5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - The Countdown to Canelo-Crawford begins

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Former world champion Barry Jones joins Buncey to unpack a busy weekend in boxing. They chat Canelo vs. Crawford as their promotional tour has kicked off ahead of their September fight. Eddie Hearn gives his take on Galal Yafai’s first professional loss, and Tiah-Mai Ayton, one of England’s most talked-about prospects, reflects on her dramatic debut. And there may be a bit of Jake Paul chat.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. So another weekend, another series of fights and a bit of a setback for gold medalist Galau Yafai. But on that Bill in Birmingham there was a superstar young teenager. Meanwhile, my man Barry Jones, he's been out in Saudi Arabia, not talking to Terence Crawford and Solkina Ravarez, but we do talk about them. And we look at Chris Eubank Jr. and Saunergate.

I'm Steve Bantz and this is a very special 5 live boxing. Now when I'm going to talk about Galalia Phi and all sorts of things like saunas and obviously Crawford

Terence Crawford and Saul Canelo Alvarez it's always good to get a man who's got his feet on the ground a man that's got his, I don't know, his fingers in several pies so when I knew we were going to be talking about Sol Canelo Alvarez

and Terence Crawford, I thought that's brilliant. I said to Paddy English, to Pomola, I said Barry's actually in Saudi Arabia. He's about 500 metres away from where the press conference is. I know he'll just have a little break. He'll wander over. He'll speak to the pair of them.

You know, he knows Crawford of old. He knows Canello of old. He'll get us some gold. Barry, first of all, how was your Saudi trip before we get into the Canello Gold? How was your Saudi trip? I do in this WPC Grand Prix. It was a chance for young fighters

to make a name for themselves to try and get together. I think the winner of the whole tournament gets $200,000 which is not bad. Is it three fights to win it in the end or four?

It'll be four, it will. So there's six, four six round. Oh no, so the first, so that was the second phase this weekend. I just flew back yesterday

last night. So that was the second phase. So they were six rounds. I think it goes eight and ten. Yeah, I think so. I think. Still not bad money. But I did,

so the first phase, I did 16 fights a day for four days straight. Oh! And Friday and Saturday, I did 16 fights for Friday, 60 fights Saturday. So there's featherweight, super lightweights, middle weights and heavyweights.

Okay, how's the kid from the Midlands doing? Gold Power. Did he win his first? He just got beat. Just got beat. Yeah, he boxed a Colombiancoa who's very, very good. Columbia or Mexican. Gully Power, his name is, yeah.

He boxed really well, Steve, he did, but he didn't do enough. And he was the right, you know, and the kid, he lost Fair and Square, but he showed loads of grit. And I was saying on the broadcast, like, I think he sells tickets. He does, yeah. He's exciting to watch. He's really gutsy. he's a sellable product back home. It is, yeah.

And I hope some promoter picks him up and gives him some work because he's good. I saw him back in 2022 on a show in Wolverhampton that was a standing only show. You know, one of those rare events where you stand. I loved it. In fact, it was so sticky because it was a place that's used. It was in Wolverhampton.

It's called like son-in-a-the-warehouse. And it's used for raves. No word of a lie. When you stood there, you're stuck to the floor to lift your leg up. I swear, it was a genuine task. But anyway, it was really, really good, really excited, and there's loads of talent.

But because it goes on for so long, I got a text from something saying, you said, we can get you Canello, but it has to be now. So you went over, and how was Canello when you got to him? It was okay, he wouldn't come to me? And was Crawford good as well when you got to the pair of them?

I still had three fights to go, so unfortunately. You missed the pair of them back? I mean, I could almost, I could reach out at the front door and probably touch him. You had one job in Saudi, if you don't want me to say, sir? Or two jobs, really? You interviewed at two fires. you unfortunately. Yeah, but there was

called biscuits. It's just a straightforward piggyback. I'm getting. I'm absolutely getting. I was so close and they had it for us as well, all set up.

But I mean, made an effort to get him for us. I appreciate that, but I couldn't get it. I couldn't get there. We're going to hear from the fighters in a moment and we're going to talk a little bit about

what happened in New York on Sunday night. But last week, there was there was great pictures. You know, those classic pictures at Turkey Alashakes Palace where the two of them. One side of the table, there's Canello.

The other side of the table is Terence Crawford. And I counted about 32 different plates of food on the table, but it looked a bit awkward. They were smiling, but it looked like a fake smile. But I do admire Turkey, because he just insists on getting

these guys together. Even guys that genuinely hate each other. It's pretty much, like, if I'm paying for it, you'll do the way I want to do it. And, yeah, so I mean, it keeps the sport quite respectful and honorable. Remember that word? Yeah, it's a nice word. Not often used. No, not in this

sport, so you don't have to hate you. But I think closer to the fight gets, you don't want to be around each other. We saw that with the second press conference in New York. Yeah. We know where Kennell or Pris Crawford, whether it was staged or not, not quite quite sure. Didn't you feel a little bit for Dana White at that

point? Because he's in the middle of it, bear in mind, you know, he's heard there's a massive fight on and he's going to be officiating in this massive fight. So he was looking for John Jones and Tom Aspinall when he got on the stage, and he had Terrence Crawford and sold Clara Alvarez. He looked like he couldn't believe his luck. He's a fantastic prodding in his sport. I'm sure

he'll be the same in boxing as well. But he's been given a fight here. That's the probably one of the easiest to promote. I would say that. But, you know, but he's earned his right through doing it in other ways, maybe, to show that he can promote a big occasion. I think that's the difference. How he adapts to boxing?

Well, we'll find out September. With regards to this fight, okay, now we know Canelo's, you know, all those fights, 67 fights, 34 years of age. You know, in all fairness, Crawford's had 41. He's 37 years of age, moving up in weights, but they both moved up in weights over the years. And then there's that little bit what Turkey's talked about where I don't want any Tom and Jerry fights,

no cartoon fights, no run. And they both refuse to run. Canella, we hear from it in, we'll hear him a little bit later on, calls for a small ring. What do we get a call? What's your gut? I know it's a long way out, Barry,

and I hate to ask you this early. Do we get a really hard fight? Or do we get a fabulously cautious, sensible fight? Well, I think we get the mixture of both, and that's the beauty of it. I think it's such a good fight because of that. I think it was interesting.

