5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Wilder produces an all-time knockout

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

Deontay Wilder once again proved his punching power by knocking out Dominic Breazeale in their WBC heavweight title contest. Mike and Steve ask where it ranks in the annals of great heavyweight knockouts and debate whether this changes their opinion of who would win between Wilder, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury. They also address Wilder's controversial comments made before that fight about killing an opponent in the ring.Later, Josh Taylor joins the podcast after becoming a world champion at the weekend by beating Ivan Baranchyk in the World Boxing Super Series semi finals, plus reaction to 'The Monster' Naoya Inoue adding another knockout to his record and Billy Joe Saunders becoming a two weight world champion in Stevenage.

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Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash POD C-A-S-T. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Five Live Boxing. And we're back with Five Live Boxing with Costello and Bunce talking this week, Steve, about great heavyweight finishes and what is now seven. British world champions.

Yeah, Josh Taylor won his first world title. Billy Joe Saunders won his second. One under a canopy of absolute devotion in Glasgow. And one under a full moon with an equally devoted flock in Stevenage. Yeah, Scotland's latest world champion. And later, Josh Taylor joins us to reflect on his brilliant performance against Ivan Barancheck in Glasgow. We were ringside in Stevenage as Billy Joe Saunders became a two-weight world champion,

as Steve said. the monster Naoya Anuye of Japan has done it again and we're into a crucial week for Olympic boxing as a decision is expected on Wednesday as to the status of the sport at next year's games in Japan. So much to talk about this week, Steve. You know, this reminds me of those old podcasts that kids did in their bedrooms,

you know, seven hours and 48 minutes reflecting on whether Sugar Ray Robinson would have beaten Godzilla something along nose lines. Oh, Mike, it's a long one, Settling, son. brought your pack lunch. Well, reflections on Saunders and Taylor, Andy Nui to come, but we start at the Barclay Centre in Brooklyn, where Deonté Wilder needed two minutes and 17 seconds precisely to dismiss the challenge of Dominic Brazil, his ninth successful defence of the WBC heavyweight title. That in turn is a slice of history, which we'll deal with later, Steve, but a right

hand flush on the chin, Matthew Maclin, a great friend of ours who's worked on Five Live before former world middleweight title challenger described Dominique. Manick Brazil as being starfished, flat on his back with his arms spayed, his legs spread out wide. Tremendous shot by Deonté Wilder. And it got me thinking of the great heavyweight finishes in history. And for me, I came up with a kind of a bookend memory, Steve, the youngest heavyweight champion in history and the oldest heavyweight champion in history. George Foreman at the age of 45 knocking out Michael Moira with that stunning right hand. and the left hook of Mike Tyson that floored Trevor Berwick in 1986

three times in that Trevor Berwick twice got up and fell over again. Stunning shots and I think this is one of those highlight real knockouts that were we replayed for not years but decades to come. And one of the reasons why it will get played is it's a really clean one, Mike. There's no desperate lunge in shot. There's no teetering falling fighter who's already been on the floor twice who's half finished anyway and then he gets suckered in, pulled in. and knock spark out. There's no exchange where it comes at the end of it. There's not two guys

throwing simultaneous punches and one half-lands and one doesn't. It's a genuine, take a breath, stand still, get the other guy to stand still, transfix, take another breath, launch perfectly, dig your right foot about three inches into the canvas and launch a right hand, and it catches the guy flush on the chin, and then he goes down perfectly as well. There's no ugly falling here. It's not Joe Frazier against George Foreman in the Sunshine Showdown. where he goes up and down and actually lifts the floor and falls into the ropes

and walks over there and gets hit on the back of the head as George didn't give him monkeys about referees instructions or time nor anything. So it's not like that. It's an absolute clean purpose. Then he goes down, not in a crumpled heap. And I'll give you some crumpled heap examples

in a moment, Mike. He goes down as Big Maclin said. Starfish, legs wide open, arms right open. Very much like Hasim Ruckman did all those years ago against Lennox Lewis when he went down in that perfect position in the ring. You remember with Don King's crown logo perfectly above his head,

slightly tilted because he obviously just lost it, thanks to Lennox's thunderous right hand. It was a perfect right hand, and I don't want to pull back on all the glory and celebration, but Brazil did leave himself in that position to get knocked out. You're still going to land the shot, Mike, and Brazil's a big old game lump, And I don't take back anything we said about Brazil last week

about being a big old game lump. Because I think if I'm not, I think I put an asterisk on this fight. It might end in the first round, but it might end in the eighth round. Either way, he'll have a go. And he did have a go. What was that point after one minute and seven seconds when Dante Wilder backs him into a corner? Brazil's gone.

His legs have gone, Mike. His eyes are rolling in his head. And you see, you almost see him take a breath. He ducks his head down, way illegally. And then he throws one right hand that nearly catches Wilder. But then a second and a foot, and while the backs away and grabs him. Like an octopus, he grabs him. His leg shake. His leg shake, no doubt about it, yeah.

So what have you got in terms of heavyweight finishes, great heavyweight finishes, in between my bookends? First one is Foreman, George Foreman, against Jose Roman. Okay, and it's all over in 120 seconds. It's in Japan, and Roman should never have been in the ring. He gets pushed off and dropped early, and then hit when he's on the floor. He gets pushed off and dropped again. And then, Mike, he gets hit with an uppercat, and he goes down over his legs.

His legs are on the floor open and his body collapses over but he doesn't, he's not big enough to topple over. And so he leans over and his chin and his mouth for no more than about three inches from the canvas. And even in a really grainy picture, you can see the blood rolling out of his mouth. But he's bouncing.

