5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - The Surgeon

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Is it time for Ben Whittaker to kick on? The Olympic silver medallist has signed with Matchroom Boxing and sits down with Buncey to reflect on the journey that’s brought him here. We also hear from Richie Woodhall, who coached him in the build-up to the Olympics, as well as insights from his trainer Andy Lee and his promoter Eddie Hearn.

This is Five Live Boxing. Now on Saturday night in Derby, Fraser Clark and Jamie TKV will fight on BBC 2 for the vacant British heavyweight title. And about 40 miles away in Birmingham, A38, M6 Toll, M42, if you want a bit of advice, Ben Whittaker will make his matchroom debut when he fights Benjamin Gavazi. It is time for Whitaker to deliver. It's that simple, and he knows it. Ben joins me. His promoter Eddie Hearn joins me. It's a big Saturday. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So another week and another Saturday night of fights. This business waits for absolutely nobody.

Well, Richie Woodall kept me waiting exactly one minute, which I think is acceptable to be perfectly honest with you. In fact, he might claim he was only 38 seconds late for our allotted time to talk about this week's subject. A man that Richie knows an awful lot about. We're going to talk about Ben Whittaker, but first of all, Rich, how are things with you? Yeah, things are good, Steve. As the squad looking. The squad's looking pretty good, pretty sharp, actually.

We've got some good kids coming through. So, yeah, it's an exciting Olympic cycle and Commonwealth Games next year, which is a big one for everyone. So, yeah, it's looking all right, mate. Rich, I know you've been up at the squad for a million, trillion years, but do you still say at the palace, do you still occasionally say, Crystal Palace instead of like when you say

how's the squad at the palace. Do you still occasionally say you're giving your age your way on? We're both give him our age of way. Because obviously the national squad when I was involved it was always Crystal Palace. I love the place I did. I really love Crystal Palace. A lot of people hated it but I love getting down there because the sparring was

brilliant but yeah very much very much so I do get confused occasionally but Sheffield's our home now. And it's been the home forever and a day now it was Ben Whitaker's home for a long while in the lead up to the Tokyo Olympics. And I remember coming up in about the April or the May of that year.

And there were all sorts of fighters in the team, Pat McCormack, Peter McGrawl. Massive things were fancied about Peter McGrawl, Lowen Price, obviously. And Ben was in the frame, but he wasn't one of the top four or five. But you kept saying to me, Stevie, Stevie, Stevie, Stevie. Yeah, well, obviously, you know, I was involved a lot with Ben in his Olympic cycle, you know, being one of the coaches. And obviously he's from our region. so he's from the Midlands and the West Midlands

so I was always keeping my eye on him he was tall, rangy very, very skillful there was definitely something about it it was a lot quieter then there as well he didn't say a lot to anyone but yeah because he's talking in the ring as they say in the train exactly yeah

and because he had really good fighters around him people like Pat McCormack and Galah and Galal of course both of whom had been at an Olympics already this was their second Olympic There was their second Olympic cycle so he could

he could sort of rely on them and get help from them as well in terms of experience but he was totally a different character to what he is now he was a very quiet lad but he was very skillful I always remember him taking him on the pads

many times and everything that I was showing him and he would just take to it like a duck to water mate he was very very skillful indeed and because he's so tall you know I always knew that he would fill out

but yeah he had that height and reach over them, but he had the skill with it, that's the main thing. Now, the reason why we're talking about Ben Whittaker is obvious if you've been following the boxing business for the last two or three weeks. Ben's announced that he's left boxer and he's done a deal with match room and he's going to be making his match room de zone debut, November the 29th in the West Midlands in Birmingham against a German called Benjamin Gavazi. That will be his first fight and what he tells me, Richard, and we're here from Ben in a moment

as he's playing catch-up. And if you think about some of his main rivals, they're all four, five, six and seven years older. Ben's only had ten fights. Most of his rivals have had 20 or even 30 fights. So he has got some time to come. And at 28, he's still a kid, isn't he? He's still a kid, but...

There's a good butt there. I heard that. I just feel, Steve, I don't know whether he will actually move up and wait, because he's a tall kid, you know. You think he could do Cruiser? Yeah. I really do. That's been on my mind for a long time with Ben.

