5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Simply the Best - A Chris Eubank special

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Buncey travels to Brighton to sit down with former two-weight world champion Chris Eubank. In an emotional chat, they discuss how he is dealing with the recent deaths of both his son Sebastian and brother Simon, why he is so against his son Chris fighting Conor Benn and how he is still dealing with the pain of what happened to Michael Watson following their fight in 1991.If you, or someone you know, have been affected by bereavement you can get more information via the BBC Action Line - www.bbc.co.uk/actionline/.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return. turn on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by pocket hose. I got to tell you, being a homeowner, there's so many things you have to think about all

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Before you start listening to the pod, I've got some big news for you. We have just announced Cardiff as the venue for our second live show of our current tour. With me on stage will be Welsh living and fighting legend Joe Kowazagi. And I couldn't go to wows without former world champion Barry Jones. He'd never forgive me. There will be other guests, don't worry about that. Jones and Kowzagi together again. Talking about their careers, their friendship and also the current boxing scene.

And you will get the chance to ask them questions, anything by the way. So, get to Cardiff on the 6th of December. You've got to be over 18. Then you can find out more and apply for up to two tickets. It's really simple. Go to BBC.com. Dot UK slash shows and tours. It's at the Glee Comedy Club, Cardiff.

We will be recording at 7.30. It will be popular. It's an intimate venue, by the way. That means there will be a random. draw to allocate tickets after we close applications on Wednesday the 22nd of November. Get to the Glee Cup, December 6, join me, Barry Jones, Joe Kowzaki, ask questions, enjoy it. It's free. In 1990, Chris Eubank won his first world title.

Over 17 million people watched him on ITV. He was boxing's number one attraction. In 1991, in a fight outdoors at Whiteheart Lane, he stopped Michael Watson in the last round. Watson collapsed, required surgery and was in hospital for a year. Eubank carries the pain, he still does. His son, Chris Jr, is one of the best middleweights in the world. And his massive showdown with Connor Ben is set to take place next year. His other son, Sebastian, also a boxer, died suddenly in 20.

2016. Six weeks ago, Eubank's brother Simon also died. Eubank has suffered. His grief has been open. His voice raw and emotional. I sat down with a man I have known for over 30 years to talk about life, death and boxing. I'm Steve Bunce and this is simply the best. A Chris Eubank, five live boxing special. Chris, thanks as ever for your time. We're in Brighton. I can see to see our there. I haven't sat with you for a while. Last time was in the gym up the road, underground at Hove. How are you? How have you been? I say I'm wonderful because I've learned now to accept everything as a blessing. The blessing can only be seen when you understand that one is

experiencing life. And even the things which are unbearable that give you great, grief, the fact that you can actually grieve is a wonder. You know, so you say, well, grieve, that's not a good thing. It's not a good thing, but I can do it. We all can do it. If you can't grieve, how sad is that that you've lost a loved one and you can't grieve? Something wrong with that. One of the things I was pointing out to an interview the other day, when someone's grieving, leave them to grieve.

It's the rite of passage. Absolutely it is. What you mustn't do and what the country must be stopped doing, or the country should stop calling ambulances when someone's crying over a loved one who has actually left this dimension. That is sick. That's ill. Grieving is good. And again, the worst thing is thinking about how you love someone.

and that you didn't grieve because someone put it into your head that oh well they may sedate me if I grieve are you with me? Chris my wife died last December after a bad couple of months and you're absolutely right

the grieving is something you need to embrace and you're absolutely right in my opinion about the as you say sometimes you can cry and grieve and people might misinterpret that and you end up as you say being an ambulance coming and the next thing you know. Yeah.

People are examining you and sticking you and sectioning you. That's right. So I absolutely 100% agree with that. Was it difficult, though, for you to come to terms with that grieving? Or did you embrace it instantly? You can't do anything but embrace it when your super conscious mind or your subconscious mind, along with your surface mind

understands the concept of wisdom. Once you understand wisdom, you look at it objectively because it's a very subjective reality. It's very subjective. I've lost

this person that actually I can't do without. Wisdom gives you the ability to look at it from all sides. So no in the future how important a loved one is. Make sure that you're always

on good terms with all persons. Desiderata, speak your truth clearly and quietly and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant, for they two have their story. And it goes on and on. So we are always being reminded remember what

peace there may be in silence. Remember that you are a human being experiencing life. Part of life is the death of loved ones and death of self. So what should we be doing? We should be looking inside of us and being gentle with ourselves. After all, we are children of the universe.

