5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Joshua beaten: The rumours, the fallout, and what comes next?

Episode Date: June 4, 2019

As the dust settles on Anthony Joshua's stunning upset defeat to Andy Ruiz jr., Mike and Steve debate the rumours around Joshua being knocked out in sparring, Joshua's father's apparently angry reaction in the ring after the fight, and what changes he needs to make to get back to the top of the sport.

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Five Live Boxing. And welcome to this special edition of Five Live Boxing with Costello on Bunce in the aftermath of that staggering result at Madison Square Garden at the weekend with Anthony Joshua losing his three versions of the world heavyweight title against Andy Ruiz Jr. And Steve, as is always the case, after the shock, the fallout. Yeah, the fallout. And you know the expression, when the dust settles?

Well, I've got to tell you, there are certain fights in boxing history, and there were certain fights, especially in heavyweight boxing history, when quite simply, Mike, as you know, the dust never settles. And I have a feeling we may have witnessed something in Madison Square Garden on Saturday night in that famous old, ancient and sacred ring

that will never actually be finished. There will be debates continually and constantly in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years about what actually happened during the seven rounds. Yeah, and we had scheduled to produce our next podcast. from Las Vegas next Monday, but so much has been said in the last 48 hours or so that those rumors and issues have to be addressed, Steve,

including whether Anthony Joshua was knocked down, even knocked out in training. He wasn't well, and the stye above his right eye was an indication of something that was more worrying in terms of an illness. And the issue post-fight, where Joshua's dad, Robert, was seen ranting both at Eddie Hearn

and at Eddie Hearn's right-hand man, Frank Smith. So much to deal with. So much to deal with, Mike. and we're not quite sure where to start. You and I had flagged up on the Monday. That's not being after-timers. That's fact-checkable, as they might say, in America. We flagged up the cold, the nasally feel and timber in Joshua's voice early.

And then on the Friday, the Thursday and the Friday, you picked up again on the Stey when you did that exclusive little interview, we were in backstage before the main press conference. Clear signs of some sort of cold, maybe being run down. Not, not let's get this right enough for us to predict the shock that came. And let's start working our way through some of the other suggestions, some of the other rumours. If he was hit on the chin and dropped in sparring, it wouldn't have been the first time he's been hit on the chin and dropped in sparring. He admits to being dropped by David Price before a fight, then he admits to some fairly torrid sessions in the preparation for other fights.

I think it might have been an issue, Steve, as to how close to the fight. he got done. I think I reckon that's part of the issue. That could be the issue and then, but that doesn't instantly equate to him not wanting to fight because he'd be slightly gun-shy. And the reason why it's quite a serious accusation, and that's all it is at the moment. There's no, no box has been put forward. There are five or six in camp. The seriousness of that accusation and people need to be very careful, especially if they're professional people, if they make that on their Twitter or their Instagram or their Facebook, The real seriousness there is was he then checked?

Was he then, was there a medical check then? Was there need for some kind of medical protocol to be put in place? Because I'm assuming everybody in the Joshua business knew about this so-called knockdown. I don't doubt he had torrid sparring sessions. But I've read some stuff from people that are meant to know what they're talking about. And you'll love this, Mike. Evidence of him being knocked down in sparring were the marks on his face. My God.

Are we dealing with imbeciles on? not. Have you ever seen a guy, have you ever looked at a guy and said, oh, you got knocked out last night because I can see a bruise on your cheek? And in addressing those particular rumours, Steve, as you say, taking them one by one, those first two about whether he was knocked down or knocked out in training or he wasn't well. If you look at some of the television footage, which we didn't have access to when we were commentating at the time live at ringside, after the second round, he says to Robert McCracken, why do I feel like this? He still. He still. him straight in the eye and says, why do I feel like this?

If he had a cold, as he had in the buildup to the Alexander Paveckin fight, and of course there was no storm in the aftermath there, because yes, there were problems in the buildup, but he won. So we haven't had this kind of fallout. But if he had a cold, if he had been knocked out badly inspiring, he wouldn't be asking Robert McCracken, why do I feel like this? He would know why he felt like that. So to me, that dismisses those two, not necessarily out of hand, because it depends if there was a knockdown, a knockout, inspiring when it happened.

