5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Rain, Sunshine and Hometown Heroes

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Barry Jones joins Buncey to unpack a dramatic weekend of action, as Fabio Wardley delivered a one-punch knockout to stop Justis Huni in a controversial 10th-round finish in Ipswich, while in Barnsley, Callum Simpson stopped Ivan Zucco in the 10th after being dropped twice. We hear from Wardley and Huni’s promoter Eddie Hearn. And Buncey chats to Ben Shalom about Simpson’s win and what the future holds for Boxxer as their broadcast deal with Sky has expired. Plus, we pay tribute to legendary trainer James Cook, who passed away at the weekend.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. Two giants, one night of football stadium. An unforgettable experience. Anyway, enough about Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen. They were at Anfield. Nah, this is a boxing show. Two unbeaten fighters.

Two football stadiums. Two unforgettable fights. Fabio Wardley, Callum Simpson. What a show this is going to be. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. So that was Saturday night. Two big wins for two big British fighters in two big nights. Sorry about the Springsteen and McCartney joke. I just couldn't resist it. Now, I was actually in Barnsley. Friday night, Newcastle, Saturday night, Barnsley.

Oakwell, absolutely fantastic. The sun was out, the sunglasses were on, and it was a sunset to absolutely kill for. It was Mediterranean in Yorkshire, it really was. Barry Jones, meanwhile, who seems happy enough now, he's had a bowl of pasta in D. Martinos. He wasn't quite as happy or quite as warm. He was in Ipswich in the pouring rain, Barry, in the pouring rain of Ipswich. I struggled that. It was really bad. The rain was so bad.

The walk into the arena. I fell in a puddle of the other chuck of rubber ring to save my life. It was that bad. You backstroked out of it. It backstroked out of it. It was ridiculous. The rain was really bad, but it didn't deter the crowd, Steve. Yeah.

They were there. It was busy. It was almost full. It was fantastic. I mean, it is quite stunning. to think we've got two nights like that, two fights like that on one night in two different football grounds.

I find it absolutely amazing. We will talk about what happened in the fights, but where do you want to start? Do you want to start in the rain or do you want to come with me to the golden sunset in Oakville? Because the fights are similar. They both end in the 10th round, and they're both full of unbelievable amounts of drama,

not just in the ending, but my one particular, in the first, in the rounds themselves. Where do you want to start, Barry? Let's start with the heavyweights because that's where everyone wants to hear. That's the truth of it. Go on. Start with the big lads.

It was... First of all, first of all, let's just explain what happened, okay? Justice Hooney was unbeaten. Fabio Wardley was unbeaten. He had the one drawler last year at the O2, that brilliant fight with Fraser Clark. It was meant to be for the WBA interim title, but I was really planning or not mentioning that,

but I have done anyway. Hooney was a late replacement for Jeremy. or Big Baby Miller. That's an argument that I think we've got a better fight if you don't mind me saying so. The fight itself wasn't a slug fest,

was it? It was, well, that's mine to say it. It ended in the 10th round. Tell us how it ended and then take us back into the fight. Well, it ended with just as honey backing up Fabio Wardley

as he had for most of the fight, let's be honest. And actually probably making, if not only, one of the few mistakes he made all night. And all that was, was by throwing a right hand because he was winning the fight by a street, let's be honest. And if anything, playing with Fabio Wadi at that point,

and he threw the right hand, brought that right foot forward, and as he does that, Fabio would say that he saw it and let his hands go, but Fabio doesn't fight that way. He's instinctive. And people say this thing about he took his head off the line and threw the right down the middle. He throws you so much conviction that his head just moves to the side anyway, naturally.

Momentum. He just threw a right hand. at the same time as Justice Honey through his, and he landed first. Did it have to be punch perfect, centimeter perfect, to drop and stop, honey? No, I don't think so.

I'm still not sure that Justice Honey has the best of chins. That's why I thought I was really confident that Fabby was going to get the win. Not this way, but earlier and an easier route. But he just let it go. And the fact that he squared up means that your resistance for taking the punches

a little bit less, so he hit the floor heavy. and then the referee counted him out that's all that's what happens. John Leifan counted him out he got up just on about 10 there has been an official the HUNNicamp has lodged an official complaint

I can explain that because if you look back on the TV and you see the ref you see the referee so he goes down the referee tells Fabio to go to the corner and then he picks up the count now that word picks up is very important because tell us why he doesn't start the count he picks up the count

so the count is started when the when the whenever hits up the count is the floor, whichever box hits the floor, then the timekeeper picks up the count. Yeah. Whilst the referee is doing his obligations and making sure that everything's safe, the box is in the neutral corners without this, no other punches the thrown, and then he can assess whether he counts or calls the fight on. So the referee kneels down or squats down and he catches the eye of the timekeeper.

So he starts coming to the four. But I think the referee, so I think his fingers are saying something that his mouth saying something, his fingers are not doing. So I think he's on like five. and his fingers are saying three. That's what he looks a little bit funny, I think, for me. And then he gets up, and then there's another thing. It's not a 10 second count. And actually, if you time it, it's 11 seconds.

But that's irrelevant. It could be 20, I think it'd be 15 seconds, and I don't think people can complain about that. It's a 10 count. And it's not 9-10 and out, it's 9 and out. And these things are very important because he gets up around the round about 9, but he's not up.

And also, that's another thing. getting up, rising and being on your feet are two different things. Because if rising was you being on your feet and being fit off the box, then theoretically the fight that could hit you when you were standing up and not stood up. This makes sense. That makes sense to me. Perfect sense to me. Yeah.

So when you take all that into account, the uproar of the stoppage is diluted dramatically. Though there's another argument. Go on. Everyone's fired up in here today. Everyone's so charged today. In other fights, that would have been allowed to continue. And if that was Fabio Wardy in any fight, but this fight as well, even the fight that he was losing, would the referee allow him chance to go on? You can argue that all day long.