No one's tough. If I put you into the wrong temperature, you'll go crazy. We're very fragile beings. So we ought to be gentle with ourselves and look at ourselves as beings going through this wonderful experience of life. But it's hard that, I mean, let's stick with the grieving. And it wasn't my plan today to get straight to the couple of family deaths that you've suffered over the last two years. It wasn't my plan today. But it is so much harder than I thought it would be, me personally, to get to a comfort.

state of grieving. I got there in the end, Chris, don't get me wrong, but it took me a long time. It wasn't instant with me. Was it quicker with you to come to terms with your son's death? But you're talking about it in such a way like you can, you will, I will never stop grieving over my son. No, I agree with that. I will never stop grieving. It's a light grieve. But it's right. It's for life. It's for life. But it's being able to actually, translate that to the listener. Okay? You know, losing Sebastian is,

how can I get over the spirit of this young man? It was nothing less than incredible. You know, and it shows you that you can't see what you have until it's gone. So it gives you then wisdom. Appreciate those who you love. Never be on. like rocky terms with them because you never know.

You never know. So again, Deserata, be on good terms with all persons, especially your loved ones. You know, you never, imagine leaving the house, no, listen, listen, you know, you're wrong on that. Many people do. I know, but we have to, we have to be gentle with ourselves and remember that we are simply experiencing life.

And the best way to get through it is to be on good terms with all persons. Because at some point, they're not going to be here, and then you're going to beat yourself up for the things you didn't do. Was Sebastian's death in the summer of 2021, was that, did that make you realize this more, or were you already in touch with it? Did you already realize? Wisdom is something that... Appreciation was already part of your life.

Wisdom is something that's inside of you, okay? So, you know, the wisdom is the cure. The cure for crying that I can't even explain to you, how hard I cried. I can't explain that to you. You know, it was spectacular. I'm proud I cried as hard as I cried. Because that showed, if anyone would have seen that,

they would have said, no, this guy, boy, you cut out, you know, you love someone that much. Yes. You know, not everybody has that. I'm proud of that. Same here. But there's a spiritual realm of which I can't go into because it takes us into conversations that may not be readily understandable.

So I will say on Sebastian, he, it turns out that he was a teacher to me, something that never even came close but it never came close to me realizing it when he was alive. There's only in passing you realized. I realized he was steering me, okay, but too much to get into. So let's move on to my brother, Simon. Yeah, this was recently.

Yeah, Simon was a sweetheart, okay, an innocent. There's a lot in that word, innocent. He was an innocent. Okay, the system or the way in which the system works, and the people in the system took advantage of him, okay, on accounts which destroyed his mind. You're talking about his heart, his very hard boxing career? That's part of it.

Okay, so that's just part of the... That's part of it, okay? You know, there was someone who trespassed against him in such a way that would have... would have had him living in regret for what had been perpetrated against him. That's one.

The frontal lobe dementia is where a man has 27 fights. Seven wins, 20 losses, 11 knockouts. So this is why he was locked in his body for the last year and a half of his life, constantly in spasm. So you can imagine training 24-7 all the time you're awake. So I look at these people and I look at them and I talk to them because these are the people

who used and misused him. Now, I'm speaking objectively. I don't call names. You know, when a fighter is called in at three weeks notice, two weeks notice and paid 400 pounds to fight at the Royal Albert Hall or the your call to build another fighter. This is your brother Simon because he was very much a really good, quotes, journeyman and available at short notice and didn't fall over. He wasn't a guy that went in to survive,

he went in to win. That's right. Which is, in a modern terms, it's quite hard for people to understand because so many journeymen now go in to survive, get through that fight to another fight whereas my memory of the twin brothers was despite the forget the losing record they were both very good fighters and they were both massively overmatched and enormous heart and they and every fight they believed they could win I believe that's what I think and and so this is the reason for the frontal lobe dementia so and I'm saying to you like I watched my brother die in fact I couldn't watch. I couldn't watch

the end of his life. I didn't have the strength of character to watch the end of his life. When I see them match fights like a 147 against a 160, this is

running a mock. This is playing fantasy games. You're playing with the lives of these young man. But the young men are taking the fight because their money on the table. The young men are taking the fight because of their money on the table. The young men are taking the fight because they only can look at the money,

but they don't know the price they'll pay for it. Now they're trying to boil. My son now walks around at 12 stones 4. This is Chris Jr. He walks around at 12 stones 4. They want to boil him down to 160. He's no longer a 160 fighter. He's 34 years old, but they have this fantasy fight.

