5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Pat Brown on Hedges, Hype and History

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Is the hype around Pat Brown real? If he beats John Hedges in September, he’ll become the quickest man ever to win the British cruiserweight title in terms of professional fights. Pat sits down with Buncey to discuss his mindset ahead of the fight, where his confidence comes from and how the “club” atmosphere in the gym pushes everyone to improve. His trainer Jamie Moore also joins Buncey to give his unique insight into the 26-year-old.

This is Five Live Boxing. There was a man once called Dennis Andrews and in his 64th fight he won the British Cruiserweight title. Well guess what? There's a kid called Pat Brown, who in his seventh fight is trying to win the same title on September the 19th at the Co-op Live. He's fighting John Hedges, he's unbeaten. It's a terrific fight. And Pat Brown, well, he trains up in Walton, in Greater Manchester with Jamie Moore. And if ever there's a day out that I like during a heatway,

It's a trip to Moore, Brown and Walkton. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So when you speak to any of Jamie Moore's fires, it's always wise to make your way to Walkton. And I know Walkden because that's where my wife and all her family are from. So I do know Walkton. So make my way here again. Last time I was here, I had Dave Allen.

I've come in today and it's obviously it's Pat Brown. Now I made the mistake, Pat, of coming in when you're sparring. Now, I never ever watched sparring because if something happens, if you got here and you look rubbish and there was silence in the gym and it leaked out, I'm the culprit, you see my point. That's why when you saw me,

I was facing the wall like a naughty schoolboy. I never ever watched sparring in case something goes wrong. Yeah, it's the best way to be, isn't it? Because you know the world of boxing, everyone talks, you don't know what's getting leaked through. It's an horrible business. Yeah, everyone loves you as it is and you don't want people thinking all that bunty over there.

And that's my thing. My thing is that people, I want people to like me. So I stood there behind the wall hiding. And Kelvin Travis came over. He said, you're right, Steve. I said, yeah, I'm just hiding. I can't watch the sparring. I couldn't even look to the left because I could see a bit in the mirror. But it sounded like it went okay, obviously. I want to talk a little bit about the British title fight with John Hedges. It's your seventh fight, which is very, very early in a career trajectory to be fighting for a title. But John Hedges, even though he's had a couple more fights.

who's a couple of years younger. He's about the same experience-wise. I think that's fair common, isn't it? But are you feeling a bit of pressure, Pat? Because when you announced turning pro, we put on that big gala night over in Manchester and then you've had lots of big crowds, you've had lots of big wins,

and it's all been a bit of fun. Has it changed slightly? Because it's just serious. It's the co-op. It's a British title fight. And it's only, what, 17 months after your turn pro? Yeah, no, pressure comes with all the fights for me. I've always had that sort of mentality, especially when I was an amateur,

like me getting nervous and overthinking things a lot. I believe that's what turns me into the fighter I am, and that's why I'm so sharp and I'm on the ball, because they're so heightened and it's all I think about. And it's a good thing in my eyes, I think when you harness it properly, because it's just your body caring, and it shows it you love the sport and care about it so much. So this fight is the more pressure.

I wouldn't say there's more pressure on me, because I put so much on myself regardless. there's always a pressure to perform to a certain capability and hold like standards for yourself. That's the only pressure I put on myself. But like you said, you know, I got through in the deep end. They did that thing in Manchester on like a day's notice. I had to get loads of people there.

Yeah, there's quite a few. And then obviously we had that nice rooftop thing with the meal and me faces on the table. I'm thinking, what is going on here? I'm just a normal lad. And then I've obviously headlined first show. And since then, I've headlined again, my last fight, and I'm headlining again now. And like you said, it's only my seventh fight.

I've headlined this will be my third show. And I've obviously boxed in stadiums, arenas, America. I've kind of tipped a lot of boxes in my first year, and I love that. So, yeah, the answer's no. There's no extra pressure simply because all my fights have been massive occasions. Massively pressurized. Does this one feel slightly different? Are you slightly more on edge?

as we go into this one. Because there is more at stake here. The others are just about winning. This is the British title, it's the co-op. So do you feel a bit more on edge, not pressure, edge? Yeah, I would say it's more excitement. I said it as soon as it got announced, because obviously I wanted to box John,

my last fight for the English, and then, like, politic reasons. It just didn't end up happening. So I've obviously boxed Duker. I ended up getting the two belts, getting better rank than John. So then they proposed... Yeah, and they proposed the fight

for me to take afterwards and that's where they got John in the ring and I didn't know he was coming in the ring and that's why I said no because in my eyes I've not been looking at John Hedges wanting to take his head off I was looking at him at the time for the English title

but now that's dust to me because I'm now ranked better than that so why would I go backwards but then as soon as they said that the British is vacant and then the Commonwealth's getting thrown in the mix like bingo let's go then let's get it on and I've not been this excited

since going to Italy for the Olympic qualifiers. So you can, and I sense that. I've been in the gym half a dozen times where I've seen you in this year and I've seen you at fights and I've seen, I think, five or four of your six. But this time you just seem, you know, excited on edge, whatever.