See, when Turkey did say, I don't want this Tom and Jerry stuff anymore. I want real fights. And if I have to make the ring smaller, I will. Although I'm not sure of all that. But when they asked Crawford that question, he said, I'll box the way I want to box. He's a little bit like stubborn.

He's saying, I'll fight the way I think I can win the fight. But I think ultimately, he knows. And he won't run, but he will move. You have to move. You have to get behind the jab. But he knows at some point he's going to have to hold his feet. To win. To win, to win, he's going to hold his feet.

He's got to. Because even though Kenello hasn't got the quickness that he once had, he still can off the ring effectively. What he does when he gets there, that's where do we get the cana we've seen for a while, which is more still effective but more plodding, or do we get the canella we saw against Golofkin in one and two, whether you thought he won or not so irrelevant. It's still brilliant in those fights where he can throw in fruity combinations. The thing with Canella, he's very hard to hurt. So the fact that he's confident, that makes him

comfortable and confident to walk right up to you and let you let your hands go, because he'll punch with you. Now it's still, it's still three months of away, or as good as three months away. And that would mean that Crawford would have been out of the ring for 13 months since the fight against Israel Madlamov in Los Angeles last year, which was a hard fight where he won a version of a world title at a fourth way.

But Canello also, even though he had the fight against William Skull, it wasn't a great fight. But will he have an advantage, will he have an activity advantage from getting those 12 rounds in? Or are we at the stage with these two guys where they could take a year out and it means

nothing? I think they, I think, you know, fighters at this level and Maggiu can take more time out but I do think that it helps that you are more active I do think that and and also I think he has a van he has the advantage in a lot of categories I think for me Kenello okay you see Crawford tall he's taller than him yeah I think he'll grow into the weight okayish but can he's been working on it for two months now I remember it's a long time boxing this way for a very long time mil and super mill for a very long time and Crawford wasn't that even though madger mom's a very good fighter he wasn't that effect he wasn't as effective at Super Welter.

So he's going to have two more weights. And that might be because he's always been massive for lightweight. Massive for super lightweight and even pretty big for welterweeds as well I thought. Not the tallest, but I think he's grown into it. Top of the weight, top of the size.

Yeah, because of his length of his punches and he uses it perfectly. So he might still have that advantage there, but not the physical size or presence. And having that presence like Canello has, we say it all time. Yeah, yeah. No, he's boxing guys who are six foot.

He's five, foot seven, if he's lucky. And then he gets in the rain. If he's lucky, good point, yeah. And his shadow's six foot four. Yeah. He smothers him. He just, he intimidates him. Barry, with regards to the fight itself,

okay, whether we get a super-fight, whether we get a super technical fight, whether we get an unbelievable fight, what's your gut feeling? I mean, what's your gut feeling? Will we get a great fight? Or will it be great because it's the two together and it's a chess match?

What's your gut feeling? I think we'll get a good fight, guaranteed, and then we'll think of as a great fight, and the great fight is it, and the occasion, because sometimes... So, was, well, Mayweather Pachia was still a great fight, even though, it was a stinker. It was still a great event, great event. But I don't even mean that, I wouldn't even go as far as that.

I think that's, you know, we're stretching. I understand what you're saying, but I think... I should have said, was it? That wasn't a good fight, so you take away the occasion... Good first round? Take away the occasion and who they were and all that, and then you're watching that fight then, it's just people you don't know,

and it's not a good fight. but you watch these two you didn't know them it would be a good fight but with the occasion and the crowd and the anticipation it was a

Crawford and Spence yeah you know it was brilliant wasn't it yeah but it was a one-sided fight yeah so if that's an eight rounder

in a leisure centre in Manchester it's just like oh this is one sided yeah of course but it was a brilliant one back story and a character

it was a great performance at the highest level it won't know and I think we're going to get a good fight which we'll think of the great fight anyway

Let's hear from the two of them. Barry didn't manage to speak to the pair of them. In fact, he wasn't actually hired to speak to the pair of them. We just thought we could double up with Barry working over there, covering the WBC tournament. We thought he could walk over. Well, he couldn't because the WBC tournament ran over. So that meant we didn't get Barry sitting down with them.

Carl Frot had some fun with Canello. That's another story. But we did, here's a little clip, a few moments from their time in New York. And I think this is, I think there's some great little, Have a little listen. It's Sokinella Alvarez and Terence Crawford. Oh, I feel great. You know, it's going to be one of my best victories in my career, obviously. He's a great fighter. He's a legend. But, you know, it's going to be good for my books. I'm very confident, you know. Everything's happening on God's time. You know, there's a reason why I wasn't getting those big fights because God was preparing me for this moment right here.

I hope he brings a good start to make a good fight to make a good fight. fight for the people. That's what I want. If not, I'm gonna do my best to win in every way. Listen, I'm all about making history. I was the first two-time undisputed champion of the world, and I can assure you I'm gonna be the first three-time undisputed champion of the world. Turkey, you need to put a small ring, a small ring, the smaller ring in the... The only running that I'm gonna be doing is running upside his head, and not gonna sure you know and he got a big head too so Barry um the two of them there Terence Crawford talking about how big Canelo's head is and that's true and how they won't be any

running but I love that line from Canello to Turkey Turkey you need to put a small ring well hey who knows it's not a he with them is it I hope they do I mean not a 12th not 20 not just not 24 you get 18 foot ring 19 foot ring that wouldn't be so bad I mean it makes it for I mean that makes it a great fight yeah but also by the way that doesn't guarantee Canello victory. I think it helps him dramatically, but Crawford can spin on a sixpence. It's pivoted, it's beautiful when he does as well

so he can draw you in and spin you. Whether you do that against Canello, see, we're not getting the Canello that's in my brain. We're not getting that Canello. Let me just ask you about which Canelo, because I had a little look this morning, I was going through it. So there's several stages of Canello. There's the early Canello when he was 15, taking

care of business, all those 12-round fights by the time he was 18. Then there's this little sequence. Let me ask you which one of these sequences is best. 2014 to 2015. Angula, Lara, Kirkland, Cotto. Okay? 2019 to 2020. Jacobs, Kovalev and Callum Smith.