He's a tall kid. He may go to Cruiser. But yes, he feels like he should be up there with him. I think he's got the skill. But the way he's... He's big enough for... He's big enough for Cruiser, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

That's what I'm sort of thinking. I'm thinking he's definitely big enough for Cruiser. It's all he is. And I think eventually he may go to Cruiser. The way he started off his pro career, Steve, it really surprised me because, obviously, he understands the business. It's, you know, boxing, amateur boxing,

he's more or less a sport, isn't it? But professional boxing, it's a sport entertainment business. And he understands that. You know, he's got millions of followers now. You're talking about some of the stuff he's done that's upset people. Exactly, yeah. Let's just call it the flash stuff. The flash stuff.

Which, massive asterix warning coming, it's not Ben. That's just what he does in the ring. That's just what he does, Steve. And it was very surprising to me because I'd never really seen that side of it. Where did it come from? Yeah, it was incredible, really. But, you know, and I've bled. I do really believe that he understands the business in that sense.

And this is why he's going to be a bit like, I mean, I love Chris Eubank Senior. But to a lot of people, he wasn't, he's a cup of tea. Chris Eubank Senior, Steve, he was a Marmite type of character. And I think Ben may develop into that sort of a character, but there's no doubt about it, he's extremely skillful and he's a very good boxer. And people sometimes forget now, especially after that massive and brilliant arrival of Chris Eubank Senior at the first Conner Ben and Chris Eubank Jr.

And how loved and adored he is. Well, you and I lived through, you were boxing at the time. I was writing about it at the time. He was genuinely hated. Absolutely. It wasn't pantomime booze. People really, really, let's get that right.

And I tell you, people in the business, particularly dislike Chris Eubank. We sometimes forget that. Yes, and obviously, there was a lot of people that wanted to see him get beat. And beat badly. Yeah, you know.

know, but it's amazing the love that people show for him now. And the way you turn those people, towards the end of his career, everyone seemed to be a Chris Eubank senior fan. Do you think that was the back-to-back Carl Thompson fights? Oh, absolutely. When he jumped past Light Heavyway from Super Middle to Cruzeaway and went toe to toe with one of the great British fighters

from the last 50 years, Carl Thompson. Both fights, you watched them through your fingers. They were legendary fights. Yeah, they were massive fights. You fought in any of those undercards? I didn't fight on the undercaste I don't think I did No I didn't but obviously I remember them

Because when I was boxing And like I say I was always a Eubank fan anyway Because I really admired him I thought he was a very good fight Good fighter, a very tough man And when he went to cruiser against Carl Thompson Who as you say

He's one of the best cruisers we've ever produced So yeah it was an incredible sort of jump And he turned people Who were totally against him They loved him in the end And they do now So that's a bit where Ben is To be perfectly honest with you

He doesn't really want to change and become more orthodox. He loves what he's doing and I think he realizes. Anyway, which, hold on a second. But you know what, Steve, he's a really likable character. He's a likable fellow, Ben is. When you speak to him. But this other Ben works really well because he's a bad. He's an unfashioned resting hill, you know.

Now, we know that's not him. Anyway, I managed to, hold on a second, which I managed to catch up with Ben and was having a chat with him to try and get a sense of two things. How excited he is about the move. and also how frustrating the time it's been for him. Things slowed down, of course, because what was going on. But like you said, back home, near enough the same arena,

decent opponent, decent title on the line. So great way to end the year and hopefully then to 2026 active. What I'd like to do, Ben, is take you back to Tokyo. You're in the final. You get the silver medal and you're kind of annoyed because we have a little bit of this, a little bit of that. You could have got a goal. I mean, you know, that doesn't mean you're robbed.

It means that you know, you've got a few things you could have done. And you could have gone. It doesn't matter. You've got a silver. By the way, that's still an elite club. After you get out of the ring then, when did the offers, I'm going to take you back. It's a bit of history here.

You and I can do a bit of history. When did you first start getting offers? Did you go to America? Were you signing elsewhere? Were you doing this? How did you? Was it you and Tony processing and stuff? How did you deal with it all?