But I don't think the referee did anything wrong. No. He's seen a fight who maybe couldn't defend himself and called it off. I think it's standard practice for a team to call in a question account when it's when there's a bit of screaming and shouting and especially stuff on such a minute. Here's my understanding of it. Having watched, I wasn't there, obviously, I was ringside in the sunshine in Barnsley and not covered in a plastic poncho down in Suffolk somewhere. Barry, once he gets up, Hooney, whether it's 8, 9, 9, 1, 10 and 1⁄2, 10 and 1⁄11, it's irrelevant.

He doesn't stand to attention. He doesn't know where he is. He stumbles for a while. Now, he might have been fully recovered by 13. This is Lennox Lewis's argument. If the count was 12, I'd be undefeated in my career because Lennox is gone at 7-8-9, but he's back in the game at 12 and the two fights he loses by knockout.

So Hooney is in no condition at 10 seconds. And to be honest, you know, I think John Laithen, once he starts the rise at 9, could have seen him staggering and could have waited. No, he's too late. He's 9 and out. You're on your feet. You're not up.

You've got to be up. But he's got to assess it at some point. So one thing Leifam's doing, in addition to watching the timekeeper, he's also looking at the fighter. He wants to get a sense of their eyes, which is why Jack, whatever his name is.

I forgot his name briefly, who allowed Tyson Fury to continue. Jack Reese. The reason why Jack allowed Tyson Fury to continue, and this is not me speculating, this is me having talked to Jack Reese several times since that unbelievable night in December of 20,

whenever it was 19 or 18, 18, 18 at the Staples Center. Jack Reese could see Tyson Fury's eyes. So he knew, irrespective of how he looked like he'd been asleep for seven seconds, he could see Tyson Fury's eyes with Crystal Clayton. And so could we, from our position at ringside, Barry. But again, though,

they're all really valid points. I know. But they're also all irrelevant because... He's getting up at night. He's not up at nine, he's getting up at night. He's rising at nine, not... So that's what it is. So assessing him is almost irrelevant

because he's already nine and outs as he's nine when he's getting up, so he's out, because he's not up. I was just making a good argument. Yeah, no, so, I mean, so he hasn't... He doesn't have to assess all he's like. That's the, I mean, to the letter of the law,

that would be it. but also if we can pull threads everywhere here Fury against Uzik If that wasn't for the heavy championship at the world When he's on the ropes he stopped

100% The ropes keeping him up But once other fights They will let that continue They will take three four more punches 100% So you have to be allowed Afforded

to do things your own way And assess And realize situations You have to be you can make mistakes or you can decide what you want to do and you make a different decision the same fight

if you can reverse time are you off- Let me ask you this The only problem of the being is because Justice Hunney was so far out of head If I was his car and I'd be screaming blue murder Even though I think he was the right call Okay so Hooney this is how far ahead he was He was ahead 89 82 and two

scorecards which means he'd won eight rounds and lost one round according to two judges On the other judge he was 88 83 Which means he'd won seven and lost two according to the third judge. So he was in front, but we're talking about it a minute. It wasn't just that he was in front. He was controlling it.

Barry, let me ask you this. Just last point on the non-controversial controversial count. Had Hooney or did Hooney have eye contact with his corner, did his corner tell him a jump up at seven? Because had he jumped up at, had he been able to, hear me out, had he been able to get up at seven, he could have then done the classic Tyson Fury trick, the little wander, the wag, the st,

the swag like Tyson Fury did. He gained another five, six, seven seconds. Spit your gum shield out. Absolutely. Cost me a victory. Cost me, no, cost me, it saved me an extra 30 seconds of a beating. But, no, you can do all sorts of stuff

that can, like, run the cock down. But the fact, the truth of it is, he wasn't looking at his corner, because he wasn't, no, because he's just in the moment. His corner were behind him. He was right in front of us, and the corner was to the right, so he was, he turned to his left,

he looked, he looked at his eye, eyes. So he wasn't... What did you see in his eyes, Bell? If he looked at the left, he didn't look, he looked up. I mean, I don't know. The referee's got the best view, so he can assess it that way. But again, he didn't have to, he didn't get up in time. That's the bottom line. I mean, I wasn't

joking when I said, what did you see in his eyes? Because when AJ dropped Vladimir Klichko at Wembley on that incredible night, which was, you know, one of the all-time great fights and all-time great nights. When Vlad went down, he stumbled into the rope, and he almost

fell out the ropes and no word of a lie. As close as I am to you now, Big Vlad was looking at me, and it was like looking into deaf eyes. There wasn't a single ounce of life in Vladimir Klitsko's eyes at that particular moment. He was gone. That's why I asked. I wasn't being

facetious or Ponzi. I was asking a genuine question. Well, look at Fury and I was right next to Fury when he got dropped by Wilder. Which time he was on a floor about 84 times. We were talking about in three fights. The first one, when he his eyes were closed for a start. We were together something.

But then when they opened, he wasn't clear. Yeah, I know. The fact that he didn't jog around, I think the referee would have stopped it. Well, we are going to hear from Fabio Wardley in a moment, but I want to pick up on something you and I were talking about early on. When you're talking about, and I agree with it completely from watching it, it wasn't like Fabio was just behind.

He was getting a boxing lesson is maybe too strong, or maybe it isn't. Or maybe it isn't. It's not. It's not. I think, really for the first time in his career, See, this white collar, first of all, the white collar boxer story has been fantastic. Yeah. And also, you were very suspect.

Do you want to finish that story now? You were very suspect because you got, you know, the fact that he was, well, no, I don't think, I think it was quite important for this fight because I think the lack of experience of coping with things that are not, when things are not going your way, and you're not able to punch him out of trouble, which he did in the end, ironically. Well, he punched Shingula out his way out of trouble. See, he had hard. times against Fraser Clark.

In the field, yeah, yeah, okay. He was having, in between those hard times, he was having success of his own. But in this fight, he's having no success. And it was done by simple footwork of feet in and out. And also changing the height, levels, we call it now, changing your height. So punch it to the chest,

throw in the right hand higher, and punching lower, and then have the benching knees, and just that change of punch direction and the movement of the body and in and out with the feet, which sounds more complicated than it is, but still, you know, to have a heavy way to do it

effectively and efficiently like Honey did, it's quite difficult because they're heavy guys. But that through war these tactics off solely, because he didn't have a target of the hits. Usually he's having guys who... And that's just great. That's just pure grade. But he has a big target of hit, so he hits you anyway.