And then, 2023 to 2024. Ryder, Jerome, Jamel Charlo, Mangia, and Berlanga. All four of those on points. I haven't even included Golovkin in any of the sequences, by the way. But that's in between the last two sequences. That's Scalofkin 1 and 2. That was 2017. Good sequences, Barron.

Yeah. 2007 and 2018. I could believe the way he won that, he won that, he unified that Super Bowl division. Yeah. By his reputation. Yeah. He did. They went in there.

Fighters went in there. Good fighters been in against him. Waited to get hurt. Yeah. Whatever they tell you, they did. No, they all went to try and win the fight. Of course they did. But you can see the trepitation and they were waiting for it, waiting for it.

And he just walked and bullied him. Yeah. I mean, he couldn't do that against Scalofkin. What he showed against Skullochian was what the chin he has, the worker he has when he's forced to do it. But I don't know if he can still, he hasn't shown that for such a long time. But bear in mind, he's beating, like, young.

He's going the distance quite often now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the last sequence there, the rider Charlo, Mungia and Boulanga, all the distance. But they're all good fighters. Yeah, yeah. Mungia and Boulanga, okay, you say Spitting Boulanger, is not at his devil, fair enough.

But they're still young, ambitious, strong. What do you want? For a challenger. Strong and big fighters. Yes. They're big for their weight. Boulanger, especially big for the weight. And he's still walking and then down and bullying him.

So he still has that. But he needs that acceleration of pace in his world to be Crawford. If he hasn't got that anymore, he can't bully him. He can't beat him. But if he has that, I can see, as good as Crawford is beautiful to watch. I can't see what Crawford beats him. If Kennaud still got that, I can see what he beats him. September the 13th in Las Vegas.

Vegas, 90, 80,000 in the stadium. You and I are going, aren't we? Somehow, somewhere, some way. I haven't put my flight yet. My hotel's done. Yeah, by the way. It's just the way it works. It wouldn't be the first time.

No, you can have the other bedroom. I remember for Lennox Lewis against Frank Bruno. I had two other journalists sleeping in my room. I might be in your room in New York. You remember the old Marriott in Cardiff. It's probably still there. It was always the final. It was a posh hotel, yeah.

It was a posh hotel. I had two people sleeping in my room. I'm quite incredible. Anyway, that's how you start the poll. You know, you do a little bit of Barry being out in Saudi, talking about the WBC tournament. Then we just seg in. Have a little chat about Canelo.

Have a little chat about Crawford. Play a little bit of their conference a couple of days ago. Don't worry there's plenty more because, as I said, at the top of the show, it was a tough night for Galau Yafai. And we might have seen a real superstar. of the future. This is 5 live boxing. So that was Saudi Arabia in New York.

Barry was kind of there, but he is still with me here in D. Martinez. Barry, you missed Birmingham Resorts World on Saturday, and what was always going to be a test for Galao, Yafi against Francisco Rodriguez, a Mexican for Galao's interim WBC title. What it turned into a little bit more than a test, it was a quite incredible performance from Rodriguez and Galau having only his 10th contest looked lost from very early in the fight.

Lost is the good word of use. Yeah, I mean, if anyone had seen Rodriguez before, no, Performed World Champion, by the way, and being in some absolute destroyers, yeah. No, around his division, his weight class, I should say, then you would know that that was a typical performance from him. So I did flag it up in the week. I was just saying like

not so much his power it was he takes a great shot and he's busy and something like Yafi who's physically strong and hits hard and he's busy himself

that's the worst night that's your worst night because you can't hurt him yeah I say what Rodriguez did very well he rolled and dipped after every punch and after him before every punch

so he slipped and roll before every punch so that when he was throwing he wasn't he wasn't head height so he wasn't looking he wasn't either with you, he was getting to your navel then throwing over the top with

wide hooks. And Yafai, who has that, no, a real traditional guard, hands high, I was tucked in, which you should have, but you can't put him his arm on the side. And Rodriguez punches hard. But then after he threw a shot, he'd roll again, and then start throwing straight shots down the middle. So the variety and the

work, it didn't look like a variety. He looked like he was trying to maraud Yafi. But it was more nasty, it was clever. It was smai, it was clever. He was reading Yaffai, and Yafi couldn't. Yeah, if I couldn't solve him. He always like, wouldn't you go to Mexico in his rhythm? Yeah.

That he slide, rolled dip and they throw hooks in it but go to the street shots. All the varieties is smooth with them. And I made a joke afterwards. We'll hear from Eddie Hearn in a minute. I made a bit of a joke when I was talking to Eddie Hearn, but really it's not much of a joke. In the 70s, 80s, 90s, and even in the last 15 or so years, if an opponent comes to town and he comes with just one trainer

because he wants to save a few quid, and if the trainer gets in the ring wearing jeans and a pair of cowboy boots, and if the kid gets in the ring of a dirty old robe, and dirty old boots. Then you think this kid's not that bothered. He can't wait to go to Belarus or somewhere else to fight. This kid came full corner entourage, full corner entourage, pristine white boots with red tags.

And I know boots don't win your fights, but I'm coming to the rest of it. Once he took his robe off, which was festooned with sponsors, he was down to his t-shirt underneath. We had about 12 sponsors on, okay? So this kid was not here to, I thought it would be a really hard fight. I thought Galah might just win on points. I thought he was going to be that hard. This kid, this kid was, I thought he was excellent on the night, Rodriguez.

I thought he was sensational on the night. And I'm not quite sure if Galau had a bad night or if Rodriguez just had a brilliant night. He didn't have, I mean, he'll think he had a bad night. I didn't probably say anything they'll be things they can pick up, but of course they are. Because he's had so few fights, even though he's had a really tough apprenticeship.

Yeah. But he's had so few. He's had so few fights to really draw up. He's had so few fights to really draw experience from that he'll think I could box better. But he can't make it's a guy here, Steve, who, by the way, he's earned decent money because he's been a former world champion.

He's boxing for world titles. Overseas. Yeah. And he's boxing all big names as well. And as not just an easy touch, as a hard match for them. So why do they even think anyone who's in the sport, why would they think this one going to be a hard fight?