Because there was a lot of pressure on you? Yeah, it was a big, big world win, actually. I actually went to the Olympics. It was one arm. I tore more rotator cuff. So it was a whirlwind if it was going to go to the Olympics. But I just knew I had the talent. to go there a medal, so I did that.

But halfway through the journey, people's messaging me already from the way I was performing. I was like, okay, we're getting a bit of traction here. Then, of course, I lost the Olympic final. It was more on my own part. As a boxer, the judges is, the judges that. I just knew I should have done a little bit more, but I've learned from that now.

But as soon as I finished, it was like a world toy. It was ridiculous. But for me, I just went literally back to my old little home, spoke to my dad, asked for his advice, and we went out to people in our own time. I sorted out my shoulder. Not urgent, not desperate. Yeah, that's it because at the end of the day,

just finished the Olympics. It was still like COVID time. What was the rush? We knew the offers would be there. So sometimes when you rush, you get it wrong. So for me, I spoke to everyone, probably three, four times. And then I made the move to Skyen Boxer.

Yeah. And at that time, you know, Ben Chillon was collecting other fighters, Karis Artenstorn medalist, Lauren Price medalist, Fraser Clark medall. So that was a good place to be at that time. You've left Ben Shalom now. done the deal, you've done a deal with Eddie, you're going to be fighting for Matrim, fighting for

Eddie. But you'd always kind of stayed friendly with people if you were at a show and you saw Eddie or you saw Frank. Well, you talked to people, didn't you? You weren't, you weren't like in some kind of, you know, weren't in a war with anybody. Yeah, of course. Sometimes people imagine that's what it's like. Yeah, yeah, some people are a little funny like that, but for me, there's nothing personal. At the end of the day, it's a sport and it's a business. Even now with my new adventure, I still thank Ben Shalom and box of what they've done. They opened up the door. It was a great couple of years with them. And if I saw, see them at shows now.

I'll shade the hand and thank them again. But for me, to excel in my career, I thought this was the right move. We've always been in talks with Eddie and Frank and stuff like that, but this was the perfect time to make the move. Because last year, when we were in Saudi before the first Liam Cameron fight, both Frank and Eddie were really praising you. So I'm assuming they were talking.

I'm assuming they were good. And I saw them sort of talking to you and they were smiles. That's the only thing that's gone wrong really in your pro career was that fight, the whole part of that fight, does build up to the fight, the fight itself, the ending. You redeemed yourself magnificently earlier this year when you walk through moving with Andy Lee and walked through Liam.

What do you remember from Saudi? And how low were you, Ben? Because I haven't really talked to you about this. Because you seem fairly on the floor to me, son, if you don't mind me saying so. It was a very tricky part of your career, of course. You never want a blip like that, but it's a blip that I needed.

I came from a household where money was enough, to us really. My mom worked two jobs. Dad worked two jobs. My brother was a raw marine. So I was like kind of like an only child really. And you never want to go to your parents, ask for stuff. So when I started getting my own little bit of money from G.B. It was the best thing since sliced bread.

It wasn't the best. It was the best things in sliced bread. And when you turn professional, I had a very good viral win. A lot of things was coming at my feet that I've never had. And it's easy to get lost in that. Was it too easy? It was too easy because like I said, you dream about some people messaging you dream about the opportunities you get

and I was getting it all up my feet so even little things out there the preparation wasn't right and it was a train train crash waiting to happen really my dad always said it but my dad didn't want to step in so for me it needed to happen I didn't want it to happen but it needed to happen

then rather than yeah then like because it could have been in a big a world title fight I could have got really badly hurt against the right opponent so it was frustrating it was annoying but I come back the way I'm supposed to and it's just

put a bit of smoke up my ass, shall I say. Just to say... Just to boot up a job. Just to say, like, boxing is real. You know what I mean? I've got the skill. I do make you look easy. But if you don't...

