5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Ricky Hatton: The Hitman’s Legacy

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Will Ricky Hatton go down as one of Britain’s most beloved fighters? Mark Chapman is joined by Stacey Copeland, Anthony Crolla, and Steve Bunce to answer that question and reminisce the extraordinary career he had both in and out of the ring. They are also joined by Frank Warren who managed and promoted Hatton during his rise through the sport.

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That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Is Five Life Boxing. Tonight we celebrate, remember the life, the career and legacy of Ricky the hitman Hatton, who died yesterday at the age of 46. Steve Bunce is with us for the next hour, also two former boxers, two Mancunians as well, in Stacey Copeland and Aunt Croller, and we'll talk to Frank Warren as well, his former promoter later as well. I know all three of you who've been talking a lot over the last 24, 36 hours about Ricky.

And you hear some of those clips, Stacey, and it brings a smile to your face. but also it brings a tear to your eye as well. Yeah, absolutely. It's bittersweet, isn't it? What fantastic memories and, you know, that's ultimately what needs to be his legacy. His achievements, the fact that he would get in there with anybody, but most of all, his following,

it was like nothing else. And if you were lucky enough to grow up with that and be part of it, as I was, as aunt was, and especially if you're a young kid in a boxing gym back then, trying to emulate, Ricky Atten in sparring once you'd seen what he'd done with those body shots at the weekend and you were trying to do that as well. It was a very, very special time in boxing. It was a special time to be a Mancunian in boxing and it was a special time to be a Ricky Atten fan

and who wasn't. Well, do you know what? You two were Mancunian in boxing but also he made it a special time to be a Mancunian even if you weren't in boxing. And I can say that because I wasn't in boxing but I'm a Mancunian and so I, you know, you know, you know, you. You even just hear from Manchester, England, and it does. It makes you swell with pride, Anne. It does. He gave Manchester some of the greatest nights Manchester I've ever had,

and I'm not talking just about boxing. I'm not just talking about sport in general. I think that night with Costa Zoo was a special, special night. The old city was talking about it for weeks on end. And even just like, I remember when you ever come to town, and the press.

There's thousands in the square there and like, just say, I know Ricky said it time and time again, his biggest achievement, as good as what everything was, was his support, was his fan base, and he'll never be in Ricky Ann, I promise you that.

Like, I don't think anyone will ever get close. It was surreal. We're going to hear him a little bit later on when he spoke on the Rob Borough meets podcast about the fight with Costa Zub. I actually said to somebody, Today I was talking to Adam B, David Hayes, trainer. And I said to him, that night wasn't just a...

It was a great night for boxing, Steve. It was a great night for sport, and it was a great night for Manchester. Well, first of all, you have to picture there's 20,000 people, 19,850, to be precise, inside the MEM. And at 11 o'clock, there's still no Ricky Hatton. And at 1130, they bolted the doors, they locked you in, and the bars closed shortly after that. Then it was midnight, then it was 1 o'clock, then it was 2 o'clock,

and the ringwalk was 2 o'clock. But before the ringwalk in this absolute, this pit with 20,000 people baying, no one was sitting, it was incredible. The sweat was dripping off everybody. And just before the boxers made their ringwalk, Russell Crowe, who'd been out that night in town with Paddy Considine, the actor, because they'd just finish filming. And I spoke, and I'm going to name drop, you know, I'm going to say,

I'm going to Paddy about it today, just told he would remind me and I could remind him. Russell Crow gets in the ring, chappas. I almost feel like I should stand up and do this. And there's a bit of silence, then people realise it's Russell Crow. And he walks around the ring, smashing his chest like that. There was Bedlam, Bedlam. And then the best ever rendition and version of Blue Moon I've ever heard, played.

And then, I don't know, 11 rounds later, Ricky was on the floor crying and he was the world champion. And it was like that. I have to watch it back to remind myself that I sat six feet away from it, Chapas. It was that type of night. One of your greatest. It's one of my top five nights of all time. But the atmosphere might have been the best because of the event,

because of the occasion, because of a two-day jolly bender, whatever you want to call it, in Manchester, with the entire city getting completely and totally involved. And then 20,000 lucky people being inside there for the event. I think those, they're just, iconic scenes, particularly him and Billy Graham, on the canvas. And Ricky just realizing in that moment, his whole life's work had just been justified. His dreams had been fulfilled and he'd done it in his home city in front of all the people who loved him, his family, ringside, who he embraced,

you know, immediately after. And then got in the ring and then he celebrated with his fans. He had an emotional moment with Ray and Carol first and Matt at ringside. And then his mom and dad and brother and then jumped in the ring and he started jumping up and down and the whole place just erupted and I think those those will stick out in your mind of for any sports person that moment when that dream has actually

been realised and not everybody gets it many people chase the dreams he dared to dream and on that night he realised his dream and they had a nice thing at Hyde Town Hall our little town where we're from that he also put on the map at the Hyde Town Hall this year to commemorate 20 years since the Costa's U-Fight

So yeah, it sticks out in people's memories for sure. You mentioned Ray and Carol, his parents, they released a statement today. Richard was so much more than a world champion. To us, he was simply Richard, our son, a loving father, grandfather and brother, and a true friend to many. He had a heart as big as his smile. And his kindness, humor and loyalty touched everyone who was lucky enough to know him. Our loss is immeasurable and words cannot truly capture the pain we feel.