But even though I thought, I know I'm not really against. I love this all the ways, you know that. Yeah, yeah, of course. good he was, but I still thought if I would do it. Maybe I got carried away with a well he did against Sunny, but I just thought his physical strength at some

point, not just the power, the physical strength might be enough just to push Rodriguez back, but he couldn't push him back at all, with nothing. No, nothing. He got dropped in the last round, Barry, and there was an argument perhaps that maybe the corner could have pulled him out after

eight, nine or ten, but then at the same time, you know, they know him better, they know the fighter better than me, they were seeing him up close they were looking at his eyes because he was wobbled in the first 20 seconds right in front me eight feet from me and he was hurt yeah well i mean be fair he gets hurt quite often in fights yeah because he's because he's strong and he's very very fit he's very fit he recovers quite well and it's even though he never hurt rogeriego once really you yeah when you're a guy you can punch like him i understand there's always the chance there's always a chance yeah the problem he had there

again, I mentioned the two warning signs was he takes a great shot, Rodriguez, but he throws a lot of punches, which he did in this fight, but we all knew that going into the fight. And so you're always going to be a nightmare with a guy again, when you're trying to set up a punch, but he's throwing 4, 5, 6,

and then 4, 5, 6, quality shots. And they were quality shots. It was brilliant. Again, we always say this. Everyone's a genius after the event. Let's get that way. The thing is, the majority of people who watch boxing,

because they don't really study like the weights, wouldn't have known if he was. Because this is the Yaffai night, is Yaffai's knight in his hometown, then you think it's to set him up to be crowned the world champion. But this is a fight. He had to fight to get the chance of boxing

so they really know for the genuine title. And the guy, you just look at his losses. Just look who he's lost against. Well, it's that recent loss but a couple of years ago to Jantan Nakatini when he loses on points, 10 rounds in Japan. Nacotini, I think, had just given up the flyweight world title. would go on to win two versions, if I'm not mistaken,

of the bantanweight title. I think since then he's stopped six or seven or out of eight or six out of seven or seven out of eight. And yet that was ten rounds. He may have lost it, but that gives you that. That's what you call form. That's guide. That's a guideline.

Donnie-Nittes, still. I'm not a woman. He's losing the Hall of Famous. By the way, future Hall of Famous. Oka, Donnie Neathe, Donnie Tez, they're guaranteed Hall of Famers, as is Nakatali, I think, already.

So you know, you're not losing, I mean, so you've got, they always say, it's dangerous to judge a fight against his losses because ultimately he's still lost.

But he's already one of all the whole team. And all those losses, he's competitive. I mean, so you've got to, you've got away that. There was a massive jump up

for the Yafi, which I thought he would have overcome. Yeah. But I never thought, but I wasn't shocked that it didn't turn, that it didn't go his way, didn't turn out that way

because he was up against a class, class fighter. And it was clear from the opening round that it was not going to go its way. Anyway, in the end, I jumped up in the ring and it was not a particularly happy place to get the thoughts and, I don't know, the thoughts and feelings,

if it was feelings as well, from Eddie Hearn. Great night of boxing, but I mean, for Galalia fire, you know, it was a real lesson of the elite end of the division. You know, I mean, a terrible start. Couldn't get off to a worse start. 20 seconds in that. Got hurt really badly and actually did really well to survive the first round. Kind of won a couple of.

rounds in the first four or five and then it was just one way track it after that you know and he kept making too many mistakes he wasn't investing in the body but i think he was still recovering from what happened early in the fight and you know you can't be trading up with a guy like that you can't be pulling out with your chin up in the air you can't be you know not investing in the body when you got someone as tough as that that's been the distance with nakatani and ioka and tarasas and i think after six rounds the total punch count was well over a thousand from both guys and he was relentless did you think rodriguez would be that good i mean because i'm I'd look to the record, but I was just hoping there might be a little bit of wear and tear.

He's a world-class fighter who has failed at the very elite end. And he's lost to guys like Nakatani and Iokka and Tarragas. And his fight with Iokha was very close. But this is the moment the test comes that you've got to prove you're of the same level as the Tarragers and the Iokas by beating that guy. And he's kind of like a world-class gatekeeper to elite level. And he was well-beat tonight, yeah. You know, and look, I'm proud of him because the toughness was incredible.

And that's a great box to tick. But the quality that Galau has, he didn't show tonight at all. Now, was that because he just didn't perform well? Did he have a problem in camp? Or was the style and the pressure of Rodriguez too much? And being hurt so early and so quickly. Yeah, that's a disaster. I kept trying to see his eyes ahead, and I'm not really sure he ever really recovered.

No, and I think that, you know, the last three rounds might have been three rounds that he might not need it. to take because at that stage I don't think he can win the fight you know and especially when he's not thrown to the body to a guy that's been the distance with those guys especially nakatani and those huge punches you know he's got a great chin so you've got to try and slow him down it's always it was always going to be hard with galow in some ways ed because you matched him really hard from the start so we were always going to be on a fast track two hard fights um and it's just a trick it's just a risk and i use the word risk and i mean it's a risk we have to take when we could have taken Galau on a slower route and got him here after 16?

He's 32 years old. He's a guy that's boxed all over the world. He's an Olympic champion. And at the moment, you know, pretty much he's been through most of those guys in the top 15 and Sonny Edwards last time out, really with consummate ease. So, you know, yeah, you'd always want a couple more. But that was the fight to really show that you're ready for Tarasas and Ioka and those kind of guys.

And what that show tonight was, that kind of performance tonight, he would have been stopped by those guys. you know and that's not you know you need that gut check sometimes now at 32 what do you do you know do you come back and say okay I'm going to come back stronger or do you say I've had a good run you know I've won the Olympics and you know but he's only had 10 bites so he's a tremendous talent and like I said the toughness that he showed was quite incredible but he wasn't good enough tonight and and the start you know even the ring walk it was all very fast you know what I mean like you know come out or got in a ring and then the bell goes and nightmare start and

And you never seen a galile like that. I mean, I've never seen him hurt. Well, no, I'd never seen him hurt, but I did right before the first bail, I said, and I'm not being an half the time. I don't need to, I'm too old to be an half the time. I wrote in my pad. He doesn't look right.