But he would have known why he was feeling so rough, so early in the fight. You remember something else that you and I talked about on the Monday podcast we put out over a week ago now? We talked about how McCracken and the rest of the team, they'd acknowledge that he was tired, that it had been a grueling, grueling schedule. And what I mean by that, Mike, is, you know, it might sound like a fantasy life. You know, you're living in a glorious apartment in Miami. You've got all of your team around you, your friends around you, all of the nutritionists and all of that stuff. And you're training in a lovely, very private gym.

Let's push that out. And you're swan around town in $70,000 SUVs. But that's a draining procedure to go through if you've never done it before. That gets easier with time. You know, when you train for a marathon and you know about this, Mike, you don't start off running 20, the odd miles. You start off running two miles. And so my gut feeling is that perhaps the whole thing was draining, perhaps the whole five weeks of being in Miami and being in New York. He did something every day in New York. And it's not, you know, it might sound like nothing. Oh, he only did a 30

minute workout. But from his room to the training and then back to his room via food, it's probably about a seven or eight hour day, Mike. And it doesn't matter what you're driving in New York, Steve. It takes forever to get around. And we talked to that to him in the ring in that interview we did in Sheffield we said the best way to negotiate New York unless you're going more than a mile is to just get out and walk put your pull your hood up don't go with 30 guys in the track suit and just walk along and I still maintain that's what perhaps you should do it and I tear for way because that's what Nassim Hamid did in the

garden over 20 years ago and he thought Kevin Kelly he was staying three blocks away the press comments was two blocks this way the gym was two blocks that way and the garden was three blocks that way I don't think that's got in a taxi or a cab. And the other issue, Steve, Robert Joshua, Anthony's father at ringside, ranting at Eddie Hearn first of all, and then later at Frank Smith, Eddie Hearn's right-hand man. Now, there is some footage that shows Joshua intervening, Anthony Joshua intervening and saying, it was me, it was me, dad, it was me dad. Whatever the argument was, was the dad saying the fight shouldn't have gone ahead, but it was Joshua responding saying, it was me, dad, it was me dad.

Now I had to leave New York early on Sunday morning, but you bumped into Robert Joshua. Yeah, I had a chat with him outside the hotel. Jack and I, our producer, Jack, we were wandering around, literally wandering around, we were searching for a couple of people. We went to one of the fight hotels, and I asked him if he wanted to come on air and talk, and he said he did it, and I said, how are things? And he said, they're fine, they're fine, we'll go back and we will,

and worse the effect of, we will rebuild. You know, he'll be back. He was calm then. He was irate on the night. And of course, that lends not credibility. Let's be really careful how we deal with the rumours here, Mike. If there was some kind of crisis of confidence in the buildup and especially in the two hours before the fight,

some people have called it a panic attack. Again, these are just expressions being thrown around. But if he wasn't great, if he wasn't feeling brilliant in the changing room, which would also tie him with what he said to McCracken after round two, then perhaps there was a suggestion, Not a suggestion. Maybe someone did think about whether the fight should take place or not. So perhaps that's what AJ's father was taught.

Perhaps, again, that's what AJ's father was talking about, because that would lend a bit of credibility to AJ's words saying to his dad, no, dad, it was me, it was me, dad. But let's get this clear, Mike. We don't know. That could be a completely out of context. Maybe he was saying that maybe one other alternative, and this is the one I thought of at the time,

was that Mr. Joshua, AJ's father, was berating Frank Smirf and berating Eddie for not stopping the referee from stopping the fight. That was my first impression is that he was turning to them and said, why aren't you screaming the referee? A.J. could continue. So that would also tie in with AJ saying,

no, it was me, Dad, it was me. And what did Robert say to you in the hotel there, you said? All he said was, it's a, He said, we're fine. He used the plural. And it's all about coming back. It's all about rebuilding now. He said nothing about the night before, and he wouldn't be drawn on any of the confrontations.

And what's interesting, Mike, is that, and I didn't see this, because the position from where we were doing the live broadcast on Sunday afternoon, was just slightly around the corner. But minutes after I spoke to AJ's father, Frank Smith did come out. And I grabbed the word with Frank Smith, and he just talked about the same kind of stuff.

Then minutes later, I looked around and AJ's father was still outside the hotel. So I'm assuming that the two of them passed each other. I wasn't there to witness if they, you know, if they spoke to each other or if they shook hands or if they just carried on as though it was normal. But you have to remember, Mike, and you know this better than I do, what happens in a ring, especially after a shock, is chaotic. People regret things they shout and scream. They regret things they do.