And yet, in the midst of our lives, grief we have been deeply moved by the overwhelming outpouring of love and support. It's been a source of great comfort to see just how many lives Richard touched and how widely he was admired and respected. You saw him Thursday at his gym. I think you went to the gym today as well. Yeah, I saw him Thursday. He just finished training because obviously he was getting into training for this fight out in Dubai where he was supposed to be now signing his contract. and yeah he was saying that he had a problem with his elbow and it was starting to hurt

and we just had a bit of a joke on us saying you know you are knocking on now Rick and once you start training or trying to do anything you know just all different parts of your body starts hurting and he was saying oh I think maybe we should adjust some bit so he was talking to Blaine Eunice who was my coach and who trains Rick's fighters and has worked with him for many years in the gym he was training him for this and training him for the last exhibition fight as well

and so they were just talking about you know we'll do paddles instead of pads we'll do this and that. Yeah, and that was it. So, yeah, to say it's a shock is a massive understatement. Today at the gym, what was... I'll leave you there, Stacey, just for a moment. It is going to be raw this evening. It's going to be tough this evening.

I know, Steve, you have spoken to Ricky's manager, Paul Speak, this evening. Yeah, I spoke to Speaky. I sent him a message when I got the news yesterday morning. In fact, it was Stace that contacted me about midday. So I sent a message to Speakey saying just thinking of you speak to me when you can

and I spoke to him about an hour ago and he filled me in on a few details about the Friday night and the Saturday night on Saturday night Ricky as Stacey stood there hadn't gone to a boxing show and Speaky had found out Sunday morning

and Speaky went round and led himself in to the house and in fact it was Paul Speak who found his great friend and the people's champion, Ricky Hatton. It was actually Speaky. I mean, as they said, we were talking off air before we came on. Speaky deserves a little bit of love because I can't even begin,

you can't even begin to imagine. It's a 25-year relationship they've had as his commercial and business manager. But more than that, is his close friend, is his confidante, is his... There's not really anyone closer. No, speaking. He did everything in Ricky's life. Yeah, I can't think of... Unbelievable relationship.

I can't think of another. a relationship like it in sport to be perfectly like you, Stacey. So, Speaky was the one that found him which is I don't know, in a kind of bizarre way, I'm kind of pleased it with speaking and not someone anonymous. Do you know what I'm to get what I'm saying, Stacey and aunt? Yeah. If there's someone going to find him,

I'm pleased it was Paul. Yeah, and I'd add to that, that we talk a lot in boxing about, you know, the people you can't trust, and there's a few of them, sadly, you know, sometimes it's a bit of a, that's the business side of it, but speak is not one of them. Speak is one of those rare human beings

who has been loyal beyond, just beyond sport to Rick, even in retirement. And he has never, ever, ever done anything that doesn't put Rick his best interests at heart. And it's taking a lot of stick for it. You know, people used to try and get into better bodies years ago to watch Rick train,

and it'd be like a bouncer on the door. And you can't come in and get out on everyone by. He's well grumpy him. But he was doing. doing it for the right reasons and everything he's always done has been for the right reasons. So yeah, perhaps that was... And no one knows Ricky better. And no one's been on...

We think we've been on the roller coaster, the Ant's been on the roller coaster, Stace been on a roller coaster, Stacey's been on a roller coaster, I've been on the roller coaster 27, 28 years with Ricky, but none of us. No. None of our experiences. And we might have seen some great moments. We might have seen some light.

We might have seen some real dirty, horrible moments. And there were some bad times. But speaking, he lived those bad times. Eyes and loss. Let's go back to one of the most definite highs. 2005, Riki Han, Costa Zoo in Manchester for the IBF and Ring Magazine, like Well to Weight titles. Here he is talking about that night, that fight, on the Rob Borough Meets podcast,

and here he is on his favourite person that he's ever punched. The one one I have most enjoyed hitting someone, which sounds ironic really, because he's a nice guy. You dream of becoming a world champion, don't you? And my chance came to fight the number one in my weight division. Because you can be a world champion, but with four to five world titles now, you don't mean you're the best in your weight division. I got a chance to fight Costizu in Manchester for the undisputed title.

And nobody gave me a chance of doing it. You know what I mean? The morning of the fight, you know, I got up in the morning, I read all the papers, Costi Zhu to winning two rounds, you know, Ricky to not go past six, you know. So I thought, God, this is the only one. only me that thinks I can win this, you know, but I believed in myself. And the critics became my fuel to try and succeed.

So, I mean, it probably cost you, I had to, or more than I wanted to do than anyone, because I wanted to, you know, nobody gave me a chance. And I believed in myself. And to do it in Manchester, my hometown, 22,000 fans, at 2 o'clock in the morning, because I had to go live to Australia and America, so we had to fight at 2 in the morning, which was a little bit awkward. But, yeah, that was, like, fulfilling my... go, my dream and Koscizoo was

a bit of a punching machine. He was knocking everybody out. So to win it in the manner which I did, which made him quitting his stool at the end of the 11th round, sort of like go, no more. And, you know, people must have thought, oh my God, who's this animal from England who's just made Koscizoo quit

and he's still? But I think, like I said earlier, I was very aggressive as a fighter. Do you know what I mean? I was a body puncher. I was always attacking. But then people were like I think, you know, they find myself different when they meet me out of the ring, do you know what I mean?

I've never once turned a photograph down, you know what I mean? I've always got time for people. I'm a boxing trainer now. So I want to try and give someone what I've got. Ricky Hatter with Lindsay and Rob Burrow in 2024. Come back to Ricky the person in a little while. Ricky the fighter. Tell me what impressed you growing up watching Ricky as a fighter.

I um I mean you see it's not a competition but I was on like the rickie a train from from early on I was only I was only a young kid I said it to staceous today they were like amateur shows it always be amateur shows giving trophies out and stuff and this was before before the British title and stuff like that and I probably fry his brain asking him about body shots and stuff so the body shots was the obvious one but um I always remember I remember old Leisure Centre, Tommy Peacott, was his first time.

Tommy Peacott was unbeaten from Liverpool, yeah, really hard fight. And I remember seeing him in the flesh, and I'd seen unheard of Ricky before it, but from that moment on, he just became a hero. I just wanted to, like Stacey said before, every kid, and it probably used to send amateur coaches mad. You used to try and fight like Ricky Aten. No probably.