It doesn't matter. He feels something. So he gets some sort of satisfaction even when he's being outboxed. So he's making you work hard. I think the whole tactic with a being, you might be behind, but we're making you work hard for it. So down the stretch, with my grit and termination,

my will to throw against all odds. Grit and quit. Yeah, that's brilliant, yeah. Just to commit to everything, Nigel Ben style, will be enough to get me out of trouble, which we all thought that was going to be the case in a more competitive fight.

It wasn't working for him. And then he stopped throwing the right hand because he was afraid to miss, because he was getting caught. So I think he was lost. He won't admit this, or maybe he will. But I think it was too comfortable for Hurny,

and if anyone was going to get stopped, there was no signs of it. Would that explain, Barry, throwing at head why Hooney was, I don't know, he was so magnificent in defeat. He was, you know, he calmed his team down. He said, come on, team, let's, you know, this is boxing. We'll come back because he knows that he didn't, he wasn't like he, you know, he lost a slug fest.

He got caught with one perfectly timed, whether it was meant or not shot. That's why I asked, what was it, did it take that shot? I mean, that sort of defeat, I think, people react different ways, but I understand that he's reacting because he boxed so well and he was so dominant

that he'd just be, oh, I get it, that was doing so well, boxing perfect. In the guy's backyard, literally in his backyard. Everything was up against, he was up against it in every sense.

But now it hurts him more now. Yeah. No, he's like, now I can't believe. Literally as we're speaking now, he's walking on there at a quantum's playing. Hopefully he's turning left. There's no guarantee, though.

He made one mistake, and people can over-analyze that. Well, that's what social media's for. than this, shouldn't have done that. Rubish. You're leading in a fight that you're winning. And also, we all make, you can't be perfect for every state and every wrong.

Also, Barry, it wasn't like he was reckless. Okay, listen, we didn't speak to Hooney after the fight. We'll hear from Eddie Hearn in a moment, his promoter. But Cal Sajad of the BBC did catch up with Fabio Wardley. It's Fabio and our man,

Cal. Congratulations. You had 20,000 fans quite literally singing in the rain. Now, a lot of them had lost hope. You hadn't lost hope. summed that all up for me. Yeah, look, I don't even know if they had. I think everyone that turned up in that ring knew my capabilities, knew what I had in the locker, knew I could always pull it out of the bag. The game plan doesn't always go smoothly, doesn't always go together exactly

how you imagine it. And as a good boxer, as a good athlete, you have to learn to think on the fly and adjust things, and that's what we did. You said you went back to the corner at some point during the middle round, and you had a word with yourself. What did you say to yourself? A few swear words, a bit of this and that But the core of it was just switch on It was like, was realise where you are Pay attention to the moment, the opportunity that's been given to you

And don't go out soft, give it your all. And then if I got all the way through the fight And Justice still won But I knew I finished them last round's hard And put every effort into it, I'd be okay with that But the performance and the attitude Going up to, leading up to them kind of that seventh and eighth round, whatever

I wasn't happy with so he has to make adjustments. Now, I know you wouldn't make any excuses had you lost, but the occasion, you know, realizing your dream ever since you turned pro, did it get to you a little bit in those early rounds? No, to be honest, what got to me a bit probably was the success I had in the first round. I caught him sweet right at the end of the round. Watched him wobble, watched him go a bit, and I thought, you know what, this might be a bit of an easy night's work.

I might get to him a bit quickly, yeah. And probably did myself over with a bit of fog, sense of security. and he was smart while he didn't let him so get caught like that again. So yeah, we had to kind of ride the wave a bit and then pull it off a bit later. David Adelaide, Fraser Clark, now Justice Hooney, the apprenticeship is well and truly over. What's the biggest lesson you've learnt tonight? Keep my hands up, maybe. Nah, look, maybe don't get overconfident too much belief in the power, really.

You're thinking, oh, you know what? Especially after I hit him in the first round, I thought, yeah, you know what, I'll probably walk through him in a round or two. out of there. And it's a lesson to learn that not people aren't, people aren't just going to fall over, roll over. This is a massive night, massive opportunity for him. I know it's all about me and it's at my hometown, my home club and everything, but the opportunity for him was huge as well. So, yeah, look, there's a lot to learn, a lot to take from that performance, but primarily that. And now I was going to ask, how do you top this where fatherhood awaits? Now, are you ready

for the night feeds? Yeah, look, this is probably the best moment of my life. That will stay on top of the list for about a week, maybe a few days, and then, yeah, my first child would be born and yeah, everything will be a very different life for me going forward. But look, I can't wait. I'm looking forward to it. So Fabio there, first of all, obviously, congratulations when he becomes a father in the next 10 or so day. Something that you've done a few times and I've done a few times. And I feel like being a dad, is there, Bell? Well, to be honestly, I'd rather, I'd rather box again. You're not making a comeback on it? Right, no, I mean, if I could take the kids back In fact, you are one of the only former world champions who are still living

who's not been on Jake Paul's list. I'd be upset if I was you. I'm so smart. You haven't even known. You're joking. You're joking. He said guys the same weight. I'm actually... You're taller than Giovonda Davis.

He's fighting him. Same weight. So in all fairness, I'm not going to make you feel bad. Or unwanted and unlove. But why hasn't Jake Paul reached out to you? He's reached out from Tyson to Giovanna Davis. Why is he overlooking you, son? Back to real boxing, right?

But seriously, though, I mean, Fabio, still, still, though that's a real, it's a real wake-up call for him, I think in many ways, still finds a way to win. I mean, you've got to give him his credit. Even late in a fight.

And by the way, it wasn't like the last second, by the way. So, no. And what he said was going to happen, actually happened. Yeah. But he said, you've got to be perfect. Yeah, yeah.