I mean, all of them are good things. You just seem, yeah, a bit like you're ready to go kind of thing. No, I can't wait. And we're five weeks out. I'm fit as a fiddle. I feel really good. And I've changed a few things this camp just due to experience as well.

Like, you know, I'm on, I'm on meal preps, even though I always eat healthy. It's the measuring now. So I'm up in loads of things now when I know it all works, all the media side of things. I know how Fight Week works. I know, you know, headlining, I know how that works and how different that is compared to being on an undercard

whereas John doesn't know that. So there's loads of little things where I'm thinking, I know what I'm dealing with. And that might give you a big edge in Fight Week, in Fight Week, when it comes down to, to the commitments, when it comes down to the pool, when it comes down to the press comments, when it comes down to the open workouts,

the way, in all things that John has an experience at that level, that you've either experienced because you've been in the fights, or you've been around fighters, they're in the fights. You know, you're at Big Dave Allen fights, for God's sake. You know, that, those stuff. That's all stuff you store up, isn't it? Yeah, it is definitely.

And, you know what? Before the term pro, I never went any pro fights whatsoever, because I'd rather watch them at home in my own comforts, but, watching Dave and watching Jack and watching a few of the other lads in these massive arenas I would only go and sit in the changing room

and then go out with the fighter so I'm experiencing what the fighter feels like I'm not sort of dipping in and seeing it getting crowded I kind of just get there getting the changing room and bang it's right in front of me so one I deliberately do that

so I feel what the fighter feels and two I do that anyway because I'm not bothered about sitting in the crowd and what I'm there for me my mate who's fighting and I'm there to support him and give him that extra comfort if it's needed.

So you might arrive with them, literally with them, three hours before and fight, leave the hotel, so you're watching them slowly get dressed the way they do it, the tape going on the wall. So you're sucking that in.

When you're there, do you find yourself sort of taking a deep breath a bit like they do, yeah, getting sucked in completely? I'm so nervous when my mates are fighting and especially when my brother's fighting and stuff, I'm more nervous

than when I fight. That's just the, where I am. I love my mates. I love my people and I'll support 110%. I'm not going days fight, obviously, in Dublin, because it's two weeks away from mine. Loads of germs and all that. It's not worth it. And he knows that.

But it kills me not even going to support him there, because that's just the type of guy I am. But yeah, that's what I love doing. And it is... But also in all fairness, if you don't my understanding, so you're like Dave's apprentice, aren't you really? You're like his little... You're like his big apprentice. You're getting as big as him now.

You know, he's kind of like, you know, he sort of sits you on You know, he sits you on his knee and teaches you the ropes. You know, that's the Dave Way. Yeah, I'm actually the bigger brother to him. You're the bigger brother. You're the bigger, smaller brother. Even though he's older than me and that. Yeah, he looks up to me and he's took a lot out of my book.

He looks out. I tell you what, he is a loose can of him. I've had to tell him so many times, like, do you know what? He's calmed down a lot, though. And I do genuinely believe I have an impact on that as well. Because, like, he has, I said, like, I just told him the truth on certain things. It's like his social media. He's naturally good at it.

I'm like, like, like, do this, do this, do that and just go for it, you know what I mean? Because, like, you know, your career's not here forever and I believe that he's made to like people love listening to when it comes to, you know, punditry and talking about fights and all that.

They love it and they love it and they love the way he fights, we'll lose. Exactly. There was a sort of Dave Allen stamp and mark. And you can't help but get sucked in by it, you know? It's true. 100%. When you look at the fight itself, do you think that all of that stuff you've done, being in dressing rooms, being around big fights,

and the Olympics to a degree, because the Olympics is a big old thing, let's get that right. It's a big old rigmarole. Do you think there'll be that peaceful moment before you come out at the co-op, depending on whatever the size of the crowd will be, it's going to be bigger than 2 or 3,000, we know that now.