He used to try and fight, yeah. They did, and they couldn't help people. That was the impact. It was the excitement he brought, but as the fighter, but I think he was so much more than that. I think as a fighter, an unbelievable footwork. You don't just win world titles. You don't just do what he'd done by being a good body puncher.

He was so much more than that. And he just obviously, he was a man who fought like a Mexican. And he was just, he was pleasing on the eye. But then he carried that risk with the cuts and stuff like that. Even McGee fight. Oh my god. Wasn't there that night? Unbelievable.

But then he got up and he found a way and he was just as a fight. I think he was very underrated. I think he was massively underrated. He was like that on the small old shows though because I'm only three years younger than Rick and you know when he'd be with Donnie, Paul Dunn who was his coach, another massive, massive character who sadly were lost earlier this year

but he was very much a father figure to Rick and they had a great relationship as well. I mean Dunny was as I say as colour. full of character as they come and we've got a lot of them in boxing so that's a summer if one stands out but he stood out on the you know on the on the on the amateur circuit didn't he like even as a youngster Rick had mad strength so you could be in the gym with Rick right and he'd be demonstrating something and you would just hope to God he wouldn't demonstrate on you because he would go like this and almost break every ribbon so and he'd be like Rick just do it on the bag you know he just had unbelievable strength When he was 15 and 16, when I was covering him in junior championships, he was stopping people with the body shots that Ant's talking about. And a little bit of a little bit of his history that's often forgotten is he went to Havana for the World Junior Championships.

Now, that's quite a daunting task, you know, an English kid, an English boxer being sent to Havana to the World Junior Championships. We didn't send our best. Sometimes we only sent extroverts. So we sent Ricky there. And he got stitched up in the semi-finals, absolutely stitched up. It was one of those that led to, We actually ended up at the court of arbitration for sport in Switzerland.

Ricky didn't go, but it wasn't to do with Ricky. It was to do with the judges and envelopes being passed around. It's all fully documented. No need for anyone to pack. Never a straightforward boncy story, isn't it? But Ricky got a bronze medal. He got a bronze medal at the World Youth Championships in Savannah. Then he won the ABAs about the same year.

He was 18 when he won the ABAs. And he had that style. But there's an interesting thing. We did something with Mike Costello and I did something with in his gym in about six, about five years ago. And he said, you know what? He said, I was meant to be a superstar. He said, but you think about it.

He said, so I was a superstar and I was knocking everyone out, and I'd done this. But I wasn't even, my name wasn't even on the poster. I do it in a London accent because you can translate to Mancunian. I said, my name wasn't even on the poster. They said, look, there it is there. We went and looked at it. And sure enough, Robin Reed, X, Y, and Z, X, Y, and Z, G, G, and Z, Gomes and Farnel and everybody. And there's no Ricky.

So he was making his debut without his name on the poster. About six fights later, he was the poster. It was the transformation. was like that. It was just absolutely like that. You have seen an awful lot of fighters in your time, Steve. You talk about covering him from 15, 16. He turned professional

when he was 18. 18. You know, we've taught, you know, he fought in witness. We talked about Oldham Leisure Centre and then he's, you know, and by the end of it, he's in Las Vegas. When did you think I've seen something special here? And, not only I've seen something special,

but I'm going to get carried away with it because he will deliver on his talent. It was obviously when he was an amateur that he was going to win a British title, that type of level. But it was five or six or seven fights in, maybe around that fight that the ant was mentioned there, the peacock fight. Certainly by about around,

fight 10 or 11 or 12, I was thinking, and I was sensing the growing crowd chappas. This is before he went on his mad MEN run, and he ended up having 12 fights there. And that's why it's only ever, for men and women of a certain age, it's only ever going to be the MN. Not because

we love the newspaper, but because we love Ricky and Ricky made the M-E-N his home, his fortress. So he ends up having 12 fights there between 2001 and 2005. And he caught everybody out. When we first went to the Emmy, when we, I'm using the Royal Wee, when we first went to the M-E-N with Ricky, I think the promoter Frank Warren, I mean, we get Frank on lately, he might correct me, but I'm sure he was looking at five or six or seven thousand.

And then suddenly the tickets just proliferated. He ended up having 15 defenses of a thing called the World Boxing Union title, which is a sort of second-tier world championship. But no one cared, because it doesn't matter who you threw in the ring with him, the 20,000 tickets went. No matter who it was, some faded guy who had been a super featherweight eight years earlier, the tickets went. And that was when he had the Eamon McGee fight.

And the funny story about the Eamon-Megie fight, Stace, is that Ricky and Eamon fight absolutely rip each other a bit. Aiman can barely walk, Ricky can barely walk. Ricky's been cut really badly. He's been on the canvas, he's been really hurt. He wins the decision. Anyway, he's in his dressing room. When I was in the dressing with him after the fight,

he said, I'll just go and see McGee make sure he's okay. No word of a lie. He came back half an hour later. We'd gone into McGee's dressing room. McGee's on about his seventh Guinness, jigging, having the best time in the world. Speaking to people, speaking the people back in Belfast, you wouldn't think he'd had a fight, let alone lost.

And it taught Ricky something. It taught Ricky something. No matter how bad you think you've beaten the other guy. You haven't beat him enough. Because McGee was absolutely celebrating. Why, Buncie talks there, Stacey and Anne. about the, you know, he fought the tickets flew off, the tickets flew off, the tickets flew off, the tickets flew off.