I wondered why he was bouncing. George Foreman's bouncing. George Foreman's bouncing in the corner. He's vibrating a 17-foot ring, Mike. So Romans... Otherwise known as a phone box. Or a slaughter pit. So Foreman's bouncing in the corner, ready to get back in there,

and Romans bouncing up and down with this blood dripping out of his mouth. And he's to say, they take up a count, which is the funniest thing. Now, the real shocking one, though, is 40 seconds left, 15th round of a World Heavyweight title fight. John Tate against Mike Weaver. John Tate's well out in front. So 11 or 12 rounds, he's won out of the 14 completed rounds. And with 14 seconds left in the round, he gets hit. by Mike Weaver with a left hook and he goes down face first and there is absolute shock.

No one moves. It's almost 15, 16, 17, 18 seconds before anybody goes to him. Ref doesn't count. No doctors. No corner men. Nobody. He celebrates Weaver and there's this flat body, John Tate. He does not move.

I assure you, there's a lot of competition from about 70 through to Tyson's peak, about 89. is a lot of competition, but I would put Mike Weaver's left hook against John Tate and Foreman's uppercut against Jose Roman right in the mix. So going back to Brazil, and you were saying how some people have questioned what he was doing at the moment he took that right hand from Deonté Wilde. Lennox Lewis has tweeted saying,

basically, he didn't see much from Brazil, we didn't learn much tonight, what was he doing with the left hook? And of course, if you get set to throw a left hook because of the arc of the punch, a straight punch, he's going to get there first, especially if somebody throws that shot as quickly as Deonté Wilder does. But what's fascinating, Steve, if you watch one of the replays,

watching the fight as live, Deonté Wilder's on the left of the screen and throws the right hand. But one of the replays is from the other side of the ring. And it shows Deonté Wilder this time on the right hand side of the picture. So you get a clean view of Dominic Brazil attempting to throw this left hook. And the left hook comes towards you as you're watching on the screen. the right hand from Wilder connects Brazil is virtually unconscious standing up in a straight line still

he continues while he's unconscious to throw the left hook not only does he complete the arc and the swing of the arm he turns his glove like every kid is taught to do the first day in the gym he turns the glove this is while he's unconscious

the natural rhythm of the punch continues and that reminded me of one of the most amazing maybe the most amazing knockout I've ever seen in 1995, go visit YouTube, watch this. It was a world-like middleweight title fight, an American called Vincent Petway knocked out Simon Brown, a Jamaican based in the United States. And when Simon Brown goes onto the canvas, flat out, unconscious,

he continues to throw a series of jabs. They're not jerks. They're not jerks. These are punches, yeah. He's absolutely throwing jabs. Flat on his back, he's throwing jabs up at the sky, while he's absolutely unconscious. Unbelievable what happens to these men when they go into that square circle

and what they are prepared to go through. I mean, I did think that Wilder... Listen, we know he hits you on the chin, you go down, Mike. It's a case of whether he hits you on the chin and you can get up. And I think Tyson Fury, I was talking to a bit about this yesterday, I think Tyson Fury has got that secret remedy hidden away somewhere, you know, and he could do it.

Here's a question for you, Mike. Wood Tyson Furia got up had he been hit with that shot in round one. A, he would have had more energy, but B, the punch might have had more energy. So there's two sides to it. I'm not, I'm not convinced that it would have been any different than the 15th and final round. Because he beats the count, or it doesn't really beat the count. But he's up at 10. He's up at 10.

And I tell you, I thought, I thought it was a fast count, Mike. I thought it was quite a fast count. Jack Rees might have given him time to walk around. Show me you can walk around. Absolutely. I think it was, I think, I'd like a, you know, let's get it right, Mike. If young Jack wasn't here, son, you and I would be struggling to use the escalator in this building, wouldn't we? We'd be on the back staircase doing double knocks to get in the door like that.

Oh, it's Bunsen Costello coming up the back way again. Just human with him, give him a cup of tea and an egg sandwich. They'll be okay. They'll go home in half hour. Now, Mike, why, I want to see a split screen of the left hook hitting Tyson before he goes down and the right hand hit in Brazil, but as he goes down, and I want to see clock going on the punch, punch landing, and then getting up.

Because I tell you what, Brazil was a fast count. It's a really fast count. And Jack Reese's count was a good count. It wasn't a long count, but it was a nice, breathable second. But would you factor in where Tyson Fury was and the feeling that he was in front on points and therefore deserved a better chance?

And it's hard to know whether that shot would have had the same effect on Tyson Fury. And also Tyson Fury, when he got up, was much more defensively aware. and much... Dan Brazil would have been. Dan Brazil would have been. I agree. Absolutely.

I completely agree. It's difficult to work out. But talking in terms of where this leaves wildest, Steve, we were talking last week about him making nine successful defenses of the world heavyweight title, which he has now done. And so becomes only the 10th heavyweight champion in history to make nine consecutive successful defenses. Now, we were talking about this last week. And we got a response on Twitter from Joe Gibson.

who says, I cannot have just heard Mike Costello and Big Daddy Buntz, giving Deonté Wilder credit for being about to win 10 heavyweight world title fights in a row. That includes the title winning fight and the nine defences. Surely not, says Joe. He has one notable win, brackets Louis Ortiz, and he lost in capital letters his last fight to Tyson Fury. Come on, fellas. Well, we're looking just at stats, Steve.

And he didn't lose the fight against Tyson Fury. Whatever everybody, it seems, around the world says, on the record, which is what we have to go with, it was a draw. He didn't lose. And he keeps his title. And I understand a big Joe's complaint, and it's a valid complaint, because it's a straightforward knee-jerk complaint, because we all imagine that Muhammad Ali

thought just Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and George Foreman. He thought those a lot. Don't get me wrong. Forget rude lovers and John Pierre Coopman. Listen, if you're going to come in this room, start swearing, son. You're in the wrong room for sweat. Don't you dare say lovers in my presence ever again? Don't you ever?