And apparently they hate each other now because this last fiasco didn't. happen. This is when Conabend was meant to fight your son and it was meant to be last October and Conabin had some irregularities with a drug test in. The fight is in theory being moved to some point in January or February. That's still the thinking. You're against the fight. That can't happen. And, you know, I would say two things. Firstly, the first one, I told my son and I actually had, I did interview saying that fight will not happen when it was announced. You did. And I didn't say anything up until the day before or the day of the fight when it was cancelled the day before.

And I told them how I did it. But even that they didn't hear. Because you don't remember how I did it, do you? Well, somebody had the information that Connor Bennett fouled a test and the information became public. So that's your version. Yeah, that's the version that I can put on the radio. I have a different version. Tell me your version, if you can.

It's not that I can't, but it doesn't make sense that I tell you my version. Specifically, because if I do, it's not something you can comprehend. Okay. So the way to put it is as follows. I spoke to the boss. Okay. And the fight was called off. Just as I had said three months.

when it shouldn't have been called on in your opinion. Of course not. I mean, who does this? Who does this where a man is 1447 and he brings him up to 157, to fight

someone at 157? Who does this when the fellow who's coming down to 157 walks around at 12thstones 4? 12thstones 3? Did you speak to Chris Jr about this though? Did I

Did you say to him, son, this is, this is, this makes no sense. It's not practical. It's not safe. It's not sensible. At this time, he had his own management team and he was no longer taking my advice. Okay. Okay. So he wanted to do it his own way.

But I had to protect him, which is why, again, I had to speak to the boss. Okay. So the fight was called off. Now, now people are now getting to understand that in, well, even put, aside manuals, 147 is not supposed to fight 160. That's why there are weight categories. So anyone flouting these rules are being reckless and their licenses should be withdrawn. Because these are the lives of fighters. You're talking to a man who fought Michael Watson. What the world didn't know about that fight is never been mentioned. So this is, you know,

First line news for you. When I thought Michael Watson, there were two weigh-ins. There was a public one for the media, and there was a private one. At 9 o'clock, 8.30 in the morning or 9 o'clock in the morning? That's right. Okay. So look at that. Look at what happened to Michael Watson.

What was his weight? I don't remember what his weight was. I remember what my weight was. Were you 157? 156? I came in at... I know, so, of course, this is supposed to be a 12-room...

The second one was meant to be at 168. At 168? So it was made at 164. Right. Okay. I came in at 11 stones 8 pounds. Wow. Okay.

I think the fight was made at 11 stones 10. Why was it made at that weight? Why was it made at that weight? And, you know, For anyone who investigates this, this is the question. Well, was it, was the fight made at one? 168 is the limit. Yes.

12 stone. 12 stones. I think the fight was made four pounds underneath that. Inside, yeah. That's a kind of, that's a story I know, but I can't prove. Okay. So if anyone's going to argue this, or if anyone wants to investigate this, find out what the weight was made at. I think it was 11 stones 10

Okay, I came in two pounds So 164 164 I came in I came in then at 162 That's it 62 Wow What I went through

The beating I took that night How I didn't come out How I came out of it I don't know I still don't know I only can give thanks To the divine providence if you will but Michael what weight did he come in at he I'm not sure what he weighed on the on the actual night

but he his weight was inside that that agreed limit which was I think it was 164 and that is the problem how can you have an agreed limit outside of what the public should know that is criminal but surely that was an advantage to one of you and I'm assuming it was an advantage to you because it was your promoter putting the fight on

That's what I would have thought. That's what I would have thought. Well, you can assume that. Only an assumption. Still, it's illegal. Still, you are flouting the rules of the British Boxing Board of Control. You say, well, Chris, you had a responsibility. I don't care about responsibilities.

I'm a warrior. I'll fight him. I'll fight him at whatever weight. That's the mindset we have. We don't go in to look at the stats. We don't do that. It's like, you know, whatever it is, you make it. That's the blase we have.

That's the cahooners, the testicular fortitude that we show. This is why the boxing board of control is in place to save us from our own machoism, to save us from ourselves and to protect us from those who would say, yeah, you go and you're not interested in that because, you know, you're the champion, you're the best. and you're interested in the money. We've got to be protected. The boxing board of control is there for a reason. Weights fight the same weight.

You don't disagree, but you now have to promote that. Because you are, Steve Bunce is, you are boxing. You may laugh. And it's not a compliment, it's an observation. You are submerged in this. Without your face being involved, If you're not there, it really doesn't matter. Your face has become the association with reporting on boxing.