Boxes have been known to pick up the source. stall and throw it at the referee. Often promoters and trainers are screaming at referee or screaming out of people at ringside or screaming at officials. Sometimes the trainers are shouting at each other. Loads of crazy things happen within that drama of a fight's conclusion. And sometimes we're just too busy searching for something sinister to not realize that's just what happens.

That's human nature in extreme when a fight like that ends. And there's a search for a scapegoat as well, Steve. I noticed Lennox Lewis has been saying that it's time for Anthony Joshua to change his trainer. He's saying that at some stage you have a third grade teacher and you get to world championship level, you need the university professor. So he's saying that Anthony Joshua should move on from Robert McCracken. And so often it happens, Steve, that when a big shock comes around, it's the trainer who becomes the first casualty.

Well, Lennox would know he was good at chopping and changing his trainers. The moment he went down from Oliver McCourt, Wembley, that night the next morning, his old trainer was gone, a new trainer was in, and that's the brutal reality of our business. If you're looking for scapegoats, if Anthony Joshua was in the scapegoat business, then you'd have to feel your collar being slightly warm if you're Robert McCracken.

But I've got to tell you, I can't, I mean, let's get out there straight away. I'm slightly biased. I've known Robert McCracken. I wrote about Robert McCracken when he was a 15-year-old boxer in the Junior ABA Championships, boxing for Birmingham City with Franco Sullivan in his corner. So I've known Robert a long time. And I can't see where Robert put the foot wrong.

He put in some great sparring partners, varied sparring partners. He put in guys with beast-like size and strength and also fast to make AJ work both ways. He created a great training camp with two loads of sparring with a break in the middle to give AJ the effect that he hadn't been out of the ring for six or seven months. And some of the stuff he was saying between rounds was brilliant. I've got a little note here on my pad in front of me. At the end of the fourth when AJ had taken a deep breath, as had Ruiz, even after that traumatic and traumatic third round,

and he said to him at the end of the fourth, Robert McCracken says, keep on, get your composure and box. It's that simple. And that's perfect. He never overloads his corner work, Robert. And I admire Lennox and I respect Lennox, but I'm not so sure dropping Robert McCracken is any type of solution. What's interesting, Steve?

is how much Anthony Joshua needs a trainer. There are some boxers who get to a certain stage, particularly as world champions, where in the end they work it out for themselves. But you talk there about the end of the fourth round. At the end of the fifth round, Anthony Joshua asked the question, what's he going to do?

To which Rob McCrackham replies, he's going to try to get inside. And then Joshua says, how do I stop him? So needing answers to all of the questions, almost ABC, one, two, three, Stephen. That's why whatever happens here in terms of the trainer is absolutely crucial. But also in looking at the aftermath, Stephen, like you, when it's a shock of this magnitude,

you just wonder, how did you not see it coming? I know we suggested after watching him in the workout in particular that we were impressed by the general makeup of Ruiz and what he looked like, his feet, his fast hands, but we didn't think he was going to win in the way that he did. And I think back, Steve, to one of our earlier podcasts, which was based around our interview with Anthony Joshua in Sheffield. And you remember I just joked with him about time zones and jet lag. In terms of preparation, Anthony, when you travel, as you do a lot, are you a good sleeper? I know this time there will be all sorts of emotions that are completely different, not on holiday, but when you travel. Well, it's going to be scary. Me and Miami.

South Beach. South North Central. Rollerblade, rollerblade Joshua. That's a good idea. So maybe we cut out the running and focus on the rollerblading. Perhaps we don't. No, but that's why we're going out early

because I think we're such a routine here. Going out there, if I would have gone out there a week, two weeks before, I don't think it would have been good for me because I'm such in a routine that anything that disrupts it, you get ill, you get something happens. So it gives me time to kind of adjust,

settle down and then focus on training. I don't want to go out there, train straight away. My immune systems, now I'm tired. I want to get this right. That's the main thing. I want to get it right. And I just want, you know, that was a joke.

I get that was a joke. But I'm just wondering if it was somewhere buried in the subconscious, that because this was a substitute, maybe there was a feeling that it wasn't quite as tougher test as Jarrell Miller would have been. And all of that played into the mind games, which are so, so important at that level. You know what, Mike? You can underestimate, and I talk to with Joshua about this,

that exclusive we got with him after when he finally emerged late at 2 o'clock in the morning on Sunday morning. And I was talking to him about this. You can underestimate a fighter without cutting a single corner in training. So somewhere in Joshua's vast black-track-suited army, and they are neat and snazy, and they are about 40 of them. Somewhere in there, there's a man with a book. And in that book, he details exactly what Joshua's had to eat and exactly how many hours he's had to sleep.

but more than that, he jots down and he keeps a record of everything Joshua's done. How many interval sprints? What weights is used? What he's done with his pulling, with his pushing, what he's done with his actual boxing, sparring. And he may not cut one single corner, Mike. He might do the same thing, 93-minute rounds with seven different sparring partners. He might do the same times running on the beach, dragging a tire with someone on his shoulders. He may do everything the same.

