5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Whittaker Scrapes Through

Episode Date: October 4, 2026

What did we learn about Ben Whittaker after his unconvincing win over Conor Wallace? Richie Woodhall joins Buncey to pick through the fight and ask why Whittaker faded, whether Wallace could have done more when he had him in trouble, and what the performance tells us about Whittaker’s progress. Plus, we hear from Whittaker himself and his promoter Eddie Hearn.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Your sales order says one thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says, good luck. Odu brings your business together on a single platform, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. Visit Odo.com to book a demo. It's ODbbolo.com.

Whether it's a parley on Sunday or a straight bet on the big game, you get way more with Betway. Must be 19 plus Ontario only. Play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling, visit connectsonterio.ca. This is Five Live Boxing. So Ben Whittaker had to win, and he did. But it wasn't the fight he expected.

Nine rounds, terrific. Three rounds, desperate. And Connor Wallace, he'll be kicking himself that he didn't put the pressure on earlier. It was a memorable fight and a memorable night in front of 9,000 people in Birmingham. I'm Steve Bunce and this is Five Live Boxing. Now there are some nights when you sit at ringside in anticipation

and you expect the fight to play out. When you have a good idea how it's going to end, or you have an idea how it could possibly end. Then you get caught out. Moses Atom of Philip Hergovich, all massively caught out. Even if we knew it would be a hard fight, we were massively caught out by that raw drama that opened up in front of the rise. Well, it's a bit the same tonight, not for 11 rounds.

But the last round, the last three minutes, the 180 seconds of the 12th and final round at the utilitous arena in Birmingham between Ben Whittaker and Connor Wallace was absolutely ridiculous. It seemed to last about five minutes. They were both on the floor a couple of times. Ben Whittaker was on the floor once. Nothing was ruled a knock down. Ben was gripping hold of. They were wrestling. It was an ugly finish, dramatic. finish. And Ben Whittaker at the end, and we're going to hear from him in a moment, was absolutely exhausted. In fact, all of us, it's funny sometimes. Our fights like that drain you. And I mean drain you, leave you drained. And I'm with Richie Woodley, we've gone and found herself a quiet

room backstage, one of the dressing rooms. Next, in fact, Connor Wallace's dressing room. And on the floor, there's some old bandages, there's towels covered in blood, there's drip cans of water, there's bits of tape from where people have had their bandages. The toilet's not particularly pleasant. There's lots of junk. And Richard, I was sitting on a chair and Molly's over there recording us. Richie, I'm not quite sure what happened

in the last three rounds of this 12-round fight tonight. And I certainly don't know what happened in the last round. Try and tell me. Refresh my memory. Well, I don't think you could have a bigger contrast because you're the first nine rounds and the last three rounds. Two fights.

Yeah, you know, going into round six and round seven, it's just one-way traffic. It's Ben more or less controlling things, controlling the pace and it wasn't fought at a fast tempo. It was a pace that he controlled really, really well. And basically you had two boxers that didn't want to really make mistakes. So you had Connor Wallace,

who was totally boxing sort of on his back foot, not coming forward a lot, because he knew early on in the contest when he did occasionally come forward with the odd jab if it was slow. Bang, he got caught. You got caught with shots. Ben looked really sharp, didn't he?

He looked really sharp, really early. Really, yeah, really early. Yeah, but he probably a victim of his own success because he looked too sharp in that Connor then suddenly realized if I go forward against his fellow, I'm just going to get me head knocked off here. So he stayed back and he boxed quite a clever contest, but he didn't do a lot and he lost every single round of the early rounds.

It was just, well, and Steve, there's just no way then could you have foreseen what happened from the ninth round because Ben clearly ran out of gas. Without a shadow of a doubt. That was part of it. That was part one. He ran out of gas. Run out of gas.

Pushed back. Push. He was pushed back. Connor sort of got a sniff of things. He was slowing down a little bit, Ben Whittaker. And, you know, he went on the offensive a little bit more. And probably now he's kicking himself thinking,

I should have gone earlier because he left it to the last three rounds. And he probably, and I think even Tony Bell, you said to him, said to him, you should have gone earlier than that. What he said was, he said to me afterwards, Tony Belly, he was having this sort of frank exchange of words with Connor Wallace, who'd come to the side of the ring where Tony, who was part of the Zones' presentation team.