Why do you think that was? I think it's because of who he was. I mean, I think he was the first one, wasn't he, to attract what people referred to as a football crowd. Sorry, somebody said to me today, and I thought this was a brilliant, I thought this was such a brilliant way to describe what he managed to do. He was the first man to still have

the appeal of a terrestrial TV fighter in a non-terrestrial TV world. Just non-terrestrial. Just non-terrestrial. One year, yeah. Just non-terrestrial. So somehow he had that magic that captured everybody

without being on the BBC or ITV like Ben and Eubank. Like McGuigan and Ben and Eubank. And I thought, what, that shows the reach he had. He also brought together that, yes, the football element came because it felt like you were at a football match when you went to watch Rick, all the chanting and all of that. But it brought the red and the blue together.

Yeah, it did. Like that was different. It wasn't a red thing of blue. You know, like lots of boxers, you know, like they'll want a box at their stadium of the club that they support. We've seen it with loads of them, even just this year. And they tend to get that following. Rick was about Manchester.

So if you're a United fan, fine, like on Derby Day. Yeah, yeah. There was a clear divide. He wanted the Blues to win, but he brought together Manchester, and that was a really special thing as well. No, it wasn't.

You've got to remember, Rick. Bonsie mentioned it before. I didn't ever know there was, like, the most beautiful version of Blue Moon, but there was Reds, there was fans. Careful, Lent, yeah. No, but that's a really good. I mean, there was, there was...

He's going to regress. The United fans are. I have to cut that out. No, but no, no, no, but there's red, you know what I'm saying? There was red to who was just so fired up for the fight. Yeah. No one was bothered.

They loved Ricky for being Ricky. They didn't care like he was a blue. Do you know what I mean? And that became Rick's blue moon anyway, didn't it? And it did, yeah. Yeah, that was his blue moon. That was it, totally. And do you know what I mean?

And it was his sense of humour as well, chappers. Like you're talking about what invited it. Yeah, it was that mentality. He boxed in a way they've excited you. You know, you don't get excited like that about somebody who, even if they're dead effective, slows the fight down, picks the shots. that, you know, Ricky was all out action.

He was dead exciting. He was blistering speed. You know, he'd just launch at him. And it was, yeah, it made it a bit dicey at times. But that was part of the excitement. But watching him was really, really exciting. You know one of the oddest things, Chappas, we've talked here.

I know we haven't talked about all the fights, but we've mentioned Las Vegas and we've mentioned 12 fights at the MEN and we've mentioned Costa Zoo. We've been at Oldham Leisure Centre. We've been at Widnish Leisure Centre. He actually did fight at the Etienne in front of 50,000. I mean, just think about that.

That's not even come up yet. We've been on here half an hour. And I think that also shows the size of that fan base is that you can just casually have a 50-fell. Ricky Hatton now, if he's just about to beat Costa Zoo this weekend, he's about to have 10,99,000 person fights at Wembley or Down in Cardiff. And the stars that came out for it.

I don't know if you might have even been there, you might have been Bunce. after one of those at the Etty, he had like a big celebration at a dead like, well, fairly posh bar called Vermillion, which you might be familiar with

to us. He thought it was well posh. I'd never been anywhere like that. Yeah, I'd like three levels and loads of lights and hanging baskets inside and I was like, whoa,

he's reached, you know what I mean, he's reached the peak. And, but I remember being downstairs with my mum because my mum used to do Rickies,

massages, she was a sports therapist, so she used to do his massages in the buildup to fights and stuff. And so she and I got invited to the after party and we went. And Brian Robson just went like walking fast. And I was like, oh, quick get my camera because it was back in the day. He didn't have phones on your cameras and you had a picture and I can't believe it. She went, who was that?

And I was like, I can't believe he just said that. But yeah, that was, you know, he brought the proper stars out. And it's very rare you get that, you know, like massive, massive names across sport, across music, wanted to come and see Ricky. When you mentioned that one, see it, and you just said, about the stadium fights if it was now, you would be, I don't think to be a stadium big enough. You've got to think back

then, I know now we've become a little bit used to stadium shows. But like he fought one Lascano and you've got to remember, there's no disrespect one last can't, however. One loss who? Yeah, he wasn't an elite fight. Do you know what I mean? No, he wasn't. Ricky literally could have fought

anyone but people would just come out in the numbers just to watch him. I mean, and this was about social media as well. Do you know that's a big resource now to build fights. That didn't exist either. But Ricky didn't need social media. I was doing something.

He did karaoke. Literally, I was doing some stuff on Five Live yesterday I was talking about it. And I said it was almost, it got to that point where you felt there were a half dozen Ricky Hattons floating around Manchester, a group of doppelgangers, but literally shaking hands.

Because every person you met, and there's that famous story when they're queuing up to get into the weighing in Las Vegas. and they've been queuing since midnight because Costello sees them when he goes down at midnight and I see him when I go down at 7 and we're there at 12

and I wasn't sure if it was you or maybe it was Pugas it was someone from this parish and I was doing a live here I heard you talk about it yesterday even if it wasn't you I don't think it was me now I'm thinking

now's not the time to say I don't think that was very bad here I'll take credit for that I'll tell the story again briefly because it's absolutely true I think it was the Castillo fight so it's in the summer when he knocks him out in the ring

and it's unbelievable there's a Wayne Rooney story coming in a moment as well. And so I'm doing this thing and I say, let everybody out here in Vegas who's traveled out here, 20,000 people,

they've all got a Ricky-Hatt and Snorri. And whoever it was, says, rubbish, trust me. I said, I walk out now to the line. So I wandered out to the line

with the producer and with Mike Costello and we stopped. First of all, we stopped four lads. They obviously could have a story. They'd met him and they'd been in a pub. Then there was a couple of couples and they weren't from Manchester

and they'd seen him in Tenerife. And everyone we stopped had a direct Ricky Hatton story. Every single one of them. And the last two days it's been that way. I have been tapped on the shoulder and told about a Ricky Hatton story. I've been in Manchester. I've been around Manchester.

And I was in Belfast when I found out. And the cab driver, the first thing he said when I got in the cab, going to the airport yesterday was terrible news bunsy. This is 10 past one. We only found out about 20 past 12, Jappers. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over.

over one billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and Conditions apply. Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe.