You've got to be perfect all the time. I got to be perfect. One second, yeah. And that's exactly what happened. So, you know, Kudos to him. Bell, you were down there, you were ringside, you were socialising, trying to stay dry.

You were doing none of those things, but I'm just giving you a big build-up. What was the word? What sort of names were being thrown around for Fabio going forward? See, I think Warren's interview was fairly Warren-esque where he put the bricks on stuff, I think. And he said, listen, you know,

he's got himself in a good position. when when do our boxers music for all the belts then the mandatories will come into play the first mandate he made it clear was the WBO and that's Fabio number one no Fabio will be in the queue he's WBA number one so Fabio will be in the queue so I think that was a very obvious sign

that he's thinking listen we're not we got plenty of time for it and I think that's important because and there's plenty of Fabio fights out there in New Venice David Adelaide the British champion, you would love a rematch. I looked around that stadium and I thought,

and I went, it was not, it was, I was something 20 plus thousand, 25,000 people in there. It's fantastic, maybe more, but it was really,

and the rain didn't deter anybody. Cool. And I looked on, I gone, a white-collar boxer did this. Well done, amazing, isn't it? Yeah.

Unbelievable. I mean, so you've got a commodity there that you don't want to get beat. No, absolutely. And by the way, like, they're going to follow them everywhere now,

so I just think he stays where he is. Like, I know, he's, He got a nice little profile there. He won't be able to go there next, but there's plenty of names from there who are not at their peak

or not world level that he could fight and be a good, exciting fights. I mean, unless he doesn't want him. I mean, that's the problem. Because they get that world rating and then you just think you're world class. But the thing is, listen, traditionally,

traditionally, the Americans still do it, but the Europeans, we don't do it. If a guy's got that rating, he's not going to go, He's not going to go from back to back Fraser Clark fights and then beating Hooney unbeaten. So he's fought three fights against undefeated fighters in a sequence. He's not going to go from that,

fighting those type of guys that we used to import years. Barry, I don't think the public can stand for him in an easy one. They might not, but his team got to go, listen, and you always got that equalizer and you are learning. But I agree with a butt, by the way. It was clear there that you came up to go with a different style. That's because of the amateur background and grounding comes in. because you were able to think on your feet

because you've had to do it as an amateur to go through tournaments because you never know who you fight it. He was just instinct. And also he did have a late replacement so I might have to change him slightly for him, but still, he had the guy who was moving his feet, changing the level

and he took his rhythm away. So, I mean, if I was hurting, a rematch would be the obvious thing to say, but they're not going to take that. Why not? No, I mean, Fabio's not going to want to act again. Not after that. See, that was a hard night for him.

He had no success up until the, the punchman landed. Bell, I mean... Let me let me say it. I'm going to whisper this. It's a bit crowded the situation in a moment with the heavy weights. But the heavy weights that Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren have, it's very, very crowded. And it's quite complicated getting the 10, 12, 15, 16, 8 of them fights.

So if there's any of those combinations that can make a natural fight, perhaps it could be a remit. Chazora is the obvious one, isn't he? Still going. Chazore's all the arena. It's still amazing. I mean, I was going to talk about. about this later on, but we'll do it before Eddie Heard.

There's also been talk over the weekend. I don't know if it was mentioned at Ringsside, that there'll be a show in Saudi Arabia in August and that Dillion White, who's whatever 40 years of age or whatever he is, that he might in theory fight Moses Atam, who was Ringside celebrating, who's only 20. So what I'm saying is

that that fight could get made, but you're looking to make these guys advice, and I tell you're not going to get, we're not going to get guys coming back in absolute wall covers anymore. Our business is not operating. It might operate that way five years time, but right now it's not. But listen, I'll tell what we've got to do.

We've got to, we've got to crack on here. We've got to hear from Eddie Hearn. Here's Eddie Hearn talking to Cal Sajad about the fight, the night, and Hooney. Eddie, you've seen some dramatic turnaround in your time. Where does that rank? Right up there. I mean, the fight was over.

It was so one-sided. But it's never over in a heavyweight division, and it's never over until the 12th bell rings at the end of the round, and Justice just switched off for just a second after a virtually faultless performance and paid the price. Traded up when he didn't need to. Got sloppy and got caught with a right hand.

And, you know, the ref, I don't think the ref actually let him get up, which I would have liked to see, but it was a huge shot. And, yeah, massive credit to Fabio Wardley because he got battered all night. But he hangs in there and he can really punch and he always tries to win the fight and he pulled it out of the bag. Take me back to that moment. 20,000 fans were lost for words.

when you saw that punch land, how did you feel? Just couldn't believe it really. You know, I mean, the fans were so quiet for the whole fight because they were watching a one-sided beatdown. Frank Warren, George, everybody was quiet because we were thinking, my God, this is a walk in the park. And then, you know, when you get a knockout like that that no one expects, the drama is even more intensified.

And that's what it was. It wasn't like they were waiting for Fabio to win. They thought it was over. like the rest of the people watching. But that's why you've got to give Fabio unbelievable credit. It showed a lot of heart in taking a beating, but then came back and found the punch to end it all. And what does that do for heavyweight boxing a moment like that?

That's what makes things so exciting. I mean, Justice Hunney, you know, they're both undefeated heavyweights. Justice Huny took this fight on four or five weeks notice. He flew over, he took the opportunity and showed the world how good he is tonight. You've got to understand the defeat is never the end of the world, especially when you put in a performance like that. He'll be involved in all the big heavyweight fights, but tonight, you know, it does belong a little bit to justice,

but tonight belongs to Fabio Wardley, who just produced a rabbit out of the hat when the fight was pretty much done. He's not your fighter, Fabio Wardley, but you've known him for a long time. He was your fighter. You said how pleased you are for him. Realistically, how far do you think he can go?

Fabio's realistic. He knows, and he said by his own admission, I'm not of the skill of these guys in the heavyweight, heavyweight division. But what I can do is I can find a way and I can punch and I'm exciting. You know, you see when Fabio was going backwards tonight, the inexperience that he has. He was getting, you know, pretty beat up in there.

