5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Parker’s Pain, Cameron’s Protest and AJ’s Next Move

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Was Zach Parker robbed of victory against Joshua Buatsi? Barry Jones joins Buncey as the fallout from Manchester rolls on. We hear from Parker. And the debate over three-minute rounds for women is back after Chantelle Cameron vacates her WBC belt in protest over inequality in the sport. So what’s the solution? And could Anthony Joshua be back into the ring before the end of the year?

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Pockethose.com slash P-O-D-C-A-S-T. This is Five Live Boxing. I'm not sure where to start. It's a new month. Big first Saturday, big few weeks to come. Here right now, there will be Joshua Barazzi, Zach Parker debate. A bit of Chantelle Cameron, some Anthony Joshua speculation, Pat Brown in Orlando, tank in and out with Jake Paul. Hey, hold on a minute, it's a hybrid, crossover exhibition, real fight, side show.

I don't care, whatever it is. It's still boxing news. Just, I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. So that's the shopping list, so to speak. Those are the fights, those are the fighters, those are the stories that we're going to be covering. I'll say we, of course, you need the top man for a gig like this. She needs a man that's been there and done it and seen it, or more importantly, was ringside three feet away on Saturday at the Boatsey and Park.

That man is, of course, the much in-demand Barry Jones. Still, Barry, I have to say, with the splint on your right wrist from your tumble a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Well, I think it's broken. I've brought my hand a few times to know it was broken. I haven't been to the hospital. That's the problem. People were wondering why, if you've stuck the splint on, you think it's self-diagnosed.

I mean, is this a new line for you? What are they going to do? And also, kind of flying a lot. It's putting it in plaster. It's real pain and it's going through security every time. And I just think that it'll heal. I've got to be careful if the bone doesn't heal the wrong way, of course. Yeah, of course.

And your hands sticking out a wrong angle like a zombie or something. I'm so close to the end, no, no, who cares? You know what I mean? Have I shown you my fingers? Look at that finger there. Yeah. I noticed it about a year ago. Big, bend, big, twisted finger.

Anyway, it's not. Great pod there's. Let's not worry about bendy, twisty fingers. Let's get straight to ringside. We're talking a little bit about the Lyndon Arthur fight, a little bit about the Liam Cameron fight, but it was the co-op in Manchester. One of my favourite arenas,

Boatzi, Joshua Boatzi against Zach Parker. Ten rounds, not great rounds, not a great fight, not an exciting fight, not a thrill of second fight. At the end of it, one judge returned a drawn verdict, and two judges returned. turned a 96-94 in favour of Boatzi, the so-called house fighter.

First of all, I'll ask you, because I haven't actually spoke to it, how did you see it? Because you were part of the zone team. Yeah, I was. Which, I'm told, thought it was, well, there we go. You go, you tell me. No, yeah, we all thought, though, Carl's card had it, I think he had maybe only one or two rounds to Boatzi, which I wouldn't have argued with, to be fair.

Is that because Parker was dominant, or Parker just won the rounds? It was a scrappy fight, Steve, and I think, you know, and he was, but he was stealing rounds. I mean, whether you win a round big or win it close, you're still winning the round, don't you? And, yeah, and he was just boxing fantastic. He really well. I did say at the end of the start of the last round,

I said, listen, we have to be aware that sometimes, and I call it the me weather syndrome. A fighter's doing better than what you think he's doing. Yes. So you might be thinking he's winning the rounds, but he's actually not. Like a sympathy vote. Well, because you're getting wiped out.

And you're doing well, I'll give him that round. But it wasn't that. I don't think it was. I did say that. I did say to start the last round, talking to all the guys. on the comedy, yes, it was enough of us. There's about 11 of you at no one.

It's a full football team, isn't it in the moment? It's an ensemble, now we're called. Oh, no, ensemble? I think you might be bigger an ensemble. I'm not complaining. You might be a philomonic. Well, without that, I don't have a job. I don't tell you that much.

But I said, you know, because let's be honest, we all thought Pwasty was going to win this fight comfortable. Dominate comfortable. Yeah, and we did. And then, yeah, absolutely. It certainly did.

It was a great fight for the fight back after Callum Smith, but we all thought he would win. And Adam Smith said, badly. I didn't. I thought that Parker could have potentially given a really hard fight and beat him and I don't think he believed that. I think he just said that to be clever because

Parker was winning the fight. Oh, he said it after the fight? Well, he said that going into the last round but I mean because we all thought Parker was walking it. But either way, if he thought that, he was the only one because us three then, three boxers, we all thought that it was Boatzi's fight to lose from the offset.

But Boatzi did what Boatzi does. Yes. Fight at his own pace. Yes. Methodical pace. And it can be effective at times when someone comes to engage,

but when they don't, he struggles. And I think that my biggest criticism of Boatzi since he turned professional, and I've said this so many times the phrase, he needs a rocket of his backside.

Yeah. And it's not disrespectful to him or disparaging to anything where he does. No, I think it's a technical expression that absolutely captures what Joshua Brazzi is needed for a good few years.

