Joe with that brilliant left hook. He got wobbled himself. It looked like we fought after four rounds, I think, or five rounds

that Jarrett might have had enough. Listen, it was a fight where you couldn't get complacent. And occasionally, Cordina did get a little bit complacent. He got a little bit overconfidence. He started to trade with his opponent with a little bit too much and got caught. He got caught with a lovely left hook on the ropes that just momentarily made his left.

sort of go a little bit. So it was a hard night. He's won nearly every round, but he's had to fight for every round to win him. It was, what a hard 10 rounder that was. You won't see many harder 10 rounds than that fight. That's a really good point, yeah. Especially

with one clear winner as well. Yes. So that was Joe Cordena. Back to winning ways. Lost his world, IBF Superferweight title to Anthony Kikachi last year. That's a title that he let to win twice about losing it in the ring, which is a bit odd. He was formerly the British lightweight champion,

few years ago. He's back at Lightway. I didn't go and grab hold of him. No, no, I put my feet up at the end. I sent over Scarfey, as she's known. Alice Scarf, she went over and spoke to Cordina. Joe, how does it feel to have a belt back around your waist? Yeah, it's amazing.

To add another belt to the collection, that's always what we want to do in boxing. But this is at WBO Global. I want the WBO World title. So whether this is WBO, IBF, WVL, WBC, I don't get which one it is. but obviously me winning the WBO global puts me top 15 in a world so if it's the WBO world title next it's it and obviously tonight you fought a very very tall Mexican was that the test you wanted tonight

it's a test I needed there was a three four opponents sent to me and a lot of them were a lot easier than that one and I picked him solely on his punch power because there was nothing to see of him but I couldn't watch him See how good he was, but his punch power, he's 17 knockouts, 30 knockouts at a 17 win, so I knew I had to be switched on. And yeah, so I had to be switched on. I couldn't take my off the ball, even though with a ring bust, I managed to get the job done comfortably, so I was happy. I don't know we just spoke about some belts there you've got in mind,

but any opponents that you want to call out, or you're thinking about next? Whether it is, with the belt holders, you've got, you've got Abdella Mason and Sam Nolks fighting for the WBO. You've got Murataya, the IBF champion. You've got Chikourasievesen and Javonte deavis. Whichever puts me in line to fight for one of them, I'd take any of them.

But I just want to be back in the big fights and big shows. That's what I'm in boxing for. Joe Caldina there talking about that was the fight he needed. And it divided us at ringside. We weren't sure if it was maybe too hard. But with a little bit of reflection in a couple of hours, I'm thinking that was definitely the fight he needed. So I'm going to back Joe Gordina.

I'll choose the next one. I'm going to go with Sky Nicholson. And I tell why I like this one, Rich. She lost the world title to Tiara Brown back in about March in Australia. There was a nothing in it fight. It was a split decision at the end. She had no problem. She dropped back, she dropped down the Super Bantamette.

She was always going to win against Carla Gonzalez. But she looked like a different woman, Sky. She looked more focused. And she nearly enough dropped her. She sent Gonzalez into the ropes. So the referee stopped it in the second round. That was the most aggressive, Sky. I've ever seen in a ring.

Yeah, because normally she likes to sit on that back foot. Make you miss them. Yeah, she's a total counter-puncher, so she boxed a little bit differently tonight, and I liked what I saw. She was fairly aggressive, but at the same time, sometimes she'd go forward, Steve, and then just pull back a little bit,

draw the lead of the opponent, and sometimes she was actually counter-punching on the front foot, a little bit more aggression there, wanted to make a statement, most certainly, and she did at the end of the day. I thought the punches that she finished her opponent off with, Again, was it Carla Gonzalez? I thought she looked really, really good.

She looked spiteful. Yeah. I like that. And I was only a second stoppage, but she fought tonight like she is a woman that has stops at all the time. Anyway, that's good. She's going to stay at Superbantamway. I called up with Sky after the fight.

