5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Michael's Mile

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Buncey joins Michael Watson as he walks a mile through the streets of London to raise money for charity. Back in 1991, during his fight with Chris Eubank, Watson was caught by a brutal uppercut and collapsed soon after the bout. He spent 40 days in a coma. Surrounded by friends and family as he made his way up The Mall, Buncey chats to Watson himself, as well as Chris Eubank, who reflects on that fateful night and shares his concerns about his son’s upcoming bout with Conor Benn. We also hear from Watson’s neurosurgeon, Peter Hamlyn, his lawyer, Michael Toohig, and the many supporters who turned out to walk alongside their friend.

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. On September 21st, 1991, in the 12th and last round, Michael Watson was rescued by the referee, Roy Francis, in his WBO Super Middleweight title fight with Chris Eubank. It was a rematch. It was a brilliant fight, but it had a terrible ending. Michael ended up on the operating table,

saved by neurosurgeon Peter Hamlin. And those pair, they've become. come firm friends. They consider each other family. It works out. Well, fast forward all these years to a glorious sunny day in central London. And Michael's Mile,

something set up by I-Nuro, the charity that Hamlin is heavily involved with. Chris Eubank was there, and we'll hear from Chris Eubank a little bit later on. Michael Watson walking a mile for a charity at 60 years of age, all those years after that fight. That in itself is a miracle.

And that's why I call it. Hamlin and Watson the Miracle Team. This is a special podcast. I mean a very special podcast. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. What do you think of Peter Hamlin, Mike? He is my hero. A man like Peter, he's a man that saved my life.

And he should be awarded. He says that you saved his life, that you've been such an inspiration to him. I'm being who I am. the people's champions back, the people's champion in the 40s back. So you're going to walk a mile today. That's right.

Mike, that's nothing. You've walked a marathon 20 years ago. Took you six days? Every little bit helps. Is that right, Steve? Every little bit does help. Craig. Mike, can me ask you this.

How is your life at a moment? Because you look in the best, I've known you a long time. You're 60 years of age. You're a miracle man. You look in the best shape you've been. I'm glad that I'm with the right. right people in life. I'm in the right hands. I'm very joyful, Steve.

And you still rejoice every morning you wake up? I'm singing and shouting. I thank God for each and every day that's I live. And what's your relationship like with Peter? How often do you see him with Peter Hamlin? We are like family, me and Peter. The man, he's my hero. He saved my life. a long time ago. And these are only started my marathon process when I first started walking for the brain and spine. But they didn't think you could do the marathon, did they, Mike?

They didn't think you could do it. I am a miracle. The man that I'm full of surprise to think, I'll throw a right hook to your head. Short right hook. Mike, that marathon six days, they thought you had no chance of doing it, but you knew you could do it.

do it, didn't you? You knew you had the faith to do it. It's all down to self-believe. I'm living my purpose. What would be your purpose, Mike? If you had to describe... Give people the inspiration in life, the help of soul in life,

to let them know. If I can do, so can't they. So can know. So we're going to walk with you during the mile. Now, I remember from walking with you in Hackney when you were training for the marathon, all those years ago. You're very fast, Mike. Are you still keeping up that pace?

It's my long legs. It's just the long legs. So you're still charging on? I'm still fighting on, like always. Like I've worn firetime. You're looking more with yourself. Well, I'm feeling well, Mike. I'm out in the sun with you.

Of course I'm feeling well. Of course I'm feeling well. You look brilliant. You look in brilliant shape. I'm with right people in life. and I'm being what looks after. I feel very joyful and very content. We're going to grab you during the walk.

See you in a minute. See you in about half a mile. Let's go for the whole day. See in a minute. Take it, too. So I leave Michael there to wander around in the sunshine talking to some of the boxers that are here, including Nick Blackwell, also suffered an injury

after a sparring session, not after a fight. It's something that's very, very different. I'm now going to be joined by a man who I once interviewed at length for Michael's book, Peter Hamlin. Peter, the first question I asked Mike, and I'm going to ask you the first question, is what do you think of, I asked him, what do you think of Peter Hamlin? And he said that you're his hero. So what do you think of Michael Watson, Peter Hamlin? He's an absolute inspiration, not least to me.

