5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Usyk v Dubois 2: Fight Review

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

Is Oleksandr Usyk one of the greatest boxers of all time? After witnessing another masterclass from the Ukrainian, Richie Woodhall joins Buncey to reflect on Usyk becoming a two-time undisputed heavyweight champion with his stoppage of Daniel Dubois at Wembley. We hear from Usyk himself in the dressing room, his longtime cornerman Russ Anber, and get reaction from Dubois and his promoter Frank Warren.

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Pockethose.com slash POD C-A-S-T. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is five live boxing. 90,000 people came out, they waved their flags, they showed their allegiances. It was split. It was a special. and I. And then the boxers came to the ring. I'd never seen Daniel Dubois look so serious, look so intense. And then Usik came out and he looked like a different man. What a fight it was.

Dubois down twice in the fifth round and counted out. Alexander Usik is the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world for the second time. He's a great fighter. We've got it completely covered. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. And there was a great sense when Usik. first emerged from the tunnel, hit himself behind the fireworks, stood on that stage. He was looking around. He was so focused, so controlled, no emotion whatsoever. None of the smiling, none of the comedy that we come to expect from him.

Sure, Dubois, who entered the ring 10 minutes earlier, he looked focused. But there was something about Usik. And I turned to Darren Fletcher, who was presenting with us on Five Live, and I said, he looks dangerous. And I tapped Richie and pointed at him. Richie Richie Woodrow Richie

that was a different Usick tonight that was a motivated a scary a savage Alexander Usik I had never seen Alexander Usik

that nasty and that focused yeah and walking to the ring he looked very calm but he looked very very determined I actually thought

Steve in the first round I thought Daniel started really well actually like he's promised he would always nice and fast nice and fast and he needed to

and Alexander at Usick does what he does. I thought it was a good round for Daniel, but in the second round, it sort of woke him up, if you like. It woke Usik up. Usik realised then that he was in a proper fight and sort of adjust.

And you know what he's like. He adjusts to the situation. He assesses what's in front of him, adjust to it, and then he applies the right tactics. But it was a good display from Dubois in that opening round. I was really impressed with him.

Well, the first round was better than all of their rounds in their first fight two years ago. and it was the best round for Daniel Dubois. I think you gave it to Dubois. I couldn't have given it to Dubois. The second round was an even better round because Daniel was getting closer.

He was just missing with the punches. But Usik was just starting to measure, as you say, starting to get that South Pole lead for outside and also landing increasingly with big left hands. But after two rounds, we had a really good fight on our hands. We had a fight that 90,000 people were loving, a fight that deserved to be called the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world.

We had a really good fight on our hands. The big question was always going to be how long can Daniel keep that up for? Keep on that pace. We knew that. And over the last three fights that he's had since the Ussick, the first Ussick defeat,

back in 2020, he's improved. And I think he's improved in his stamina. But you know what, Steve? It goes back to a great conversation we had with Tony Bellew years ago about how he said that when he fought Alexander Ussick, how tired he got by just concentrated.

So it wasn't doing anything, he was just surviving. Just surviving. Now, I think that was probably a lot to do with how tired Daniel Dubois got tonight because he's concentrated. He had to box at a faster pace, most certainly, but he had to concentrate more. And I'll tell you something else that I thought was very important, Steve. When he missed, he made him pay.

And he missed quite a bit, Daniel did. Well, it was shut up to miss. Exactly. It's not because Daniel missed. It's because Ousick was laying a few tracks. Daniel was falling from missing, allowing Ushut to come back. There's a big counters. Classic counter punch boxing from Alexander Usik.