And, you know, maybe you look at this justice, just put the foot down a little bit, but you don't really need to because you're winning so easy. Just keep doing what you're doing and break him down. and, you know, but I don't think, you know, Fabio's, by his own omissions, necessarily a world-class heavyweight, but nor was Deonté Wilder. And look what he did with his power. And Fabio has that one-punch knockout power, and he has plenty of heart.

And, yeah, you know, they're both really good, former, undefeated heavyweight. And that's so great for the division to see those two fighting each other. So a great night, big respect to Fabio, and justice will come again. So that was Cal Sadad there talking. into Eddie Hearn, obviously both of them staying dry. That was right now. Meanwhile, Barry, hang on, hang on, hang on. We had never monsoon ridden Ipswich.

Did I mention monsoon enough? What was the beautiful sandy beaches of bansdy all about, Steve? You know, it was a point, right? I was doing this corporate thing up in one of the hospitality boxes, and I couldn't hear anything, but I could see. And no word of a lie, there was this mad light coming through, and it was the sun at about 7 o'clock. The sun had this gap between the two parts of the...

stadium because it's not adjoining the round stadium it's stand stand stand you know old school and the sun was coming in and it was blinding so all of the people because they've got a good sense of humor people from barns they trust me or the tarn as they call it half a dozen men happen to have a pair of sunglasses on them so they're all putting sunglasses on and standing in the window looking down at the ring and covering their eyes like they couldn't see and taking pictures of themselves so it's actually true so it was it was sun drenched let me tell you a funny story about on the way to the ground Really early, five o'clock. And we come off the M1, we pull in,

we're on the outskirts of Barnsley, we get into Barnsley. And I see over on the right, about six fellas walking, then I see two couples, then I see a couple of women and one guy, then I see like five guys and two women. And they're walking,

and I was just about to turn to the people from Radio Sheffield who I was working with. And I was about to say, is there a match on? Because it felt like that. You know when you're in Cardiff and there's a match on?

And of course it wasn't a match. It was the other entity that exists in Barnsley, Callum Simpson. He's like the team. You know, he is their new... Johnny Nelson, God bless him. He can have a great line, Johnny Nelson.

He said, you know what, Buncey? He said, I think that Callan Simpson is the Elvis of Barnsley, which has got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever, but I gave Johnny because I thought it was funny. Not from Johnny. Yeah, not for Johnny. So, Baldy, the fight itself ended in the 10th round with Ivan Zucco

going down three times from a combination of about 15 right uppercuts. How he stood for the same punch in the same corner, I have no idea. He gets up after the third knockdown and the towel comes in, rightly so. He was hurt, but he wasn't as hurt as he was drained. However, he had dropped Callan Simpson twice, once after eight seconds when Callum was square, and then once it, right at the end of the third, when Callum got caught with a couple of half shots, one on the temple, and he wasn't hurt, but he knew he knew he'd been caught. I thought Callum won just about every single round, to be perfectly honest. in the two rounds he got dropped in.

But just like your fight, it showed a few in victory, and it was fun and it was entertaining. It also showed that there's work to be done. Yeah, it's ironically, it's a funny way because they both fights for both top of the bills on Saturday show as much vulnerabilities as to do their strengths, but it's the way for your market strategy,

it's the perfect way to win. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's good to watch Callum Simpson and he's strong but that Saturday show just and he has ability and he has good structures to his work

and he's got a loyal following man that's proper genuine hometown hero there's a point there but he's either fighting for the crowd which is the worst thing you can do for a boxer he denied that to me afterwards but it looked like he was fighting to the crowd

for me or you believe in your own hype which is another bad thing which definitely doesn't I'm going to go and make on that he can box and all it was there is not using your brain.

And that eagerness, when people have power, and they quite often do it, when they have power, they want to get from A to B as quick as they can. But that journey to get to be, if you rush it,

you smother your work. And also, sometimes you move your feet too quick and don't throw any punches so you get too close. And he was doing that. Because what that allows then. Okay, you land your shots, but also you might catch a punch coming in

or... Unnecessarily so. He or she can throw with you. Yeah. So what you need to do, is punch and then move your feet which he can do and he can do quite well

sometimes though yeah and also he throws he throws in blistering combinations and I'm all for changing the weight of your shot that's very clever but he throws too many so if he reduces that

rather than throw eight throw five there's been more weight than every shot you still haven't the desired effect because he's getting to a stage now in his career where flurries some fighters are looking

to the floor, could they being overwhelmed? Yeah. With just sheer pressure. When you go up a level, that doesn't happen. They'll just fire with you. And Zucco did take him closer to that level. Maybe not on that level, but closer to it. This European level is good.

So, Calam Smith, he can box better than that. Callum Simpson. Yeah, Callum Simpson. Everyone did Callum Smith all blooming night long. I said Smith, I just, I mumble. Okay. That's all. Enough for Swansea.

No, but, no, the Welsh version of Simpson is Smith. Oh. But I So it was alright And it's exciting to make the fight But I think He needs to use his brain more Be a little bit more structured

But it was a good scrap Yeah And he finished it really well I mean His pressure wears you down And he knows that And that's why he wants to get there Really quick

But I think You know You could do that a little bit more Beyond the longer shots Where he has that range to do it Well I'd like to say at this point That's sorry By the way

He's a massive super middleways Yeah Huge Well in all fairness Bell I mean most of his fights He's been well Above the Super

I see the picture with him with 74 and 75s. I seen a picture of him recently with David Benavides. Yeah. And he's bigger than him. Oh, wow. And he's a big old lump. He's a massive lump. Now, I'd like to say that I'd like to bring you a brilliantly emotional interview from the ring when I climbed up afterwards.

But it was so chaotic, so noisy. And a couple of things went wrong with a kit. Plus, I was shouting and screaming. That just sounds like laziness to do. No, no, no. I did the thing. I did the thing. I mean, it was emotional.

