5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Protests, Apologies and Pride - Rico Verhoeven

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Will Rico Verhoeven get the apology he’s after? The Dutchman and his team have lodged an official protest over the controversial ending to the fight in Egypt. Rico joins us to explain why they decided to take action, looks back on that unforgettable night, and reveals he’s hoping to be back in the ring again before the end of the year.

This is Five Live Boxing. So one minute I'm on a camel, the next thing I'm sitting by a pyramid, the next thing I'm ringside for one of the most extraordinary fights in heavyweight history. And now, well, I'm in a pub somewhere in London, talking to the one man that's got me out of my house. Rico Verhoeven. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So Rico, first of all, welcome to London. I understand it's been a busy...

Have you slept since the fight? Yeah, yeah, I tried. No, it's been a crazy few days, but super exciting and still very grateful. Rick, I've got to start with what happened after the fight. We'll go back to the fight in a week in a second. With Kareem, your manager, and you all agreeing to file a complaint. Who was that filed with? And why have you done that?

It's been filed with the Middle East Boxing Commission. and why it was filed is just to be honest to get an apology and of course we hope for the rematch but yeah I can sit here and be bitter and be angry but we're all human we all make mistakes and that's what I believe happened that there was a mistake was made and that's it by the referee Mark Leighton because the bell had sounded

and that's when the stoppage happened you feel that was Yeah, it's not as much about the moment that the bell goes and he jumps in because when he said I didn't hear the bell, I believe him. Because I always try to think of the best of people. The decency. Yeah, the decency. So I truly believe that he didn't hear that. But he did see the condition I was in. And I was protecting myself.

I was responsive. And he also knew what part of the round we were in. And we were in like the last few bits of the round. So, yeah, those are definitely some reasons why you should just let it carry on. Of course, I know his obligation of protecting the fighter. I know that. But he also saw that, like I said, I was. was still responsive. I threw a punch and after that punch I thought, hmm, that's not smart.

Let's keep my hands up. We're almost there a few seconds. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, bop, and then I go back to the corner. But I didn't get that opportunity. In that last round, could you sense yourself tiring? Because it was a draining fight for both fighters, but in the last, say, 30, 40 seconds before the knockdown, could you sense that the fight was in danger of going because you were so tired? Did you get that sense? Not that the fight was going But that I was getting tired Most definitely

Because I was the one Pushing the pace For the last 10 rounds That's why I also thought I was further ahead And the scorecards Yeah on the score cards Then I actually was

Because you'd seen the score cards After four rounds and after eight rounds And you were surprised That you were not clearly leading Yes sir Yeah And did what Did that make you want to increase your pace knowing that it was still tired?

Of course. Now looking back at it, I also understand better the viewer's point of view, because if you look at the commentator scorecard, he had me up eight rounds. So I had something like that as well. It was like seven to eight ahead. But then getting back the official scorecard. We knew we were tied up. So if I would be so far ahead and we didn't hear about the official scorecards in the 11 round,

I wouldn't have kept pushing like that. Because you were so comfortable. I was going on the back leg and just like, booboo tip it happened until I finished the fight. Because he needed you to take risks in that last round to catch you with the punch he caught you. Exactly. Because just attacking me randomly, he would have never caught me. was he this is a really strange thing to ask you was he

was he slightly easier to fight than you expected him to be because we've talked about him being a master a throwback genius he is and he I truly believe that he still he still is but the thing was like Peter told me he's not going to show you anything

you have not seen before and he was he was correct he didn't show me anything I didn't see him before. You showed him things he'd never seen before. Exactly. But that doesn't take anything away of his ability of being an amazing boxer.

It's just like it wasn't new, but he was smart and he was slippery and it was hard to catch him. So that's why I threw the accumulation of shots. Rico, could I take you back a few days before the fight on the back Tuesday, the Wednesday, when you were everywhere doing massive sessions, three hours on the Red Cup, doing interviews constantly.

It looked like you were absolutely loving every second of being involved in a fight of that size. 100%. 100%. And still, I still am. Still just super excited and how cool is it to be a part of history? Yeah, that's literally how I feel. Like, how blessed am I?

