5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Who is boxing's Tiger?

Episode Date: April 16, 2019

As Mike and Steve arrive in a chilly New York ahead of Terence Crawford v Amir Khan for the WBO weltweight title, is there anyone currently in the sport of boxing that can inspire the same universal excitement as Tiger Woods in his Masters victory? Also, an early look at why Crawford v Khan might not be the mismatch expected by some bookmakers, and a review of Anthony Crolla's lopsided four round defeat by Vasyl Lomachenko at the weekend.

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Five Live Boxing. And welcome to Five Live Boxing with Costello Unbunz, coming to you, as promised, from New York City. New York City, Steve, or is it the Arctic Circle? Well, it's not quite the Arctic Circle. Bear in mind, Mike, in your absence, when you were sunning and tanning yourself, I actually were in a cryo tank of 146. That's minus 146 I was in. This is slightly warmer than that, only slightly warmer than that. And what it is is because of the buildings.

Every single building that generates, whips the cold, whips the wind, it's freezing cold. I can hear the sympathy flooding in from listeners all around. Look, we had loads of emails about our requests for you to suggest locations as to where we should record our first podcast of the week. I suppose we ought to mention that the reason we're here is Amir Khan against Terrans Crawford for the WBO well-to-weight title live on BBC 5 Live in the early hours of Sunday morning.

We're here for the build-up this week. And as I say, we had many a suggestion as to where we should record this first podcast from Richard in Beckenham, continuing your theme, Steve, about last week. He says, got to be the top of the Empire State Building. Steve is used to the cold going on last week's pod. One of you can be Faye Ray and the other King Kong,

not saying who. Matt Collins in Melbourne Springtime in the Big Apple Perhaps you guys could huddle up in the back of a horse and carriage to report the pod while riding around Central Park We can't afford it! We can't afford it! If we do a 40 minute pod, who are you going to get that bill to?

Here's $500. What's that for? We had to hire a studio, no, we hired a horse and car for God's sake. Matt goes on, if you want something a little bit more distinguished, the Carnegie Club is a cigar lounge just off Broadway. What a place to settle in. with a glass of whiskey to revive and review the night's proceedings.

Buncie, I've picked that one out, as I suggest, that has your name written all over it. It's funny you should say that because, and you're not going to think I'm joking. I saw in a Financial Times article from a couple of weekends ago. It was private members-only clubs in New York, and someone who are unbelievable, someone who got 50-meter swimming pools down low. And in fact, I mean, people are going to say you've scripted this, we haven't. I had no idea you were going to drop that cigar thing in. not 200 metres from where we are.

There's a building here that belongs to Yao University, and it's the Yao Club. So it's where all the former graduates from the University, the Yale University stay window in New York, and there's all sorts of stuff there. There's also a fantastic restaurant up on the top floor and outside. And about, well, I tell exactly when, going back 17, 18 years,

I went there for breakfast with Bud Schulberg, who went to Yao before he became a Hollywood screenwriter, winning an Oscar for his screenplay of the hard on the waterfront, yeah, he wrote the holiday for, so I went there for, actually went there for breakfast with him and the private club. And I was thinking about, it would be great to do this in a private club? And I thought, wouldn't it be lovely doing a private club, it's nice and warm, and a waiter can come out, a baked potato can come out and give you some hot coffee, or perhaps give you a snack.

No, I tell what I do. Pick it up on the theme from last year in Los Angeles, let's go somewhere freezing cold, and get, so you can hear the tour, and you can hear their teeth clacking as they're talking. That's what we'll do. Stick your private members clubs with those warm cigar chomping rooms up your jacksy. We'll go and stand in the freezing cold.

Thank you, producer Jack. In keeping. The only person in the paddy jacket, by the way, producer Jack. Look. In keeping with the suggestion from Sam Wade and you almost gave it away there, Steve. He said either the High Line or Bryant Park in New York City. Beautiful views.

