5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Wardley v Dubois: Frank Warren

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Can Frank Warren really stay neutral when two of his fighters are battling it out for the world heavyweight title? Buncey sits down with the Queensberry boss to get his thoughts ahead of Saturday night’s huge dust-up, plus they discuss Arsenal’s hopes of getting the job done in Budapest in a few weeks’ time. We also hear from Daniel Dubois’ manager and advisor, Sam Jones.

This is Five Live Boxing. It's been a heavyweight week here in Manchester. We were on and off of buses with the boxers. Then open top buses, of course, display buses. They weren't catching a bus to go and eat or anything silly like that. And then they pitched a ring in a sandpit, in a play area, in the centre of town. The public came out. It was a lovely night. Now I'm inside the Co-op Live Arena.

Gonna sit down with Frank Warren get his thoughts on yet another heavyweight bonanza. I might sound like a cliche. It might sound like a cliche. What else you're gonna call it? It's the heavyweight championship of the world. Fabio Wardley, Daniel Dubois on Saturday night. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. In fact, before we talk boxing,

I've got to talk a little bit about what happened at the Emirates the other night. Now, I wasn't there, I watched it on TV, but was it as ecstatic and as good as it looked on television? After the last couple of years, the atmosphere has really picked up. Before that, it wasn't such a great atmosphere, not like Highbury was. But that's the best atmosphere ever they've had there. It was electric.

I mean, the place was alive. And it wasn't just at the end. It was all the way through. You know, the fans really got behind them, lifted them, pushed them. And it was just brilliant. All of us were engaged and involved in it because it was a big moment in time. for us as Arsenal fans. I remember Paris 2006.

I remember I remember I was stuck and you sorted out some tickets with someone from my TV about an hour to go before the kickoff. I was with my son, it was 11. And I remember how deflated that was but then looking back on it, it was still a great event. And that was a loss, it was still a great event.

Well, it was, I mean, but we lost our goalie. Yeah, it got sent off. Yeah, it just didn't happen for it. And we've done really well. We held on for it. I think it was about 80 minutes. It was, yeah. It was doing okay, and it just, you know, it was.

But this time round, I really fancy us. We've already beaten them. Yeah. You know, I've had a little bit of moan about Arsenal when they lost that bit of form since Christmas and whatever. But when you look at where they are, they're high scorers in the league. Yeah.

with people. I mean, I mean, look, we'll get to the box in a minute. Because I was on Darren Fletcher's football show about six weeks ago and he asked me, I said, it just happens. It's like nerves and the pressure gets you know, it doesn't matter how much they're being paid and how professional they are, nerves and pressure can get to. We've seen it with fighters, you see it with players.

I don't know if it's nerves or what. It was just, it was like a loss of form. And what it was, we was getting beaten by by teams we should have been winning it and just basically just give away, you know, my opinion, give away a huge points advantage we had. But but we had.

But now, here we are. You know, everybody was having their money on Mans City, wasn't they? And they got, they were lucky to scrape through through all. That was nuts. The weekend. So it's been exciting. It's exciting time. And, you know, if you want to be the best, it's like boxing.

You've got to beat the best. So we've got to beat, you know, keep winning our matches. And then we beat Mancissis at the end of day because we're the better team consistently. And good news that whoever came to you about two and a half months ago and said, we got May 30th, Frank. We can get Moses on May 30. If we can get another good fight on May, really good, you didn't get a May 30 date?

Yeah, we didn't. We've had a result there. So, anyway, I'm off to Budapest. We're all going there, and we're taking our tents with us, and we're going to watch the match. If you can get a campsite. Right, let's talk about this fight. You talk about if you've got a fight the best, to beat the best.

That might be the case with both Daniel Dubois, who's had to go in with hard fellas, win or lose, he's gone in with him. And especially Fabio Wardley, in with Halfelagh's fight. They're there. They're like a small hall journeyman in the sense that they fight anybody. Always come, always fight. You know, literally Fabio's case, just he doesn't care.

Well, Fabio, he's, you know, I mean, they both turn pro on the same date. That's crazy. It's amazing, isn't it? Different circumstances. They both been a pro for the exact same amount of time. In Fabio's case, it's unbelievable what he's done. You know, no amateur experience whatsoever, a couple of those white-collar nonsense fights.

