5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Jake Paul v Anthony Joshua: The Promoters

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

As fight night approaches, Buncey catches up with former two-weight world champion Paulie Malignaggi. They discuss what’s at stake for both fighters and whether Jake Paul stands any chance against AJ. And Jake Paul’s business partner Nakisa Bidarian and AJ’s promoter Eddie Hearn are also on the pod.

This is Five Live Boxing. It was the fight they said would never happen, but now it is happening. Jake Paul against Anthony Joshua. There are no belts, but it is a real fight. But it's a mismatch, you might say. It might be, but it is a real fight. Paul v. Joshua for pride. In Miami, I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing.

So after about a four-week wait, after nine months of I'd like to fight, Anthony Joshua, it now looks like Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua will get in the ring. So I need to sit with somebody and go through things. Now the best way to do that is to get a special guest all week long it's been about different people. Carl Frotch was good, don't get me wrong. Chris

Bill of the Smith was good. No, I needed to go outside of Miami to Pompano Beach to an Italian bar that looks like it was built in Brooklyn and transported here on the back of a truck to speak to Sicilian born. Yeah, don't worry. I never miss that bit out.

Former two-way world champion and a great friend of mine, Pauli, Malinari. And I've made a promise to the producer Paddy that we won't reminisce about our friendship too much, Pauli, because he's getting really annoyed with me becoming self-indulgent. So I'll ask you a little bit more later on.

First of all, how I? I'm allowed to do that. How are you? Buncie, I'm doing great. Always good to see you. Always get catching up with you. And always good to chat some boxing with you as well. Yeah. And this is, well, it's interesting you should say that

because this is divided people this fight. Let me ask, before we ask you for your opinion and we'll talk about the fight, Paulie, what was your first reaction when you heard that Paul and Joshua would be fighting each other? I was a bit mesmerized, I tell you that, because Tank Davis had fallen out and I was thinking they're probably going to get

like a mid-level guy, even fame-wise as a mid-level guy because they're not going to be able to pull into, something as a replacement that would be such a big deal. And when they got Anthony Joshua, I was completely baffled. I said, no way, this fight happened. So my first initial instinct was something's going to happen. There's no way he's going to fight Anthony Joshua.

Because everybody's been waiting for Jake Paul to step up, step up, step up, step up. But this was a step up so large that even people, critics of Jake Paul would have thought it would be way too much. That's not what you would want to see. Well, the critics instantly said, oh, it's a fix. They came out with a conspiracy theory. It's a fix. it's going to be an exhibition, it's going to be this, and the other.

That was my second thought. I thought, maybe it's an exhibition. It's not an official fight. You know, with an exhibition, you know, you can kind of play around and you're not on the hook for having to make it a result. Like the 14-ounce gloves he wore in the Mike Tyson fight and they held back a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I thought, you know, maybe it was like that.

But, yeah, no. And at this point, I'll tell you, I've been around AJ enough in my career. And he's a very serious guy. Yeah. And I don't think AJ is going to take too lightly to any of these antics. Like, I just think he's going to take too lightly to any of these antics. I just think he's going to just get rid of what's in front of him and that's it. Because that's the way AJ's always approached everything.

He's very businesslike. And also, AJ's talking about continuing his boxing career. He's in the rumors for the Josh, for the Fury fight. The most serious rumors for about four years, by the way. Yeah. By the way, Paulie. And also I was hearing that he was going to do a fight with the glory kickboxing heavyweight champion. There was a rumor about that as well.

So he's rumored to be in some serious, more serious fights, more serious events. So for him to look bad in this event, would really turn a lot of people off and it would hurt his promotability in that and negotiation power in those events. So I just think he's going to use this as a sparring session on the way there. Well, he's used an expression.

We're going to hear from Eddie Hearn a bit later on. They're sort of treating this as part of the camp. They were in camp already because there was a suggestion of a secret fight taking place in Saudi a couple of weeks ago. Then there was talk, and there still is talk about a fight in February. So the way Eddie explained it to me,

and we will hear from him in a moment, was that this is kind of just part of the training camp. just broken from wherever they were training. In Spain, it turns out. They've come to Miami, and they've continued, and it's like a little break. It's like to make an awful lot of money. Yeah, usually you're paying the sparring partners, but Andrew Joshua's being paid for this one. Yeah, no one's never been paid as much, yeah, to be a sparring partner in that sense.