And Tony was, they were having a frank exchange of words. And what Tony said was, you've only got yourself to blame. You can't complain that you haven't got the decision because you've clearly won three rounds. His dad thinks he won a couple more, maybe five of the seven. And that's the understanding. I spoke to his dad earlier on. That's not a problem.

and he's entitled to that opinion. I didn't think there was a problem with the scores. The three scores were 117 to 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2, then a very close one, a 1-1-5 to 1-1-3, which is really tight. Now, Conor Wallace could have done more earlier. Yes. Which is why we're going to come to that R-word rematch

a little bit later. But what's disappointing, Steve, is that Ben, for me, I thought it was nine rounds to three. I thought, I have Ben. Nine three is how I had it, yeah. I thought Ben, you know, clearly won them as well. What's disappointing is that you win a contest nine rounds to three, but this contest will be remembered for the last three rounds.

And how bad Ben looked in the last three rounds. Yes. Not how good he looked in the opening six or seven rounds. As normal, you've nailed it instantly and quickly. But I can just assure you, just because you've nailed it so quick in a pod, you've still got to stick around and do the other 30 minutes of the pod. Okay, so you may have a little.

now, you may have ended the conversation right this second, but we are going to fresh it out and a little bit more. Because you are absolutely right. I've already had messages saying, oh, he looked rubbish.

And I sent him, I sent replies back, so what did he mean look rubbish? He was brilliant. He was flawless for seven of the nine rounds and he still won nine rounds. Brilliant for the first seven or eight rounds. Come on.

Now, here's the thing, which I made a joke as we were going into the 10th round, which was the first round he definitely lost. Yeah. As we're going into that. I said he's nine rounds up. He's fighting a man that's ranked above him in the world

in front of 9,000 people in his hometown and wait for it. Here's my punchline. And we're looking for things he's doing wrong. That's true. That's what we're like. Because it was a big fight for Ben Whitaker tonight. I know it was a final eliminator for the IBF Teltor currently held,

obviously by Dimitri Bivel. But forget that. That's two grand. Forget that. And we said that in the buildup at 7 o'clock. But it was a big fight because he had to look good. Now, I think he looked terrific in the first 7 or 8 or 9 rounds. But you are so right, Rich.

People are going to remember the 10th when he was stunned and hurt. The 11th when he was pushed back a little bit. And the 12th, when he gripped and held and used all his survival instincts. Is that fair, Ritchie? No, it isn't fair because I still think he boxed really, really well in the early part of the contest. And also, the last three rounds, yes, he came apart a little bit. I think he was definitely affected through being tired.

So fitness. And it's unfair to say he wasn't fit enough. No, he hadn't done 12 rounds, remember? He's never done 12 rounds. He's only done 10 rounds once in his last, I think, four fights. He's only done six rounds in his last four fights. Also, when he done 10 rounds, I was at that fight. It was outdoors at Sellers Park,

because the Palace's ground, on the undercard of the World Title Fire. And how long ago was that? just that, he won every second of every round. Yeah, there you go. So it wasn't a hard 10 rounds, which it was a comedy 10 rounds. So he's in against a tricky opponent who won't come forward. What Ben, you could see what Ben was trying to do early on in the contest.

Stabbing with that jab to the body, which was very good. You can see the class and the skill of the kid Ben Whittaker. He boxes very well at distance. He's boxing against the Southport, who's sitting back, who won't come forward, and you've got to get him trying to come over that front foot. And I thought

he boxed really, really well. He was patient, he was listening to his corner, he was bringing him on to the odd right hand, and he controlled things pretty well and pretty easily. I think what's then going probably through his mind, because I've been there, when you go the 12 rounds for the first time, you hang back a little bit, you think, it is on your mind. Yeah, of course it is. Am I fit enough to do it? He's only gone 10 rounds, and then all of a sudden he's trying this, he's trying that, and the kid is still there, and then the back of his mind, he's thinking, I've still got to go five or six rounds here and so you know it started to affect him then tiredness creeps in fatigue then the guy's a bit