Only because what I saw. Even in victory. And maybe my memory of him in the Olympics is maybe tarnish. or clouded now but he was more aggressive and he looked like

he was vicious he looked like an Avanda Hollifield type of come forward blocking counter type of fighter and I thought out of all the ones in that 2016 Olympics and by the way

that was a good Olympics no the transition to professional game the fighters we've had from there especially you think the two guys that went on after that and reached the Olympic final Pat McCormack and the FI

so two repeat offenders if you don't mind me saying so yeah exactly yes you know and believe like Even like people of Joe Cordina. They just forgot. Yeah.

You know, they won a World Title, of course. So, you know, it's like he looked like the one who's going to be a good professional. If anyone was getting to World Title, it's him. That's what I saw straight away. And I still believe that when he turned pro, but I just think he just needed a different mindset. And then you've got a guy who's a really thoughtful fighter

going with a really thoughtful trainer and Virgil Hunter. And I just never thought that was a great fit when it happened. So did Boetsi not show, you know, One of the things about not being ringside is you can't see eight feet away. I want to see, was Virgil Hunter looking at his eyes and spurring him on saying, you need these last four, five, six rounds, three rounds. Equally, was Errol Johnson in the opposite corner spurring on Zach Parker?

See, like, I always say... Important 60 seconds, those are. They are, mate, they are. And I always say, you know, the trainers are only as good as his fighter. And I believe that to the day I die. But I also do say a trainer's worth his weight in gold. so I can't critic, over-criticise the trainer about the performance, because it's down to the fight at the end of the day.

Yes. But you've got a, Vuselhunter didn't get in the ring. Maybe you got medical issues. Of course he stays outside the ring, doesn't he? I don't know. The medical issue is tall, so he's against someone like me. You wouldn't need to. But I mean, but atsy's also tall.

I mean, you, sometimes you've got to fight it in the eye. And put this way, in the last round, L. Johnson in the other corner, and I thought, in my opinion, and Parker just to stay, for the last round. He's saying, you win this round,

you've won this fight. And he's right in his speech, and he's not shouting, he's not screaming, but his eyes are piercing down a packet. And your life changed. To keep that focus, to go,

this is it for you, though. This is, you've got three minutes to change your life. I'm paraphrasing. But that's what he means. Whatever he's saying,

that's what he means. Just win this round. This is all you have to do. Your whole career is on winning this round. Your life will change. You just beat the guy, you know,

who everyone's been talking for greatness. Who, by the way, is being matched already with the winner of the Anthony R. David Benavides, whether that's going to happen a lot. The bottom line is, that was the storyline, that was the tagline. This was the Bonsbach fight after Callum Smith. Absolutely. Which was a phenomenal

fight. It was, it is for him now because he'll still go on and fight for a big fight because he's a bigger name. And for someone I pack and he has to bring the doors down a bit. I can empathise with that, certainly. But Vilderlhan, there wasn't. He was a little bit more force than the last round, but not like his advice, I think.

It was muffled. I couldn't hear it all correctly. But we're still not enough. And he's not looking at him, not in the ring with him. He's not almost smack him in the face or whatever he needs. And there was no sense of urgency. But he's nasty, I think. He can be nasty.

No, no, no. He needs to be nasty with almost like a sadistic, menacing approach. Because he's good, technically good. And he can punch hard. And he's neat and he keeps his shape. And he blocked, by the way, he blocks a lot of shots. And he blocked a lot of shots from Parker on Saturday.

He really did. But ultimately, Steve, he lost. lost the fight. He lost a fight. He did. And I think Parker feels really hard. No, he didn't. The judges gave you to him. I did say after, though, I'm on a run here. I did say after. We did a little show after the show to reassess what's going on. And I did say, as a boxing collective, we only need to sit down, I would say, with the judges and the boxing board and find out what criteria they're looking for. Because in the last few weeks, this is not the first time. We won the first time on the night where we were talking. totally different to them. No, the judges are doing one... It can happen. But the judge is doing one job. They're all are doing this.

They're not watching the fight for enjoyment. They're watching it just a judge. So they're seeing more than worse. They're concentrating more than we are, as commentators and as spectators, and as cornermen, because you're just watching what your fight is doing right and wrong, not always what's really going on in the whole fight.

But still, it's really different. And it's been, I guess, for a few weeks now. And I think... If we know what the British Boxamo rules out to what they have to look at, then maybe we... Maybe we're looking at the wrong, even though we're thinking he's been in the fight, so the criteria of scoring, maybe we're getting it wrong.

But only one of the three judges was British boxing board of control, if I'm not mistaken. Whatever the rules are. And that might be different. And I agree with you completely. Perhaps we do need to sit down on the judges. Because what we don't need to do is just do the sitting casual abuse, abuse, abuse, conspiracy theories, they're rubbish, they're this, that and the other. Just to let you know about the way the judges had it.

They only scored five rounds in agreement, five rounds they scored in agreement. and three of those were for Bratsey, two of those were for Parker. Now, you mentioned there about Errol Johnson getting in Zach Parker's face and telling him this is one round to change your life. Well, when the fight was over, Zach Parker was upset, very upset. And here's a clip of Parker talking to the stomping grounds, Oscar Bevis. Just fuming, mate. The game plan went down to say, he just out-boxed him.