So, Pauli, when you say about if it goes wrong or if he looks bad, what has to happen in this fight? And I've jumped ahead a little bit. What has to happen in this fight for, quote, Joshua to look back? Okay. Give me the options. The options. For starters, Jake comes out fighting and throws crazy punches and maybe lands something on the chin. And then Joshua has to at least be hurt. Long shot. And you know he's hurt. Because you'll show it because he's a big lad.

You can hide it like Welter and Welter, but you can't hide it in super air. No matter what, if Joshua can blitz Jake Paul, but if he gets hurt in the process, that would make him look bad. Also, Jake, I'm hearing the ring is going to be pretty big. 2020. So it's big. but it's not outside, by the maximum, but it's big. But if Jake can't track down, I mean, if AJ can't track down Jake right away because Jake is going to be maybe possibly running all over the place. Literally running.

Yeah, and so in that regard, now it becomes a farce. It becomes a clown show. And I think AJ's a serious guy. He doesn't want to be involved with any clown shows, any farces. So that's why for me, the quicker he gets rid of this guy, the less of a chance there is for AJ to be criticized or even look bad or be part of a sort of a farce. Yeah, and there is that option.

if Jake Paul was coming quite light, not his career lightest, of his career lightest is 30 pounds lower, but he's coming at 216 pounds. And Nikisa Bidarian, who we're going to hear from in a moment, told Eddie Hearn that he thought he might come in about 225 pounds. So perhaps they are working on the theory

that they can run, they can move an awful lot. Because talking to, or hearing from Jake Paul at the press conference yesterday, Paulie, one thing that Jake Paul was talking about was, you know, AJ's got no movement, he's got two left feet. Well, AJ's not Larry Holmes or Muhammad Ali, but his movement's not that bad, is it, Paulie?

I wouldn't say so. I think if AJ knows how to cut off the ring, for example, then there's not really a lot. It's not really a lot of places you can go. Even if you don't have to be the fastest guy to cut off the ring. You just have to cut off the ring and your opponent runs out of space, you know? Because, again, I think that it's imperative for AJ to, for it not to dissolve into a farce.

Yes. He has to kind of catch up. No comedy. No comedy bits. He has to kind of just get to him and just put him out of his misery, you know? Because I think the longer you allow this to go, Jake is going to start clowning and running all over the place. If this thing starts going rounds, it's Jake surviving. It's not Jake fighting.

If Jake is fighting, the fight over pretty quick. But if Jake is surviving, then this kind of goes into a farce because I think, I don't know if Jake knows how to disguise the survival. You know, a journeyman knows how to disguise survival. A rookie doesn't know how to disguise survival. So it'll look like legitimately like he's running for his life and surviving. So the longer you let that go on. it will start to fall into the farce and can make AJ look better. Yeah, and one of the things, one of the parts of that that I can see,

and I was talking to Richie Woodle about this, which is really good on the tactical stuff because he works with a GB Olympic team. In fact, he was with AJ, way before AJ won the Olympic gold medal. One of the things that Richie was talking about was that if he does, J-Paul, opens his stance, so suddenly he's even lower. So now he's almost two feet below where AJ's normally punches.

And if he's got his legs really wide in that 22-foot ring and he steps back three foot, suddenly there's seven foot. Then if he does things like sticks out his tongue and things like that. That's the kind of thing that viewers might, sorry, Netflix viewers might like that. Yeah, but it becomes a farce for AJ. It's bad for us, us being boxing people. And it's bad for AJ because, again, he's trying to be taken seriously for bigger events next year. So if you're looking, if this was something you were doing in retirement, okay, but if you're doing this and you're looking as part of your warm up.

Do bigger events next year, then you want to be taken seriously. You would have to mow through this guy like a lawnmower mows grace, right? So if Jake, for example, is getting too low. Yeah. For Jake, for JJ, you just have to lean on him a few times. Lean on him a few times. Lean on him a few times. You wear his legs out in the meantime.

Yeah. And that sort of hurts his ability to stop keep moving. And he is a bit heavier, about 27 pounds heavy. He might be a little bit heavier on the night, but not massive. And he's at 243. He had to come in at under 245, which is not a problem. He was there only a couple of years ago. Because when you're six foot five and a half, six foot six foot six and you're two, fifty two pounds, four or five pounds is nothing.