Great chilled fire. and best of all, they're both free to enter. Two of the few freebies in Manhattan. Well, we have come to one of those suggestions, Sam. It's Bryant Park. Just over one shoulder is Grand Central Station on 42nd Street. And if we look half a dozen blocks down in the other direction, it's the famous Madison Square Garden,

where the fight of the century Ali versus Frazier took place in 1971. My special memory, Steve, is commentating on Joe Kowalsaki's last ever fight, 46 and O against Roy Jones in the garden in the week that President Obama was confirmed as president of the United States. That was on Tuesday of Fight Week. And I was in Jimmy's Corner, which is one of the many suggestions as to where we should do this first podcast. But the size of the place and the noise in there just doesn't make it feasible. But I was in there earlier that evening and came out into Times Square nearby. and I was stood there next to a policeman who said that this is like New Year's Eve and then some.

And up on the huge neon lit screens came this flash from CNN that Barack Obama had been elected as president of the United States. What a week. The very next day, the Wednesday, was the press conference. Roy Jones gave us an answer about what it meant to not just black Americans, but the United States as a whole and its history for Barack Obama to be elected. it was, as I say, nothing short of poetry. And then I asked Joe Kowzaki in a one-on-one what he thought of this momentous occasion.

And he said, I'm not into all that politics. I'm here to fight. One track, mine. You see, now, in the past, when we've done this pod, when you said, then I asked Joe Kowzaki what he said, and in the old days, okay, in the old days, we would have gone straight to the interview, wouldn't we? But no, no, no, no, no.

Let's get the boys freezing cold instead of giving him a four-minute reprieve, whilst we listen to Joe Kowzaki on the eve of fighting Roy Jones at the garden and the day after Barack Obama becomes the first black president of America. No, no, no, we won't have that recording. We'll carry on talking and shivering.

Thank you very much. And of course, that was a fight. It gets knocked down in the first round. Yeah. Jones drops him into first round. Yeah. Wow. And Bernard Hopkins was sat ringside

and cheering on Roy Jones and believing that Roy Jones was nearly back to his best and had a serious chance of winning that night. Well, what Hopkins has done? because he'd fought, obviously, Calzaki a few months earlier in Las Vegas, and he was convinced he'd won that fight. He hadn't.

He should have been thrown out for holding and trying to cheat, Burner, and I love him at there, but that's the truth. What Hopkins would have been looking at there was I can fight Roy Jones again. Fantastic. I can vote Joe Calzaki again. I've got three more fights here. I can make another $25 million here against a couple of guys that really are not going to hurt me too much. But you were here on an occasion as well that was related to.

to something this city will never forget. And Bernard Hopkins against Felix Trinidad back in 2001. Yeah, obviously when the planes landed in the World Trade Centers, that was on a Tuesday, the calamity. And I was meant to fly on the Wednesday morning because that Saturday coming up, it was Hopkins against Felix Trinidad for most of the middleweight titleways. In fact, it may have been for all of them.

I can't remember because some of them in the kids. logistics of that flight get overshadowed by some of the emotion of that flight. So I was meant to fly out on the Wednesday morning. Of course, all flights, as you know, were cancelled in and out of the city. But it was only, and it's interesting, as I look at this, it was only pushed back two weeks, Mike. Now, when I landed here, and it was really weird because I flew into Newark, so the World Trade Center, Manhattan, and the Skyline were on the left.

Obviously, the World Trade Centers were gone. But as we flew in, and it was a crystal clear day, and there was still this dust everywhere. You could see the dust in the air and down the far end. And it was Dayton, you know, whatever it was, six in the afternoon. And it was just swirling dust. And the city itself, once I got in, once I walked around, felt dusty. You could sense it.

I'm not going to say you could smell it because it was just, but you got the feel for it, you got the sense for it. It was really weird. What was it even stranger, Mike, is that when I was coming out first of all, I was standing some rat, we're at a whole hotel because New York's an expensive place for hotels. When I came back, I managed to get in the Waldorf, the famous hotel, which is also not far from where we're standing for four or five nights. So no money, that's $69. And restaurants were closed and places

were closed. So imagine literally, we've walked past, since we walked from the hotel, we've probably been past 50, 60, 70 restaurants. Well, back then, two weeks after the planes landed, um, Almost every single one of those restaurants would have been closed, maybe just a coffee shop over in a couple of delis. It was a really weird thing. Then the fight itself was sensational, because Hopkins, remember, would drag the flag out of Trinidad's hand at the press conference in Puerto Rico

and stamped on the Puerto Rican flag. Of course, this is a mad Puerto Rican city, and Trinidad is a national hero. The place was four, there was, and Hopkins had like seven people, you know, seven of his family members were there. Don King was there, he was the promoter. Don King invited hundreds of firemen.