With the Wise account you can send, spend and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups and no hidden fees. Whether you're sending pounds across the pond, spending royals in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds. Join 15 million customers internationally. Be smart, get Wise.

Download the Wise app today or visit Wise. T's and C's Apply. Agents who are Realtors do more than open doors. They have the ethical expertise, market data and tools to bring you home. So when looking for a home, look for the R and work with a member of the National Association of Realtors. They're right by you. You talk about everybody having a story, a Ricky Hatton story. The other thing, Ant, which again, somebody said to me today, it's been a lovely day for talking about Ricky and also a very sad day talking about Ricky.

somebody said to me, everything that Ricky did was pre-social media when he was fighting. So everything he did, the photo that he may have had or the drink that he may have had or the action that he may have done without anybody knowing was because he was genuine and authentic. It wasn't for a like. It wasn't to publicise something. It wasn't because that was happening in his private world. It wasn't there to be perused by everybody on Instagram or Twitter or whatever. And because that was Ricky because it was authentic. It was authentic with him.

He was just a lad off the estate. He was, you know, he's same mates from being young. And I think, like you said this, you know, the rich and famous would be there to come and see him in the changing room. But I'd be with his mates. He'd be with the lads like from the local and stuff like. That was always him. I think that's what everyone just loved about him.

That's what everyone loved about him. And I think, you know, with Ricky, like, like, I think he probably could have gone anywhere in the world. He's what I go in Tenerife in the Dublin or something like that. And that was him. You know, he wasn't interested in that. And I think you've got a respect and love that, you know, about him. You know, being with his family in those places.

And I think that's why he had the support he did. And Crawler, Stacey Cope and Steve Bunce with us on Five Live. as we remember, the great Ricky Hatton, Frank Warren, joins us, now managed and promoted Ricky throughout most of his rise, including Costa Zoo in 2005. Frank, thank you very much for giving us your time this evening. Are you okay? All good, Mark, yourself?

Yeah, very good, very good. Thank you. I mean, on the one hand, the memories are lovely, and then there's a real sadness to it as well. Yes, you know, I mean, it's a big shock yesterday. And there is a great sadness to it because it was such a well-loved sportsman, not just a boxer, sportsman, celebrity, what you want to call it, man of the people. And it's so sad and tragic that, you know, his life ended this way.

And, you know, the, when you think all the hires that he had in his career, some fabulous, fabulous hires. And you think the pleasure he gave to people in the boxing room, the time he's had for people. And, you know, his life to end at such a young age is pretty, it's just dreadful. And we all, all of us in boxing and everybody's has been associated. I'm sure we all send our condolences to his family

and our thoughts are with them in this terrible, terrible tragic time for them. They are. What was he like to promote, Frank? It was easy. I mean, you know, it didn't start, it didn't start off that we sold 30,000 tickets. I mean, you know, he was an 18-year-old young lad, and Billy Graham brought him along to me. Obviously, we knew about him, we spoke about him. He came along with his dad. I met him in Manchester. I had a show on in Manchester. Signed up with me. I managed him to start with as well as promoting him.

And he, you know, he was just, it tick the boxes for me. I knew that he could fight a bit, and I just felt that he does what he can do in the ring and everybody works that uses their respective skills, his trainer,

and me as a matchmaker and promoter, we can bring him through. And I think his first fighter witness, he said himself, I think he sold three or four tickets. And that culminated when he won the world title, when he fought Costa Zoo, when he fought for what we consider it would be a real world title. He won the WBU title to start with, and we used that as a marketing tool to build his profile. But when he thought Costa Zoo, who was at that time pound for pound best fighter in the world,

and we could have fought in the year before, and Showtime, who were his TV company, they were desperate to make the match with Ricky because they was looking, we got some of Ricky's fights on showtime through my sort of friendship and deal that I'd done with Jay Lark and he was the bus there. And we took Ricky, I think,

to one of the times, we took him to the States and I think Erie Fossey did his corner because Billy Graham couldn't go. And they obviously thought their man was going to win, as did the majority of the media. I don't think anybody tipped him but I really did fancy the fight

I thought it was the perfect moment for it and that's how it worked out in the ring he was superb and Johnny Lewis who was the trainer of Costa Zoo pulled his man out in the 11th round it was really good good corner work he'd done a brilliant job and Ricky then became champion

I remember the line on the floor in the ring he was just collapsed and you know he was so happy and as everybody else was it went fight went live back to the stage It's a superb performance. And 3 o'clock in the morning, he was champion. And it was brilliant.

And, you know, for me, starting off of, as I've done with many young guys, you know, I love that journey. And the journey was just, it was just superb. And it culminated in him doing that. And he said, you know, we didn't speak after that for a while because there was a little bit of a fallout between me and his father. And I'm not going to go into all that, but, you know, him and his dad fell out afterwards,

and I think a lot of that's been well documented, the reason wise and so forth. And Rick and I hooked up quite a few years later, having never had a crossword between us and had quite a lengthy discussion. I had a podcast going as well at the time he came on it, and he was talking about his mental issues and so forth. And, you know, what a shame it was, you know, what had happened.

and, you know, it was just like going back to the old times. He was such a, you know, he was such a guy, you know, wore his heart and his sleeve. Did he have, sorry, I was going to say, friend, did he, for you through that period, did he have a following like no other? I was mentioning earlier before you came on, somebody described into me today as sort of being the first non-terrestrial TV boxer, but who still had a terrestrial, TV following. Yeah, he did.

I mean, when we went to Sky, when I did the deal with Sam Chisholm at Sky, I left ITV, and everybody said we were crazy, but we did a really good deal with Sky. But Sky only had three and a half million subscribers then. It wasn't a juggernaut it turned out to be.