No, no, I felt that. You know, I looked at him, come on the stage. You kind of rushed into the ring. And even in the ring, you know, you're sort of asking him to switch on, and he's like, yeah, yeah. And during the fight, you know, his brothers are shouting out,

and he's, but obviously at that point, he's been buzzed and hurt. So who knows? I mean, that's something that sometimes you go back to the changing room after, and they say, well, we've had an injury, we haven't trained properly for three weeks, and it's like, oh, now you tell me, you know. And maybe there is something. Or maybe he was just beaten by the better man tonight.

We can't take away what Rodriguez done. And he was unbelievable. But you know what his bunsey? You know where these kids come from in Mexico. It's like they, he said to me all week, I'm going to win this far. I'm going to do whatever it takes. And they're in a different breed. And you've got to have the quality to beat them.

You can't stand and fight their fight because you're not going to win their fight. You know? I know you were talking earlier on after Connor Walker defended his British title and a great fight. I mean, he's a great story, Conor Walker.

In a business, a great story, he's a great story. And you said that it can change your life walking into a boxing chip. Well, with Mexicans, a fight like this, on a night like this, will change his life.

And it is, it's their life. I mean, we know, you know, I've seen across social media the support that Rodriguez has had this week from Mexico. He's quite well known over there. I mean, he's a former unified world champion under the managerial partnership of Eddie Raynoso and Team Canelo.

So, like, he's very well known over there, but you just know what you're going to get. And you've got out the quality to beat those guys, but you can't do it, like I said, fighting their kind of fight. Like, you can't think that you can stand in the trenches with those guys and tough it out with them because you're just not going to. You know, you've got to be smart, you've got to use your jab, you've got to work the body, you've got to show angles,

and Galah did none of it. He stood in front of him, he traded with his chin up in the air, he moved back in straight lines, He didn't invest in the body, but what he did do is show incredible heart to overcome a real rough ride in there, but there wasn't enough quality. And I tell you another thing to look out for in the future,

the slightly lower the lighten the mood, is when a Mexican gets in the ring with a T-shirt with 12 different sponsors on it, you know you're in trouble. Exactly, and the song as well, General Levy, incredible. I mean, it's like an old-school London garage track. I mean, that worried me in itself, you know? Hey, listen, thanks for much for your time.

Cheers, man. Thanks, Eddie Hearn there, and you could just hear in his voice that bit of emotion and it's been a long old journey with the Yafai brothers, remember. Khalid win world titles, Gamal winning European and Commonwealth titles, all on Eddie Hearn or matchroom shows

over the last probably 10 years. Eddie there talking about we had to match him fast. He was 32. Now that's a valid argument. With hindsight, perhaps those hard fights against those harder parties, especially that third fight in Aberdabwe, he wins a split over 10 rounds in his third fight. I mean, that's going to...

Listen, if he'd have won the fight, then it would have been brilliant match. make it. I say we're all geniuses after the event. I think, I mean, it was a test, but I think it was a fight too soon, because I thought he was going to win. Yeah, same bit. And he's right. He's 32. He's a flyweight. Also, he's an Olympic champion.

Cold War champion, all the European and world medals. They get match anyway, and fighters get matches hard than nowadays. They do it just as weird. Because they don't turn to import 18 anymore. They're to pro 25, 26. We will be talking about an 18 year on a moment. No, son, hold your fire. But when they're mature and

physically strong. So they don't have to get their man strength. He had it when he was before he turned pro. So you had to match him hard. It's just, that was just one step too far. That's the problem with me. Sometimes you get a step too far in your 12th fight. Now, in an eight rounder, which you just nick and then they go, hang on, they slow down a bit.

That's what they used to be, didn't it? In these 90s. We haven't got the benefit. We haven't got that, yeah. So, Beau, before we move on, we're here from Rodriguez. I couldn't resist doing it. Paddy hates, we use a translator, but I've got to. In summary, before we hear from Rodriguez,

Tell me, if you're talking to Galau, what are you talking about going forward? What sort of, what are you thinking? And no excuses have been offered, by the way. There's no, there's been no injuries, weight issues. He's a good fighter. He is a very good fighter, so he can still be competitive in and around that world level.

If he wins a world title, his in and around his weight division, it's phenomenal at the minute. That's the problem he has. Yeah. But also, what does he want at 32? I mean, if he stops tomorrow, what a career he's had. The biblical medalist, forget about the pros,

but it's all about money. And I've got to say the money, and I don't know any of this, but what I know quite often is, especially the lighter weights, once you lose, once you don't look like you're going to be the superstar that he thought you were going to be, you can knock a north or two of your next pay package. The money goes to the left and the right, not up.

Then your desire and your love for the sport, you know, wanes very quickly. No, not because, you're getting less money, just how you can be put aside quite quickly, And that's just how to approve of the sport is. So that might happen, he might want to go. They might want to reinvest in him. It's what the people around him want to do with him.

What he wants is one thing, but what they're willing to pay to do for him is another thing that might rather influence its decision to carry on or quit. Now before we hear from Rodriguez, let me just give you the raw stats. It went to 412. Rodriguez leaves with the interim WBC belt.

Three scores, 119, 108, twice, and 118-109. Anyway, as I said, I did catch up with Rodriguez and his translator. And this is what they said, I guess, in a Mexican nutshell. I'd almost forgotten what it felt like, you know, I was a champion back in 2014, but I almost forgot that feeling. So it's lovely to have that feeling once again to be a champion. Was he surprised that Galao stood up to his punches like he did

and just kept coming, trying? Yeah, I almost felt that, you know, what has this guy got inside him? He's like a robot. What has it been eating? You know, it's impossible to knock him down. And finally, as a Mexican, what does it mean to be the WBC champion, to have all of that Mexican boxing history? Yeah, as you just said, it means a great deal.

You know, as children, we dream to go into boxing and to win those belts. You know, and now I've got it, it feels fantastic. But this means that, you know, I won't stop. I'll get back in the gym. And my aim is to become, you know, the complete champion and get the full belt one day. So that was Francisco Rodriguez and his. translator. I love a little bit of translation

every now and again. Not every week, but you know a few times a year is fine. Barry, you mentioned earlier on about an 18 year old. Well, there was an 18 year old on the bill. A young woman called Tia Mai Aten. I saw her last year at the Harangay Box Cup and she had a couple of stoppages

and I just put stoppages X next to her name. She was fighting a woman called Sarah Ozargi from Hungary who admittedly had lost seven bouts. going in and won a couple, but she'd never been stopped, she'd never been hurt,

she'd never been dropped. She'd been in with some big, not so, not big, women are eight and nine. Anyway, Tia, absolutely destroyed her. Dropped her with one shot in the third round and then showed her a shot

and dropped her clean with another shot. I don't know if you've seen the knockout yet. It is quite, it's a, I know people say, but Bunchy she'd lost seven times, but I've seen her twice, and she'd never been remotely hurt.