If you don't live the life or get lost in the lights, somebody else will come behind. Did you know, Ben, on the day of the fight, or maybe on the walk of the fire, or maybe when you're in the corner in the ring before the fight, did you know something was wrong? Did you know that you may have looked like

or felt like you've done anything? But there was something missing in your head. Could you sense it, Ben? a lot of things through the whole week I didn't feel the best but you're a fire at the end of the day you're never going to say to someone I don't feel the best I just feel just get through you'll be fine and then

what happened happened but I look back and I was what was I doing if I maybe open my mouth and spoke to someone that wouldn't have happened but then maybe that would have carried on going because that fight wouldn't have happened I don't know I'm still this big I am I would have carried on going so for me it happened for a reason all things happened for a reason

and I think I'm in a better place are more cleverer and I took the craft more serious. I think all of those things are true. And after that, of course, you shifted and you move to Andy Lee, who's no nonsense trainer, got a good gym himself. He's not out there with a begging cap trying to get fighters. And it means being in Dublin, means being away. You're close to your family, I know that,

and close to your community in your area. How has the Andy thing developed now? Because when I spoke to you before, you hadn't had the fight together. Then, of course, you had the Lee and Cameron fight. How's that going with Andy now? Because he's a busy man. Yeah, very busy man. And when someone's busy like that,

to give them even five minutes of your time, it's amazing. But the real big compliment to me was after that fight, a lot of people had a lot to say. He was one of the first people to message me. He said, you're right, Ben. I know the talent you've got. I know how good you can be. Maybe if you just come over to Ireland,

have a couple days here and see if you like it. I thought, if he's reaching out like this, it says a lot, went over there. I tried other coaches as well, but went over there. And he was just the fact that he's been there and done it. He's got a great stable. He's very calm. He's not flashy.

The gym's like just an old Irish gym. I've been to it. It's everything you need. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm my gym. Yeah, my gym. I've got the high-tech this, my logo here, everything's great.

But you can get lost in it again. Where for me, he was literally just a ringer bag and Andy Lee there every morning. So you're really, Ben, you're just an old-fashioned fire, aren't you? Who just happens to be lively, who just happens to rub people the wrong way. He just happens to have a sort of split personality.

But you're just an old-fashioned. fire, aren't you? I mean it. I mean, don't tell him one, let's keep it secret. But you're just an old-fashioned fire. Of course, like I said, I grew up in a gym where my first gym was a school. You go to the school, you didn't even have a ring, you were just to put the ropes up. Two ropes.

Yeah, little things like that. So for me, boxing, that's how it should be. Of course, we're getting to the modern thing now where even me, I'm a bit flashy at times and this stuff. I've got the 50-50 persona. Sometimes I'm serious. Sometimes I'm arrogant or flashy. But for me, it makes me who I am, but I know right from wrong.

I've been brought up right so that's the main thing but you convert people when they meet you don't you in all the fairness I've seen all the time all that's one nice thing I like a lot of people I got a lot to say because they only get to see you for as long as you're on TV yeah but when I actually sit down with people and give them my time they know the real me and and he's not gonna make you know make you leave all the old Ben Witt to go behind is he because there's no need to exactly that's what he said he said I don't want to change it because the fault you are as a special fire but we just want to need and things up and add things and it was music to my ear At the end of the day, I didn't get the silver medal for nothing,

but the pro game is different. So for me, just add little things and neat and up things, and it makes me a better fighter. And just quick, let's throw it forward now. Where are we going to be in a year's time? Where are you and I go? Because right now, we're looking out. There's, you can see the curve in the Thames.

You can see Docklands over there. That's the East Enders far. Yes, that's the EastEnders. You know, if you've seen that East Enders East End. There's Belfast, the ship Belfast, the Tower Bridge is behind this building here. There's the, yard where are we going to be in a year's time hopefully in this room talking about what we're going to be

talking about for me um just how good the year's been how good the rankings are how good my performances are and here's the many more that's what we'll be talking about ben listen it's a pleasure and the delight talking to you're tom man so rich interesting there picking up what we were talking about just before we went into the interview with ben with him saying look i didn't have it i always didn't have it easy it wasn't in a fancy gym all the time the gym was in an old school there wasn't even a ring there was just a couple of ropes put up stuff that you're familiar with, because believe it or not,

people might not believe this, those gyms still exist, don't they? Of course they do. Yeah, in that Wolverhampton area and West Midland area, there's some really rough gyms,

Steve. Proper gyms, what we call boxing gyms of freezing cold. You know what I mean? Remember that gym you had? That gym in the old route, the old arch or whatever it was. Dreadful, ridiculous.