Jean-Pier-Coupman on LeBurz. I think they fought each other, you know. This is a massive digression. I know we've got a lot to do. Where's Jack with a bell, by the way? You've got the program. Where's Jack with a bell? You know, no, no, no.

Right, they fought somewhere for, like, the Ben... I swear they fought for a title. You think, they fought for, like, some native, some ridiculous European, Northern European title. Someone, Google it. Google it, if you're listening. Do you mind it? Do you mind if I don't, but... No, and if I'm not mistaken,

I think Lubbers knocked him out. Or it was the other way around, obviously. But it was this absolute lunatic fire. And I swear to you, they build it all around Arleigh. In fact, they've both been being by Arle. So Lubbers and Coopman, their names will never, ever darken this podcast again. So Deontre Wilder status, he is now one of ten heavyweight champions to have achieved that particular accolade.

But all of the talk now is around Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua. those fights happen, just a semblance of feeling that we're moving towards something seismic taking place in 2020, whatever combination or permutation of those three names. But on the basis of that right hand that landed on the chin of Dominic Brazil after just over two minutes of that opening round, I think opinions are changing. And we change all the time. We're going to go on to talk about Neuja Inouye from Japan and his performance on the undercard of Josh Taylor's win in glass. go and one or two are saying we need to revise our pound for pound list.

Well, you do that virtually every weekend on the basis of results. So on the basis of what Wilder did, how are you feeling now about all of those different results, Wilder against Joshua against Joshua against Fury, all of that, the round Robin. How do they go? Listen, I'm not changing my opinion. I think that Wilder can hit anybody on the chin. I really do. I think Fury has an easier job against Wilder.

But I think Joshua, one thing we omit when we sometimes talk about Joshua, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should give a bit more respect for it is how he can fight to absolute orders, absolute strict orders. No, McCracken in his corner is a man that has shown it with Carl Frotch. He's even showing it with Joshua in some ways, Mike. So I'm not changing at all. I think that Joshua could get hit on the chin like Dominic Brazil did the other day.

Don't get me wrong, I think he can. And I think Tyson Fury will beat Wilder next time out, and I think he'll probably have a tricky moment where he gets clipped high on the head. I'm not sure we get hit on the chin again. I think it'll be a bit more, it will be a slightly faster, slicker, and more defensively minded Tyson Fury next time. So I'm not actually changing my opinion. And do I think that Tyson Fury can lose to Joshua?

Absolutely. I just think that the Fury, even last year, before we saw the best Fury, I still said then, you know, the best Fury, a really good Fury can beat Joshua. I know there's your argument, and it's been, and it's a solid argument is the Joshua work rate theory, absolutely. But of course, that argument falls down against Wilder, because work rate is not the way to beat Wilder, a way to beat Wilder,

and it sounds like a cliche and a joke, is not to get hit on the chin. It's as simple as that. Don't get hit on the chin, you've got a chance of beating this man. But you know what, Mike, so far 42 fights, 41 people, different people have tried. And it's hard. I calculate he's had about 50 knockdowns in his career, Mike. 50 people he's dropped or knocked out cold. That's going some, isn't it?

It is a stunning record, Steve. And for all we talk about Lomachenko and Inouye and Usik and Terrence Crawford, Errol Spence, there is nobody who brings that tingle of excitement. Absolutely. When they walk towards the centre of the ring to get the referee's final instructions, there is nothing that makes you sit up. You know, we'd been at Stevenage. I was sitting there at half-past four in the morning.

You do sit up. You don't lean back like you do for other fights that we watch overnight. you actually sit up because you know you might be seeing something very dramatic. That is absolutely priceless. I think his stock has risen because of that one punch. And we can talk all night about the woeful performance of Dominic Brazil and Lennox Lewis has undermined what Brazil was trying to do. I like Big Lennox.

I thought it was a mild bit harsh. If anybody has a license to say so, then he does. But going back to these rankings, Steve, if we're going one, two, three for me, I've still got Joshua at the top. And I actually believe what he told us a couple of weeks. weeks ago on the podcast that the longer we go, the more he learns, the more he develops. We might make a different call on this at the end of the year. Once Tyson Fury's had two more fights, Deonté Wilder might have fought again.

Anthony Joshua will have been in against Andy Ruiz. But I think Joshua beats Deonté Wilder because I think he will connect at some stage. It may be that Wilder gets there first. But if Joshua had connected in the way that Dominic Brazil connected in that melee in the corner, Joshua would have had the wherewithal. And I think the instinct to follow it up, that better fighting instinct, which Dominic Brazil doesn't have. Tyson Fury against Anthony Joshua, again, I'll go back to this work rate theory. And I think that if Anthony Joshua had managed to floor Tyson Fury in the ninth round as Wilder did,

I wouldn't have been a 12th round. I think he would have gone on to finish him. All of this might change. But for me, it's Anthony Joshua beats Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury against Deontay Wilder for me is a very similar fight to first time around and again we might make different calls on these by the end of the year when we've seen much more of Tyson Fury

and by the way at ringside at Stevenage at the weekend Steve I thought he looked ridiculously well and you interviewed him in the dressing room well like I tell you I mean that's not cosmetic he looks he looks and sounds in the best shape of his life Mike and his eyes are great and his skin's great and he's just, you know, he's there. You know, he said to me in the changing, in the dressing room

when I was talking to him that he's ready to fight now. He's ready physically, he's ready mentally. He's there now. And we'll have fun with him in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks' time. Could I just point out one quick thing, Mike, is that as big as heavyweights became when Tyson Fury climbed up in the 12th round, and that's in many ways the launch pad.