It was good. But I'm not going to do that. Your knees. No, no. But one of the things that is important about where he goes from here. So I did catch up with Ben Shalom, the boxer promoter. And there was lots of noise that day about his deal being over with Sky. So it's a two-fault.

It's a two-part interview this with Ben Shiloh. First of all, talking about Callan Simpson. But don't go away because he starts to talk about the present situation. So here's Ben Shalom, who I managed to capture as I was leaving Oakwell. Some have gone in by then. at night, about midnight. Here I am with Ben Shalom. It was ridiculous, but the flash knocked down in the first round, I think

I'm okay to call it that was a warning. It was a warning that Zucco carries a lot of power, particularly in that left hand, and he kept finding it. And the thing is, the way Callan fights, he does, he come forward fighting, so he can get... Fights of his heart. And he did. And Zucko is the reason

why he's got 18 knockouts out of 21 wins out of 21 fights. He's a serious puncher. Callan found that out, but I was confident he would come through I could see that that upper cut was going to be the way to finish this fight and he found it a few times at the end and what I finish. I mean, he feeds off the crowd as well, doesn't he, Callum? You can sense it, you can sense it.

And also the crowd, in fairness, feed off him. He is British boxing's biggest hometown hero at the moment. I think that's a fair comment. I think he's the biggest ticket seller that we have in this country 100%. I mean, we've done a lot of stadium fights now, but usually it's for a world title. or usually it's a pay-per-view show so to be selling out a stadium

for your Europeans out you only think how big it can get I don't think there's anyone left in Barnsley but I think pubs are empty won't be tonight but Yorkshire was Yorkshire was right behind him and he deserves it

he's worked extremely hard I met him when he was fighting on the small horse shows and he's worked for every one of his fans tonight and as you said the connection between him and the fans I love being up here I love being in the north I love seeing that real grit And they just, they're so excited that one of their guys, and as they said, one of their own. One of their own is doing it on the big stage like tonight, and it's the start of a special career.

And I think he's sensible enough as a fighter. He might get carried away sometimes at the ring, but outside the ring he's sensible. I think he realizes he does need a little bit, where he is still work in progress. He 100% is. Look, as I said, I've had lands fighting for European titles, third or fourth on the card, because that's where they're at in their career. His popularity is why he's headlining stadium. in his European title.

So he is still a work in progress. He knows he still is. He's still learning. He's got to contain himself really. He's an excitable fighter. And that's why he's so fun to watch. But there's levels to go. In the end, his quality showed,

but there's levels to go for Callum. But I think that's what makes it exciting. And what might happen with him is say, for the end of the year, he'd like two fights. I think he could get two fights in. In an ideal world, Ben, which route would you go?

What are you planning? Look, I tell you, There were a lot of people calling for that Mark Jeffers fight. And obviously Mark has lost on the undercard. Come up and stuck against Sean Hempill, who is a great fighter. And I can only think that getting married as part in the middle of your camp is never a good idea. Callum has to look to world level now. You know, the idea is last year we were here for the British and Commonwealth.

Now we're here for the European. Next year it has to be for a world title. So he's going to have a big fight in September. Then hopefully we get back here fighting for a world title. And what a story of that would be. It's been a fantastic night here, a brilliant fight and a brilliant end to the first half of the year. But a lot of news today, if I could ask you this question, a lot of news today flying around the boxer contractor that won't be renewed with Sky or Sky are looking at not renewing it. Can you bring us up to date on where we stand with it?

Yeah, look, there's been a lot of speculation and that's more speculation tonight. We're still in discussions with Sky. We do have a big announcement coming very. soon. I think in the past four years to see the business and where it's got to has grown pretty phenomenally. And yeah, a lot of the fighters now get into the peaks of their career

but we as a business have to think about how we grow and how we get bigger and that means the biggest budgets and that means the biggest nights. And yeah, we'll have an announcement soon but in the meantime, still in discussions with Sky and looking forward to the second half of the year.

And is that soon as in the next week or soon as in the next couple of months. What's your got feeling? This month will have a big announcement. We're ready to go with it. It's been a really busy six months for us. A lot of results that could have gone either way. The Eubank won.

The Wittaker one. The Ewan. The Vidal one. Lauren Price. Callum Tonight. It's been a... We'll win six months. And so you can only take stock of that at the end. We have big stars that are ready to headline shows and a big announcement this month.

We will look at what Ben Shalom was standing. about where boxer and his viters are going next. But what next then for Callum Simpson himself? Although I've got to tell you, around this table, there were four of us around this table. He's been called Callan Smith about 15 times, and we're only drinking water and cans of Diet Coke.

What next for Callum? Again, I think, you know, a little bit like the show in Epswich, it just shows that maybe you could, there's nothing we'll stay at this level for a little bit longer. He won't feel that way, because they want to know, nowadays more than ever, you're looking for

world titles. No one stays at their level for more than one fight. Which is really sad. The European level has about five grades of quality. Yeah. So you can stay there and box somebody who's brilliant or someone who's quite average but it's still a good level.

And also, because he has such a great fan base already, you can put him indoors or outdoors, he's selling out. It is a loyal fan base barrier as well, mate. But everyone's going to want to do business with him. Yeah. So he can afford. Like Ricky hadn't do, the WBU, he can afford

to stay at this level and just do a couple more learning fights without losing any momentum. That's quite important that is. He had a natural fight lined up with Mark Jeffers, who was meant to win on the undercar. He let himself down, Jeffers. I don't know what it is.

I think he just thought, and this is not a criticism of Mark Jeffers, who I like. He's unbeaten in 20 going in against Sean Hemphill, and Hemphill's got a varied record, done lots of sparring with different things. No, he boxed really well. I thought Mark was waiting too long, and maybe you thought, He fought a bit like a man that just thinks he's got to show up, Bally.

You know what I mean by that? He didn't move his head. He didn't move his head. He didn't move his head. He didn't move his head. So that was one that fell out of bed. But as you say, there are hundreds of hundreds and hundreds of Europeans out there. Hamsa Shira as he wants.