of luck with a big left hands catches him with a couple of good shots and he looks like you know he's a bit of a ragdoll at one point he's thrown all over the place but he gets through it but nevertheless those were probably the reasons why he sort of fell apart towards the end it was an accumulation of he's tried this this than that it hasn't worked at the back of his mind he's still got to go 12 rounds he's never been there before and he got a little bit tired and so yes it'll be unfair to judge him on those last three rounds

what we can say as a positive he got through them he will definitely be better next time because of them because of them and now he will have that confidence that he's gone 12 rounds and there'll be people screaming at this say no no this this that and the other

but trust me he'll be a better boxer through going those 12 rounds and yes it wasn't a hard 12 rounder It was a hard last three rounds. And he'd never been there before. Let's remember. And here's the thing, Rich. He is going to be one of those fighters, Ben.

I hate to use that expression, Marmite fighter, but that's perhaps sums it up. Yeah. If he were to beat Dimitri Bivel, beat Arta Bata Bettebiv, beat every single light heavyweight out there, move up to Cruiserweight, win the Cruzeweight World title at some point in his future. It's like Nassim Hammond did after 34, 35 wins when he lost the Barreira.

People were saying, see, told you he was Robert. So Ben's going to get there. Richard, I'll stop you there because I do want to talk a little bit more about the nuts and bolts of the fight. But I got up at the end with Molly to interview Ben Whittaker up in the ring. And I could see he was talking to Andy Lee, done his interview with DeZone, where there had been discussions about him having COVID recently.

But there's more on that. Don't worry about that. More on the COVID situation. And he came over towards me, and he looked fairly exhausted. He looked a bit glazed. He looked, and I'll be absolutely honest. He was so tired, and he was resting in the corner,

and Andy was looking to me, not glaring, looking at me. I've known Andy a long while, that I was actually thinking of turning to Molly to say, I think we'll just leave this. I think we'll just leave this. But we didn't. I did speak to him. It wasn't an in-depth, intense interview,

but there's a lot of honesty, a lot of raw honesty in his voice. Here I am with Ben Whitaker. I don't know, seven or eight minutes after the verdict was announced. Ben, 12 rounds, an unbelievable 12 rounds. And I said something in Coventry, and I think it's true. It might do on you. That was 12 rounds that might have saved your career.

That's helped make you. 100%, like I said, I've been banging him out, banging him out. And like you said, I hurt him so many times. I said, oh, this is easy, man. And then, like I said, switched up a little bit, got hit. But that's what I liked it. It's boxing. You got to feel it.

You got to feel those rounds and go through adversity. And it makes you a better fight. And in that final round, We'll talk about your great rows. Isn't that final round? Which doesn't seem not one of your great rounds, but you survived two minutes and 50 seconds

when you were clearly hurt and clearly caught. That's going some. Yeah, at the end of the day, like I said, it's a fight. You get hit. And at the end of the day, it was good learning experience.

Hit me on the back of the head, little elbows. Not used to that because I've been cleaning them out. But Great buyer, he brought it. It was number two and three for a reason. First 12 rounds. Another headliner. And I loved it.

Because there was points in the rounds like three, four, five and six when you were dominating. Could you have done more then? I know it's early to analyze it. Could you have done more then? Truthfully, yeah, I think Andy said it perfect. He said, stop ticking your eye off the ball. It was like every time I heard him, I was like, oh, this is easy.

I'm going to get him in a second. But the end of the day it's boxing. He shows that it's serious. He shows that I am at that level when I switch on. So for me, you're very good, very happy and 12 rounds under my belt. I loved it. And in some ways you liked that, didn't you? I mean, you shouldn't, I mean, don't tell everyone, but you kind of like that fight and stuff, don't you?

Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a fight. I like pretty stuff, but there's something about getting stuck here, making it messy, and both of your throwing lever, and I like to. And the final question, final question, there was all sorts of chat about a rematch there. What was said, and would you fight him again? Do you need to fight him again? If I had to, but it was unanimous. I won clear on some of the scorecards.

And like I said, look as you had one good round. Don't mean you won the fight. At the end of the day. Because I made it so easy, one bit adversity, he made it look harder than it was. So that's Ben then. You could hear it in his voice, couldn't you? And Andy was ushering him away and say,

I did that and I got no problem with doing it, but I didn't want to do it for much longer. But the key takeaway from that, really, is that, you know, he wasn't shocked by it. I said that I want fights. I said that I want 12 ones. I said I couldn't do it. And he did do it.