And it was a bit of a risk, but we did build a fighter on Skyer. And he was, you know, we showed it could happen. You know, they've done a brilliant job. We did a brilliant job as promoters. You know, as I say, when he came, he was 18 years old.

You know, people in the trade, but the general public didn't. But it just built and built and built. And between us, so it turned into a massive juggernaut. I mean, he took, was it nearly 30,000 people out when he thought, flying Mayweather to Vegas. It's phenomenal. Frank, Steve Bunce here, Frank, remember when we started that whole run at the MEN, with the end up being 12 fights with the Costa Zoo.

Do you remember early on him selling more tickets than you expected him to sell? No, it didn't actually work out like that. When we started off, we never sold it out. We never sold it out to start it off. You know, we just did what you've got to do. We went out and promoted it. It's a big venue.

And we wanted, you know, there were other fight he fought on undercards. And we wanted to make that, wanted to make it, you know, have that big feel and a big show. about it. It was a new arena and that's what we did. We got out there and we got behind it and promoted the life out of it and people bought into it. And obviously, you know, we, we, I'll be honest, we made out those more people sometimes that are in there than there were, but it got to the stage that when he won't fault for the world title, it was a sellout. And that's what it was about. It was about, that's what promotion is. It's, you know, getting out there banging the drum,

making the right matches. And fibbing. A fibbing. Yeah, it's called hype. Yeah, it's good. You're lucky. All you fighters are lucky that somebody's there to do it for you. How would you, look, you're a historian of the sport as well, Frank.

How would you sum up what he did for British boxing finally? I thought for British boxing he'd done, it was phenomenal. You know, this guy, I mean, we were really working hard to get Manchester on the, Manchola wasn't a great fight town for big shows, but to get it on the map, and, you know, he was quite instrumental in that happening. And Manchester at one stage, we come to capital of British boxing. We did lots and lots of big shows there.

And he crossed over in a big way to the general public. People got, they got behind him. He'd become a serious man of the people, you know, a really nice guy. for him although he earned a lot of money out of the two fights against Floyd Mayweather

and Manny Packow it was such a shame that those two were around because they would be in great fighters in any generation had those two guys hadn't been around he'd have been well champion for a long time and he had his problems outside the ring

and I think that's what resonated with people people knew that sometimes being a man and a people means you're out with your mates He had after fights what he called his bad shirt celebration. They all went to above. And, you know, he went on the lash for a few days. And that, you know, become a little bit of a regular occurrence.

And it was, you know, if you're an athlete, it's not really what you should be doing. And he had a few problems there. And obviously there was the big fallout down the road with his dad. And I think that really, really did affect him badly. Well, no, it did because he told me. And that, unfortunately, you know, I think, I just don't think he got quite recovered from that, to be honest. I think it affected him in a lot of ways.

And it was very sad. Frank, thank you very much for your time this evening. Frank Warren with us on Five Live Sport. Well, you know, sorry, Chapas, you know he mentions there that sometimes you fift about the figures. Those were the low figures. Ricky actually said, if you remember rightly, he said there was 22,000 people watching me at Big Costa Zoo.

I'm going to hold my hands up that I invented that 22,000 figure. That was an invention that I put in the daily telegraph at the time when I was working for them. Because the capacity there is under 20,000 and I carried it over into my books, and I've carried it over forever. But I'm going to come clean now. I invented 22,000 people at the MEN. There's no such thing as 22,000 people at the M. And I think selling four tickets for witness early in your career is commendable anyway.

So do I. Bingo. So I'll take the slaps for that. I'll take it. And also, God knows how many people were actually in Vegas for Mayweather in particular. I mean, you know. You've got to think of the ones who maybe didn't make facts. Well, I know. I mean, you know, everybody claims we're on Spike Island for the Stone Roses.

And along with that, everybody claims were in Vegas to watch Ricky happen. Do you know what? It was the stories you heard about people to get there. Yeah. People got married whilst you there. Yeah, of course. We know a coach from the same side who got married whilst he was there. And some people didn't get married because they went there.

He's a divorce. It's a double-sided short. It also tore some relationships apart you too. Absolutely. I bet if you ask the person who went on that relationship, I bet they don't regret it. Yeah. My granddad was one of him. He didn't regret.

What does he say about him? Well, he's no longer with us. What did he say about it? One of the funniest things I remember with him was when we went to Better Bodies to watch him train one. Bank Holiday Monday. I'm watching Ricky train was great, you know, like as anyone who's got a remote interest in boxing or not, but if you did have an interesting boxing, obviously, it was like being

live on a rocky montage, do you know what I mean? Like, it'd be, you know, doing the bar jumps that Billy used to get him doing, and then it'd be like whacking that body belt and, like, leather in Billy Graham. And it was great to see, and I just remember him coming back to the corner, and my granddad didn't have the best hearing and was just pouring water up. He said, you know, to cool him down. He was going, right, that's great. enough, Roy, that's enough, right?

There's like, Roy, you're drowning me. And that's one thing that I do want to mention, I don't think we've mentioned yet, is Ricky's sense of humour. You know, like we've mentioned, the Fatten suit, when they were calling him, or Ricky Fatten, and he kind of took that and said, okay then. And that's that fatten suit is on display in the gym, along with many other bits of memorabilia.

But, you know, doing the karaoke. Obviously, that video of him, people remember when he was getting ready for dancing on ice, which we won't mention, because it wasn't one of his finest moments or talents. But roller skating up and down our local pub, which is like where we all live in. Driving around in a three-wheeler,

I went on a journey from Ireland. It's just staggering and stuff, yeah. And also, if you ever went to his after-dinner, it wasn't really his after-dinner, it was a stand-up routine. You know, he didn't take questions. He did a whole 30, 40-minute routine, and it was hilarious. And it never changed, like all good comics.

