5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - South Asian Heritage Month SPECIAL

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

To mark South Asian Heritage Month, Buncey is joined by former IBO world champion Jawaid Khaliq and the BBC's Kal Sajad to celebrate the South Asian community's contribution to British boxing. From the pioneers who broke down barriers to today's new generation of stars, they explore how British boxing has evolved and why South Asian representation in the sport is stronger than ever. The discussion looks back at trailblazers such as Amir Khan, who paved the way, the challenges they faced, and the lasting impact they've had on the sport both inside and outside the ring. We also hear from two of Britain's biggest boxing names, Hamzah Sheeraz and Adam Azim, who reflect on their heritage, their journeys to the top, and the responsibility they feel as role models for the next generation.

This is Five Life Boxing. Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Five Life Boxing as we celebrate South Asian Heritage Month. Now boxing is one of those sports. I think it's a unique sport where it doesn't matter what colour you are. It doesn't matter how wealthy you are. It doesn't matter what religion you follow. It doesn't matter about your sexuality. We'll take you if, and it's a big if, you want to fight and you're prepared to fight.

It's that simple. Now, few communities have contributed more to British boxing over the last 10 or 15 years, maybe 20, than Britain's South Asian community. And today, we're celebrating some of those fighters. We'll hear from some of them, but more than that, we'll tell some stories. After all, that's what I like doing.

I like telling stories. Now, during the next hour or so, we'll definitely hear from Hamjasir, who defended his world title last weekend in Jed. And we'll have Adam Azim on, who should be fighting for a world title soon. we've been saying since 2023. Hopefully it really will be soon.

We're here for one of the top trainers in the country who's safer H. Iqbal, who recently was with Lewis Croc who lost his world title down in Australia. In a studio, we have the first British Asian boxer to win a world title. Jaya Wackleek, the IBO

World to Wake champion. And also with me here is the BBC's lead boxing writer Kalsajad, who if I'm not mistaken, has already won an award. What is it, Media Award. Yeah, Asian Media Award, sports journalist of the year, 2024.

It's an award-winning show. I've got world champions on my right, and I've got Cal with his award over there. He should have brought it down with you. But I've got to tell you, all expense has been spared. Yes, you did hear me, right? All expense has been spared. We've got no water bottles.

We've got no coffee. Paddy the producer is on the floor. At least Jawad's got a sofa. I've got a nice chair. Cal's sitting. I'm not even sure what he's sitting on. It looks like a chair from a kindergarten school. Anyway, that's the plan.

First of all, fellas, let's start with you. Let's start with you, Joanne. How are you doing? And sorry for keeping your waiting. You came down from Nottingham and we were about an hour late for you. Deepest apologies. We've been at a women's press conference that just ran for seven hours instead of five hours. How are you? I'm good, thanks, and it's a look great to be here. Why is it important that we recognise what the South Asian community has given to box it? I think it's taken too long to be recognised, to be honest. There's been boxes in the past that have not no real.

recognition a bit like myself. Yeah. We've been out there representing Great Britain, representing England, boxing for our families, for our friends. Topping the bill in your hometown, seven or eight times. And nobody really knows about us, apart from the locals and people that are interested in boxing.

And how else are we going to get the future generation to follow in our four steps if they don't highlight this or showcase what we've been doing? I mean, we always say, imagine if Nassim Hamer was around now. Imagine if Lennox Lewis was around now in this modern age. Imagine if Jarwed was around now in this modern age. Yeah, Buntzi. Absolutely, absolutely. I think what we do know is that the likes of Hamza Shiraz, Adam Azim, they do attract a large Pakistani fan base. But look, I just really want this podcast to be a

celebration of the South Asian community and boxing, and not just boxers, the likes of me, journalists, trainers, people behind the scenes who helped grow our sport. Listen, if we can show people 25 years ago, there was a guy from Nottingham who was winning world titles, topping the bills in his hometown like we'd done with Jawah, then we would have done our job to be perfectly honest with you. I really mean that. I remember when Jarwood won the ABAs, you were my featured writer in my report

because I thought you were the best boxer that particular night. Were you boxing for England at that time? It was straight after I won the ABAs. I got selected to box for England, yeah. And so you should have. Yeah. We're talking more about what you're doing now

and what you're involved with. But Cal, when you started covering boxing for whatever, five or so years ago... Yeah, five, six years ago. In all fairness, there's not been a massive increase in Salvation boxers in that period. a slight increase, but not a massive increase.

Whereas when you started boxing all those years ago, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I guess that when you first walked into a boxing gym, you were the only South East Asian kid in there. That's right. I went in there and there was nobody else there, apart from me. I used to go to the shows, boxing

shows, didn't see a brown face anyway. And it did feel a bit weird and awkward, and people used to, I could hear small comments, bad words being said about me, and I could blatantly hear it. and people standing behind me. And when I started competing, it was the same.

People used to look up me, laugh up, me, point up me. And it drove me, though. And there wouldn't have been any Salvation referees or judges at that point, either would there? Well, if there was, there might have been very many, if any. I can't remember any seen any at the time either, no, whereas I see a lot more now as well. How did you cope with that, Joad?

Did it put you off? No, I think it motivated me and it gave me more strength. You know, it wanted me to prove there to them. Every insight was. I can't do something. and it made me box even better. But that's your character, right? So there'd be 100 other Joids

who would have been put off by the school. That's right. I mean, I rose to most of my fights. You know, the odd one that was bad, but I rose to it. And I performed even better. Because of the pride there, we Asians, we have a lot of pride

and we can't go back home if we don't do well. Our families, you know, they get the old belt out or the slipper are, you know. What did your parents think of you boxing? To start with, I'd tell them. I used to go home.

I knew he was going to say didn't tell his parents when he started. I used to go home and put a bit of makeup on where I got a black eye or a bit of a mark or something. And, well, within one or two fights, I think, I was starting to get into the papers. You were talking about me. You're already 17 at this point, aren't you?

I just turned 17 when I had my first time about. And at that time, it was a senior. So I was straight into the seniors. And I got into the papers. People started to talk about it. Then I had to tell my parents. At the beginning, they were like, no, don't do it. Don't do it.

You're going to get hurt. You've got to study, like, all the Asians. They want you to be a doctor or an accountant or engineer or something. Aunt is on the phone to your mother saying, I've seen Jawad in the paper, you must be proud. And she said, what do you mean?

Seeing Jawad in the paper. What's he done? So aunties going, well, he's a boxer now. And she's going, what do you mean he's a boxer now? Jawad! Get down here! I'm glad you didn't do the accent there. I know.