And he's been incredibly supported to me throughout my career and time. I've had my troubles with the house of my family and he's been right there every time and what's most remarkable about him is just how indomitable he is he never lets anything get him down and he will always rise

to any challenge he loves a challenge in fact he does I worry about him taking on challenges that's my job to worry well back in November of 2020 2002 before he did the marathon And I don't know if you put your arm on his shoulder and said, Michael, you can't do 26 miles. And he said, yes, I can.

And of course he did seven or eight months later. That's just part of his challenge because his real challenge is just his everyday existence. I would have fought from the outside. Well, that was in 2003. And he was injured in 1991, right? That had taken 12 years in which he'd crawled literally from a coma, completely paralyzed to being able to walk 26 miles.

and that journey was really painful to watch but again he undertook the whole thing without a flinch it's extraordinary it is extraordinary and now it's really interesting for me because it's your game it's not my game but I'm just talking to it I haven't seen him for three or four years he's as sharp if not sharper than I've known him his cognitive abilities it appeared to me I'm sort of lost the words.

I'm not quite sure what to say. He seems like he's not just getting better. He's getting miles better. You've spotted something. He is cognitively going in the opposite direction to most of us. He's getting better and better. And it's true. So 10 years ago, he wasn't as sharp as he is today.

And it's just fantastic to be working with him again because he's got so much energy. Now, in the world of humans or athletes to recover from injury, five years, 10 years, 15 years on. Is he remarkable inside that pantheon as well? Oh, yeah. I mean, to have hovered so close to death for as long as he did, I haven't seen any other patient survive that.

He then went through the most enduring, as I say, 10 years that would have completely flattened any of us. And most people just don't carry on putting and the work you have to do. And I guess that was his training background. That was his drive. Trains, trains, and drives and drives. Now, I've got to ask you, if I can,

and I'll maybe feel like I should ask you, we will talk about Michael's Mile and I Nuro. But I've got to ask you about that night, by September 21st, 1991, it was probably close to midnight when you received the call, and you had to come in from your home, and you got to Barts,

and there were quite a few people out of the front. So my understanding is that you went around the side, trying to find another entrance. The entrances were locked. And then what I called a kind of, yeah, I guess you'd call it, some sort of miracle happened. And you managed to gain access. Well, I sort of knew what I was doing. I arrived at the front of the hospital and it was a complete scrum. And so I thought, I'm going to go around the back and see if our regular customer is there. And we had a bag lady who used to live in the bottom of the hospital. And sure enough, I could see her sitting on the bench inside so I tapped on the glass and I thought I'm not actually sure

what's going to happen here but she came up and clearly recognized me and opened the the door at the back of the hospital and I came in I said thank you very much she muttered something I couldn't understand went back to her bags and I went up and the rest is history 30 minutes later you're in surgery or something like literally 30 minutes later if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I mean that was And as you said, the rest is history. Yeah. Peter, we're going to walk with you a little bit and maybe grab a word as we're

walking down in front of the palace, but thanks for finding us some time. Great pleasure. Great pleasure. So that was Peter Hamelin. We stopped the traffic at the roundabout there. We're now walking down the side of Buckingham Palace. An awful lot of boxes have shown up. Wayne Alexander's

over there. Sweet Dee Williams is over there. And I'm joined by former British Everweight Champion. and a very old old friend of mine, Julius Francis. Jules, you didn't fight alongside Michael, but you've known him and you've been around. I've seen lots of his functions. What does he mean to you, Michael Watson, Julius?

Michael is a inspiration. What it is, he's an inspiration because I watched him fight. Before I became a professional fighter. What did you talk about about 93? I turned pro in 93, but I was watching Michael fight in the late 80s, early 90s. Obviously, he fought Nigel Ben in 1990. Yeah. You know, and it's funny because he was sparring with, he used to spar with a guy from my old amateur boxing gym called Ben.

