5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Kelly becomes champion as Big Baby loses his lid

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Has there ever been a stranger moment in the ring than Jarrell Miller losing his toupee mid-fight? Stacey Copeland joins Buncey to unpack that bizarre scene, as well as the impressive performances from Josh Kelly and Shakur Stevenson. Kelly claimed his first world title with victory over Bakhram Murtazaliev, while Stevenson made history by becoming a four-weight world champion. Plus, Stacey gives her verdict on Fran Hennessy’s narrow win at the Copper Box.

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turn on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by pocket hose. I'm a mom and a homeowner, so I feel like I'm always outside using a hose for something. And I used to go through a new hose every year because of kings and tangles.

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degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash podcast. This is Five Live Boxing. So a mastercloth in a one-sided fight in New York and drama and fairy towns in a brilliant world title fight in Newcastle. And Fran Hennessy winning a real fight in East London.

That was a weekend. And by the way, a flyer. Two-Pay. Yes, I said a flying toupee. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five-Live Boxing. So I'm joined by Stacey Copeland. Now, Stacey, you and I are opposite ends of the world, or the British boxing world,

on Saturday night. And you were at some fun fights, and I was at a fantastic night in Newcastle, but let's get it right. The only thing we're really bothered about this weekend is the flying toupee. Jarrell Big Baby Miller had a disaster, stuck a toupee on, bit of super glue, whacked off in the third,

round threw it outside the ring and was then called, so I'm told by Fabio Wardley, who passed at the Sky Nicholson, who good sport that she is and former WBC Feverway champion stuck it on her barnet. That's where the pod should end and start, to be honest with you, Stacey. It was absolutely

hilarious and I've seen a video since of Big Baby Miller driving down some road in a convertible car with the hairpiece flapping. It's just absolutely brilliant, isn't it? I mean, that's one of those moments in boxing that's going to last a long time, I think.

But you know what? Fair play to him, because he's taking it in real good spirit and he said afterwards, you can't laugh at yourself, then there's something wrong, and yeah, fair play. And it does have a good sense of humour, as he says, I think as he said in interviews, I'm a comedian. The one thing that really struck me, to be perfectly honest with you, was the first thing I thought, and I don't want to be called

a crybaby, a sports boy here, but I thought it might have all been staged by him. I can't remember his hair. I didn't think he had a lot of hair, but hey-ho, you know, he had those, that's a lot of circle like Frye a tuck. He said they'd been to his mum's in the week and used some ammonia shampoo by accident. Yeah, and it pulled it off. So he had to get one last minute.

So I looked him up. I looked them up on the internet, as they say in your neck of the woods. $6.99 to $547. I didn't have enough time because I was going to come in wearing one and then move out a shop and wear the other one and see if you could guess which one was $500 or quid more. Anyway. But see, I've seen old photos of you and you've had the best barnets on ever. so, you know, undisputed.

Undisputed ban it champion. Listen, how my voice changes. Those were the days, my friend. Those were the days. Anyway, these are the days now. Let's start, if we can, with, because you had a good night, and the Fran Hennessy fight was terrific.

We'll talk about that and the event. But we've got to start. I know there was a massive fight in New York with 21,324, paying inside which, which the promoters are insisting is a Madison Square Garden record since it reopened in 1968.

If that's the truth, that is staggering. That means all of the fights in the 70s, 80s. He had a bit of a quiet spell for 20-odd years, but everything that's ever happened there has fallen underneath that incredible stat. If that's the case, full power to Shakur Stevenson and, of course, for playing his role, Tiafimo Lopez. We'll do that in a second if we get time

because I've obviously got to get dragged away at some point to talk about the two-pay action on other parts of the BBC. That's the way it works. I think they're picking on me because I'm a bald man. That's not here, not there. Josh Kelly, before the fight, and I know you'll tell me the truth, how did you see that fight going with background Murtazali up? How did you see it going?

IBF, super well-to-weight stroke, like middle-weight title, Metro Centre, Newcastle, Saturday night, before the first bell. How did you see it going? Well, it was 23 and 0 with 17 stoppages and much feared. Nasty stoppages. Yeah, exactly. And they have a different mentality, those people from that neck of the world. although I know he's based in California now.

So it was definitely the underdog and everybody knew. But you know, after what Dalton Smith did the week, you're thinking, do you know what? You kind of got belief in British fighters at the minute because we've had some disappointments with obviously fights falling through. But when Dalton Smith did that the other week, you think, do you know what? It can be done again.