So that is a, bizarrely, that is a positive. Yeah, I think, Steve, we've got a situation now that in his own mind there, if you listen to him, that he's quite satisfied in that he box eight and iron rounds perfectly well. It's a fellow apart, he come apart a little bit towards the end, yes, and he made it more difficult than what it should have been,

should I say, for various reasons. And for me, he's not saying straight away, yeah, I'll definitely give a rematch. But I'll tell you what, Steve, he's a big social media man, this fellow. We've said this about this before. And social media, may push for the rematch.

Yes. And it might affect him. This could be a Liam Cameron job all over again. Yeah. You know what, Rich? It's Liam Cameron without people suggesting he's a quitter. Right. In fact, it's Leah, no one can say after,

no one can say a word ever about his heart and desire. No, not a thought. Because he was out on his feet in that last round. And as I said to you, when we were in comms, I have never seen a man. So out of his, out of his head, completely unable to. to walk in a straight line for so long, nearly three minutes.

We shot with Moses, but only for 30 seconds, 40 seconds. Moses had time against Philip Hergovich. But Ben today was about two minutes and 50 seconds. Yeah, but not knowing where he was. But Steve, straight after it, when you asked about it, would you give him a rematch? I think he said, he wasn't that bothered about a rematch because in his own mind, he's outboxed him for so long. He said it was unanimous.

He said unanimous, so he's not really about it. But I think because of the social media side of his world, I mean, that's Ben Whittaker. You know, he's a showman, and, you know, the social media is a big part of his sort of his boxing career. If people on social media keep pushing for the rematch, then I think we will see a rematch. And also, Rich, I was talking to Conner's father next door and his coach,

and talking to the pair of them, and they said, they won't give us a rematch. And I said, well, hold on a minute. Ask yourself a simple question. Where does he go from here? If he doesn't fight you, that means he's got to step backwards. British fight fans are not stupid Okay, they'll come out for Ben Whittaker

In a rematch against you They'll come out for Ben Whitaker in a fight against Under Anthony Yard They come out for Ben Wittaker in a fight against Callum Smith They won't come out for Ben Wittaker Against some Bosnian guy that's based in Germany No one's ever heard of Who's won 11 and lost two

No, no, no, no, but they will come out for rematch And I tell you who will come over for a rematch Irish, they will get on planes If we have the rematch here You won't be able to get a ticket for this place And obviously as well, I thought there was a lot of Irish fans in the hall tonight because there's a lot of Irish, obviously, a lot of Irish people in Birmingham, Steve. Massive.

Second biggest Irish community in the UK. And they'll come out. So yes, it'll definitely sell again. And you're quite right. I don't think the British boxing public will come out for anyone. They'll come out for a named opponent because there's so much interest. Or a fight that's got a story attached to, Ritchie. Or fight that's got a story.

And let's face it, our light heavyweight division. We've got five or six boxes in the light, ever-weight division. They're ranked in the world, in the world top rankings. So I think they'll come out for a fight, as you say, with the Anthony Yards, Joshua Boassey's, the Callum Smiths of this world. But I don't think they'll come out for just anybody, but they will definitely come out for a kind of wallace rematch because they will be kicking themselves now, Steve.

I don't know what they've said to you. They're in there. They're kind of happy they've gone to 12. If they're happy. Wish for the 15 round fight, it would have been tonight. And, you know, it's hard talking to his father and saying, well, I thought, you know, it was 9-3, but I thought also that Connor could have done stuff earlier. He said, well, there was nothing in the earlier.

I said, I'm not disputed anything. I'm just saying I think he could have. And even then he admitted he could have. So I've got a bit of an admission. He wouldn't take any risks, would he, Connor, tonight, early on in the contest. But that was probably sensible. Yeah, well, definitely. I totally agree because I think if you've been come over the front foot and made silly mistakes,

he'd have been punished. So I think he boxed the right fight, but yes, he should have made more of a go of it, sorry, earlier on in the fight. But listen, Steve, it's after. All geniuses are after the fight, mate. We're all geniuses after it's over, man.