You know, because we'd had 18, Joshua and Dante Walsh, have been world champions side by side for nearly three years, and there's not been the clamour that there's been since that December the first when he climbs up. Now, what happens now after this December, after this knockout in the first round, if Wilder stays in, if Wilder comes back to town, if Wilder comes back to town, if Wilder attends the Joshua fight,

if he attends the Joshua fight, you've got just the most ridiculous potential for pushing and selling and creating a buzz that, irrespective of the different television companies, irrespective of the multi-million, nearly billion dollar agendas of the people associated with these two boxes, there will be such a collective will from the people, Mike, that we might find ourselves in a situation where they have to fight, because people will flock away in the same flocks they arrived at our doorstep. and then add to that

Josh you were hitting Big Andy on the chin and around maybe in two minutes and 16 seconds and the two of them are both ringside or they might even allow them both in the ring because Shelley Finkel this week has said he's going to go in and see the head of the zone and they're going to start talking

I tell you what let's erase everything let's do the men in black I hate doing cultural references for you because you don't even know what Star Wars is but there's a film called Men in Black and they got this gadget which they sort of zap and you forget everything you've ever learned. Now, if I could get that Men in Black Gadget out

and we'd just erase all of our previous history, talking about Wilder, talking about Joshua, Eddie Hearn said this, Finkel said that, all that, right, get rid of it all. If we start fresh now, by the time we're in New York for Joshua against Ruiz, we might have a fight nearly done, or closer than it's ever been.

And there's no doubt, Steve, that the status of Wilder has grown. And we saw that in the buildup with the reaction to his comments about wanting a body on his record. Because I remember in March of last year, when he said exactly the same in the build-up to his fight against Luis Ortiz, we complained about it. And we were dismissed by some of our listeners on iTunes and on email

as being wallflowers. And we were told, just man up, this is what happens in boxing. This is the kind of comments that we're always here in boxing. But outside of a tiny circle, It barely made a ripple. And yet this time around, because of the fight against Tyson Fury, because of the 12th round against Tyson Fury, there's far more awareness of Deonté Wilder. So the comments resonated far more widely than they did this time last year.

What did you make of him talking about wanting a body on his record? Because you see him in the ring afterwards talking to Jim Gray of Showtime and saying he hopes Dominic Brazil gets home safely to his family and kids. So strange changing attitude over the course of three or four days. Well, it actually made, you know, no sense that sort of half shift. Because he hadn't shifted back on about the Thursday. He issued a dreadful apology that wasn't really an apology. It was basically, you know, that expression you used. It was a man up to the rest of us, you know.

Don't be so sensitive. What's slightly wrong, Mike? What's slightly different about this one? And it's no worse than last year, really. his profiles higher, that type of thing. But what was slightly worse this time was he was a little bit more graphic. And he talked about, well, I'm allowed legally to kill someone. So why not?

And he sort of, it was like, he said, you know, I think he said something along the lines of, you know, why not go out and exercise my right? Which is, that's even more of distasteful than, listen, it's all distasteful, talking about having a body on your record. and I would like a dead body on my record. But the fact that he was kind of suggesting what I'm allowed to do it, so let me go and do it. And he had plenty of support, Mike.

You know, if you have a look on his Twitter feed, it was quite disgraceful, I thought. I've got a text, actually, from Carl Wright. The Liverpool boxer that collapsed after a British title fight about 20 or years ago. He'd lost on points to Mark Winters, not a heavy banger. And on the way back to Liverpool, he collapsed in the car.

Luckily it was outside one of the hospitals in Liverpool, so they rushed him straight in and sedated him, but he had a terrible blood clot, nearly died and survived. A massive bone, bit of bone flat removed, head, scrape, blood clot out, recovered. And he sent me a note,

just a text, Carl. He sends me text all the time. He said, I think this is out of all the big man, not good for boxing, hope you're well, Carl. And I thought, that's about right. And that's right, it's not good for boxing. So that's not a wallflower, which you and I have been described as. It's not oversensitive.

It's not anti-boxing people. Carl's passionate about boxing now. That's a guy that survived the head injury, Mike, that could very well be dead, and in which case that might have been his partner, Nicola sending me a message. So that's about us. That should be almost a final word on it.

I just hope we don't see it again. And I've got to be absolutely honest with you, and Robert Smith wasn't in. Stephen is. I'd like to have asked Robert Smith for the border control. What would have happened? What would have happened? Fury had said that, Mike. He wouldn't fight again in this country. If Tyson Fury said that, has graphic... If he repeated those words, Tyson Fury would be banned from boxing in Great Britain.

Find a fortune and banned from boxing. Well, as you know, Steve, I made this documentary way back now in the mid-1990s called Death in the Ring, where I spoke to a number of boxers who'd been involved in fights in which their opponents had subsequently died and one of those was Emil Griffith among the others was Barry McGuigan, Alan Minter, Richie Wenton and I went to New York to talk to Emil Griffith

and in 1962 he fought a Cuban Benny Kid Parrott who at the way in had described Emil Griffith as a Maricon basically saying that Emil Griffith was homosexual which at the time he was trying to hide and the fight ended with Benny Perret suffering severe injuries

and nine days later he died. And I went to see Emil Griffith in New York now 33 years after the event. And this was the first time he had ever spoken about it. And this is just a tiny clip of how difficult it was for him to deal with it. And if Deonté Wilder was listening to this, he wouldn't want a body on his record. Whatever, like a report asks me a question, I would answer him. And whenever he comes to the subject, I don't talk about it.

I just say, I'm sorry. I said, wood. And they get used to me, and they get to understand me. But I just didn't feel to talk about someone who can't be there to defend himself also. Even now I feel the same way, a lot of times. But you're lucky you're getting it out of me. Some people say that it's good to talk about it. I don't feel it's good to talk about it all the time.