Your face is the association. So, you know, like I was saying to Mr. Smith the other day, Mr. Smith, he said, call me Robert. I said, no. Actually, I didn't say no. I get it. but then I wrote him a letter. Because I see, you know,

he always seems to be in a hurry, as Mr. Smith. He always seems, do you get that? Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. He always seems to be in a hurry. He's always doing 10 things. Right. So I thought, you know what?

But I wrote him a letter. And I'm going to show you the letter. Okay. His response was simply a thank you. Speak soon. but the letter is something I'm going to send to you and I want you to print it if you want to print it because what am I here to do?

I'm here to protect Harlem the gold U-bank from going through anything like what his daddy went through. Okay, I'm here to protect Harlem the gold U-bank and Harlem U-Bank is every other fighter out there. someone has to speak on our behalf because we are blinded by instant gratification we are blinded by the Floyd Mayweather of the world

oh look at this and my planes and no you know we are warriors okay so then I want you to we are warriors what is that okay so rather than say it as a whole poem I'll just speak it as I am and what I am is what every fighter is. I am warrior.

You have your warrior's code, don't you? Yes, my sleep is fragile. Our wisdom is an amalgamation of precedent, but our decisions cannot be based on the frailties of the normal man. We are, we are blessed with this divine inspiration ascending from our hearts. People can't do what we do. Boxing, modern-day gladiating,

it is not a game, it is not singing, it is not, your life has been taken away from you. It's not a hobby. It's not a hobby. It's a way of life. We don't judge for our true assignment is to deliver evidence of superior behavior to the creator of all men.

We do not dream of frontiers. we only see horizons. We know, accept and embrace above all integrity, which is our course in this life, reason, and the application of reason, which is our only weapon, and the real power, the power to forgive and let go. And only when one can fully absorb these most divine of all virtues can one at last see

how impossible and futile it is to speak nonsense, to talk. Boxing is not about personalities, it's about fighting ability. Can you get up and walk back into the fire when you've been put down? That's the entertainment I understand. That's what modernly gladiating or boxing is about.

Walking back into the fire when you can't. And that's how you inspire the people. You're listening to a five live boxing special, me talking to the iconic Chris Eubank. More to come, but let's take a break. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers.

And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. That's LinkedIn.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. When it comes to sending money abroad, many providers claim to offer free fees and competitive rates. But don't be fooled,

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Agents who are Realtors do more than open doors. They have the ethical expertise, market data, and tools to bring you home. So when looking for a home, look for the R and work with a member of the National Association of Realtors. They're right by you. My name's Joe Wilkinson and I'm doing a podcast because I love football. What I love more is the idea of being friends with a professional footballer. The footballer I'd like to be friends with is Patrick Banford. Hello Patrick.

Will you be my friend? That's yet to be decided. Okay, not what I was hoping. My Mates a Footballer is a new BBC Sounds podcast with me, Patrick Boundford and Joe Wilkinson. Some days he'll hate it, other days he won't, and eventually he will fall in love of me. Search for my mates of footballer. on BBC Sounds. You got there by having to go through so much, Chris.

Your early fights were even fights. You know, you were not given a sugar-coated career. You had to fight. It was no guarantee when you came back from America after your fights in Atlantic City that you would get even close to where you got. It took a few fights here to get there. You were not, no one held your hand.

You know, you weren't snapped up from the GB Squad as a leading amateur. and given a beautiful red carpet ride against guys that had lost 73 fights and won four. So you learn through your travile, through your hardships. And once you got to the stage that we're talking about, once you'd beaten Nigel Benn and won that first world title, you had some unbelievably dark and hard and brutal and savage and unforgiving fights, Chris, across the weights once you moved up to Cruiser. and no one so i take on board what you're saying but for you to get that box in wisdom that

fighter's wisdom and that heart you had to come through some very dark places that's the beauty of this vocation because you can you can see i'm teared up okay because i know the feeling the promoters don't know the feeling they don't know what you have to go through you know this young man here to lose 20 pounds to get down to 140 this is Harlem

Harlem that's that's that's the fight you know what what he'll do tomorrow is simplistic in comparison to what he's

to go through to get down to that weight now you know these bouts you just mentioned they give me the ability to speak a truth about the condition of the game Absolutely they do.

You know, you can't have these guys who are given their positions running a mock. They are trampling the British Boxing Board of Control not understanding that the fighter cannot actually have any legacy if they don't follow the rules.