And remember we did that film in there and your dad? God bless his soul. Right, and me and you're in the ring, I was interview, we sit in the ring. It was just like satanta days or something. And when you're in the ring, doing like talking about the review of the year,

and we looked over to the left, it was freezing cold. And your dad and my son, Oscar, don't remember, they were standing, they'd open the fridge door, and they were warming their hands on the fridge. My dad was warming his hands on the fridge. Funny as anything, yeah, it was weird.

So that, them of the type of gyms that were speaking about, where you have to earn your heat, you have to train hard to keep warm. That's just the way it was. And Ben's from, that environment. Now, he was going smooth as a pro, not necessarily going great guns, but he was going smooth, one or two injuries and, of course, a little bit of, you know, the COVID still was

hanging around. Then he had that fight, the first fight with Liam Cameron, which didn't quite work out. He got it all wrong. He tried, he forgot to be Ben. He started to, he fought as a different kind of person, got embroiled, both fell out of the ring, a technical draw. So it was still a perfect record, but it was an ugly finish. Yeah, it was. And then, of course, he switched, trying And we'll talk about that in a moment because I'm going to I actually did catch up with Andy Lee.

So after that first Liam Cameron fight, Ben went to Dublin and joined Andy Lee whose gym is just going great guns. Now, if you remember, Rich, at that particular time, you know, there was a real, after that fight,

the first fight with Liam Cameron, there was a lot of hate director. I called up with Andy to try and just get a sense of what the plan is now and where Ben is on that plan. One of the main reasons he went with Matrim was the promise of activity structure in these fights. He needs to build, he needs to develop.

He's got a huge recognition and he's famous, but he needs to get that kind of steel about him. You know, an iron wheel. That we saw in the Cameron fight? Yeah, just where he builds up two or three, maybe three good victories and he feels invincible. And you get that sense that that's exactly what he needs as well. That's exactly what he wants, is that he wants to fight, he wants to fight regular. And I tell what there is, there's no shortage of names. Name British fighters, named American fighters.

No shortage of opponents once we get. Get rid of this guy on the 29th. This is a good guy. This is Gavazi. He's a very solid opponent. He's coming to win. He's 19-1, never been stopped. though first that one loss came early in his career

so he's coming to spoil the party but yeah we don't want to look too far ahead but Ben is a huge name and a huge talent and with the right activity the right momentum he can beat anybody in the world and you get the sense that Ben wants to go once to go is that going to be not hard but you know having to pull him back just a little bit

and rein him in and say no that that fight doesn't make sense this fight makes sense and then that fight makes sense yeah well just you know yeah there's a way of doing the thing has to be done you know you can't just jump in at the deep end even though his talent he could he could definitely mix it with the with the best in the world but when you've got a talent like that it has to be protected and done the correct way match him right and I said develop develop so when he does step up he's ready for them yeah and you get that sense of him he is ready and we forget Andy that was a silver medal and he could have

the final with just a little bit more work. It wasn't a bad decision, but he could have, and you know yourself as an Olympian, you know, a silver medal, get into an Olympic final and a great man against the odds and two or three of the fights as well. So, listen, he's, I don't want to, you know,

go into hype mode, but he's talented, when you're training him and watch him in the gym, it's exciting and it's a pleasure to watch, and there's not much he can't do, you know what I mean, So the job with him, for me, it's not more about teaching him how to throw a job or showing him this or that. It's about guiding him and having, it's more of a mental job and having their attitude. Almost like Emmanuel with Vladimir. I spend a lot of time talking together.

