5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Usyk, Verhoeven and a Couple of Pyramids

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Can a kickboxer with just one pro boxing fight really become heavyweight champion of the world? That’s exactly what Rico Verhoeven is aiming to do as he prepares to face Oleksandr Usyk in front of the pyramids of Egypt this May. Buncey speaks to both fighters, as well as Verhoeven’s trainer Peter Fury and promoter, Eddie Hearn.

This is Five Live Boxing. You might want to close your eyes because I want you to picture this. Sunset. The desert. Two giant pyramids. Loads of lights shining down on a 22-foot square ring. In one corner, Alexander Usik, the untouchable generational heavyweight great. In the opposite corner, Rika Verhoeven, a generational great.

kickboxer. What a fight. May 23rd, it is, but I've sat down with the pair of them. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. So when you get together for a World Heavyweight title fight and I use that, you know, a few question marks around that, but it doesn't matter. It's a World Heavyweight champion fighting somebody who's a World Heavyweight Champion in his arena. We do these interviews in funny places, odd locations, but you have to start. The only way you start is with the promoter of the show. Now Eddie Hearn has promoted in various places But he's never promoted in the sand

In the shadow of the pyramids That's because no one's ever promoted in the sand And in the shadow of the pyramids Ed, I am I'm deeply interested in Have you seen the floor plan for this? Yes I mean As I'd like to say that obviously if it was me

You know this is in partnership with Ring Magazine And Turquella Shake etc If I was doing a show by the pyramids We'd get there and you'd go where are the pyramids? And I would say, look, if you look right there in the distance, you can just see one of the... This is at the foot of the pyramids.

This is right in the middle. Yeah, and actually the kind of AI-generated sort of production-scale sites and images that I've seen are... It's going to be... What, like, you know, I think... It's a chuckler. Yeah, but like Times Square was really interesting

and obviously the plans of Alcatraz and stuff like that. But this is... Different level. talking about a global landmark that is quite breathtaking in itself. Put a boxing ring there. Put the World Heavyweight Championship there. Put a great undercard there as well. And I think it's going to be saying we'll never forget.

Might we go on a global sights tour? Yeah, possibly. I mean, anything's possible. Tars Mahal. I mean, things are going. Yeah. Why not? Why not?

Great for boxing. Yeah. Because it seems to be the only sport that's doing stuff like that. So, you know, I think we're all sort of riding, on the wave of it and we look forward to an incredible event in Egypt and we'll ask you specifically

about Big Rico and Alexander Usik, a fight you know very well but I've got to address some of the things from this last weekend, the last few weeks because it was quite, it was well it was great drama bad drama quite uplifting quite ridiculous

I'm not sure where to start but I will start first of all with your position at ringside five or six feet from Conor Ben's corner sitting next to Chris Eubank Jr. Now, who arranged that? No, you know, it's weird. He was actually, the seating arrangement was me, A.J., Chris Eubank Jr. And Chris just come and sat next to me.

I mean, he didn't say anything. But I didn't actually think too much of it. But then you sort of pick up social and it's like, oh my God, Conrad's Ben's fighting Eddie Hearn sitting next to Chris Eubank. So, yeah, it was an interesting dynamic. Did he talk to you? No. Didn't talk to you?

No. I was trying to... I said to him, congratulations on the birth of your children. Children. And he looked at me and nodded. I went, good chat. And then when he left after the fight, he was talking to AJ and he said,

see you later, AJ, take care. And I was right there. I thought, I wonder if I'll get a goodbye. It's going to be me next. And I didn't. And then as he walked off, of AJ went, Chris, Eddie said goodbye. And he smirked and I put my fist up

and he jabbed my fist. Not intentionally, physically, but it definitely hurt. And smirked and sort of had a wry smile. So it was all right. It was good fun. That was all part of a good fun night. Now it did end in,

I'm not quite sure what to say, pantomime fast, whatever. With obviously Tyson Fury in the ring sending out a challenge to AJ and he was isolated on his own at a point sitting down and Turkey out of shake an hour earlier saying I'm going to announce the biggest fight in British boxing history. It was a bit messy. Yeah, very.