And I think that tied him out as well. Because when you miss the target, and you've got to remember, I think Danny was throwing his shots with a lot of venom. When you're missing the target, then it just takes it out of you. And I think there were signs at the end of the third or going into the fourth that he was showing,

just signs. We spoke about it in commentary that he looked like there was signs that he was getting a little bit tired. He's feeling the pace. I always use my notes. Like you use your ringside notes, and I know Stacey Copeland who worked at us on the night,

she does the same thing. I use my notes. I still keep notes. I don't just watch it for three minutes. I'll take a few notes. And at the end of the third round, which I gave to Ousek, so I had it 2-1 at that point. At the end of the third round, I said,

Dubois, clearly slowing, tired question mark. And that was the end of the third round. You picked up on it the moment I came back to you at the end of that third round. You see, Daniel isn't the type of boxer where he thinks, I'll take a backward step and drop my hands and have a little bit of a shake off and just try and get a bit of relaxation into my muscles and just to save a little bit of energy.

He sort of steps away, still probably a little bit inexperienced, to be quite honest. He's been taught, he's been very well schooled, keeps his guard nice and high, unfortunately, because of his concentration level tonight, he was having to think, he's having to work a lot harder, and occasionally he was missing the target. That just affected him.

It just affected his fatigue, really. But the big thing was also, Daniel also had that, thing where he had that ring in his ears for the last two years, certainly for the last 10 weeks, you've got to work, you've got to keep working. So he doggedly did stick with the idea that he could land big jabs and big crosses.

I said from the word go here tonight, I said that Daniel Dubois has got to gamble tonight. If he's going to win, it'll be on a stoppage. He won't outbox No chance he wins on points. He won't beat him on points, no. There's probably not a man on the planet that will outbox

Alexander Usik. There isn't, is there? At the end of the day and with all due respect to Daniel Dubois, you know, he's not the type of boxer to outbox Usik. What he had to do, he had to try and stop him. To go for the stoppage, which he did, fair play, he went for it, it just leaves him exposed even more and he got caught with the odd shop. Well, fair play to him, he went for it. And for those people, those critics who were saying, but you've been telling us all week, Bunti, that he's improved, you've been telling us all week, he's a different Daniel Dubois. Well, if it's a different Daniel Dubois, and he's improved, How did he only go five rounds this time

And he went nine rounds last time Well, I'll tell you how he only went five rounds this time Because he knew he had to have a go He had to go down in a blaze of glory And he gambled There was a point at the end of the fourth When Don Charles says to him Just give me, all I want is a double jab

You've been calling for the double jab I think at that point The fatigue had set in, the tired of sitting And if people are wondering How can that happen after four rounds Trust me, I've seen it happen after one round One round with heavy weights You should, you got to remember, Steve, because of the build-up on that,

it takes, you know, he looked great going into the ring, don't get me wrong, but the whole of today, he would have been nervous all today, of course, you'd have been nervous in the build-up pressure. It's an undisputed it. You would not be human if you're boxing in front of 95,000 people, and you're not going to be nervous. And by all adds to it, Steve. Which is on the subject of 19,000 people there tonight.

I think that was the figure that they're throwing around, okay? I kept taking my headset off to have a listen, and the Ussick cheers were louder than the Dubbo. Cheers. The British fans love it. At the tube station a few hours earlier, Stacey Copeland, where she was negotiating, he was set,

Giza was selling flags for 50p. She was trying to buy 10 for a fiver. I don't know how that works. So we nearly had Ukrainian flags tonight because Stacey nearly bought some Ukrainian flags. And the flags were out, they were fluttering. The loyal followers, they were fluttering. We go into the fifth round, Rich.