I actually did a bit of work. Went back to the dressing room and had a chat with Sky Nicholson. I'm back. No, it's good to be back. I needed that. It's been like, it felt like a debut. I don't know if you heard me say, but it felt like I was starting again tonight, starting my career again.

And yeah, I needed to get that one out the way and it feels good to be back. Has it been a really hard time? Or was it just the first month or first few weeks? It was a really hard time for a while there. I had to kind of sit and be very honest with myself and look at everything, right from within, deep within. What went wrong? What was missing? What did I need to fix?

What did I need to change? and it was a big process and there was a lot of tears there was a lot of dark days, loneliness but it needed to be done and I feel like the experience of losing in March forced me to do that because if I just kept winning

I was never going to go that deep and reach my full potential so I needed it. Was there a point or what was the point when you woke, was there a day when you woke over? That's it now. I've done the grieving. I've done the self-analysis. Let's get on with it now. Was there a point?

It was a process. I feel like there were days where I thought I was over it and I was good to go and I was in the gym and everything was great and then there was days I was crying again. I was upset and it was hard and I found it really, really hard to accept because I know I'm so much better than the version of myself that I gave on that night. So for me it was hard to accept because I know I'm so much better. I know I beat that girl and that was the hardest part for me. If I'd given my everything, I'd given my best and that was the best version of me and it just wasn't enough. I think it would have been easier to accept. What was it? I mean, I've talked to you at the time, you said it just wasn't your night. I mean, now you've analysed it a bit longer. Can you put your finger on something? Or was it just a perfect storm of tiny things? Yeah, I think it was a mix of lots of little 1% things that were just missing from my game.

I didn't even know. Add up. Yeah. And it was marginal. Like, if you saw the fight, it was marginal anyway. But it definitely wasn't my night. And if those little 1% were in place, that night would have been a very different story. Those are the Lego bricks? Yeah.

Those are the bricks. Congratulations on that. Thank you. You're back. Superbantam tonight. And forever wait maybe in the future. Who knows you're not finished? I've heard you say,

I'm definitely going to fight a boat. I don't want people thinking the move to 122s instead of 126. All we're doing is opening up more opportunities. Absolutely. And opportunities is what it's all about for you guys. I've got to, if I could ask you a question about next week's lunatic bill in New York. It's just, I mean, you know, even if you're not on it, you've got to love it. It's just a crazy, you know, with Kate it's a great bill.

I'm always going to be an advocate for women's boxing. I'm always going to push women's boxing. Not being involved in the card Doesn't mean I'm not going to be shouting from the rooftops For those amazing girls that are on the card There's great fights on there And it's going to be such a great opportunity for those women It's going to be a huge audience on Netflix

So now shout out to my girls that are on that card I'm rooting for quite a few of them in different fights there You know, they're going to be good Yeah, I've got friends across the board So no, it's going to be a great night of boxing Yeah And it might be the end for Kate, it might not Who knows, who cares?

Who knows? For me, I just, I want to see Katie win I think she deserves to win. To go out that way. But, yeah, I'd love to see that be the end for her, but only Katie knows. Yeah, she's been a giant. You're not bad yourself, but to be honest with you. You're doing your business, aren't you?

I'm doing my bit. I'm doing my bits. I'm trying. See, we've stopped, you know it's, we've stopped all laughing and joking. It's serious now. No, it is. It's serious. Before then, it was all laughing jokes.

Now I'm serious with you, man. Yeah, it's serious now. Good. Yeah. So it suits me. Full focus. I won't put you in neck locks or headlocks or anything. I actually saw a man walking into the coffee shop this morning

and I was like certain it was you. I nearly called out, Big Daddy! But it wasn't me. It wasn't here and I'm glad I didn't call out too because he would have been shocked. Just another fine six foot four inch tan, good looking hunk, was it? That's exactly what it was. Thank you, darling.