It was a bit messy. And I spoke to Lennox Lewis when it was over late at night, about 1 o'clock in the morning, walking to our cars. And he thought that it was unnecessary what happened. What was your take on it? Ed? Well, look, the first thing's first is the fight's not done. And the fight's not signed. Right? So what are we doing? We're announcing a fight that's actually actually not done or not signed. Because we all know it's been discussed. There's a very good chance.

And we're in deep, active negotiations. And I expect it to get done. But quite frankly, how many times have we been here before when it's not happened? 20 times when it's done. AJ's not the kind of guy. You know, he said to me, he goes, I don't want to trick the public and get in the ring to announce a fight that's just not signed. And by the way, it's not that I don't think I'm going to sign,

but I don't trust anybody to get this fight done until both guys have signed and when they have I'll come face to face with him and it will get lively but until that moment what are we doing?

We're like, we're pretending that it's not. So, you know, there were talks earlier on in the night about AJ getting into the ring. Whilst you were there like whilst you were having a couple of...

When I first turned up at the... Yeah. And I said, I very much doubt it but he's his own man and let's, see what happens in the fight and we'll go from there. And in about the sixth or seventh round,

I turned to AJ because I was asked if he'd get in the ring after. And I said, what do you want to do, mate? And he went, what do you mean? I said, do you want to get in a ring? He said, why? For what? I said, well, it's like, high, putting it. I'm not interested in.

It's his night. He's fighting. Yeah. That was communicated. And they said, well, look, he may come over, Fury, and call you out. I said, cool, you can do what he wants. We'll just sit here. And then, you know, I liked it.

I mean, the images were iconic. And I thought, AJ, it's hard to say AJ played a blinder because he didn't play anything. He was just AJ. It did come across well, no. And yeah, but he's like, look, I'm ready. And I think that, you know, Lennox, I don't often agree with Lennox, but I've really agreed with him. By the way, I don't often.

and agree with Lennox on his, on his comments about AJ. Yeah. But I did agree with him when he said, look, you got to remember, this guy, it was only a couple of months ago. Yes. You know, when he came through that terrible accident where he lost his two close friends. So we're in a really, like all things considered, we're in a good place for his boxing. Okay.

He's physically almost recovered, not quite. Yeah. Mentally, I'm not sure you ever recover, but box. is keeping him focused and keeping his spirits up. So, you know, that has to be respected as well. And we will do everything at our own speed and our own pace. People don't have to worry. Our intentions are to fight Tyson Fury.

There is no doubt. But I'm also not going to be in a position where I'm pushing this guy, given everything that's happened. I will let it unfold at his pace. And that pace is that we have contracts. we're reviewing contracts, we're making our comments, and we will move forward in a professional manner with speed to try and get this all done.

And I expect it to get done, but not at someone else's speed. Tyson benefited from the 12 rounds. I know there was a lot of repetition, but it was a good way to shake off a bit of ring rust. Would you insist or would AJ insist on having a similar workout or could he in fear go straight into a fight? he could go straight in, but I don't think it would necessarily, I don't say it would be fair,

but I just feel like with everything that he's been through, I think it would be the sensible thing to do. By the way, you know, they're trying to now claim that the Jake Paul fight, well, that was his warm-up. You know, I mean, like you said, Tyson had 12 rounds with Mac Moodov, which was a great prep. Cut prices, couldn't buy. And we had four rounds against Jake Paul. I mean, it's a little bit different. Eugiza who ran around a ring all night and then got his jaw busted respect to him for what he did but still it's not a warm up. And then

by the way we had what happened so all the discussions at the moment are about fight in July and then fighting Tyson Fury in November and we're happy with that route. Could you just clear up the Croke Park Katie Taylor somewhere on a bill with AJ and Fury

where are we with that? How much truth is there in that? So Croke Park was originally mentioned for summer fight. Now we're talking about November, December. So Croke Park is not on the agenda.

And by the way, Katie Taylor is certainly, regarding Anthony Joshua against Tyson, Fri, which is the biggest fight in boxing, right? Probably the biggest fight ever. In British boxing.