You can't give up your license. Without your license, you are not a boxer. You know, you are... Someone is making you into an assassin for one person. You know, they are flouting the rest of your career. You should be heading 147 over to the States. You should be cleaning up here.

Conabend is a tremendous fighter. Tremendous. I'm the only one. I know. I've not heard that anyone else has supported him through what he went through with this juicing up. He didn't juice himself up. Who is in his team? So what I say to you is this.

Connor, who do you believe? Who's the person you believe who tells you to take in or has injected you with something? Because it's not you. You are an innocent. I saw you. I saw him there on Pierce Morgan. So he goes on to Pierce Morgan and he's not rehearsed anything. and he's asked a question

and he answers it like this I don't know what happened he was bamboozled because everybody around him his team someone in his team if not all of them are responsible for him being in

the doldrums he's in hell and without his license you cannot have a legacy but it seems as those someone has set him up to be an assassin for one man. Give up everything else. Give up your future.

Move your weight up, which destroys you, because when you try to come back down, your system, your internal universe is messed up. You understand what this means? Absolutely, I do, yeah. For who? For one guy. And that guy, my son, Chris Eben, Jr., again,

walks around now at 12 Stones 4. He got down to 159 and the world, the global world of boxing, said he looks emaciated. That was the famous picture when he got on the scows, when he would have been getting on, the scows, had the fight not been postponed or cancelled. Right, okay. Now, you know, when you look like that, you don't have what they refer to as punch, And as I say, I have, you know, during the tour, the tour I did with Nigel Ben, I never stopped praising that young man. I never stopped praising him.

I think he's a fantastic fighter. He's got his dad's power and relentlessness, if you will, but he's also got my skill sets as a boxer. He's a thinker. You know, he's not a, he's not a do-or-die man like his dad. He's not as reckless as Nigel. I didn't want to use the word reckless, but you used it. That's the right term.

He's not reckless. That's not a criticism. That's a straightforward observation. That's right. And that's why he was loved. But let me tell you what, Conner isn't that. Connor is a thinker. He's a philosopher.

Okay. And you can see that in his boxing skills, which is, how is this man not got a license? Who is he following? So let me tell you why I admire him. Even more. Why I admire him. We are brought up

under the rules of Sunday school. These are the commandments. The fifth commandment, he is a Christian. He believes in Christ. He believes in Christ. He believes in Christ Jesus. One of the commandments, the fifth one, says as follows, honor your father and your mother,

so that your days will be long upon the earth, the land that God. God gives you. Honor your father and your mother. Okay. Now I'm talking to his dad now. Okay. I'm talking about his dad. His dad is leading him into hell. He's leading his son into hell. And the son is doing exactly what scripture tells him to do. He's honoring his father. He's honoring his dad. So let me tell you what, I love him even more. That's right. If I'm walking you into hell, son, You have to come. That's the rules.

Okay, that's why I admire him so much. So much more than his boxing ability of which is astounding to me. He's a brilliant fighter. They've now carved him out to be an assassin. You only actually fight when we want you to, and we want you to fight against this one man. At this weight.

At this weight. They try to boil my son down to 157, and now they're trying to boil him down to 160. My son doesn't have the punch resistance anymore. Period. Okay. I admire my son. I admire Connor.

I don't pick sides in boxing. Why? Because I am the warrior. Okay, I don't judge. Because my true assignment is to deliver evidence of superior behavior, behavior to the creator. Okay, to the divine providence. So I take his side as you can feel and as you can hear. And as you can research, I've always been on his side.

Let me tell you something about him going into that Pierce Morgan interview. When have you ever known a thief or a liar to walk into the light? They never walk into the light. What they do is they hide in the shadows. Walking into that type of light proves his innocence. He has somebody around him. who is who he trusts. What I want to say through you is,

why do you trust them? Why? Is it because they have money? Or is it because they've proven to you that they are stand-up guys and you've seen them in situations where you've seen them walk back into the fire in some situation to where they've shown that they are honest people?

you can trust a fireman he goes into the fire to rescue the person who is not related to him he puts his life on the line and then he goes in and then takes him out of the fire a person like that you can trust you can trust me Connor because you saw me get up in a fight I couldn't win why was I getting up

why because it was the right thing to do This is a bed that I've made. This is a bed in which I sleep. I've had my days of knocking people out and looking all good. I have a fantastic show reel. Now it's not going my way on this particular night in September of 1991, the 21st of September. Now it's not going my way. I'm supposed to what, say, no, I've had enough.