He didn't have the legs, didn't have legs for what I could do. I jabbed him all night literally every single person I've spoke to said I beat him See him in the zone He won one round together I can't I should be changing my family's life now

That's what I'm in boxing for Just to get me better off in life It also takes me Take it away from my own joke It's a few man can't even think When you've got three X world champions on there Carl Frampton Barry Jones

Darren Barker saying that you won the fight I'm sure that when you left the ring There are others from different broadcasters and outlets, fans and experts, whatever, telling you you won the fight. Can you even really swallow that silver lining when you're tonight walking away with a loss in the column?

Just look at my reaction when it finished and look at his reaction. His head was down. I knew I won. I knew I won. I may end up, you know, well, I ex-world champion saying he won one round. Why did the judges do this to people?

I should be changing my family's life. I've got another child on the way. You think this is the thing that people, maybe judges, even don't realize it's okay when you're in the arena and there might be a bad decision. But when you go home and you're from a shot. I've got a deal with this now. I should have won that title and going on to bigger and better things and getting better, bigger than farts and bigger money facts. I'm not in this to, if I could get paid doing something else, I would be doing it. It's a hard game, man.

And I've worked my whole life first. I've been to the underdog all my life. Even when I was amateur, we beat everyone on GB. I still didn't get picked for GB because of where I'm from. And I've done it all through my pro career. I've come up from the bottom on small shows. This was the biggest fight in my life,

and everyone could see I've won that. How many rounds do you think Joshua had won? I got him, like, probably one round at the start. But then his legs just went, and they couldn't even keep up. My movement was spot on. I was out jabbing the whole night. night?

What about they did not look to is there like a box box of like how many punch landed couldn't even in the inside of couldn't even in the inside he couldn't even land any shots

and more elbows than shots in headboards I mean you have just left the ring to perhaps it is a bit soon but would you do about this I mean is there an inquest that you and your team

can before I don't know the processes but I'm sure this probably doesn't end this doesn't end in this changing room right I could open up I could like put a like go to the boxing board

like requesting or whatever, but what does that do? You've seen other people getting robbed and they never got nothing to change back to him. I don't know, mate. I should be changing my daughters laugh now. She's screaming, mate. So that was a very emotional, Zach Parker talking to Oscar Bevis of the stomping ground. Barry, I put it to you, okay, listen, of course it would have been great for Parker, had he won, everyone feels he won, including him,

obviously not Joshua Baratzi and not the Joshua Baratzi team. Okay, but the outcry, had he just lost a routine decision? Had he just lost it, you know, even if it was tight, had he just lost it, you know, genuinely lost it and it hadn't been a great fight. Sack Parker falls off a bit of a cliff. He has an awful lot going for him now. There's an awful lot of people,

and the outcry is not necessarily the worst thing in the world. Will he get a rematch? Unlikely. But will he vanish? No. There's plenty of people and fights that can be made for him. They are, but I mean, but you go with a rematch. in with more...

High profile loss. But you're going in with more of a baking ball, Steve. I mean, that win for him is... I mean, it's a bigger drop for Boazzi because of the... No, he's taking much less money what he's used to. And, but I mean, for Parker now,

I know, like, he gets a sympathy vote, but that disappears very quickly because they are matches. They are already, you know, a match in Boazzi for bigger fights again. Well, perhaps the army of people that think he won that fight 9-1 could all get together

and form a federation of forum and keep the profile there. doesn't vanish. Nobody's, nobody... If you want to be brutally honest. No, but what I mean is,

is that, no, markability-wise, it was always better for everyone. It's not corruption. I'm not trying to say that, but it was that Boatsi wins. Of course,

that was the storyline. He's easier to make a bigger fight with a bigger name fighter than Zach Parker. That's just how life is. But it does change Parker's life. Because if he wins a close win, he definitely gets a rematch.

Yes. By the way, if that ends up been a really tight fight and he nicks it, then he does it. every gets a rematch for more money. Would you push if you're at Parker's people for a rematch? Well, of course you would.

Because, again, that's probably the biggest fight for him now. But I'll pick up a title somewhere if you can. I mean, that sort of thing. You know, there was a European title fight on that night. Yeah, I want to talk about that. Brad Ray and Lyndon Arford, that was a good fight. And that was a really good fight. And also, yeah, Cameron, Troy Jones.

That was a good fight as well. Yeah, but I mean, for Zach Parker, I wouldn't be on it. I wouldn't be looking to go backwards. I'd be looking to go forward. So going for Lyndon Arthur's European title now would be, it's a really hard fight by the way and by the way, he was fantastic in the half

as was Bradley Ray, I thought. I thought he worked really well. He just wasn't good enough at the end. That was all. Faded the last two rounds. You see, a loss like that is heartbreaking, but you also got the solace

I had a goal, I just fell a bit short and you have to just, and that's part of life. But I mean, when you've done enough, you think, and everything should have done enough and more than enough,

that maybe things, for Parker, everything should do more than enough and you don't get it. Yeah. That injustice thing is sometimes hard to swallow. You see all bitter fighters out when we retire, Steve, because of all the things that didn't turn out.

