5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Moses Itauma Returns

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Is Filip Hrgovic a step too far, too soon for Moses Itauma? Buncey sits down with the heavyweight prospect to discuss the biggest fight of his career so far, whether he's getting the recognition he feels he deserves, and why he believes he's ready for the challenge. We also hear from his manager, Francis Warren, and from Hrgovic himself.

This is Five Live Boxing. On August 29th, there will be a fight, a heavyweight fight at the O2 in London, between arguably the best prospect in the heavyweight division, Moses Itama, just 21, and Philip Hergevich, one of the top five heavyweights in the world. It's an old-fashioned fight. It's a real fight. It's a proper fight.

It's a massive test for young Moses. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. So you're following out by the Thames, the sun's out, in the background there's the O2 beach. Yes, the O2 beach, you can see it, Moses can see it. There's a beach at the O2, yeah. And then there's the O2 itself, there's the driving range. London's that way, Essex and the world is that way. Moses, you're gonna be topping the bill in there in a major fight against one of the top 10 heavyweights in the world,

and you're still a boxing baby, how's it feel? I've been getting called a kid, a baby. When you're 22, it all stops? Yeah. I'm man then. Fair enough. So when you're 21, where is it? It's man, don't worry.

It's definitely man. No, I mean, it's nice. It's a blessing. I just don't know. I feel like the old two is too close at home for me to feel like I'm going to be out of fight. They even asked me the other day, do you want to stay in a hotel?

Are you going to stay at a hotel? You're going to stay at yours? Because I only live like 20, 30 minutes away from the old two. So what will you do, fight week? I'm going to stay in the hotel because I like a I like a fight week vibe, you know? It's essential. Hergovich, I think, is a really hard fight.

I think so as well. If Hergovich was not this fight, but the fight after, I think it would be alright. What's your thinking with pushing for Hrgovic, so I know you did? No, it's just we had to think contractually, like, what fights could we make? And we had the Hurgovich and four other names. And a couple other fights that I asked for, and the fans asked for us as well. well, I asked if we can get them signed, but because different promotional companies,

because they're different countries and X, Y, Z, we couldn't make them fights happen. But Hurgovich is under Frank Warren. He was contractually supposed to fight me anyway, so it was just like, let's make that fight happen, you know. And he pushed for it. He was happy. My understanding, he was happy to push for it.

Of course. What I think Hurgovic does so well is he's done all of those things so well that some people are still waiting to see from you. What happens when you cut? What happens if you were dropped? What happens if you're pushed back? What happens if you're hurt?

What happens if it's a tough fight after five, six or seven rounds? Big Phil's been in all of those fights. Yeah, well, does that... So being cut, being dropped, being hit, makes you a good fight on. No, it doesn't make you a good fight. That is exactly the opposite of what makes a good fight on. But it gives you the experience for making sure you can handle those potential situations. But if you've...

If you've... You can be in a hundred fights and we're in a hundred and people are going to say, ah, but we're never so untested. Come on, man. Just appreciate that he's done good, you know? And you know what? That is a British thing.

You know, when Nassim Hamid finally lost after 35 fights, people said, see? Told you he didn't have it. He couldn't handle the pressure fights. See? People are just preying on downfalls, man. It's sad to see because...

Do you know what it is? I just think it's human nature for people to hate or to not like what they don't. have or to not experience. A form of jealousy. A formal jealousy. And I feel like a lot of people, you might be, let's say you are a nine out of ten

boxer as a twenty-one year old. Like rather than, rather developing into a ten out of ten boxer, they would love to exploit that one that you don't have, you know? Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely makes sense. So I just, I just feel like, I feel like there is a form of jealousy in people where they might have not experienced what I've experienced, like even like I'm just fighting in big shows at 20 years old.

Does that annoy you that exists or you just have to let it... No, because I've noticed I'd do it as well. Like when I see people like doing certain things that I can't do, it's only now that I realize that people do that to me, I have to stop myself from doing it. But it's just the form, it's a human trait. I feel like everybody has someone. more than others. And like, when I see somebody doing certain things that I can't do,

I'm like, do you know what? Like, at first I hate a number, then after some time I'll be like, do you know what, let me appreciate this, you know? And you, do you feel you are appreciated or I have appreciated? Because I'll come in first. I think you're appreciated. You might feel differently. I think you're appreciated.