No, I've got to stay there and take my beating. Which you did. Which I did. Okay. Now, with that, Connor, that shows. you, so I'm speaking directly to you now, Connor. It shows you that I am not a liar. I don't

hide in the shadows. I admire everything that you've done. I saw him, he said something in a clip the other day, really sad, referring to me. There's nothing sad about me. I still admire you, no matter how many bad things I've

heard you say about me, I still admire you because you follow your dad, and your dad's wrong. He's wrong. Have you tried to reach out to Connor, Chris? How do you reach out to a man who's under the influence of, he's under the umbrella of people who are, he's got to check them out.

He's got to take a second look at them quietly. I don't say do it overtly, do it quietly. Just take a second look. You're 147 and you don't have a license because your dad tore up his license on television. You think you can go around or, discard, the British Boxing Board of Control, you cannot have a

legacy. You've got to play by the rules. You're going to cross the road, you have to look left and right. You're going to ask a lady for a date, you've got to be polite. There are rules. Follow the rules. And as I

say, you know, for the public, I ask you to put to him. I'm willing to speak to you openly. I can I'm willing to sit down with you in front of the lights or in private. And you can have all your people with you. But Connor is competent enough to actually sit with me and not have any fear because he is intelligent.

I've never stopped. You know, even, you know what the dad did? Well, recently. No, this was on tour last year. Yeah. You know what he did? No. He said, don't talk about my son.

I'll talk about my son. What, whilst you're on stage, you were praising Connor. Yes. And Nigel said, Chris, don't do that. That's my job. That's right. Yes. He may have put the mic down, and he told me afterwards,

no, don't talk about my son. Why would you do that? Why would you do? Why would anyone do that? Those interviews are actually there on YouTube. If you study them, especially the early ones, I give his son nothing but praise.

And Nigel too. I refer to him as my king. How do I know that he's a king? Why do I call him king? Because I had to climb over him. Of course he's a king. He gave me the toughest fight one of, no. He gave me the second toughest fight of my career.

Michael Watson is number one. And on Michael Watson, I'll tell you this. He's making money on these tours. Just. Just started. Who? Michael. No, I'm not talking about him.

I'm talking about, I'm talking about Nigel. I'm making money on. these tours. How come Michael beat him? Okay, the only argument you may say is that, well, he doesn't speak coherently enough for people to understand because of the disability. Sure. Well, you know what? I've got a way around that. I'll do a tour with Michael. I'll do the talking. And I'll let the people know that. That would be a very good idea, because he's just started to, he's just started to attach himself to one or two, one or two evenings in the last six months, Funnily enough.

Well, let me tell you this. I will speak for him and let the public know what I went through. At his will, he was extraordinary. After the fight, isn't it a wonderful thing that I said after the fight, I wanted him, I want him tested. So now today, this is a wonderful show. Because the show is true.

I wanted him tested because no one can be that strong. You can watch the interview as you're watching the interview. It was six feet from my face. Okay, so then you saw, I'm actually looking at the crowds who I think is invading the ring trying to come and get me because they may think that Michael has been robbed because they said he was robbed the first time. So I'm looking around, I'm thinking this is a dangerous,

no, I'm getting out of here. I pull away from the gloves and I pull away from Gary Newborn and I move away to get shelter. And your two security, your cousin Bobby Joe and Guy Williamson are shielding you in the corner. That's right, right. Now, at that point

though, when I'm pulling away, I'm not looking at the camera, I'm saying if you're the camera, I'm pulling away saying I want him tested. I want him tested. No one can be that strong. You're looking, you're looking to see what's going on. I'm not even, I'm not talking to him now.

I'm now looking to protect my own. person, but as I'm finishing my sentence, which is, I want him tested, I want him tested, what's going, no one can be that strong, but I'm looking for my safety. So I'm even speaking unconsciously, that's how much of a beating I took that night. I nearly died that night. And the only reason people don't know that is because how can I talk about me being close to death. When he was close to death. No, when he had six brain operations in the space of 12 hours.

So, so, so, you know, you're here now interviewing me. Your man here is me. Patty. Patrick. So Patrick is seeing the show. How does this not sell out? First time. I'm asking you the question.

It does. It sells out. Me and Michael. And let me tell you something else. Boxing news. did an article sometime back talking about bars

and the bar of all bars is Nigel Ben versus Chris Eubank 1990 there has been no fight more spectacular in a British boxing ring since 1909

but that's lip service it's lip service Michael Watson took September 21st September 21st he took me to school for 10 and a half rounds. He took me to school.