And at this point, I mean, I've got a real sense in that fifth round. and I'm not being an after-time I'm not being smart I had a real sense that this is a bit of a make or break around and I think I said that in our con before we went to it

that was a devastating round the fifth yeah it was indeed and you've got to remember because of the tiredness he was getting more affected by the punches that he was getting caught with you know there's some lovely back-hands

from Usik when he made Daniel Miss he come back with some lovely clever back-hands and he's also Steve he's got a great job jab, you know. A great jab, great timing. He comes in blind and talks about it in a week. All the time, Steve,

he's moving around, Daniel. He's rarely going back to the ropes, although fair play to Daniel. He backed him up a couple of time, Steve. He got him in a corner, but he got out of corner without even being clipped. I don't know how he did it. I don't know how he managed it. He just said, it's an instinct. He senses danger. It's an instinct then to get back to the centre of the ring and keep moving circular

again, off to his right away from Daniel's big right hand. With about one minute and 20 odd seconds left, Daniel had been caught a couple of times, been backed up a couple of times, and it looked like Usik was setting up. Well, it didn't look like he was setting up. He counted, and he called him with a big right, and was slightly behind the ear. It wasn't on the back of the head, but it wasn't on the chin. And Daniel lost a bit of balance and went down, fell down onto his knees.

Beat that count and then got out. It was up at seven, if I'm not mistaken. Beat that count. And this is when it's really interesting, because there's a point there, Rich, when right in front of me, standing in front of me, two feet for me, Frank Warren's telling him to get up. Get up, yeah.

But over to Frank Warren's right, you saw something I'd missed. Yeah, I did see it because when Daniel was actually on the floor for the last time, he was looking straight at his corner, but he was looking at his dad, and his dad was actually sort of leaning into the corner, and he was looking directly at him, and I was looking at his father,

and his dad, I couldn't see his face because he had his back to me, but he wasn't. showing his hands. But exactly. So Daniel's looking at him, sort of waiting for instruction or waiting for encouragement. I don't know what he was waiting for.

But you know yourself, when someone actually speaks, you'll probably see their head moving. There was no movement from his father. So whilst people are telling him to get up, his father was not telling him to get up. You know what, Steve? The father figure that his dad is, obviously,

it's worked wonders in the past. We know that from a couple of other fights that he's actually, he's giving instructions to Daniel and Daniel's taking those instructions. on board and perform well. Tonight, the father, he's in that corner, but because he's looking at his son who's on the floor,

he doesn't give him, I didn't think he'd give him any real instructions, and maybe that's gone against him tonight for being a father. And I know, you know how I know that, Steve, from my own father. You work with your father in the corner of a whole time. He always said to me, it's really bad watching your son actually box. My dad always said that. Well, so there was a point. He gets up, and then he gets caught with it, he misses with a big shot,

And in slow motion, there's one of those punties where you're in the seats going, no, because it comes in, comes in in in slow motion. Daniel's turning into it. Usset's put everything into it. Down goes Daniel and that's it. The fight at that point is over, stopped at 152 of the fifth round. And no complaints, obviously, from anyone. In fact, the towel came in,

yeah, towel fluttered in a couple of seconds before the, the towel fluttered in a couple of seconds before the referee waved it off. So it was all finished there. Daniel spoke at the end about how, you know, the better man won another night, no excuses for me. And Usick wouldn't be drawn on whether he'll fight again and wouldn't be drawn. But interestingly, he wasn't full of praise for Daniel.

When he was asked about, you know, Daniel's, you know, Daniel's, great competitor, he's this, he's there. He said, you know, in sport, one man wins, one man loses. Let's hear from Usik. We hung around, we waited around, and we eventually got him in his dressing room. I think that was your best performance. I really do.

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm very happy three times. Thank you God. You were sharp, you were focused, you were intensity. It was fantastic. Yes, because we prepare for this fight a long time. Yeah, I'm grateful for my team because my team very good work for this fight

and prepare Cuba, Yuri, all my team, very good preparation. When you were walking to the ring, what is in your head? What do you think? When the stop round? No, when you're walking to the ring. I pray. I pray. Thank you so much, guy. Oh God, oh, whoa, this stadium, it's Wembley.