What do you feel? If you would ask me this a couple months ago, I would have said no. But I do feel like I am. But whether or not I am, I'm not. Moses and Talma, still got to be Moses and Talma. Yeah. So it doesn't affect my job.

Did it change a bit with the finish in the Germain Franklin fight? Because it was the finish that was, because that was a genuine world-class, let's put up against any heavyweight finish. It was a proper finish. It was a good finish. Yeah, it was a good finish. I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the whole fight week. I enjoyed everything. I enjoyed the fight night. Yeah, man. I enjoyed everything. And going in against Hergovich, you said there was three or four on the list. Would Hergevich had been the man you chose? Yeah, that is who I chose.

Yeah, so it was the one you chose. And that was because you wanted him or it was available. Was it a bit of combination? Zach, am I allowed to tell him the other names? Yes, of course you are. Of the other names, if it wasn't Huggovich, am I allowed to tell the other names? Who else was on the list, Zach? I can't say the other names.

Can I guess 50 names, Zach? Can we do it that way? I guess 10 names and I'll tell you if they're... No, guess five names and I'll tell you. Uh, Jagba. Keep going. As in I'll tell you after you five. Frank Sanchez.

Keep going. Daniel Dubois. Keep going. Ajit Caballel. Keep going. Richard Torres, because it was before he got here on the chain. Okay, so you five names. Out of them, are like, nah.

Two of them are like, n-h. And then the rest of them are rubbish. I'm not going to say. That's what you're getting fat from. All right. Is there any chance we can send Zach for a paper or something, go and get us a coffee or something? Is that good, isn't it?

You don't know what? He did well there, Zach, thanks for that, mate. I'm contractually not allowed to speak about it. You know what? That's not make or make. But they were good names. They were Hergovich-style names. Yeah.

That's what we need to know. Okay, so it was, was there a sense, and do you get a sense that people think this is your biggest test? I mean, I think it is your biggest test. It is, but you get a sense that people are giving you respect for taking you? or having Hergevich. No, but wherever I get respect or don't get respect,

your career is only appreciated once it's done. Very rarely do people actually get appreciation. That's the Lennox Lewis story. And they rarely ever get appreciation while their career is ongoing. What could you do to maybe change the way people view you? Or is it above your remit? That's not, that's not my, it's not my job to do that. There's, I think I read it in a book the other day,

I'm trying to think, task separation, separation of tasks. Yeah. And trying to get people to like me, that's not my task. Your job is to fight. Exactly. To get in the ring fit and to win. Exactly.

And not only that, I have a following, I have a family, I have a strong surname. My job is also to represent that surname correctly or in a manner that it's not frowned upon, you know. Do you still, are you enjoying it as much as you were when you were a little bit younger? I know you're still only 21, I know that. But there was a point when you were, say,

when we first started doing interviews, you were very much young at the game and sort of couldn't wait to get into the next fight. Do you still have that kind of youthful enthusiasm? Do you still feel you have it, man? No, man, I feel old, but I started drinking coffee and it's a slippery slope son

it's a game change that coffee's a game changer what's your cutoff point in the daytime for coffee I just have coffee every morning though yeah but you see you don't go wouldn't go and have coffee at 4 o'clock in the afternoon would you no no no no I was I won't sleep at yeah okay I've got sleeping problems anyway

if I have a coffee at 4 o'clock and sticking with coffee because I know about this so I had to buy myself a really fancy machine so I grind it and heat the milk have you got round to that yet I've got a coffee machine at home yeah but I still like to go to a drive-thru and do it that way

What's going to happen on fight night with Hergovich on the opposite side of the ring? That place in their 18,000 expectant fans, and they've come for you. They've come to see you move closer to a world title. What do you visualize, or do you not visualize, Moses? I can imagine there's going to be a difficult fight, but I feel like I have the possibility for it to be victorious in my manner. You train to get lucky, and the more you train, the lucky you get. But there's also a...

That's the truth. But there's also a possibility where you might just be unlucky. So I hope I'm victorious. Yeah. And I don't like asking fighters this, but I always have to ask them. Where are you looking down the road post Hergevich? It's a world title. Yvesig or Daniel Dubois.