Let by guns be by guns. Hey. Especially when their family have to inherit all over the air. all over again, you know, and you make me feedback because they make me think like I'm bragging. I'm not bragging about someone, just talking about what you all want to know. It still says to me. When I listen to fight sometimes, you listen to here, this guy is hurt. You caught you yourself saying, please don't let him be hurt.

Let him be okay. Three decades on, Steve, still hurting about what had happened against Benny Kid Parrott. Yeah, that's what sort of. surprises me about Wairo, you know, surely he's bumped into enough people and he's got such a serious brains trust around him, Mike, you know, compassionate guys and also geniuses, you know, really wealthy, smart, creative men, some really enormous men. We mentioned Shelley Thinkle there. It's worth mentioning Lou DeBello, I think his Harvard or Yao trained legal mind. And of course, at the mysterious Al Heyman, you know, a man that might be worth a billion.

These people are smart people, Mike. You know, there was no angle to talking about a dead body last Tuesday for that fight last week. You know, there was no angle to it at all. It was not going to help with anything. And also, Mike, we've been with a guy. He's engaging. He's terrific. He's fun.

He's got a daughter with a disability. It's a smashing fella. But not in Fight Week. Not in Fight Week. I was fascinated, Steve, by that week in Los Angeles. He definitely changed. There's no doubt about it. I felt he was a very difficult character to be around.

And it might well be that this is a manifestation of nerves. And that's how he's feeling during Fight Week. I'm not excusing what he says because it was disgusting. But it might well be that during Fight Week, he really has to battle to conquer nerves. He wouldn't be the first. And you see what he does and the power behind those shots. that might be the friction that's been building up during Fight Week. Because I've interviewed him outside of Fight Week and in Fight Week.

And there's a different tension around him. There's a different look in those eyes. There's no doubt about it. But we could talk all day about the heavyweights, Steve. And there's so much more to come. But it was... Sorry, just one second. Before we move on, if we don't at least just say the name Ernie Shavers

with regards to heavyweights that knock people out, we'll be flooded again. We got slaughtered last time for that. So Ernie Shavers also knocks a lot of heavy weights out. Okay, let's cut a glass gone. Josh Taylor becoming Scotland's latest world champion and at the weekend Britain's world champion tally rose to seven with the win for Billy Joe Saunders as well.

We'll talk about Billy Joe in a moment but Josh Taylor beating the Belarusian based in Miami, Ivan Barancheck on points in the ring afterwards he described it as easy-peasy. But he joins us on the phone now. Josh, after a couple of days' consideration, what do you make now of your performance against Baranchik? Again, yeah, I thought I was in control

the whole time. I took my foot off the gas a number of times. I switched off a couple of times, but I could have made it a lot easier there for myself, because at times it was really easy for me, but I was just switching off and letting him get off his own shots and hit me a bit too much.

But I could have made it, I definitely could have made it a lot easier for myself if I had stayed switched on and a bit sharper. But I just felt like there was no threat in there. I felt like I was in control and I was never hucking there. So yeah, I just felt like was in control the whole time.

And how did it compare to the fight against Victor Postol? I remember you making similar comments after that particular fight. The Victor Postal was probably the biggest lending curve I've ever had in my career so far, so I learnt a lot from that fight, definitely.

This fight was totally different. This was more physical. But even then, I still felt great and comfortable. well, I was never hurt. I was never panicked. I was never worried at any stage. I saw everything coming. It was good. It was good. I just switched off a couple of times because I felt so in control. And with the Commonwealth Games goal in 2014 and now what you did last night, you're creating special memories. I know you're nowhere near the end of your career. But if you were to stop tomorrow for whatever reason, you're already creating something of a legacy, not just in Scottish boxing, but in British boxing, already.

Yeah, I mean If you had told me 10, 15 years ago that I'd be in this position today I thought you were a big fat liar You know, they'd say, get away and stop talking nonsense

because you always dream of these things as a kid But I don't know if you really actually Believe it when you first start That you'll be the one To sort of do these things But yeah, it's great You know

It's all this hard work and dedication Of the years the sacrificing myself to the support is paid off. And, you know, like you said, if I was to retire tomorrow, I could retire a happy man because I've won a World Championship. I can now call myself a world champion for the rest of my life. So that's something I'm really proud of. We had George Groves on the show last week, Josh,

and he was saying how he learned from you in the gym about your levels of intensity. But what started as a compliment, I think, turned into a bit of a dig. started saying how some of the boxers who were with you in Diggs elsewhere spoke about you getting up at two and three in the morning and shadow boxing in front of them. You were so intense that you just couldn't leave anything behind. Yeah, yeah, just sometimes, and at times of the week up there, sometimes I get a bit, trying to have quite trouble switching off at night. I've never really been a great sleeper, but I'm getting better wet these days, so I'm not off at like in the morning

shadow boxing and all that sort of stuff, but I'm not quite as much like that. anymore but I've managed to get my sleeping pattern a bit better these days so I'm not quite energetic at night. And of course Barry McGuigan's been such a huge influence on your career. He's been talking this week and in the past couple of weeks about how he believes you're the best boxer Scotland has produced since Ken Buchanan. With Ken, what do you know in terms of his background? What do you see of him? What's your relationship with him? Well, I know Ken quite well because he comes into my amateur gym

up the road at Lock End quite often and he has done for years and every time he was in he was always telling his stories about how he fought over in America and he's all his old stories sharing the dressing room with Muhammad Ali so I know I know Ken quite well

so for Barry to say that it's a really big compliment and a really great compliment but you know there's other great fighters in Scotland since Kenby Cannon there's loads of them there's Scott Harris

and there's Alex Rapper Ricky Burns you know there's loads so it's quite unfair to pay that really yeah

well you go a long way to trying to emulate Ken Buchanan by beating Regis Progrey in the World Boxing Super Series final the bookmakers

have chalked up their odds already Josh and they make him the odds on favourite I'm not sure if I'm correct in saying that that would probably be the first time

that you will go into a fight as the underdog. I mean, how do you assess that prospect as a whole? I'm not really much at a better man, so it doesn't matter to me. I don't mind being the underdog. Most of my amateur career, I was always known as underdog. So if anything that inspires me more, it adds more fuel to the fire.