You know, it's being wrapped up in a blanket a couple of times a day. It's absolutely nothing. At all we do, let's hear from Nikisha Badarian, who is Jake Paul's partner in MVP, most valuable promotions, the promoter of the show. and a man who's been by his side and backing him absolutely all the way. Jake Paul reinvigorated this sport when it was not dying. I never said boxing. I never should say boxing is dying,

but when things were quiet, Jake came in, started fighting, first a YouTuber, then a basketball player, then an MMA wrestler, and everyone was like, what is going on here? And we were doing big numbers, viewership was insane, and I think boxers looked at it and said, this young man is getting more attention than we have.

So everyone started to focus. Then we started to focus. MVP, August of 2021, and the track record speaks for itself. It's been a stunning, it's been a stunning curve. In New York, there was a mention, a chat. I listened back. He just saw there was a half mention about perhaps AJ. He was on a sort of Jake pool list.

Well, that seemed like, well, it seemed odd then. It still seems odd now. When was the point you and Jake sat down, looked at his young and went, you know what? Let's do, AJ. Can you remember the moment? March, Jake put it out in the ether without talking to me about it, never mentioning it to me. and I called him and I said, are you crazy? And he said, no, I can beat this guy.

I said, all right, well, that's great, but let's talk about that in the future. By July, he was convinced that he wanted to do it, and we talked to Matchroom about doing it in March, April of 26. Yep. And when we announced Dervante Davis, my discussion with Eddie Hearn was,

let's wait until after Tank, because if Jake lost the tank, even though it was an exhibition. It wasn't going to happen with the AJ Fight. Exactly, it wouldn't have made sense. By October, I had Jake in a good place to think about AJ in late 2026, 2027. He's like, all right, here's the plan. Once tank fell apart, once we decided to move on from that,

we had a list of fighters, and Jake gravitated towards AJ very quickly. And AJ is still smiling and looking over at you two. You two are smiling and looking back. Jake genuinely believes, doesn't he? He sees flaws or he sees maybe some decline. You're a smart man. You're a smart man. Are you seeing the same decline as him, or are you coming around to that way of thinking?

I think this is the opportune time for Jake Paul to fight Anthony Joshua. Anthony can talk about he needed the time off. He had to refresh, refocus, block everything else out, and just really be about boxing. But I saw him on stage yesterday, and there was times where there was doubt. There was times where he was talking about, well, if I lose, I'll come back a year from now. You look bored. I think there was, he tunes in and out it seems right, because he has earphones on and he might be listening to something. Ariel picked up on that straightaway, yeah, they're not about that.

I think you may have been told by Yellow Boy. Look out for the earpieces. So the truth is Jake 100% knows he's going to win. My perspective is Jake has a shot of winning. I'm not fooling myself to think that Jake Paul is as experienced, as powerful as Anthony Joshua. But I've seen what this young man can do, and he's disrupted an entire sport globally in four years, so much so that he is enemy number one for some of the most powerful people in the sport, right? And that's impactful.

You can't come to golf and spend $10 billion and change stuff. No, PGA still runs that, right? But you can't come into boxing and disrupt. And Jake Paul has done that. So, Pauli, Nekisa there, most of the praise there was how Jake Paul was coming to boxing in such a job. short period of time and has been influential. Certainly the stuff they're doing with the women is incredible. The deals they're putting together with Netflix.

But he did pull back right at the end from saying, look, I think he'll definitely win. What he talks about is I know how he could win, I know he could win. So he's not got that confidence that Jake's got, at least. So at least that's sensible. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily believe that Jake has that confidence either. I think maybe it's a bit of a show, right? But yeah, I think cooler heads prevail, logical heads prevail,

and you think, no, it's no way Jake wins, but it's how does AJ win? Is AJ win looking good? Does Jake make AJ look bad enough to where Jake can be giving credibility? Because this is the kind of fight for Jake. Even if he doesn't win, he can gain credibility. What gives Jake credibility?