And who would have ever fought in a million years he would be where he is today? I mean, you'd have had a bet with a bet that day, or maybe when he's 10th or 12th fight, he was going to be world champion. No chance. What odds would you got? But he's done it.

Astronomical. And he's done it, and he's certainly last few fights from coming behind. Yeah. And coming behind in a big way and pulling the big one out of bag. And, you know, like he says himself, fights 36 minutes long.

it only takes a second for him. And you look at Daniel, good amateur junior experience, never had a senior about amateur, turned pro when he was 18 with us, and he's been on that journey with us since. He's been in, with some great, tough fighters.

If you look at his resume for his age, he's probably fought the best quality opposition at his age. Take fury out the equation. Yeah, he's not said no to anyone. He has. I mean, you're looking at his, and he was on, before his defeat against, just leave it, before his defeat against Usick,

and there was a lot of stuff going on in the background. I'm not making excuses, but there was, and, you know, and Usik's a great fighter, by the way. He was on a tremendous role, tremendous role. And every fight he went into, he was an underdog. Booky's made him an underdog in all those fights. And look what he's done with AJ, he destroyed him. So this now is a meeting of guys who turn pro on the same day,

have a similar style in as much that they walk forward. They don't fight off the back foot. They both are aggressive fighters, both massive punches, both know what's on the line, obviously, with this one. This is a big moment in time for the two guys. And I think it's going to be something extra special. That's why we call it Don't Blink, because you can't afford to blink.

As soon as that bell goes, the way they fight, they'll get straight down on it, they'll start unloading. I mean, the stoppage stroke knockout statistics are quite ridiculous. It's 42 wins between the two of them with 40 stoppages between the two of them. Now, I've had a little look through. And you can't find those stats. You can't find those stats.

As good as that. Well, you can't. Not as good as that. The one you can find, I think, was Herbie Hyde when he fought against Clitchco. Clitchco had 100% record, and he'd done a job. Amil Wall? No, no, no. It was in Norwich.

up that way. Well, it's up that way anyway because I'll put it on. Yeah, you did, yeah. And that's when, Herbie would have been all-stopping. And that's when Clitchko won the title. That's the nearest you're going to get to it. That's those sort of figures.

You know, we talk about, you know, I don't live in the past, you don't live in the past. We have to move forward. That's what I think. Because if you live in the past, it's a dangerous situation. And when I came along, started working this business, as you did with the promoters, you came along side-by-side.

They did live in the past, in my opinion. The people I worked with did live in the past. This period we're going through at the moment, it's five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years, especially the heavyweight period and the all British heavyweight period. It's something that you couldn't have predicted in the early 80s, couldn't have predicted in the early 90s.

It's just, I mean, you know, you put on, say, Oliver McCall and Frank Bruno at Wembley, and it stood alone for 10 years before it and 10 years after it. Right now, it would just be another stadium fight. Well, when I got involved in boxing, when I started promoting, all the British guys heavyweights did.

They fought very valiantly, but they just showed up and got beat in a world title fight and they got stepped up to that level. Joe Buggner was probably the standout far true of all of them. But now, as you quite rightly say, I think in the top 10

there's about four or five Brits. And obviously Ussk's demand. If it wasn't for Usoc, all the best ones would be here in the UK. Well, it'll be yours, far from age, they'd be yours. Well, 10 of the 10 of the 10 of the top 10,

eight of them were signed with us. Includes adjit, Cabo, obviously, the German. And Moses. Yeah, big Moses, yeah. And, you know, and, I mean, Hurgridge is fighting Dave Allen next week, you know, we've got... That's a stadium for four of them.

I know it's not a massive 70,000 stadium, but it's still a stadium heavyweight fire. It's the biggest stadium in his town, and it's their football stadium. It's still a big, man. Still a big fight. Yeah, we get 20, 25 in there, whatever it's going to be. But anyway, the point of all this is,

With us, Queensbury, what we're doing, we're making these fights happen. They're not sitting around. We're not dependent on anybody doing it. We're doing it. And we're making these fights happen on a regular basis. This heavyweight division is active. No one's ducking each other. They're fighting each other.