Listen, in an ideal world, especially, well, we'll deal with Ben Shulam and where he might be going. The Hamza Shira, if I'm going, assuming he gets past Edgar Belanger on that ring show on the Saturday, the 12th of July, which is only, whenever it's 12th or 13th. Coming up, whatever. Is it the 12th or 13th, isn't it? 12th, yeah. I think I was right. There's another show on the 11th, isn't there?

Yeah, that's Katie Taylor. It's only a massive sold out of Katie Taylor Netflix gig. One of the greatest bill, female bills of all time taking place the day before, and it will sell out. That's not. Barry, so that's Callan Simpson. Let's leave him there. We like Cherres. The Mark Jeff has, hey, you know, who knows?

Maybe that could be resurrected. But we know there are hundreds of Europeans flowing out of that. But we know that because they've been fighting our supermindles and middles and our light heavies in non-title fights for the last 10 years or so. Just go and recycle one of them. Let's do a little bit with what Ben Shalom was saying there about the Sky Deal coming to an end or in theory coming to an end.

I don't think it's been officially announced as over, but I think we all know it's over. And he moves on. So does he go to TNT? Does he go to DeZone? My money, my gut feeling, as he goes to DeZone, and he joins the party alongside Frank Warren,

alongside Eddie Hearn, which is great news for British boxing fans if you've got a DeZone, subscription because that means that you're, you're going to end up having British boxing 40 plus times a year. That's great for you as well. You'll be, you'll be retiring to Monica. We'll be recording this pod in Monton from now on. I don't think I'll be recording me you anymore, Steve. Exactly. Nothing wrong with that, son. It'll be, it's funny. Because I'm only thinking, some of my colleagues have signed the contract already.

You know, you know, just, just using that language, some of my colleagues. The Barriers, Jones that used to sit down in D. Martinez a years ago, he would never have said, well, some of my colleagues, that's just not even your language. You'd sit outside, you wouldn't bring me in. Yeah, we'd send you a photo. He'd feed you.

You'd do for the window. Some of my colleagues, just write that down. The fact, if they can all, if it makes fights easier to make, which has been happening recently, which is shouldn't do you. It's a good thing for the sport, isn't it? Absolutely, you're given. So, I think he ends up going to

the zone. The announcement's going to be coming soon. and just to clear a few things out. He might go to the zone. I even assumes that. But like you said, that means to fit... It sounds like a good idea.

We can just have boxing Thursday, Friday and Saturday. But one, the broadcasts they've got to pay for production costs for all those. They're not going to do that. That costs more than what it's worth. I don't know how much money boxing brings in for the zone, so I don't know their business. It's great for us boxing fans.

We're all junkies for the sport. But I mean... I'm on your side. I'm on your side. I agree. I think it is. That's make it crowded and complicated. What I was saying, you're asking Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn, any chance,

you can give us some dates back so we can give to this guy. And they're going to go, oh, none of the million years. That is not going to happen in a zin. Or will it? You never know. No, not in a trillion zillion years. That's not going to happen. No, but everyone loves each other. I would all like, we're a new breed of boxing people.

A new breed of sight. Anyway, that was the, that was the weekend. Barry was in Ips, which in the, rain, did I mention that? And I was in Barnsley in the sun, did I mention that? Now, before we look at a couple of things, one of them, one of them very sad and one of them, actually, both of them sad, one of them extremely sad. There was one of our favorite fighters in action this weekend somewhere in the world. Joy Opataya defending his Cruzeaway Worldtile, looking devastating and taking a man out like Jayopatire does, and then talking

afterwards about going up to heavyweight if he can't get those massive unification fights at cruise away. We love Jai Oppa Taya. Let's get that way. And we're not half the timers. We've been in a Jai Oppa Taya business for an awful long time. He's very, very good. He's very talented. But people are talking about him like he's a pong-for-pong fighter and I don't see it yet. And the reason I say that is the ability is immense. But his resume is, is shallow. It's who you're going to fight. It's who you fight. You've got to have some names on that resume. Don't whisper because he's not here. Everyone scared him, by the way, as well. So are you? No, no, no. Don't you. Don't you start, do you start pointing. You were scared. You were

You were in Saudi. You were panicking. You were panicking. In the hotel in Saudi one night. You were under the table. We're doing a part. We're doing a part. We mentioned it. You sit to me under the table.

Fancy, as Chikon, yeah? You. You shrunk the shorter than me. You did. It's ridiculous. You were, you shrunk in my side in my pocket. Only because you couldn't face sitting in. He was looking at him.

We were looking at me. We're not, I ain't be scared of anyone in my life. You know what? I can't fight. I'm a little. I'm little. I'll contact him. I'll let him know.

I'll let him know. I'll let him know. What are you on a bowl? Barry, you were... Listen, what I'm saying is, right, he's a boxer. People think he's some sort of destroyer. He's a boxer, more than a fighter. I mean, and people forget that.

And he's really good. I think he might be the best cruiserweight, but his resume compared to Zudor Ramirez is night and day. Absolutely. That's what I say that. That's a great fight. Let's hope they can fight.

If they can't fight, I think that will happen. I think it will. So, Joe, I would say, had another win, and we like him. and also Paddy English. He loves Joe Albertier. He loves him.

He doesn't say a word for this company. Paddy English loves him. Well, I've got to call him that because if I call him Paddy Paddy, Brian Peters calls me out three minutes later who is Irish. He says you've got to call him Paddy English. So there's protocol attached to this.

He's good to watch. And when he boxes below his level, he does what you should do, and he gets rid of him very easy, very quickly. Barry, a couple of things. we're going to deal with Vasul Lomachenko calling it a day. You and I did an awful lot of Lomachenko fights. We did more than any of the UK broadcasts.

You and I have worked. You and I have worked in tandem. So a couple of stats, 21 fights in here, nine years of pros, 16 world title fights, and just a whole list of great names and a whole list of great memories. A bit of old age, a bit of frustration, and a bit of concern for his home country, Ukraine.

But what a... I'm not putting words in. in the mouth. What a magnificent father. What a privilege and a pleasure to watch from ringside and also in the middle of the night, 3 o'clock in the morning for the studio. Forget what he won, two Olympic gold medals and a plet of all titles.