It was just the same routine. And he never missed that. He never ever missed a single beat. And one of the things that you notice when you went to, those events afterwards chappers everyone would come up for a picture and of course whether it's 300 people in a working men's club or 11 or 1200 in a nice theatre they'd all queue up for a picture and an autograph and he would spend that time maybe two hours now i was privileged to be quite close to him sometimes and i'd hear them and for every person

that said oh rickie i was inside the the mien when you beat him and i was an olden when you beat tommy peacock and oh i traveled out to las vegas every other person thanked him for what he did to raise awareness of the mental health stuff and confronting his addictions. It wasn't one in 50 or one in 10. It was every other person. 50% split were thanking him for what he did outside the ring

and the other 50% for thanking for what he did in the ring. And I know, I'll say this as well. He used to go to loads of the Manchester Xbox's events when my dad was the chairman or whatever that. Every time he asked for it, and you're really good for that as well, Ann. But every single time my dad had asked him to go,

he'd go down and he'd support all the old Xboxes. He'd come to all the local amateur shows and give trophies out. And I got a trophy off him once because he came to our local show, a little Romley forum, and he will have been at loads of yours. He was.

He was great with grassroots boxes as well. And he'd always give the young kids that time, you know, if he asked him questions and stuff. And listen, I think, like you say, everything had done as well as a boxer ball. He's also a great coach. You know, when you look, he had world champion.

He had champions at all levels. and as State Snows he had a bright young stable along with Blaine who would do his part and more and it's it's kind of so many people are going to miss him They are. Can I go back to the Mayweather fight

And I Bizarly that night Amir Khan fought that night as well at the Reebok stadium in bowl I boxed on the undercar Did you? I was there that so I watched Amir so I was at the Reebok that night That's not what you meant to say did you

How was that? Did he be rude? Yeah. So he was the mate. Of course, he bought a scream real. And all the cards was bothered about was getting home for Ricky. That was all who was bothered about. But everybody, a lot of people stayed in, you know, one of the suites or the function rooms or whatever to them watch Ricky fight Mayweather.

And even though Ricky lost, there was obviously a sense of pride and I don't mean celebration. but just, well, pride, basically. But that defeat hit him hard, didn't it? Yeah, massively, yeah. He felt he let down people like us watching him. He thought people were laughing at him. And that's crazy to think like an all-time great, like one of the best ever, Ricky pushed him,

and it's so sad to think that he let us down when he'd made us the proudness. We were dead proud that he'd dared to dream. Yeah. Because you should never judge somebody or criticize. It's like that poem, isn't it, the man in the arena? He was the man. in the arena covered in blood and sweat and, you know, he was that.

So really, if anyone is going to laugh from the outside, it doesn't matter because you're not in the arena, but he was, I watched that in America. Back then I was playing football in America at that time, so I watched it as the only English person and the only mank screaming head off of Ricciat. But even at the end, all of the Americans were like, man, you know, your guy was nails the day,

and he's so brave and he's so aggressive. And, yeah, hugely proud. He went toe to toe with Mayweather and Paki out. at their peaks. At their absolute peaks in their backyard with maybe 50,000 over the two trips there

but not just that taking over Vakes, controlling Vegas you know, closing down bars because they were dry that's not, that's not rubbish,

that's fact, that's established, documented fact, bars being drunk, dry and Chappas, I think I've told us before every time you came down in the lift

to do a hit at two in the morning or at seven in the morning or four in the afternoon all you heard was that same thing. There's only one Rikihatton

or living in a Hatton Wondon and it's all you ever heard. When the lift doors opened, you heard it, when they closed, it went, when you came back five hours later, it was there. And those two particular fights, I think it was more than daring to dream, because Ricky believed in both fights he could win.

So as much as he felt he let the fans down, and he really did, he sobbed his heart out, especially after the Mayweather fight. He was sobbing and sobbing and sobbing in the dress room because he felt he'd let everyone down. But he was so confident he would win, not overconfident, but he really believed he could win. He wasn't in a point I'm trying to make.

is he wasn't in Las Vegas to make up the numbers against Pacao. Or take a payday. Or to take a payday against either of those two fighters. He was there to not, obviously not let anyone down and not let his city down, not let his family down. But more than that, he truly believed he could win. Not, I'll give him my best shot. You'll have to carry me out on a shield.

No, he thought he could win. And maybe that's one of the things we overlook sometimes with Ricky, because we think about the addiction, we think about the sellouts, we think about the money, and we think about all of the demons he had. he had to face in the darkest of places he went to. But perhaps we forget, we've touched on it a little bit, and did, we forget just how good a fighter he was.

And part of that was his confidence. Did he ever enter a fight when he didn't think he could win? No, and I think that's why it's brilliant when he was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame, because I know that meant so, so much to him, and he was obviously talking to us about it in the gym, because obviously, sorry, most days, because we're in the gym. And I know that was incredibly important to him to be recognised

for being, you know, well, he's a Hall of Famer forever, isn't he? And that was dead special for him. So, thank goodness that happened and he was, you know, here for it. But also what that shows as well is that he wasn't going to shirk anything. And that may sound daft, but we have been through eras where big fights don't happen because, I mean, there are usually several. Going through him now, I'm here. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

No, he didn't. He didn't. I think that says a lot. I mean, you don't become world champion by being a bad fighter, but he pit the toughest possible route in Costa Zoo. And let's not forget at that time, he was right up there in the pound-for-pound list, Costa Zoo, wasn't he? It was a massive underdog.

Nine defences, seven knockouts going into the fight. Yeah. Maybe arguably number one or two pound for pound at that time. He only became an old man once Ricky had stopped him. And you know, Frank Warren mentioned the line earlier on. that Johnny Lewis in the corner pulled Costa Zoo out. I know this is the Ricky Hatton show, but I've got the Johnny Lewis quote.