If somebody gets beat, it's not the end of the world, as we've seen. So, you know, it's good times for the fans to watch these type of fights. And it's certainly good for us as promoters. And it's brilliant for the boxer because they're all learning money and they're fighting regularly. You mentioned Moses there. Moses's date is shifted from end of July to August. The opponent, has the short list become shorter? Or have you got someone in mind? We've got a couple of guys there and we'll make our decision in a couple of weeks' time.

And with regard to Moses, after the last fight, which was in this building in the car, which was fantastically attended. And I thought the atmosphere was incredible. It's the biggest audience Dave had here, boxing audience Dave had here since his heart. That doesn't surprise me. something happened with regards to Moses. Like the last five or six days he took off. Has Moses changed to you?

I mean, when you sit with him and, I mean, he's not the wide-eyed 17-year-old he was three years ago, but are you sensing a different sort of bit of stealing this in him? I think he's got the stealingness in him. I think he's out from day one when I first met him. I think where he has done, he's gone from being a teenager into being a man. And he's matured, not just physically,

as also mentally. and he's a very, he's quite a well-balanced guy. I mean, he's quite articulate and he thinks things through and, you know, if he continues on the path that he's on and achieves what we all think he can be, I think he'd be an icon of British sport, not boxing, British sport. He's a very smart kid. Have you had to say no to anybody with Moses going forward,

one that doesn't fit that could have been made? any opponents? No. And there's been opponents. So that's what I'm getting at. It's been yes, yes. Everybody that's offered or you're chasing people.

You know, we make the matches. You know, we, we, obviously it's a discussion, but we make the matches and that's what we go for. You know, I think we've been doing it a long time now and we've been, I think you would say,

most of the great British fighters, world champions, we've guided them. Yeah. The majority, well, far by far the majority. And we do a good job with them. So let's finish up with Dubois and Wardley. What's your gut feeling, Frank?

The place will be heaving. It's that type of fight, because it's been, everyone knows it's going to be, you know, the type of fight that's not going to let people down. It's not going to be a boxing, defensive, 12-round masterclass. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to be that. What's your gut feeling? And will you go and see both of them on the evening of the fight,

like in the hour or two hours before? Well, I'm answering that last question first. Of course, I will do it to every, you know, to all the guys who are with us going in. Wish them luck. and I hope they get out safely. What will it be like the fight? I think it will be Britain's answer to Haglerherns.

It's got that feeling, isn't it? That's what it'll be. Because it's styles, that's what it would be. It's why we call it don't blink. Don't close your eyes for a second because that bomb can land at any time. And what's your understanding going forward, Frank, for the winner of this?

Does he get to the winner of Usick and Verhoven? No, Ousick's next fight after he has that fight in Egypt, he has to defend his WBC title against Ajik Kabila. If he doesn't do it, he's got to have a vacate the title or they're stripping. And will you push for that to be in Germany?

Because I know you went to Germany was in January and it was off the scale. Well, it ain't going to be in the Ukraine, is it? No, of course. That's true. That's true. But it could be in Saudi, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, and with regards to,

let's assume Moses comes through this August situation, will you push for something from a world title fight for Moses by the end? Or will it just naturally have to be able to May next year? Moses will box for the world title, provided he wins on the 8th of August. He will fight for the world title at the end of the year. So that will be...

100%. That would be his next fight. His next fight will be for the world title. He's number one in the... It'd be number one in the WBC because Lawrence O'Cole is obviously going to be inactive now because of the situation with the PEDs. He's number one in the WBA and he's number one in the WBO.

That's where he's at. That's where we've guided it. him and that's the position we're in. Or he's in, I should think. Continuing with the shopping list, with regards to Titan Fury, is there a suggestion that he, I mean, I know 12 brilliant rounds the other week, which is terrific exactly what he did about 60 months ago. Is there a suggestion he might try and sneak another one in before, in theory, the October

November fight? I think he wants to fight in between because the fight with AJ won't go until November, and that means he's seven, nearly eight months out of the ring again, and he doesn't want that. And would you push for him to do that? Would you? I think it's best for him to be active. He's a guy who went, I spoke to him this morning. When he's in the gym, he needs to see that he's training,

when he's training for a training full mode, he needs to see something at the end of the day where he's got, he needs a target date for a fight. And that's what will happen, I think. And finally, Frank, and it's not about one of your fighters, but this relationship, this partnership between Ussick and AJ is, it's really a weird bond between the tournament. They're both going to be in each hour,

as they go as they go forward. Do you think that has any, do you think that would be beneficial for AJ? Again, it's not your fight. I'm asking you a question. You know, he's jumped about a bit lately, isn't he? That's what I'm saying. And I don't like that in any fighter.