Do you think you'll have that kind of bit, will you actually be able to enjoy it, Pat? Yeah, I think so. I tried enjoying it last time, and the thing is with me. Like, when I'm in that changing room, it's like all the weights come off my shoulders it's sort of like

all the overthinking at home all the training, all the waiting in the hotel fight week, like with nerves they all go away and it becomes excitement now and then as soon as get the clubs on what point does that happen? As soon as a walk in the venue

because when I'm in the hotel or week that's the worst part I hate it just sitting around like thinking about it and you're wanting to get there you're wanting to do all that stuff and then when I get to the venue it's like I'm here now.

I can face the devil, face all the demons that I've been thinking every night because I do, I dream of John, when I go sleep. I think about the fight every minute of every day because I love it and I need to win.

Are you hard to live with you fight week? So, two weeks before. I am, yeah, definitely. I'm not, like, I'm steady and I'm sound but I'm very sharp and I'm like, I'm just on it all the time. But yeah, when I get there, when I get my gloves on,

I start warming up, it doesn't matter using that ring, my mindset. completely bulletproof and I'll walk out to anything. And your head clears? Yeah, head clears and I'm ready to rock and roll. And you love that? Yeah, I love it. That's when I feel most alive in life.

And then that walk to the ring? Yeah, it's amazing. Can you imagine what it would be like coming out of the car? I know. With a good crowd? Yeah, there will be. Even if there's not 20,000 in it, it's going to be a good crowd. Yeah, there will be definitely.

It's obviously in Manchester and that. And it's a new arena, most people, most of the fans and that, and people who are coming, they wouldn't have even been in there. So it's good for them. And John Hedges got that 10 round against Ellis Zorro last year, which is a great 10 rounds to have when you're a novice. You've got eight rounds against Dukkah, which is, again, getting the rounds is important.

And you understand that. You're smart enough. He's a little bit younger than you. But in many, even though he's had a few more fights than you, in many ways, you're absolutely level, really experience-wise. I don't. I don't think he could comfortably say he's more experienced than you. Yeah, I think, you know, he's boxed Lewis Oldford.

I don't know how many rounds he went with him, but I obviously boxed Louis Oatford in my second fight, stopped him in the first round. You know, Nathan Quallas, who he boxed with the English title. I sparring him back in 2021 when I was 21. And, you know, yeah, I won't go into that. But it's like his fight is it he's been in with, like, fair play and stuff. But, you know, we turned over pro at 18.

He's had 12 fights. Whereas I'm sort of hitting the ground running from the back of the Olympics. Six fights since March last year. in the head, yeah. But yeah, it'd be a good fight. I can't wait. What about, I want to ask you a couple of general questions. The whole cruiserweight division is a bit messy.

It's a bit sort of confusing. You know, the Jayopataya, the Zuffa staff, and whether this guy's going to do this and this guy's going to do that. There's a lot of big fights out there, the top three or four. You know, they're bigish names, but it's a bit messy, isn't it? Yeah, it's a little bit messy. Obviously, you've got Benavides coming through, apparently, then you've got, you know, I don't really,

I was like this as an amateur. I never look. deep into my competition. I sort of just take a fighter at a time and I never like deep it or, you know, I never think, oh my God, I really, really want to be a WBC champion of world. They really want to be a world champion or that.

I'm not really, obviously, it's nice to say, oh, he's world championing, but honestly, Bunsey, I just want people to just point at him and go, I tell you what, that lad there, he could fight like, and that's all I care about. And he can, he's an old-school fighter. He makes people excited on the edge of the seats and that's all I want to do.

And then whatever comes with that with the belts, of course I want the British title. What an amazing achievement. But that's only to tell my family and tell my future kids and that. Them two belts I've got now. I've not even opened them since. I promise you, I haven't,

they don't mean anything to me. It's more than night and the occasion. The photo with me with them belts on. Get that frame, give it my family or whatever. That means more to me. But the real belts they don't make. That's the ones he can fight.

He's old school. Because Jamie, he was over and everything. He's got those belts. Yeah, he does 100%. They're proper boxing belts. Yeah, when they see Jamie, they go, he can fight like, that means more to me than anything. Because I'd rather be that person and never win a world title

than win a world title. And they go, he was boring. Who did he beat? Yeah, he wasn't value for money. He didn't get everyone excited. Like, I'd rather, yeah. This is a good gym for that, really. You think about it, because Chantel's got a bit of that sort of action.