I believe in my own ability, and I believe I've got the beating of it reaches progress. And I believe I'll win this tournament, and I'll become unified champion of the division and Lister Alley Trophy. So whatever the odds say or the so-called experts say, it doesn't really matter to me. I know I'm going to win that final.

I might be wrong, Josh, but I got the impression that he was slightly taken aback by the fervour in the crowd. How important do you think it is that you get the fight in Scotland? It would be great to have the fight in Scotland, you know, because having the big nights in my career in front of my home friends and my home fans and my friends and family and that's amazing

you know I love to have all my big fights there now but you know if I've got to travel I've got to travel it really doesn't bother me at all not one bit I mean I've been used to travel in my whole career as an amateur and most of my professional career as well so I'm more than happy to travel if I have to you know I'd love to fight in America

on a big show anyway so that was another dream of mine and another one on the bucket list so if that happens that's even better that's even another box in the list ticked you know so yeah great so it doesn't matter to me where it is great stuff really appreciate your time Josh

and congratulations fantastic performance thank you for joining us no problem thank you very much cheers Josh Taylor into the world boxing super series final Steve and I thought it was a performance and listening to George Groves who was one of the pundits on the Sky Sports

studio coverage of it he was saying he boxed like he was in a tournament with the final to come in mind and therefore keeping just something in reserve. And I got that feeling that there was on the night more to come and there will be more to come against Regis Progrey, the American in the final. And there'll need to be more to come.

There'll need to be a little bit of what we saw coming out a bit more because he's right really. It's a stranger thing because obviously one of the judges, had made it only 7-5 in rounds, but obviously Josh gets extra points for the two knockdowns in the 6. But 7-5 is quite tight, but he's absolutely right. It was an easy fight in some ways. Now, it was interesting because you and I were at Stephenie,

so we'll get him reports and he's really, he's dropped him twice in the six. No, no, he's come right back. It's, oh, there was nothing in it. Well, that was the story at Stevenage at ringside. By the time he sat down and watched it, cold light of day, Sunday morning. No, it was hard, it was this, it was this, and Baranchik never stopped, and he tried coming in from this side and swinging this way and swinging that way and hitting him low and buttoning him and his shoulder and elbow.

But Taylor kind of cruised it in some ways, Mike. He sort of was a bizarre. I mean, I made it about a 9-3 or even a 10-2 with the extra two points for the knockdown. Branchick was in every round, apart from the one when he was knocked down. He was saying that he was swinging up until the point, you know, the fight, the bell in the six.

But Taylor just done it. So I think there is more to come. And I think sitting at ringside little Regis was probably looking and he's probably a smart judge. I have a feeling he might be a smarter cookie than we think Regis program. You know, he's got that sort of great backstory, you know, New Orleans and some sort of phantom that follows him around and protects him through life because they love all that,

that voodoo stuff down in New Orleans. It's all rubbish. I mean, I'll be honest for him, Mike. It's all garbage. But that's neither here or not there. He means it, and it works for him. So the Ruberu, I think it's called, or the Rougaroo. So I think he was sitting there, and he was watching, and he's seeing Taylor. He's looking at Taylor's feet. He's looking at that first South Pole right hook that dropped Varanchik, and he knows how tough Varanchik is. You know, he knows how tough Varanchik is.

And I think he went away with some food to thought. Then when he got in the ring at the end, it was quite telling. He gets in the ring all happy and smiley and praising. And then you can see when they get close. You can't hear the words. because you see McGregan move in to move him away. Taylor obviously is still hyped up and gets in his ear a little bit. And I'll tell you what, he didn't look very comfortable then Regis Programme, did he?

He didn't look very comfortable. Whatever Taylor had said to him, he didn't look very comfortable. And I thought, maybe, I'm not saying that's the first round of Taylor, but he certainly won the opening minute of the first round. And potentially that's one of the best fights of the second half of 2019 for me. On the undercard, Steve, the brilliant Japanese Nailia Inouye beating the Puerto Rican Mani Rodriguez in just two rounds. A quite stunning performance,

and that's generated some emails, Steve, for and against us, John Robertson says, much like Mike, I'm a big Nioa Enouet fan, so made the decision to go up to Glasgow to watch him perform live at the World Boxing Super Series event this weekend passed.

It's safe to say, I wasn't disappointed. What a performance and what a fighter. The atmosphere at Glasgow was fantastic, helped, of course, by Josh Taylor's superb performance. And then this from Daniel Loftus, very disappointing that there was no mention of the Inouye versus Rodriguez semi-final in previous pods. A genuine pound-for-pound great fighting in Britain, and he doesn't get a mention.

It was probably the most intriguing fight of the year so far. Was Inouet really as good as he appeared? Could he fight outside of Japan? These are questions that had to be answered. What would he be like against a classy, tough, world-class opponent like Rodriguez? All that was answered in the most brutal display of power this weekend. Wilder might get all the headlines, but pound for pound, Inouet, is the last. the biggest hitter in boxing today.