I don't like that. I think fighters should be settled with the people he's with. AJ, Tyson will knock him out. He will knock him out. And if he fight, and I would like him to do, I'd love him to fight Moses because he would do the same thing. I think you talk about you will go and see the pair in the dressing room beforehand.

Well, they're both your fighters. How does that, I know you've had it in the past, but how does that work when you're ringside? How does it work? You allow it to show you emotions. It's difficult. Enjoy, quotes, unquote. It's very difficult. You're sitting on your backside, but we're in professional boxing.

And it gets to a stage where, you know, the best around fight the best. And that's what it is. They're pros. They get well paid. And at the end of the day, want to win and one or lose. and it's all about regrouping of being there lots and lots of times over the years.

I could name of lots and lots of time and it's not the end of the world. Having a losing record is not the end of the world. It's how you deal with it, how you come back and regroup and come back and if you can do that

and if you can do that, you're a good fighter. There is no heavyweights out there bar one, Rocky Marciano, no heavyweight champion who was undefeated. It's hard to walk off into the sunset

when you're heavyweight. Tell me about it. It's really hard. Yeah. So Arsenal beat PSG made a 30th in Budapest. Tyson Fury knocks out AJ and Moses gets the spoils with what's ever left of Oosick by the end of the year. That's not a bad last seven months of the year, is it? I quite like that.

You take that? Yeah, yeah. You set for that? Yeah, I forget Christmas. So that was Frank Warren before the press conference. Now the press conference has just finished and you will not be at all surprised to know. And a man going, yeah, yeah, in the background is Sam Jones. And Sam, well, you're part of Dubois team. Yeah.

I would say that you took over that press comments. You seemed fired up. I didn't mean to... What upset you? Hold on a minute. I came in great peace. I came in great peace there. I was giving everyone respect.

And he's actually... This is Michael Opho. I don't even know his name. Michael Opho, whatever his name is, the bad guy, whatever he is. Officially Fabio's manager. Officially Fabio's manager. Okay, yeah. And he came for me.

But listen, I respect Michael Opho. Look, he's up there, getting involved in the pictures. And he's having a great day out. That's where it all ends on Saturday. But you do like this, Sam, don't you? Do you know what, Steve? You're good at this if you don't want me saying so, Sam. I do think I've matured in my old age, right?

But if somebody wants to have a pop at me verbally, I am ready. I'm ready to go, Steve. I'm ready to go. How's he been working with Daniel? I like working with Daniel. He's a charming, nice, sweet boy, and he's just a little bit misunderstood. But like I say, you're not going to get sales pitches from Daniel Dubois. But what you will get is a tremendous jab to the nostrils

and a great performance on Saturday night. And plenty of big right hands afterwards. And also, you know, let's talk, you've alluded there to us. Some people have been critical of Daniel's press performances. That's just, I find that, Sam, unbelievably unfair if you don't mind. Especially in Fire Week. What's your gut feeling on that?

Listen, you can criticise his sales pitch is all you want. I think he should be judged. I'll leave that rubbish to me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Leave that to me. He let him judge him on his performances on Saturday night. Yeah.

This fight, Sam, and this business, I know that you were an NASM Hammid fan. I know we did so at once with you, you talked about making your... Look, you're a big smile on your face. When you're making your nasium hammer shorts and jumping all over your sofa in front of your mum. That's lovely.

But this business has last 15 years, Sam. It's ridiculous. This last 10 years, 7 years, 8 years of super fights, heavyweight fight. Yeah, there's been loads of them. Stadium fights, it's nuts. Yeah, there's been lots of it. A British boxing's flying.