I only do Ukrainian accents, as you know. I do, I do Eastern Bloc accents. The only accent I'm allowed to do about getting me wrist. Was it more, so you're both your mum and your dad? Yeah, my mum and my dad. More my mum, obviously. but my dad, he was okay-ish.

A lot of his friends started congratulating him and he felt pride and he started supporting me in a sense. My mum was always a bit worried about me. And a few years after that, I think, Prince of Seam came on the scene. And then it became another Asian and that sort of helped. My parents saw that and saw, you know, he's on TV, he's doing well, he's making big money. That's what made him think, yes, Arson could make the money and the rest of it. Because throughout this program,

I'm going to hear from fighters that have got a major influence. So it would be, you know, one or two maybe mentioned Naz, most mentioned Amir Khan. So what made you? I mean, who, I mean, I'm assuming you didn't know who Mohammed Eunice or Mohammed Hanif was, but when you walked through the doors at the gym, you just walked through the doors. No, I didn't know any Asian boxers. I didn't know any boxes really at the time, probably Mohammed Ali and a few others that were the old Greece.

A gym opened down in our area. It was a rough area. And I just went down with a few friends. I was very sporty, very competitive. Fell in love with boxing as soon as I went in there. I was pretty good. Some of the gangsters in the area were at the gym as well. White, black Asian?

They were black guys. And I started sparring with them, training with them, and I was beating them all. One or two were pretty close to me. They were quite big lads. But I was beating them, getting the respect. When I'd go out there, they'd all respect me. And before that, I was very shy, very quiet.

All of a sudden, I was getting the respect. The boxing way? I'd walk through the gangs and stuff and they're all being like touching me and saying hi no problems and it made me want to do more we should say at this point

that if you've never been to Nottingham it's and over the last 35 years covering boxing I've been all around the country I've got to tell you it is a melting pot that's a sort of a cliche melting part but it really is in my opinion it's a really mixed city

it's a city where all sorts of all sorts of tribes mixed together Let's put it that way. We can certainly use the word tribe here. I mean, some of those estates are really mixed, aren't it? You can have a different nationality in every single house. I think in the last 10 years or so, it's changed a lot. It used to be a couple of areas where you couldn't go to,

and now it's changed where you've got Asian area, you've got white city, you've got blacks. It's all, and a lot of a mix as well. So it's pretty good now. I just want to pick up on the word you use there, respect. Now, for me, that's such a key word when we're discussing this topic. Respect is what our culture is built on.

Respect your elders. Respect your siblings. Respect your children. Respect your children. Respect women. It's all about respect. You go into a boxing gym. What's the first thing they're teaching? Respect.

It's a word above the door. And that's one of the key reasons why I feel like the South Asian community in recent years has really excelled at boxing. Because there's so many cultural values that align with our own values. There was a South Asian Oxford educated Indian guy called Sri Kumar Seng, who covered boxing for about 40 years for the Times and he retired about 20 years ago when he was about 82, he just kept on going. But so

when you, Cal, got into boxing journalism, was it media and then you went journalism? Or was it your fancied boxing journalism media anyway? And who would have dragged you in? And don't say Bunce's boxing hour because I'll just be too embarrassed and Paddy'll only edit it anyway.

Yeah, you can edit that bit out. Look, you know, boxing was I was in love with boxing from a young age, from Prince Nassim Hamid, from watching tapes of Mohammed Ali. Now, my dad wouldn't let me go to watch, I'm from Gilligan, wouldn't let me go to the football to watch the Jil's because he grew up in an era of hooliganism, right? So for him, that was still so rife,

even if it was or it wasn't, that's to be debated. But he knew a Muslim name in Muhammad Ali. He'd seen Prince Nassim come up the rank. So for him, boxing wasn't, you know, it was a viable thing for me to look into. So he allowed me to go to the gym, but I wasn't allowed to go to the football. For me, the inspiration were other journalists, of course.

But a bit like yourself, there was nobody like me doing this. You know, I still, to this day, I go, I think, look, the boxing media has diversified a lot in recent years, especially with the YouTubers. You know, it's so diverse when you look at all the different YouTube channels and who runs them. But when you look at that ringside row of tabloid, broadsheets, website journalists, I am one of the only brown faces, if not the only. And there's been times where I've been mistaken for a YouTuber for security or whoever it is. So that unconscious bias is still so rife in the sport

But look, yeah, I always wanted to be a boxing journalist And I'm literally the dream But you haven't had any problems at some I mean it's 2020, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 You've not been, you know, you've not failed to go somewhere You're not failed to get somewhere Because of the colour of your skin, have you? As a journalist, as a writer

In terms of my progression Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think that, no, no, I think A bit like you, you know, if I ever felt like that I'd be motivated to prove people wrong I've had incidents of racism but not in the UK when I've done shows abroad in Poland namely

there's been things that have stuck with me things that have been difficult but I think because at the top of the programme you said boxing welcomes people from all colours and I've felt that look when the likes of Hamza and Adam now and likes of Yujaid and Amir Khan

they open doors not just for other boxers they open doors for anyone who wants to get involved in the sport like so we're going to hear from Hach a trainer a bit later on and the YouTube scene for me is massive. Like we've just been at this press conference and it's so diverse. Infel, TV, boxing, social, all of these guys.

Yeah. Yeah, there's different ages, different sizes, different colours, more women than there is, and has ever been in the press row. That's for absolute sure. Listen, I tell, we're probably running away with time here, and I'm conscious I want to hear from the people that we spoke to. Now, one of the guys

who's maybe at the front here, and he is obviously a world champion at the moment, and a valid world champion is Hamza Shires. Now, he won his title in Egypt, okay, not a bad place to win it in front of the pyramids and he defended it just last, last weekend in Jeddah, not a bad place to defend it. So it wasn't vintage Shiraz and he'll admit that. I think he's tired. He needs a break because he's not superhuman. You know, during fight week out in Jeddah, which seems like I'm named dropping, I'm not, but during fight week, I did manage to catch up with him for just a few minutes.

To be fighting in the month of, you know, South Asian Heritage Month, it means a lot, means a lot and the stars have kind of aligned. I feel like I'm one of the many heading the pack, kind of leading the pack, being inspiration to a community of such. And just kind of, you know, doing the best I can to show that, you know, nothing's impossible with hard work,

with determination and self-believers and you can get anywhere in life. And when you first walked into a gym, how many other South East Station boxers were in? at the time. So you were the one? Yeah, at the time there wasn't. There wasn't.