Yeah, I mean, to have it within your career is a heartbreaking thing and a real hard thing to adjust. Certainly when you're not a superstar name, that's going to guarantee top in the bill in your next fight back. Like an anti-Josha loses, and it's terrible for him. It breaks his heart, and it ruins him for a while. But financially, America Magna, and all the rest of it,

you're coming back topping a bill. So, back, just the fact, If you had to put it in one sentence, forget where Parker goes, forget where Barrazi goes. Because, you know, I mean, Barraxie's got the win and in theory stays on track for a Benavide's yard or a similar style world title fire. And that's all very good. But it doesn't actually leave that ring on the shoulders of his corner men and all the fans. So if you had to put it in a sentence, what would you, if you were looking at it, what would you try and do to do to, make us better aware of what the judges want to see

and so that we can maybe understand what the judges return. Because as you say, it's not the first time there's been scores. There was a Rees-Belotti fight recently. They're really divided people. I can't put in a sentence, unfortunately. I think the problem is, is boxing is all subjective because you'll have a parameter on a criteria

of how to score a fight. But then it is your preference. Quality of a quantity is always the biggest battle with boxing. if you wouldn't me with a big shot but I eat you with 10 light shots what counts what wins me in the fight if that's all that happens and it depends on the effect of your big shots

I would always argue that I always think clean punches on the target supersede big shots but if you wobble me with a big shot that might be enough then if you walk around then for like a zhang for two minutes 50 seconds the rest of the round do nothing

but how much wobble I mean you have to wobble and hit the back rope you know what I'm saying do you have to just stutter stand and it shouldn't matter but what time of the fight that happens. I mean, this is a podcast on its own, so I won't delve too far into it.

But if we have a more of a standard which are we don't, it's amazing, of what the judges have to look for, whether it be the British Boxing Port, the European Commission, whatever they call Union, WBC, WBC, W, W, B, F, W, W, F, W, W, B, B, F, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, whatever, the title's on the line,

then we as broadcasters should put, before every title fight, should put a brief outline, and so, again, someone like whoever's at whoever, someone like you, like an old man. I'm joking. So this is the criteria of a score and a fight

and you do bullet points. It takes two minutes and you explain what the judges are looking for and then we have an informed audience and then when we're watching fights, we can be really outraged them and we don't see what we're supposed to see. I think I'm going to speak to Robert Smith

and get maybe Howard Foster in because he came under some criticism for the stoppage the last week of the Parker and Fabio Wardley fight and maybe getting a couple of his judges who in the past, have been criticized. And maybe do an off-the-record sit-down and see what we can use.

Can I just say one thing? Sorry. Cause I'm. Is when somebody says to me, I watched it back, I just go, no, no, no, no. I'm on your side. Because a judge and a referee and a broadcaster and the audience live, everyone else. Depends of what angle you look at it. That's a number of expression you can't use.

But that's sort of true, but it is, but you only see what you see. Not in repeat. No, no, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. And what your first impression is, you have to go with that. because the judge can't change his mind. So do I. The referee can stop the fight and go out,

looking back and maybe I was a bit early or a bit late. He does what he feels then. So if you didn't think of it was an early stoppage when it happened, you can't cry about it. Yeah, and once you've seen a replay, even then you can't say it. I mean, your first reaction, your first view of anything

has to be the only thing that matters. Barry, we've got to crack on because we've got half a dozen things we've got to do. I know. I knew this would happen. It doesn't matter. This will work in a way. I want to take you just briefly if we can,

sticking with Saturday night's fights, Orlando, Florida. Pat Brown against the veterans, veteran, veteran, Felix Valero did it in two rounds. Pat Brown moves to five and zero, talking about all sorts of things. You know, I've been a Pat Brown, I'm not being an half-time, I've been a Pat Brown fan long, long, long before he was even selected for the Olympics.

He's growing into it, he likes it, he can fight. He's talking about perhaps fighting the winner of the John Hedges and Ellis Zorro fight which takes place in a couple of weeks time that's good. Here's a fight I want to see him in Barry and I'm warming you up for where we're going later in the pod

so don't lose your mind. Tommy Fury against Pat Brown. Come on Barry. That's a great fight. It is a good fight. No, it is. I like it. I know.

I like it. Some Bed City. But I don't think Tommy's really still playing with boxing in a minute. And I understand. I don't blame me. He's a celebrity and just in them. Just, listen.

I know we're boxing purists, but you know, I don't get hands. I don't get angry about all that. If you're earning money, carry on. You're not getting hurt. All the best of you. But Pat Brown,

is that sort of fighting, but I don't think you can hold him back. But be careful not to rush him. I mean, I'm not quite on the Pat Brown train. I think he's a talent, and he's massive for the weight, but he's powerful,

but he's not the hardest target to find. That's always a problem in that way to class. So I'd just be aware of just learning your trade a little bit. That's all. That's all. I think he's a real talent and potentially is

a world championship material. But yeah, so, no, the fight you mentioned, the Zoro Hedges fight, I think that's a good one. Yeah, so no way.

That's the, that's the, that's the, that is rushing in, that. But I'm not rushing him too much. But I do, I do like the British cruisers.