So Scott Nicholson, talking a little bit there about next week in New York. We will be in New York Five Live. We'll have podcasts every single day. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday after the the enormous MVP sellout show, Amanda Serrana and Katie Taylor fighting for the third time. It says a very special event and a very special bill. We'll be there on the ground in New York. Okay, Rich, you can choose which one you want to do.

Is it going to be Pat Brown or is it going to be Leo Attang? You know the pair of them. Which one's it going to be? Do you're going to be the cruiserweight or the heavyweight? Let's go. Go on, sir. Young Leo Atang. 18 years of age.

Six foot six. We like him, don't we? We do like him. I liked him up at G.B. I did a couple of training sessions with him up at G.B. I was absolutely gutted. I've got to say,

when he's turning, I didn't even realise he was turning, Steve. Why didn't they just kidnap him? Yeah. Just put him in shackles, kidnap him. To put him in a room,

deprive him asleep, just tell him to change his mind. Six foot six. Can box, can punch. He's exciting. Yeah. He's a big loss to G. but obviously a great game for the pro game

and he's done what he should have done tonight he's got rid of his opponent was it Paranov? Yeah, Paranov from Bulgaria who doesn't get stopped very often Tough tough, tough guy and tried to survive And a good shot she did it as well They weren't wild swings

So I have absolutely no problem We worked him out You know and he didn't just go in there Crash Bang Wall No no no No, no He sort of went about his business, behind his jab, set him up. Is it a smart fighter?

Smart fighter, mate. Yeah, very good. It strikes me as a smart fighter. Very smart boxer indeed. And he's only 18 years of age. Lovely left-ups to the body that he hit him with. I thought it was a great performance. So Leo Atang, earlier this week, Lea Tang was wheeled out.

Matchroom relaunched their logo and then some sort of company ideas, a fancy place in. By marble art in Central Ireland. I went along with Paddy English, the producer. He's been at the F1. all week. I think it's in Monaco. It's up on a roof somewhere in Monaco.

Or maybe it's in Miami. It might even be in Melbourne. I don't know. It's obviously somewhere hot because it doesn't go to ones unless the sun shines out. So Paddy's off somewhere on the 12th floor having a cocktail

right at this very moment in time whilst we were working. But Paddy and I did slip along there and there was this really great moment where Matrum pulled out three heavy weights. Now Barry Hearns's first big fight was at Tottenham on a cold October night and it was Frank Bruno against Joe Bugner.

They pulled out Frank Bruno. Of course, Eddie and Matron really had a great, well, still having a great time with Anthony Joshua. They pulled out Anthony Joshua. And then they pulled out Leo Atang, the future. So it's past, present and future. Fabulous. A nice picture.

A really nice picture. So Leo Atang, anyway, we sent Scarfei, El Scarfo, to go and have a chat with Leo Atang. Oh, Leo. I mean, what a week for you. How are you feeling? It's tremendous. I'm absolutely buzzing.

Just finally get that day out of the way and get it home. I mean, you came out here. I think we've heard it was 600. Yorkies are in it, it's an ice sporting you. How did it feel? Describe that moment. You're coming down for your first professional debut in the Manchester arena as well.

When I walked out, I waited a bit and I thought, I will just send it. And I went out, send everyone. And the feeling I got was unreal. I can't even describe it. And obviously, you're looking up to AJ as well to try and get to that level. What trajectory do you want to go on now?

What trajectory do you want to go on now? Listen, we're looking up to. We're not getting high up on that win. We know we've got a long way to go. We're building, we're progressing, we're taking it slow. We've got a lot of time to physically and mentally mature as a heavy weight and eventually. Don't me wrong, then big fights will come knocking,

but for now we're just building steady and slowly east. So that was Leo Atang. And I'm a big fan of Leo Atang. It's something about him, Mitch, and I'm really pleased you told me that he's a smart fighter. So I'll do Pat Brown, who's his third fight. He boxed a couple of weeks ago. He's a kid that I think really understands the boxing business.