Connor Walker's got a bit of that sort of action about them. And Dave Allen's definitely got a bit of a bit of that. about you're like a bunch of revolutionaries in a kind of way if you think about it i mean jamey moors like james's over there sneegery but he's absolutely right it's for boxing's biggest mavericks all in one gym yeah definitely chancel i tell you what she did you know what she said the other day the cheeky bugger she went she said to james she went i want to get in with pat soon and all that and i went i don't believe what i get in with her oh not a chance i'm not getting in the ring with you chancel i've seen what you do yeah no way she's an animal

Tehraspera sparring session, you'd have to lock the doors. Connor Walker and Chantel camera, that would be as good. Seriously. You know what he does? We always, once a week, we'll do out to where we punch each other's abs and that. I always partner up with him. And he gets his fight gloves on.

So I think, all right, that's fair. I'll put me big 80 announcers on. You have your fight gloves. And, you know, we're knocking bells out of each of his stomach and all that stuff and we love it. But the next day, he's always like. It's always in trouble. And all that.

You all right. He's like, I'm sweet, me. I'm sound. And all that. Yeah, we have cool competition in the gym. Do indeed. Yeah. So listen, just the Cruiserweight division's a bit ugly.

I've got to ask you, I've been asking fighters the last two or three weeks about this ongoing Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Saga. It's been, you know, they were world champions together back in 2015-16. Then they had another 18 months together in 2020-odd. The fight's been announced, cancelled, fallen through. We're not even sure where it's going to be. What's your sort of take on that? Because, I mean, all fairness,

they've dominated global boxing for about 10 years, the pair of them. Yeah, they have. I think it's still the biggest fight in British boxing, possibly ever, because people who say, it's been and gone, they'll still watch it. Absolutely.

So everyone's going to watch it. So there's that for starters. Whether it's at the right time or not, everyone will tune in it. It's still going to be humongous. Number two, AJ, what is done for British boxing, unbelievable, carried out on his back, will boxing,

the same thing as he passed it absolutely yeah his legs haven't got it anymore he's not the same a j it's a shame to see but that's just facts absolutely titan fury he's done a different approach obviously when he beat clitsko at the time that sort of 2015 that was yeah 2015 that put him on the map completely uh because before that people weren't a massive fan of fury if you remember we weren't convinced yeah and people didn't really like his attitude and stuff whereas they've really grown on him now and he's mad he's mad at he's mad at him and he's mad at least he's massive, as you know. Do I think Fury

has got more left than AJ? Yes. Why do I think that? Don't look at his last fight in Thailand. That was just a sparring session. But look at the Matt Moodov fight. Matt Moodov, whatever you say, he's still unhandful. He really is.

And, you know, it was in a massive arena. He's a genuine join. He's trying to knock his block off. And yeah, he wasn't as sharp as usual, Fury. But you've got to take your hat off to him for what he did to a man like that. He's a dangerous man. So that's the reason.

why I think Fiore will beat AJ. And he went 12 rounds intentionally that night. Exactly. I mean, that's not, and he needed 12 hours. After that gap, you want to see what you got left. That was priceless that. 100% definitely. But that is the reason why.

And to be honest, we are, I've always thought the styles, is AJ, Fiore's cryptonite and all that. But I've always backed Fiore because he's so awkward and he's massive. And I don't care what anyone says, when you're weighing that much. If you're getting clipped by a shot, you're going to feel it. Yeah, it doesn't matter. There's no such thing as a 19 stone fight

who doesn't hit hard. Absolutely. Well, actually, Dave Allen bought, anyway. Oh, see, there's no need for that. I'm only joking, Dave. I'm only joking. So in the next couple of weeks, as we get closer and closer to September the 19th,

are there things you'll look for in yourself to make sure it's all going the same way? So will you look, you know, you know how you feel two weeks out, a week out, that in case anything different comes, because I've seen this with fighters. You know, suddenly the fight week throws them because they've never been, even though you've been in a fight week before,

they've never felt this way. Maybe it's the nerves, the adrenaline, I don't know. Yeah, I had all that, the debut. All the debut, that's when it threw me off big time, like, squaring off with him. And then as an amateur, when you're squaring off with your opponent, you're ready to fight, aren't you, in the ring? So I'm zoning in, and then I'm then leaving,

and then he's walking past me when I'm having an interview and thinking, what's going on here? Like, naturally, I've been doing the, I was an amateur for many years. so many fights so my head couldn't comprehend what was going on. And yeah, that debut taught me so much. So since then, I've just rolled with the punches quite literally. And yeah, I kind of know what I'm expected.