People cried for like 20 minutes, before the National Anthem, the roof nearly came off. I know it's Ecclesia, I don't care. I was there, I saw it. You can hear the bolts rattling. People were screaming the National Anthemps. And then, of course, it was a great fight. We've caught Hopkins breaking Trinidad down so brilliantly.

And he'd said Hopkins. He said, I'll make his dad. He said, I'll make his dad get in the ring and stop it. I'll make his dad stop it. In fact, he said the same things, of course, when he thought Joe Calzaki. That was part of his plan. It worked once for Hopkins.

It didn't work the second time. So it was a great week, a great fight, but wow, that was a strange city. And I walked down to where the, as close as you could get, Mike. And it still was this, you know, giant dust everywhere and piles of dust indoor. It was really, it was, it was eerie. Hey, tell what I'm saying, I'm delighted I came for that fight.

I was here, Steve, for one of Amir Khan's best career performances, 2010, when he fought in the small room, as they call it, underneath the main arena at Madison Square Garden. It's Pauli Malinagi, who's alongside us. for commentary on Saturday evening and he went on later in the year to box Marcus Maidana in Las Vegas and produce another one of the best performances of his career. We'll talk very shortly about Khan and Crawford, not in so much detail because we're going to be looking into the fight technically and in terms of what we think will happen later in the week. But as I came through

JFK Airport today, Steve, I picked up a copy of the New York Times and it's got a color photograph on the front page of Tiger Woods and that amazing victory in the Masters 24 hours before we came here. In the sports section, the headline, the old look is back. And I was just thinking about Tiger Woods and there's been a lot of talk about

is that the greatest sporting comeback of all time. And the next one that everybody mentions is Muhammad Ali. But what about George Foreman, who won the world heavyweight title, the oldest man in history to do it at the age of 45, 20 years after he lost it. Yeah, I have to tell you,

as great as the R. Lee victory was against Foreman in Zaire, and of course it was, it was marvellous, it was glorious, it was incredible. It was building towards that. There was four years of building towards that. I don't think there's been four years of Tiger Woods building towards that victory. I mean, I think people inside golf

have grown increasingly wearingly cynical, of us outside still fancying Tiger could do something. The guys in golf go, no, he can't, he's patins abysmal, he's lost his nerve. That's what they get really, they get quite angry golf people. So whereas Ali, there was that bill too there. Whereas Foreman, when he first comes back, Mike, and we forget this, because we remember the last sort of two years

when he's fighting Holyfield and winning the world title, losing their winning the world title. There's like seven or nine years or ten years or whatever it is. I forget the exact figures. maybe longer, where he's just fighting nobody's in the middle of nowhere. And so for the foreman come back, because of the age and the fact that the first

five, six years were in complete obscurity, I think that outwards woods, I really do. Yeah, he retired in 77, came back in 87, his first comeback fight wasn't even televised. He was the forgotten man. That's how much was expected of him. But something struck me, Steve,

watching the final round of the Masters. And when Woods had won, and he was going to the scorers hut for the signatures and to collect the green jacket at the end. And there was a line of some of the very best golfers in the world and to see how they looked at Tiger Woods, do-eyed like young fans desperate for his autograph. These were some of the very best golfers on the planet.

Men have worn that jacket. And yet he has this aura around him. And it just made you think how boxing could do with a figure like that right now. that was Tiger Company coming out to stand to attention as their master general, whatever you want to call him, walk down the middle. Who would it be, Mike? Who would it be? Because, okay, you'd get a decent turnout if Floyd were to come back.