Well, Daniel, we don't do shopping lists week in, week out, but I accept that Inouet was at least worth of mention, but it's not as if we haven't mentioned him over the last couple of years, Steve. Quite a reverse. You've personally pushed him like crazy. I mean, you sort of unofficial secretary

of Inouye Appreciation Society. And another email, Steve, from Neil Caesar, says, guys, you need to reconsider your pound-for-pound list. Inouet is smashing world-class opponents like were novices. He's the number one for me. Difficult to argue with that on the basis of his performance against Rodriguez, which, incidentally, you can see on the BBC Sport website, there's a clip of the highlights of the fight. And we're going to watch those now, Steve, and give our assessment as we go through. And as the bell sounds at the start of the first round, the first thing that strikes me is how much bigger Rodriguez looks, given that Inouez moved up to his third weight division. And he takes a right hand from Rodriguez inside the first 10 seconds of the fight. looking at the tweet that Lennox Lewis sent about Dominic Brazil, he said you've got to take a fight to the puncher, which he didn't do against Wilder.

And then as he moves on towards the first knockdown, and you see the left hook land, and I'm just going to stop the action there, because if you go back, wherever you're watching this, if you now spool back, the left hand has landed. Brilliant shot, having made Rodriguez miss with his left hook, he swings around, puts all his body weight into the shot. If you watch the left hook landing on the chin of Rodriguez,

as the shorts. The shorts judder. The shorts judder. That's the whole body weight being thrown into that single shot. Everything goes into that show, Mike. He transfers the power from both feet and the punch comes across.

But it's in the opening round, okay? And you see it in the highlights, the clip, there's a really short little film brilliantly cut down. And what he does in that third one is he's measuring and he's looking. And you can see him going back and looking. And if you watch the entire three minutes,

you say, there he is measuring the right hand. That's not going to come again. There he is measuring the left hook. But when he throws the left hook, he's right hands up. protected himself. This guy is punch perfect. He's miller meter perfect. And that right hand that I was talking about that Rodriguez landed right in the first 10 seconds. He tried it again later on in the No chance. And by that time, Inouet was starting to read him. So we carry on now after the first

knockdown and Rodriguez bravely gets to his feet and staggers over to the corner. This is a man who's had 19 professional fights, won them all at this stage, who we were celebrating after his win against Paul Butler. Now the right hand to the body goes. down. Now watch the expression on his face as he looks across to the corner. That's like Curtis Stevens against Ghanardi Golovkin. He looks up as if to say, this isn't what I expected. This is like nothing I've ever felt before. And in comes now Enouye to finish off the fight. And this is where he gets at his most ragged, but he knows he can punch with impunity. He's got nothing coming back. And Rodriguez goes down. Again, he looks at his corner as if to say,

I used to box. What's this called? This is a different sport. No complaint at the end either there, Mike. He knows it's all over. Two rounds. Two rounds against a man that many had actually given a chance against the new way

because of the potential natural weight advantage. Rodriguez gave himself a massive chance against him and people on Adam Booth who we were ringside within Stephenage

he said I've got half a feeling it because obviously he's with Ryan Burnett who was in this tournament lost in the early stage because he suffered a back problem a lot of people giving Rodriguez a chance I'd like to tell what I'd love to do

I'd love to speak to Rodriguez about what went through his mind at the end of the first round? Did he know that he was being set up for what was coming? Or did he go back after that round thinking, you know what, it's not too bad. I've caught him with one right hand. I'll close the gap and catch him with another. And you see him being interviewed here, Steve,

at the end of this particular clip, and he's got a face like a choir boy. And as you stand across him at weigh-ins and at press conferences, as an opponent, you must wonder, has anybody ever landed a shot on this fellow? And going back to that tweet that Lennox Lewis sent about Dominic Brazil, about you've got to go forward and take it to a puncher,

which fair play Rodriguez tried to do. He also said that you shouldn't be throwing a left hook when a man's got a strong right hand. Well, Rodriguez has got a strong right hand and he knew he was throwing the left hook. He was making that very mistake. But he backed himself. He backed himself with the speed.

He backed himself with the judgment. Carl Frampton always used to talk about measuring distance, how he measures distance, given that he's moved up now, 10 pounds in weight through three weight divisions. And 10 pounds down, relatively speaking, in those weight divisions is a monster difference compared to moving up from middle to super middle

as Billy Joe Saunders did. It's 10% of your body weight. It's 10% of his body weight he's gained. And I wonder what he walks around that because the first thing I did, one of the first things I did Sunday morning after the fight, was have a little look at the Superbantoms and have a look at the small feathers.

Why not? Because what are we dealing with here? We're dealing with a flyweight, super flyweight, Pacio, who 15 years later is winning the middleweight title and the light middleweight title. We're looking at all sorts of chaos and madness. And he's as tall as those guys.

Why not, Mike? What if this guy, people might say no chance bunsey. What if this guy goes up the super feather? What if this guy is matched with Giovonter Davis in 2021? You might laugh now, but why not? This is a kind of lunatic super, mixed weight, mixed promotion stuff. That's where we're heading. That's where our business is going.

You know, McGregor, your mate, and Mayweather, that's going to become the norm, that type of stuff going for. We're going to have stuff like this all the time. So why not throw a Nui in with Giovanna Davis in 18 months time as a dream fight now? That's what I'm saying, as a dream fight. Hey, Pauli Malanagi was saying to me, just over a month ago, Steve, when Amir Khan fought Terence Crawford, what a joy it was to watch Crawford at ringside, how blessed Crawford is in terms of boxing skills. We're watching Terence Crawford. We're watching Vasil Lomachenko.

we're watching Alexander Usik and now Naoya Inouye, who as Neil Caesar says, might well be number one amongst them all but what a time to be a boxing fan. Well those are the elite might those are the global champions, champions that could stand a test of time, you know, champions forever they can go wandering through any

decade. We've got seven at the moment here in Britain. Seven. And I can assure you it's seven all on about the same sort of level, it's kind of thing. There's not one forgotten one, there's seven of them. And the latest Billy Joe Saunders and Josh Taylor at the weekend. Billy Joe Saunders outpointing the German-based Serbian,

who considers himself a passionate Albanian chef at Isufi on points over 12 rounds. Looking at the Box Wreck ranking, Steve, Isufi only number six in Germany, let alone across the planet. And it looked like it. I mean, there was a scare in the sixth round with the right hand early on that Billy Joe Saunders was taking simply because he was so complacent. But apart from that, question marks as to how the WBO could actually have ranked him, believe it or not, above Billy Joe Saunders in their rankings.