So actually, I took a lot of belief from that. Yeah, he was the underdog and it was a big, you know, a tall order. But we know how we can fight. And he just felt, after everything that he's been through, it was going to come together. And he's had a really good run since that difficult time. He's done things the right way

and got himself mentally in the right place. Since he used to lose 14 pounds, on the day of a world to wait to fight. That's what you mean. No wonder he had a bad run. It's amazing. He had a good run when he was losing shifting that much weight. He's had some really tough mental health issues as well

with, you know, chronic hypochondria that he suffered with for a while. And then, you know, after David Avanesean, It was a really tough time for him. He had that break, but you just feel since he's come back is different. It's a different fighter. You know, the weight's not as much of an issue, but mentally in the right place. So, but having said that everything does have to fall into place on the night,

he can have all of that. And one thing can go wrong. It can be one shot, as you well know. So, yeah, I felt it was the underdog, of course. But I just felt there was something about the timing. No, I said, I believe there was something about the timing. And when I sat down and interviewed him on the first, And I've been around a lot of fighters, 48, 68, 70, 90 hours before a fight.

And you know if they're kidding you, if they're trying to make out, they're relaxed. And especially if they're really hyper-nervous or really against it, or really angsting and taking deep breaths in private. But with him, I sat with him. And he might have just been the calmest pre-fight challenger, I think I've ever spoken to at 100 hours notice. He was calm, he was philosophical, he was going through it in, detail outlining what would happen.

He'd done a lot of visualization. And he said to me in the ring at the end of the night and it was all very emotional. He said, Buncee, that's exactly how I envisioned it. I thought I'd be dropped. And then I'd come back and win the last couple of rounds. Well, a couple of judges think that's exactly what he did, which in itself is a great achievement.

And that's how you win a world title. But it was just that, how calm he was and how relaxed he was. And also Adam Booth, who was pivotal in this fight. I want to talk to you about corner work in a moment. He was pivotal in this fight. pivotal in getting Josh through not just the hard rounds, but the desperate rounds. When he went back after being dropped very heavily in the ninth round, it was Adam Booth that got him through the fight.

And I think from about the first or second round on, I was seeing something, I was thinking, you know what? He might just pull this off by movement, by continual movement. And that mental side of it is so, so important. And I think there's a couple of things. One, he talked about signs, you know, he said it felt those signs during the the week. PYT, his ringwalk song was on the registration plate of the taxi and then another taxi

had new on it. It matters. Of course it does. It matters to fight us. Absolutely. And you can look for signs in anything, one way or the other. Bingo. Well said.

It's not going to, not be my week there. Or it is. And that visualization, Troy Williamson talks about it, that it manifested that moment when he beat Callum Simpson before Christmas, it does matter. And you just, and perhaps there's an element that because there was, you know, these enormous hopes from after the, Olympics in 2016 and he had a great start. At those 10 fights and, you know, he was billed as the next big star, the next big thing.

Understandably so, Stacey. He's done the business everywhere and at the Olympics he got done remember by the guy that wins the goal. Let's get that right. And so to then go through what he went through and having that big break and having to really, you know, battle through, you know, mental health problems, serious ones at that, you know, maybe you feel like when you've been there, this you can do. This is the place where you feel comfortable.

This is what you know how to do. And, you know, he has been at a point of being rock bottom. Now he's got this chance. So maybe you see it as this is not like where I was. This isn't that kind of pressure. This is something I can enjoy in a moment to seize. And I'm just so glad he did because after what he's been through, you know, to get there, it's a, you know, a lot of people wouldn't have thought that was possible

after that Avanesean, you know, and look where he is now. And Adam Booth has been fundamental in that by sticking by him. And that's why he was able to get him through them rounds. because it's all right having a coach saying to you, come on, you can do this. But if they haven't done all those hard yards with you and you haven't built up that trust and that relationship, that's when it really counts in that 40 seconds or so

that you've got to make that fighter believe. You can do this and make sure they follow your instructions and what relationship those two have got delighted for both of them. I am too. And Adam had a similar type of relationship with David Hay, where he wouldn't overburden Hay with information in rounds that Hay was winning. But when he had to get his point across,

the first thing Adam did was demand absolute silence in the corner. And in fact, the altercations that happened in that corner at the end of the 9th and the 10th round, because it was very lively. You know, I love looking at a corner during a fight. I don't really like doing anything during the fight, except for watching the corner. Watch the action, watch the corner.

That's when you can tell how a fighter is and how the corner are doing. And if they're overreacting, if they're nervous about the car. Well, Adam Booth was, there was loads of words exchanged. three or four people in the corner. And what Adam Booth told me was that he was telling other people in the corner not to say the things they were saying.

And I think some of the things they were saying is, that's a lovely round, you're walking it, not that expression, there's another expression that we use. You know, you're way in front, you're cruising it. He's easy, you can't miss him. No, no, no, no. That's not what you're doing with a fighter in a fight where it can be turned around.