Cabell would be good as well. I would like Cabell in Germany. That would be... In Germany? That would be good. 20,000 in Berlin? I thought it's from Dostledov, no? No, but it doesn't, wherever you go outdoors in Dostledov

where Tyson beat Clitschko, 50,000 with a roof. I just, do you know what? Like, the one thing that I missed as an amateur, I trained and fought everywhere. Like, had the world championships in Spain, had the Europeans in Romania, Bulgaria, done competitions in Germany, went on training camps of Wales.

Wow. You fancy bang back on the road? Yeah, man. Like I said, all the arena is that, 30 minutes from me. So it's just like, I don't know, it's just everything's so familiar. I don't want to experience life, you know?

So sticking with that, do you in your head see a big Las Vegas fight? Do you in your head see a massive Madison Square Garden fight? Madison Square Garden, yeah. Las Vegas, I don't know. I just never seen it. The garden, you fancy that. A bit of history.

Yeah, yeah. I can see New York in me. I don't know about Vegas. Walking in the footsteps of giants in New York. I don't want to create my own, but, yeah. Yeah, that'd be nice, yeah. I'll go to ask you a simple question Football question

How are England doing now How far will they go What's your gut feeling most Are you a massive football fan Do you have loads of players in the team know you So they know you but do you know them I appreciate football I wouldn't say I'm a fan of it

But I do appreciate it I mean It's the biggest It's the biggest sport in the world It's played by everyone Everybody knows at least one player. So yeah, I would say that I appreciate the sport 100%. But I wouldn't say I know too much. You're having a good time at the moment, on you? Life's treating you well, isn't it? Life is laughing.

Yeah. Yeah, you're in Spain, you're sitting here by the O2, you're smiling, you're 21. It's good going, eh? Life's good, man. So that was Moses there sounding, well, you know, sounding like Moses has has sounded lately, sounding different than it used to be when he was that 16-year-old. boy forever. Now a man that's been with him since the start is Francis Warren, he's manager. First of all, Francis, let me welcome to it. What a great back job. We're not filming this, but over there's the O2, there's the Thames, looking cleaner than ever. The sun's out. It's as clear as ever.

Clear as ever. It's some fact of, eh? He's changing. He sounds different. He looks like a man now, but he's actually sounding more like a man. You know what I mean by that. Well, I mean, I'll remember an interview you did with him in Saudi. Four, when we're down by the pitch that time. Yeah, I remember, yeah. Down by the pitch side.

Yeah. And I remember listening to him doing that interview with you, and I thought to myself, he's come on. Yeah. Where that man come from? Yeah. He's always been very, very, a studious guy. Yeah.

He has well read. You know, you can put him in a room with anybody, whether it's a room for the boxing journals or, you know, business. He'll survive. He's always got something, he's always got interesting things that he can, contribute to any conversation. He's a very, very intelligent guy. And add to that, he's a formidable presence,

not just because of the size of him, because of his aura. Yeah. Because he believes him what he's going to do. And he has got an aura. He has got an aura, right? He has got an aura, right? Absolutely.

He walks into the room, everyone looks up. Yeah. And it's the same aura that I think that, you know, your Messies, your Ronaldo's, your beckons, and, you know, and one guy I always go back to, and he's starting to remind me quite a lot of his Lennox. when Lennox walks into the room

I go, Regal thing, yeah. Lennox is here and I think he's his own man but he's definitely got that bit about him. Now, I think

Hergovich is a really tough test I was doing a pod after the last fight against Germain which was a brilliant win against Frankin I thought it was a great win fantastic finish

I love finishes like that and I thought listen, Hergovich is a great opponent but I thought he might be at least one down the line maybe even two down the line but you've taken him, you've accepted him.

Was there any... Did you have any thoughts about it or was there someone that might have been better that's tied up elsewhere, Francis? To be honest, he's been screaming for him. He has, isn't he? Yeah. And it was on, then it was off.

And when it was off, he was extremely disappointed, to say the least. You know, we were looking at a few other alternate opponents and things like that. But Philip, to be fair, he stood up to the plate, and he's a very happy man to do. He's got what he's asked for. Yeah.

I mean, listen, Moses is very happy, but Philip's also very happy. I'll hear from Philip a bit later on. He won't be on August the 30th, I'll tell you that. No, he might not be on August the 30th or late on the 29th. But, you know, what he's saying, you know, a quick chat in a lot, we're here for him in a second, but he was just saying, why have they taken it?