And there was a few, but it was a minority for sure. And now you go to... Haringay Box Cup. Half the British Boxes of South East Asia. Literally. That's where I saw you. I think I saw your car. Yeah, that's it.

Literally. There's so many there. There's so many. And it just goes to show that, you know, the likes of Amir Khan, who started it off. Myself, who's leading the pack. We're definitely promoting it for sure. and just showing these guys that there's, you know,

you can achieve what you want. And do you feel like, are you sort of aware of that, that role model feel when you're going through your stuff? Not just in fights like this, but at the start from the start you're going. The answer is no, because when I'm in it myself,

it's a very selfish game, a very, very selfish game. And all I'm worried about when I'm fighting is how I'm going to do my best in my fight, how I'm going to make weight, how I'll make sure everything's on point. And then when it's all said and done, if you've got kind of weeks

or however long to relax after a fight you'll just be out wherever you're being and someone will come up to you with their kid and they're like, yo, you're a massive inspiration to them. And I look at myself and I'm thinking, me, like, does that still get you? Do that still get you? Yeah, it's crazy and it hasn't sunk in yet and I just try to like, every time I see him,

I say, listen, I'm glad I'm an inspiration. But ultimately, we're all the same. Do you know what I mean? We're all the same. And if I can be that beacon of light, I'll continue to try my best. Now, this is a tricky one now. Your mum says to your hams or whatever she calls you, she probably calls you something really lovely,

which you're not going to reveal. I understand that because you're a boy. She says to you, listen, I've got this piece of music. I just love it. And then your dad says, Hamz, whatever he calls you. I've got this piece of music, I just love it. What are you going to do? Whose piece of music you're going to use to come to the ring?

What are you going to do, Hans? I listen to a lot of Punjabi music anyway. Okay. You're such a diplomat, bro. Do you know what I mean? So that wasn't really a tricky question for me. It could have been, no. Yeah, and it's...

Yeah, not difficult for me. Yeah, not difficult. And going forward, I mean, as I say, when you're at the Haringay Box Cup, it's just half the card seems to be self-facing boxers' names from British clubs. That's good, isn't it? It's brilliant.

And you and me have been part of that, a massive part of that. It's amazing to see, in it? It's amazing to see it. And I suppose when fighters who are coming up I look at me now, they say, oh, hang on a minute, he didn't go to the Olympics.

He didn't do well in the amateurs, but look at him now. You know what I mean? He's won a world title. He's one of the leading names in British boxing. That's what I mean by it, when I say, if I can do it, genuinely, anyone can do it.

So Ham's O'Saheeras talking to me last week before his fight. Now, the fight itself, he won comfortably, although one judge, I think, gave it a draw, which was absurd. But what I did particularly like was his walking music.

I'd seen the rehearsal with a guy called Garinda Gill. Now, I don't know him. I'm going to hold my hands up. But I thought it was brilliant, the guy. And because it's a bit unique, Ham. They're not unique. I'm sure there's thousands of people,

but his mum's Indian and his dad's Pakistani. And I thought the music, now my ears aren't great, okay, in the sense I can't pick out dialect. I'm rubbish. I'm great accents. Don't ask me to do any. I'll get in trouble. Now, some of it sounded very Indian.

Some of it sounded very Pakistani. You obviously a bit more across it than me, Cal. What was the story? behind the Grenda Gile stuff? Well, to be honest, I'm not across here. Oh, for God, so you're on the show for your expertise, not for my Punjabi rap knowledge. That's true.

Sorry, I didn't read the small print. What I do want to say about Hamza is that I absolutely love him. I think he's brilliant for boxing. He's brilliant for the South Asian community. I remember, you know, when I first interviewed him years ago and he said, my mum's Indian, my dad's Pakistani. They call me the peacekeeper. He said, I'm not like your...

He's breaking stereotypes, and this is going to sound really silly. but he said to me, I'm not your typical Pakistani boy because I own dogs. That's quite good line, yeah? Yeah. Do you know what? He talks so well. Yeah.

He talks so well. And I think Hamza has a responsibility being who he is, and I think he'll thrive on that responsibility. I think he'll carry on what Amir started. I agree with you, definitely. I've got a lot of kids in the gym that look up to him and all talking about himself, we want to be like him and myself, but also with him.

A bit quicker to get that in, Joe. We know you love, son. Don't worry. Yeah, he had a brilliant performance against Bologna, and I think everybody's expecting so much from him. He's living up to it, but it's a lot of pressure on his shoulders, and I don't know what that feels like. You talk about pressure on shoulders. Amir Khan had unbelievable pressure on shoulders,

17-year-old kid at the Olympics. Hamza, you're absolutely right, Cal, Cal, Hamza likes this pressure. He likes this idea that he's a role model. He's really out there, and he's putting himself out there. He's saying, listen, this is who I am. You know, I'm British Pakistani, no problem whatsoever. I'm a Muslim, no problem ever.

So that I admire about him. And he's a cool guy, isn't he? He dresses well, he looks well. The outfits are world club. No disrespect, Joe Ed. I mean, he's done you on the outfits, son. He really has. The boy can do an outfit.

But see, Andrew Wade, if you think back to Amir Khan when he first came on the scene, if I asked you to think of an image that represents him, is there anything you can think of? Because I've got one in my mind. For Amir Khan? Yeah. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you mine.

It's his dad. wearing a half Union Jack, half Pakistani waistcoat. And that's when I think back to Amir at the Olympics or just after the Olympics, that's the image that pops into my head. He was so important for the development of boxing in the South Asian community. I don't think we can underestimate how monumental, gigantic Amir Khan's influence has been over the last 20 years. I don't think we can underestimate it.

And I love him, I know he can be troublesome sometimes. Don't get me wrong. You know, sometimes gets himself in trouble, but as a role model, as a leader, you know, you've had your, how long you had your gym now, do you had? 20 years. So 20 years, take me back 20 years, 18 years, 17 years. I think you're definitely right.

About what the colour was, they wanted to be a mirror. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every kid wanted to be just like a mere con, you know, and for a 17 year to do what he'd done, it's unbelievable, you know, it's amazing, really. I would never, I started when I was 17, and I was panicking every fight, and he was representing in England.

The Olympics is. The Olympics final. It's crazy, yeah. He done amazing. When he was doing well, and that's the point here, if you get a successful boxer, then it can, you know, influence a whole generation. I felt like when he got knocked out by Brady's Prescott, people turned on him. And I feel like the South Asian community turned on him as well.