Talking, watching, talking, watching. Yeah, and building and programming the mindset. Get in his head, like, I must admit, I do see that with Ben is that. there is a, if there's a weakness, it is making his head stronger. Because he's certainly in the first Liam Cameron fight, you know, the whole thing, everything fell apart, the whole week fell apart. I don't think that's any secret. Any secret? Yeah, well, your preparation, everything shows out in the fight, your preparation,

and your mind frame at that time and your character. And if you're emotional or if you're, you know, a little bit stressed or whatever, it will show out in the fight. And so that's what I'm talking about, building him to be, that have that steal about him, where he feels invincible, going in, knocking guys out, even going 10 hard rounds and stopping the guy late in their fight, just building that kind of confidence where he knows he can do it. So it's Andy Lee there, holding back a little bit, but in private,

and even mentioning it there, you know, how much he writes Ben. Because once the rematch was announced, that was a different Ben Whittaker on that night, and we just walked through Cameron. Cameron had no idea what had happened. Yeah, totally. You know, Andy Lee's a very professional person. He was in the ring. outside the ring, gentleman and certainly knows his job and he's a very, very good trainer.

I think he's probably been the best thing that's happened to Ben Whittaker, to be quite honest with you, because the way Ben started his career, he's flashy, he's good, a lot of people like him, a lot of people don't like him, but that was Ben Whittaker. But I just feel, Steve, probably the social media side of the business, and it took his eye off the ball a little bit, and I think he got a little bit complacent. Ben, as good as admitted that in an interview. Exactly. You know, he wasn't, you know, he wasn't saying, oh, no, no, it was,

I was winning the fight against Kevin. He knew he had a bad night. He's big enough to admit it. And I think outside the ring, it really affected him. And I think what basically Andy Lee has done? Andy Lee has come in and said, and obviously they've said, listen, will you train Ben Whittaker? He's probably had a good sit down with him and said, look, I don't mind what you do in terms of your social media stuff.

You know, it's a sports entertainment. I understand that. But you have got to do what I say. In the gym. Yes, in the gym. And he's got him back on trust. That's what Andy does. He does that.

Emmanuel Stewart weights. It's my weight or your. gone. Exactly. You know, like Andy knows the game as well, but I think that's what's happened. You do it my way. You have got a graft and you've got to train and you've got to do what I say. If not, it's a non-starter

and I really believe that's probably the conversation that they had and Ben has said, yes, okay Andy, my fate's in you and I'll do it your way. And he's got him back on track, Steve. Because we know Ben looked at it. And he said he was a different fighter against Liam Cameron the second time. He was a different fighter in the rematch with Liam Cameron.

extremely different fighter, but it was still enough of the older bend, the fluent bend. You know, there's a mixture, there's a middle ground. You don't have to be all flashy over there looking out of the crowd and dancing and getting all those viral millions of hits. And at the same time, we don't have to prove anything. He got to the Olympic final. We haven't even mentioned this. He lost in the final, in the actual final at the Olympic Games.

That's one of the smallest clubs in the last 60 years in Great Britain. A man that's got to the Olympic final. What were we in? About seven men in, seven men in what, ten Olympics or something? Exactly. He had five fights in those Olympics and he come up against a couple of really good fighters. I look back actually. He's semi-final against the Russian KTiev in Man-Ket. He was meant to lose that. It was meant to lose that. What a tough kid that Russian boxer is. And he was brilliant. And Ben boxed absolutely superb.

And even won before that, he fought a very good Brazilian. I think it was like a three-two split, but that was a good win as well. Monroe or Munray or something like that the Brazilian was, but look back at it. It was a tough, tough fight. So he had five fights, and then he obviously fights the double Olympic champion,

Arlen, and Lopez, comes up short, but yes, he boxed absolutely tremendously well. And Steve, yes, he is back on track now. He has got the skills and you've got the talent. Andy Lee's the key here. But in that final, just to leave Andy Lee and leave the pro game inside,

in that final, Ben was annoyed of himself. He was annoyed. Because he could have done more. Yeah, he was good number. He lost, but he didn't get a hiding. You know what, Steve. And I understand what he was talking about.

I know. He was carrying a little bit of an injury throughout the Olympic Games. You know, we kept it under wraps. Hit it beautifully. Yeah, he boxed really, really well. He had a bit of a shoulder knock, most definitely. And he comes up short. You know, it's a close fight against Lopez, but he gets beat.