You'd get a decent turnout maybe if someone like Delahoeia were to come back. But would you get a universal turnout? And I sort of doubt it. And also, whether you're like it or not, Mike, as much as the Gulf purists have been sort of dismissing Tiger for a good while and basically it's become the sort of grandmother's favourite. So you know, you know, he's like that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you know, I'm, you know, if I, if I, if I, obviously, you know what I'd do, I'll, get some horses, get, just, between the two of us, get some knack at old throwabers, go, go over somewhere in the right back country in Ireland, pick up six fantastic looking horses that are absolute nags, and you

know what you call them, my beautiful girl, my favourite grand door, every, every, Every single nan in the world's going to lump on. Oh, my favourite granddaughter. It doesn't matter what they were originally called, Trojan or whatever they're called. Just fake the names. Anyway, you make you lose with a trade of thought. That's the cold.

That's the cold. This happened to me, that's about the cryotank last week. You know what happened to me when I was in the cryotank, I will get back to the point because hopefully I'm going to remember it. When I was in the cryotach last week, you're underpants froze.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Listen, I had the crocs on, my socks on, with kecks on, my gloves on. And the guy said, he said, there's no good cover in your privates That won't stop.

That won't help them. No, what happened to me, though, is that just like people on Everest, because I'm an expert on, surfing and Everest and boxing, that's my triangle. So on Everest, when people die on Everest, they're always found, and they've removed their jackets, they remove their clothing. It's because what happens? They get boiling hot. It's before they die, their bodies, even though they're freezing to death,

they get really hot, so they have to take their clothes off. You know what happened to me when I was there? They started to panic a little bit. I don't think between the two of us, I don't think they gave me the full three minutes. my right arm started to burn. Mike, I was dying in that cryotang son. They got me, they ripped me out of there. Jack the producer was loving it, laughing.

I think he was, I think he sneaked a picture of me and me Kecks, by the way. And I started to get, my arm started to get warm. And the guy said to me, no, it's not. I said, no, it is. He said, no, your arm's not getting warm. I said, I'm telling you, my right arm's burning. My right arm's burning. Anyway, I've not in where we were.

In terms of moving off at tangents, we're now in New Jersey. We're doing a good one. I thought I went to Alabama after that one. Anyway, who's the likely Tiger Woods of boxing? I think it's got to be a heavyweight. And the issue is, Steve, if they're not going to fight each other, if Joshua, Fury and Wilder are not going to fight each other, the most likely candidate for me is Anthony Joshua.

I think he could have something like a Tiger Woods appeal. I'm not going to go anywhere near Muhammad Ali, but if all of them fought each other, and we got those kind of great, series, they were fights that moved beyond boxing. To set history. Yesterday, you know, when we started our coverage of the Masters on Five Live, it was all around Tiger Woods.

He wasn't leading the tournament, but that's how you draw people into the tent. There were people watching that yesterday. They had no idea what they were watching. I'm one of them. I don't play golf, but I watched it because Tiger Woods was in the vicinity. And all fairness, Mike, you know, over the last 10 years or since the last, since the last proper win, since the last real win.

We've pumped, you know, every station in the world that's had golfers pumped it on the first day, if he's been in it, because he doesn't, you know, he hasn't been entering everything. Everyone's pumped it on that account. So if, would it work with Joshua?

I'm talking about someone coming back. So who could, maybe, you know what? Keeping guys, keeping it active as it is now. What if Vlad came back? What if Vlad came back? And first fight beats Dillian White. Okay? What if Vlad comes back?

Yeah. I just, there isn't that charisma. Whatever you say, I was about to say Vladimir Klitsko doesn't give enough of himself to the public outside of Ukraine. But Tiger Woods doesn't, and yet he still has that aura. So it's difficult to see how somebody in boxing could make that kind of breakthrough. Unless, I mean, look, Tiger Woods is playing against the very best. so that you know what he's done

is really super special because he's beaten the very best in the world. But also, Mike, you know, he's on the front pages because they're desperate to have him on the front pages. Okay, we're on the front pages and the back pages as it is at the moment. We're not a business that's looking for some kind of Tiger Woods guy to walk him from history.