And when you were in and around Uthzik in those last couple of days, it were different face-offs after the way in and after the press conference. Did you get any sense of the man? Because I know you hadn't met him, you know, until you got there. Obviously, you met him in London, but you hadn't had a relationship with him. You didn't know him that well.

Did you get any sense of him as a man when you were standing next to him? You stood next to lots of opponents over the last few years. Yeah, no, just like that he's a true professional and a true athlete. So every time we saw each other, he shook my hand. So definitely respect him. And what about on the day of the fight itself, you know,

because it's all over now, all the buildups over, all of the exchanging of emails, all of the talking, all of the face or so over. You're in your dressing room. Did you feel any different than in a normal fight? No. And did you ask yourself if you felt different, Rick? Did you sort of look in the mirror to try and see if there was any change?

Yeah, of course. That's what I always do. No, it was all the same. I felt comfortable. And that's also what Peter said, that the best is going to come out. you, the more you relax. Just enjoy yourself. And that's what I did. I looked at the pyramids, I said I'm here. Just before you did the run, just before you did the run, because that's your,

that's your trademark, you're running. That's my thing. Did you, I was trying to watch you, it was chaos. It was hysteria. I was 10 feet back in the ring. It was mayhem. Did you take a point at that moment to just look behind you at those pyramids before you went on your run? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. So at first I did the punch on the ground. Yeah, that was lovely. And the lights came on. Yeah, the lights came on. So the ground cracked open. And, yeah, so that happened. Then I turned around, look at the pyramids. The lights went, I was like, wow, I'm here.

And then, yeah, my song came on. And then I just dialed in, right to the ring. And were you honestly as calm as you looked? You know, when the ring was emptying out, so in the end there's seven people, six people, down to just three people. You, the referee, and Ousick, and then Michael Buffer leaves the ring.

When you turned around there, pyramids over there, crowd, global audience, were you really as calm as you looked, Tricco? Yeah. Yeah, I felt like, wow. It's like I'm... The time I perform at my best is when I'm under pressure. I love it.

And you were under pressure? I was under huge pressure. Because maybe not from the world, Because the world didn't expect me to do anything. But for myself, for my team, because I knew how much work we put in. And I just wanted to showcase that. Were you scared of being exposed?

Were you scared of being hurt? Were you scared of being knocked out? Never. No, I have to ask the question. Of course, but that's not what as a fighter you think about. It's not that I was scared of something, but I was just hoping, like, this guy is so good.

Did all the work that I put in, was that enough? And the game plan that we had in mind, is it going to work? And oh hell did it do? It worked. Now, as the bell sounds, and you come out and you've got a good, you're not leaving him a lot of space, you're moving your head, you're throwing big jabs, two jabs. You go back to the corner, and each time Peter said something to you,

a slight suggestion, really simple. You would say to him, look at him in the eye, and you would say to him, yes, sir. Yeah. We love that. I mean, that degree of respect at that fight, that was really refreshing. Is that how your relationship is with Peter? Yeah, that's so for us, when we're here, it's, we're having fun, blah, blah, blah, we're laughing and doing everything.

But when we're in the gym, he sells me stuff, it's, yes, sir, give me this, give me that, yes, sir. So when you saw those scorecards, the WBC showing, they call it open scoring, When you saw those score cards after round four, were both you and Peter shocked? Or were, you know, could you allow yourself to just, okay, no problem? Yeah, exactly, of course, dude. Like, okay. I thought I won at least like three, but...

Okay. And then what... But then after seeing them after eight? Yeah. You're like, hmm, I think I was doing a lot better than what they're saying. But... Could you sense that you were... troubling, Usik.

I think you hurt him to the body. Of course, of course. I felt it. Yeah, you could sense, tell me what I was like. No, it was amazing. That's why I was like, I was feeling so good. I was touching him with the jab, was moving around him. I was like, am I out jabbing the champ now?

What's happening here? Who thought you'd be, no disrespect. Who thought you'd be uttering that sentence? I out jabbed the champ. Exactly. Because they said like, because we were talking, I did so many interviews. And they said like... You did so many interviews, I know.