But somewhere in your mind, you're doing it differently. Now, I hate to quote Carl Weathers, okay, aka Apollo Creed. But in Rocky 3, he takes Rocky back to the worst gym in the world, somewhere in South Central Los Angeles. And Rocky's looking at all of these fighters who are fighting like their life depends on it. Because their life does depend on it. And he says, you see that, Rocky? That's what you've got to get back, Rocky.

You've got to get the eye of the tiger. So it doesn't matter what you do, unless you have that. And it's a cliche or no, unless you have the eye of the tiger there. And so that fear factor that you need when you go in against an opponent, perhaps the rest of it becomes almost superficial. And that may have been what was missing. But I can assure you, once Ruiz clipped him several times behind the ear and on the temple in third round, it doesn't matter how many eyes of the tiger he'd had. It makes no difference at that point.

So we're moving on to how he feels from here and how he deals with his future. Steve, we'll talk about potential opponents and how difficult that the road ahead might be. on that score. But you were talking about the eye of the tiger and how he's got to develop this mentality from here on. But what about the question, Steve, of Joshua now being gun shy? I remember Lennox Lewis coming back first time out after that Oliver McCall knockout at Wembley Arena and he definitely looked apprehensive. Understandably so. But, you know, he dismissed the idea of any kind of warm-up fight when it was put to him at the post-fight press conference after this setback. Do you need something? in the way of a keep busy fight next time out to just build up your confidence again. And he almost snapped at the reporter and said, I don't do that. I'm involved in scraps. And I suppose there is an inspiration, if you like, Steve, a precedent.

If you look at Vladimir Klitsko, because I know some have said that this wasn't like a single punch knockout, like Hasim Rachman and the big, you know, the big shock against Lennox Lewis in 2001. Buster Douglas did actually outbox at times, Mike Tyson, in the biggest shock of all in 19. So I suppose it's closer to that. But I was thinking about Vladimir Clitsko and how he was battered, Steve, by Corrie Sanders, the South African in 2003, then tried to come back and was beaten again

inside the distance by LeMont Brewster, the American in 2004. They were both in world title fights. And that constitutes really the first half, if you like, of Vladimir Clitsko's career, certainly up until he became world champion for the first time. In that first half, Steve, he was knocked down 11 times. then not again for a decade. So it can be done.

I mean, I think the key there was that he started working with Emmanuel Stewart, but he was then unbeaten until Tyson Fury out pointed him in 2015. But the knockdowns, 11 of them, Steve, are key, and how he then managed to boxing a different way over the course of the next 10 years to remain unbeaten and to remain upright during all of those fights in between. Now, of course, there was a trainer switch there, Mani Stewart, but it still ties in with the rest of our theories because Mani Stewart was there for the Brewster fight.

That was Mani Stewart's first five of him. And that was when Vlad's career looked over. Let's get this absolutely right. He'd now been done twice, as you say. Lost two back-to-back as good as in world title fights and then had also been on the floor 11 times. At that point, I didn't think there was a Vladimir future, let alone the 10 years of complete dominance and quality

if sometimes safety first that we managed to get. So we now need to find out, and again, let's use a few cliches we're allowed to after another. We need to find out now what AJ's made of. We need to find out now how much desire there is there. We need to find out now if AJ can go somewhere and create and get that, attach himself to that eye of the tiger. Then we need to find out what would need to change, if anything, in the way his life is made up for him to get that. Now, okay, so, so Eddie Hearn hinted on the radio on Sunday, Mike, when you were up in the air. Eddie Hearn hinted that there might be, could be fewer press commitments down the line.