No, you know, we don't need it. You know, Madison Square Garden that's going to sell out for Joshua on the 1st of June. The MGM in Las Vegas is going to sell out on June. the 15th for Tyson Fury. Everything we're doing that's big is going to sell out. We've got a booming business at the moment. And in all fair this, we don't, perhaps,

perhaps there wouldn't be 50 reverential current, or just past champion standing as the boxing Tiger Woods walked down the aisle. Because we're a fractured sport. Some of them will be hissing, some will be spitting at him and some will be cuddling him. That's the way we work. In terms of Amir Khan's chances, Steve, coming over here,

I was looking at the bookmaker's odds in the UK and he's ranked at around 7 to 1 but I was just casually reading up over what happened at the weekend because I've been away in France but this Aussie-based Irishman boxed Jaime Mungir at the weekend

in Mexico for the WBO Super World to weight title and according to just about everybody at ringside won it now you could have got around 20 to 1 against Dennis Hogan so upsets happen and what I'm kind of getting at Steve is that if we go back to Amir Khan's last fight in September

and our podcast two days later, we were basically lamenting the end of Amir Khan and how we both said we wouldn't be too disappointed if he never fought again. So why are we here, why are we making so much a fuss about Amir Khan against Terrence Crawford? For me, one, it's Madison Square Garden.

It's Terrence Crawford and the chance to see up close live one of the very best of this era might turn out to be one of the very best of all times, certainly according to Bob Arden. even if you strip away the promotional hyperbole, then what Aram's saying has to be listened to. And also, because of what I've been going back to, is there a chance that, as Amir said on the podcast last week,

he was unmotivated against Samuel Vargas, he was just going through the motions, and this time he'll be able to raise his game. He certainly has the style, if there's any fragment of the best of Amir Khan left, then he has the style to at least cause Crawford some problems over the first half a dozen rounds. No, absolutely he does.

You know, he has the speed. And when he's smart, the smartest, fastest, and best Emir, over 12 rounds can beat Terence Crawford, Mike. I'm convinced of it. But that, it's those elements you're going to grab a little bit of

the Amir from the Malinazi fight, which was a bit of the confidence. Are you going to grab somebody Amir for the Madonna fight, grab somebody Amir from the Algeria fight when he was moving well? Because part of what's gone, it's not just that he's losing a little bit of pace, losing a little bit of timing.

He's losing that confidence. And there was fear all over his face against Canello, for instance, Mike. You know, I thought he was in front going into whatever the sixth or seventh round when it ended. One of the judges had him in front. One of the judges, you know,

I thought he was in front. Not, wasn't walking in. But he was fighting on fear, Mike. He was fighting with that dreadful inevitability in his head that if I get hit on the chin here, I could be in trouble and he was hit on the chin

and he was in an awful lot of trouble. And the Vargas, remember, he gets dropped and he gets really hurt later in the fight against the perfectly respectable guy. Who, by the way, it's not a lot better than some of the guys that Crawford's beaten over the last, in his 12 world title fights.

They haven't all been against 12 great fighters overseas, remember? One or two of them haven't been, you know, been okay. Only Lavarga's style. Let's get that absolutely right. But Amir, without a doubt, does raise his game for fights. Amir,

without a doubt, will be a different focus beast against this guy Crawford. One factor worth bearing in mind, Steve, is that Amir Khan's never been outboxed in the professional ranks. He's been knocked out by Canello and by Bradis Prescott and by Danny Garcia, but he's never been outboxed. The one other fight that he lost was against Lamont Peterson in Washington, D.C., when I thought he won the fight.

Take away two warnings he got for pushing, and he does win. the fight reasonably comfortably so he wasn't in any way being outboxed so that's that's one of the factors that i'm hanging on to here but talking about terence crawford if if we were to name our top four pound for pound fighters in the world right now we would probably name crawford in whatever order crawford usick naoya unui yeah from japan lovacenko and lomachenko And maybe Errol Spence? So take away Errol Spence just for a moment. The other four that would probably be top four,

with Errol Spence and Canelo mounting a serious argument to be in amongst the mix. But if you take those four, they've appeared against British fighters somewhere in the past year. All four of them have fought British opposition in the last year. So Neoya Inouye Inouye Inouye. In Tokyo. Anthony Kroller has just succumbed to Lomachenko. Tony Bellew fought well for a long time against Alexander. Usick and now we've got Crawford up against Khan at the weekend.

I'm sensing more of a Bellew against Usik for Khan against Crawford rather than the other two blowaways. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, McDonald got done early. He had a go. Could Jamie McDonald, with all of his experience, be the world champion or held aversion of the royal title for about six or seven, six years or so might. Could he have survived? Maybe. I'm not saying he would have survived, but he might have been out of fiddle his way to go a bit longer. Could Bellew have lasted a bit longer if he hadn't tried so hard? But I thought the first three rounds were three of the best rounds that Tony Bellew's ever had against Lusick. So could Bellew have survived longer if he'd wanted to survive?

Had they done what Anthony Croller did, which was try and survive from the very opening bell? Because he looked to me, he looked to me, Croller, that he was transfixed by this tiny magician from the Ukraine and that he froze. I think he's credited with five punches. I counted two. Whereas, you know,

McDonald's still threw more punches than that, and it was done in around. Bellew certainly threw more punches. And you're right. The Amir Khan won. I think we'll see the best performance of all four. I think Amir Khan's performance will surpass Bellew's performance.

I really do, Mike. And a lot of criticism of Crolla and the fight taking place and it being a mismatch. But if you look back at his last performance, Steve, he beat an Indonesian, Dau, Jordan, who's ranked,

just outside the top 10 in the world and beat him reasonably comfortably. So that's formed that at least allows him a world title fight. But it's really interesting, Steve, towards the end of last year, I think it was around September, October time. I went to your old gym, the Fitzroyo Lodge Gym, where Vasil Lomachenko gave a masterclass. Do you remember? And I recorded this tiny segment, maybe two and a half minutes,

where he was showing a young lad in the gym, while every other kid in the gym was crowded around the real. and hanging on the ropes for his every word and his every move. And a couple of the moves that he showed, he did against Croller. We'll try and get it up on the BBC Sport website or somewhere on our social media platforms. But it's absolutely brilliant to see what he was doing in ultra slow motion. He was doing it at the speed of light on the night against Croller. And that final shot, Mike, that shot that sent Croller face down

would deal with where it should have been allowed to be the fourth round a bit later on. Well, maybe we won't deal with it because it seems to me that everybody else in the British media hasn't dealt with it, so maybe we'll join the gang and not discuss it either. But that final shot was such an intentional shot. That short riot from the Southport Starns, where he sort of half turned his legs anyway

to get a little bit of leavers. He was moving his body all over, central casting and sent that police, Simon. About time, he ordered you an hour ago. Anyway, carry on. It's probably a bit cold from leaving the office. Probably out of a cigar up in the top room. But Mike, that final shot was aimed...

That final shot travelled eight inches. They might have been told there's two lunatics standing talking to each other. Yeah, we were in a deserted part. We were a load of carrier bags looking somewhere to put a sleeping bag. But that final shot travelled about 10 inches and it was meant for the temple. That was an intentional incapacitating punch that he connected with there. It wasn't a shot that landed on the temple by accident.

He got himself up close. He almost switched his feet round so he was a bit. He was actually a little bit sort of square on a little bit to give himself a little bit more leverage with that right hand. And he wanted it in. Then his body oversh left. He travelled about seven inches and down went crawler. And at the end of the third round, I wrote this in the Independent and I said in the paper, I'd probably lose a couple of friends for saying it.

He should never have been allowed out for the fourth round. Now, that's not blaming anybody because you get wrapped up and caught up in it. The referee, Jack Reese, okay, he was a genius last year and he let Tyson. and fury return from slumber and in the same building you know people are calling him callous and heartless for allowing anthony crawler to come out for the fourth round you know and you know what and Joe Gallagher's been a friend of mine for 20 27 28 years when I first went to champs camp gym to do something with them Joe was still boxing that's how long so I don't care if Joe Gallin ever talks to me again and Joe has to live with it he should have pulled him out at the end of the third round that's not a

criticism. That's a straight observation that it should have been pulled out at the end of the third round and spared a face forward dive to the canvas. Shades of what we were talking about a few weeks ago, Steve, when Bob Williams, the referee, allowed Joe Mullander to continue against Liam Williams when he should have stopped it after the first knockdown. And we were saying how maybe nobody would feel worse than Bob Williams and perhaps, you know, Joe reflecting on that will feel bad about it as well. We all make mistakes, Mike. You know, And if you're a trainer, and you've been in the corner thousands more times than I have, but you make mistakes.