And the schooling wasn't in boxing tactics, so I'm going to slip this way and I caught him. He battered me. Battered, so battered. So what is that? Getting punched from pillar to post, I wasn't in the fight. He outthought me.

He outmaneuvered me. He outpunched me. In every department, I got beat. up until that last punch. The last punch of the 11th round. Of the 11th round. And I'm saying to you, how is it? Me and Michael are not on stage.

Michael, you don't have to talk. Let me praise you. Let me do the praising of you. Let me tell you how it felt from my end. That would be sensational. And I'm considered now the king. And I put him alongside me. Let me tell you what.

Let me tell you something about Michael Watson. That man calls me no less than three times a week. You know what he tells me? Go on. I love you, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. I love you.

You're my brother. You know, I really consider you my brother. I feel guilty because many people call me. I don't take the calls. Sometimes I can't take the call because it's early in the morning because he's an early riser. And I mean really early riser. Yeah. Okay?

So I get calls, I can even show you, miss calls from Michael. And he tells me the same thing all the time. I love you. And he thanks me for talking about him, the way I talk about him. But how can I not tell the truth? How can I not tell the truth?

So this is the last thing I want to get to on this point. It's incorrect. The greatest fight ever seen in a boxing ring. correct by the boxing. It's lip service. It wasn't the NEC. It wasn't Ben. November 90. It wasn't. You saw the fight. I saw both of them, Chris, from 10 feet away. Six feet away. Okay, so then you saw the king having his bottom handed to him in royal

fashion for almost 11 marines. So that is a show. Michael Michael deserves to be making money from his achievements and it's not so the boxing is one thing the inspiration that he's been for all these people

with spine injuries and brain injuries they gave him they gave him an MB okay I knight him I'm king I want you to use this no listen Chris I assure I assure we will because obviously

it's a subject that's close to my heart. I was with him for two days in the intensive care. In fact, you remember you spoke to me to, and I gave you the tip on getting in and out of the hospital, bars. I told you there was an entrance you could go to avoid the crowds outside. And you came up on the Tuesday night after the fight. I remember speaking to you. It was a very tough night because, you know, it was a very tough night. It was a very, that was a very tough. That was a situation, man. That was a situation. That was a situation and the wisdom that I've garnered from all of this and this lip service, you know, it's shameful the British public, okay? And we're talking now 16 million people watch that

fight on ITV, 16 million. And Michael Watson was known then as the people's champion. Okay, what did they do for Michael? What did you do for Michael? The people's champion. What did you do? It's lip service. You know, you show Michael how you feel by turning up to this show. To the tour. That I will come, I will do this tour with him.

Show your appreciation for him now. It's a sensational idea. It's a sensational idea. It's a beautiful idea. What did you do for Michael? Let me tell you something. Okay. I'm proud of it now. But I've beaten myself up

for this, for doing this. for doing this. I've beaten myself up for years. And you were probably at this event. I'm sure I was. Groverner House? Yes. I sparred with who?

This was an aide raising money for Michael. It's 1991. No, I can't remember. Okay, so Grove and a House Hotel. Okay, I spied with Chris Pyatt, you know, a thousand people in the downstairs hall. Yeah. Okay.

Right. That was the first fundraiser. That was my fundraiser. Yeah. Okay. Now, this is what people don't know. Again, this is fresh off the press. Thank you.

Okay. Not only did I buy most of the items in the auction. In the auction. I put in that auction the WBO Middleweight Championship of the World Belt that I won from Nigel. Yeah. I beat myself up for years for that. So that sold and so it's gone.

Yeah. But, you know, I cry for this reason. Okay. I beat myself up for it because you can't be that kind, Chris. You cannot be that kind. But I cry because I'm glad that I did that. Because that belt exists out there somewhere. So I also cry because someone bought it for £3,000.

Three thousand pounds. You know what I went through to get that? I do. I can see. I know exactly what he went through. And, you know, you know,

and if I had, if I, if I had known, obviously I would have bought it because I bought most of the items, the items anyway, but to let that go for three thousand pounds, I put, the years I put in, the beating I took that night from him.

This is Nigel. Yeah, of course. To get that belt. To middleway build. To get that. And I put it in that auction for Michael. And I may have even known that it went for $3,000, but I'm letting it go because I'm raising money for Michael,

even though I can buy it back, which I should have done, which is why I've been tug-a-war with myself for all these years since 1991, since I did that. And it's gone. So, you know what? Nothing's gone. You know what?