And one of the biggest fights ever in world boxing. Agreed. There is no way Katie Taylor is going on an undercard at Croke Park. Before the bell. No. because Croke Park is Katie Taylor.

Croke Park is for Katie Taylor. Croke Park is for her legacy. Croke Park is for the history. Croke Park is for everything she's given to Irish Bull and everything she deserves. And by the way, she's more than humble enough to go on that undercard. I would never let her.

So I'm going to Croke Park on Friday. And the conversations are very positive, but I'm going not for a Tyson-Vuey-Anty-Joshua fight. I'm going for a Katie-Taylor fight. And that's what we look to happen. By the way, in the summer, not November, December, when AJ might be fighting. So, you know, I think that obviously Croke Park

have had some conversations with Seller and stuff like that. I think maybe in their mind, they think they're still in the running. And, you know, I know anything's possible, but for me, no. You know, and we want to move forward with a Katie Taylor event in the summer. Anything is possible.

We're going to be at the pyramids. Let's get back to the sand, the dust, the pyramids, and Cairo off in the distance. The moon's going down or coming up, the sun's going down. It's an unbelievable night. Rico's coming to the ring and he's a big lump. Alexander Usick's coming to the ring with AJ probably and he's on,

on Turaj. What happens? Stingding first bill? I mean, look, I think that you got to be concerned by Rico's delusion. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. Because he signed up to fight Anthony Joshua. And you saw what happened to Francis Inganu. But then, by the way, when AJ...

I felt what happened to Angano. I was that close to the ring. But when AJ had his accident, he then flipped and signed up to fight Usik. So I mean, how's your heavyweight debut going on? I mean, yeah, exactly. So you have to be concerned by that. Then you meet him and you shake his hand and you realize this is one of the biggest monsters you've ever meet.

This is not a YouTuber. This is one of the greatest kickboxers of all time, who, by the way, has good hands and he's a good technical boxer. He's been to boxing gyms for 15 years. Exactly. However, he is fighting the pound for pound number one, but it's heavyweight boxing. So I think Rico's not deluded where he's thinking, I'm going to go in there and out-box him.

He's going to go in there and try and take the fight to him and try and land and hurt him. So I think it's a mountain to climb. In fact, it could be a pyramid to climb. I'm going to use that and the press are coming up. But it is heavyweight boxing. And I never thought Francis and Garnu had a shot against Tyson Fury. You know, I thought he arguably beat him that night.

He dropped him. Could have got it. And this is heavyweight boxing. And Rico's a big man that can punch. Edda, could I ask you one final question? It's a travel question. Have you actually been to the periods before? Do you realise how big they are when you're...

No, I've only ever driven by them some distance away. They take your breath away. So I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait. I mean, you know, this is a life experience, let alone a job experience. Eddie Hearn there, the promoter of this particular fight.

Now, I've sat down with some great sportsmen and women over the last 35, 36 years, and what makes the great one stand out? Isn't just their ability in the story? swimming pool on the track, on the pitch or in the ring. It's their ability to charm you away from this, but well, this big lad can do it. Rickoverhoeven. Well, to be honest, we were in Spain on training camp because I was actually preparing for Anthony Joshua. Of course. And then, of course, the news was already out that he had the accident, which was horrible, and the five was derailed.

So we had no clue what was going to happen. And at a certain moment, we were talking with the promoters. And it came up that, yeah, we had no clue like when he was going to be back and what was next. So, okay, we left it at that. And then me and the team just discussing like, okay, what could be next then for us? because there wasn't like a right-away solution or other opponent. And then we were like, okay, who's out there for us?

That makes sense for us as an undisputed kickboxing champion. And that's how we came up with Alexander Usik. So let me get this right. There are 1,300 heavyweights in the world registered. And one of the top ones, Anthony Joshua, can't fight you because he's not in the right place after the crash. And then you sit down with your team in Spain, Peter Fury and the rest of the team,

and say, who can we fight? And instead of choosing maybe one of the top 50 heavyweights, you choose the number one heavyweight. Yes, sir. That's the story. That's true. That's a story. It's a true story.