Murtazale have stopped people late in fights. That's one of his things. And that was the simple thinking going into this fight that after five or six rounds, Kelly might be in front, but Merteselyev would track him down, bash him up and he would be saved even by the referee or even Adam Booth, who's no stranger, to lobbing a towel in. But what Booth did was calm the corner down,

get eye contact with him and just say sensible things. It was so smart that one's it on his behalf, because also he said, and he picked up on something which is a real skill to not get caught up in the moment of it, because your emotions will be part of it as a coach, especially that journey that they've been on. Who could not get caught up in the moment?

I mean, everybody does, it's boxing at the end of the day. It's not like any other sport for getting caught up in the moment. But what he was able to do, and I heard an interview with him afterwards where Adam Booth was saying, the problem is when you are on top and everything is going so, so well, you can just make those little mistakes.

He said, and that's what we did when he got dropped. And that is spot on, that rather than sitting back going, oh, tidy. This is going exactly to the game plan. He's executing everything brilliant. He was cautious that, right, this is where you have to just be a little bit aware

that something can go wrong. Just really, really smart. You know, box and management out, you know, as well as the coaching side. Really great game plan, but kept him in the right place mentally. And Adam most famously did that at the end of the 11th round in Nuremberg,

about 100 years ago. It seems that worked long ago to me. When David A was going into the first, the 12th and final round against the other beast from the East. Nikolai Valuev, 6 foot 13 inches tall, 22 stone. And he met David Hay on the bell to end the 11th round. He met David Hay, almost in the middle of the ring. And he raised his finger and he kept saying to him,

don't you dare, don't you dare, because he knew David Hay fancied the stoppage. But again, you only need to be caught half caught by the Beast from the East, Valuev, and you were out. And he was screaming at him, and he must have spent 20 seconds walking David Hay back to the corner before he sat him down, don't you dare, don't you dare. And there was a little bit of that, I thought with Josh Kelly,

when times were going really well in those middle rounds, after the knockdown when Josh dropped Murtazeliev in the fourth round, and he was calming him down. I'm not saying that Adam Booth won that title, but it was a team effort, that's for sure. You made a really good point when I listened back to your coverage as well, about timing, and you were saying there's certain things that are needed for a British champion, particularly when they're an underdog,

whether it's home or away, to get it over the line. And one of the things you rightly mentioned was that the gap that Merteselli has had since Tim's U, wasn't it? What was that, October, 2024? 2024.

It's a long time. And he just couldn't get his combinations off like we've seen him do before. He did look a bit, what's the right, expression, perhaps a ploddy, a little bit at times. Uncomfortable at times,

timing was bad. Like, it just wasn't clicking for him, like that fluidity or whatever, what just wasn't there. And that's credit to the way that, you know, the game plan and the way that it was executed by Adam Booth and Josh Kelly,

but still, perhaps that did make a difference. And that's why that timing, again, you felt like it was the right timing from both sides. And just to say, before the fight, before we look forward to what Kelly might or might not do next, before the fight, I did talk to Igis Climas, who's manager and also has been involved with just about every single fighter from the Eastern Block

in the last 25 years, the real good ones as well. And Igis said, no, no problem. problem. He's Chechen. No problem. But I'm not saying he looked rusty, but with Kelly's movement and mobility, absolutely, but then part of that might be if Adam Booth was on the line now, he'd say, yeah, but it was, he didn't look right because Kelly didn't let him look right. Exactly. I mean, he used every single inch of the ring, didn't he? Yeah, and the rest.

How was he afterwards, Merteseli, because listening to Overs, Jonathan Overend, of course, he was saying he'd storm straight out of the ring. I mean, I looked at the stats after, not that they mean, you know, because it's all right, landing a punch. It's not always, it depends on what kind of punch, doesn't it? But, you know, he did have the upper hand in terms of punches landed and power punches. But the percentage of... Power punches, my bottom.

The percentage of punches landed went in Kelly's favour. But obviously it was close, but he seemed really angry about it. Was that right? No, listen, I thought the decision was right. Listen to the scores. 113, 113. 115-1-1-1. That's a bit, maybe a round or two.

wide in Kelly's favour. The other one, which was Steve Gray, the British judge, 114, 113. So there's no complaint, there's no disgrace. At the moment, and I've just been talking about this, every single fight that goes 12 round in Great Britain, we have commentators from all over the world on all sorts of social platforms, calling it a disgrace, calling for someone to be sacked forever.

Well, do you know, how about this? And I had a little look this woman, and I couldn't find it. In a 12-round world title fight, I can't find a 12th round where the three judges score it three different ways. Yeah. And it could have changed the result, couldn't it?

Exactly. So if ever there's an indication of how tight and close a fight is, in the final round, one judge went, obviously, for Kelly. One judge went for the Chechen king, Mr. Murtazalev, and the other judge, Steve Gray, went even 10-10. Now, if ever there's a case for pointing out to all the people that scream scandal and robbery every time a fight goes to the judges, there's the perfect point.