Well, I would argue that perhaps it's the whole commercial side of AJ's life that maybe needs to take a back burner. Maybe what should be in the diary is who's coming into spa, not where he's got to be, to do the latest you go boss catwalk, perhaps, you know, but hey-ho, Who am I to say? You know, I can't afford Hugo, boss. The guy models it on catwalks the world over. So perhaps there's going to be a little bit of that. But it's not as simple as saying, get a new trainer,

change this, change that, get to this gym and hire this Spine. It doesn't work like that. But something's got to be done, Stephen. Something clearly has gone wrong. So, you know, everybody around him has to look up. Somebody once said to me, you know, when he leaves, for example, a hotel room or leaves his home to go somewhere, He has to think very carefully about what t-shirt he's wearing, what trainers he's wearing, what watch he's wearing, what cap he's wearing, what bag he's slung over his shoulder.

All of that plays in to crowding the mind, especially around fight time, when all of his attention should be on the opponent. And this is something that's got to be looked at really carefully, Steve. And whether this great catchphrase of his stay hungry is only a catchphrase, or does it really mean something deep down? after all that he's earned, after all the success, after all the clamour. Look at those good luck messages at the weekend, Steve. That's the kind of impact he's made from Dane Judy Dench and from Rory McElroy, from Harry Kane and from Joe Root and from Ed Sheeran. This is how he's cutting through, but has that blurred his vision for the most important nights of all?

But where does he go from here, Steve, now? Because there surely are going to be some very difficult negotiations ahead because Al Hayman and Premier Boxing champions, who have only just taken over the promotion of Andy Ruiz, now have control of all four World Championship belts because Deontre Wilder was already under their wing. And this is a really seriously difficult situation for everybody on the outside now.

He needs to push for the rematch. Andy Ruiz could get beat by, I don't know, Joseph Parker, Andy Ruiz could get beat by Tyson Fury. Rui Rui's might get beat by Ui Furi. Andy Ruiz could lose to Joe Joyce. Andy Ruiz could lose to Kubrat Puleb. Andy Rui's could lose to Dillion White. If Andy Ruiz, if

he were to lose to any of those five or six, and by the way, most of those fights would be a 50-50 or maybe in his favour, slightly against him. If he were to lose to any of those, then Joshua ends up in some kind of crazy quagmire of confusion and disaster. So, first things

first, let's get the rematch. Well, first things first, let's establish. who's going to be working with him in the future, how many people are going to be there, and then from those people, let's find out quite truthfully whether he feel he's recovered or if he's going to continue his career,

Gunshy. Because getting him with Andy Ruiz again, Gunshy, would be an absolute disaster. Let's assume he recovers and recovers as well as can be expected, stays with McCracken, they get in camp, and sometime in November or December,

they get back in with Ruiz. That's the first thing. I almost can't get myself to work an alternative route, Mike. Because what's the alternative route? He brings in someone who looks half decent on paper, but really is going to fall over after three rounds. And then what?

We're all going to sit around and say he's back. No, let's start being brutally honest here. If he doesn't get Ruiz, that means he's been outmaneuvered. His people have been outmaneuvered by Ruiz's people. And bear in mind, those two armies are at war with each other. Or certainly, they're exchanging vicious exchanges.

So he needs to get Ruiz back in the ring. Otherwise, we're going to go on something which I don't want to see, which would be two fights against guys he can't lose against, where in theory we're all meant to suffer under some kind of ridiculous instant annesia that what

happened in the ring didn't happen. Get Ruiz, get revenge, get the belt back and let's get this show back on the road. What Eddie Hearn was telling me at ringside on Saturday night that the rematch would be next in his mind. There seemed me to be a little bit of confusion, it was

slightly less definite at the press conference, which finally got underway at about 2 a.m. But he said he was looking at the rematch for November, December, somewhere in the UK. But I do wonder, Steve, as well, if somehow down the line this opens the door for

Dillian White to finally get his chance. I was looking at the odds for the rematch Steve. Joshua is 3 to 1 on. Ruiz is 5 to 2. So the bookmakers are convinced that it was Joshua who lost on Saturday night rather than Ruiz winning. If that rematch does come around, Steve, what's the bigger fight coming up potentially in the next six to eight months? Is it Ruiz against Joshua two or Fury

against Wilder two? I can't make my mind up. I've got a feeling it would be Joshua against Ruiz two, Mike, if you want my honest opinion. I really have. That's my gut feeling. That right now, but obviously we're still hot. We're still basically drenched in sweat and blood from being ringside at the garden. So right now, that, that I think is slightly in front of Wilder against Fury. Of course, that could change depending on what happens next week in Las Vegas when Fury fights again first time since that glorious night with Wilder in Los Angeles against Tom Swartz, the German. Let's hope he gets him out of the way in four or five rounds. Stakes a big claim and starts building up to that. White, of course, Dillian White, Mike, just to go back on your point there, he is, if I'm not