I just got the benefit. I just got the benefit of doing that. I just cried for it. So when you cry, remember, it's an emotion. I did that. I went through that. And I did that. I put that belt in that auction

that I would have given anything for. I would have given anything to get that belt from Nigel. Oh, I know. Okay. That was one of the most personal fights ever. It was beyond personal. It was different.

It was odd. It took, it was a different realm. That's why maybe sometimes people talk about the 1990 fight against Nigel over the 1991 fight. It was a, it changed the way we looked at the way fighters' rivalry. You and Nigel invented something that we hadn't seen, it's standard now, but we hadn't seen it at that time, a rivalry between two very different characters, and it just caught on. So there was an intensity and a fury attached to that fight quiz.

I know there was an intensity and a fury attached to that fight, Chris. I know there was an intensity in a fury attached to September 21st, 1991, a Waiha Lane, Michael Watson for the vacant WBO Superman. I know there was an intensity in a fury there, but I can see why people still look at the Benfight. Let me tell you why they do, or should I say that? The reason they look at that is because of the brutal manifestation of that negativity of him. Yes.

That's what caused all this. where they're still trying to replicate it today with our children. With the sons. And as soon as I go back to the sons, weight fights the same weight. These people, you have to abide by the rules. Okay, so to go back to the belt, it's being worth, you know, it's the first time in my life or over these years since the fight. that it was worth the 3,000 because I'm experiencing life.

I just cried over what I did and what I battled with for years. Why did I do that? You can't be that. You can't be that innocent, Chris, to give the... You know, again, I'm saying, do you know what I went through to get this belt? This belt was for... And what it meant?

The last term I use on the interview, Peter, Peter, Eubank, I did it, man. You said I couldn't do it. This is a child, this is my entire life. I'm trying to actually get the love of a brother or the respect of a brother. And the belt signifies that. And I gave it away in aid of my brother. Because Michael is my brother.

It doesn't matter about the, it doesn't matter about at the time, the ignorance or the things which we were ignoring. we come from the same country in spirit. We're Jamaicans. He's my brother. But that was a business. Someone had to make king. Someone had to get to the country. There had to be one.

And we went for it. And what happened happened. And I'm sorry about what happened. I can't. I can't do anything about that. That's what happened. I can't do anything about that. That's what happened.

You know, if that tour, if that tour, when that tour gets rolling, when that tour gets rolling, you know, that belt is going to come back up. And I'll buy it back. Do you need that tour, Chris? Do you do, do you need, after all these years, do you do? Yes. Let me tell you why I need the tour. I can sense you do.

Let me tell you why I need it. I need it to let, I need to do that tour to let. the people know what they need to know about Michael Watson. That's why I need a tour. I need the tour to speak my truth about this boxing game and what it entails. You know, if I'm telling you Michael Watson is calling me, he's calling me. He called me. No, I believe it is.

Every time I ever speak to him, he asked me if I've seen you, And if I see you to send regards, that's every time I see it. Who does that? The system doesn't teach you to be like that? You think I'm going to, I mean, okay, Piers Morgan, fine. But it's the same subject. You think I'm going to cry to any reporter? Even you?

No. Well, I have done. Yeah, and like Piers said, yeah, you're real. And the only way you actually know someone is real is by their tears. Michael Watson Unsung Hero That's where the word That's what the word was made for

Unsung Hero On that tour On that tour I hope to get back my belt Or I hope to get the chance To be able to buy my belt back I've shown I've shown

I've shown my parents Who are no longer here Who I am That's who I am Are you happy with who you are Oh How can I not be happy when I did that? Because that tells you, if I did that, then what else have I done?

I've always been a good man. I've always walked in Sunday school. I've always walked in the law, L-A-W. I've always walked in the Lord. I've always done it. I'm just like Michael. We're no different. Chris, I might call it a day there.

I might call that here because it's been fantastic talking to you. Thank you. We're as to far away indeed. Who done it's. Crime conundrums, murderous mayhem. Why are you doing that voice? I'm just getting in the mood for our new podcast. Murder they wrote.

Hey, I'm Laura Whitmore. And I'm Ian Sterling. Anyone who knows us knows we are obsessed with true crime. We're here with a new podcast exploring the dastardly deeds of history's most atrocious criminals. There'll be mystery, madness and moments of... Oh my God. Do they wrote with Laura Whitmore and Ian Sterling. Listen on BBC Sounds.