I really do. And I just feel we, I think we could have a good 2026. It's been a great week for a long time, haven't it for 20 or years, haven't it? It's been great fun.

I just want to mention about Jordan Thompson, who lost to the Cuban, lennie Apero, Top of the bill there. And Perro obviously is under, you know, he's under a bit of pressure to be the Cuban, the first Cuban to do this and that and the other. And he's a big Cuban heavyweight.

And we kind of forget the big Cuban heavyweight. That's the thing from the 70s and the early 80s to be on. But that's not ever here or there. We like a bit of fun. He's unbeating in 13. I didn't realize. I thought Thompson had sneaked to fighting. He hasn't sneaked to fighting since he lost to Giopatatai, which was in September of 20, 23.

Now he's at 6'4, 32 years of age, up at heavyweight. Hey, listen, he might be, he might be a half. might be half an addition to the British heavyweight scene. He didn't look like a cruise weight moving up. No, he didn't, did he? He's taken that time out to get his body right. Yeah, arm. Crowing into it.

I don't think there's any more that you can do. Put on any more way you can put on. He looks fantastic. And also, I thought he boxed really well. So do you not have... I don't think he's getting enough respect to be honest. I don't think Perro is the biggest puncher, but he's a clean punch, correct puncher.

And he's a big old heavyweight. And he hits you a punch. He hits you and you're not respecting it as well. He's quite fast. It's a Cuban thing, Barry boy. So he'll punch off your shots. And he took him well, Thompson, and he dug in there. And I thought, oh, there's a couple of times if I thought, oh, this is what I thought

was going to happen, he was going to weigh him down and stop him. And it didn't. See, with Thompson, he moves up the heavyweight and they sell him as a former World Title Challenger, which would suggest he was world class. And they're not having to go with him here. But we know what happened. But he was a world class. He got thrust.

He got thrust up to the World Title Shop. But he wasn't right. If you would have said Thompson's box for a British title at that point, you would have gone, oh, it's a bit soon, good luck to him. Then you got a world title show against him, he's up, but tired of all people. So, you know, he's not really, he hasn't really had the steps, the steps to get to world class. So when he, so I thought this was, they were chucking him in,

and another one chucking him in, and there was too soon. But I actually really liked him as a heavyweight, and I think he's going to be a better fighter. You know, it's really weird, Barry. You and I didn't confer on that at all, we both come to the exact same opinion. And obviously, Pat Brown, I mean, you're maybe not as in, as me, but maybe that will change.

And Valero, I love Valero. Look at some of the locations and the fights Valeros had. He's one of those guys. I mean, you just imagine he travels with a gum shield, a jockstrap, and some bandages. Okay, Barry, there's still plenty to come. Chantelle, IEJ, Jake and Tank. Yes, I said Jake and Tank, don't get carried away. And also, I'm going to get your pick of November fights.

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They analyze market trends, interest rates, comps. They can tell you about flood zones, mixed use zones, and decode acronyms like HOA, APR, MLS. They connect you to lawyers, contractors, even Phil, the Sewer Scope guy. They negotiate, coordinate, advocate for you, close the deal with you, and hand the keys to you. They bring you home. Real Tours are members of the National Association of Real Tours, right by you. So Barry, one thing that came up in the last 48 hours,

Chantel Cameron, giving back the WBC Super Lightweight Light, Waterweight belt that she was given last month, I think. She was giving it. She had it for four weeks. There was a purse bid for Sandy Ryan, which was cancelled at the last minute. She decided to hand back the belt. She said, I've always believed in equality,

and that includes the choice to fight equal rounds, equal opportunities and equal respect, she said. She didn't add their equal pay because that's the real debate. She wants to fight three-minute rounds. The WBC are not keen on her fighting three-minute rounds. MVP's Nekisa Bidarion has obviously backed her as he would. And so she's given up the belt. She wants to chase the three minutes.

It's been a regular, irregular debate on this pod in the last four or five years, the two minutes v three minutes. I can't remember where you stand on it. And I'm not looking for controversy. No, no, no. I think they should... First of all, I think they should have the choice. But I would also say, men didn't have the choice

if we did three or two-minute rounds. Like, maybe I'd be better two-minute rounds. Do you start on four twos or six-twos? No, I think. Do you do any twos? Yeah, I think six-two is my first fight, yeah. But either way... Yeah, yes, you're relevant. But, I mean, they should have the choice.

If there's some sort of medical reason why they can't do two-minute rounds, I don't know why they don't do three-minute rounds. I mean, they didn't mention equal pay, but equal pay doesn't exist in boxing. No. Because why... Otherwise, why don't I get the same as Lennox Lewis?

Absolutely. There's an obvious reason for that. But also, you know, there's a responsibility, like in any new path of the sport for it to be pushed to the limelight a bit more. Yes. Because you can't say,

no one watches you, but no one's given the opportunity to watch us. And the same way, flyways, no one watches us. But then, you know, if you give an opportunity to watch them, then you say, oh, good they are, and you might want to watch them.