Why? Because I'm the undisputed kickboxing heavyweight world champion. So you have to fight somebody that makes a true story. sense. Yeah. And so you cannot like take a 50 number 50 ranked guy or whatever. So he's like, why not go for the guy that's considered as unbeatable? And that's also the undisputed heavyweight champion and that's beaten everybody. Exactly of everybody. So we're like, yeah, that makes sense. Let's let's at least talk about it and give them the suggestion,

how we look at it, undisputed it versus undisputed. And I hear one thing, we love it. I can tell you love it. No, no, that's what I said. That's what the promoters said. They said we love it. We loved it already. We know that you obviously only had the one official professional contest,

boxing contest, whatever it was, 11, 12 years ago. But you have been in and around boxing gyms for a very long time, and you've shared the ring with an awful lot of boxes. Do you think that the Ussick people were aware of that when they said yes to you? I think so. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. But for me, looking at how he approaches the sport and how his team approaches it,

I definitely think they did their research before accepting a fight like this. What is it that makes Alexander Ussk so special, Rico? As a sportsman? I think he has the champion mindset. He's always training, always his own biggest critic, try to improve, always working hard, never underestimating nobody, and those things are the key ingredients of being a champion. And are those the ingredients that you have in your sport

that you never underestimate anybody, that you're always training? Yes, sir. That's the kind of the way your mind works as well. Yeah, 100%. And you've shared the ring with a lot of big heavyweights. Tell me, I know you shared the ring with Tyson Fury before the Vladimir Klitsko fight many years ago in Dusseldorf, and you shared the ring with him in that fight.

Who else have you shared with you spard with? Cabo Yao, Adelaide, Dillion White. So a lot of the top 10 guys you've shared the ring with? The Ui Fury, yeah, like I said, so many guys. Do you ever regret maybe not concentrating, not concentrating on boxing and going with the sport you chose, where you are untouchable and you are God. Godlike. I know that.

Everyone I talk to says, Steve, Rico is the king. Yeah. No. This is what the dream was. I was nine years old. And that's when I saw my idol, Peter Arts, become champion in his career for the third time. and I was like, wow, that's what I want. I want that belt and everybody going crazy.

That's the dream. So when that dream came to fruition in 2013, and we just like, we kept going and we did a boxing match and we did an MMA match with in between. And I got an amazing offer for kickboxers. Like, yeah, let's just stay at what we're doing because it's going so well and I'm getting paid amazing, so I have an amazing life, so why would I change?

And at a certain moment, I set the bar so high, I was like, wow, how amazing is that that we could have done, that we done this as a team in a hole, that we put the bar so high for the next generation and now getting a challenge like this is like out of this world. RICO, I've been around fighters for a long time. Yes, sir. And I'm looking at you, and you just want to fight.

You are really happy about this. You can't wait to get in that ring in front of those pyramids. Exactly. Exactly. You're like a child. You're just desperate. You just really want this fight. Yeah, for me, it's like this is what I do.

And I totally understand how people look at it. And he's like, ooh, Alexander, he's the young beat, he beat this guy. He knocked out that guy. I'm like, for me, he's a guy. with two arms and two legs. So, yeah, he's just a human being. I do the same thing, and this is what he does. I was talking to Peter Fury, who's a good old friend of mine,

and he was saying, you know what, Steve, these two? I won't impersonate him. He said, these two, he said, they're like the same kind of guys. They're decent. They're nice guys. They're good guys. Have you spent any time with Alexander on the sort of, on the tour? So you've seen him, but you haven't sat down and had meals.

No, we just met today for the first time. That's that right? I didn't realize that. This is literally the first time we met and we spoke on the phone like briefly before like six, seven weeks ago. So how was it meeting him first face to face today first time? Yeah, it was cool. For me, like I said, it's just a human being. Just, yeah, a champion that I admire for what he has done within the sport of boxing.