Do you feel that? I think that's one of the biggest things in England. Whenever we have somebody that doesn't do very well or losers, they all turn on them. They forget about all the good that they've done. That's not a Salvation thing. That's an English thing. That's a British thing. I think that's more of a thing.

I think it's a South Asian thing as well. You know, we like to put people down. We're very conscious and jealous of others doing well. When they're doing well, we say, yeah, they're doing well. But as soon as they go and do bad, we'd have laughed at it. You should have seen my dad when Pakistan losing the cricket. Yeah, it'd be TV off. Yeah, I'm surprised you didn't throw the TV out the window.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's just a good point to hear from Uzza Ikbal, the train, who works with Adam Booth down in Surry, somewhere, a lovely little place. middle of nowhere, has worked with lots of fighters, most recently former world champion, Louis Crocker. And you went and sat with him, Cal, and he started telling you about how Amir Khan, as we've just been saying,

changed the pathway for many young salvations by basically breaking the stereotype. This is not what we do. We fight if we fight, but we are not boxing people. We're not into this. Go to become a doctor, a this, that, that, y'avah. So the minute this British Pakistani guy becomes a professional boxer,

boy, did you have the world and especially the Pakistani and the British Pakistani, the South, the South Asian world, stop to be like, hold on, what the hell is going, what the hell is going on there? This guy should be a doctor, this guy, what the hell is doing in the ring, right? And was he wicked, man?

Was he wicked or was he wicked? Do you know what I mean? And I believe he changed the eyes of every single South Asian that day. That day that he done that, he changed the eyes and he changed the mindset of everyone, that there's more to our kids. There's more to our kids.

kids, there's more to us as a people, as a nation, there's more to us. He stood for a lot more than what the average person would understand because he came to a nation and almost told us that there's a lot more to us than throwing a ball on a cricket ground and putting your heads into books, we can do it. And he was cleaning up, he was cleaning up the set. So even though he wasn't far from me in age, so you always kind of have that ego where it's like, I don't need to watch him. Do you know what I mean? That's me being straight. But he did open the doors and he did definitely, you had my dad now coming back

or my dad's family turning around and saying, ah, he's gonna be like, Ahmed Khan. Yeah, so these guys went from saying to me, you're an idiot and why'd you wanna get beaten up for? Yeah, what an idiot, yeah, like, you should know what your family name is and blah blah blah blah and you're coming on with a black eye and face. So now it's like, ah, you're gonna be army Khan. Do you know army Khan?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So the community, the South Asian community for everyone, in South Asia, right? They're always going to have that. They will always owe him something, do you know what I mean? And especially the gratitude to be like, look, you did open the doors, right? Him, his family, they definitely opened the doors.

They definitely open the doors. H. Dere is most eloquent, if you don't mind me saying so, Cal. That shows the relationship you've got with him. Now, I know the interview was seven and a half days long because they do get on. So we had to cut it down slightly. But there were one or two other bits and pieces in the interview that you'd like to tell me of. And if you missed the point, the one story I want, I'll tell it as well. But you tell us, give us a bit more of H.

I think what struck me was when he talked about the importance of getting the support from non-South Asians. So he spoke about Frank Warren and the support he's given Hamza Shiraz. He spoke about, you know, some young trainers that he worked with when he was younger. Adam Booth has been instrumental in getting H's trainers' licence. So it's like anything in society, right, to help. a marginalized group grow, you need the support of everyone. And I think that's so important, and it's certainly in H's case. The other thing I just wanted to pick up on was, you know,

we talk about parents, South Asian parents wanting us to go into law, become a doctor. Yeah, that's true, to a degree. But now we're getting second, third generation, South Asian. So Hamza Shraz's dad didn't ask him to be a doctor. Adam Azim's dad didn't ask him to be a doctor. Hamza Udin's dad, all these young South Asian boxes that we've got coming through. their parents didn't push them into those. So I think it can be, it can be an outdated stereotype sometimes.

But me and, you know, me and nature of a similar age, so we feel that. But I'm sure if you ask some of these younger guys, they won't necessarily be the case. Now what about when H. was having his first debut at York Hall when he fought? I think he was on a Frank Warren show. It's one of those fights. And I tell the truth, I was there that night working, but I don't remember H. Fighting. Of course, if I see him, I say, of course I remember Hage.

I was there, which I was, but I missed his fight. But what nearly happened that night? Well, he almost didn't fight because he didn't want to. shave of his beard because of religious reasons. It's quite religious age, isn't it? He is, yeah, yeah. I think that sort of left a bad taste in his mouth for a while. It comes back to that point.

Adam Booth was there as a shoulder to lean on, to give him advice, to give him guidance. Adam Booth said, okay, if you don't want to go ahead and take this boxing thing seriously, I've seen you on the pads, you're quite good. Why don't you look at doing this? But it's not been overnight as it. It's been nearly 20 years, 17 years or something, 18 years.

But I understand that rules change now with a beard, doesn't it? I mean, there was a rule, you know, certainly in the 80s when, you know, a little bit of bum fluff and you had to shave. Let's get that way. You know, we're talking not just, I mean, you'd have no chance, you know, with that. You know, Joe had to be alright. I'd have no chance with this. And as for Hage with his beard or even Hamza last weekend.

I went to Hamza boxes with the same beard when he's in. But in the old days under the border controls, probably guidelines are not ruled. He wouldn't have got in. Did you have any beard problem? I've experienced myself as an amateur. I had to shave on the day. and I didn't have a razor blade and my beard was one of them thick beards

within a day or two it's worse than yours Oh right My's not that bad is it Within a year A day or two And I had to use them little throwaway ones And I couldn't do it properly with that

And I just done it as rest of that It's really hard When you've got a lot of beard And then I had friends that were Indians Who had big beards And they couldn't box Because of that Wow

And you know that affected a lot of a lot of people Definitely So that was HAD there talking about Amir Khan and as I said I don't think Amir can't open the door, he kicked that door down. But it was before, Amir Khan, that you became the IBO champion, and a year before you, if I'm not mistaken,

Harry Dami, a Sikh from Kent, became the first South Asian British champion, winning the British time, making a couple of defences. You didn't in fault on the same bill. Why did you and Harry never... You're the Commonwealth World to Weight Champion. He's the British World to Weight Champion. You're about the same age.

You're fighting on the same bill. Why did you never... That's right. There was a lot of talk about it. We were on the same show. We were talked about all my friends and everyone was getting ready for the fight. All of a sudden he got a chance to fight somebody else. Neil St. Clair, I think it was. Yeah. And he got beat.