There's no choice. I mean, so you're given the choice. But if there's a lot of women who want to do three-minute rounds, then why should they be allowed to? There would be more stoppages. There also would be more fights that weren't as good. Yes, because a lot of the, if you look at, say, I don't know, I looked at half a dozen different women

and looked at their last four or five world title fights. And just about every single one of the women, in fact, not just about every single one of the women I looked at. Like, for instance, I looked at Ellie Scottney, just quickly on. She's with MVP. She's got a WBC title. She was meant to be defending. later this month, that fight's been cancelled.

She, in theory, fights in January. I was looking at her scores, and in her last five world title fights, there has been in every single one of the scores. There's been a 100, so she's won all 10 rounds. There's been a 99. She's won nine rounds, and there's been a 98.

She's won eight of the rounds. Most of the, been at least three, what I would classify is free shutouts. So they're going to be 20-minute shutouts, then they're going to switch to basically, what, a 36-minute shutout? But then also... If we went to 12-3s,

and the post to 10-3... The fatigue becomes an issue, and then you'll get stopages in the later rounds. Also, possible injuries. But I mean, so it makes... And there are some studies, sorry, prepping talked about. Our studies that haven't been completely completed

about head injuries with female boxes or female combat sports people. I hate to use that word, but it does kind of capture it. Anybody that's in a business where you get kicked in the head, elbow in the head, but it's in the head, but it would say, Steve, ultimately,

if everyone's saying do two minutes and they're all, most of the women, by the way, I don't think Katie Taylor can do three minutes now. She's a machine for two minutes. I think she'd struggle. And the man's around, a man surrounding knew that.

That's what she was called for three. And Amanda saw on her lights to free. She's done one. She's heavy-handed. She gave up her own WBC time because of it. Agree. Anyone who's heavy-handed wants it to go longer can they go more time to set you up for attacks.

Amanda, I would have loved three. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of people like me, fast hands and fast feet. You want one and a half, don't you? Well, yeah, I was great. I was great as a school, one minute, one minute, rest, one minute. That's just, my first fight was. Three one and a halfs.

One and a half minutes. Four and a half minutes of boxing, three minutes of resting. Let them try it. I mean, unless it's a mental reason why they can't, then let it go. I mean, and it's their choice, I would say that much. So, so providing there is an absolute concrete medical evidence suggesting they shouldn't, which I know there doesn't exist at the moment,

it's just some preliminary findings, which have been fairly alarming. And Mike Costello talked about them on this pod about four, maybe even five years ago. The big difference, the big thing with me will be the extra money. If you're only doing 10 rounds, 10 threes, that's 10 minutes extra.

If you're doing 12 freeze, that's 16 minutes above what you've been doing. Now, no woman, no woman, no woman, no fighter is going to expect the same amount of money for doing that much more work. So that's something that needs to work out. This is down the road, and it's tricky. No, I couldn't punch the city in my life,

and I'm doing trial wrongs every time, and then, absolutely afraid this would beat me up, is knocking people out in two minutes. Why is he getting more than me? Can't do more work than him? It doesn't work that way, Steve. That laggman's flawed, I think. I mean, it's all about your marketability,

your sellability, but I do think three-minute wrongs, there's more stoppages, and if more stoppages, be more excitement, more excitement, then you're more marketable, then you're worth more money.

And someone like Chantelle Cameron does fall in, heavily into that category. She's an aggressive fighter and the threes might really suit her. This debate has got legs, it's going to continue. It's not our debate, though. It's their debate. And I think a voice for them should be

not me. And I think they need to sit in a room all of the women fighters because my understanding is there was a, when the sort of proclamation, the declaration came out a couple of years ago, there was 20 odd fighters on it. My understanding is several of those fighters didn't really want to be on it. They felt a bit of peer pressure. So this needs to be done

in private, it needs to be done, you know, secret ballot almost. That might be the way to do it. Secret ballot to work out if they really, if the women really want to do threes, or if they're just, if they're just following a party. Okay, yeah, fair enough. I've got convinced you, see, I've got not secret. No, no, so you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Listen, if in, in this country, whatever there is, there's, I don't know, 250, 200 women, whatever there is. It's that 25, 16, 17 at each weight. So if there's, if there's 200 of them, let them do a secret ballot. And if it turns out, if it turns out that, let's say it's 200, if it turns out 185 of them, say, yeah, I'd love to do threes, then you can push it further forward. You know, because I've had conversations with boxers. I won't mention their names who do not want to touch threes, but who are, in theory, publicly endorsing doing threes.

What you don't want, though, is one organisation saying yes and the other not. Oh, that's guaranteed. What are you talking about 12? Remember 12 and 15 rounds for a year it was confusing. everybody. Yeah, but then it becomes really a problem then because then you go, well, I'm WBCC,

you can't have a unification match because one does three minutes, one does it's two minutes. It's got to be a unified decision by everybody involved in the women's game. I mean, the boxes, we're all ruled under the same people. Let's find out what the women

professional boxers want to do first before we worry about the second problem, which is getting the four main sanctioning bodies to get their heads together. It takes a brave person, might, to give your title back. Oh, no, no. That should earn it.

Also, that's a tool to make money. And the fight with Sandy Ryan, I mean, it wasn't going to sell out Wembley, but that was a great fight. If I was Sandy Ryan, no, I'd be going, she'd do anything to avoid me. I don't know. They've been going at each other forever in a day these two. So that's not a video. So Sandy Ryan will probably fight for a vacant title.