But I suppose, you know, there's a lot of people saying, well, look at him, he's very ungrateful for not winning that silver. Because he's only only won the silver. But I tell you what, that just shows you that the kids are out and out. winner, which was disappointed with himself. That was going to be in my next line. Absolutely. He's an out-and-out winner this kid. He gets a silver medal and he comes back to the dressing room like a favourite who's got beat

on a bad decision in the first fight and got like in Paris last year. All those guys coming back to the dressing room, Richard, me and you looking at each other. You know, and knowing that they were all expected to go a bit further and going out on splits and splits and splits and some had a bit left in the tank. Some didn't, some did. Absolutely, yeah. He was so disappointed and he just fought, he lost it. lost a split decision to a double

Olympic champion. So it was a tremendous performance for the condition he was in, because he wasn't 100%. I'll tell you that for nothing, Steve. He was not 100%, but he boxed really, really well. And yeah, it was a great silver medal that he won. Now the plan, Rich, was to get a

nice quiet interview with Eddie Hearn and the match room promoter and the man that's done the deal with Ben Whittaker. I mean, it's no shock and we heard it there from Ben earlier on, that he had basically put a deal in place with Match Room before signing with Boxer a few years ago. Anyway, Eddie has always liked him, has always talked about him. As has Frank Warren. Frank Warren never made him an offer, but there were

conversations between Frank's son George and Ben. In the end, Ben decided to go with Ed. Now, the plan was to sit somewhere quite like we are now, but I had a brainwave and I decided to come up with a ridiculous idea of going to York Hall when it's absolutely sold out to try and do a sensible interview with Eddie Hearn. I apologise in advance. I don't know what I was thinking, but it was a lot of fun. Here I am with Eddie talking about Ben.

I think we're talking about Ben. Not that you can hear much of it. Yeah, I mean, when I originally wanted to sign Ben Whittaker, I knew he had a good personality, but I wanted to sign him because of the quality of his amateur pedigree. I mean, he was an outstanding amateur, a guy that many believe would go on and win world titles, but also more than that, Olympic silver medalists as well.

We actually agreed to sign him, about three years ago. We shot a promo. Is this true? Yeah, it's true. And then someone came in with a big offer and we said, you've got to take it, really,

to be honest with you. He took it and now we're here. We always joke that one day we'd be together. Now we are together. And I'm so excited. I think we've got the hottest thing in British boxing. November 29, he's back in Birmingham.

But he's a guy that's an unbelievable showman. But he's also a guy with tremendous pedigree and ability. Yeah. I mean, not because he's a massive name and a massive brand. and he's got a huge profile, I'm in because I believe he can be a world champion. And at 175 pound, it's not easy to do that.

We've got to build him in the Royal War. He's only had 10 bites. And he's never really boxed quality opposition yet. We're going to step him up nice and slowly, give him the international pedigree and experience that he needs, fight him in the States, and make this kid a global superstar. And when I look at Ben, I almost see there's two people.

There's Ben, the showman, the fighter. Then there's the other kid who's the mummy's boy, who's the nicest guy. world. It's quite ridiculous. He's a man of faith. He's a very nice man, but he's also a showman. He knows how to entertain. It reminds me a lot in a way of NAS and those guys. Some don't like him. Someone are tuned in to watch him get beat. And many will tune in to watch him win, but you'll tune him and that's key. And the bottom line is, as I said to him when I was talking to him, he's like an old-fashioned fighter who just likes to be a showman. When he settles

down like he did against the Liam Cameron in that fight, that's a different boxer. Yeah, but a lot of that is to open up gaps to frustrate the opponent, to get them to break down mentally in the ring as well. The guy knows what he's doing. Like I said, he's a world-class fighter, and I'm looking forward to the journey. So that's Eddie Hearn there, and what Eddie's fancying is this fight against the Gavasi on November the 29th, and then out early, they're out two or three times next year, maybe something really prominent in the summer,

then something towards the end of the year. Frank Smith's also of matchrooms, also talked about it. No shortage of British light heavyweights. No shortage of big names. No shortage of men that can fight people. Obviously, coming up in a couple of weeks' time, we've got Anthony Yard against David Benavides for the world title. There are fighters.