And then once you get beat, it changes hands. I think I talked to one of his trainers or somebody that knew him at a show somewhere a few years later and they said that what happened was he had some family issues. And I think he separated from his wife and he wasn't quite right. and then he didn't really carry on with it, yeah. But that would have been a huge fight at the time. Imagine that now, Carol. I said early on, imagine that now.

That would be some fight. Mouthwartering. Jarwood Kliq against Harry Dahmi. As I said to him, I said earlier on we were coming in. That's a free fight series. Assuming it's tight. Assuming it's, assuming it's... Oh, no.

Trust me, that's a hard fight. They can fight 36 rounds, right? And Jawad might believe differently and Harry might believe differently. But I'm telling you, I can't see either of you winning any fight easily. It would be hard, man. I mean, I have to disagree with that, to be honest. Of course you're allowed to! Can you get a taxi, please?

I stood in and watched him and he was open for the right hand. One of my main weapons was the right hand. Big right hand. Yeah, and New Sinclair, I think, finished him with the right hand. You did, yeah. I feel like I would have hurt him with the right hand. I was a very big, strong Walterweight. He was a strong, but he wasn't a big puncher.

He wasn't a big puncher. He was a decent boxer, but he wasn't a big boxer. He was a decent boxer, but he wasn't a big puncher. And I feel like I would have caught him somewhere along the line, you know. Who had the bigger fan base? I think I had a bigger fan base, definitely. I had a bigger fan base. I think if you watch it,

the whole of Nottingham comes to a standstill when I was boxing. What was it like walking the streets of Nottingham? Was every auntie uncle just waving at you every time you? You know, it was a good time. It was a good time. I was starting to get recognised everywhere. Yes.

Anywhere I went, people started talking about me. I was on the news, on the radios. And I was just dreaming about the big nights. But unfortunately, they never came true, you know. Do you feel that you didn't achieve and you maybe missed some big fights because of your heritage? I think that was part of the reason.

Also, 9-11 happened around that time. Yeah. I think that made it harder for me to be promoted in the way that they could have promoted me. Maybe my age, I was a bit older. But I feel like at the time, there wasn't any Asians work boxing. I could have been quite a big thing.

You know, a lot of the youngsters were starting to get involved in sport. The next generation was changing a little bit. Now it's even better. And I think it could have been quite big, yes. So yeah, we kind of missed out a little. They're so sad to hear, isn't it? Yeah, and I've forgotten about the 9-11 because NAS had a massive backlash

at 9-11. So that is something that we should have maybe considered a little bit more because I can absolutely see that. Well, let's deal with Adam Azim. Okay, now, as far as I'm concerned, Adam Azim's exciting fighter. I thought he might be a little bit further on now than where he is, but it's not like he's old, not like he's too old, it's not like he's bashed up, it's not like he's been in hard

fights. Now, he does hold the I think he still got it. He won it in February last year. He may not still have it, but if he certainly held it for a while, stopping the former champion, Sergei Libbynets, which was a really good fight. It should have catapulted on the. You went and sat down with him recently, and you started by asking him how close he feels to his Pakistani heritage. Yeah, 100% like I represent the British and Pakistani community. The one thing I love about my heritage is that you know back in in a courtly and

Kashmili aside you know we're all warriors there and you know there's a clan my clan is Rajput so you know we're all warriors down there so I'm massively involved with that as all. Talk to me a bit about how you got into boxing now traditionally you know Pakistan is getting into sport

you know there's the age old stereotype do you education first become a doctor what was it like in your household because I know that was the case for me yeah my my dad is like straight into boxing like you know because you know with us baksanis and you know the kashmili and pakistani heritage we you know we love fighting so for us i feel like you know my dad was always saying to me yeah you can study and that but you know because you feel good at something then you carry on so so you know my household is all it's all like a

fighting family especially like my cousins and my uncle my aunties everyone like we were for we're all like a fighting family so for us it was like we were born with that spirit to fight was your inspiration? I'm sure I read somewhere that Amir Khan was your inspiration and your dad took him to, took you to see him and you were sat on your dad's lap? Yeah, that's, that was the case. Like, I've been to most of his fights. I've been to, like, most of his early fights. And he's always been supporting me. He's a very good friend of mine. And, you know, I've always been inspired by Amir Khan since I was a youngster and I'm still inspired by him now because, you know, he's a legend, you know, he's a legend in the sport and the legend in our Pakistani community.

Do you feel there would be so many young South Asian box now if Amir didn't succeed and achieve what he achieved? I don't think there would be that many. I think what Arm McLean did, you know, he inspired the next generation and he inspired me when I was a kid and, you know, I want to do the same. I want to inspire the next generation.

You know, I want to help the community out as much as I can. And this is about uniting communities and it's not just British Pakistanis, as it's a South Asian community. from Slal, there's a lot of Indians, Punjabis, there's Sri Lankans. Do you feel a sense of community with all different types of South Asians

or is it just affiliation with British-Bakistanis? I think it's every South Asian, like, you know, even the Punjabis as well, they support us as well, the Sri Lankans, you know, they support, you know, any person that is a South Asian, we always support each other. So except from the Pakistan versus India,

I think that's when it gets a bit controversial. Are you a cricket fan? I'm a big, I'm a cricket fan, but when it comes to Paxton versus India, I have to watch it, but I don't mind who wins anyways. I want Paxton to win anyways, so, yeah, but yeah. You've got such a strong bond with Shane.

Is it important for your coach to understand your cultural values? I was speaking to the trainer H about this, and he has, you know, he's got a few, he's got a few fighters, and they'll pray together, and they have that bit of understanding. With somebody who's not from a South Asian background or a British Pakistani background.

Is it important for them to understand your culture a little bit? Shane, Shane, you know, loves the culture side. Like, you know, he's always, like, every time in the change room, he comes, prays with us as well. He loves that culture side. So, and he's always, you know, he's always supporting us, you know, inside the ring and outside the room. Once you retire, many years from now,

how do you want to be remembered by those within your community in the South Asian community? A legend. I want to be a legend, legend. for the South Asian community. You know, I've always looked up to, you know, Army Khan. I also looked up to Muhammad Ali. I watched a lot of his interviews of him

and what he's done for the country. And, you know, I've always looked up to him. It's interesting that one of our inspirations in sport wasn't a South Asian. Yeah, yeah, it's true because, you know, Muhammad Ali is a legend, it's great. You go anywhere, everyone knows him. Like, even now, this generation, everyone knows him.