I love the idea of that, that as an amateur, the first time you come in face-to-face, it's seven seconds before you start boxing. As a pro, it's the eighth time. The ninth of time. Constantly. And next minute, I look at him and think, like, you mean, me, you and all that. Have you ever disliked an opponent, amateur or pro? No.

Even though they might have tried to go under the skin as a pro. I never, to be honest to you, I've still not experienced someone who's really annoyed me or I've had a proper rivalry with to be fair. Because you'd sense it was fake? If John Hedges comes and starts getting really in your face,

it's not really John Hedges, isn't it? It's not really John and he's not that sort of guy yet. But I think people, I'm not going to mention names but there's definitely people in the division who I think my personality and theirs will ignite like a Fury Wilder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I can imagine one or two of them, yeah. Because there's a lot of good British fights out there for,

before we get to whatever level you're dreaming of. There are some really good, some really good fun British fights out there. Definitely. It's not been a bad year there, has it, so far? Not been a bad 18-month-for-you, I guess. Yeah, it's not been bad at all. And do you know what? After the Duke, if I had a bit of arrest and stuff,

obviously it was getting my knuckle back right and stuff like that because it went in the second round. And just, yeah, that, time period of having off. I'm not one of them fighters where I'm blueing up and stuff. I'm always staying active, but I just needed that sort of mental switch off a little bit and I've come back now

and I'm hungrier as ever. I think there's two schools of thought about that. There's the completely doing nothing and vanishing to Tenerife like Ricky used to do. Then there's the constantly ticking over like, say, a car frotched it where they're always near enough on fireway. One might be too extreme that way, the other might be too

extreme that way. Perhaps there's a middle ground. But I remember Rob McRacken. He told me, he was always telling me stories anyway on GB, but especially around the Olympic times, because we would be getting coaches from obviously, like, the sort of camp we were staying at the village. Different countries, coaches. Like, we'll be going in a coach and that to the venue.

So I would always, he'll always be telling a story because he's got so many stories, Rob. And he said Frotch was a bag of nerves all the time. Never won a sparring round? Never won around a sparring on his entire life. That's why I think he always stayed ready because he's always thinking oh there's someone bigger, faster than me

and then when you actually get there you think, hold on him and it's not as bad as I thought and I think that it's a good sort of mindset to have if you don't let it consume you though. Frotch managed to sort of put it over this side of he said so over here he could be this way but he over-analyze things even right up to the end even up to the rematch with Jones

it'd still be over-anourising things and getting onto another fight that he's mentioned and he sparred the Hort Jackson, and he said he ate the artist. He was pound for pound, next level, yeah. He said he ate like a mule dead hard, and I don't know if you've obviously watched him, he's an handful, big time.

Yeah, what a throwback fight that he was. One last question. Did you go out to the Commonwealth Games point a chance, so did you watch some of it on TV? Yeah, I watched a few of the lads, so that cycle, that crop, it's a rare one because they're all similar age. I know them all when they were on, the academy coming every fortnight.

Just the level below you, yeah. They were like, obviously, yeah, I was on just a different cycle to them, but Damar and Isaac, they were my sparring partners for the Olympics, so they really helped me out, the good lads, and it's great to see what they're doing now. Patrice, you know, he actually went to the qualifiers in Italy, and he got through in the deep end, and his potential and how much he's grown as a fighter

from what I've seen is brilliant, and they're all top lads, they're all sound. And am I correct in saying that it was the most medals they've won? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, it was. That doesn't surprise me. This crop are going to do good things, definitely. Because the mall we forget, you know, he's this big six-foot-six inch, whatever,

Southport heavyweight with a brain. I mean, he's a smart guy, isn't he? Yeah, he's got a good job. Big tomorrow. And, yeah, he's a bag of talent. And he's just so long. He's like an octopus. Yeah.

I have to bite him sometimes to keep him, yeah, get that jab out of my face. It's a pat, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for finding time in your schedule because I know this is private time. I really appreciate that. Yeah, no, thank you. This is Five Live Boxing. So Pat's got his kit and he's about to go through the door there. Now, I've sat down with Jamie.