Again, landing some shots. Just literally, if you're going to scrape in the bottom of the barrel here, even going a few rounds doesn't necessarily count if you're running for your life. Good point. If he fights and lasts a few rounds, then, okay, you know, you give him credibility. If he's running for his life and lasts a few rounds,

that's not credibility. And that makes both of them look bad, to be honest. Yeah. Jake is, you know, he's calculated in what he does. He doesn't make him false move in his boxing career or his business life. You know, the man, you know, he's a kid. I mean, there's a 28-year-old boy, so he doesn't make mistakes poorly. He knows, he calculates everything. Every single thing he does is planned out. Let me ask you this, on the subject of planned out then, if you got a phone call, as we're sitting here now, 24 hours before the first bell, and it was, the the key to saying, look, there's a problem with Jake's corner team who doesn't want. He's always been a fan of yours Paulie. Can you come down to Miami? Don't use the same taxi we use because it took two and a bit hours. Can you get it a bit

sharpish because we need you in the corner tomorrow night? You're getting in your car, you're driving south. You've got to go because it's proper money. What are you talking to Jake about tonight and what's your day tomorrow and how are you going to get in through the fire? What's your plan? What's your game plan? I think you explain that this is a once in a lifetime

opportunity. The opportunities like this don't come for most people and And when they do come, it's very important to make the most of it. How you make the most of it, I would talk to him about bravery and the fact that only the strong survive and things of that nature and really put him in a mindset to where he comes out fighting. I think the best chance for Jake is not to run for his life

and go a few rounds. That may help him in terms of the casuals because the casuals will just look at how long he lasts and think that that's... But in terms of true fight fans, I think true fight fans will want to see and respect him, even if he lasts less time, if he comes out to win. He has a go and he comes out as a win.

It's almost like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, where the casuals were giving McGregor credit just because he lasted a few 11 rounds, but he fought to survive. You never tried to win that fight. Absolutely, yeah. So if you fight to survive, you'll last a few a little longer, and then the ignorant clowns will give you credit.

But if you want to get credibility with the people that matter, with the people that are in the know, you're going to fight. And what trying involves, a lot of guys that try get knocked out more because they fight to win. And when you fight to win, you put yourself more at risk.

And honestly, with Jake, what is there to lose to go out in a fight? Go out in a blaze of glory. This is your last chat in the dress room before you make that walk to the ring. Yeah, he's a man like you. He bleeds like you. He's not a machine, so on and so forth, you know?

Tomorrow, how do you want to look back on tonight? How do you want to wake up feeling tomorrow, looking back on tonight? Just giving those reminders. Because, again, that AJ is a different level. But if you're trying to motivate Jake, I think these are the things you have to use.

You have to put into his head so that you put him in the right mindset to give it a go. I think the respect comes for Jake if he gives it a go. We got a 22 for a ring. It starts to make me a little suspicious of whether he's going to come out running for his life or if he's going to fight. If he gives it a go, he'll get his respect.

Of course, he could also use a bigger ring. He's a bit lighter for just a bit of extra movement. Not necessarily running. But he doesn't know. enough to do that. Anton was going to say his movement's going to be running. He's not going to understand how to use the ring and still try to win the fight while using movement.

A guy with that, who's that novice, that much of a novice, will either be moving or fighting. He doesn't understand the use of the ring. The nuances, the stuff that you learn for the years. Allow you to use the ring while still trying to win. With him, it's process of either survival or fighting because there's not enough experience. You learn those things, those subtleties are things you learn later. Yeah. So let me ask you this, Paulie.

and if you don't get where I'm going, then I'll refresh your memory. I see it around this table now, is there an evil man around this table? And that means it wouldn't be me, so it could only be you, who was maybe in a similar situation once in a major fight against the Rising Star,

who had an option. He could have made it awkward and tricky and run and made it ugly. You didn't. You stood and delivered a Madison Square Garden against Cotto. Correct? One of your greatest fights.

You didn't win. It's irrelevant. All right? That was unbelievable what you did at that night. Yeah, and again, it's about proving to you yourself what you're made of inside. Yes.

You know, I think that matters. I think that matters for a man. I mean, it should. I don't know how this generation reasons. I'm a different generation, but I think it's always mattered to men and past generations. And I think for Jake, I'd like to believe he has that inner pride, the inner backbone, to a degree to where something like that would matter.

You know, did he overcome his fears? Because you're gonna walk into the ring, your fears are gonna be taken over. Yes, absolutely. You got Anthony Joshua waiting for you inside that ring, you know? So who's not only a former Olympic medal and a former heavyweight champion, but he's also massive, you know? It is a scary proposition that's watch staring across the ring from you.