So, obviously, he's not a Pakistani, but he's, he's, he's representing the whole community, the whole community. So, you know, he's done really well. There's any parents out there? We've got young South Asian boys and girls who want to take up boxing, but they're slightly reluctant to let their kids get punched in the face. What advice would you give the parents? Let them get punched in the face.

Because, you know why? That's the only way they're going to learn. Like, for myself, I got punched in the face when I was a kid, and that's the only way I'm going to learn. But, you know, if you want to get into boxing, then you have to put everything into it. You can't get distracted. You can't, you know, for me, I never had that childhood life where I know, I've been going out too much.

And I've kept my circle really small. And I kept my mates. Like, you know, I've got my brother. And I've got my family. You know, that's all I need. And my good friends around me, that's it. Because if you've got a good circle around you, then you get successful.

A good circle around you and you get successful. Did you have an advisor? Did you have any salvation people? on your payroll, so to speak, in your orbit? They were just your friends? No, it was just my family. My family and my friends are a close family, and we stick together. They were around with me, and I felt more comfortable with them

and took them around with me everywhere, and they advised me, they're the ones that stood by me from start to finish. We've talked here, and we've touched on a little bit about, you know, we've heard about you talking about being at the Barera and Mia Khan fighting there being lots of racist language thrown about, you talking about, you know, hearing different things, And I think that we need to maybe look a bit closer at that,

the racism that does exist inside society. And whether, you know, I try and paint a really jolly picture that once you walk in the gym, it doesn't matter what you are. Well, I might be over-egging it slightly. If you're a good fighter, it certainly doesn't matter. If you're an okay fighter, it probably does matter. And certainly at venues, you do hear constantly, constantly hear things. When you go to boxing now, Joe, it, is it less host?

Do you think for a South Asian fighter or is it worse or is it much, much, much better? I think it's a lot less hostile now. I think they're getting used to it. They're seeing so many. There's so many everywhere I go now. In amateur shows there's a few boxes boxing. You know, it's from South Asian, from Pakistan,

from India, wherever you want to say. So I think people are used to it. There still is some racism. I think that's never going to go. But there's also certain areas where you know there's going to be a problem. Like this particular club show will be a problem. I mean, that's something that I had in the 70s. You know, it was a real pain going into this particular club

because they always had these fans that were really awful. The matter what colour you were, no, what religion you were. That was just a bad club or a bad part of the country. Yeah, definitely. I think there was places where I used to go, working men's club. They'd never seen a brown face or a black face.

Smoke. And you'd go to the end of it. And you'd get everyone just, the room would go quiet. As soon as you enter the room, it goes quiet. And you know, they're looking at you. And you know, you get that feeling. But, you know, you know, It just motivate me more and you want to prove it to them.

But even when I was just a guest, I started watching somebody or supporting a friend, it was the same. They'd look at you and still give them the funny eyes and stuff. And I think I just used to use it to motivate me and keep going to prove people wrong. But yeah, I think it still happens, but not as much. I mean, it doesn't surprise me.

Hearing that doesn't shock me or surprise me. I do think things are changing. And I think it's a lining theme throughout, this chat is that boxing is a welcoming sport. A lot of that is down to participation, right? And it's cheap to do. It's not cricket. There's no class issue with boxing like there is in cricket.

You can go and buy some gloves or borrow some gloves and that's all you need, right? Just show up with a towel. I think it's something what you said earlier about respect. Yeah. If you look at the Rocky Four, they were all chanting for Ivan Drago. Yeah. And Rocky, you got the respect of the crowd of the people of the opponent. And sooner, near the end of the fight, they were all to put chair for Rocky.

And that's kind of what's happened to a lot of us. I've had the same where people came to me afterwards and, oh, that was a great fight, that was a great fight, you know. And it's only because I was knocking them all up in the ummages. So it helped massively, yeah. My concern is that when you have somebody like Hamza and Adam, and whilst they're winning, great, they suddenly start losing a couple.

Say Hamza Shraz goes and fights Sal Canelo Alvarez and he gets beaten up and stopped within a few rounds. Then what? Say he has another well-title fight. and he loses then what? But isn't that a bit like the situation with Thomas Tuchel in the summer? You know, whilst he's winning

and England are still in the World Cup, he's the greatest, this is the greatest thing. As soon as England lose, he's a traitor. I mean, so that's kind of sport all over. That's just natural. But I'm not so sure they'll turn on Hamza and Adam for that. But I think there'll be enough people

that want the rest of the people to turn. Let's put it out. I'm trying to be diplomatic. Yeah. And I think in the... in the, you know, in fairness, it's, it's a boxing issue as well sometimes. We see what, you know, Anthony Joshua, the horrific things he's gone through over the last seven, eight months, and he loses that fight, sorry, he wins that fight, but he gets knocked

down up to 20 seconds. And people have started to turn on it, and people are quick to forget. And I think, you know, if any British fighter... It's disgraceful behaviour. Absolutely. And I think if any British fighter, as soon as you lose, you know, boxing, it's just, it's a funny old sport, isn't it? Yeah.

It's a funny old sport, except it's not funny sometimes. Let me ask you this. And this always comes up because Amir Khan always seemed to have to fight somewhere around Ramadan. There's always a problem about how he would do. Did you ever have a fight around Ramadan? And how did you handle it? I did a box straight after Ramadan finished. So you had to train through it?

I had to train through it, yes. It kind of makes you more stronger mentally. And boxing is a lot of mental, not just physical. I think it makes you stronger in your beliefs. whether it's fasting or whether it's just praying. And I think all the sacrifices just make it even better for you in a sense and make you stronger and you can't perform. But it can't work the other way around as well.

You know, if you do it wrong, you can be weak, you can be, you can get hooked really badly. You know, boxing is a tough, tough game. I want to pick up on a point that H made to me in the interview. He said, South Asian fighters are big ticket sellers, but they don't bring a lot to the bar. you know, certainly the British Pakistanis. Now, in his words, he went the Sikhs love a drink generalising here. But if you're looking at young British Pakistani, and the way the South Asian boxers currently from Britain,

who are succeeding, are generally British Pakistanis. There are a few that are coming through. So, you know, he said that's a real issue where they're not being put on at top billing because a lot of them will go home because they won't be drinking. So that's a catch. They might sell 600, 700 tickets in a 10,000-seat arena, they're gone, that those, the fans are in and out.