And I saw her face as she walked back to the corner, at the end of each round. She had no idea what was going on. I'm flagging this little eight stone girl up, eight and a half stone woman up, girl 18 up, simply because who knows where we'll be in a year or two. That was a sensational debut.

And showing, the biggest criticism of women's boxing, like it is lighter weight, is they don't carry the power that gets a general sport, a general sports fan excited. Yeah, pricks the ears up at a general. That's where the heaviest get all their money

because people who don't watch boxing, because they want to watch that everyone get knocked out. Yes. But, so when you see a woman knocking someone out, how can you not get excited? But from my, in my scene, from my perspective, the way she sets up the shots. Yeah. Is what sets it apart to me already.

Early in her career. Okay, she's up against a journey woman. But, it looks, but again, someone who's in there not to get hit, not to get hurt. Not to get stopped because she's got fights. She's got fights booked all over Europe. Take that step to the side to get the finishing shot. It's fantastic.

That takes thought. And when you're young, the exuberance of youth means you rush your work all the time. We see that continuously. The fact that you take your time within that, when you've already heard someone, to get that finishing shot in, that screams class. Well, listen, I went back to the dressing room and spoke to her. It was great in the dressing room. There's only four people.

And I'm going to ask Brian Peters to keep a monitor and how many people there are when I go back an interviewer. There's an absolute nugget here because she seems to have solved boxing already. and you'll hear it when we play it. Anyway, here's Tia talking to me in the dressing room. First round, I come out, giving it my all, and I would come back, and I sat down, and I was like, I am not getting her out of there. She's way too strong.

She's that tough? Yeah, and she's eating my shots, and I was thinking, I know I hit hard. No, and I know I'd hit hard. And then I just come down then, I just thought, do you know what? If I can't stop her, at least make her look stupid when I'm boxing her. So I just get a nice win.

I threw my back hand, caught her. She just dropped, and I thought, yeah, come on then. So what was the lesson then? This is a question for you know. What was the lesson you learned there? The lesson I've learned today is don't look for a stoppage. A stoppage has come to you. Oh, you know what?

You're far too wise to be coming up with that after. 18 years old. Brian Peters, your manager's here. And I tell you're meant to be coming up with that after about 16 contests when you've tried too hard. You've already solved boxing in one fight? Literally. Do you know, I'm quite wise for the 18 years I've been living. Quite wise.

Did you always know that it would be boxing that you pursued once you got to sort of once you became an adult as such. Yeah, I knew I was always going to be a boxer, like, even in school, like, I wasn't very good at school. So I just always, my excuse was literally I was going to become a boxer, so I never used to listen. And thankfully, he's actually worked out because otherwise I'd be at the job center trying to find a job. So just just film in on some of the other forms of combat or martial arts or whatever it is that you've done to you? Because I don't want to name them if you haven't done them. Just film in on the stuff you've done.

I've done kid boxing, wighty, MMA, K-1, Jiu-Jitsu and boxing. And you started, you must have started very young then. If your last, if your last loss was eight, see, you started at six. And did you, why did you start that at six? Were you just one of those kids bouncing off the walls? No, me and my sister used to fight all the time. And then my dad, that's it. Yeah, both of you get in there.

Get in the gym? Yeah. And actually, she used to beat me up to be there. Can you beat her up now? No, she still gives it to me. I'm scared of her. So she's bigger than you? Yeah, she's bigger than me, but she's younger.

Now just quickly It's really lovely to talk to you to you Thank you Who's your boxing hero? Do you have a boxing hero? Tell the truth Honestly I actually do not watch boxing That's right

I'll let you in a secret So many boxers don't watch boxing But I remember I saw a comment And because I said I didn't watch boxing Someone commented saying Oh well that's not good is it But I don't like watch a book So not for Ozzy

But let's say in 10 fights time You're boxing a name Will you watch some of her fights on tape to get a feel of it? I watched the one I was fighting today. I watch her fight. Yeah, I watch people I'm fighting. I like to watch what they're about. But everyone fights different each fight, so you don't know what they're exactly going to be, but you've got a rough idea. Well, I think you might make people fight differently. Yeah, I think I do.

You know people are going to be really jumping all over you because you dropped the woman twice and you threw good shots and you're only 18. You're ready for that? Yeah, hopefully get my Instagram followers up now, though. Because Brian's always on me about getting my followers are. Listen, you're in good company. It's been a delight tonight talking to you. And it was great watching you. Thank you.

And those girls are tough girls. She'd never been stopped. And she had no idea what was going on, did she? No. But yeah. Luckily you did. Teer, talk young. Thank you very much. So when she said there, I'm going to repeat it.

When she said there, I went back to the corner and I said, what's wrong? This woman, I can't hurt her. I'm hurting everyone. dropping everyone. Why isn't she dropping? And they said, take your time. And I said, so what have you learned from that? And she said, not to go looking for a knockout. Well, how many fighters have we approached after their 10th, 15th, 20th? And they've been frustrated, like Daniel Dubois, even Moses Italmer. And it's taken them 10, 12 fights to realize, if you try and knock

someone out, you don't. If you relax, you do. So little tear, 18 years away, she solved, she solved it after the first fight. Unbelievable. So I've, to have that maturity already to just See, people tell you this and you go, okay, then you don't do it. She put in the practice in the third round. If you got fast hands, you go, you don't need to try to throw fast. You are fast.