You know, a lot of people who play for him, it's like a top top. But we today do it fight. No, it was a short fight, but was it a hard fight, Alexander? Was it a hard fight? Not... ...not legy, lazy, easy. Not easy. Yeah, this fight was not easy because Daniel, you know, it was like a pump, you know,

corner, say, hey, you... hey you must you must go front and Daniel okay okay I was like a jab bam okay okay but not easy and now of course it's a simple fight you just fight Derek Tuzovar back at Wembley no I I joke can I know you're only joking but now I want to rest with your family yeah I beg home I want to I want to I want to I want to I will be with my family I'm really rest, sleep. And final question.

Final question. You are now, without doubt, one of the greatest fighters in history. How does that feel? He is now one of the greatest fighters in history. How does that feel? It's not up for dispute. I'm not best of the best. You're one of the best ever.

No. No. Yes. I just, Alex. Alex. Ukrainian guy. So Rich, you heard it there. Very relaxed, not that marked up, a little bit, a few marks around his left eye.

The room's full of little shrines, little religious items. It's quite unbelievable. But he doesn't want to accept that he's a great fighter. He's just Alexander from Ukraine. Yeah, unbelievable, isn't he? He's a supreme and superb champion in the ring and out of the ring. And, yeah, very, very modest. but he is exceptional Steve

he really is an exceptional fighter and we'll go down in my opinion as one of the all-time greats as you says it's got to be in the top 10 of all time any weight and Rich you know what I can't think you know when you see a fighter you think you know what Lennox Lewis would have done this to him

because Lennox does this really well or don't worry Tyson would have got to him because Tyson does that very well what heavyweight comes to mind who would have a natural plan to be Osset That doesn't mean that all of the heavyweights in history would lose to him. But who do you think would be the guy that counters everything he does that would cause him?

I'm just going to watch. It's a bit of a sideline here. We'll hear from Frank Warren and Daniel Dubrault in a minute, and we'll discuss where Dubra and where Usset goes. I just wondered, who is it? Because let's say we all talk about, you know, if it's a guy that's susceptible to slightly shorter guys, then we just throw Tyson in with him.

Mobile, we throw Ali with him. Who'd you throw in to Uzek? because you really fancy he could beat him. I'd probably go... It's a tough question to ask you after midnight. I'm sorry, something. Well, one I'd go for. He'd probably Big Len, to be quite honest.

Because he's got the brains and the jab and he won't come here and he won't get carried away and he won't get involved. Very clever fighter, who's similar in that, you know, he assesses the situations against boxers and sorts out the tactics and gets it right. So, yeah, I'd probably put Big Len in there that would certainly trouble Usick. and obviously the other one for me would probably be Muhammad Ali because of his movements

What Ali, the first Ali in the 60s or the one in the 70s Well the first one in the 60s is only about 14 stone I know yeah We're allowing it Everyone in this fantasy league A quarter to one in the morning

at Wembley Ridge is 16 and a half stone I think both both allies would The first one When he was Cassius Clay and the Muhammad Ali I think they would both give him problems

Because of his movements And how skillful he was But isn't that a really now, isn't he? And he's going to have to live up to it. He's going to have to accept it. It's really that similar. We will discuss where we think you'll...

Go on. Vitali Klitsko. Yes. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine an old Ukraine mix? Not Vladtebi? Not. But I'll say Vitali,

who's more aggressive than Vladimir. Oh, top stuff, Rich. Now one man who was very close to everything was Russ Amber, a friend of the show. He was in the corner, and Usik does talk to him in the corner. So we, we went. went backstage waiting outside different rooms.

One room there's no one in it. We waited outside it for 20 minutes. That's just that that's just happens. But I did speak or both of us spoke. I spoke to Russ Amber, who's a good friend of mine. I didn't quite realize just how much of a bromance there is between Richie Woodle and Russ Amber. Here we are about midnight at Wembley talking to Russ

about what happened and what it was like being in that corner with the great Alexander Usick. He looked a little angry. He was a little upset. Wasn't it an upset? And you know what? He said at the press conference, although I think he meant to say, you know, like don't poke the bear,

but he said, don't push the horses. Remember when he said that of the, that's what he meant, you know, like you're poking the bear here, you know, shut up, you know, and maybe that won't be as mean on you. And I think he did take it a little personal, especially because of what happened, you know, after the first fight, you know, in a dominating performance, everything is surrounding the controversy of the low blow,

then challenging his faith, you know, as to what God he believes in, and he should admit that he was knocked out and all that. I think that hurt him because he's a man of credibility and a man of God. And I think that when you attack someone's credibility like that, they do take a person on it. And the finish today, the finishing in the last couple of rounds,

he was just more spiteful enough seen. What was he like in the corner? He was super calm. Like he was super calm. You know, he just had come back, I'd ask my eyes, and I have to wipe his eyes out. Then I take the cold towel, you know, and put the cold towel on him,

and he was really nice, refresh. Because I know how hot it can be? And you know why I learned that from? Watching Barry McGuigan lose his title in Las Vegas in the afternoon? In the heat in Las Vegas in the afternoon. Steve Cruz. Yeah, again, Steve Cruz. And I always remember as a kid,

nobody ever doused him in ice water. No one ever tried to cool. I don't know. That's a question. I asked myself to this day. And I swore I'd never make that mistake ever with fighters in the future, you know? Russ, I thought it was a classic display by Alexander

in terms of, it was a better Daniel Dubois, but like what Alexander does, he assesses the situation, sorts it out, and then he just adapts to the situation and, you know, and gets the job done. I'm not sure if it was, if it was Steve, I told this too, but I said,

Dubois has two options, right? He goes for broke, he goes for it, holds up on the power and say, let's go for it, and let the chips fall where they may. That's what he went with, okay? And he made it competitive as a result, but he also left it, he also expended a lot of energy. It was a risk.

And if he didn't get him, you know, now you've expended a ton of energy, and now this guy's still fresh and he's firing away hard. Early in the fight, Dubois, when he had his energy, was able to make him miss some shots, bounce away from himself as it wore on.

You know, he said, boom, he was still, he wasn't getting away quick enough. You understand like you used to do, you know what I'm talking about. Same style. But, Bruce, what impressed me as well about Alexander? Honestly, I'll just say you two. It's like a couple of old lovers getting together. I'm going to go and put my feet up over with a league of two.

Bruce, what impressed me even more about him is right towards the end, he made Daniel miss and then he made him pay. Big time. That's the classic thing, isn't it? Right. And he's so quick. Like, I don't know if you guys saw it. I'm not sure if it was because Dubois is not really.

fast, but he's strong, but it seemed like Usik, to me, speed was even better than against Fury. There was an... Russ, there was an instant. We saw it on the walk in. With Darren Fletcher, who was presenting with us and Ritchie, we saw it on the walk in. That was a different look, a different set of... The whole thing was different. And the finish itself was really substantial, really nicely, but I've got to ask you, and he was kind of, he wouldn't really commit in the ring. What would come next? And what does come next? I mean, could he walk away. Could he wonder? Well, what do you mean?

Financially? He could? Of course he could. Of course he could, you know, but when you have these kind of performances, like how do you retire after performance? You're getting better with each performance. That's what he said, he's just to start. And he's right, he's right. Like, I mean, he could go on and do this.

There's not a lot of guys in the division that are going to be able to handle that. You know, there's not a lot of guys that are going to be able to handle that kind of work effort. You know, the guy that worries me in the division, the guy that I think is problematic is Joseph Parker. You know, I think Joseph

Just Joseph Parker's the day. He's improving Bruce, isn't he? He is, and he's getting a confidence, and he's smart in the ring too, you know. He's smart in the ring. So, you know, he's dangerous. I get Cabell is another young up and pepper hungry. You know, good fighter.

Hasn't been really tested yet, but every time they've tried to test him, he's passed the test. So that's, he has been tested, but he passes the test. So let me just ask you this. You love this story, Rich. See that?

See what he's got on there? Tell the story about your tie. Wow. So this, the first time I worked with Loma When I came back, after the fight, came back to the dress room and he stuck out his hand and he said, welcome to Team Lomachenko. And he shook my hand. And the next fight that we had, he says, I noticed you wear a tie in the corner. So he gave me his Olympic tie.

That was his tie from the Olympics. And that's the tie that I've worn for all his fights and all of Usook's fight. The Olympic colors with the Olympic rings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not bad, huh? Wow, that is fantastic. If he had given me a Rolex, you know, I don't care about a Rolex. This has something of sentimental value.

And he noticed that I wear that in the corner and remember to bring him. ring it. I've worn it ever since his fourth or fifth pro fight. I've had it on ever since. Fantastic, Russ. You know what? When you want insight, proper insight, this man here. He's the man. Russ is, he is. We've interviewed

him in the cold. We've interviewed him in the hot, in Saudi, in Jerdda at 3 o'clock in the morning. Russ, thanks very much indeed. You guys got to understand some. It's because you guys ask good questions and you're boxing people and it's good to talk to you guys. Other people don't always ask questions like do you do. And you understand. Even though

Me and him can disagree on a lot of stuff. But he's a fight, guys. So that's what counts. For being a fight, guy, is all that counts. Beautiful. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads.

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This week on Good Bad billionaire, how Toto Wolf made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Now, Daniel Dubois, often when a fighter, he loses his world title, his heavyweight title, gets dropped twice. They often don't stay. They're often don't hang around,

but give Du Bois. He was up just right in front of us. He didn't move for five minutes. He did his interview. And I've got to tell you, the interview is absolutely full of dignity. You'll tell you, he went up in my estimation

with this interview, Daniel DeVois. Have a listen to this. Daniel, you dare to be great today. You challenge yourself against arguably one of the greatest heavyweight of all time. It wasn't your night, but it was an incredible performance.

How would you sum up that performance from yourself? I have to commend him on the performance. I gave everything I had. It just wasn't probably a few things I could have sharpened off on, but I take no credit away from the man, I'll be back. No doubt you will be back. We've seen it before. The jab was key last time round.

You didn't throw or land enough jabs. Did you think maybe you would have landed more jabs and more to the body like your team were telling you to do? I was just fighting, man. I was in a fight, and I was just trying to pick it up round by round, but it is what it is. I'll be back. That was Daniel Dubois.

I love what he said. I thought he was brilliant. I thought he was eloquent. I think he summed it up perfectly. Also up in the ring was Frank Warren. I saw him get up and him and Usik had a couple of words. Frank patted him on the cheek. They exchanged smiles.

They exchanged hugs. And then Frank spoke. And what was clear from what Frank said is just how much respect he has for Alexander Usick. Alexander Usik is a modern day legend. He's an unbelievable fighter. In any generation, he'd be a great fighter. And I'll take my hat off to him tonight. You know, Daniel was ready for it.

He was up and trained hard. No complaints, no excuses. The better man won on the night. He is a fabulous, fabulous champion. Finally, Frank, you seem to have all the other heavyweights that he mentioned there. He mentioned Joseph Park. He mentioned Caviel, Furri, Chazora.

What heavy would you like to see him in with next? WBO, I'm sure, or they already. have ordered that he being the WBO champion has to make his defense, mandatory defense, against Joe Parker. So it's Joe Parker, Simon. We're running out of time. It's a late night. It's been a long day.

You and I were at the BBC about 16 hours ago or 17 hours ago doing our first hits into breakfast and pre-breakfast. Let's deal with where they go from here. Now, generally, I give you the choice. But I'm not going to give you the choice tonight. We're going to start with Dubois. What does Daniel Dubois do now? Where does he go?

What's your gut feeling? I think Daniel Du Bois, although he's beating tonight and he was a devastated knockout, I think he actually improved as a fighter tonight, to be quite honest, because I thought it was a much better performance. He was in the fight. He was in the fight, mate.

He's in the fight, mate. He was in the fight. He was in the fight. He was a hard rounds. Absolutely. So for me, he's improved, most certainly. And now, because he's only 27, he's got plenty of time on his side.

It'll be all depending now obviously what Alexander Ousick does and of course how long Alexander Ousick he's going to box on for. And how long he can keep those belts? And how long can keep the belts? Because, yeah, because of mandatory challenges and, you know...

I've got the information on that, son. There you know that. And you know yourself, Steve. A mandatory comes up that he can't fulfil and then that title becomes vacant and then Daniel Dubois obviously he'd be next in line for a shot against whoever. So Daniel will get another shot at a world title.

I'm pretty sure of that. And at 27, there's still a big future for Daniel DuBois. Yeah, well, let me tell you the situation as it stands. And we heard from Joseph Parker earlier in a week and Stacey spoke to her during fight night. The way it works is that there's four organizations, WBO, WBC, WBA and IBF. And right now, the WBO are their mandatory,

their top challenger is entitled to the first crack at the undisputed champion. Had there been a rematch and there's no need for a rematch after this fight So the way I understand it According to the people I spoke to And I spoke to all of the bosses Including Gustero, Gustavo Olivier

The new WBO boss took over from Paco Valcassell As Gustavo told me That if there's a rematch There'll be an extraordinary board meeting To decide what they do But if there's no rematch They're in front of the WBC, the WBA and the IBF They get the next challenger up

And that's Joseph Parker, the interim WBO champion, and a man long overdue of crack, who was meant to remember fight Daniel in February, but Daniel got a mystery illness and couldn't have to pull out of the fight at 48 hours notice. So in theory, it's Joseph Parker who gets the next crack. However, and I'm just going to be absolutely brutally honest here because it's nearly 1 o'clock in the morning,

I love Joseph Parker. He's one of my favourite fighters, and he deserves a shot more than any fighter in the world. but that doesn't make as much business sense as Anthony Joshua or Tyson Fury Let's be brutally honest Let's not codden the people listening Let's be honest at 10 to 1 in the morning

Exactly And it will be for me it'll be who Alexander Usick chooses to box against So, you know, he could give AJ another crack He could give Tyson Fury another crack If he has to fight Joseph Park He'll probably go down the route of either a Fury or an AJ Or don't rule out And give up the WBR! Don't rule out

Derek Chazora on his 50th fight because he likes Derek. But no, he does like Derek, Rich, but sorry, mate. I said to him, Alexander, because obviously I do my Eastern European accent when I'm interviewing him, I said, Alexander, what, do you fight Derek? No, I joke, I joke. He doesn't want to fight Derek.

Okay, fair enough. Listen, good luck, good luck to Derek, who's the number one companion. Well, for me, for me, business sense-wise, it's got to be the Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua. And that is the fight it would be because that is the fight that makes sense. It's really absolutely that simple.

Let's just that Daniel go past. So that was live there. That was Daniel Dubois leaving. You know, sometimes you stick your microphone in people's faces, which even if they've been knocked out, but I'm not after, especially how dignified he was in the ring. There was no way I was going to do that. Paddy the producers probably said,

oh, he could have just thrown one question. No, I know half the people in his entourage there, I've known Daniel since he was a lot younger. I'll leave him. I think I made the right call. Ritchie. Absolutely. So now Alexander Ousset,

we're talking here about roughly what he does. He wants one big fight. And I've been telling people all week, he wants a fight back in Kiev. There's a football stadium there. They've played football there. There's 60,000,000 could be there. And I want to be on that train.

I think I was telling Colin Murray this on Five Live. I want to be on the train. See later, Don. See out of Don. See you later. See a boss, man. That's Don, John, Charles, and the rest of Daniel's team leaving.

We'll speak to Don. to his hooks farm, play around with his horses. I was talking to Colin Murray. Sorry, but this is what happens when you do a pod live and it's late. I was talking to Colin Murray and I said, Colin, when he fights at home, thousands and thousands, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians would be taking the trains from Poland to Kiev.

And I want to be in one of those trains. I want to be on the train with Alexander Usik, crossing that border and taking that train. The train line will be packed with people throwing flowers and showing their expect. I honestly truly believe that's a possibility, not just a fight in Saudi, not a fight anywhere else in the world,

but I honestly believe we could actually be in Ukraine for the last fight. He talks about having loads of fights, but I think we both know what the story is. Steve, you know, tonight was his 13th World Title fight and he hasn't had one world title fight in Ukraine. It's just incredible. So why not have the last one, the big one?

I'd love it to be Joseph Parker. And maybe, I'll be honest with you, if he was fighting a shadow over there, if he was fighting a can of corn over there, he'd end up getting 60,000, 70,000. So perhaps Joseph does get his crack. He's got to have a home coming, hasn't he? Boxing Ukraine, defending his world title.

You know, if everything's safe for him. I would love that to happen. And for the people of Ukraine and for Alexander Ussk, like I say, to have 13 world title fights, but you haven't had one world title fight in your home country, that I've never known that with any of the boxer To be quite honest, the world champion,

you think about it. What are the world champion has had that many world title fights but hasn't had a world title fight in their own country? I can't think of it. No, it's unheard of. Rich, it's generally at this point,

it's generally when you're at this point off about the seventh round when you're fighting one of those tough Australians and you get back to your corn and you get your pep talk and they tell you it's just one last round but let me tell you, we've got about 45 minutes more of this pod,

so you're going to even get some smelling salts or buck you're only kidding, I'm only kidding. You better be. I'm starving. Richie, it's been an absolute delight and a pleasure. It's been an incredible week. We've had a sensational week.

It's been one of my best big fight weeks, and we've done on this pod since 2017. I bet you we've done 30 major nights, whether it's AJ in New York against Andy Ruiz. That type of fight, that was great fun, or whether it's Katie Taylor just last weekend. We've had big weeks. This one ranks with all of them.

The end of the fight ranks with it. Richie, you've been brilliant. Barry Jones is brilliant earlier in the week. Darren Barker was. brilliant earlier in the week. Carl Frampton was brilliant earlier in the week. We started off on a double-decker bus on Monday. It seems like forever ago.

That was incredible. The way it was great. Who's the big dog, though, Steve? Who's the big dog? You are the big dog, Richie, boy. You are the big dog. Oh, actually, Lennox Lewis is the big dog, but you're still quite a big dog.

Ritchie, it's been a special week. If you've been listening all week, thank you very much. If you're listening all last week, thank you very much. We're not gone. We're just going to, well, we're going to do the usual thing where we don't have to do a pod and a half a day. This has been a special week. Daniel Dubois was excellent in defeat, and I mean excellent in defeat.

But I've got to just tell you this now, and it's really simple. Alexander Usik is one of the best fighters I've ever seen in the flesh. He's a ring genius. And what's more, he's a fantastic fella. Alexander, we salute you. I wish I could use a bit of Ukrainian then, Rich, but my Ukrainian's a bit tough. I'm Steve Bunce, and this has been a great week of five by fox. weekly, we're all over the Lions Tour of Australia, pre-match podcast, post-match podcast,

on the whistle podcast from all the Lions matches down under. We also have a special Lions' Top Ten series with two greats of Lions rugby, Matt Dawson, Jamie Roberts, and we've been ranking everything from icons to controversies. We've got moments, tours. Tries. You're in the controversies, Matt? Right at the top. Jamie, you're in the controversies too?

Indirectly not your fault. It is all there to men who have been there, done it. and won it on a Lions tour. Get it now. Lions Top Tens on Rugby Union Weekly on BBC Sounds.