It's like I take my head off for that. And we'll hear from Peter Fury, who's been around Rico Verhoeven for dozens of years, a bit later on the pod. Now, it's not often that Alexander Usik gets relegated to third place on the pod because, let's face it, he's a great fighter, he's a great talker,

he's a great character, he's a great human. But today, he is in third place. I think it's a dangerous guy. He was a fighter, big guy. For me, it doesn't matter who my opponent but for me important it's a fighter but it's not a dancer guy yeah it's not funny easy i don't know octar it's a fighter it's a fighter but i uh i serious training my

prepare heart but a lot of people say hey it's a show yes it's a show all boxing all all all as a show. I think it's a tough guy. Have you had to do anything different in the gym, any different sparring partners, anything different in your head? Not. Different sparring partner.

But my prepare is not different. We build my prepare on my opponent. Yeah, sometimes we're different, but not more because a lot of time we do it. This, but sometimes only different sparring partner. And will this be your only fight this year? Maybe not. Maybe this is, and last year, December, November, maybe we see.

And in your camp recently, you had Anthony Joshua. How was that? Was that nice for you? Yes, AJ back yesterday in camp. Yeah, good time, you know. Now we're training together. But AJ a little bit early. Different parts of training.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes we have together training, but not every time. But when we have together, we joke, we speak, you know. Now we have more joking because stop Arthada's fasting. Yeah, now we take Esther, happy Esther. Now we start her music. but before I come training as like a quiet I just training and pray training

but after pray now I pray of music and I'm training and is AJ as good a dancer as you I think I'm better dancer but AJ good speaker rap good rapper yeah

yeah Oof. Is AJ going to Egypt with you? I think yes. If AJ came back in the summer and had a fight, would you be part of his team? I think yes. I think yes because I believe this is a guy's future

undisputed champion or heavyweight boxing. And this is the sign you wrote in the gym for next year, that he will be undisputed next year? Yes, yes. You believe that, Alexander? I believe this. I believe that and all my team believed that and

I pray every day I say God please if we deserve please give me and then the one gift. Does this mean that you will be gone next year? Maybe. I don't know.

I don't know. What will you do? You have to stay with us. What will you do. I will work with you. Maybe doesn't give me a chance and send me. I will work on TV. Maybe expert. Oh. You are expert. Yes. Expert. Maybe work at the Olympics. You can get some work as a pundit. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Listen, I cannot go because I love. I love. You have your and UK fans and all boxing fans. And Tyson Furious talked once more about fighting you

in fight number three. Would you be interested in that? Maybe, maybe, listen. I said, hey, listen, maybe we have a trilogy. Tyson, hey, Usik, get out, you sausage, you said, now, you know, last time. Oh, maybe a trilogy. Hey, Gritty Belly, what happened?

Gritty Belly. I'm ready, no problem. Do you miss Tyson Fury in the business? I miss Tyson Fury in the business because it's a great fighter and great crazy man. And final question about Rico. What is most dangerous about Rico? What is his most dangerous thing? Yeah, listen, it's a big guy.

It's a big guy. This is a guy, one of the dangers like a punch. It's a big guy, yeah. More 100 kilos and for me it's a serious fight. He is also fearless. He has no fear. It's good. It's good.

It's very good. That's Alexander Usik in great form, still fighting the good fight. Now, Peter Fury has worked with fighters all of his life. He's had Rick Overhoven in various gyms, in various camps, in various parts of the world for an awful long time.

And he will be the man leading Verhova now underneath the stars in the shadow of the pyramid. Peter knows his boxing. Lovely kid, Rico. He's a lot, I said he's a lot like Usik. Same mentality.

That's a really good power, though, yeah. Two good people. It's nice to see them. It's nice to see for once two real genuine heavyweights collide. And icons in their individual sports. In their own ride-out. Listen, who's a legend.

Absolute. Nobody could criticize anything he does. The top guy, in and out of the ring. And you've got to say the same for Rico, what he's achieved in kickboxing. Same thing. Now, I know kickboxing is a lot closer to boxing than say most of the MMA fishing.

Most of the MMA fighters. But Molly McCann talked about how she had to reprogram herself to switch from boxing to MMA originally and then from MMA back to boxing. Is there a massive deprogramming process with RICO or is it just a bit of fine-tuning to get him to come a boxer, not a kick-boxer? I think with RICO, look, it's always, when you're in camps, you're always fine-tuning stuff Steve.