I watched them all. And they said like, Rico, what would be the best win? I said the ultimate win would be after 12 rounds and a unanimous decision. That would be the ultimate win. Because then that would mean I've outboxed the best boxer in the world, exactly. And then I heard people coming back like, man. this guy should be happy if he even outboxed Usik for one round.

So, look at what we did. Wow. And it seemed that every time he tried to adjust, you then readjusted. Peter came up with something different. You said, yes, sir, and we got for another round. And he was getting, you know, I've been around Usik, a long time, amateur and pro.

I've never seen him that, look, that frustrated. Ever. Amazing, thank you. No, it's true. Yeah, it's a big compliment, because that's what we were working towards. and yeah, that's, I truly believe that that is what it's about. That is what boxing is on the highest level.

It's a game of chess. So I make a few moves. He makes a few moves. I need to adjust. He needs to adjust. And that's how you get a great match. But so often in the past, Usik, when he's fought Tyson Fury, when he's fought Daniel Dubois, when he's fought Anthony Joshua, he adjusts so much so that they can't then adjust

and stand with him and stay with him. And yet with you, he couldn't adjust and get in front. Try and tell me how that worked. Please, because I don't understand. I don't understand how you did it, Rico. I watched you do it, but I don't understand. I think that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

But I think the most basic thing to tell you is that we were not keeping our feet still. I think that was the key. Keep your feet still against the guy like Usik. He's going to pick you off all day. Go around you. Go around him, go lefts, go orthodox, go South Pole, and show them different angles.

I think that's what we did. It certainly is what he did. Let me, let's go to the last 20, 30 seconds of the fight. 17 seconds to go in the 11th round. You ducked into a good shot, a good upper cut, and you went down, you get your feet. Were you aware of what was? going on at that point.

As soon as you got up from the cameras, you were aware. Yeah. It's just another shot. Yeah. I made a mistake. Yeah. Okay, go down. I might go down a little goofy, whatever, because I was on the front leg.

Get the uppercut. Go through the ropes. Right away, I get back up. Because of the uppercut, my mouthpiece came loose. I come down. If you say, oh, that's such like a professional move. It was not. He didn't spit it out.

It didn't spit it out. I would never. I would never. Why not? Because I know it could be a thing you could use, but for me, that's just not who I am. So leave it at that. And people can't believe me or not, but that is the truth. Because why I can refer to that as well is that I stood up.

Right away, I looked at the referee and I told him my mouthpiece is out. Right away, so I wasn't like dazzled or whatever. I told him my mouthpiece is out. Okay, he grabs the mouthpiece. I tell him to put it back in my mouth. Not to clean it, just to put it straight back in. Exactly, because I want to fight. You want to fight.

He went to the corner, he left my train to clean it and put it back in. So all the extra time I got from that was because of the referee. Not because of you. Not because of me. You didn't spit it out and you didn't want it clean. Exactly. With that being said, it said like, oh, looked how Rico was walking towards this corner. Guys, it was the 11th round.

I was pushing this fight for 11 rounds. For 10 rounds, 2 minutes and 40 seconds. I was pushing this fight by myself. So is it okay for me to, after 11 rounds, being 170 kilos, be a little bit fatigued? so there's that now Rico once it was obvious once it was clear that you'd been stopped

you didn't scream or complain or start crazy your corner or upset but they weren't they weren't they just you were still you were still sportsman like you just took it you just accepted it respectfully accept you know which you think it was wrong but you

still accepted it yeah like for me like even though I'm coming in into to win I'm here as a guest. And that's how I feel. And I feel to act as a professional, not only towards myself and my team,

also towards the opponent, towards the organization, to the people that made it possible for me to be there. Including Ussack. Including Ussic, including His Excellency, Turkey Alashik, Jason. So, yeah, I think that's just part of the job. job. And when after the fight did you watch it back and think, I need an apology here? I shouldn't