He works the crowd. The crowd love him. People love him. And when he finishes people, the fight, he fought on the Galau Yaffai undercard recently, two weeks ago down in Birmingham Resorts World, the old NEC, and he stopped the guy of a perfect little left-hook to deliver. The Juliocesa Chavez would have been proud of throwing. Again, tonight he was fighting Lewis Oak for Oak.

He did a really good job on him. And I'm a big pet, I know he didn't win in Paris last year. He lost his first fight. He got old man, basically. But I like that brown a lot. Yeah, he boxed brilliant, I thought, tonight, Pat Brown. Obviously, a bit of pressure on him in terms of his hometown. He wanted a home crowd, and he needed to box well.

He wanted to look good. But he did look good. And I said straight from the start, I've watched Lewis Oakford before. Who's a decent kid, you know. I mean, he's better on his record. Yeah, well, he's only had eight contests, and he's won six and lost two. But it's a good mover. And I like to see moving boxers.

moves and thinks about his game. And the way he started off, again, I think he was trying to take the fire out of Pat in that opening round or maybe get through the first couple of rounds. But Pat was on him. And Pat didn't do it recklessly. He moved his feet in position. He used his jab.

He cut the ring off. And what he also did, which really impressed me, he kept that gap between himself and his opponents. He didn't fall in. And then the shots they hit him with, they're what I call judge-friendly. shot Steve because the judge can see them convincingly there's a gap

between you and your opponents and you're hitting, you're smashing him with punches the way he did. I thought it was a great performance from Pat Brown. I really mean that because Louis Oakford is a decent cruise away. Yeah, I thought it was a really impressive performance. Pat Brown would like him. Anyway, Scarfey, Alice Scarf did go and grab

hold of Pat Brown. I mean, Pat, explosive, nasty, clinical are all words that I've heard to describe your fight tonight. We were expecting to come out here and get that first round stoppage? No, I wasn't expecting it to be honest. I never go out there to try and knock anyone out. I just pox to the best of my ability.

If it comes, it comes. And if not, it doesn't come. As long as I get that win, and obviously I rocked him and I jumped on him because I'm not going to let him recover because I know he's a tricky operator. People will look at him and think he ain't this, this and that, but he is.

He's been in there with some good kids. And as I'm Mike Glad as well, how does it feel to come out here and walk down in Manchester Stadium? It's unbelievable, you know, the lights of Ricky at in Krola. We've had some massive Manchester fighters box here. And to tick it off the list now, it's a dream come true. And obviously I bring a good crowd. And they're loving it, I'm loving it, and it's about time on giving back to them more.

And I just mentioned that as well. It's all about giving back. You just tell me about giving back to the amateur. Yeah, my dad runs an amateur boxing club. My other professional coach, Nigel, runs an amateur boxing club. So it's very close to my heart. And I think these kids, you know, they need to see that it really is possible. It's not an impossible.

dream at all, you know. I was just in the gym as a seven-year-old. It doesn't matter how young you are when you start, but you just got to believe in yourself. And a tight turnaround as well for you, because you were only in the ring two weeks ago. How's training being in between that to get ready for tonight? Yeah, obviously I've had to be mindful about injuries and cuts with a fight two weeks ago and then it's straight back into another fight, so I've had to just tick over and not indulging food and just focus on the job. I've got to tell you, Patch, before you go, Steve Bunt is very impressed with your in-the-zone mindset, and they're checking you out over here, thinking, look at him, he's in the zone.

He's still in the zone tonight, thinking you're going to go on a run to get it out your system. Yeah, I'm always in the zone, and then when I go back there, get these off, I'm back to normal then, and I switch off. It's hard to clock in and clock out.