Jamie, we've got to address one or two of the things that Pat said there. Some of the allegations he's made there about some of these ridiculous sparring sessions. that you keep having here, Chantel, Cameron and Connor and the rest of them, and the rest of them, and what's going on? Man, Chantel and Connor are... Can you imagine that as a spot? I've had a moving around,

but we have to put it under the bracket of tech sparring to make sure it's very controlled because we don't want... 22-ounce gloves? We don't want someone who's so adept in ambushing someone like Connor and someone who's as aggressive as Chantel just going head to head and going out of each other.

It's just not good. I thought, that I came up today and obviously I don't watch the sparring and Pat was doing a few rounds. He looks very sharp and very focused. Not on edge, but he's a bit edgier than normal. Is that fair coming? Not on edge, but edgier.

You know what I mean, my name. Yeah, and I think probably just the right balance of nerves, but not overly nervous, just in terms of like where you get to the point where you're sharp, focused. I think early on there was a lot of pressure on his shoulders in terms of topping the bill early, was it a good idea?

And now in the hindsight, I'm sort of thinking this is the reason why they've sort of put him through that early on is to make sure that when he gets to these stages, these bigger nights, he's more equipped to deal with it. And he's definitely coping with a lot better than I thought he would. I mean,

it's seventh fight. You're going to be fighting at the co-op. Okay, there might not be 20,000 in there, but there'll still be a decent crowd, be a decent atmosphere. Be a decent amount of pressure in the week. He's fighting another unbeaten fire. So that's all good stuff. And you and I talked to earlier on,

before Pat came into the job, before Pat had finished his sparring. And we talked about how important it was that he was at events, big events, with other fighters of yours as they were getting ready for big events. And Pat's talked brilliantly there about being in the dressing room all the time.

I'm not bothered about being in the arena. He wants to be in the dressing room for the two or three hours. That's priced at that. Of course it is, like being around fighters and engaging in the atmosphere, seeing the process of arriving, getting hand-wrapped, having the conversation with the referees.

So it's not all brand new, the first time you're going through it, the first time you're topping the bill, you're fighting for a title. So it's a gift for these fighters to be in a position where they're around other good fighters who are fighting at a really high level to be in the gym of them every day.

You know, they're blessed to pick up, the technicalities, the way they deal with training, you know, little stuff like, and it sounds like a little stuff, but it's not, if you have a bad spa, how you deal with that, your mindset, your reaction to it. You know, a lot of fighters will be like offing and puffing, set the stuff off, complaining. One of the best fighters I've ever seen is Connor Walker, not from a technical point of view. I don't mean that. What I mean is the way he deals with every situation is bulletproof. it's like he can have a bad spa and he gets out of the ring

and the first few times it happened when he first came here I was like okay and he's like yeah yeah sound it just happens done it bad spar don't worry about it yeah yeah sound and it's like he does not allow anything and I mean any type of negative thought in his mind and that's why he can perform and he can do what he does like he doesn't allow himself to be beaten that is a mentality

that's a state of state of mind it's nothing to do with boxing it's not a physicality thing it's a mental thing whereas we both know we won't mention them really good fires we have a bad spa they almost don't want to come

in the gym the next day they'll throw their gloves down they'll leave the gym and get outside the heads and they're great fighters course they are and that's what makes them great because they go away they beat themselves up

and they constantly think about what they did wrong and what they can make it right so that in itself is a good thing But for me, the fact that you won't allow any negative thoughts in your mind has got to be better than that. That's why I'm a big believer in a gym-stroke club mentality. You know, I love the idea that's a young Taylor Bevin's here.

He's unbeaten. I think he's in great form. And he's listening and learning. He's literally standing in silence when Connor Walker talks to you. And then you've got big Dave Allen there, if it is or isn't the daddy in the gym, because we all know Shantel runs the gym anyway. just your name's on the door, Shantelle runs it.

Everyone knows that, no disrespects to you, son. She's the governor. And then you've got Pat kind of, you know, coming up the outside and he's always around them. Then you've got the rest of the fighters in the gym and the ones that have come and gone. They all add something to it. We've been blessed. Ever since we started doing this full time, which

was 2017-ish, we've been blessed to have some of the best fighters in the world, come through the doors, train with us and they're all genuinely good people

like I've never known anything like some of the types of atmospheres in what the vast majority of people who turn up to this gym always say God the atmosphere is unbelievable in it not like in not like this

not like that everyone compliments us on that which is one of the one of my proudest things is that now I can't say I create that but we're very lucky that we're in a position where we get

good fire World-class fighters coming to us who were good people. Over the years, like Tommy Coil, Carl Frampton, Martin Murray, Rocky Fielding, Chantel, Jack, Dave, you know, I don't want to miss anyone out. Literally, you can just got a massive group of really top-class fighters who were just beautiful people. Makes your life easy, isn't it? And actually it makes it hard if they lose.