Scary from ringside. When you look up at AJ, that's a scary proposition when he's in the middle of the ring and face to face with the opponent. In a filled arena that's bloodthirsty. And all fight crowds are bloodthirsty. So, you know, you have to overcome that sense of fear and remind yourself of the sense of achievement. What do you want to be right?

remembered as what do you want this fight to go down as you know you know how people talk about you you know how people talk about your fights yeah do you want to change the perception of the general consensus forever change it forever or yes because that cold will change it for me i was always looked at as a pretty boy who yeah yeah yeah yeah he was worried about his eyebrows and his hair absolutely he was that as a fighter but after that i got the respect okay he is a fighter after all yeah jake has a chance no matter where he goes from here because i i assume he'll continue to fight but jake will be able to shut all the naysayers up if he goes out fighting you and in this fight.

And actually goes for it. You know, let's hear from Eddie Hearn. I call up with Eddie Hearn. I've been seen Eddie Hearn a week, but I called up with him earlier. In fact, just at the way in. And what I wanted to sort of gauge him,

because I've got my opinion on how AJ is this week. I wanted to gauge from him. He's been around AJL all for a long time. How AJ has been this week. Very focused. I mean, as focused as he would be or has been for an elite heavyweight contender. Sure.

An opponent. I mean, and I thought I wouldn't expect anything less of him, you know? At the end of the day, he's taking this fight as seriously and he's prepared as seriously as you can see the shape of him. I think he's in the shape of his career. I think the £245 was probably one of the best things that happened to him. He was sitting there pretty heavy, probably at 260, something like that. Not 2.99, like someone told someone. No, no, no, I told someone who's 2.9. You got to get a few more quid. But, you know, I think it's a little bit of the realms of the unexpected. What does this guy do? How does he

shape up. What is he even doing? You know, what is this confidence all about? I mean, that's the only thing that's going to be impressive about Jake Paul is the confidence and the heart that he's getting in the ring. The skills aren't impressive, in my opinion. But listen, he's improved a lot. He's not an idiot. So we've still got to do a job on him. I mean, it seems to me that they generally, they're banking everything on AJ not being right. He's just his head not being right. Everything's banked on that. Yeah, I think, look, I mean, Jake has. spent most of his career being deluded,

but it's also got him to where he's got to. I think you have to be deluded. But this is different. But this is different. This is boxing. This is the fight game. You can manifest stuff and you can talk things into existence, but you can't overnight become an elite fighter.

It's like me saying I can swim over down to the keys and back again. Because I can do two last night. I can just see it. But I'm not good enough. Physically, I don't have the capabilities. And that's exactly the same as this fight. So for me, the best result for Jake Paul is not getting hurt too badly.

That's, that's, and I hope the same. That's a moral victory in some ways. Because he's either going to get hurt a little bit or hurt a lot. That's basically what's going to happen in this fight. So they're both bad options? Yeah. I mean, I was looking at AJ yesterday, just, thanks just for your time. I was looking at AJ yesterday during when Jake Paul was talking to the press comments.

And it was like AJ we're shaking. He said, I think AJ's a bit bemused by the way in this comment. I get his confidence. But that is part of Jake's. I mean, mentally, he's a strong character because he actually thinks he can win. And I think sometimes AJ's probably looking at him, I mean, I have as well.

I mean, I'm looking at him in the head-to-head yesterday, thinking, I mean, I think he's petrified. Yeah. And I absolutely don't blame him. I saw that on the stage yesterday. And I think when he gets in the ring tomorrow night, he's going to be absolutely petrified, and it will be a case of how many rounds can I survive?

Yeah. Before I, you know. And listen, he may do, he may do, I mean, the whole thing about if this isn't over in the first round, it's a disgrace. Like, he could do two or three rounds just by holding and running. And being short. Yeah.

And not one of getting him. Yeah. So, because he can look after himself. It's not like, forget this YouTuber stuff. He's a professional boxer. And that's been for a long time now. But he's just not a world-class fighter, in my opinion. But he's a decent fighter.

And a decent fighter, as long as I don't get hit clean, might survive two or three rounds. The moment he gets clean, hit clean, it's all over. Yeah, that's when we see what's going to happen. And it could be in the first 30 seconds, or it might take two or three rounds. Finally, Ed, when you're with AJ, you're not sensing any kind of, any,

I mean, I've got a stupid thing to say, he's not got any hostility towards him, as it? Because a lot was made at that. No, but when you stand there in a head-to-head, and he starts kind of, you know. Grabbing your nipple? Yeah, that's not, that's not. Imagine I'm doing that with you now.