So Pat Brown there, taking our praise. Richie Boy, it's been a long night. It's been a long night and a long and varied night. If I had to ask you for one takeaway from the evening, what would it be and who would it be about? The takeaway? Well, I actually thought the fight of the night, Steve, was the contest between

Equib Fiaz and Alex Murphy I thought that was an absolute cracking 10 rounds at Lightway What a Belton fight One from Olden one from Sawford You could set It was like a small hall fight in front of 10,000 people Been a local pride

Go on son And they really was nip and took all the way It was an absolute belting fight The referee didn't have to part them For a second I didn't think there was a referee No it was unbelievable And obviously you have

I had one guy, Alex Murphy, who's 5 foot 10. He was towering above a quib fias. And it was a strange situation because Alex Murphy was actually moving down from super lightweight, the old lightweight outerweight division, down to lightweight. And a quib fias was moving up from super feather to lightweight. So it was a strange sort of situation. And it showed because when they got into the ring,

Alex Murphy absolutely towered above his opponent. He was a big 5'10, let's play that way. So, you know, and you know what he had to do. He had to keep it long. He had to keep them punches nice and straight. But occasionally he got sucked into that toe-to-to-to-scrap with Fias. And it was a hell of a fight. I actually thought Murphy had enough to win it,

but I said at the end, this could be a draw. It could be one or two rounds either way. And fair play to Fias, I think he nicked a lot of the rounds by looking good at the end of the round. Last 15, 20 seconds. Yes. He won every second. Exactly.

In the 10 second bail. He won every round. He won that. Hey, listen, it was. At the end of every round. So fair play to you. I'm not going to argue with it. No.

Cracking fight. Fight for the knives. And I thought that caught my eye for the night. Ritchie, it's been an absolute pleasure and a delight being ringside with you as it has been and as it is. And it has been for about 25 years now, which is an awful long time. But, Hey, we're not finished yet.

Richie Woodall, thank you very much. It's been a special night here at the AEO Arena in Manchester. Yeah, see, I do know what the place is called. I just put a call at the MEN. That's just the way I am. I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy. Great to hear from Sky. Great to hear from Pat Brown.

Great to hear from young Leo Atta. Great to hear from Eddie Hearn because you could just sense there was a little bit of rawness in Eddie Hearn's voice tonight and Cattrell, you know, absolutely fantastic. And Sky Nicholson, you know what? Yeah, that was good tonight.

She was fighting some real demons and I know the sort of battle she's been through to get here. It happens to everybody when you lose and you don't expect to lose. So it was a special night. Jack Catchell, he'll come back, he'll have half a dozen stitches or maybe more.

And Harlem Newbank, he'll come back, he'll have a few stitches. Who knows, down the line, Anything could happen. Crazier things have happened than a rematch of a fight like that. Manchester, all those nights. Mike Tyson, all those years ago

against Julius Francis. Tyson Fury, David High in big fights. Ricky Hatton, Joe Kowzaki. Oh, some of our greatest fighters, Nassim Hammondon, some of our greatest fighters from the last 25 years have been inside that ring.

It's always a bit special coming to fights in. Now, next week, if you want to talk about special, name drop because I'll be in Madison Square Garden. Next Friday, Madison Square Garden, the Saturday, out in Flushing Meadows at the Louis Armstrong Court watching boxing, two nights of that, it's hard to stay humble. Because how do you stay humble when you've got to talk about being in New York for a whole

week of fights and press conferences and you're going to sit down four foot from the ring and what's Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano in their trilogy? I can't be humble when I'm pushing things. For that. This was all about Manchester. This was all about Jack Catchel. Next week's all about just some of the finest fighters in the world. I'm Steve Bunce, and this has been a very special Five Live boxing. On BBC Sounds, this is sports strangest crimes. From the man who tried to buy cricket. One night, one game, one or take off, 20 US million dollars. The kidnap of a superhorse. It must have been terrifying. Of course it was. How we got through all they go on. An ill-advised errands changing F-1 forever.

It will haunt the people involved for as long as they live. A trillion-dollar takeover, which never took off. Broadsters of this level, they will never stop. The mysterious death of a superstar cyclist. Entering the world, professional cycling was like joining the mafia. And teammates becoming bitter enemies at one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Betrayal, plot. We've gone beyond women's football in France.

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