That was that type of fight. You know what? If we were sitting here today and Murtazalev had won a split decision, I would have said, you know what? He got away with one. He could have gone the other way, but it wasn't a robbery.

Josh Kelly wouldn't have been robbed. Because you were actually there and saw every single second of every round. So that's why I wanted your thoughts on that because, you know, what people say isn't always... And fights can be incredibly close, but not necessarily will be reflected by that because you have to go one way or the other.

So thanks to that. So going forward... Going forward, he wants to fight the stadium of light, which obviously makes a lot of sense. There are all sorts of people out there. He's got various other champions at his weight, light, middle, super welter, whatever you want to call it. And one man I thought would be a guy would be Connor Ben. Although Conner Ben, we're going to talk about it in a second, was called out by Shakur Stevenson. After Shakur Stevenson won his, how ridiculous is that?

Connor Ben has never won a world title. Sure, he's incredibly popular and incredibly exciting. and he's standing shoulder to shoulder with Dimitri Bivel, Alexander Usik, Terrence Crawford. That's where he operates now. So full power to Shakur for seeing where the cash cow in the division could be.

Anyway, that fight is probably not going to happen. I wonder if Conor Ben would fancy stadium alike, 50 or000 people, staying in the middle, between middleweight and world to weight, where he says your campaign at 154. What do you think about that, Slice? Well, I mean, if it's going to be at the stadium alike,

that's the one that's going to really sell out, isn't it? Because if you look at, I mean, it was, I mean, reportedly that it agreed to fight Ennis after this, should he come through it. Now that doesn't necessarily mean, till things are signed.

He pulled that before Ennis, apparently. Yeah, exactly. So it's, you know, so you never know, but, I mean, he's 35 and isn't he with, what's got, 31 stoppages or whatever? It's a big number anyway. So perhaps that's not going to be happening next, but that has been talked about. But again, stadium alight, I don't necessarily think that's going to be,

unless boxing fans would love that. Casuals, I'm not so sure. Then you look at the other WBA and WBO current champions. Basparo, the Germany, who just boxed Xander Zayas this weekend, the Puerto Rican. And lost his version of the title, yeah. Yeah, lost it. So either of those names are not a big pull here. So if you're talking about filling the stadium alight,

then it's not necessarily, you know, the top against the top, let's be honest, belts wise or otherwise, but it would be the one that would sell. Yeah, a nice fun fight. Well, that's Josh Kelly. Congratulations to him. Now the IBF Super World War II champion, one of six current British champions. And the second boxer under the Matchroom Stable, who started their boxing career from amateur to pro with Matrum

to progress to a world title in one month. Again, I'm going to tell you now, without having to check, that's never happened before in British boxing inside a 31 day or a calendar month. It's never happened before. Take it from me, trust me. So before we go to you, and obviously the top of the bill there was a women's fight,

I've got to ask you about a woman that I called the female Ernie Shavers, a woman that's, we talked about knocking people out for fun. However, on Saturday night, Elifner Turhan did retain her title. It was a split decision over Taylor. Genson, who couldn't believe her luck after three rounds when she wasn't unconscious. I've got to tell you, it was almost like a spoof.

It was almost like a spoof. I couldn't believe... I know she's raw. I've seen her a couple of times, but she generally connects. She close to went the whole ten rounds and connected about five or six times. Fortunately for her, Genson only connected four or five times.

If Genson had shown a little bit of confidence stage, she could have done it. Were you shocked at how poor, how rough and how crude Turhan looked? Do you know, sometimes it's a bit of a bit of, like Deontay Wilder, isn't it? Bingo. You know, sometimes it doesn't look great

or textbook, let's say, technically, but then just can absolutely iron somebody out. And that's a bit what she's like. She doesn't look great doing the basics, let's be honest, and, you know, the fundamentals or whatever, however people want to describe them. But if she connects, you've had it,

and we saw what she did to Beatrice Ferreira who got caught in the corner and got absolutely... I saw that close and personal, in a small arena where you could hear every punch and it was unpleasant listening to it. She gets in some right scraps

but people don't do that to her. So yeah, I think it's just one of those but also it's what makes her exciting, isn't it? Obviously if you get to the end of a fight it might not be ones that you watch back because they're not technically pretty on the eye but the whole time you're watching it you know any second it could change.

It makes an exciting fighter to have that kind of power. And we have, as you said, we have seen Wilder look absolutely abyssey, for nine rounds and then suddenly knock someone spark out with one shot in the tenth. So that's, we can't, we can't say we don't like Devon Haney because he doesn't engage and then say we don't like Aleph Tuhan

because she didn't knock someone out. Come on, come on, boys and girls, be a bit sensible. Well, I was going to go to the copper box with you, but now we'll do that at the end. I want to take us to New York. We've already mentioned Shakur Stevenson against Tiafimo Lopez for the WBO light, well-to-weight title.