have been stopped here. When, how soon after the fight? Because you feel it in your heart, but when you actually watch it. Yeah, pretty quick because everybody went crazy. Yes. Everybody went crazy. And then I didn't see the whole fight right away, but I did see the end, of course, the stoppage and everything. It was like, hmm, this didn't feel good. This doesn't feel well. So I was like I want to appeal this and then especially after I started the whole fight I was like come on guys this you're well in front aren't you yeah in my opinion you're well in yeah yeah um Rigo a couple of messages what would you say to Ousek now because obviously rematch is an option he's also got the situation where it where where he's got other other

commitments Sajik Kabil like that's boxing that's boxing like I don't know I I just came into boxing. So for me, all the politics and all the obligations that come with it, like, I don't know. For me, it's just I respect the hell out of Hussein. He's an amazing fighter. He's an amazing dance partner. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity

to step in the ring with him. And I hope I get another opportunity to do it again. And what about the fans? Because you went in the ring with lots of fans in the Netherlands, lots of fans in the kickboxing world. You left the ring with the entire boxing world behind you. What message would you send

to just the fans? Thank you so much, guys. Thank you so much for all your support, for all your messages. I tried to read as many as I could because there were a lot. Like the world was upside down, the world was on fire

and thank you so much for the backup of the injustice that that had been done. But like I said, it's a part of life, guys. It's a part of life. And we got to accept that and continue from there. And also, what I like to say is I hope a lot of you,

because a lot of you came in with like a certain opinion. You came in with an opinion of what is this kickboxer going to do in our world? what is he doing here and partly that was true because you only saw one side of the story but you made your opinion

on that one specific side of the story and that opinion was correct but you didn't see my side you didn't see me trained for this fight you didn't see my transition

towards this fight so don't judge a book too fast by its cover but thanks again because now we're here and we're one big happy family. And final message to Mark Leicent is a referee I've known for 25 years. I think he's a very decent man.

Yeah. Would you have a message for Mark Leicen? No, for just like I appreciate Mark. I respect Mark. So the only thing I would say is like, hey, I hope you can look back at it and say like, hey, I could have done better. I could have done better in that moment. And that's all it is.

Human is human. It's human. We make mistakes. But there also should be room to say, like, yep, that was a mistake. I could have done that better or I couldn't have done that differently. I could have handled that differently. And that's it. If you don't get the rematch, will we see you back in the boxing again?

Are you back to boxing now? 12 years off? 100%. I'm here. I'm here. Where have you been? You're 12 years away? It's not funny.

No, it wasn't funny. But I was the kickboxing world champion. You're so good at that, yeah. No, so I wasn't sitting still. I was definitely doing something, but not boxing. So, no, I'm here. I'm here to stay. But let's see.

Let's see what's in store for Rico Verruva. Yes. In an ideal world just finally, would it be this year? at your box again? Oh, I would definitely want to fight again this year, but like when and where and how and who? Let's see. If it's not the Netherlands, make it England.

You've got some fans here, well. Oh, 100%. I already see it. I already see it now walking down the street. People like, oh, yo, do you bring on it? I'm seeing it in this pub, don't worry. Yeah, yeah. So it's amazing.

I've seen the reaction here in London, but I'd love to have been on your plane flying back to the Netherlands. What was it like, Landon? Because I spoke to Matty Harris, who was with you in the Netherlands. in the Levalands. And he said, Bansy, he can't go out. He can't walk down the street. He can't buy a loaf of bread. He can't buy a coffee. He was like stunned by how popular you are. What's it been like? No, it's been amazing. And everybody just fuels the, uh, also the injustice that they see because, yeah, they love you so much. They support you so much.

And like, oh, Rico, you're so close. I said, I know. I said, but guys, let's not, let's not waste our energy on negative thoughts. and let's look positive at the future and look at all we've accomplished. We've been a part of history. I was facing the very best. Nobody expected anything. And look what we showed them.

So super thankful. Well, we knew he was a good guy. We knew he was a national hero in the Netherlands and we knew that he could fight. We found that out specifically on Saturday night. But what we don't really know is just how good a guy is. Rick Hover, he might be one of the nicest guys I've met and covered in this box.

It was a delight and a privilege to sit with him. I'm Steve Bunce and this has been Five Live boxing. Five Live Sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Shave Ralphiebush. Lives on BBC sounds. Smash straight back down the ground.

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