So he sits down at the end of the 11th round. It's unbelievable. Ricky knows he's not got a lot left because at the end of the 11th round, Ricky punches the air. At the same time as Russell Crowe's hitting his chest at ringside, Ricky's punct in the air in the ring. And Johnny Lewis said to Costa Zoo,

he said, you've not got a knockout in you, and you need a knockout, I'm pulling you out. He said that to him in a call. He gave us the quote, afterwards and then he pulled him out. And Ricky was tired though. And I remember Ricky looking, just peering around

peering around Billy Graham's bum to see. And then Billy Graham turning around, seeing what happened. And that was when it just became ridiculous. You know what's really been testament to it as well is that it's one thing having loads of fans support you, but the best boxers, legendary, iconic boxers over the last 24 hours of paid tribute to him, including Roberto Duran, Packer, all of them.

And yeah, they've talked about. about what a great boxer was, but also about the man that he was, whether some who've shared the ring with him. So they will know they've been the ones who've looked in his eyes and that's a different thing when you've looked in somebody's eyes

across the ring from him and you see something different in somebody's soul. And they will know he was a true warrior and they've paid respect to him but also the man that he was and I think the people who've shared the ring with him or know what it's actually like to be in there

for them to pay tribute to him says a lot as well. That's been lovely to see. And many of them came to. his gym. You know, we got really lucky at our gym. We had Joe Frazier visit. All of them. Usick came to use the gym when he was getting rid of a belly, and we got to see that all that's down to him.

All that, and this is what the staff have talked about in their tributes is that, my goodness, the opportunities we've had because of Rick. And today, he asked me before and I got a bit choked, but going into the gym today was very different. It's full of his memorabilia. But also, I was there on the very first day when he opened that gym,

and the whole of Hyde came. Like, they weren't just boxing fans. It was the whole of our community came because they were like, oh, it's the Ricky Hatton gym. And everybody came. The place was absolutely packed. And obviously it takes you back to that and you just think, wow, do you know, but that legacy is still there. And the amount of people that have come through that gym who love Rick, you know, that's a community side of it.

And they'll keep on filing through. I mean, you know, if there's a book of remembrance, I'd stick it in the gym. Well, see, today the people who were coming while I was stood there. Was sticking staff outside? Might have been there, you know, an hour chatting to the staff, just, you know, seeing how everyone was. there were people who came to that door with cards with flowers in floods of tears

like grown men as well like choked and because of what he meant to them I tell what would be really interesting is putting in getting Noel and Liam on okay because obviously Ricky had a massive relationship with a pair of them and once after a fight might be difficult with four minutes to go ahead and maybe not laugh

you never know because you know sometimes I'm asked wouldn't you like to have been at this fight I would have been at loads of great fights in history but if there's something attached to boxing I'd like to have been at, I think it was after the Urango fight or the Castillo fight, again in 2007. No, Malinga. Sorry, Melanagi.

After Malanagi, the Oasis were playing somewhere in America, and Ricky decides he does an iny-meaning moor, go back to Manchester, or go on the Oasis jet to South America and get on the stage in front of 120,000 people in Brazil, and he opted for the Brazil state. Now, that's a set of stories I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about, Chapman. Roberto Girand, let me read the Roberto Girand tribute. My dear Ricky Hatton, it pains me deeply to learn of your passing.

You were always a gentleman and a great person. I enjoyed all your fights, and I remember as if it were yesterday, the day I welcomed you at the Panama Airport and took you everywhere. I will remember those moments, your friendship and the honour of having called you a friend. To your beloved family, I send my deepest condolences. I share their grief because Ricky was more than a great champion. He was a true brother. May God have you in his glory forever.

my champion, Hands of Stone. And that's Rick's Hero. Yeah, I was going to say that's Rick's Ultimate Hero. That story about Paris. He couldn't believe, like, Roberto Durant had picked him up from the airport. He was waiting from there. He was his ultimate hero. Serial.

Still couldn't get over it, yeah. And I read one article today, Rick Broadbent, I think, in the Times, who said, who said Steve, along with Cooper and Bruno, they're the three most loved British boxers. Yeah, well, I saw, I didn't see Cooper fight, but I was around Cooper when he was doing some of his superstar stuff later on, and I saw most of Bruno's fights. And I am biased, but I would put Ricky slightly above them for the simple reason he was a better fighter than the other two. They were great, they were great characters and they were great icons, blah, blah, we know all of that. But Ricky was a better fighter. And I think it was a different type of love. I mean, but, you know, when Cooper was around Chappas, it was a BBC thing and it was all about It was all about Henry. When Bruno was around, it was a BBC thing, and it was all about Big Frank.

With Ricky, it was just about Ricky the fighter, Ricky the person, and no one really cared where he was on, what channel he was on. They just cared about Ricky, and they wanted to go out and see him. I'd have Ricky as the most popular British fighter ever. Listen, I think every young,

I don't want to say, Mank Fighter, I'm going to say British fighter. Yeah, absolutely. Like, they dreamed of being Ricky Aton and he paved the way for so many fighters. he really did and is someone who's had one of the very biggest influences

in a positive way on British boxing in the history without a shadow of doubt it's just a people's champion yeah yeah I do absolutely you know what I often say this with there are just certain sports men and women

who go above and beyond and they get that mean you know if the relatable ones they're relatable yeah yeah and if you know you see some of yourself in them. And Jamie Moore wrote one of the best tributes and there was one

line he said where you did it like no other, but you were a normal guy, one of us, who did extraordinary things and that's just right. From Councillor State, growing up in a pub, taking 70,000 people to Las Vegas, that's not a bad

epitaph, is it? No, there's only one Ricky Hatton. The Women's Football Weekly has found a new home in its very own feed. We've called it, unsurprisingly, BBC Women's Football Weekly. We'll continue to bring you the latest news, insights and analysis from across

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