Ben was a light heavyweight, and Michael obviously was middle super middle. So you, was that, or did he come down to you in Woolwich for that? Or was that somewhere in North London? I just knew that... That happened. Yeah, this guy used to spar with him. And so there's a connection, you know, whether it's a very tenuous connection

and a very loose connection. And then you see these people on TV, and this is what I experienced, you see these people on TV and you're superstars as far as I was concerned. Yeah. And then you meet them, you get to meet them. And like, sometimes there's that adage

says people shouldn't meet their heroes and people they look up to. But then meeting Michael Watson, it's like, yes, I'm meeting one of my heroes and it doesn't disappoint because he is what he is and he's just a great guy.

And he was full of humility before the second fight with you back. Yeah, and he's always been a humble man. Always been, as I say, the false. Michael the false Watson. and he is a force of nature. Can I ask you this, that fight, November 1991,

so it was an awful long time ago. And I've spent in this to Peter Hamelin and I was shocked, I haven't seen Michael for a couple of years. Michael's sharp and he's been... No, no, Jules, he is. Because you know I'm absolutely telling the truth. You don't lie.

You and I, we go back a long way. And this is funny because... I've never seen him in the shit. He's as sharp now as he was when he's ever been. We see each other and he says to me he always goes on about

he wants to hit me he punches me in the guts yeah he's done me twice as well and he... bit powerful as well if he doesn't mind of sandso and he tells me that I've got to lose weight

and he tells me he asks me if I'm getting bigger but I'm definitely I'm not getting necessarily getting bigger but I am getting stronger you ain't get any smaller are you?

You don't mind me saying so George no Michael is this guy that he's always forever got a smile on his face regardless of the situation

forever got a smile in his face and you know he's for me I always feel like I've got to be around him when I see him I've got to be around him protecting him because he's that

he has that kind of um he's vulnerable still aren't it but physically vulnerable yeah he's physically vulnerable but not in any other capacity yeah that was that was I think there was so many people

you've got to imagine when that happened to Michael when that situation happened to Michael. There were so many people around London that were saying, boy, you know what, if they were to find these people and if they got old of them, it's not going to go to trial, is it? It could go the other way, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, yeah, that was, that was a real, it left a nasty taste of people in people's mouth, yeah. 29 years? Yeah, and rightly so. Yeah. But yeah, Michael is this guy's, like I say, look, look at, when you look at this situation,

the people that want to follow him, the people that are going on this walk to help. So it's members of the public. Nick Blackmoss come up who's suffering an injury. He's here with his steps on who's for cerebral pauses

and they're pushing him in a wheelchair. It's a real odd mix of different people from boxing outside. And a family who have come down from Scotland. He just said to come down from Scotland. He was out on a walk in London and he's just seen us guys, seen Michael Watson.

He's bumped into Chris Eubachs. He's had a world with Christian. Yeah, Chris Eubach just appeared, yeah. Yes. Had photographs taken with fighters. And he's just said, right, I'm going to join this. I'm joining him. I'm in the walk.

It's a mile walk, the Iron Neuro. Michael's Marl. Now, Jules, I can't let you go. Obviously, you were a British champion and you were good British. You were a better British heavyweight champion than you want to me. You were a good one. Then you had the Tyson fight, which was brilliant, in 20,000.

Obviously, it was, but it was a great event. And you said to me, when I came to see you at the barracks down and all the shot where everyone was, you said, look, I'm going to have a go. And you did have a go. You could have floated through that and not had to go. You had a go. Oh, yeah.

And you got to call it all of that. Forget all of that. I've got to ask you about the viral incident at Wemble. I've got to ask you about it, Jules. Come on, you got to tell me, because I'm not a bunch of you at that Frankie Lucas play, but we never talked about the instance. I'm going to ask you now. What happened?

Talk me through it. Basically, it was a guy and a group of guys that came to the venue that I was working at. I was working at, obviously, working at Box Park. I used to, um, was a doorman there at Box Park. Just doing my job. Yeah. The guys came down. He just wanted to just get out of hand.

And it, and it was a case of asking, asking someone to stop what they're doing. And like, stop what you're doing. You need to lead the venue. And then from there, it just exploded. He started throwing drinks, throwing food, spitting on me, spitting on people. He just got crazy and out of hand. And then by the time it actually came. to what we saw in the video

he'd already attacked a couple of the staff and then came to me, actually came and put hands on you? Put hands on me, but he'd already told me what he was going to do to you? Previously what he was going to do, yeah, so, and I'm not saying, look, I'm not saying that it's good for people to hit people in whatever. But the management fully backed you?