There are light heavyweights all over the place. So what would you like, Rich? Where would you like to see Ben in the next? Let's say 12 months, three fights. What would you like? Well, he's only had one fight this year. He's obviously got a new deal now. He's got a box, Steve, at least three to four times.

times a year. Without a shadow of a doubt. He's only had 10 fights now. So he needs to box next year four or maybe five times, Steve. That's interesting. Let's get him out there. I think what he's got to do as a fight now is look at the people like the Prince Nasim Hamads of this world, who had all that flash, who was so exciting the ring,

but they could deliver. And they did deliver. And Nas used to deliver. He did all the flashiness, but he used to train hard. He used to really train art. I remember to speak to Errol Bama Gray. That was kind of a secret really, wasn't in the back. Yes.

People don't realize. He lived and trained like it for. In the gym, it's six in the morning. Absolutely. First one in last one out. He used to train really hard. I think if Ben can take a leaf out of Prince and Assam's book, the flashiness or the social media,

get on with it, do what you want, but do the graft in the gym. Great man behind him now, Andy Lee. And I think we'll see the best of Ben Whittaker now. Can he go all the way, Steve? I certainly think he can do. He won an Olympic silver medal. People who get around that Olympic football.

final, you know, they're going to go on, if they get the head down, they could go on to world honours as a pro. He's got the right team behind him. I think he's got a very good promotional deal now, so there's no reason why he can't go all the way to the top. A bit of patience. You know, let's be patient with the kid. What weight will be the key for me? I think he might even go to Cruiser yet. Okay, we'll see. We'll see what Ben does. I know one thing, Rich. You know, I know that, you know, we're talking about those dance moves that he's done in a ring that have made him a viral sensation. Now, there are some pluses to that in the sense that people do know who he is.

You know, there were 30, 40, 40 really good fighters in this country, 7 or 8 of them, like heavyweight. And I would put Ben right up there. I mean, listen, he's not as well known as Tyson Fury. Don't get me wrong. He's not as well known as Anthony Joshua. No. But in that travelling chasing pack of 5 or 6, he's well above where he should be.

And that is down to the high profile from those major, quote, social media events. And of course he's probably better well known than a lot of of boxes in his own weight division who are much more experienced than him. Absolutely. Because of what he's doing. So, you know, like I say, he's got to keep a lid on it to a certain degree. But at the end of the day, as long as he does the work, and I'm pretty sure, I know from knowing Andy Lee what Andy Lee's standards are, he will make him train hard, he'll make him graft. And that's when we're going to see the best Ben wet to go.

Yeah, see, that's the secret bit about Ben, as I said to him in the interview. I said, Ben, you're just an old-fashioned fighter, really. You're just masquerading or something modern. No, you like a gym. You like the kind of gym that Richie Woodall likes. Those places in the black country, those ridiculous places in Dudley and Bilsston, places that people don't think exist. I've been in those gyms.

And they're dreadful, brilliant, whatever words you want to use. Anyway, Richie, it's been a delight and a pleasure, as always. So Ben Whittico is now with Matchroom. He'll fight on November the 29th in Birmingham. Then he'll come back next year. There's plenty of light, heavyweights for you. And I can tell you this now, in the next 18 months, it will be in three or four really big fights. It's always a pleasure to talk to Ben Whittaker because I like the difference.

I like the difference between the perception that exists and the man I've come to know over the last five or six years. Anyway, that's another pot done. We don't mess around us off to get some food now, Rich and I. That's what we do. We've got good expenses at this place, don't we? Anyway, I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. You About? Join me, Roman Kemp, and me, Tom Gwelen, for our weekly catch-up, otherwise known as a podcast. I gave you this nice thing that you're, like, really talented and I want this talent, I want this, you know, this thing that you get to do.

You could have chosen, oh, Ro, I really like your confidence so good. No, I like the fact that you're really lame and you get excited over cards. I like that. Yeah, cheers me. You About. Listen on BBC Sounds.