Why have they taken it? That was his kind of thinking. It's too soon. It's too soon. Well, that's, we talk about aura. Yeah. We talk about presence. We talk about belief.

And, you know, this, this 21-year-old young man. Still 21. Young man. How's he still 21? Young man from Chatton. Has he still 21? I know. He feels like he's been around forever as well.

He was 20 for five years, I swear. I mean, I first met him with 14, 15. Okay, yeah. That's why he's been around for, because for us, he's been six, seven years in the balcony watching fights. I've seen him go from, but even when he was, 1415. You still couldn't

call him a kid. No, of course not. He still had something about him. He was the biggest kid on the block, right? Exactly. I don't think he was

allowed to play rugby rugby pass out of 11. Yeah, I'd heard that as well. No, no, no jokes. I had heard that, yeah. He was too big to participate. But listen, he's just a,

he's a specimen. And he's one of those generational greats. He can be one of those generational grades. He's still got a lot of work to do. But he's well on course to be

to be talked about in the same breath as I've just said, Messi, Ronaldo, LeBron's and Tiger Woods, he can do it. He's just got to keep doing what he's doing and it will come. As a man that's noted him for, what, seven or so years now and has looked after him and guided him and had a say in the fights that have been chosen,

do you still have any reservations? Because as much as you know, we know where the talent has been and the ending of Jermaine Franklin was a proper ending, I mean, any heavyweight initially would be happy with those two shots. But in your mind, you know, you're boxing man, are there things like, you like to see, you know, just a little, you know, someone standing up a little bit more. Who?

Who? No, no, no. I know. That's the big argument. That's the thing. There's no middle ground. Maybe it is Big Philip. Maybe it is. There is no middle ground. If you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're considering Philip, you know, as, as, as, as that, I think this, this, this is, this is the crazy thing. This is the crazy, crazy, crazy thing. All, I love Derek to pieces, but Derek is, is, is the ultimate gatekeeper of the heavyweight division. Yeah. Yeah. No disrespect to them. But what would, what would happen on, you know, Moses and Derek now?

I wouldn't like to see it now. Right. Seven or eight years ago, maybe, but certainly not now. It would be a great slug fest. But it, but the fact of the matter is, Moses considers Philip Hergevich as the gateway to world level. Yeah. And, and that's the scary thing of the belief of this young man. Yeah. Because, because, I mean, if you think about it, who's above Hergovich in your, in your mind, you know, not putting you on the spot, but not putting you on the spot. I'm not going to hold you at a ransom. So I'll help me.

So Tyson Fury and AJ, because they're Tyson Fury and AJ. Ushik because he's Ucic. Fabio and Daniel, because they're Fabio and Daniel. Who else? Give it a route map. Give it a route map of the next fire fights in no particular order. There's no reason why it can't be.

Cabile, Dubois. Yeah. I mean, Anthony said he wants the fight. Yeah. Please, that would be amazing. Yeah. There's nobody in the top five of any of the world rankings governing bodies who you wouldn't fight?

That Moses wouldn't fight. Not one. Because earlier, was it last year, you thought that let Sanchez and Torres, when they were meant Frank Sanchez and Richard Torres, when they were meant to be fighting. You said, let them fight, then we'll fight the winner of that. Did you have an option? Didn't you have a chance to fight one of them, but that was two fights to go?

I think at the time though, Steve, if you look at that, then that's a timing thing. Because had he taken up the option then to... Since about timing. To fight Sanchez or Torres two fights ago, financially that's got to be a headline fight, but Moses wasn't quite there then. Yeah.

Now, let's do it. Yeah. I appreciate, I mean, right now, I mean, I know that the Dillian White was a quick blowout, but there was still something about his mentality going into the fight, still something about the chilling way he finished it. And as for the Jermaine Franklin,

I'm not having anybody tell me that they knew that would happen and it would happen like that. was brilliant finishing and it was he sort of didn't dismiss him because that would make it seem like Moses's disrespecting the opponents but he had no respect from again I don't want it to be you know in a negative way but he just knew he he thought with such confidence that it was inevitable what happened that's it's it's the um that that that but that is the the difference in these elite guys yeah in the belief that they have in the preparation they put into

it you know Moses got a fantastic team around him with Ben and Lee and all the guys in the gym who will have given them a game plan and that's the difference I think between elite and good being able to execute your game plan under pressure and a little bit of a personal thing now I've got a decent bit of tan and not a lot of hair you've got the same as me you're yours a show

but could I just say that your tan is a lot deeper than mine have you just been have you got the entire summer off are you just out doing like tanning with a silver tray or something I've spent a lot of weeks walking around Hatfield House, planning our new music festival. When's that? It's the 8th and 9th of August. We're bringing a new festival to Hartfordshire.