It's a natural thing. You make mistakes. You're close to a kid. You know, going into the Southeast Divs, you're close to a kid. Imagine what it's like going into a fight like that, where you're basically living together for months, and then you're together for two weeks overseas, and you're there the whole time. And you don't, you know, maybe something in your brain's telling you're not watching what you're really watching. It happens.

Joe Gallagher is not a cold, cavern. heartless trainer, quite the opposite. And I'm not denying Ant Collar deserved that chance as much as anybody that's fought for a world title over the last 50 years in Great Britain. He did more than some of the guys that also went in and took beatings. Let's get that right.

That is irrelevant. The bottom line is, forget that. We put him in the ring because he deserves it and the WBA have ordered it. But now he's there. Let's look after him. And Jack Reese can't be blamed and say he was a hero in December.

It's not Jack's fault. he should have been yanked out at the end of the third irrespective of what he said sorry, might have a bit of a rant whatever. You got the rant, didn't it? Didn't you feel warm after a wren? Whatever the argument, Steve,

the result of that fight turned out to be what most people expected but the following night, maybe most people expected Clarissa Shields to beat the German Christina Hammer in Atlantic City but I think a lot of people

felt it would be a lot closer but it turned out to be a damp scribb and this is one of the issues about women's boxing, Steve, is that it needs a great fight. To really take off, it needs a great competitive fight. This is what

Hammer versus Shields was built as, and it turned into one of the most one-sided contests that we've seen this year. Now, that can happen in any world title fight because if the styles don't clash and if somebody's particularly on form,

somebody might be struggling at the weight, but that was a massive disappointment? It was a shocking disappointment, to be honest with you. You know, I knew that Hammer had been fed some duds. Everyone gets fed duds. But I also knew that shields had only stopped two of her eight, so, you know, we know she's not a puncher. And she basically did what she liked with Hammer after the first two minutes, after the first one minute and 50 seconds of the first round, which no one did anything. She then absolutely pushed Hammer all over the place. Hammer was looking for ways out. She was turning her head. She was moaning. She was complaining.

And you know what, Mike? It wasn't a great night for women's boxing. And I've been a monster advocate of women's boxing for 20 years now, 2-0. 20 years I've been an advocate of women's boxing. And that did not help the woman's game. One single bit. And what it's done, in my opinion, is it's created a real problem here. Because you've got several fighters now. We've got Katie Taylor, who now has to fight Delfin person. We can't find anybody else we've never heard of who's got a belt and put it in and call it a partial unification, which we seem to be out of doing, it's like, hey, presto boxing, hey presto, boom, here's another rabbit from a bag. Okay, we've got Cecilia Breakus, who's had about 30-odd fights, Mike. You know, if I put a proverbial

gun to your head, you can only tell me about, well, you might not be out to tell me any of the opponents, and I really mean that nicely. And then we've got now, Clarissa Shields. And I did the, we had in our studio at Box Nation, Hannah Rankin, who went 10 rounds with Shields last year. She did a great job, by the way. I've got to tell you, I was really impressed with the job she did. Really good. If ever we do women's boxing, we'd drag her in, kick Richie out and drag Hannah in. Much nicer person. In fact, kick me out because she's really nice to work with. She's probably got a big coat. She'd come out of a sensible coat. Now, Mike, and what Hannah Rankin said, she said, there's no one there for her.

So she's even got to lose half the stone, Cloresa Shields. And Cecilia Breaker's at World Weight's got to go up eight or nine pounds. Or you get into real fantasy. fights where Katie Taylor comes in at 10 stone five and gives away six pounds. That stuff used to happen. You know, I mean, Christy Martin gave away about two stone and went 10 rounds, I think with Lila Ali. Got smashed to bits every second and away. That wasn't a great fight for women's boxing last week.

It wasn't a great fight. Well, also last week, Stephen, before the staff from the local soup kitchen stopped by and feel sorry for us, let's look back at your interview with Dillian White has stirred a lot of reaction from the lights of Shay from Roger Easterbrook and this one from Stuart Patterson who says love the podcast it's the only one that I religiously listen to every week can you feel a butt coming on oh without doubt yeah here we go so he says usually you're even handed and honest when talking to and about boxers so I was a bit taken aback by steve's chat with dealiam white there are some elephants in the room that he seemed content to let

wander about and make a racket in there without paying any attention to. Yeah, it's going to be that why did he turn down Kubrick Pulev? And it's going to be, well, he had a great offer for fighting, for fighting Joshua. Well, Stuart's saying here that the reason is obvious he's pricing himself out of the big fights. Well, you might say, there's a simple argument. You know, if you're a postman, then he's pricing himself out of the fight. Mike. If you are a professional heavyweight and you know what other people are getting, then you want a little bit of that, then he's not pricing himself out of the fire. Okay,

because if he's priced himself out of four million, he insists it was four million, not five million. If he's priced himself out of four million, then by that same thinking, he's priced, it will price himself out of a million. Plus he gave something away, Dillion, which we didn't really pick up, I didn't really pick up on. That's why I needed you there and not sunning himself in Santa Bay. I actually said about the 15 million that Tyson Fury allegedly refused for fighting Joshua. He said, and he actually said, Strowy, now, I don't want that much. So I don't know, would any have got him with seven? Would any have got him with eight? Now, and Dylan said, you know, he, Dylan was quick to say, you know, it's a lot of money, but unworth more.

And the Poolev one, who wants to go? No disrespect. Who wants to go to Sophia in Bulgaria to fight Kubret Pulev in a final eliminator when you've already had two fights that are eliminators and the money on the table's tiny and Eddie Hearn knows that it's not going to be as sexy at the sale as a rematch with Chazora or a fight with Parker who the British public fell in love with

when he thought Joshua. That was straightforward business sense and I understand why people, I mean my mute button the day it came out was ridiculous, it was red hot. I understand why people are upset. I didn't let anything go

but we've dealt with those things in the past. Let's hope, let's hope, let's hope. There's no but when he sends in another tweet, text or email, whatever it is. Thank you to Stuart and everybody who's emailed this week and keep those emails coming. We are eternally grateful. Costello and Bunce at bbc.co.com. UK, give us your thoughts on Carn against Crawford. Have you been to watch a big one at Madison Square Garden? If so, give us your memories and we'll discuss those later in the week. As far as Fight Week is concerned, how it pans out. Tuesday here, local time it's the media workouts wednesday it's the final press conference on thursday of this week we've got a five live boxing special from seven p m uk time and then on friday it's the way in

it's later than is often the case at four p m here new york time nine p m in the u k so our final fight preview podcast will be in the early hours of saturday morning uk time but fight time in new york Steve, it's another special privilege. It is a special privilege, Mike, and I think we will get something. I know we're going to deal with this fight later in the week. I think we'll get something here.

I think we'll leave here with some memories from this. By the way, my right side's boiling hot. Does that mean anything, sir? I can see the light. I can see the light. Well, we will be going somewhere warmer for the next one on Wednesday night after the final press conference,

That will be available Thursday morning UK time. But we're on our way now, Steve, going to get somewhere to eat after the experiences of Los Angeles. Do we listen to Jack? No, no, that didn't work. I want to take this to this Cuban place, okay? So I called a hotel where the Cuban restaurants there, and the guy says, no, the Cuban?

Hold on a minute. John! So some guy comes over called John. He has a chat of him. They said, no, no, he closed down in 2008. Finger on the pulse, Mike. Finger on the pulse. And on that note, that's it from Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce. Thanks for being with us.

Let's get ready to rumble! Five Live Boxing. That's not even that cold actually. You've built some.