Yeah. Just relax. You go, yeah, okay. And then you go, yeah, you want to get as fast as you possibly can. I used to, I used to faint. I used to faint all the time. But when I was younger,

I'd faint so fast, then no one saw it, so it didn't work. Invisible faint? Barry Jones in his invisible faint. I did my invisible knockout. But you know what I mean? But if you slow it down to normal,

it's brilliant. It works. And if she understands that already, but that makes her a danger. I mean, yeah, exactly. But what you have to do as well now with her is,

and this is a tricky part, because there's not loads of fighters in women's box. They're not very serious. So you can't stop her development. Yeah. But you can rush her to the top very well. Because, you know, she ends up being an abandon weight, featherweight,

no, whatever, anywhere around. that way she was a lightweight last year at the the at the Haringer Box Cup by the way you find out of often we're in box so they start training really professionally the weight strips of him yeah and then but she ends up a light a lightweight or even even a little whatever she ends up all those words she's big out for or loads of yeah even though even though no we've got to tear us around us at the end their careers we think yeah but there's still loads of talent coming through I mean

look imagine her now in and it's silly to say it but I said this about a lot on price like imagine it in 80 minutes time boxing Sasha Jonas and it almost took that long. But I mean, imagine her now with Ellie Scotney, Sky Nicholson. They were the same way, the same way. They'd be fantastic, weren't it? And that's what they need.

They need competition. So that was Saturday night. Galalia if I lost these unbeaten record and we were introduced to Tia Mai Aiton and it was a beautiful introduction. Now, coming up in July, a little bit of any other business here, Chris Eubank Jr's appearing in front of the British, in front of the British Boxing Border Control's Southern Area.

To answer some questions, it is a hearing as such. And it's about the references to him using a sauna in lead up to Ben and Ben and Eubank. His fight with Connor Ben. Now, he has been fined already £100,000 for the egg incident, and he did have to pay a forfeit to Connor Ben for being above the weight. Some of the figures you're seeing out there ignored him. That wasn't a fine, it was a forfeit, it was a private deal. However, so he's been called in front of the board.

Now, in front of the southern area. Now, I'm just going to point something out. Using a sauna isn't illegal under any British boxing board of control order. It isn't a rule that says you can't use a sauna. But there's equally not a rule that tells you you can't stick a horseshoe in your glove. You just can't do it and you don't do it. So the way it works with saunas is quite simple. Is that if you end up using a sauna on the day of a weighing to cut weight,

drastically reduced weight to mate weight. Then you're at risk of being pulled up to the ball because it's been explained to you when you turn professional that sauna use at that point in a fight is absolutely not on. It doesn't help you. It causes massive rehydration, which leads to other things. Now, it's been pointed out to me that recently an opponent a Mexican came in to fight Adam Azim

and he came in and he was pulled off the bill because he published some pictures on his Instagram of him in a sauna. So he fell foul of the board's regulations. But I say it's no specific rules. So Eubanks is going to have to go up. Explain why he was 40 minutes late for the actual way in itself and talk about his use of the sauna.

There's nothing against a fighter using a sauna as recovery tool, but for cutting weight, not advisable, simply because of the rehydration, Barry. Yeah, and it should be a straightforward conversation. You just don't do it. But, I mean, when you're having to get down, to an unnatural weight, which he was, then every little bit of helps. And sometimes

that's your only option. Yes. But it shouldn't be an option. Yeah. That's that what they're saying. It's a danger. We know there's causality, rehydration is a bad thing for injuries. I sort of sympathise with the British boxing because they're in a real

stick of a situation, but they have especially a big fight and a big name, they have to show, listen. Because if they let him get away with it, then what message that to that does that bring to every other fighter? Absolutely, yeah. We get the same with all these drug tests and all that.

If you don't penalize the guys, the bigger names, for fear of being sued and blah, blah, blah, then all the guys at lower weights will do it as well. So go in front of the sovereign area. I've got to say, though, if they knew this information, this is the other tricky path, if they knew this information before the fight happens,

then by their own ruling maybe or whatever you call it, because there's not a law. Guideline. Guideline. They should pull him out of the fight. Yes. not going to do that because it's a massive fight but I mean you know I mean you can't say we're going to penalise you after for why you penalise me for because there's a duty of care

not just with us for yourself you must you have you have a duty of your own self but then you go where was your duty of care because I went for the sauna yeah and you let me fight anyway let's get him in front of the board let's get all that the actual facts pointed out whether it was when sauna was mentioned where it was published and whether he talked about actually doing it on the day of the way also as it was pointed out to me they need to work out why he was that 40 minutes late and then of course he said he was denied access to a toilet so there's a few unknowns that we might have known the bottom line is just to point point out using a sauna as a recovery tool

is not illegal under the border control however it should never be used under any circumstances to lose weight and that's because of the dangers inherent with B hydration Go on, Bell. Then you can never, if a boxer doesn't say I'm losing weight in the sauna, you can never prove he is losing me. Can you just go, no, I'm recovering.

And they say, well, what are you skipping? And we're in a sweat in all fairness. But managers and coaches are also given the same talk on the dangers of drastic weight loss in the sauna. So, of course, a manager and a trainer could deny any knowledge of it,

and one might take the fore. it needs to be slightly clarified or perhaps it needs to be made. It's a sticky situation. It is tricky. It is tricky. Anyway, I want to do a bit of any other business because it's the sort of stuff that you particularly like and you know and you know where I'm going with this. Well, okay, first of all,

I'm going to deal with I'm not going to talk about Alex Krasik and Alexander Usik splitting because that's their private business and there's already too many rumors. I just say, Alex Krasik and Usik together, I love that. We'll get some more information on it later on, but meanwhile, there's 50 rumours out there.

If I mentioned one of those rumors on 5 Live on BBC, we'd be sued. So we can't. They're no longer working together. They were a great team, though. But they were a great, unbelievable team. I'm going to start this Friday in Wichita when Jake, sorry, when Deonti Wilder returns to the ring, 39 years of age, 48 fights, 43 of them, he's won, 42 by knockout, lost his last two, looked bad against Parker, looks worse against Zhang when he was stopped in the fifth round,

fighting a reliable old-school journeyman who's lost five of his 29 called Tyrell Anthony Herndon. Are you for or against Wilder continuing a fight? And we saw from ringside the last two disasters. I'm indifferent, Steve, because, you know, I mean, it depends on what he's like. I mean, if he goes out there with the same conviction that he once had, then he can be a problem for anybody. He does the guy in around, he's back in the mix.