This is the first one, and be the first one? This is the first one, which is going to be an annual event. The first one's 8th and 9th this August. We've got Faithless and Dizzy Rascal headlining on the Saturday, and then we've got Ocean Colour Scene, feeder, hardfire on the Sunday. Go on, sir. Yeah, we're having a go. And then a couple of weeks later, it'll be in the ring with this.

And then, yes, it's a bit busy August. You say about going away all summer, no chance issue. No, no, no, no chance issue. November. November looks nice. You better be there, you know, with your glow sticks. Listen, I'm going to listen. You invite me anywhere there's a glow stick.

I'm going to be there. Listen, Francis, thanks so much for your time. Now, I did speak to Philip Hergovich, and I just love Big Phil. I think he's got a great sense of humour, but the one thing I did notice about him was how serious he looked and how serious his eyes were. Philip, thanks for your time. Let me ask you, did you pick Moses Itama? Was it your choice to fight him? I signed a multi-fight deal with Quincy.

And my first fight was obviously Dave Allen. And second five, I have like five names in the contract. Dubois, Wardly, Moses, Agit Cabell and Lawrence Socoli. So four of them are unavailable and Moses is interested into the fight and they offered me only him. So yeah, that's it. People are talking about Moses like he is the future of heavyweight boxing, like he is the champion already, like he is unbeatable, like he is untouchable. What do you think? We'll see. I don't know. Maybe he is. Maybe he is not. My job is to stop him to become champion, to become a superstar.

I mean, even if I beat him, he still has a lot of time to become future. Because he's so young. Yeah, he can box for next 15 years at least. So still, if I beat him, still, he can still have time to recover and to become champion and to become a force, you know, but we'll see, you know, how good he is. And I don't know. Really, we all don't know how good he is, you know. Has he impressed you when you've watched his fights?

No, because I never saw him in trouble, you know. I never saw him. He had like easy way, you know, from world, from youth championship to professionals, like, you know, easy fights becoming a already superstar in like a few, few guys who were over the top and who showed up in a bad shape and now he's like whole world talking about him. but I didn't see, you know, a real warrior. I didn't see him in trouble. So we, this, what he showed is good, you know. He showed speed and punching power and, you know, IQ and combinations. But we never seen him.

in trouble, you know, and that's the boxing is about, you know, when you are in trouble, to get up and to continue to fight. When you are cut, when you are dropped in the first round, when you are against the odds, that's when we see it. We have seen none of that with him, you're right. Yes, we didn't see so. We didn't see so. Britain, Great Britain, is a new hero.

Anthony Joshua is out. Tyson Fury is out in few fights. Wurley and Dubois, they are not stars. They are champions but they are not big stars. The big difference between big star and champion, you're right. Great Britain need a star like Joshua was or is like Tyson Fury was. So Great Britain boxing industry need to make money. That's why they need a star, big star.

So Moses is there, they're building a new star. So we'll see, you know, is he a hype job or is he a real deal? So I think a lot of things have done through this marketing and commercials and, you know, hyping that. lot of things has done in that way, so we'll see is here real deal. So if you had to put him on a set of scale, say you're weighing him, so is it with you, is he more hype job or is he more unknown? What do you think?

Is it more, which way would it be? In your head, Philip? I think it's unknown. Does that make him dangerous being unknown? Like I said, he could be a next great fighter, of course, but he need to show chin, endurance, you know. Fifth round, six round, seven. And to adjust to everything, you know. And we don't know.