Yeah, good point. And kickboxing is not boxing. No. You know, the stances are different. There's a lot of things. So they punch differently? Very differently? Not so much with Rico

because he's been boxing with us a long time So his punches a good Yeah So he punches like a boxer He punches like a boxer for sure But it's always been boxing To help his kickboxing In the past

Now it's boxing for boxing So that's the difference That's where we are When you say he's been around How long has When did you start working with Rico When did Rico first show up in one of the gyms here? It'll be 15 years ago now

Wow I knew it's about 12 in Holland and Belgium. Wow. Because I used to have the training camps out there all of them years ago. And, yeah. So he's been working with us ever since then.

Wow. But not on and off. We've always been a part of his camp. Yeah, I know that. That's awesome. You've been talking about him for a long, long time. Exactly. So when, say for the first Tyson Fury

against Vladimir Klitska, was he a round in that game? Yes, he was, yeah. Was that the one when he did some rounds with Tyson? Yeah, he did. He's done a lot of rounds with Yui. Tyson, Dillian White at the time. I think he could have done someone, Stephen Cunningham, Eddie Chambers.

Wow. He's been around. He's boxed with all the guys that's in the top weight division, really. When this fight came up, Peter, did he discuss with you? What was your instant reaction when he said, I've got a chance of fighting Usset? What was your instant reaction? I think it's fantastic.

I think it's great because it's intriguing for me. me to see how we can adapt with such a great champion, you know, which is a good point. And that's the thing, you know. It's not just a boxer, that's Usik. Listen, Usik is a special, special individual. So he's a generational talent. So it's going to be, I'm interested to see when the first bell goes, how it goes down. If you'd have, if, if Recode walked into your gym, 18, 16, 17, 18 years ago, just to become a boxer,

if he was just a boxer, how far could he have gone? I know we're dealing with fantasies and play, but your experience tells you how far he could go. How far could he have gone, Peter? For me, Rico, his mindset, how he goes about his business, he would have been a world champion for sure, even in boxing. So he's excelled in his own sport. He's a legend in his sport.

You know, nobody's ever come anywhere near to what he's a gene. That's the feeling I'm getting when I'm doing a bit more research and work, is that he's a god over there. The main thing he's got is his drive. You know, even where he is today, he's very highly driven. You know, he's looking for challenges. And when he's seen Usik was available, he said, wow, my dreams is comfortable. So he's one of them.

The higher he can go, the better he does for him. Because one of the problems with Usik, and there were hundreds of points of Ucich, is that there's no chance, unlike some heavyweights, that Ussick would underestimate RICO. No, he won't. Unfortunately, so you... I wish he would.

that's what I'm trying to say that might have was all over that's not going to happen that's what I'm trying to say without trying to say yeah if he was in a some of the heavyweight champions

we've had over the last 25 years they might not take Rico seriously but Ussick's going to isn't he? 100% he is no question he'll train for Rico

just as hard as he's done everybody else that's what makes him the champion he is nobody's catching Uc Usik asleep no no one yet he's not nobody

He's taking the day off. Yeah. You know, he's fully committed to it. Peter Fury, yet another one of the geysers, who will be in Geyser. That's the last time I'm going to use the joke. Trust me. May 23rd, it's a special fight. The WBC have made a special belt for it.

We're still a bit unclear about whether or not it is a heavyweight defense by Usset. Well, he's fighting a heavyweight and he's defending a WBC belt. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, it's a heavyweight defense. Don't start screaming. Don't start shouting. It's our business. It was a delight to talk to all the people today. I've been Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. BBC Radio Five Live.

Patrick Kudzee. Stumble in your way into Saturday mornings with great guests. Good morning, Jimmy Nesbitt. Good morning, the party. You're terrible. Kids taking down commentators. You've wiped the floor with our commentator, Kay. How does it feel?

It feels nice. Football chants from the gods. Take me all. Like it wrong And the last set about the host, the better. Patrick Kilty. Saturday's from 9. Listen on BBC Sounds.