As we're talking, I just treating your nickel. Oh, you can do it, Muncie. It might be quite nice. But, you know, he... I thought he was going to go then. Yeah, I thought he was, yeah. But then if you do that, you've lost your rag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, your head's gone. Oh, you can't win either way. So, but trust me, when he does that, he's looking at him going. Don't worry. Yeah, don't worry about this, son. You're getting a place in. Listen, Dennis, if I don't see you out,

all right, mate. Until the fight, see you after the fight. We'll do, thank you. So one of the things from Eddie there was how good he looks at 243 pounds. And I tend to agree it. Lennox Lewis talks about heavy. heavy weights having an optimum weight. And maybe after I go up and down.

AJ's been at this weight. I did a bit of research earlier on. I think he's been at this weight for 18 times or something or 15 times in his career. So it's not like he's had to lose an awful lot of weight. It's not like me asking you when you were well to wait to come in at 139, Paulie, you know, which of course you do for 60 million.

Don't worry about that, yeah. Have it caught off your hands. Who needs your ears? You know what I'm saying? So let's go down to it now. So you've been sacked actually as the corner man. Sorry, you had the job temporarily, but you're now sacked. You're now sitting as a ring side.

It happens. What are you looking for as they both come to the ring? What are you looking for? Then we'll go to the first bell, ding, ding. What happens? I'm looking for, with AJ, I'm looking for the same stoic, stone face look. Beautiful, absolutely. Focused.

Take no prisoners. Thank you. When he has his game face on, that's it. And he has his game face on all the time when he goes to the fight. So I'm looking for the same thing. I'm not looking for AJ to change that. Smiling and laughing and kissing babies on the head. I'm not looking for AJ to change that on its way to the ring for this fight

because then it tells me that his head is somewhere else. but it's the same thing. For Jake, though, for Jake, I think Jake, I think Jake is all the more important to have that stone face and that focus because there's a lot of distractions. Most of the crowd is going to be there for him. And curiosity is more about Jake.

Everybody knows what AJ can do in the ring. What can Jake do in the ring? So I think Jake's, the part of Jake where he has to convince everyone to take him seriously starts with that walkout into the crowd, through that crowd and walk out. And there, you want to start generating opinions. Okay, Jake looks serious.

That's when you're looking at you. That's when you've got him in the eyes at rings and that's what I tend to do at ringside and I've worked with you at ringside and you're getting them, you want to watch them don't take your eyes off them I just want to see what your face is like because if Jake is clowning on the way to the ring

he's trying to distract himself from the reality that awaits him in the ring. Yeah, that's a perfect description of it. So I'm going to ask you, does, if it goes three or four rounds and AJ clubs him eventually, does it hurt AJ in any way, shape or form? I mean, obviously it doesn't hurt him in the pocketbook

in his pocket, but does it, Does it take anything away from what he's achieved so far? It doesn't take anything away regardless. I agree. But I think what it would do is it would take away from his marketability in in bigger fights that he's looking. Because he's looking to do bigger things going forward. He's not done with boxing.

No, he's not. So if he wants people to take the Fury fight seriously or anything else he's going to do inside the ring seriously, then he cannot afford to look bad in this fight because otherwise people will say, oh, he is done. He is shot. What's the point? And if AJ were to clip him really early in the third,

I'm not sure AJ will be looking in the first round. I think he'd be pushing him back with a jab and just trying to get a gauge in a field. Yeah, bullying him before he lets his hands go. Mentally stress him. Absolutely, which could, as you know, a good fighter in front of you, wears you out and he's not even throwing a punch. Especially for a rookie. You're burning so much gasoline all the one.

Absolutely. So AJ can get to him, wear him out without actually hitting him. So once AJ gets in to the second round, would you expect him to try and finish it? this year or is he still being patient? Is there a point when you think, you know what, AJ? I know what you're doing, but come on, man. You've got to put your foot down on a pedal.

Yeah, I think he does try to finish it in the second round. But I also think that if Jake starts running for his life, then we have to see AJ's ability to cut off the ring. It's a little bit of a big ring. You have to cut off the ring. Even if Jake starts running for his life, it's a big ring, but Jake doesn't know how to run and also save energy. So he'll still be burning a lot of gasoline to go to the distance,

but you wind up making him go too many rounds. And that's like I said before. It starts to become a farce if you've got a guy running for his life and Jay can't get to him. That's the key. We've got to avoid that at all costs. And so let's move on. Let's move towards the end. Assuming AJ does catch up to him and does take him out clean.