You know what, Rich, I think, and I'll tell this now, there will be, I haven't looked on any of my social media platforms and I haven't seen anything. I think there'll be a massive backlash, and I think a lot of it will be anti-neged, anti-Wittigour,

negative about Wittigar. And I think, I think, I think he might, even bizarrely that he's won nine of the three rounds, whether the judge's scores don't tell you that. Absolutely. One judge scored it like we did, and one judge only gave it to Ben by two rounds. So that, and I think. Which I find, so do I, mystifying, mystifying. So I think you'll look at it and it will make, it will also make cash common sense,

at a work at the box office, and then Whittaker can, you know, if he was poorly, although he did box really well earlier on, we'll see then. Now, we also quite like with Eddie Hearn. Now, Eddie He said, I'm not saying I feel sorry for promoters because they live, you know, fantastic lifestyles, the good ones, the big ones. They make lots of money. They're under an awful lot of pressure. Eddie's had a tough old week this week.

He's been in and out of all over. He just about, just finally got the AJ Tyson Fury fight over the line. There was a lot of that. That was sort of on off. Even the press comments to announce it was on off. He was in good form on that day. Then the next day he was up in. Birmingham and I saw him in the ring and he did look absolutely exhausted but I had a chat

with him about the fire but he also makes some sense talking about one or two things Ed can I grab you um you know what he set some he set something there but I said something to him and I'm not I'm not trying to be grand I said at the start of the end of the 11th this next round here is going to make him and more than that that 12 rounds bizarrely might have saved his career in a bizarre way you understand what I mean by that I mean you look very tired in the test The 11 was okay, and then the 12th was just hold on. He wasn't hurt, really. It buzzed once in the fight, but it was exhaustion.

I mean, Andy Lee said he's had COVID last week. Tough, really. I mean, it doesn't matter what you got last week. You're in the ring. And ultimately, but also if he's going in not 100%, but again, once you're in that ring, tough whatever. You know, it's like, and he was hanging on, like I said, not out of being hurt, but.

out of just exhaustion in his legs. So like I said, going into this fight, we really needed some rounds. We didn't necessarily need those kind of rounds, but if you're ever going to get the experience, if you're ever going to get what you need in the ring before you go to the next level, but he's going to have to be better than that

against the likes of Callum Smith and Bivol, of which he is mandatory for now. In a bizarre way, and also, Ed, if he'd have taken him out in three or four rounds, which I think he might have done it by six, that would have been a totally different situation. going forward. Now, it might be easier

to get some people in the ring with him. Sure, yeah. I mean, look, I don't mind a rematch, if I'm honest. You're nice. I mean, Connor Wallace didn't really start believing in himself until the second half of the fire.

And then, Ben, he's very good. There's no doubt about it. He's very tricky. He's blow, his jab, his bodywork. He's hard to get close to. But once he started tiring a little bit, and Connor was having success with a backhand, he started to build on it.

And actually, he probably should have thrown himself into the fight a little bit quicker as well. So he might be kicking himself. And actually, for me, as a promoter and a matchmaker, I'm looking at it and going, good competitive fight. Connor had him in all sorts of trouble at the end, loads of Irish support, Ben's got a point to prove, run it back in February.

Do you know what I mean? Because we're going to have that interim fight before the Callum Smith Bivow winner anyway. We're looking at Yard, those kind of guys. But if they can't do that, I'd be happy to run the Wallace fight back because he's got to be better than that if he's going to put himself in contention

for those names that I said. And if you're with Connor Wallace and you've traveled to a foreign country to fight a guy like this, you're screaming at your fighter after five rounds. Come on, we can still win this fight. We're in this fight. Yeah, and, you know, it was cagey. You know, Ben won virtually every round for six rounds. And then he started, I think he dropped one and then he probably lost 12, maybe 11, 10.

Do you know, but I scored it eight four myself. But, and I think, you know, when I got in the ring after, Connor was kind of like, oh, yes, yes. I'm like, no, he blew it. He knew he didn't win it, but he's like he's celebrating the success, which is fine, but if he believed in himself a little bit more, who knows what would have happened? But it was so dramatic at the end. I mean, it was a bit of a chess match for the first half of the fight, and then all of a sudden it was just pure drama.

And drama that we didn't really want or didn't really expect. Your sales order says one thing, your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says, good luck. Odu brings your business together. on a single platform, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. Visit Odo.com to book a demo. It's O'DO.O.com. Is Facebook Dying?