mistaken, mandatory with the WBO and they could insist on that happening. Equally, the I could insist on Kubret Pulev, the Bulgarian who's got some legal issues in America to sort out, they could insist on that fight happening. We could find a situation, Mike, and let's get this absolutely clear, where Joshua gets a rematch with Ruiz late this year, and I don't think it'll be in Britain. I think it'll be in America, but that's to be discussed in another pod, and gets a rematch with Ruiz later this year,

and the only thing at stake is the WBA bill. We might have four different different. champions by the end of the year. And we shouldn't forget that circling in the WBO rankings is Olazgana Ousik, who should have made his debut at heavyweight in the United States a couple of weeks ago, but was injured. The WBO have a rule that any champion in a lower weight division can move up and get a shot straight at the champion.

So it could be Ussick against Ruiz, and there'd be plenty who would fancy the Ukrainian to dance his way around Ruiz for 12 rounds and claim a version of the heavyweight title. And then we've got a whole different picture. But just to sum up then, Steve, we are in remarkable times. When we lament, and we have done on the podcast about a glamorous era, a golden era that could have happened, just stop and think for a moment, Steve. Just over the past two years, two years and a month, we've had Anthony Joshua against Vladimir Clitchcoe at Wembley Stadium. We've had Deonté Wilder against Tyson Fury at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. We've now had Anthony Joshua against Andy Ruiz at Madison Square Garden.

So in just about the space of two years, three heavyweight fights that would have lived with credibility in any era may be taking away that glorious 70s. But right the way across the rest of the other 120 years of heavyweight boxing with gloves on, these three fights in a two-year period would stand up in any era. Yeah, 25 months of absolute excellence. And Mike, I know a little bit about the heavyweights, mate, the 60s and the 70s. And you can drop that 25 and a half month period down on any 25 and a half. half-month period. And I tell you, those three fights, they can do their bit. The rumble in the jungle, the fight of the century, and the thriller in Manila,

those three sentinel fights, those three lynchpin, kingpins, keystone fights from the 70s. It's just unfortunate that they happened in some ways because everything gets measured against it. Take those three out of the equation. Drop this 25 or 26 months back on any period. and you're absolutely right. And you know what, Mike, it's been a pleasure

to be six feet away from all of them. Well, whatever happens from here, Steve, we're on our way to Las Vegas for the next episode in this heavyweight story and a chance, I think, to catch up on some kip. Not a chance, Mike. I feel like I've been awake for about seven or eight days. And the reason is, and people would have heard this,

I've got some dietary tips for people like you and I that have to work 24 hours a day. In fact, we try and cram 26 hours into a day. And the dietary tip comes from TikTok, and I'm going to give them another plug. Okay, Nutella, a French toast with banana. People are saying you didn't have that Buncey, so people have gone into TikTok, into TikTok,

taking a picture of the menu and sent it out. In fact, that should become Bunsey's signature dish there. And as for the rest of the stuff that happened in New York, Mike, I'm struggling to sleep now, not because I'm not tired, I desperately need sleep, but boy, oh boy, I'm still trying to process it. It is fascinating, Steve, how as tired as you can be, you still can't sleep because you are just,

buzzing about the result. That's one of the indications of a really special night, isn't it? You can't leave it behind. Yeah, you know what, Mike, we always say this when we sit down when we leave a fight at 1 o'clock in the morning, 2 o'clock in the morning, or 4 o'clock in the morning as we left TikTok, Stone Cold Sober the other day because they closed the booze bar, and we always say the same thing as we walk through Times Square or near Times Square

with the rats were running. Do you remember running in between the people sleeping? And we all looked at each other and we said, wouldn't change this for the world. We've got the greatest job in the world. I know, as I was digging around trying to get a night's sleep that was anywhere near eight hours. I'm not expecting a deluge of sympathy here from a minute. Let us know your feelings as we move on now to Las Vegas and a quiet start to next week. So we want to build that first podcast around what you think.

And many thanks for all of your responses to the work we were doing last week and the podcasts in New York. And we will make a feature of your responses and your feelings about all that's going. going on in the heavyweight division right now as part of that first podcast from Las Vegas next week. So please let us know with iTunes reviews or the email address is Costello and Bunce at BBC.co.co.uk. And that first one will be available in the early hours of Tuesday, the 11th of June UK time, the latest edition of Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce from Las Vegas. See you then. Let's get ready to boxing.