Yes, 100%. 100% because I didn't do anything wrong. All I did was defend myself and even the police said, NFA, no further action. And I will say, look, at the end of the day,

it's just the case of, you never know, people should understand that you never know who you're going to meet on the ball. Absolutely. Of nightclubs and venues

or anywhere you go. Shops. I've seen people, I've seen people, like security guards getting attacked in shops by members of the public. And you don't know who that person is?

You don't know who they are and what they've done in their life and even what kind of, kind of day they've had leading up to that point. So it's just a case of kind of everybody just being nice. It costs nothing. Manors cost nothing. Being nice costs nothing.

And he was definitely short of manners. Oh, God. Then you didn't show him some manners? Well, I mean that nicely. I did what I had to do, which was obviously for me to protect myself. Yeah, of course. Because I don't know what he was going to do. I'd already seen him attacking members of the staff.

He'd already said what he wanted to do to me. or he felt he could do to me and again I know this is it's a couple of years on but yes the video keeps going he keeps making making his rounds I actually do wish it wouldn't anymore because it's kind of

well please I wouldn't be known for something more than that I've had a career as a fighter yeah very good career and if you don't mind me saying so Jules and I really mean this and don't take this the wrong way but you're a professional fighter that's doing the rounds been watched by millions you haven't made a penny from it something

I'm sorry, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm right, you're right, 100% right. So your best, one of your best knockouts, you never had a penny for it. I never, it's an absolute, it is crazy, yeah, when you look at you that way, yeah, definitely. We're at the bottom of the side of the palace, that's QVM over on the right,

the Queen Victoria Monument. Everyone slowed down a little bit here. Jules, thank you so much for your time. No problem, thank you very much, Steve. Nice one. So we've left Julius Francis there. He's now at the back of the pack. I'm in front of the pack.

There's been another call for pictures because we're actually outside Buckinghampton Palace. So you get a picture of Chris Eubank, Michael Watson, Peter Hamlin, looking at. And I'm with Nick Blackwell now who's suffered an injury after a British title fight. Nick, how much of an inspiration to you is Michael Watson and how much of an inspiration has he been?

Let's walk and talk. It's the sunshine. He's been a massive inspiration to me. He's been through exactly what I've been through. He's suffered a brain injury from Chris Eubank, he's senior, mine's junior, and he's had his skull removal,

put back in his body, just like you? Just like me. We had to learn to war talking here again, just like me. But yeah, I'll travel away down from Trowbridge, Wiltshire, South West. Just to walk with him. Just to walk a mile, Michael's mile.

Yeah, Michael's a mile is the least ugly for Michael today. And Nick, how have you? I mean, every time I see you, you seem in good spirits, sometimes maybe not as good as other times. How have you been the last, say, six months or so? year. Have you been this year? Yeah, I struggle. I struggle. Out of a show, I look good on the outside. I've got so much going on the inside. But I'm a positive person. I've always been a positive

person. Even when I was boxing, I always said positive, I'm out, positive thinking, positive outcome. And that's what's turned out to be like. So, yeah, I've always been happy, smiley, chatty, say hello to everyone. But you do have dark days, Nick. I know that for a fact. I know. I do have dark days, yeah. I see how I follow you and I talk to you when I can and your partner. But you have, you have tough days, don't you? I have really bad days. art days as well people don't realize what you go through when you're going for a brain injury the stuff that I used to be able to do when I was boxing I could do basically you know and everything and it's stuff now that I can't do but it's just I'm a different nick now I'm a different nick and I'm a different nick and I'm a different nick and I'm a different nick of yeah

you're doing you're not doing bad Nick yeah I'm just glad to be alive you float you're floating around your fancy ray band shades if you don't mind me saying so yeah listen they're doing pictures there you get yourself over there and you guys dude nice one buddy thank you thank you Mike, so Michael, so we're halfway down, halfway past the walk, you're in front of Buckingham Palace, you've got a chair, you're the only person with a chair, you're just having a little bit of a pit stop, a little bit of a rest. The re-energizing process. So is it food and drink? Can you tell? I need fuel in the system.