Exactly, and they won't stay to the end. And he made some really good suggestions. He said, allow food stands at fights. Such a simple idea, but could be effective. It's a stunningly simple idea, and it's absolutely effective. And a stunning idea, was it. I've never known a boxing fan that wasn't hungry at 10 o'clock. Have you?

No, so seriously, I've never known a boxing fan. Any type of hall who wasn't hungry wouldn't eat a plate of food. Yeah, and did you feel that when you were coming through? I had the same problem. I had a lot of people that didn't want to come to the shows, because there was alcohol being sold. As you probably know, even going to a shop or a restaurant

where they sell alcohol. People don't want to go there and eat. And we had the same problem. I've done amateur shows. Since I've retired, we've done amateur shows. We don't have a bar there because of this reason. Because a lot of people that come and train with me are Pakistanis and Muslims.

Now, at an amateur level, that's quite critical because sometimes the bar, sometimes the venue will give you the venue because they'll keep the bar. So they'll give you a venue that's worth maybe £1,000, but they'll keep the bar because they're going to take £1,200 at the bar. So if they can't give you the venue, if there's no alcohol on sale, so that means you have to pay £1,200. So that may seem like petty in a discussion where we've discussed men who are making $10 and $15 million. But if you're an amateur boxing club and you can get a venue six times a year for nothing, you know, you know this.

That's a make or break for survival of the amateur boxing club, Joe. We want to get a mobile bar and have it outside the venue, actually. has helped recently. Before that, we didn't have any bars, but recently we've had to do that because we've got a mix now. It's not just Pakistanis, we've got a lot of other people that are coming to the coaches of the shows

and competing in our shows. There's ways around it. That's exactly, yeah, mobile bar. Yeah, cater for everyone. Yeah, of course. I think that is as simple as that. Cater for everybody, and let's get inside these big venues, like the co-op and like the O2. Let's get a massive halal section in there.

That is the, that is, dumbest simple idea. We've been doing that for the last few years. My wife, she's a cook. We had a food trailer for a while as well as the boxing gym. And her food is amazing. Could have bought some with you.

And we've had food there. We've sold more, sorry, we've made more on the food than we have with the ticket sales. Each time. But now she's working in other places that we're not able to do it in the last couple of shows. But the first few, that's what we made the money on. See, these are the sort of problems

that we should be addressing on this part. Not whether not Tyson Fury and AJ are going to fight. I want to know how many samosas we can move to make more money in the ticket sales. That's what I want to know. That would have been huge amount of fight, wouldn't it? Oh, yeah. Get the curry between round six and seven

running out for a crucial car. That's it what? Sargarlu. There's only one problem. You're going to have a big cue on the toilet. Now, before we move on, I'm going to hear from a young fighter who's unbeaten in 13 at the moment

who might come. We'll hear from him in a second. But something just occurred to me. We're talking here, we've heard from Adam Azim, we've heard from Hamza Shierers, talking about how they want to inspire their community and how they want to do this, and they want to be seen as leaders.

Now, we don't necessarily hear that from white British fighters, do we? I mean, you know, I'm thinking more about, say, Daughton Smith. It's not like Daughton Smith saying, you know, and I want to make everybody who's associated with me really proudly. He mentioned Sheffield,

but it's sort of way down the list. So that might be a unique. South Asian think out. Yeah, I think it's just historically you haven't necessarily succeeded or been given the platform in sport. You just feel naturally that

responsibility that you have to. And look, you know, there's an issue within cricket with South Asian players. There's so many at club level that don't necessarily make it into the England team. There's a handful, but it doesn't, you know, if you look at it how many young players are playing club cricket, doesn't translate

to the professional game. And I think it's probably the same with any other sports. So when we do have young South Asian or any South Asian athletes that are doing really well, we just want it to be celebrated. So right now in the British rankings, from 1 to 10, this is the latest from Boxing News, Boxing Monthly, I calculated there's about 25 Salvation Boxers ranked inside the 15 weights or whatever,

which is probably the highest it's ever been. So there's an awful lot of potential guys fighting for British titles, fighting for English titles and obviously Adam is even fighting for a world title and Hamza fighting already a world champion. So these are glory days then, aren't they? That's a half question mark to that. These are glory days for South Asian boxers in Britain.

H didn't think so. No. No. If a glory day will be when we have multiple world champions. We might have two by the end of the year. We might. That's true. It's where you set the bar, right?

It's where you set the bar and I think it's a start. It's certainly a start. And, you know, South Asian participation in sport across the board is an issue. And we are succeeding in boxing and we'll continue to succeed in boxing. But we want to see world champions. We want to see Hamza Shiraz sell out the co-op live, the O2 Arena. We want to see, you know, on his own, not necessarily with Sol Canello Alvarez. We want his name to be, you know, the reason why.

So, you know, there is a lot to achieve. But for me, it's the women's game, you know. There are a few young South Asian fighters. Not very many. Not very many. Considering the Indian women's team is the best women's amateur boxing team in the world. Yeah. So that's what's weird.

You'd think that was some of that would trickle. There is a young girl you should look out for. Her name's Charrandessie. She's 3 and O. She's from Yorkshire. I've heard some good things about her. Pro, yeah, she turned pro. And again, it might just take one or two to just inspire three or four more.

And then that's how you get the ball rolling. We had Ruxana Began, who's Bangladeshi background. It was a kickboxing world She didn't really make it in boxing. Boxing didn't really make it in boxing, but she opened a lot of doors just by her story. She was high profile, and she went against her family's wishes, and it's a decent story, Roxy.

Don't worry about that. It's a decent story. She wasn't as good a fighter as the story, and that's not a harsh thing to say. That's just a truthful thing to say, but it was a great story. And she could still inspire people. Yeah.

She could still be used as a voice. Have you got children? I have. I've got four children and four grandkids as well. Oh, wow. So you've got girls, right? I've got two girls, yeah. Do you think there's an issue with South Asian parents letting girls' box? I think there is. My oldest was a girl. My first born was a girl. And when she was younger, she was with me everywhere. I used to treat her like my boy.

And a lot of the Asian community used to always tell me, why are you taking her to the boxing matches? Why are you taking to the gym? Why are you having her around men with you and stuff? because it's my daughter, you know. I'm proud of her. I'm not like the old generation where they were ashamed to have girls and they didn't want them to be doing anything apart from sit at home or be in the kitchen.

And that was the old norm. And like you said earlier, about inspiring the next generation, how our people want to inspire the next generation. I wanted her to be inspired and do something different. She really wanted to be a boxer. The family didn't want it to be a boxer and she wouldn't listen to me so I stopped her from boxing but she thought she was too good because...