I'm Tristan Redmond, hosted the Global Story podcast from the BBC. More than 15 years after the social network, a new movie on the inner workings of Facebook hits cinemas in October. The journalist who's reporting inspired the film tells us why Facebook stopped being cool, and whether meta, its parent, company can reinvent itself. For more, listen to the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your pods.

So Eddie Hearn there saying, yeah, no problem. We'll have a rematch if, you know, if it can happen, if it needs to happen, if we can make it happen. And also dismissing the COVID stuff. Not that, not that, I'm going to speak for Eddie, not that Eddie believes that having COVID isn't serious. But the bottom line is, you know, you can't be, we don't use excuses in our game, which we don't.

You know, David Hay is still living down showing his broken toe. And we were there that night, Rich, when he showed his broken toe when he thought Vladimir Klichke. He, and we went in slow, remember I stood up in slow motion as he was taking his shoe off on the desk. And I thought, not only is he going to take his shoe off and show us his toe, he's going to do it on a desk, he's going to do it about two foot from Vladimir's eye.

And I stood up when I was about to scream, no, Dave, don't do it. And he did it? Do you remember when Vladimir says, you have been bitten by B. By a B. You do not say. I'll get in trouble for doing that sense.

Oh, my. And I just sunk and bridging. We sunk, didn't we, in our chairs? Anyway, let's get back. We do love Dave, though. He's good, man. Let's get back to that Eddie Hearn there. So he's also talking about a rematch.

He did acknowledge, also, I forgot when I was talking to Whitaker there, and we should have mentioned this earlier. Whitaker did acknowledge that he could have done more in those earlier rounds when he was dominating. Because we were debating

from around five or six. And I said to you... Whether he'll go for it. Yeah, absolutely. What should he do? Put yourself in his corner, what would you do? And, you know, you're always going to err

on the side of sense of boxing. But I think even you agreed he maybe could have put the foot down. Yeah, I think there were certain times in the early rounds when he caused him with a couple of good shots. And then he just let him off the hook a little bit. I think he should have gone for it

a couple of times and really put him under pressure. Maybe he was in the back of his mind that if he didn't get him out of there, though, that obviously further down the line... He found himself stuck. Yeah, but I thought he was that dominant early on and the speed and his power,

I thought he probably should have gone for him a couple of times when he did catch him with some big shots. And I think, listen, Connor Wallace, true Irishman, fighting Irish, tough as they come, but a couple of times I think he was hurt. And I think Ben sensed it but didn't really go for him

and I think he'll regret that. If they have a rematch, who knows it could be different but he should have gone for it, I think, earlier in the context. Well, let's remind people what happened in the Liam Cameron first fight. It didn't look right Ben Whittaker at all. And Liam Cameron bullied him all over the place. They fell out the ring after whatever it was, six or seven rounds.

And Ben sustained an injury. It was called a technical draw. In the rematch, a few months later, when Ben had changed trainers, switched to Andy Lee. He walked through. William Cameron in two rounds. And I'll tell you what, no one expected that two-round blowout,

just like no one expected the fast that took place in Saudi Arabia. So in summary then for Ben Whittaker, we think he had a terrific nine rounds, certainly seven of those were terrific. And then it just all fell apart in round 10 and 11, but round 12 was particularly disturbing. However... Chalk and cheese, wasn't it? Chalk and cheese, too fire.

However, even though, you know, people will accuse me and say, look, Buncie, you built him up before and now you build him up again, as much as I'd like to have seen him beat Connor Wallace in five or six rounds, you know, because that would have been, that would have been the story. That was meant to be the storyline. He's a better fighter for that 12 rounds, Rich. Oh, 100%. I don't kill what people say. He's a better fighter for that 12 rounds. You can't deny him with the skills and the talent that he's got. He's a very talented box. And like I said, I always said that he's one of the most talented boxer that I worked with, on.

GB. He's an extremely talented fighter and Steve, because of those 12 rounds, he'll be much better. I remember going 12 rounds for the first time. I felt a million dollars afterwards and I really felt that I could have done 15 rounds. That's how

it makes you feel and that's how he'll feel, he'll think, okay, I've outboxing for nine rounds, okay, he's caught up with me in the last three, I've got through it, I've got the 12 rounds, I am fit enough to do 12 rounds because that's always the question in every boxer's mind, whether they can actually go the 12 rounds distance.

He can. He'll be better for it. So let me ask you this. When you sit down and watch a fight back, okay, especially a hard fight, a grueling fight, what are you looking for and can you learn, it seems like an obvious question, but do you learn when you watch back, you know, your performance? So will Ben, watch that back and go, I got that wrong, got that wrong, I got that wrong? I think, yes, I think we've spoke about it, about his.

will certainly regret not going for it himself when he caught kind of earlier on in the contest. But also what I study when I watch fights is the turning point in fight. So I'll be really looking at that round nine, were the signs in round eight that he was just, because all of a sudden he went from really fast shots, good movement, boxing at distance, controlling things. And all of a sudden he just sort of cave, he gets caught with a shot and he sort of caves in.

That was a little bit alarming because then, The cat's out the bag then in terms of Connor Wallace thought, oh, he seized on it and then just pushed on. And that, for me, I'll have a good look at that. And I'll learn from that myself, where was the turning point in this contest? Because it was going so well for so long for Ben Whittaker. And yet it turned out, it wasn't a disaster, of course,

but he was under the kosh. And the crowd booing and this, that and you're there. You couldn't have got a bigger contrast in a boxer's performance than you saw tonight. Well, I've got in the ninth round, Whittaker backed up, Ben backed up, okay? And in the 10th round, I've got, at the end of the 10th round, I've got, wow.

Well, maybe, Steve. And I've got, I said he looks hurt and confused. Or maybe was it that Connor, Connor went for it a little bit more because up until then, we didn't see really Connor Wallace, really on his front foot attacking too many times. He stayed back most of the contest,

but then he seemed to go forward. He knows time's running out and he catches him with, I think, a good left hand, then another left hand. He couldn't miss him. The alarming thing for me was Ben, his fitness sort of, it sort of just vanished and disintegrated.

And it wasn't about our eyes. And then I was looking at it. I thought I can't believe what I'm watching here. He's getting worse. I thought he's going to get through this, but then it got worse. He didn't get a second wind. And that probably alarmed me a little bit more.

But, like I said, he'll be better for that experience. We'll do a summary of Ben Whitaker's performance in a second. But Richard, I just got to spend a couple of seconds just going over. There were two British title fights on the bill. Bill Al-Faraz retained his super well-to-weight, which is like middleweight title, when he finally stopped Ethan James in the eighth round.

And we have a new British flyweight champion, local lad from Warsaw, Hamza Udine, beat Sean Bruce in the eighth round. Both of those fights were entertaining in their own way. Brilliant. I thought Ethan James was brilliant until he got caught and he got dropped heavily.

And there was also the debut tonight of Odell Camarro. He won in the third round, tried a bit too hard against Fedorius Ritzakis, where do you think he's from? He's from Athens, of course,

I'm only playing with you. He won in the third round. I like the two British title fights. Camaro, I felt, we didn't get to speak to Camaro. Millie went chasing him all over the building couldn't get him.

He's a good lad, O'D as well. Lovely, Molly, Molly, not me. No, Actually, we sent Millie to get O'Dell Camar.

That's why, if we'd have sent Molly to get Odell Camar, we would have got him. Molly would have got him, no problem. No, Richie. So let's go back then. Let's go back to Ben Whittaker. I don't think he's going to be a very happy boy tonight. I think he needs people around it to say, listen, son.

That's the first time you've been put under pressure like that in rounds that you've never been in, but you won the first nine rounds comfortably. He boxed brilliantly. What was it, Andy Lee? Paddy, the producer said to me after about four rounds. Andy Lee had said something to him, You're boxing brilliantly.

You're boxing brilliantly. When we went to Anderly in the corner, at the end of the 10th round, you've given this guy a chance by swinging and trying to take him out. That was at the end of the 10th round. The next two rounds were the tough rounds. So what would you like to see? We've talked about the rematch, Rich. We've talked about why he can't fight someone lowered down

and a kind of building your confidence back up because he's what's just one of unanimous decision in a final eliminator. What would you like to see happen? I'd like to see an immediate rematch, to be quite honest, and just lay the ghosts to rest to be caught. Steve, that's what I'd like to see. And I think he'll box much better in the second contest.