The last half miles is going to be no problem. Usain Bolt Star Don't get carried away Peter, Peter Hamlin's here Peter he's saying the last half miles is going to be Usain Bolt style Yeah exactly Well you know mentally he's with

Usain Bolt That's at the finish time before any of us Yeah So 90% of every race and fight is mental anyway Exactly and he's nearly there It is amazing talking to different people As we're walking down people that recognise him And are not boxing fans that just recognise him

I mean that never fails to touch me What he's done for disability and the way people view disability, you can't underestimate that. You know, so many people look at it as a disadvantage, look down on people, talk loudly to them. In the mind of many people, he's a hero, and that transforms the way people view it. It's every bit as important as the stuff we're doing for neurological. Which you're doing. well yeah you are with him I'll let you

get some juices get some fruit get some nuts and some berries and seeds we'll see you at the end excellent that sounds good thanks Steve joined now by Chris here at this pit stop Michael's there refueling Peter Hamlin's refueling

Chris you're out here in the sun it's quite a moving walk isn't it yes it's always moving Michael is inspiration personified you know, to still be alive, you know what it is, to do what he's doing? Putting that aside, you know, I'm the one who struck him with this shot. Okay, and you've heard him time and time and time again, you know, you're forgiven.

You know, it was an accident. You know, this is why boxing is called the noble art. the word noble art didn't come about by any mistake this is what it looks like specifically chosen that's right specifically chosen

and it's a it's a sieve that separates the you know the greats which is what Michael is from the contenders and the contenders can never be champions if they don't follow the rules

and the rules have to be adhered to and if they're not adhered to then we are effectively a country of baboons. And this is something that you're, you know, I know that following the rules is something that's quite close to your heart with regards to the fight that's coming up very soon at Tottenham, which I know has particularly

upset you, the fact that it's even happening. Well, it's not happening. They think it's going to happen. Okay? So, you know, so the public now, they'll hear this interview and they'll say, well, Eobank doesn't make any sense. You know, everybody, everybody and their mother, is actually looking forward to this fight.

And by all accounts, it looks like it's going to happen. Trust me when I tell you, okay? This fight doesn't happen because it breaks the rules. And the rules, what people don't understand is that the rules has power around it. You know, those rules are made to safeguard fighters. White categories. Wait, that's right. You know, so we heard this, Connor Ben, who said on Pierce Morgan,

for this one fight I'm going up to 160 and then I'm going to come back down to 147 do the rules not apply to him well if it's clearly not then the personification of the behaviour is what I've exemplified over these 35 years Michael Watson is the same

but more so because he's the one he's the one who is disabled he's the what look at him the pain he's going through to walk this walk walk a mile. The pain is going through is... It makes me emotional.

I can tell. I don't say I've cried enough because I'll always cry. But I need to get this message across. Who are we? You know, we are Great Britain. You know, the Queensbury rules were born here in the United Kingdom.

How is it we are not following the rules? 147 fights, 147. 147 doesn't fight 160. And doesn't fight a 1-60. 180 and a 190. Have you reached out to your son to talk about it? My son doesn't listen to me.

He said of me the other day. He said, oh, my dad, you know, mental health. As in trying to actually... Apologize. No, not apologize, but to say, well, my dad's not really straight in his head. He is, and Conner is riding on the backs of the fathers. And it's disgraceful because the weights are wrong.

wrong and the rules have to, they have to be adhered to. If they're not adhered to, it'll become it'll become a circus that will not even be recognizable. I'm talking about boxing. It won't be recognizable. That's WWE. That's choreographed stuff. Here's this young man, Connor, swearing like he's a possessed drunk. So where are these rules gone? Which made boxing a sport where people could watch and say, wow, oh, look at Eubank. He's going all the way. He doesn't stop, even though he's being killed. Look at what Watson's doing to Eubank.