Not that it matters. I mean, I'm not really quite sure belts were a factor. However, little fact for you. Stevenson, whatever he is, 28, becomes the third youngest person to have won World Championship belts at four weights and joins a very elite group of people, only 25 boxers,

but their quality ones, Roberto de Roan, Oscar de La Jolla. That's not a bad little game. With one world title belts at four weights. The fight was a breeze, a comfortable, skillful, sensible mask class. All three of the judges decided to give Lopez a mercy round.

The bottom line is he didn't really win 20 seconds of any completed round and got a sensible boxing job. His corner didn't help him, but I thought that Stevenson was very, very much like Mayweather, very much like Sweet Pernail Wittaker, very much like the best skillful boxers they have been in the past.

It was a quality performance. I've loved him since he was in the amateurs. I mean, that's the first time I saw him, as it will have been for you as well. And at a time when, you know, the US weren't producing mega talents. He was just an absolute... One talent per Olympics.

Yeah. And he was the talent, but you could tell he was different. He was a generational talent. I've loved him since then. I've always thought he was really impressive. But I mean, that was something else that he did. You know, to move up in weight,

the artistry, how smart he was, how sharp he was, how quick... It was as if, like the best fighters do, he already knew what Lopez was going to do before Lopez knew. Which he did. And he had an answer to him. Yeah, it was just, I mean, that was a superb performance.

And again, like you've mentioned before with Devin Haney, people, I've seen people criticising online that is boring. That is not boring. It's just exceptional. Like if you enjoy boxing, then yes, you can enjoy the scraps with not great deal of skill, but you've got to appreciate the level of skill. I mean, it's just superb. And I tell you what, also to credit him, I know he's 28, so he's a man now,

and he ought to have that element of maturity. but Lopez is a very, very difficult man to deal with in the buildup. Before the first build. I interviewed him for 30 seconds ringside in Saudi. He's like a box of frogs in. He's jumping about. He's all over. But to have a full fight week with him and some of the,

I mean, let's be honest, some of the things he was saying in the buildup were pretty grim. It got really nasty and very personal. Unnecessarily so. Yeah, same things about his mum and all of that. And for Stevenson to, you know, he did rattle him in the sense that he got annoyed and reacted, but to hold it together with that.

with that kind of, you know, it's all very well being all skillful and all that, but sometimes it can get in people's minds. So he had all that to contend me to put on that masterclass as well, really, really impressive. I mean, he's superb. Is there a case? Because not only did, was Lopez losing round after round after round after round, and Stevenson could do what he liked.

Is there a case that, and I'm not going to go against my previous argument or go against your argument, but is there a case that he could have just experimented a little bit, he could have just got a little bit closer, He could have just got a bit more aggressive. I'm not convinced about my argument here myself, don't worry. So I'm playing devil's advocacy with my own boxing brain, to be honest with you. But is there a chance?

Is that a possibility that he could have, in theory, could have in theory just pushed on a little bit? I mean, quite possibly. But do you know, when somebody's been gab, gab, gabbing all week, and if you can punish them and humiliate them and give them a lesson, why not? Absolutely, why not? The reason I'm looking out there, Stacey, is I might have to leave you for six or seven minutes. That's all right. Before that, before I get tugged out of the studio to go and do something else where,

because we do record this pod as live. That's one of our things. We do it as live. Connor Ben jumps up in the ring at the end, surrounded by all those celebrities, then Shakur Stevenson calls him out. Calls him out. What's the fight?

Connor Ben. I mean, the world's turned upside down. Well, arguably, Dalton Smith should be getting that shout, shouldn't he? I mean, having just be at 140, obviously, for the WBC, Subril Matea, so really that's who should be stepping up and getting that opportunity next. But we both know boxing is a business,

and from Stevenson's point of view, he can make a load of money. It's an easier fight for him. And, you know, perhaps a no-brainer in terms of ticket sales. But really, Dalton Smith ought to be getting that opportunity. How about the big fight is the man that keeps on getting opportunities when he doesn't deserve them, let's get it right. And that would be Ryan Garcia against Stevenson or Devin Haney against Stevenson.

Their clans are already clashing. I mean, there's some great stuff. But I think we need to make sure that we placed what we saw on Saturday in that pantheon, in that list of great all-American fights from the 80s, from the 90s. Thankfully, there were 21,324 people there to sort of celebrate it. But it deserves to be in that company. Yeah, absolutely.

He's 28 as well, so he's in his prime. So it's not like he's beat. come up in wait and beat someone who's like on the way out or on the decline. Absolutely. He's at his peak and he still took that on. So that says a lot about him. He's ambitious. He's confident.