Well, yeah, better fight. Well, you see, then the dynamics of the contest changed completely, don't they? Because what happens then is Conner Wallace is going to be more confidence. If you're confident, he's not going to box at distance on the back foot, he's going to go forward a lot.

more. If he goes forward a lot more, that helps. That's a better fight and it makes it a little bit easier for Ben Whittaker to land his shots. For most of that contest tonight, you see Ben Whittaker box at distance and he box sensible. That jab to the body was great. The straight right hand was brilliant. But you're in against an opponent who's not coming forward and it's a South Pole as well who's sitting back and just waiting on the outside. It's difficult to get to. If he comes forward, he closes the gap down himself and he walks onto the punches. It's playing and simple. He'll be more confident. He'll come forward. They'll be saying to him,

listen, put this kid under a little bit more pressure. Put Whitaker under pressure. You'll get to him, you'll beat him. That's what they'll be saying. That'll suit Ben Whittaker down to the ground. And that's what makes great fights when both camps will swear on a stack of Holy Bible that their

man can't, not only will he win, but he can't possibly lose. Because there's a difference between that. And they will absolutely believe. Connor Wallace's people will be so confident he'll win and so will Andy Lee and Ben. And Steve

you've got to remember this. You see what Andy Lee was saying in the 10th round if Ben wasn't so erratic towards the end and swinging and missing, if it had just stuck to his boxing, we might not be having this conversation. He might have just what they call bout management and just seen the bout out

because he was so way ahead. We might be saying, we might be having a conversation now saying, well that was a pretty easy victory for Ben Whittaker. But no, he still wanted to impress. He was still going for knockout shots and two bigger shot. And that's what Andy Lee was talking about. Because he got tired, Steve, he

started to miss the target. And then it all collapsed, really. It all sort of caved in on him. But he's got through it. Yes, I would like to see a rematch, definitely. Ritchie, you may have heard a slight difference in noise in here. That's because we did the first 25 minutes of the pod with the

noisiest fridge in the West Midlands over there. We did actually. Paddy came back. He's obviously been in a she-shibaba or somewhere. And Paddy, the first three he did was walk in and turn it off. So we've got to do the entire for opening 25 minutes again. It's not about. Have we heck?

We did that once with Neville Brown, you know. We did Neville Brown. We did Fraser Clark lost the TKV for the British title. We did the most fabulous pod. Neville was absolutely brilliant. I thought. And then Paddy walked in just as I was finished. And he went, oh, I think it's my thought.

So what have we done? He said, well, I didn't turn the machine on. So I give me his dues. He by now it was half 12. He did half an hour. He was word perfect. Anyway, Richie, it's been a pleasure and a delight being with you. It was a great broadcast tonight.

Molly, Millie was brilliant over there. Molly was much better than Millie, as they say in the trade. So Ben Whittaker is going to get a lot of stick, and you've probably got very strong opinions on whether or not he deserves it or whether or not he doesn't deserve it. The bottom line is he went 12 rounds for the first time in his life against the man who's ranked higher than him in the world. in a final eliminator for the IBF light heavyweight title.

He's also been an Olympic final. So trust me. And he also showed tonight that he's certainly not a quote, quitter, end quote. Ben Whittaker won, probably not the way he wanted to win and probably not the way we expected him to win. But he did win. I'm Steve Bunce and this has been Five Live boxing. This is the football story of the century.

It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy. It's an authoritarian regime. past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. They are champions again, but not only that, they've won it four years running, and no one's done that, ever. Then the Premier League dropped a bombshell. The Premier League has charged Manchester City with more than 100 breaches of its financial rules following a four-year investigation.

Somebody turned up at the Hetty had stadium and effectively served papers. Here in-depth analysis and explanation on football on trial, the Manchester City charges Listen on BBC Sounds. Is Facebook dying? I'm Tristan Redmond, hosted the Global Story podcast from the BBC. More than 15 years after the social network, a new movie on the inner workings of Facebook

hits cinemas in October. The journalist who's reporting inspired the film tells us why Facebook stopped being cool and whether meta its parent company can reinvent itself. For more, listen to the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your pods.