Look at what Ben's doing. So we've set this standard, which is being trashed by these guys who only know what they call instant gratification. This is the noble art. And to build yourself into a fighter of note, you have to be a fighter of note. you have to go through the proper procedure and it's going to take time but the rules is what makes fighting

it builds better fighters the bar becomes very low when they don't abide by the rules you have to train this is not like any other form of entertainment it's a code it's a code these promoters have no code

which is why the circus is happening what you see here today happening really, really, you know, slaps in their faces how deplorable, how deplorable these guys are. The code has to be adhered to. And the Boxing Board of Control have a job to do more so than them, you, the journalist. You have a job, you've got to keep everybody in line. Chris, thank you so much. So I've left Chris Eubank over there doing posing for some pictures and talking to people and he's happy.

Now, there's one man who never gets the credit he deserves, who's been walking along the mile with us and has walked along the marathon with Michael and has been on bigger journeys, longer, harder journeys with Michael, has been in court with Michael, and it's a man that represented Michael and his case against the British boxing border control. And he's floated through in and out here.

He's not been asked for selfies by the fans or the boxers, which is just as well. And that's Michael Toeing. Michael, first of all, it's great to see you, Really great to see you. Great to see you too, Steve. Great also to see Michael. And I'm going to put it to you, what I put to Peter Hamlin, seems like hours ago now.

Michael's in better shape now than I think I've ever done him since the fight. I really mean that. He's verbally strong. He looks sharp. He's incredible shape. He really is. And it's just so, so wonderful to see. And it's just so uplifting.

He's just an incredible man. I mean, did you really think all those years ago when we were in call, And all those years ago, when I was in your offices in Hammersmith, I don't even know if they're still there anymore, where we were going through Ada Book and going through his legal stuff, and I was looking at my statement or whatever. Did you ever think that 26, 27 years later, after that happened,

that we'd be walking in the sunshine by Buckingham Palace with Michael Watson happy and smiling? I mean, come on, in your wildest dreams, Michael. Come on, tell the truth now. Not at all, Steve, not at all. But the one thing about Michael from day one that really, that really struck me was his positive attitude. And the fact he never had a negative thing to say about his injury,

never had a negative thing to say about any of the people in the build up to that, never anything negative about Chris Eubank. He's just such a positive person who feels that he was in some way blessed by being injured. And I just, his positivity has led to this moment, I think, and continues to lead to that. and he's just remarkable. He's 60 years of age. We can be doing this when he's 70. Absolutely.

He just defies all logic. But it's great. But he defies logic because he's still that charming, cheeky, but positive person. Oh, Michael. Let's go walk the final half mile with them. Thank you. Absolutely.

So that was Michael Tuig there, instrumental in getting Michael his money from the British Boxing Border Control. But more than that, a friend to Michael for an awful long time. Now we're getting close to the end of the walk here. We've stopped the traffic in the mall. We're gathering. We've maybe gone up to a crowd of maybe 200 now

from a crowd of 15 of us when we left. Seems like an awful long time ago way back on the edges of Hyde Park. Now, it's been a moving day. It's been a fantastic day, very emotional day, seeing all sorts of people. Next week, we will have... Hods each and every day as we get closer and closer to Connor Ben and Chris Eubank, Jr. The Sons.

Well, you heard Chris Eubank talking about the fight earlier on. Great to get some time with him. That's next week. We'll have specials, we'll have interviews, building up to the fight on that Saturday night. But as we come to the end of this, and it's only one man we can finish with. Only one man we can let sum up what it means to walk with so many people. that like him, so many people to support him. And that man is, of course, Michael Watson.

Michael, you've finished Michael's mile. What does it feel like? Fantastic. I'm a people's champion and I'm more than a gonvro. Ready for the next mile? I'm a winner. Crack.

Let's live to the jokes, mate. Thanks, Mike. I'm Ben Haynes. I'm Ellen White. And I'm Jen Biti. And on Tuesdays on the Football Daily, we bring you the Women's Football Weekly. As a manager, I'm really proud of my players and the performance they had tonight in the game. As we dive head first into all things WSL and beyond in the women's game.

It's very big now. It's very alive. There's a lot of fans and supporters. Women's Football Weekly, only on the Football Daily. Listen now on BBC Sounds.