I think it's the best time. I think this is the best fight that you can possibly make. I really do. I think it's two guys in their physical primes, and I think it's a stunning fight. Would you take this? If you're the Rolls with us, you work with Fabio. Yeah.

Would you take this Dubois fight? Yeah, because it's the best money. All that, listen, I've got a lot of time for Fabio Wardley. You won't catch me digging Fabio. I know that. I know that. And he's took this fight because it's the biggest financial fight available. Yeah.

It takes a round set of plums to do it, Steve. But still, he's got to, he's took the fight. Great respect to Fabio. I've got nothing but love and respect for Fabio. And the way that you do your business, Sam, is you can end up working with Fabio in a year, six months. You never know. You never know. You never know in life.

What I will say is, listen, I've been in the opposite corner to Daniel. He talked about me calling Daniel a quitter six, seven years. That's because I've been in the game a lot longer than. No one knew Michael Offoe was until Fabio Wardley made him relevant. So good look to him. Good look to the whole team. I say, I've got a lot of time for Fabio, his team. Lee Wiley's a great man, really great mind.

As I say, an underappreciated guy in Lee Wiley. who look, look at the fighters he's worked with Rob Hodgins, who I think should have been sat up there with Fabio then because he's been with him from the get-go. We did a piece with Rob yesterday. From the get-goes. Rob likes to step back, though, in all fairness. Sometimes, though, he should be involved in these situations

because he deserves it. Yeah. And finally, Sam, what else you've got coming up? Because I'm struggling to keep up with you. Jack Hatchel World Trial fight in Egypt. I was with Giza. I was with Jack in Liverpool, the gym yesterday. Yeah.

By the way, He's the most that happy and relaxed Jack Cattle I've ever, ever seen. I think you're going to see career best performance from Jack on Saturday. I really do. When we go out to Egypt? Yeah, are you coming, Steve? Cool, Sam. Good up.

Sam Jones in Egypt. Yeah, let's go. You can't believe it. Me and you were on the camel, Steve. Oh, no, definitely. Camel racing. You know, I'm a camel tamer, don't you? No, no, no, seriously.

50 camels, Steve Bunsville's right into the middle of them. I'll get a camel in the eye. Let's say you're trained a camel with your eyes. You get eye-to-eye contact of a camel. Well, that's me and you on Saturday. in the pyramids then, Steve. Nice one, Steve. Always good to see you, mate.

So that's Sam Jones there, part of the Daniel Dubois team, part of dozens of fighters' teams at the moment. And I could tell what, on to say this now, he wasn't so keen when I told him about my camel techniques because he knows it's true.

Word has been spreading throughout the boxing business about bunts and camels. Well, it's been a great week already. We've heard from the fighters, we've heard from Frank Warren on today's show, at the start of the week. We looked at the whole week.

On Friday, I'll sit down with Ritchie Woodall, arguably one of the game's smartest men, one of the best tacticians, a technical fighter and a technical trainer, to go down and look at exactly what Fabio has to do to retain his title, and exactly what Daniel Dubois has to do to win a version of the World Championship back.

And then, between seven and nine, on Lord Darren Fletcher's show, there will be a massive boxing influence with half a dozen different fight people there who also know a little bit about football which is handy because it is ostensibly a football show and then on Saturday night 10pm on 5 live from inside this arena where I'm talking to you now

23,000 people and absolute it's going to be looks like it's going to be an absolute sellout the ninth all-British World Heavyweight Championship fight Fabio Ward Leader champion Daniel Dubois, the challenger. And here's just a quick note before I leave you. They've won 42 fights combined. 40 of them have been by knockout.

That's the type of fight we'll be delivering. I'm Steve Bunce, and this is Five Live Boxing. Hello, I'm Nicky Campbell, and this could well be the podcast you've been waiting for. We're calling it, don't say a word, but it could be, don't listen to that song, don't read that book, don't watch that film, don't like that post, don't laugh at that joke.

We're here to help you navigate, to make sense of it all, to keep up. If people aren't up to speed with all of the latest kind of politically correct lingo, they feel isolated and don't want to engage in the conversation, actually retreat into silos. If you sometimes sit on the fence because you're worried about giving offence, hello, you found your podcast. Don't say a word, but do listen to this podcast with me, Nikki Campbell. Listen on BBC Sounds.