You don't mind me saying, that makes it hard to they lose. Because you're emotionally involved. You care about these fighters. No mercenary. Yeah. I talked to Pat a little bit about the John. Hedges thing in a sense that they're very similar even though John's had a few more fights a couple of years younger they're about neck and neck inexperience-wise let me ask you this

if it wasn't Hedges in the other corner if it was one of the more seasoned one of the former champions like and I'm not saying Pat can't fight anybody but would you have maybe thought I've got to be careful how I say this would you have maybe thought twice about it if it was a Chevron Clark or Vidile Riley or not not because I think they're necessarily better but they're seasoned they're hardened and they're more experienced I think for it If you're looking after Pat from a management point of view, you're going, is this the right fight the right time? Yes.

You know, and Hedges is 100%. Yeah. And so you just mentioned Shev there. I think Shev would have been the fight where you sort of going, do we wait one more fight? We need a bit, you know, we need 10 rounds, 12 rounds under his belt. Not saying that Pat couldn't or wouldn't go in there and do a number of him. It's not the point.

It's the fact that he needs them rounds under his belt. So there was a few little comments, criticisms last time, when he fought Dukar. I'm absolutely over the moon with that fight, with that choice of opponent. Eight rounds as well. Yeah. His hand went at the end of the first round.

So considering his composure, the way he went around the job, the problems Dukar gave him, those couple of right hands which he took, which I've seen some comments like people saying, he gets it too easy. Like, it's insane to think that someone's going to be in there with someone who's given world-class cruiserweight's problems and he hits Pat

Brown with two decent right hands. You're celebrating the two shots? And people are going, oh, he gets it too easy. But Pat does, he's guilty of switching off in times because he sort of gets to the point where he has him going and he punches so hard and he has that much confidence in himself that he just goes for it. But I've seen him spar world-class fighters. He is not that gung-ho when he's in them positions, when he knows he can't afford to take the chances against them When he needs to be smart, he's smart. And this could be the type of fight where, you know, Hedges is, we don't know how good he is, how good he could be.

Just because he's not fought at a certain level doesn't mean he can't. That's not disrespectful, that's a fact. Of course. And he's not lost a fight since he was 15 years old. You've got to respect that. We have to go in there, give him the utmost respect, and we take him as we see him. I don't really, I don't mean this in a bad way.

I don't care how good John Hedges is, could be. because I'm more than confident in Pat Brown's ability. No matter what's put in front of him, I believe he'll overcome it. He's such a better boxer than people will have given credit for us so far because he's never seen it. But that doesn't mean he can't do it. Absolutely.

It's a good, it feels like, and it felt like since that launch of his pro career in that old church or whatever it was in Manchester, which was a lot of fun, a few hundred people, lots of noise, it feels like a good journey. It feels like an exciting journey with Pat. Is that sort of fair comment? You get the sense that we're on this one.

It's a bit of fun this one. He has a connection with the people who come and watch him. He's fans. He calls him all friends. And it's true. He's a very outgoing, warm, you know, emotional person. All these people can feel that connection. And, you know, you're saying there about the co-op, you know, it won't be full.

We witnessed the journey of Ricky coming through. The first time he boxed at the MN, there was 5, 6,000 people there. And he just starts getting fuller and full on. down curtains, putting more seats. Everyone wants to get on board with the journey because it's such a emotional roller coaster on the way and they all want to be part of it. It's hard not to make Ricky Hatton comparisons with him

because Ricky had that same people's touch. It sounds like a cliche, but everybody you ever met a Ricky Hatton fight had met Ricky Hatton. Everybody you ever meet at a Pat Brown fight has met Pat Brown. It's a direct connection. They met him here. They met him there.

They were on holiday with him. They saw him there. He was in the Pizza Express. he was, it's quite, it's the same with Ricky. I mean, you know, you know, because you, you alongside Ricky. Absolutely.

Every man and his dog knew him. And get that sort of same impression with Pat. He's cut from the same cloth, and you can't quite put your finger on what it is, what that connection was with people had, or that, you know, people who was just drawn to him, attracted to him.