Chantelle Cameron's giving up. She's taking a stance. And listen, we like boxes that take a stance. Okay, Barry, who am I talking about? His last world title win was in December of 2020. The last time he beat a legitimate boxer was in December 2023, and yet he still remains one of boxing's major attractions. Who am I talking about?

20. No, you soppy sausage. Have another go. He's a big geyser from Watford. Oh, Joshua. Yeah, Joshua. Still going, is he? Yeah.

Still go. So anyway, there's all sorts of rumours. Barry, sorry, Eddie Hearn was in Orlando at the weekend. He let slip. or maybe let it go intentionally, that he feels Joshua might fight by the end of the year. We did this story a few weeks ago, and it looked like Joshua might fight on that Garner card on December the 20.

A few other cards are being suggested. I can't really get on top of it. I think there's lots of attachments to him possibly fighting this year. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but he certainly seems to want to fight early next year. But I was a bit shocked by that result that his last world title women against Kubret Poolev in December of 2020, five years ago.

And let's get it right. He's still the most massive, he's still the most massively popular fighter. He's a toss-up between him and Tyson who's the most recognizable athlete in this country, athlete in this country. He's been an advertiser's dream, hasn't he? Yes.

I mean, his markability, he's been through the roof since the Olympics. He says the right things, he looks the path, he's produced the goods in the ring, and even in defeat, you know, he's come back and won the world title again, and, you know, and he's had a few points. problems but even then he's turned down around and and people just want to see him

he is and let me ask you this barry if he was to have a third fight with usick i mean i'm just throwing out the ifs the massive if he was to have a third fight of usick next year if he was to have a rematch with daniel dubois which we understand he desperately wants if he were to have a first fight with tyson fury let's say those one of those fights or any of those fights were arranged for the summer june or july he hasn't boxed in september of twenty-year he hasn't boxed in september of Would a run-out in December or January be beneficial or would it be necessary? Yeah, I think both, Steve. I do.

I think he needs it. I do. I mean, just the training, you know, everyone can train. I know he doesn't have to make weight, but they have a nice weight. But he has a nice weight, but he wants to get right. And just the whole nerve thing going through the whole system. You know you've done it so many times before. Yeah, it's irrelevant.

Yeah, you still got to get that mode. And he might do and you get a round. That's the thing with the big guys. He might not get the rounds under his belt. Just doing it again. And doing it and winning, by the way. That's important. And so I think for a big fight, he could do with a runout.

But I can't see where they put him. And I can't see him going on the chief support for anybody. Well, Eddie Heard talked to me. He must love the boxing if that's the case. Eddie He talked to me about this at your call recently. And he said, look, you know, Steve, he just wants to fight. But I told him, you can't just fight. You can't just appear.

Well, listen, Barry. Um, hold on, bow, bow, bow, come, bow, come back. What do you, bow, you've got to talk about it. What do you mean? You don't want to talk about it. No, no, no, no. You can't go. You're contracted to talk about it.

Right. Over the weekend, it has emerged that there's a chance that the Jake Paul and Javon to Tank Davis fight might be, uh, cooled off. There's, there'll be a decision made. Maybe by the time you're listening to this, the decision may have been made. It may be pushed back to December. Maybe push back to January. Netflix have a, allegedly, they're the, basically, that's the TV company that's going to be shown on.

They've reached out to replace Tank to Ryan Garcia, Terence Crawford, Floyd Mayweather, Edgar Belanger, and of course, Anthony Joshua, here's a little stat for you. Anthony Joshua, 6'6, 252 pounds. Tank is 5'5, 133 pounds. So I'd imagine there'd be quite a bit of adjustment in the Jake Paul business if he were to switch from fighting tank to fighting Joshua. That, of course, is not going to happen. They were meant to be fighting at a catch-up. weight of 195 pounds, so only 60 odd pounds above tanks, normal weight, and they were wearing

12-ounce gloves. Now, I know you're going to say, Amy Buncey, it's not boxing. Well, it's hybrid boxing, and Jake Paul is, whether you like it or not, he is a, he is a, he is a, he is a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's, he's, he's, he's continuing to learn his business as a boxer, a youngish boxer, getting on a business, so therefore it qualifies as a fight. I've no idea really why we're including this here, other than the fact that Jake Paul is a legitimate professional boxer, even if he has this ridiculous background. I'm not even sure what to ask you,

except they have mentioned Francis Inganu, and I would warn Jake Paul about fighting Francis in Garnau. I think, you know... You've only got a minute on this about, so then you can go, trust me. I think that... Did you say good? Did you say good? I think, you know, I don't think the fights are fixed,

but I do think there's a... I do think that there's an understanding here. Absolutely. In the Tyson fight, 60 million people watched it, but they saw... Let's play the game, yeah. We'll have a pop, but if something happens, it happens,

but let's not go flat out. Like I thought Tyson and Roy Jones is the same thing, and all the other fights like that. Absolutely. I mean, but I think Tennis Krovers is a no-go, because he'll just chin you.