Does it end fights like this? Because we've had a big run. You know, we obviously had Mike Tyson. I know it was an exhibition against Jake last year. We had Engarnu against both Tyson Fury, which was justification for the lunacy. And then we had Engarnu against AJ, which would. the scary outcome of the lunacy. Does it in any way end these kinds of crossover matches?

I don't think so. I don't think the fights continue to happen. As a matter of fact, depending on the way Jake looks, if Jake fights his way and he gets knocked out, now he's got the respect. No matter who he fights from now on, people can't say, oh, he won't fight anybody. When does he step up?

Because he has stepped up and he toughed it out. If he runs for his life, it really doesn't matter to his fan base. KSI runs for his life in every fight. Yeah, and his fan base is not really a boxing fan base. for his life, I predict he'll come back and fight Andrew Tate next year anyway. And then there's real boxing phase don't care about that fight. That's still his, that's still more so Jake's a crowd of people. And he has a big crowd.

So, before I get your prediction, let me ask you about you. I know you've had a recently had a bare-knuckle fight was in Leeds, if I'm not mistaken. Are you doing more? Because I mean, I thought the first one might have been enough, but you know, you've carried on. What's your story, Paulie? I'm overlooking some options. You know, I felt good. I felt like I had a good rhythm.

and my body felt good in the fight. Still some issues, you know, bare and uncle presents different kind of injuries and a different kind of proposition. But also my boxing, I felt it was pretty sharp, especially at that level. You look sharp, yeah, I agree. So, you know, I may, I am considering doing the title fight

because I'm in position to fight for the BKB title at that weight. So I may do one more and try to fight for the world title at that weight. And I know after the last fight I said, oh, I think I'm done after doing this. But after every fight, you think you say that, and then time passes, up and you're like, goodness, I would

feel really good to win another world title in my life. It would be a BKB world title and not a boxing world title, but it would still be a two-sport world champion, so it would be a nice feather in my head if I could do that. But don't get me wrong. There's exhibitions being thrown my way from terms of glove boxing. Now I'm back in the conversation, so they're coming my way, offers

are coming my way, and people, I'm in the discussion that I had not been in before because people just thought I was moved on and retired. And I turned down a lot of exhibitions before, so people had stopped asking me. And they're all playing them floating around. Yeah, now that they've seen me return, I'm in the conversation with some of these things.

So maybe an exhibition or even maybe a glove boxing slight return because I saw Paciow and I don't think he looked as good as people think he looked. No, no. Barrios is an absolutely maybe the worst world champion I've ever seen in my life, Mario Barrios. So I think that, you know, if there's an opportunity there, maybe for a Paciol fight or something, because that never happened during my career. It was around my weight class.

Maybe there's something, if there's interest, if there's something comes of it. You know, but we'll see. But I would probably have to get a win first. I'm definitely discussing. I would like to do one more year, 2006, but I don't want to just stop off of that because I felt sharp. But then again, if I do more than one more year,

I'm risking getting too old, you know? So, one more year. Paul is not done. So Paul, just in 10 seconds, how does it end in front of 18,000 or 19,000 people in Miami when Jake Paul and AJ clash? How does it end? What's your gut feeling?

I think Jake may try to come out fighting, goes down once, and runs for his life the rest of the time. And that running for his life probably allows him to go three, maybe four rounds. Yeah, I think you might be right. Pauli, I can't tell you how much of a pleasure is. And I've got to tell you, what a place you've uncovered here. This is the most Italian place I've ever been in.

Even Italy, Italian places aren't as Italian as this. This is the most ridiculously Italian place in the world. I love it. I'm here every day. I know you here every day. Last time you took me out from me, it was a Sicilian restaurant in New York. No one spoke any Italian. and only spoke Sicilia, and luckily Pauli does.

That's why I'm whispering. Paulie, it's an absolute pleasure, no delight. Bunchy, thank you. My pleasure. Jake Paul, Anthony Joshua, the fight you never believe what happened is going to happen. You've been with us all week. Stay with us because we will have a pod with all the reaction after the fight. I've been Steve Bunce.

I was in Miami. Now I'm up the coast at a secret Italian location. What a delight has been. Steve Bunce on Five Live Boxing. My name's Steve Bradnell. Mr Manager of Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation.

And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world banter eyes. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's the podcast? Brilliant. Right start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant.

We could completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm, gift at gab. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds.