5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Shutouts, Knockouts and Breakouts

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Did BBC TV’s return to boxing live up to the hype? Former British middleweight champion Neville Brown joins Buncey to reflect on a dramatic night in Derby, where Jeamie TKV upset Frazer Clarke and Fran Hennessy won every round against Fabiana Bytyqi. We hear from both fighters, plus promoter Ben Shalom.

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turn-on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by pocket hose. I'm a mom and a homeowner, so I feel like I'm always outside using a hose for something. And I used to go through a new hose every year because of kings and tangles.

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you'll get a free 360-degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash podcast. This is Five Live Boxing. It was boxing's return to BBC TV. It was the British heavyweight title.

It was won by Jamie TKV on a spit decision after 12 unbelievable rounds against Fraser Clark, and it was in Derby. Those are the stats, those are the facts. They do not even tell part of the story. That's why I'm here. I'm Steve Bunn's, and this is Five Live Boxing. Now, when you have a fight like that,

you've got to go and find special people to talk it over with. It's no good going to someone, and they want to analyse it slowly and not get involved. Now, you've got to find someone that's been sucked in. Well, if you're going to find someone that's been sucked in, Why not find someone from, I don't know, one of the boxer's hometowns? And in this case, another boxer from Burton, Fraser Clark's from Burton, and the last British champion from Burton, a man who fought for the world title,

and a guy who I covered as an amateur and as a prod. It was always a delight, was working for Radio Derby. So I managed to grab him from Radio Derby, come upstairs, and we recorded the best pod you've ever heard in your life. But we're not sure who to blame. but someone did not push the button. So we're going to do it all again, and we're going to make it even better.

The man I'm talking about is, of course, Neville Brown. Neville, you thought I was joking when I said, we've got to record it again. We've got to record it again. Let's forget, let's forget the jokes. Let's get straight to what we saw in that ring tonight. 36 minutes of non-stop action, whether it was grappling, whether it was punches,

two men with very little left at the end. I was in the ring doing the interview at the end. You saw me. They could barely stand up and everyone. By the way, welcome to the pod. Whoa. Bunsey, I'm saying to you now. Wow.

Yeah, tonight. Tonight, what was crazy. I saw a lot of stuff tonight that I wasn't expecting it to see. I thought I see a clinical execution of boxing from Fraser Clark. Yeah. And that's going to be my next question. Why did Frey? I don't want to take anything away from Dami TKV.

He's won a split decision. Okay, one judge went for him, one one-five, one-one-two. One-judge went for him, one-15, one-one-f. 113 and one judge went for big phrase 115-1-1-2. In the third round, TKV lost a point for hitting low and hitting recklessly after the bill, just basically for a group of illegalities. So we don't want to take anything from Jamie TKV,

but phrase, it's a bit strongness, but did he play into Jamie TKV's hands? Hell yeah. Thank you. I'm saying to myself, why are you, this athletic disability you have, to jab stick and move, stay outside. Jacob, Jamie's got no real fast footwork.

He can't come after you. He's slow. It's the hair and the tortoise. Why are you, that's my thinking. Why are you getting involved? Why get involved? So when the first three round, three minutes, I thought, is he trying to stop this guy?

Where's this bad boy attitude coming from? When he's got this finesse, this art of boxing to take this guy apart. So I felt that from that point onwards, phrase your box the wrong fight. But Jamie's very good. I'll counter that argument with a bit of devil's advocacy. Jamie's very good at making your box

his fight. He throws a shot a shot, he holds you, he pulls back a fraction of an inch and throws a left hook. He makes you, he ends up turning you into the opponent he wants. Clearly, and that's what we saw today.

Yeah. But widened in this corner, then pull him aside and say, right, when you get on them ropes, if you're going to go inside there, turn your shoulder, So you're capitalised on that. He didn't, he just stood there square leaning forward.

And I was like, I'm tortured because I truly believed that Fraser was winning the British title today and bringing the belt back to Burton. Yeah. That was my thinking. A lot of people did. But not Barry Smith and not Jamie TKV. All week long, they had been super common. They thought they might get a stoppage.

But they were super confident. I still thought it was a close fight tonight. Oh, yeah. You know, I thought Jamie TKV got it. Don't get me wrong. You had a massive 11th round and the argument that 11th round is that maybe it should have been stopped.

Don't get me wrong. But it was still a really close fight. It wasn't a walkover. What I'd be right in saying is I don't think any of the fighters were hurt. I just thought they were fatigued. They were this attritional. They took it out of themselves, yeah.

Frey said you see in the end. Frey's barely could stand. TKV couldn't stand much, but that's better. Well, I saw that, but is it just me? or did I feel that Fraser was tiring a lot earlier? It reminded me of the fight with... Fabio Wardley. Fabio Wardley, the first fight.

First four rounds, too sharp, too quick movement. The boxing brain took over. And then in this one, I didn't see any of that. I just saw impounding on a punch bag that doesn't hit back. But this punch bag did. It did hit back. And it hit back smart. Very smart with the left hook.

The right hook. was like a big swinging shot. We all can see it. Fraz didn't. Because he does a thing, he does a thing, JKV, where he doesn't need a lot of space to throw a shot. Now, guys like you could do it, because you know, you're down at middle and super middle,

and you can do that sort of stuff. But for a big heavyweight to just move a couple of inches and find the movement, find the leverage for that short left hook. That's going some, Nev. Those were some good shots. That 11th round, I'm going to ask you about this. We'll hear from Jamie TKV in a moment

and also from the promoter Ben Chalong. But let me ask you this about Fraser Clark. At the end of the 11th, I think I know what your answer is going to be. At the end of the 11th, when he could barely walk, he'd been under a lot of pressure for about two minutes. He sat down in the corner. He almost needed assistance to get back to the corner and sit down. Could he or should he have been pulled out?

Not in this fight. I don't believe so. I don't believe, like I said before, I don't believe fighters were capable of hurting each other in this fight. I thought they were just fatigued. and look if you've got no legs under you you finished if you've got no legs and I felt that the legs were gone by round four for Fraser yeah it slowed down notably by round four

yeah and like like TKV he said Jamie said he thought it was he was going to finish me in the first round yeah and he's he's been saying it all week as well TKP they're saying to three round fights so they've known there's a fatigue issue here why with it I know I know this. Fraser Clark has more to give.

He has more. He can move through 12 rounds efficiently. But today, we didn't see that. No. And that was what worries me. Does he believe? Did he not fear this fighter? No.

Could that have made him not go to the well in the gym enough? I don't think he did fear him. In fact, you and I, before we went on air, before we started recording this, we spoke to Paul Speak, Former Ricky Hatton's former manager, a business manager, and also close friend. In fact, the man who found Ricky that morning, that terrible morning back in September, which is something, it was Speaky that found him, yeah.

And as Speaky said to me, 24 hours after he found him, Bunsey, don't ask me how I found him. And I didn't, and I respect Speaky. And obviously, love and adore Ricky. But as Speaky said, he admitted to Speaky Fraser Clark that he got his tactics wrong. So what you're saying is absolutely true. He just got it wrong. He did. Sometimes I wonder,

is he the power puncher that comes across to be? Because I think he's more of a natural boxer. And then the power might come. Yes. You don't chase the power, the power comes next to it. Exactly. When you train for speed

and touch shots, power shots, you've got four, five, six, eight, ten rounds of this. And you generate power. You generate timing. You don't go out looking, bang, first round. But when you go looking,

you're trying harder. I might be wrong in this. I mean, I don't know the trainers to the, that. I don't know what they're doing. But I feel, I don't want to take nothing

away from Jamie today. I love both fighters. I love any fighter to get to the ring. I don't want to sound out with sight, but Fraser was my boy. And I, you know that. And I thought in the talk

coming in, I think, like I say, he got Jamie, Fraser got under Jamie's skin a little bit. Yeah. And I thought, that's interesting. He's won round one. But was he playing that? Because he came into the ring with an energy that he thought

is going to walk through TK in the first round. Let me ask you another thing. You fought obviously in Burton, but you also fought in Swadling Co. An unbelievable fight against Sean and Governor Cummins, whose life story is worth a pod all on its own if you don't mind me saying so. But were you put under more pressure,

were you put under more pressure, were you put under more pressure, having to fight at home with that level of his expectation and loads of different people, your friends at ringside. So you weren't the foreigner at a stranger. you know, you or the underdog, you know,

or the challenge, or the Brit, you were, you were Neville Brown. It's a good question. And I will say this to people, when I box away, I feel less pressure. Yeah. When I box in my hometown, I say it's jokingly. Everybody comes to see it. Everybody you know.

You can't avoid nobody. Even the ex-partner comes. Boy, that's the killer line. You use it once, you use it twice. You never stop using it. 73 ringside seats he had that night. I just think to myself, as they're watching, you've got to switch off.

So I would say, I don't believe that it was definitely is pressure. Yeah. But I think more to the point, I think more to the point, he's boxed worldwide. He's boxed in Russia. Just one second, just one second there. We've got Mick Hennessy's coming. We're not talking about Francesca.

We're still talking about, we're still talking about, we're still talking about, we're still talking. Amazing. We're still talking about the heavyweights, but we'll do a few seconds. How was it tonight? She didn't put her foot wrong. She won every single round

against the seasoned, hardened woman who's a former world champion, who, by the way, was bigger on the night. So I forget all the Atom's stuff. She was bigger. Yeah, yeah, sensational performance. We knew she was bigger. She's taller, she's bigger.

If you watch her the last two years, she's been at the heavier weight. She's performed better at the heavier weights because she weren't so weight-drained. So in her last performance, she fought a really good, fight as Seren setting, a bigger fight in Frank. Yeah, a big Turkish woman. Yeah, who's

a size, she's a lump. WBA gold, she fought her for. Gave her a great fight. She weren't even in it tonight. And she come close to being stopped for the first time. Oh no, there know, there was a point there where maybe Frank could have put the foot down and maybe gone for stoppage. But I'm pleased

you didn't, because I still want to see her do ten rounds and a 21. We wanted that. We wanted your ten rounds just to, you know. So actually you've had a right, you've had a sting of a night. Your daughter's boxed on BBC in front of a few million people. She's danced the way to the ring. She's hardly taking a shot,

and she's won, and she's won, and she's won, forget that. Oh, what a good night, eh? Brilliant. Sinsational. Swindy round about Saturday. Well, Mickey, you... Huey Fury won knockout first round.

Did he look at her, in Holland? Oh, yeah, yeah, so. Great result. Mickey. Come on. Who was the World Class 5 doing her? To know what? Yeah, Nessie.

Absolutely. I know. What she did? She didn't put a fore... He's in charge of the fan club. He just said it. I could not believe watching this. I was like, what has she been doing?

I looked at this world-class fighter. That's no mug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she was made to look that way. She would make a lot. She couldn't do. Head movement, footwork, the evidence of bam. She shone it, please tell her.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Robinson, the whole of them would be proud to see that. That's great coming from you. I really appreciate that. Thank you. She was in Bethune. Give her my laugh. Yeah, I will do, Steve. I will do.

She'll appreciate that. We're doing a thing on BBC, too. earlier on. And I said, well, you know, I said, let's not mince our words. She was a chubby little girl. And they went, oh, I don't know if you can say that. I said, trust me, I can say it. You can say it.

That's part of the story, isn't it? You see her when she was living. That's part of the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that running, that clip of running around the track. I mean, that's all part of the story. And I tell you what, when she stripped off yesterday, down to the shorts and bra thing, I've never seen her that writ.

That's the maturity, that's the age. A body shape changing, changing everything. Yeah, completely. But it was poetry in motion. Yeah. That's what I was to know. Please tell her, poetry in motion. It can't put a foot wrong.

Pretty special, weren't it? Well, Mick, I'll let you get back to your family. You've got a long journey back. I'll see you that. You're going back to the hotel somewhere. We're going for the youngest undisputed as well. Oh, youngest undisputed. Mick Hennessy, we might even be able to get friend.

Oh, there's friend. We've got friend there. See yourself down. Sit down. Sorry, John. That was poetry in motion. That was awesome. That was your number one fan.

Fred Hennessy, Mick, Neville Brown. The top. I'm not fire. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Who's the ex-world champion here? Thank you. There was enough things you could do that you didn't have an answer for.

Yeah, do you know what? I'm just on my best form at the moment and I'm feeling great. I'm glad I showed. I can be in the pocket, make you miss, make you pay. You don't see many females doing that. And you did tonight. You did it tonight and you did it with style. You did it with comfort.

And I was talking to your dad just now saying, that could you have put your foot down? I don't care. The bottom line is you've got 10 twos against the... And she was big, wasn't she? All that atom rubbish. She was a big girl. And you had to work a little bit,

even though you won every single second of every round. You had to work to win the rounds. Yeah, yeah, definitely. She kept coming and coming and coming. There was one bit where I thought she was gone, but she's just a tough woman, so credit to her. Body shot. Yeah, body shot.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, it was... Yeah, it was the body shorts and stuff. In this fight, in my last few fights, I've come out a bit too far and people just see me as technical books, but I wanted to show that I can stick it on someone, make you miss up close and make you pay there and then.

But you've gone ten rounds, you've got a little mark maybe under the right, I'm maybe just a little under the left, but nothing serious at all. No, nothing. Little scoff, serious. And also, on the BBC tonight, there was that great film with your dad and you were the running track. Was it? Yeah, wow. I didn't even know that.

I said lovely, those are complimentary things, but. Listen, Fran, Fran, I'm going to let you. You've got your entire family. You made a standard now. You got a standard to keep up to now. That is just amazing. I'm looking at, I'm number one fan I'm watching you big time now. Neville Brown's running a Francesca Hennessy fan club.

Right, Fran, get out. Let me finish my work. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Friend, Henness is gone. Thanks very much. Bradley, thank you very much.

Thanks very much, team. Take care of here. She's real tired. Good rest now, good massage. So, Neville, going back to what we were talking about about two and a half hours ago when we were, I was trying to play you a clip of when I got up in the ring at the end and big phrase was was like near enough falling in, near enough to be over. And then Jamie came over with his close right eye.

I mean, this was an attritional fight tonight. I mean, if you missed it, just try and catch some clips, however you catch your clips. Here's Jamie with me in the ring at the end of the fight. What does it feel like to be, that that belt over your shoulder, be the champion? Feels amazing, man. Second time round, but it feels like my tired of defense. I defended against Fraser. That boy in his backyard.

Listen, was it how you expected it to be? Because it was just brutal, attritional, round after round, round after round. Of course. I mean, I knew he was going to hold. But he started blowing within the first 30 seconds. He thought he was doing three rounds. We're not in the Olympics anymore, bro. Jamie, did you feel that you'd won it?

You know, one judge had he by three. One judge had him by three. Did you feel it was that title? Did you feel you were a clear winner? Yeah, of course. I knew when I won the last three or two, when I hurt him in there, I knew, I knew it was my fight.

I even had a point taken off. I still got the win. Fraser's left the ring, and that's understandable. He's a bit heartbroken, is his home. What about if a rematch came up? I know it's early, you still want to celebrate, but it's my job to ask you that. Would that be a fight you'd be interested?

because the crowd here would come out for that again. Of course, yeah, yeah. We'll do it in London. We do it in London this time. In Totno. Maybe in Wembley. I heard there's a day soon, but maybe anytime, anywhere.

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Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. So that's Jamie there. You could hear the emotion. in his voice. You can hear a joy in his voice. You can hear the relief in his in his voice. That's a fight. Come on. Fight or flight response. You've got to give everything.

Yeah. And that's why there's no criticism from us. We can't critic. We didn't go into the ring today. No. That place was warm in there too. It was warm, yeah. And it was really warm in the ring. I was up in the ring at the end and trust me, it was really well. So I've got to try and move this on a little bit. What would you do now?

Ben Shalom's the promoter. He promotes Fraser. He was talking in the year. We're here from Benchalom in a moment. Would you like to see a rematch? Does a rematch make sense? Or does Jamie TKV have, you know, enough power to maybe say, you know what, great, I'm moving on? What would you like to see?

And including any potential opponents that might walk in to the Jamie TKV fight, Neville? Well, I'm going to say a rematch. Because I believe Fraser has his number. And I think Fraser needs to show himself, I've got his number. Take enough away from Jamie, because Jamie was in a terrific fight tonight.

He did everything right. Like you said, we might call him and say, you know, he's not too fast. But he pulled Fraser Clark into his fight. He's so much smarter. He pulled him into his fight. But I've always thought, where do these guys go? If it's a good match, it's a clean winning and they say, right, we're going to, I'm looking to use young Moses.

Moses. Because he gets a British title. He wants that British title. And he doesn't want to rush into the world title. So my thinking is that's the monster. These two boys have got to watch out for. And Jamie TKV gets an unbelievable payday. I hate to say it, we're in a business.

It's called price fighting, you guys are in. The money is the price. And the money's the price. And it will be unbelievable money. And it will be the British. Yeah. Heavyweight title. Heavyweight championship. Walking in some big footsteps there.

For real. For real. For real. And like I say, I believe that's the fight, a rematch. If it's on, both rest, like you said, both boys get a rest. Recover. And let's get a plan A. Yeah.

Or plan B or plan C together. Could I use my stat of the night, which I never got to use on BBC TV tonight because we're a bit tight for time. But I want to use it on you, I used it with young Sam who's in the room with us the other day. And it's a beauty of a stat. In the last 10 years, seven British heavyweight champions have fought for the world title. Four of the seven have won the world heavyweight title. Three have failed to do so. So the point I'm putting to you, if in a 10-year period seven men that have held that belt that JBTV had on in the race,

ring. This is a, you win the British heavyweight title, you step through the door, you're a fight away maybe from winning a child fighting for a version of the World Heavway title. What are you talking about, Steve?

We've already seen this. Yes, it's a Fabio Wardley. Fabio Wardley. Come on, we've just seen a white collar fighter Yeah. Turn boxing upside and now he's a world champion. You know, you know what, Nev,

it's one of those nights where I want to go home, but I don't want to go home. I haven't seen you. for a while since I saw you at Bar Sport a couple of years ago. But we are going to move on a little bit because we've had Francesca Hennessy in and of course she had a great win tonight over a former atom WBC world champion.

It's an odd way. It's very low. It's about one of my legs, I guess. Anyway, Fabiana V. T. T. Chi. That's about it. It's not bad. It's not an insult. Even though she's from Chechia and she lives in Albania. I hope we've got her name

near enough way. Francesca won every single round. clearly. We've heard from her, so, but I want to hear from Ben Shalom. I grabbed old of Ben at ringside at the end, and you can just tell from his voice, he's both exhausted and exhilarated. Do you know what? It was messy at times. It was good at times. It was ferocious at times. And then the last few rounds was just chaos. The 11th was, was memorable. Chaos. I mean, I have to say, Fraser looked in the first round like he was coming in like a train. He looked fit, he looked strong, but he looked like he wanted it over in three rounds. Jamie took his time and then came into the fight

and to be honest, every time he was working on the inside that's where he's one of the best heavy ways I've ever seen on the inside. So I couldn't understand at times why Fraser wasn't keeping his distance and he was almost playing into Jamie's hands. Credit to Fraser, who then came back into the fight won a couple of rounds.

Got a second win about around 8 or 9 or so. Yeah, 7, 8, 9 I felt like. And then Jamie came back again. I mean, it was topsy-turvy round back to front. I mean, it was a crazy, crazy 12 round fight. In all fairness, that's what. what you want from a British heavyweight title fight. You want the two men to have nothing left in there.

And I got in the ring before the decision was announced. I thought it was a really tight decision. I got in the ring and both of them were struggling to stand. They were that exhausted, Ben. To be honest, I thought Fraser was gone in the 11th. He was gone. Somehow managed to get through it. And then in the 12th, I'm seeing Jamie's legs wobbling.

I mean, yeah, they both took it out of each other. But I have to say, I think the way the fight went, it played into Jamie's hands. and he is superb on the inside. We saw he as David Adelae. Adelae couldn't win a round against Jamie TKV. And in the end, that's what he got. He nicked enough rounds to win the fight.

Yeah, and Wessel was certainly not a bad decision, and there was no shame in any of it. It was just that the difference was those TKV shorter shots. And as you said, I was a bit surprised phrase, didn't adjust and start reading them a bit better. Yeah, look, maybe it was a, you know, exhaustion comes into it. Maybe when the fight starts, close it's hard to get back out. Who knows? But yeah, I felt like Fraser was better using his

jab and he's got a wonderful jab and just boxing clever. But, you know, this is heavy way boxing. Now you got Fraser after the Olympics. You brought him up to this stage. You had the draw in the British style of fight, then the shock loss in a one punch, one round, which doesn't count in some ways and does count in other ways. And then this tonight, it's, I'll put it to you and I love Big Fraser. I've done him a long time. So hard road back for big phrase from that. Listen, it is, but at the same time, I look at the lights of Derek Chazora, I look at the likes of many heavyweights of yesterday year, where they do lose fights.

Absolutely. He's lost a split decision tonight, and probably will look back and think what was his game plan, if I'm totally honest, and that's what created such a memorable fight, I guess. But, yeah, he has to go back to the drawing board and has to come again, but he is a fan favorite. He does fill arenas. And we like this arena here?

And he likes a terror. Now, after a rest, that includes you and me, could we have a rematch? Is there not a clause and understanding? Maybe I saw you talking to Jamie in the ring at the end, whispering and he's here. Is there a possibility we could see it in a good six months time? Look, I think we'll sit down with both teams.

We'll see what the fans want. We'll see what both guys want. And, yeah, of course, it's a possibility when you have that close a fight. But let's see. I'm still getting over what we've just witnessed in those 12 rounds. So might be.

And by the, just quick word on Francesca Hennessy. 21-year-old woman, dancer way to the ring. Box is a seasoned veteran, wins every second of every round. Look, she is a phenomenon. She really is. She's probably the most talented, naturally professional female. And I say that because there aren't many professionals that haven't been through that amateur system of six, seven, eight years,

usually turning a pro around when they're 30 years old. 28, yeah. This is the complete opposite. This is a girl turning over 18, 19, boxing in the professional way because of her dad and her dad will not let her go near the amateur system and you can see it's different and she's bringing something different to women's boxing. And just briefly, Callum Simpson was here tonight, Troy Williams from here tonight, December the 20th back on BBC with another domestic potential fight of the year.

Yeah, listen, it will there, if tonight was good, December the 20th will be spectacular. Arena, December the 20th, Troy Williamson in the form of his life. Callum Simpson still not defeated, going back to his hometown. Troy will be coming to take his head off. It can't not be a great, great fight and a great night. I'm with you, Ben. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Ben Shalom. I like his sensible stance there. Let's see how they are. Let's see where they are in a couple of weeks, time, a couple of months time, before we start talking about rematches. There's a point I have to make, Nevin. I don't know if I ever asked you after a hard fight,

would you like a rematch? But I know I would have said to you after a hard fight, where do you want to go from here? And after a hard fight when you've got a victory, that's not really what you want to hear, but it's what my job is to ask you. So I had to ask Ben now. I had to ask TKV that in the ring.

I'd have no problem, no problem whatsoever with a rematch. And I'd have no problem with Fraser. A nice long rest. And I'm in a long rest, not two or three months. Well, you've got to remember. Frazier has sold this fight. He has put everything. He has put his family on hold.

Now, you know what that feels like. He's got some beautiful children and a beautiful wife. He has put them on hold. And I've heard him saying, this is hard. I have to run in, see my children, and run out. And he's hardly seen his young daughter. And that's my point.

And there was a tender point when I was with Sam on the stage on the first Friday after the way in. And there was a point, as I was talking, I think we had a TKV up with us, Sam, if I'm not mistaken, and suddenly off to the left, and I was, as we were talking, I was looking away because I want to look around a pillar. And there, he went over to his wife, and she had the push chair, and he took the little baby out, and it's a tiny little baby.

He put the little baby on his shoulder, and he wandered away on his own. Then he had a point where, if you can imagine, I'm standing now with both my hands in front of me, and I'm holding a little sort of six-week-old bundle, and I'm talking to it, And that's what he did. It was really a moving, really a moving time. It's hard being a father and a boxer at the same time. Well, this is it. It's undisputed, isn't it?

It's everything. We give everything. We give us all. We can't get that time back. No, that's true. We can't get, I didn't want children to work. Once I had my children, I realized it'd have been difficult for me at that at tender age.

Do you know what Steve Collins used to do? And I know this because I went to see him once in Jersey when he was training with Fred Reggie. In fact, it might have been for your fight to be perfect. don't see if you. It might have been because Steve Collins took every fight that he had like they were like they were trying to take away his living his life and his family's life.

Steve had to get his own. He's right. Yeah, no, no, no. But he took everything personally without taking anything personally because Steve was like, you know, cold man. But Steve told me, I went out to see him in Jersey in the days when newspapers flew out to do interviews. And I went with him and he was really, he was unshaven.

And he looked dirty. You know what I mean? But he looked like dirty. So afterwards, I said, they would do the interview after the show, so don't shower. So, okay, he said, I'll go back to the hotel. So we went back to the hotel,

went to his hotel, and it wasn't a great hotel. And we sat there, and he told me what he does. He said that he barely washes. He just eats like a pig. He just not bothered about being. This is the word that people don't see.

And the other thing is, you're like this. He said, at that time, I think he had two kids. He's got about five now, Steve. But at that time he had two young kids, and it was about, it was about 18 months into his well-titled title stuff. So he'd had to lost a couple of lost ones, and then he'd won it. And he said, after the first one,

or before the first fight with wherever it was, he said, I had a row with my wife because I was trying to tell her how tired I was and how hard it was. And she said, oh, is it really hard? Is it really hard being in training camp, having three meals a day, surrounded by men having a great life?

Is it really hard? Did you want to be here? One of the kids has got chicken, picking box, the other one's got croup, he's pouring down with rain, the gas is on the blink, all sorts of stuff like that. So he has a rule, he had a rule, Steve, that he never ever spoke to his wife and kids

when he was in training camp. Hell yeah. Never, not one word, not one single word. And you know Steve Collins, if he decides to do something, he's going to do it. It's the mindset. But like you say, it's the mindset. Why do people not see what fighters go through?

this is the truth of it I mean if you've got the money in the funds and getting the massages and the rub downs and the shower and the treatment and the hotels but if you ain't got that myself including my day I had to go on the dole to get ready for the British title because I didn't have sponsorship

I didn't have anything so I couldn't even afford it never it's hard to believe with it it's crazy I mean when I see the boxing today I think whoa my phone I never retired I'm sorry with my phone to ring.

Saudi, where are you? You still don't look about 34 as it is now. Listen, Neve, it's been an absolute pleasure and a delight talking to you tonight, both at ringside and up here in this room and in the room next door. That's Neville Brown. And if you've never seen Neville Brown fight,

why don't you just, whichever method you use to watch old fights? Go on up look at some of these old fights. Some of them were legendary, and some of them, I think you'll get the feeling what they were like. If you watch the fight with Sean Governor Cummins in swaddling coat. I think it was in swaddling coat.

Yeah. But if you watch that, you might have to watch it. You might have to watch it through your fingertips. So, Neville, thank you very much. Thanks to Ben Chalong for talking to me. Thanks for the cameo from both Mick Hennessy and Francesca Hennessy and, of course, from Jamie TKV in the ring. Now, not all British heavyweight title fights are like this.

Not all of them involve two men who just do not want to lose. give absolutely everything and I'm exactly and exactly exhausted at the end. Not all of them do it. They did tonight. It was a glorious return to TV for the BBC, in my opinion. And just a little bit of late news, just down the road from it, down the A38, jump off the A38, jump on the M6 toll, pay you 11 quid for your car, come out on the M-42, go a little bit along and turn into the NEC tonight.

It only lasted around. It might have even, I don't even know if it was 50 seconds or 42 seconds. Ben Whittaker making his matron debut had his win. We would have been there, but we were here. We were here because we were in Derby for a great and memorable British heavyweight championship fight. I've been Steve Bunce, and this has been Derby, and this has also been Five Live Boxing.

Welcome to Terlenders! I'm Greg James. He's Felix White. Hello. And that is England's greatest ever bowler, Jimmy Anderson. Hello. We finally got our break on BBC Highplay. It's lovely to be here. England haven't won a test match in Australia since the 2010-2011 series,

which is a long time ago. Give us a few reasons as to why it's so difficult. The wickets are different, the ball's different, and the heat as well. The media coverage over there is so much bigger than a test series in England, for example. And cricket over there is huge. Plus, Australia are amazing in their own country. Tail Enders. Watch on eye player.

Listen on BBC Sounds.