He's got belief. And yeah, I know sometimes people who perhaps don't deserve fights get them, but we're all going to watch him. And Lopez himself, he left it a morning to talk about, he will move up to World to Wait. So somewhere down the line,

and we may see a better Lopez. You know, he may find his mojo in a fight. He was never going to find it against Shakur, Stevenson. And I'll be honest with you, The only people that are going to get to Shakur are going to be fights where he's disadvantaged by weight. I'm convinced of that. I agree. I agree.

Any of the lightweights or light welters or super... Absolutely. It's going to be when he takes a risk in a big fight with someone heavier down the line. Because don't rule out this guy in two years fighting some sort of like middleweight fight. He's super world-way fight. For instance, Terence Crawford, his best friend and his hero, look what he did. He moved up about a stone and a half. Unlike what Ussick's done.

You know, it's one thing coming up. to bite in some heavyweights, but the likes of Fury and a big banger like Dubois, people had questions. I mean, he obviously managed to do it, but as you say,

it does add jeopardy. Luckily, it was a bit of class on a night when he lost his hairpiece in the ring somewhere and it ended up in Fabio's hand, then on Sky's head, you can't invent these nights.

Stakes, don't go anywhere. I've got a 7 or 8 minute appearance on Jeremy Vine. To talk about hair pieces, I'll be straight back. Is it live? Of course it's live. I'm going to watch it.

This is, this, what we're doing here, I mean, obviously, this pod, we record ads live, but it's not live. I'm going to go put the tally on and watch you on. Go put a tell you on there. What's your own, I'll do with that. See them in. No, it's radio, not TV.

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Good Bad Billionaire, how Toto Wolf made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. Bonsi, I've just been listening to you talking to Jeremy Vine and now here you are in person, two places at once, talking about hair pieces.

Yeah, four different floors had to cover. War and hairpiece. I didn't use that with Viny because he might have thought I was trying to be too clever, but that worked. He was genuinely, you know, enthralled by it. And I think it was. I think we may be selling it short

because we're boxing people. It's a funny story. Big Baby Miller, you know, drug claims aside, it's a funny story. He's a funny guy. Now the best part, though, really, is the mad commentary from Todd Grisham and Sergio Mora. Let's have a little listen to that. Is it coming off?

What is happening here? It is. Oh, wow. It's losing. Social media. So that's Todd there in absolute classic wrestling style. And Sergio Mora. Yeah, if you ever have a moment like that, you want an American commentator, don't you, to get over-excited about it?

Todd. Listen, Todd lives for two-pays being displaced. I can assure you. I wonder if it'll change people's threats now, Buncey, from I'll knock your head off to I'll not your hair off. Well, I know one thing, if I'm a bald fighter, every single conference I go to from now on, it starts, I think, on Wednesday with Derek Del Boycezoa.

If Derek Del Boycezoa doesn't come in with a $570 to pay, I should be really, really upset. The other question it raises is when does a two-pay end and when there's a wig start? I'm not quite sure on the Five Live Boxing Pod. That's the place for that discussion, but I have no idea, Stace.

And trust me, if I'd have had one more night to prepare, I was going to get the 569, including postage toupee, that I found only late last night, and I was going to get it in blonde. How about that? Anyway, Sir Kurt Stevenson, may or may not fight Conner Ben, he's asked for it. Conor Ben said yes, but there'll be some problems. That won't have them, but it's a nice idea.

The Ryan Garcia is the interesting one. He's fighting Marion Barrios for the version of the World Title on Feb 21st. He lost his last World Title fight last year. He was disgraced a year before, I think, when he found a drug test after beating Devin Hayley, and yet it just seems to bounce and bounce. And that's where Shakur might be, in fights with big names like that.

Why not? Yeah, and I think, like we've said many times before, it's not always about people don't always get what they deserve. One way or do the good or bad. It's a business at the end of the day. So, yeah, the big names, Ryan Garcia, you know, some people love him, some people hate him, some people tolerate him.

But he does, you know, he does guard. eyes on it, doesn't he? He's excited as well. It's one of those that people either want to see him win or they want to see him get beat. And that's quite a magic, what do you call it, combination for making money

because people want to see it either way. Before we move on to the copper box, I'll throw one out there that might be an unbelievable fight. We might be going outdoors in Las Vegas for it. It's an all-American clash. Shakur's in one corner, in the opposite corner,

having served a short sentence and paid his fines for his crimes, Tank Davis. Yes. Tank Davis, Shakur Stevenson, I don't know, May 2027. That's a super fight. Don't need the comment. So Stace, you're at the copper box, which is an arena that's an odd arena.

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with the copper box, going back to its Olympic days in 2012. And some of the fights that we've had there that have worked and some that really should have worked that didn't work. You were there on BBC 2 duty. The top of the bill was meant to be Adam Azeem in a real fight. It turned out being Fran Hennessy, also in a real fight. It has to be said.