Just the way he did it. His ability. I know I always talked about that movement around the target, that semi-circle. I mean, he highlights out of any fight I've ever seen in my life. His movement is unique. I mean, people have there create this movers of all time and stuff, but the way he moves around that target

is like, you know, I'm in love with Rodriguez because of that. Yeah. He doesn't do it the same way, but it's beautiful to see. Not a bad version of Obama, is he? If you don't mind his answer. Not a bad version. He carries more power, well that's why. But I mean, but to have the confidence and also the ability to see up close like that and always, to punch a move at the same time, to punch with authority and move at the same time are almost impossible things to do. And he could do it whether he's going side to side, front or back. He was just immense.

I mean, well, and also, what did they call him for a while? What was his nickname for a while? Quichenko. Yeah. Nicholas Walters was a big puncher. Yeah. He made him quit.

You remember? Quit. Yeah. He made another other kick in Mariago. Rigondou quit. It's too small Rigando, but still. It doesn't matter. He was actually just beautiful to watch.

Yeah. I think that's something so. He was just beautiful to watch. So Lomachenko, sad to see him go, but I didn't want to see him. No, not sad. No, no, no, no, no. Sad to see him no longer fighting.

I don't want to see him. I would still like him and be his pick. I'd like him to be timeless. I'd like him to have that miracle potion allowed him like you to always look like he's the same age. You haven't aged a bit in 15. I look 50 and over 20, no.

There is that, Bell, apart from when you did your male modelling bit, when you did that German, the East German guy with the long, with the heels, the flares and the long hair. You joke about all right, but I was Mr. February once in a calendar.

True story. that's to leave it there though the imagination run wild trust me I'm leaving it there listen we shouldn't joke going into this next bit after a very very short illness and thankfully

he kept it very private on Saturday morning James Cook former British champion former European champion at Super Middleweight died in St Bart's Hospital in East London there had been a short illness a short battle against cancer

and what's I think overwhelming about the stuff that's come in since James died is just how much unilateral love and affection there is for him. It's absolutely, I think it's staggering. I'm not surprised, but it's absolutely staggering. And I remember talking to you when he died on Saturday morning and feeling to click in your voice. If anyone in the boxing world dies, you're always a little bit, like, oh, that's sad.

And when you've met him, it's always a bit sadder, but when they're genuinely nice people. And people always say that, but it's genuine with him. Like I did some work with kids. I used to work with kids, as you know, kids who were struggling in schools. And he did so much for his community, by the way.

He ran a club called De Pedro. He got an NBA in 2007. As a boxer, he would have been the British champion. He'd been the European champion. He was involved in an unbelievable series of fights, incredible fights. Never got the credit for those fights. Some of them should have been in front of 12.

20,000. They weren't there in front of 1,200. The fight with Mark Kailer in 1991. He met the Belfast

had been a British title. He won't. So he was constantly on the road. He was going to go to 7 or 8 cities around the world

just to try and get a living. But it was once he'd finish boxing his last fight I think's 19904. Loses the British title and not going to his car. Go on the belt.

Sorry, sorry, Steve. I was going to be James Cook. He had the opportunity to become a world champion. He had the opportunity to box for the WBO title. It was new at the time. Yeah.

And he turned it down to defend It was. Yeah. He lost it, yeah. Yeah, I think he stopped, didn't he? So, like, yeah, he would have been a world champion. Listen, it would be a world champion and a superstar now,

but in many ways he was a superstar. What he did is once he'd finished boxing, he was already working at a place called the Pedro Club. And this is an old-fashioned youth club with a boxing gym. I spent a lot of days and nights, days and afternoons there. And that's on what was in Corden Hackney to murder mile. And that's what he got his MBE for his work. And that was tireless work.

But it was also hard. hard work because there was never enough funding. But when he, I don't think James ever as happy as when he was in that gym there, that dirty, stinky, filthy gym sitting on the ring apron and talking. And the last time I saw him, actually, I was thinking about it this morning talking to Steve Lidditz. It was only a few weeks ago. It was about three days before the, Conner Ben, because he was there with Anthony Yard, Conner Ben and Chris Eubang.

And I remember talking to him and I saw him, I saw him come out of a room and it was obvious how ill he was. This wasn't just ill. This was really close, Bell. You know, I remember him coming right up close and cuddling him. He was like a bag of bones. And he was still in the corner with Anthony Yard.

Yeah, three days later though. He was, like, I've spent some time with him at dinner shows. I mean, he had run his company on his table quite often in West London and he'd always get invited to everywhere because he was such a nice blog. Everyone loved him. And what do you see with, when people say, oh, sorry about that, sorry about this.

all the photos I go up yeah every all the people who've been who've been around didn't be touched by him like you know I met him like quite a lot

a few times and didn't get the known double well but knew he was a lovely bloke that's all I knew and what he did for this and we gotta keep saying now

what he did as a box it was great what he did in this community was better that's why you see some of the boxes like Colin McMillan

and like that really really and that's gonna run and run and that's gonna run this has been a very long pod here we started in the rain

in Ipswich with Barry ring Fabio Wardley pulling out one punch to save a lost course. That wasn't too bad. Then I think I topped that with the sunset and the sun in Barnsley with Callum Simpson, never to be confused with Callum Smith, surviving two knockdowns, one in the first round, one in the third round,

to stop Ivan Zucco in the 10th. Then we talked about Lomachenko, then we had a little bit of a side trip down the Jaipatai Avenue, and then we came back to say goodbye, I think, in fairly decent style to James Cook who passed away. British champion who passed away on Saturday. Barry, it's been a pleasure and a delight. You're off to Saudi soon. I'm going to the Harrogate Box Cup next

weekend. I'll see you there. I'll see you there. I'll see you there. It's the number one thing on the fixture. Funny old business boxing. You can be in the sun, you can be in the rain, but you can be on the floor, as they say in the tray, when you find out someone you dearly love has died. I'm Steve Bunsen. This has been Five Live Boxing.

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