Maybe he is something, like I said, in previous. interviews. In my 20 years of boxing, I boxed with everyone in amateurs, in sparring, in professionals. So I never came into the ring and I never felt like I don't have a solution. Like I never felt like that things are out of my hands. Because you'd been there before. Yeah, I always, with every opponent, I always, I had hard fights, I had, you know, troubles, I had the struggle, but I always felt strong inside. I always felt I have solution, you know, I always felt I'm dominating the fight. I always felt like, you know, this opponent who I'm facing is not something I never saw

before. So if this kid is going to make me feel like that, that I come into the rig and I see what power is this, what speed, I don't have solution, you know. If this is going to make me, if he's going to make me to feel like this, then he's special, you know. But like I said, I never felt like that way. I fought Olympic champions, world champions, European champions as part, Klichko, everyone, you know, I always felt, you know, good in style.

So you knew some rounds you lose, some rounds you win. Of course. But always competitive. So if this kid is so good that he makes me feel like I don't have a solution. So good. Congratulations, kid. Your next great guy. And I'm going to, you know, to buy a boat and to...

Sail around the coast. Yeah. It's a nice coast, admittedly. Buy some nice car and relax. That's very honest of you to talk that way. What do you think will happen, first bell? And are you, Philip, the type of boxer that likes to look into your eyes of your opponent, to get a sense of who they are?

Do you like to do that? Or do you just think, forget it, ding, ding, we fight. I think it's not important, you know, like what I see in his eyes, what he's seen in my eyes. sometimes maybe it can give you some hint but it's it's not important it's like ring is a reflection of your life of your everything of your training of your life of your talent of your mentality so you cannot you know trick you cannot cheat into the ring so it's not about like dangerous look or something like that. And finally, Philip, the world heavyweight title is still something you dream about.

After Moses, it's still something you won't even know we have no idea who will be the champion and which belt you would fight for. Still is your dream, world heavyweight title. Oh, you did it. You see this? Yeah, I did. Actually, I think I think I throw it more high. No, no, if you don't mind me saying so, and I like you, I think mine was clearer, cleaner than yours.

But I draw it higher. Would you want to have one more go? You want to do it? One more round, man. Who goes first? Who goes first? Me or you? You.

Philip, it's been a pleasure talking to you. The last question is, it was about winning the title, winning the world title, just becoming the world champion. Because it's been a long time, 20 years of Philip Hergovich in major tournaments, major sparring, major fights. But you're still young, 34 is not old, still young. Do you still dream of winning world titles? Of course, man. You're crazy or what? Good.

Well, possibly, maybe. For asking that question, maybe crazy. Of course, I'm dreaming. And this is, I mean, this is crucial fight. The biggest fight of my life and crucial fight for me, if I bid this guy already in contract, is that I'm going to challenge WBO title. but even if he's not in contract, I'm going to be in the top position to face anyone.

Daniel Dubois again? Oh, that will be awesome. Imagine beating Moses and then rematch with Dubois and becoming a champion. That will be awesome, man. So, amazing. Final, final question. Last week, England, Croatia, but Croatia is still in the World Cup. Are you a massive football fan?

Look, for every goal that we received, I'll beat your one guy. So, Joyce, Adelaide, Alan, and now Moses. And then Dubois. Yeah, it's not bad. It's a five-a-side team. It's a team. So I must give bidding for every goal to one of your guys. Is that fair enough?

So that was Philip Hurgovich there, and just for the record, and I'll say this now because Philip's gone, I threw my microphone higher in our tumbling microphone competition. I know that's not necessarily great radio, but I assure you, mine was higher and I caught it cleaner. But Big Philip said he won, and who am I to argue, with a man who weighs 19 and a half stone who's 6'7? And reached a, you know, he's been Olympics and got medals, as they say in the trade.

He's a top fighter. Thanks to Big Phil. Thanks also to Francis Warren and good luck with his great fate weekend festival at the start of August. And thanks of course obviously to Moses Itama. And I like the look of Itama. I know it's a long way out from a fight. But if you told me he was fighting on Saturday, I'd believe you. I'm Steve Bunce.

I've been down by the Thames. I've been out by the sun. I'm looking across at the O2 Beach. Proper place to do a podcast. And this has been Five Live Boxing. I'm Steve Bracknell, host of Games Gone, the Steve Bratnell podcast. What's my favourite World Cup moment as a fan? I have to say Michael Owen skinning the whole of the Argentina defence

and cracking it in top corner for the very short space of time, I believe. My favourite World Cup player in history, it won't be popular, but I'm going to say Diego Maradonna. All right, he humbled it. But the guy was a complete genius. The People World Cup 2026. on BBC Sounds.