He's never technically that good anyway. You always made mistakes. fell over his feet but he dined out on his power without any fear of what was coming back that's the truth of it but in the last few fights

he hadn't been that way at all no so you know if he's the same fight we've seen the last couple of fights then I mean he's just going to be slipping on a slope

until then becomes a danger for his health yeah and then in these people around it will be really strong I mean I've earned enough money so you have but I understand

he's still big money to earn but you know I mean if he doesn't look good in this fight then he may he may and Dave Allen is a fight that all of a sudden is almost a matchable fight. I mean, Dave Allen's been mentioned. Also, a fight with TKV for Dave Allen, British title fight.

That's another one. Dave Allen's been everywhere with it. Aaron Gaye Box Cup. He was in Birmingham on the weekend. It's all over the place, Dave Allen. The whole thing is, because him and, no, matching Dave Allen against DeAndreisleis is ludicrous right now. Yeah.

Because one's box at World Level. One hasn't. That's just a fact. But, I mean, if he shows another decline against a guy who's not that good, no. Who Dave Allen might be? It would be. It would be, yeah. Then you go, oh, well, we can match that.

And it's a reasonable match. But that's Deonti Wilder. Once upon a time he was the world heavyweight champion, nine defenses, nine knockouts, one that's titled in 2015. And him and AJ didn't fight for a couple of years. He is talking about fighting age. Well, he would be. He'd be talking about fighting all the big people forward of big money. Let's go to Saturday night, Anaheim, California. The return of 39-year-old.

Chavez. How about that? Junior, please say junior. Chavez, Jr. 39 years of age, almost identical record. to Deunti Wilder, and he's fighting Jake Paul. And do you know Jake Paul's opponents, right? He's only, honestly, the mad thing is,

he's only fought whatever it is 12 times, but I think he's only fought 11 different men, and the age is 40, 40, 42, 49, 39 and 58. He's been the most brilliantly matched fighter in history, and everyone knows I'm a big Jake Paul fan. I don't know why people get upset with him. I really don't. He's still a novice,

and he's having a laugh. He plays a fortune. It's the whole thing about Jake Paul. It's a weird thing. I've changed my view a little bit. But like, you can't blame him. Blame the sport.

Absolutely. Because he's allowed to do it. But the thing is, no, he's a favourite against Chavez, Jr., I think. Because just the activity, the age, is natural size,

all these things. And Chavez Jr. doesn't live a good life at all outside the ring, so I don't think. But he might have been, he might have been living a good life

for the last few months. He might have been. But he's got to. And will that still be enough? But if Jake Paul beats him, then he's been a former world champion. Yeah. Who beat Andy Lee? Who boxed only a year ago?

And who, by the way, has boxed in and around the weight that this fight's made at? Yeah, exactly. So, you know, then we get to a point where we've got to start shutting up about him and say, he's not a real box, not real boxer. Because then he's, you know, the thing is, when he's not boxing, when he's not boxing boxers, you can say it. When they're ex-MMA people, whatever good they were, in their sport.

It's irrelevant. Yeah. Or basketball players. Yeah. You know, then he finds the smallest basketball player on the planet, by the way, Nate Robinson.

But, you know, but, I mean, like, brilliant matchmaking about it. It's just brilliant. The whole thing's been brilliant. But he, but he's clever enough to see,

and you'll do enough research to say, and just say, for the argument's sake, you go, well, Anthony Joshua's match clever. Yeah. And they go, what do you mean?

He boxed it everywhere. He boxed it. And they go, name one fighter, he box in their peak. Yeah. And all of a sudden, someone said that to me,

And I thought, Joshua, my one fight you boxing his peak. And I love Josh, he's been great for boxing. But... And you go, one box, your boxing is absolute peak. Who he's beat. And you go, hmm, you're right. Crisco fight was great. And he was great in it.

But he wasn't in his peak. Yeah. I mean, you only fight you're wrong at the all time, but I'm not criticizing him. But, I mean, Jake Paul's clever enough to reference things like that. You listen to this and he'll reference it straight away. But I mean, all of a sudden, you go, well, you know, you can't blame him. what's that thing don't hate the hate the game not the player or something like that

I know I know going to be cool phrases but it's that isn't it like you've let me in I'm doing what other fighters do and it seems to me he's big crime and we will finish after this it seems like we'll talk on a long time about J-Paul his biggest crime is that once he beats these guys

in front of enormous audiences and making absolute fortunes and paying everybody on the undercard record amounts of money including paying people on the undercar when fights are cancelled yeah he does all the good things Jake Paul. When he actually does that, he seems to me his big crime is when he gets interviewed in the ring, he says, I'll fight Joshua, I'll fight Canello, I'll fight well. And no, in all fairness,

he's being, he's being condemned for his gob. Listen, that's enough, Jake Paul. Barry, it's been a delight and a pleasure. It's been absolutely brilliant. Coming up in the next few weeks, monumental nights. New York, Katie Taylor, against Amanda Serrano on a Jake Paul promoted show and all of the women on that bill. So an all women bill at the garden. The following night we're going out to the tennis centre for a series of fights, including Edgar Balanga. We talked about Amelioran against East London, Sam Zashiris. I like that. And then in a couple of weeks' time at Wembley, 90-od thousand, Alexander Usik, we mentioned earlier,

against Daniel Dubois for all of those heavyweight bills. A rematch of the fight that Barry and I, and just a few members of the British media watched in Poland a couple of summers ago. Barry, it's been a pleasure, it's been a delight. So that was it. We had someone in Saudi who didn't actually get us anything, but he was there on the ground. And then I was at Galau and I don't like that because I like Galah.

I don't like to see Galau you look using. It's an absolute delight watching Tia, my Aiton. And it's always a pleasure debating things that are being debated at a border control and bringing you one or two facts and figures. I've been Steve Bunce and this has been a very special five live on the road at DeMartino's Italian restaurant. I'm Cow Walker.

And I'm Michael Brown. And welcome to the Cow Walker podcast. Walker, Fathers is brilliant. You can ask his anything about football. our careers or just random everyday stuff. What did you buy with your first ever paycheck as a footballer? My first call. It was a wireage.

Renal clear. How much was yours? 13,000. 13,000. How things changed, Kyle. Right, shall we move on? The Kyle Walker podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds.