5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Usyk v Dubois 2: Inside the Usyk camp

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

What is Oleksandr Usyk really like behind the scenes? Carl Frampton joins Buncey at the press conference to get unique insight from those who know the Ukrainian champion best. Long-time corner man Russ Anber shares stories from his years working as Usyk’s trainer, cutman and hand-wrapper, while Ukrainian commentator Volodymyr Kobelkov, who’s known Usyk for two decades, offers a personal perspective. Joseph Parker also drops by with an update on his own future and how he sees the fight playing out. Plus, DAZN’s Michael Ridout makes his pod debut to answer the big questions: is pay-per-view really dead and is Eubank-Benn 2 off?

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. This is Five Live Boxing. So it's day four, it's press conference day. And if you came with your helmet for protection because you thought there might be some flying tables, there were no flying tables. And that's great. Ussick looked brilliant.

Daniel looked occasionally bored, said one or two things. Don Charles was talking well. It's heating up. This fight doesn't need gimmicks. It doesn't need hype. It's a rematch. Revenge or repeat. You know the story. Anyway, it's a proper heavyweight fight, and it's also history.

It's the first ever undisputed heavyweight fight to take place in Great Britain. So on day four, I spoke to a Ukrainian journalist called Waller, not just a journalist, he's a sports broadcaster. He's the commentator, and he's been around Usik for about 18 years. I also spoke to Joseph Parker, a heavyweight that people are trying to ignore, and I don't think that's right. And a man who's been inside the Ucic camp for an awful forward. long time. Man called Russ Amber. You know who Russ is if you listen to the pod and grab a word with DeZone's Mike Riddle. It's a pod of voices about a memorable fight during an unforgettable week. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So once again, Alexander Usick arrived in the most

fabulous outfit. He's done it like 15 times. I've seen him now at press conferences and he just wears a brilliant hat. It's a Cossack hat. It's a white flowing gown. And when he comes in, I don't know if he's wearing high-hills but he looks about 6'10. He looks majestic and Daniel had a nice track suit on. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. It was a... I thought there might be fun and games.

I thought there might be a few tables being thrown at the press comments, the final press conference. There wasn't. I'm joined by Carl Franton. It's been around all week. He's seen it. He was at the workhouse.

He saw the conference every day. Carl, were you a little bit overwhelmed by the press conference? Did you expect something a bit more than what we got? I had a feeling that we were maybe going to try and irritate Usik a little bit more Dawn Charles in particular. But he didn't really, no, they didn't.

I was surprised in that sense, but it was all very civil. But both guys seemed really confident. They're saying the right things, but that line would Usik talked about how important it is because of what his country is going through at the minute and the motivation against the soldiers. And you see it in his eyes as well. Like you believe everything he says.

Not only believe everything he says, but I'm talking to some of the people in the camp. People I've got to know over the last three or four years. And they're saying that he's ready now. Not that that's got nothing to do about 50 years or his condition. Apparently he's ready now. It's been a long week. It's been a long camp. There's a lot going on back in Ukraine.

And he wants to fight now. And Daniels wanted to fight since, you know, I told you, I saw him on Monday. I was on a bus tour with him. And he's just desperate to fight. And you saw him at the work yesterday. He's ready to go. He was ready to go. for a second there

and he was kind of rocking back and forward in his chair and it just looks like a man on edge it's ready to be let off the leash and that's dangerous oh no no

that's a two-sided that's a two-sided saw isn't it you could say that he's up for it which I tend to think that he is he's up for the fight but I mean there could be a case

that he's kind of wasting nervous energy at this stage which he doesn't need to waste but I go with the opinion that Daniel just looks like he wants to do a job here

yeah well and that's fine and that is certainly one very opinion that he's just absolutely ready. Usik himself as calm and relaxed as possible. And I think that we've, about two years ago, we did an awful lot about the situation in Ukraine because he'd been at the front line

and we talked about his house being attacked and overtaken by invading troops. But we haven't really done a lot of that on this particular, for this particular fight. But I get the impression, I talk to a journalist, we're going to hear from him later on. In fact, the Ukraine sports commentator who's going to be commentating

tomorrow night, actually from ringside, actually in front of our position. So it's commented on Saturday night. And he reminded us about that situation. So I don't think you can ever underestimate that backdrop as motivation, ultimate motivation. Of course, I mean, what's going on is maybe not being reported as much as it was when the war kicked off. She's not new anymore. In this part of the world.

And what happens is people forget about it, but they're in the middle of a war where people are down. So it's very, very serious. and clearly it's something that motivates Ussick to succeed. I must admit, I'm just looking at him there at Ucic the last couple of days and I've just seen him looking more, more majestic. I love him. I think he's grown into being a champion,

a bit like Lennox Lewis did. When Lennox Lewis first won the world title, it was a bit of a mix-up because he'd beaten Donovan Razor Rudder. He had one defense and another defense, and he lost Oliver McCall when he came back, and he won the title back. it wasn't until after that that he started to grow into him

and you know what I mean by that he suddenly... No, I know, I get it. And I'm looking at him there and he just and then the word I use is majestic He just looks... Even yesterday, Buncey, like you talked about it and he looked very similar in height

to Daniel on the stage today I know he had the hat on and maybe he had kind of hills on his shoes, I don't know but you said it yesterday and I absolutely agree there was talk of him at a point maybe going back down to cruiser weight but he's a fully fledged big heavyweight now. And Joe Parker agreed.

Joe said the exact same thing. He's a big guy. In fact, you mentioned Joe Parker. The Joe Parker's been around, he's floating around. Now, Joe Parker was meant to fight Daniel DeBron in February and about 50 hours or 60 hours before the fight. Daniel was taken ill and couldn't make the fight and then left the country.

And Joe Parker ended up fighting Martin Bacoli, who'd been somewhere but not in a gym. And let's not beat around the bush. and it lasted of whatever it did a round and a half and Joe Parker took care of him. And Joe Parker still not getting a world title fight. Everyone loves Joe Parker. I think it's fair to say. So I grabbed the older Joe

Parker to just get his take on his position and this fight. The opportunity to fight for the championship of the world was taking away for me, with Daniel being sick. Thankfully, I was able to still lock in the fight of Martin McCauley. It could have been a banana skin, could have been a tough fight. Fortunately enough, I landed a good shot

and got him out of there. But I do feel like a lot of it. like with this fight in the weekend, I should be fighting the winner. I should be fighting the winner. That's who I want next. And there's lots of bold talk about Fury, Tyson coming back and fighting the winner of this.

And I'll be honest with you, I've gone head to head of a few people this week, and it's outrageous that Joseph Parker's being overlooked. By the way, Azic Cabell is also being overlooked. Carbayel's done tremendously well as well in the fights that he's had, stopping Zhang, Magmudov. And he's done very well.

And he could be an option for me in the future as well, but for now, the guys I am chasing is, you know, Yusik, Dubois, but you never know what's going to happen. Whoever wins this fight is their rematch clauses, right? Depends how the fight ends as well? Depends how the fight ends? Are they going to vacate the belts? What's going to happen? Like, you just don't know what's going to happen, right? So we're just sitting here patiently waiting, building away, enjoying my work, enjoying life, and just... And just being Joe. And just being Joe.

Joe, and I don't often ask guys for previews, and I won't ask for preview, but how do you think this fight goes. What sort of fight are we going to get? Are we going to get a continuation of what we saw in Poland two years ago? Or has Dubois improved that much? I feel like Dubois has improved. Physically, he's always in great shape. He punches with a lot of power. He looks confident. He looks ready. But what can't get him down is his mental toughness. You know, Wufusik, though, he's a master class technician, boxer, mover, feints. He's got the whole, He's got the whole sort of package, but the blueprint is right there. Derek Chisora showed us all how to give music the toughest and hardest fight. There was a bit of talk briefly about Derek Chisora, but you and him having you, I think you fought 11 times now, or 14 times. I forgot how many times you fought.

I was just desperate for a fight. I just want to fight anyone. I want to fight everyone, and I want to keep... If I could have it my way, I would have three or four fights in one year. But unfortunately, I've had one fight with Zhang in 24, one of Bikoli, and now I'm just still waiting. Joe, you are... Give me your fight.

You are one of the most deserving heavyweights out. Joe, it's always a pleasure talking to you. I really mean that. Thank you very much indeed. So Joe Parker there, still being the nicest guy in the world, waiting for his chance. And I hope he gets it, Carl. He really deserves it.

Back to the actual fight itself. We talked about their demeanour, the way they look and the way they sound. How much... It's a really simple question, but I've got to ask you, and I asked Barry Jones earlier, and I'll ask Richie Woodall on Friday,

how much different does... Daniel have to be and how much different can he be? You and I were ringside in Poland. He has been different in his last few fights. We've seen an improvement, definitely. But even the best version that we've seen of Daniel Dubois so far might not be enough. I think we're going to have to see a decline in Ouseek,

which is something that I kind of think that some of them are relying on a bit. People are talking about his age a lot, but I haven't seen any decline. in his performances. Just because he's 38 and just because he's been in the gyms for 29 years that doesn't necessarily

equal decline. No. And if you go through the last few fights look, Daniel's on this amazing run with Hurgovich, Miller, AJ. An incredible run. All in 10 months, by the way.

Look at all in 10 months, which makes it even better, but look at Ossick's last five per fights, sorry, Fury, Fury, Dubois, AJ, AJ, that might be the best run of any boxer alive at the minute. It's incredible.

It's a ridiculous run. It's an absolutely ridiculous run, yeah. And stopping AJ as well in front of 100,000 people at Wembley. So we're not just talking about, we're not just throwing AJ in there as one of the wins or one of the losses. Now, there's a guy I often speak to when we do a fight with Usik. I like to get hold of him. That's Russ Amber. Don't know how well you know Russ.

I like Ross. Ross. He's a good guy. He's a really good guy. He gives you insight. And so I spoke to Russ. Now, there is a little bit of this in this story where Russ delights me by delivering a story in a Ukrainian accent.

So if you might feel mildly offended, you might want to grab me a cup of tea for the next two minutes. I personally love it. Here's Russ Hamer talking to me about what kind of person Uzik is in the hours before a fight and what's more during the minute breaks in a fight. How many fights is this now that you've worked and been in camp with Alexander? Oh, I have to count that up now.

The first fight I worked with him was when he fought the kid in California, the African kid in California. That was the first fight I worked with him. I've been with him ever since. So this would be going back to 2016, roughly. So, yeah, so it's been a while. So you've been in all the bare pit fights in Moscow. You've been in all the bear pit fights, the fights with Fury, with AJ,

in Poland, that unbelievable. Like Poland was like being home in Ukraine, wasn't it? Yeah, we love that. That was good. That was a, that fight was, you know, exceptional. And the training camp was good. And Dubois really emerged in that fight, I think. I think this, and this is why sometimes fighters, you know,

they worry so much about protecting that. Oh, that L that he took in Poland made him what he is today, you know, and he's here today because of that. That's a really wise point. I want to ask you this, and I don't need any secrets. In the corner, how receptive is Usik? Does he need a lot of talking, or is it just a word, two words, three words from Sergei? How's it work?

Well, I think the way I've seen it, you know, with the way Yuri has been in the corner and the other trainers that I've seen work with him, he doesn't need much. He's so motivated himself to push himself. You just got to keep him grounded on some of the basic stuff. Don't get carried away. You know, just keep him calm sometimes, you know. Settle him down. Okay, next round coming up.

Like he did in the Fury fight. I think in both Fury fights, you saw that crescendo build. But it's not a secret, though, Bunce. I mean, this is the way he's fought his whole career. You know, he builds a crescendo, and he's got the opponent in fifth year when he's still in second. And they want to be in second, but they're in fifth, you know. That's a great skill.

Now, it's fair to say, there's no panic in him at all, is it? There's no panic in Alexander Ousick. Have you ever seen him? Not crisis point. When's it been the trickiest moment in a corner? I think the time he told me about was when he fought AJ here and got cut. It was a beauty of a cut, by the way. Yeah.

And he started panicking about that. He started saying, me, Russ, I'm worried. English referee. English fans. Oh, bleeding. You know, he said, when he came out the next round, he said he was waiting to see if the flow of blood will continue. And he said, oh, Rasphix, okay,

no problem. And he went to work. So there was that little and to me that's one of the greatest compliments I've ever had at being in the corner. You know, he says, ah, rasphix, okay. And it wasn't even an issue. And I could show you the picture of the cut. It was massive. Nobody even

mentioned it or said it wasn't even a factor in the fight. No, that wasn't a cut. That was a gash. That was a wound. That was like a military wound. And you did manage to close it. And as he said, it's gone. Ross fixed. Yeah, it was fixed. So it was good. So that's the only time I saw him concerned, but I've never seen him concerned before about a fight, about a situation. He's overcome. And the toughest fight I've seen him in was against Bradus Prescott.

Maris Maris Bratis. You know, that was a time. And he had to dig deep to pull that one out. You know, and that was to this date his closest and most competitive fight because whatever he gave, Bradis gave right back. That was his closest thing, most competitive fight. And he was in, where this is his home country, as usual. Home town, so there was like 15,000 screaming for blood. And again, he did it.

Is he, is he, is he, I've been around him for 10 fights, and I've spent a bit of time of him and I like him. Is he like that all the time? I mean, can he be that upbeat all of the time, Russ? I've never seen him not be Buncey, so I can't say, no, you know, I've never seen him the contrary.

So I'm like you, he's always has a good, outgoing, positive personality about himself. And I said this, I'm not sure if I told you this in previous interviews that we've done, but when people have asked me about what he's like, and the best compliment I could give is that, you know, myself, as a father of a daughter, he's the kind of guy you want your daughter to bring home. And I think that pretty much says it all, right? And as a father of two daughters, I fully understand that. You know what, there are certain pleasures in this business.

Going around the world's not bad. Madison Square Garden last week, 20,000, that's not bad. But really, it's talking to people like you. don't make it possible. Oh, thanks, Bunchy. I appreciate that. I always have time for you, my man. So Russ Amber there.

Now, Russ wouldn't be drawn on where and when Ousick will finally call it a day. Because I have no idea, really, Carl, when I look at him. I think you're a fresh first. You said, recently two fights. Yeah, two fights. So this would be the first of the two. First of the two, yeah.

Well, that makes sense. One big one next year. In theory. Yeah. But I mean, I mean, I suppose financially, that could be a match. massive fight with Fury. Fury's presence has been looming over this production. In fact, I thought they might

have brought him in today. A massive entrance today. It would have been classic Tyson Fury, I thought. Yeah, it would have been. But he said it recently, a couple of fights, but who knows? I mean, he may still want to continue. Obviously, the Fury fight would be absolutely

huge, but if he beats Daniel and Joe Parker doesn't get his shot next, it would be, I think, goes far as saying, pretty disgraceful. Yeah, I'm on your side. Joe Parker, I mean, the one out would be, will be a rematch, of course,

and that's obviously always a possibility and an understandable possibility, especially in our modern business. Now, I've been waiting all week to get together with this next guy. He's the... I just known him as Vola. He'll give you his full name, don't worry.

He actually is the lead commentator. He's known Usik a long time, and he's always in front of us because they've always, Ukraine TV, have the best seat in-house. They're actually on the apron with your mob, with the zone mob, actually touching the apron, with four feet behind you, which is good because it means they're getting to throw jelly babies and things at your back of your head and stuff like that,

especially at Barry Jones. You can lob big things at Barry's, like, I don't know, cream cakes and stuff. Anyway, I called up with Vola and basically just trying to get an insight into how Alexander is, and I had no idea how long the pair of them had been friends. Hello my friend, my name is Volodymer Kobelkov. I'm from Ukraine. I'm working on Megogo. I'm a commentator, sports commentator and TV host football and boxing. That's what I like that. That's an intro. So Alexander, how big is he in Ukraine? I mean, how, just, you know, can he live a normal life or is he just such a superstar? You know, I know Alexander Usik, we count yesterday. How long we know each other. It's, um, it's, um, 17 years.

That's a long time. Till year of championship here in England in Liverpool, when he comes... 2008 for the Europeans. Yeah, yeah. With Lomachenko. Lomachenko and a lot of... Luke Campbell? Luke Campbell, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, if I would say about person of Alexander Usik, he doesn't change. To you... Everyone says that. It's true. It's crazy. It's true. Like in 17 years ago we can go to McDonald's and now but now it's hardest because one million selfies and no Big Mac if you go here but he money doesn't change

Alexander Ouse that could be the name of his autobiography one million selfies and no Big Mac yeah maybe maybe maybe but I know he loves McDonald's not during the training camp but loves so so when you when you're around him at fights that's He changed in Fight Week as a person or does he carry on being Alexander? You know, change. He's at home in room number. I wear here more than four hours with Alexander with tea, English tea. He's quiet.

In normal life, he's not quiet. He's singing, dancing. Now he is quiet. And I can say that he doesn't like press conference. or something, he won't fight, he wants to Saturday and go to his family. Because he's quiet, we're speaking, we're something, remember, speaking about,

not about boxing, football, about our country, about knights in our country, not about boxing. He is, he talks about his country a lot, obviously talks about his wife a lot, it talks about his children a lot. And I get the idea that he's, when he's happiest, is when he's in Ukraine, with his world, wife, with his children, with his flip-flops on, just relaxing. Is that fair comment?

I think he's the happiest when his family, his wife, all his children, mother in Kyiv, in one house. It doesn't matter. Bombs, rockets, everybody together, at home. In Ukraine, I think, maybe the second person now. You know, Ukraine, maybe after our president. It's just Alexander. And in an ideal world, perhaps it's a fairer tower but one day wouldn't it be lovely if he could have a fight in Kyiv one day after our victory we have Ukrainian Wembley yeah and Eskow olympisky English team were playing at Kyiv yeah yeah I was commented yeah his dream but I think it's dream to end his career the last dance at Olympiyski this is he said but I don't we

The win doesn't know when it could be. One day. One day, every time we're speaking, the next year, the next year, the next month, maybe. We very want to win. Vala, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. So that was Volo.

I love it, the fact that he started working and covering and commentating on Ussk's fights when Usset won the European Championships in 2008 in Liverpool when I was there. So I probably met Vola then. That was when Luke Kemp. Campbell won, that was when Lomachenko won. That was a great, it was just soon after Olympics. It was one of the great European championships. But anyway, it was so close to Olympics, it goes under the radar.

Listen, Carl, before I let you go, because we've got 19 seconds left with you on the clock, on the meter, on the Frampton meter. Frank Warren's talked about Usset coming around, steaming straight out and attacking him. Other people have talked about him being normal and boxing, being sensible. People have talked about Daniel trying double jabs, that's just trying to take the body out.

here in the arms. What happens, ding-ding, first bell, 100,000 people in that building we can see from here? I think both guys will be aggressive. They'll try and there'll be a lot of fighting and action in the centre of the ring. I don't think there'll be loads. Usik does really well at moving, kind of taking step back, but still controlling the centre

of the ring while he's moving. So I think we're going to see a lot of that. Daniel has a chance. He does and I'm not ruling him out completely. Does he have more chance now than you gave him in the first Absolutely. He's a better fighter. Absolutely.

But Usik is special. He figures them all out. And for that reason, I think he's going to win again. Yeah, I think, I mean, if people ask me what's going to happen, I'll just say, listen to the pod and just use every word that Carl Frampton said. Carl, it's been a pleasure talking to you. An absolute delight and a pleasure. I'll see you at the, I don't know, probably at the way in and then maybe out that night

and then maybe out and then maybe on. In Belfast in September, maybe? There's talk of a big fight happening, Ponce. What a DeZone fight, Belfast? Oh, I'll tell you, how about coming down to see Michael Conlon in Dublin start of the month? We can do that, too. That'd be a nice night.

So I've let Carl go, he's wandered off. Now, the final person I want to speak to, well, thanks very much, fellas. See, you can make a bit more noise for me. The final person I want to speak to is Mike Ridout. Now, he's one of the senior people at Deso, and he'll tell you in a moment what he does. because, you know, really, I mean, and I don't want to do an advertisement for DeZone, but every single weekend, sometimes twice a weekend,

all of the big fights from the last three or four years have all been on DeZone. That's just the reality of it. It really is. Anyway, I called up with Mike to just get an idea of how this week's been, and also one or two developments that have happened in the last 24 hours. And as I said, Mike will officially introduce himself, because it's the first time on the pod, And that's just a little rule I've got.

Michael Ridout. Vice President. Executive Vice President at Dazone. Mike, thanks for finding some time to talk to us. In the outfit war, I'm going to tell you, at the press conference, Alexander Usikas won, hands down with the outfit war. In fact, no one can go against him in the outfit wars, Mike. Not even used it. No, not even.

Listen, I'd rock a Cossack hat and a white full flowing gown, trust me. He just missed the cravado, didn't he? He just missed the cravents. There's a scarf for the law. Now Mike, actually I was thinking I was just going to have a nice chat with you, but over the last 24 hours there's been all sorts of developments vis-a-vis the zone. So I've got to ask you, I've got to get really straight in with it. This is obviously Ussic and Dubois, fantastic.

We're going to be outdoors exclusively globally on the zone, which is absolutely, which is, that was Ucic's mob singing and shouting. But in the last 24 hours, Turkey Alisheek has talked about how in the future he could see there being no paper views. I mean, I haven't read the small print in his statement. What's your understanding of that, Mike? Well, look, let's speak broadly first. DeZone has always been about delivering the best sport

at the best value in the widest possible way. So we work with everybody. We work with every platform. We work with every distribution partner. We want to make it available. Then you just steal that down to boxing. What do we want to do in boxing? We want to make the best fights,

and we want to make those, again, accessible as possible. We work with so many. promoters as you know, the model is always evolving and we want to ensure that those best fights happen on our platform, the global home of boxing, and we want to make sure that as many people are watching as possible. So look, we're looking at everything, but the ambition is to deliver packages that work best. I mean, because I did think his statement was rather simple, to be perfectly honest of you, because the reason why we moved to pay-per-view all those years ago in the Tyson days

was because it made the extra revenue available to pay the people for the type of fights that you want to see. And this year, last year and the year before, have been bumpy years for DeZone. I mean, that's not me working as the DeZone publicist. That's just the fact. And earlier this year, we had, obviously,

Connor Ben and Chris Eubank, just a sort of a typical, oh, not another 67,000 outdoor, outdoor stadium fight. It's been a ridiculous ride you've been on at the Zone. It's been amazing. And look, it's a bit of a marketing line,

the global home of boxing, but it's absolutely undeniable, or you could say undisputed, this week. As I say, we work with over about 40 different promoters. We're going to do over 185 live events this year on DeZone. We're available in over 200 markets.

So people see us, you know, we're obviously here in the UK at Wembley Stadium. But, you know, we're not just about the UK. We're massive in Germany, we're massive in Italy, we're massive in Spain. We've got a huge business now in Australia. We've just acquired Foxtel.

So we're truly global. Boxing's a global sport. We're investing more in this sport than any other platform. You look now, there's no boxing currently on Sky. There's no boxing currently on TNT. You want to watch boxing. Oh, no. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

There's no need for that, Mike. Don't worry. It's all about the BBC. And one day, maybe we'll tell people the story about how, you know, you may have greased the wheels. for this fight ending up on BBC. But look, that's X-rated stuff, that's X-rating stuff. Let me ask you a final question.

I mentioned there Connor Ben and Chris Eubach, which was heremark for September 20th, and we've been talking about it. We've been not press releases, but people have been putting out statements, and we thought we were going to have a massive conference next week, which I understand is, can you give us any insight into that fight stalling

or being delayed or actually it's all okay? It's just going to be announced next week. officially. Any insight? You know the wonderful world of boxing far better than I do. It's a moving feast. It's an evolving landscape. It's fluid, Mike. It's fluid.

And particularly when the U-Banks are involved, nobody's ever sure what's going to happen. But the first event, which again was live on DeZone, was a brilliant, brilliant fight. If we see it again, great. If not, there's some massive fights for Connor and of course for Chris. So they'll figure it out

and I'll either go and meet together in September or they'll go their own path and I'm sure those guys will have, you know, big fights ahead. But this week, this weekend, I'm telling you something, this is not just, if Daniel Du Bois wins and I think he's got a really good chance of winning, this isn't just a boxing story. This is a massive UK story.

Bigger than sport even. This will be front page newspapers. All four belts for the first time in the heavyweight. Don't upset Josh Taylor. And if he does it, that's an unbelievable story. unbelievable achievement and the only place you can watch his Steve is live on the same. No, no, Edson, you know, people sometimes say to me, Bunce, you know when you speak to those guys from DeZone, ask them some hard questions.

And I say, okay, what hard question will I ask them? There isn't a hard question. His bottom line is, things are, I mean, apart from Turkey Outer Sheikh's comments about pay-per-view, I want to get rid of paper-views, there are no hard questions. They're straightforward questions because every single thing, I mean, if we're having 67 casually, 100,000, then another 70,000. than another 100,000. I mean, I've been around a while.

If we had one of those a decade in the 70s and the 80s, in the 90s, we would have been happy. We're getting four a year. So just do the sums on that. And people take it for granted, you know. By the way, it's just a normal. Exactly, as you say.

It's also an amazing thing about UK. I've always said the thing about British sports fans. If there was a sport for watching sport or supporting sport, we'd win every medal. It's unbelievable. The people that they come out. They come out. They turn up.

They watch, they support their own. Daniel is in his backyard, but we've got a guy here in Alexander Usik who beats Brits for fun. He loves the backyard as well. It's a tough task with Daniel. But I think if anybody is going to do it right now, Daniel's the guy to do it,

and he's going to do it right here at Wembley Stadium, live on design. And did you mention that we've got a rematch clause for October? Come on, Mike. Give me something. Give me something, Mike. Give me something, baby. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. The amazing thing about heavyweight boxing is you never know, right?

If it's a brilliant fight, we'll want to see it again. If it's not, we move on. Mike, thanks so much your time. Thanks so much, Steve. So that was Mike Rid out there, being honest and straightforward with a situation. Good times, glory times, whatever you want to call them. And just to say that we will be live on 5 live from 8pm at ringside.

Big Ron would be with me, Ronald McIntosh, Stacey Copeland would be with me, Olympic medalist and former world champion, Richie Wooder would be with me. and the smooth voice himself, Darren Fletcher, will be presented. We'll be live from 8 o'clock. And I think the ring walks will be about 9.45-ish. There is a very strict 11 p.m. curfew.

It will be a great fight. It will be a terrific fight. Even if it ends in two rounds, there will be so much drama. And that's because there's so much tension. You can sense that. Ossick knows he's fighting a different Daniel Dubois. And Daniel Dubois knows that he's getting in the ring as a different man.

He's unrecognizable. As he said to me, I'm not the same man, Buncey. I'm not the same man. He's not. And that's what I think makes this such an entertaining fight. It's that double jeopardy.

It really is. Usik against Dubois, live on Five Live from 8pm, as I say, ring walks about 945. It's been a long week. It's been a good week. We've still got the weight in to go,

and then we've got the weight on Saturday. The first ever undisputed heavyweight championship fight to take place in Bray. Britain. Arlie didn't do it when he fought Cooper in 1966 and Brian London in 1966. Frank Bruno didn't do it when he won the world title. Lennox Lewis didn't do it when he defended the world title. No, this is it. This is the first time it's happened. Daniel Dubois got one belt and Alexander Ussick's got three. It's undisputed.

It's history. I've been Steve Bunce and this has been five live boxing. Hello, Chris Jones here from Rugby Union Weekly. We're all over the Lions Tour of Australia. post-match podcast on the whistle podcast from all the Lions matches down under. We also have a special Lions Top Ten series. We're two greats of Lions Rugby, Matt Dawson,

Jamie Roberts, and we've been ranking everything from icons. Two, controversies. We've got moments, tours. Tries. You're in the controversies, Matt? Right at the top. Jamie, you're in the controversies too?

Indirelli. Not your fault. It is all there. Two men who have been there, done it. And won it on a Lions tour. Get it now. Lions Top Tens on Rugby Union Week. on BBC Sounds.