He just had that boy next door, cheeky, sort of, happy-go-lucky type of personality. Pat's not that type of person to a certain extent. extent, but he is your everyday, down to a normal person and you could walk past. Yeah, he's very, you know, he's a pleasant lad, he comes across well, he's polite, he's respectful, but when you put a pair of

boxing gloves on him, he turns into a psychopath and that's what we want. Which is also part of the Ricky adoration is they knew they weren't just backing a guy that was a really nice father. Once he got in a ring, it would strap yourself in because he's going to rip this guy apart. He absolutely tore your soul out of your body and that's it. People sometimes forget there with Ricky. Ricky loves smashing people. He missed it first and he battered me in the amateurs and it was probably the best experience I had because he taught me out to body punch.

He taught a lot of people out of body punch. The hard way though, if you don't mind me saying so. I did take it the hard way but in the long run it was the good thing for me. Do you know what, actually, I've seen his mate Steve Eat and he posted a picture of him yesterday and I just want to say like what? It's just still raw.

Still raw, not even a year. It's awful. I agree. I just still can't believe he's here and I'm missing. It's a really weird thing. I'm on your side. Every now and again a picture you'll come up on your timeline

and you just think, oh wow, it's been 10 months, it's been 8 months, it's been 11 months. It's just not right, don't feel right. It just doesn't seem right, isn't it? Anyway, I suppose that's a good way we're in. Listen, Jamie, it's been an absolute pleasure and a delight coming and talking to you.

And thanks for letting me into your gym. It's always a pleasure being up here. I miss Chantelle, which is, I don't mind, I saw her recently, down in London. Chantel's got a massive night for the Michaela Meyer fight on the MVP show.

And then Dave Allen's fighting Thomas Carty on the undercard in front of 80,000 people. Two massive nights coming up for you before we get to Pat. As I said before, Buncie, we were blessed to be busy. Blessed as well. A lot, a lot of good high-level fighters. All crammed together, close together. Chantelle first out, Michaela Mayotte. It's a fight.

You know, two of the top 10 pound-for-pound female fighters in the world going against each other. and Michaela's probably in the form of a career. Chancel is absolutely flying and it's going to be one of the fights in here without a doubt. And Big Thomas Carty against even bigger Dave Allen. That's a tricky fight for Carty because I think he'll be, I think he'll may be looking at Dave Allen and thinking I know how to beat him.

Everyone thinks they know how to beat Dave Allen. Close to it. And, you know, let's have it right. Ergovich was a step too far and there's no shame in that. But Thomas Carter is a good solid fighter, needs that test to see if he's going to be capable of stepping up. And Dave Allen's the perfect guy. What a bill to be at to be able to do it.

On the legend, Katie Taylor, we get to, we get to be in the presence for a fight week. And we've got Taylor Bevan on the undercard to that as well. And we've got Alper on the undercard. Taylor Bevan on the undercard there. And we've got Alfi Middlemiss on the same bill as Pat. So what, five fights in the next six weeks? And Katie 80,000 in Croke Park under the stars. What a night.

You can't invent that, can you? In what fantasy in the last 25 years have you pictured a Katie Taylor in front of 80,000 in Croke Park? It's just unbelievable. We've spoke about this a lot, obviously. Shantel's got that history with Katie. And it would have been amazing to get that trilogy on this thing. But I honestly believe Katie Taylor is an absolute boxing legend. Even now she's still fighting.

We've had that history. Chantelle B, as she beat Shantel in the rematch. There's a lot of respect there between each other. But the fact of the matter is this. Katie Taylor deserves a send-off. She deserves to go out on a high in front of her people.

A bit of shadow boxing. In front of her people and go, thank you, everyone. And everyone, go to Katie Taylor, thank you. Because she has given people unbelievable nights. And, you know, we're privileged to have been a small part of that journey. I feel exactly the same way. Privilege to be a bit of a small part of that journey.

You know what? There won't be a dry eye in the place, son. Trust me. Jamie, it's an absolute pleasure and a delight talking to you. Cheers, pal. Thank you. So Jamie Moore there talking to me, Pat Brown earlier. Pat Brown in particularly good form. It was great to see Dave Allen. It was great to not great to miss Chantelle Cameron.

That comes out wrong. I wish I'd have seen Chantel Cameron. Great to speak to Taylor Bevan. Jamie's going to limp away. He's been diagnosed by Dr. Stephen. going to tear the diagnosis. I don't want to upset the doctors that are out there. I've been Steve Bunce and this has been Five Live boxing. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the leagues. This is Five Live Sports.

It's all eight to the lights and Fetanaflo. To ball him. It's not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th three. Offerhead Ket. He shows to the centre. And go to do it. All the right head and the former champion is down.

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