In fact, in a very, very real fight. Absolutely. And I think going into that, part of the, it's always a concern for anybody who's either got a ticket to a show or that's working a show, obviously when the top of the bill falls out. It's always a concern, isn't it? Because, you know, that's one that sold it and everyone's looking forward to. then when it was announced obviously

to go ahead and Fran Hennessy and Elie Boutelle would headline there's a worry because Elie Burtell was a bit of an unknown entity Steve because yes she's from Nottingham Tell us why it stays Tell us why yeah She's been living in China in Shanghai for a long time Remarkable story

Cambridge University graduate and speaks Mandarin Been living out there for you know a long time and all of her fights bar the last one which was in Thailand have all been in China And there's not really any comparisons We could make with any of the Hard to measure

Yeah, opposition that Fran Hennessy has faced. Yep. So it's difficult. And also, you know, you've not got that amateur background necessarily that you could even go off. So it's difficult. And, you know, you were hoping it wouldn't be massively one-sided because you don't want that.

I mean, Fran would. But, you know, as a spectator, you don't. But it absolutely wasn't. And what Elie Boutel did was the first round, you know, Fran got into a rhythm and it was looking like that was going to set the tone. But Elibatel, they gave a... great instruction in the corner and she had a clear game plan to upset that rhythm, upset that fluidity. Sorry, Stacey.

Were a corner speaking Mandarin or were they speak in English? I couldn't hear from where we were. Were they Chinese? They spoke to each other in Mandarin throughout Fight Week. Yeah, the whole way through Fight Week. That's really cool. Yeah, so, but yeah, she was, I mean, she just didn't leave her alone. She was constantly on her.

And even when they took a moment to step back, bam, she was straight back in and she, you know, she roughed her up. She got close. She just didn't allow Fran Hennessy to work like, seen her be able to do before. That said, when Fran had the opportunity to do that, she showed those silky skills and, you know, that lovely footwork. And that's obviously what took it in the judge's favour for her in the end. But it honestly could have gone either way. I thought so. Yeah. Definitely. And for two total different reasons, Fran because she had that slick movement, she caught her with those accurate sharp shots, which was nice to watch. But Ellie

Boutel really put it on and never left her alone. She was right on her chest, her rander the whole way through. So yeah, it was a fascinating one and I don't think it was what we expected. No, it wasn't what we expected. And you know what? It's the type of fight that she did, a second consecutive 10 round fight. Okay, she might be 21. It might have only been her

eight fight, but there's an awful lot of world champions. About the same, maybe a year or so older, two years older, but with the same amount of fights, six, seven, eight, nine fights. You know, eight fights at that level of women's boxing, when you're fighting quality boxers, you just don't have the, you don't have the

beauty of having three years of beating women that have got no chance of beating you. It's a fast, it's a fast-track system for the women's day. So it's been, as you know. And the thing that's difficult for Fran Hennessy, I mean, she had a couple of Goodwin's last year, particularly against Gemma Ruebe, because she is, you know, really tough and durable. And, you know, now she'd come through it and she came through it fine. But the problem is, in her weight category, is Shinika Johnson has all the belts, and she's a whole other level, clearly, or she wouldn't have all the belts.

So that's what's really difficult. It's not like there's three or four people that you can go out for a world title. Pick one of them off, though. That was, you know, that put her in contention for it. That was an eliminator for it. So whether that would be the right move straight away, I don't know. But, you know, and there she's faced Elibutel, but it's a great learning fight for her.

She will have taken so much from it. But she's not the level of Chinika Johnson, and you're talking about going there next. There's probably some, you know, Europeans and titles and stuff like that that would be more suitable first, given how young she is as well. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Just to point out, that was the third BBC television show

in about nine weeks, and there might be one on March 7th. There's a possibility that there'll be a fight of the Royal House. It's only a possibility, but it's been mentioned. But there will be one on April the 4th when Lauren Price, when Lauren Price returns to Cardiff for defence of her two or three belts. Also on that date, and it's going to be announced officially

in a couple of days' time, I mentioned him earlier. Derek Del Boyce's Orra against Deonti Wilder. The stats on this fight are ridiculous. Combined age 82, combined fights, 98. Not too much to say about that because we might go and do something. But since we recorded a pod last week, it was officially announced that Arsenal Beck-McMoodov, 6'8 to 6'410, depending on who you believe, will fight Tyson Fury.

By the way, a Tyson Fury looks slimmer and fitter with each and every day and each and every social media offering. That's on April the 11th. I'm pleased. It's a good opponent chosen. I didn't want to see a walkover like he had back in whatever was 2018 when he thought, Safere's Saferi. This is a perfectly legitimate fight for the big lad to come backstage, in my opinion.

Has it been confirmed as Spurs yet, that? Do we know? Is it because it was mentioned? No. I, listen, my gut feeling is, as much as you could probably sell a big stadium or push it with a great undercard. Imagine inside. Imagine Tyson Fury's return to the UK inside, the O2,

or hopefully, or the Manchester Arena, wherever it's called now, and then the co-op, which is 22,000, I'm not mistaken. That's what it's going to be in the UK. That's what we know at the moment. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it ends up. But yeah, I think that's a, it's a sensible one for him, isn't it? Because everybody knows what they want to see.