Does she still like boxing now? She's a coach now and she's a coach now and she helps at the gym at the reception because she's got the kids now. She's got three children and my son's got one as well and with my sons I was too hard on them at the beginning

and I put them off boxing. They were as good as me, as tall as me, a bit taller and even better than me because it started from a younger age and I never really pushed them into it because I gave them a bit more of an easier life I think and that's why I didn't really push them into it. Put them off a little bit

so they went off and done the own thing and now they're back in there but they're a bit too old now but I think a lot of our our boxers and stuff want to inspire the next journey and shit because that's something that we get from our families

our families are always telling us you know you've got to make the family proud you've got to make the community proud you've got to do things for everybody else it's not for yourself and from a young age that's all I ever heard I used to hear my parents say

you know you're the oldest in the family oldest son in the family I had a sister older and you know you have to show the rest the rest are going to look up to you, the community doesn't look up to you if you've made a name, or my dad's made a name in the community so he's quite well-known in the community. So they put you as anybody that's going to shame the family

because of your dad, you know, because your dad's well-known. So it was a lot of pressure. So it wasn't just boxing, it was just being a good human being or inspiring the next generation, doing things for the community, whatever it was, it was always pressure, pressure, pressure. And that's why we had to be the best, and that's why I think so many young Asians are doing really well because they have so much pressure

from home, from the community, they're going to boxing and they find that pressure they can deal with it because they've done it was even more when they were younger or at home. And you find identity as well, you find belonging and I think a lot of, I think a lot of children, regardless of race, don't have

a sense of belonging and identity and that's what boxing gives them. They are cohesive. And it works particularly well for the South Asian community. And I think we need more dads like Jouad to inspire and, encourage young girls to take up to sport, young South Asian girls.

And maybe, you know, if this was a business meeting and we had action points, maybe that's what we need to do. You asked about what does success look like. Maybe more young South Asian female fighters. You know what? It would take only one young Salvation woman to transform the market.

It wouldn't take three or four. It would take one. If one woman came through, one girl came through, one young woman came through, made the GBE squad, maybe went to the Olympics at 18 or 19. and then turn pro, it would just take one.

I'm convinced of it. It would be like a trigger. It would be, I mean, listen, there's always been a lot of traveller fighters, a lot of gypsy fighters. I've covered in 1980, early 80s at the school boys, there'd be half a dozen gypsy boys. But the way it's gone over the last 10, 12, 15 years

with Tyson Fury. Well, you know, that's from the guys walking through your door. It's just gone through the roof. I mean, just it's gone from being five or six in the gym to being 36 in the gym. Is that correct, Joe Ed? And that's all down to Tyson. It is.

It is. A lot of gyms. They've got a lot of gypsies that come because of that gym of gypsy community. Yeah, absolutely. And it's the same with the Asians. Since Ameri Khan, American's doing amazing and he's inspired so many youngsters. Every gym I see now, they've got Asians full of Asians in there because of what I said earlier. It's a gym full of Asians.

Someone might nick there as a slogan. Not someone we want to nick it as a slogan. Let's leave it there. You also caught out with a young kid. You've got up with Uma Khan. He's unbeaten in 13 fights as a professional and he's been telling you what it is about boxing that attracts so many,

in his opinion, Salvation's. In a boxing gym, there's criminals that train with police officers and there's brown people that train with white people. Everyone's just sort of like one and you all understand the language of boxing. And then one of my favourite things about it, probably like obviously being a South Asian is how the community and everyone gets behind us.

I've never like seen it. anything like it to be honest but the way we get supported like when we turn pro like it's it's crazy and without them we wouldn't be in the position that we're able to be in now and i think one of the nicest things now is where there's so many of us we've all sort of got together and we're all like pushing each other and putting each other in the right places like if one needs help or if one's boxing's in another part of the country like we'll be there supporting so it's it's nice right now South Asian boxing is in a really, really good place, and it's only going to get bigger. For somebody who, I presume, is Muslim and doesn't drink, is that something that entices young South Asian,

particularly Muslim fighters to the sport? Yeah, I think we're, of course, in our religion, obviously not doing drugs and not drinking. It plays. It's one of the main things, and where none of us do it, it also helps us a lot in our careers. It gives you that extra sort of discipline, not just the drinking. drinking and the drugs, but also that fear of God and praying five times a day, it's all part of the discipline. And definitely, definitely gives us a big advantage, which non-Muslims, I don't know, maybe they don't. Maybe they don't have that sort of fear. But for me, like religion has definitely played like a big role in my career, a huge role.

Umar there with a very, very wise head on very young shoulders. I was impressed with what he said there. he's perfectly encapsulated what we've been trying to get to during the last hour or so. Before we go, I'm going to leave the pair of you with any takeaways from this and anything that maybe you've come to think about during this last hour. Start with you, Cal, what would it be? For me, I think female boxing is the one where I think a lot of work. A lot of work needs to be done. But look, ultimately, there's been a lot of deep, difficult conversations we've had today. we also need to just celebrate where we're at

and I think you know we're the amount of young South Asian boxers with so much potential you know some will go on to become world champions so the future is bright I think a lot of Asians have come to me telling me about how they don't get the support

from their families and that's a big thing I think the youngsters need the support from their family to to progress and do something that they love and we can't all be doctors We can't all be engineers or solicitors. Could not be world champions either, by the way. We can't all be world champions, but we can at least give them that chance to try.

And that's all they want. They want somebody there to support them. And then they can do other things with it, you know, on the side. But I think, yeah, any of the youngsters that are doing something, go and get the support, get the support from your family and do what you love and go for it, man. Great words from Jarwood there. Calad, thanks very much indeed.

BBC's boxing correspondent. And Jarwood Khalik, you've been an absolute pleasure and a delight. It was a pleasure and a delight coverage. It's been a pleasure and a delight spending an hour. We'd like to thank everybody else that's been on the show, obviously Hamji Shares, Adam Azim, Houssafah, H, the coach, and the last voice you heard, which was Umar Khan. You two have been absolutely sensational.

I hope you've enjoyed it because it was an interesting thing this show because we had to give it a little bit of love and a little bit of fun, but at the same time, it's a serious subject. So I don't know if we've walked the line. I know one thing. I avoided cow's clumsy attempts, no fewer than ten times, to get me to pronounce things in such a way that would have got my wrist lat. Cow, you've gone up on my estimation since then, not down.

That's the way I work. I've been Steve Barnes, and this has been a very, very special episode of Five Live Boxing.