Yeah, there's not a chance of that. I don't think that's the fight they'll take. I think Ryan Garcia, they look because he's a lot smaller. They might fancy that, but then he might chin you as well. The Belanga one's a sexy one. His Belanga's back in the gym. He smells a good fight. He's noisy.

They can offer Belangas so much money that he will play the game. And I don't mean it'll be fixed, but it'll be like this and don't go full out. I must see where we go and it's what it is. And, no, but I say this. I don't know. He might be better than what you think he is. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to judge him.

I think he's a really good novice. I think he's a really good. I'll tell you what he is. I say what he is. Hard novice. Well, he isn't that good yet. He said, he's a novice.

Why should he be? If he can call a novice good, he's good. If you can call a novice good. No, well, I don't think he's a good novice either. Because he hasn't boxed. He hasn't, well, I'm just saying. But, you know, he trains out, he looks the path, blah, blah, blah. When I saw him in New York with Katie Taylor,

Mancranor won, he's a superstar. I know people have that all around him. I don't, I don't, I don't watch YouTube. and I don't follow anything with he does it's my generation I am going to interest in him and when I see a picture of him he doesn't look like a respectful guy

of a fool like I know with a beard thing and I'm going to go with him it sounds like I am and he's bigger than me but I mean when you're so no you're bigger than tank

you're taller in a tank and heavier than tank and um you were Netflix called you oh me too and I would play the game by the way but if only if I If only like it was a name.

But he has that superstar aura around like famous people have. He has it around him. And what he's done for those women, certainly Amanda Serrano. Jake Paul's role MVP. He didn't have to do that, Steve. And he might be making money. And his investments. And his investments in sport.

Listen. So I don't knock it for that. I don't knock him. And because our sport is so muddle nowadays anyway. Absolutely. Like, how can we, how can we criticize anyone anymore? You can't, can you? It is what it is.

It doesn't affect my life. It doesn't affect the world rankings. It doesn't affect anything like that. Let them carry up. Like Chisora versus White. If that fight were to happen. And people go, they're past a cell by day.

Well, they might be. But they both at the same level. Stage. It'd be a fun fight. It doesn't affect, no, it doesn't affect anyone. No one has to wait to fight for the World's title because of that. Let them carry on.

On the subject of Chisora and White, the third fight, there's a decision going to be made on that this week. Just to say that Javanta Davis, has had another civil lawsuit filed against him. That was filed last week. It's to do with, actually, I think it's to do with,

well, I don't think. I know it's to do with, he stands accused, I believe, of kidnapping his ex-girlfriend. That will all come to light. That's one of the reasons why MVP and Jake Paul and the Kesea Bidarian are not,

they're not making a decision on whether not Jake Paul and Tank will happen in December. However, no, in November, excuse me. However, but it looks increasingly unlikely. Barry, just quickly, before we go, we're the start of the month,

we don't often do this. What fight in November and it's a massive month are you most looking forward to? There's so many. There is so many. Yeah, Benavides, what a fight that is. Hainey Norma's going to be a better fight with people think.

Sam Nogs versus Abdulmanston is going to be a cracking fight. I'm going to see Sam notes this week. People think that that Mason's going to walk over. The Mason is a massive favourite. But I tell you what, you'll go for some roads. hockey moments here.

But for me, and it's not the highest level of fights, Ben and you're going to steal the show. I mean, if there's anything as good as the first one, the first one is a great fight. It really was. It was. It was sensational.

We'll be talking to the fighters, and that all starts next week, a whole week of it. Barry and I'll sit down and watch back the first fight through a watch along. And I can't wait either, because I haven't watched it since then. But I tell what I'm going for,

on the same bill, if I'm not mistaken, and it's the kind of fight I like, and it's a weird one, it's another one. Echo Esseman against Jack Cattle. I don't know why. I don't think it's a good for I to watch. No, it's a stinker.

It's a stinker who. But you know what? It's a really interesting. I like Jack and I like Echo and Echo. There's been so many attempts to get Echo blasted, ignored, beat and smashed up. And he just keeps on it. He's like the Terminator. He's about 64 years of age.

He just keeps on going. Even though he's the same age or Agby older than some of the fighters he beat. But in his career, yeah, than me. You tell him. But in his career, he seems like the new guy. Yeah. And it's like the passing of the bat. And we're obviously with Josh Taylor and now possibly Jack Cattrell,

two guys who were at the top of the division for such a long time. So that's what I've gone for that one. Barry's done the absolutely sensible thing. So we looked at Boatzy and we looked at our heartbroken Zach Parker. We heard of him in. We looked at the Orlando show. We both like Pat Brown. And well done Jordan Thompson.

Chantelle Cameron, that's the stance. AJ, well, who knows who, you know, we'll find out. soon enough. Jake and Tank, what that was a bit funny and we picked our fights. That's what you call a start of the month pod.

Next week, it gets serious. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. Five Live Sports. The Rugby Union, Autumn International. Unbelievable. Rugby Union's elite clash in a bid to close out the year in style.

Oh, what a try! Keep up to date with all the insight and analysis with the Rugby Union weekly podcast. The Rugby Union, Autumn Internationals. Listen with the BBC Sounds out.