Like most fight fans want to see him and AJ, obviously. it's been talked about over and over and over again and it's never happened but a lot of people want to see it Fury obviously wants Usick again but either way whatever's to come next I think this is a smart one for him for now. Another subject of next

this Saturday in Liverpool Nick Ball were having it I think his fourth defence of his WBA featherweight title and this is a fight that people I don't use the word sleep on I don't like that expression I don't know where it come from I'm not a fan of it but it's certainly a fight that it's going under the radar

It's certainly a fight that people are overlooking. It's certainly a fight that people just assume is a treading water fight for Nick Ball. Brandon Figueroa is about five inches taller. He's only two defeats have been on points. One of them extremely close in world title fights with Stephen Fulton, who was a really good champion in his day. And he's only 29 Brandon Figueroa.

So he's not old. I mean, you know you talk about, you look for a chick, look for a little chink, a little thing. So is he old? Has he not full? Has he been knocked out in his last fight? Brendan Figueroa is a very live and a very dangerous opponent this Saturday on this zone in Liverpool. I think it's really interesting when this happens.

And I'm not comparing the two fighters like for like. But it did happen a bit this with Crowley, you know, when obviously being in Manchester when he was fighting Lanares and people like, oh, this is finally his chance he's going to do it. And people who hadn't heard of Lenares thought it was just a sure thing. And those of us that knew? Yeah, everyone in boxing was like, well, I've got a minute. this is a tough yeah exactly and then suddenly you could see the buzz in the arena

and then as the fight was going on you could see people going wow this guy's mustard you know he's brilliant and I'm not saying that will happen or that it's like for light but it does happen where if they're not on the British boxing scene radar to fight fans sometimes it can get a bit overlooked but I think you're bang on you know he's a real live opponent

but that's exactly what nitball needs you know it's big fight after big fight after big fight we've seen it brings the best out of him doesn't always get the nod, of course, but he's been exceptional in fights even when he hasn't. So I think it's a really exciting one, and I think, you know, another, you know, just another massive night for a British fighter

with the world title on the line. It's just phenomenal at the moment. I was wondering where I was going to finish this pod, having started with Big Baby Miller's Flying Hairpiece. I keep want to say Cod Piece, but it's his hairpiece, Steve, hairpiece. God, don't say that. No, no, it's not an legal word. It falls inside.

all rules and regulations. So the flying hairpiece was how we started. And we're going to end with a story that isn't funny. Actually, there was a great boxer about 100 years ago. He had 81 fights in total. He turned pro when he was 13. He retired when he was 24. He won a world title at the Royal Albert Hall when he was 19 years of age.

That's still a record. His name was Teddy Bulldoch, and he was known as the Pride of Poplar, which is a part of East London, full of fighters over the years. Now, Teddy Bullock finally got, recognition. He died penniless in 1971. In the

40s and 50s and 60s, he was a day dock worker, so he went to the docks in London every day to try and get workers a day worker. It's one of those cruel, really arbitrary, really savage and untold stories. One of the great British fighters just died basically pennless,

as I say, in 1971. Finally, his daughter and his grandson managed to raise some money, raise awareness, and a statue was erected. And I think in 2014 in a place called Langdon Park in Poplar in East London. It's a most beautiful brass statue. Sometimes statues, I want to say this, I don't like them.

I think they look dreadful. Some are terrible. Some are okay. Rinaldos in Madeira. And outside most of the football grounds in this country. But Teddy Bulldox, brass statue, was absolutely brilliant. Anyway, sometime over the weekend, it was stolen. Now, this statue will end up being scrapped.

Now, the real problem is the man that made it died since he's made it. it. He's died since he made it. So I just want to raise a little bit of awareness for that, because if there are any massive benefactors in boxing, want to put up a prize, let's get a prize out there. And listen, they're thieves anyway, but let's pay these thieves. Let's pay them some cash. Let's get the statue back, because I fear he won't get another one.

Let's get it back and let's get it up. So we're going to, we started off with a flying hairpiece. We've done Shakur Stevenson. We've done Josh Kelly. We've done friend Hennessy. I've done a bit of Jeremy Vine. You've been patient, States. You've got work to.

We've ended with the sad story of the stolen bronze statue of Teddy Bordock. And we haven't sworn, we haven't breached any regulations. That's why we're number one. Stacey's been a pleasure, an absolute pleasure being with you. I've been Steve Bunce, and this has been Five Live Boxing. Five Live Sports NFL. Can be the best than you can be.

We're going to go out there, early. And skill collide. Five Live Sports. NFL. Listen, on BBC.