The WBO 25 years ago, Paco Valcicell always reminds me of this, ranked a dead man. Not once. They actually moved him up from 9th to 7th. And I pointed this out to Paco, and he just said, you know, it happens. And it was one of the, it was the only time I think I ever had a story of mine reprinted in the New York Times.

So that was possibly one of their worst ever pieces of ratings. but a Sufi should never have been number one. He would have been a perfect old-style first defence, a homecoming defence. You know, the sort of defence that Joe Kowzaki had when he beat Chris Eubank in that incredible fight and then he fights some guy back in Cardiff, you know, that type of thing,

a homecoming for Billy Joe having won the title on the road or against a really hard opponent. But that's our business. That's the way it works. It's happened before dozens and dozens of times, doesn't make it right. And it will happen again,

dozens and dozens of times, doesn't make it right. Billy won every single round, even the six round when he got clipped. He probably still nicked the round because he got half clipped. It's a pity he got clipped, Mike, because I'm absolutely convinced

that Isufi was feeling soy for himself and Billy was enjoying himself and planting his feet and getting close after that. So we had six rounds of a very aggressive Billy Joe Saunders. Then we had six rounds of the Billy Joe Saunders, we know. The Billy Joe Saunders, that will cause,

everybody problems. That's not he'll beat everybody, that's he'll cause everybody problems. Andy Lee was commentating on Five Live with me at ringside, Steve, and was saying that Billy Joe Saunders' first instinct is self-preservation, and that's where he went to in the last six rounds. But I thought it was an invaluable 12 rounds for him, given that, you know, he'd only had the Charles Adamu fight in the past 17 months. But it means, Steve, seven world champions in Britain right now. And if you look down the list from Anthony Joshua at heavyweight, coming down in weight. You've got Callum Smith, then Saunders, then Josh Taylor, Josh Warrington, Cal Yaffai and Charlie Edwards. Six of those, all of them apart from

Josh Warrington, have been involved in an Olympic squad or been on an Olympic squad. And by that, I mean, they've gone to the Olympic Games, or in the case of the likes of Cal Yaffai and Charlie Edwards, they've been very close to getting a place at the Olympic Games. And likewise, Callum Smith just failed to qualify in the last of the qualifying tournaments ahead of London 2012. But they've all been on, that G.B. and they've all been in that environment in Sheffield where we often go to interview Anthony Joshua, absolutely priceless in their development, but how the professional game is benefiting from all of this preparation that they get as Olympic boxers.

Well, as you say, the sixth year that have been through the system, either Olympic medals, Commonwealth medals, World Medals, European medals, and countless tournaments. I mean, they've probably been at 30 major events between them this month, probably have 300 fights at the highest of levels. Now Mike, in three years' time, if there's 7 or 8 world champions, it will be the same makeup. And in five years time, it will be the same makeup.

Going forward after the next four or five years, that's when we might have a problem, depending on how the Olympic stuff goes. Because this is not us inventing stats. These are absolute stats that you cannot dispute. six of the seven world champions at the moment were not just amateurs, good amateurs. Oh, we box for England, which is the old thing in the 70s and the 80s stuff that you and I are familiar with. These are guys that have benefited 100% from funding, from centres, from European worlds,

under 19 worlds, under 19 Europeans, Commonwealth, staggering stats. And going forward, everyone that we're talking about moving on to this level, they've got the same history. And this is a really crucial week, Steve, for Olympic boxing. because the International Olympic Committee meet to decide whether it will be Aiba, the international governing body for boxing and Olympic boxing around the world, can be given the clearance to organise the qualification programme and more importantly, the boxing tournament at next year's Olympic Games.

In the last few days, we've heard that Aiba have agreed to put on hold their threat to sue the International Olympic Committee, although we're told legal action remains a possibility. but a delegation from Aiba are meeting as we speak today Monday with the IOC they're making a last ditch plea to allow Aiba to organise

the boxing for next year. We've spoken in the past about how the International Olympic Committee have great concerns about judging, about finance and about the ex-president Gafu Arakimov who has now stood down but they want to be convinced that he is no longer involved in any way

that he's not still having influence from the sidelines. So the big meeting is on Wednesday of this week when they are expected to decide what happens regarding Olympic boxing in Tokyo next year. And Mike, they have to start thinking about getting something in place very quickly because we're moving closer and closer to an inevitable kind of invite only situation with individual boxers being asked to come or individual federations being asked to come. And it's going to be tough putting in place even two or three big, big events.

And of course, the problem is, unless IOC and IEBA do some kind of shaking hands, extending olive branches, Mike, if IA are completely rejected, kicked out in the cold, where do all of the associations, federations, whatever you want to call them, national associations go? What do they do? Do they jump ship to some other body? or if they stay with our Eibah, what about the ones that haven't been back in the Aiba leadership?

Either way, we're not across that line yet. People might be talking boldly. G.B Squad might be going around the world picking up medals every single week. But we're not in Tokyo yet, Mike. We are not in Tokyo yet. So a big decision to come on Wednesday of this week, one that we will assess and analyze in next week's podcast,

just to finish this week with a couple of our iTunes reviews. This one from Perfecto Fox, who says he's a bit of a casual boxing fan. But every now and again, he says, we throw in a few real gems. The interview with the fella on cuts was fantastic. That's going back a few weeks now to Kerry Kay's, who was brilliant. Love your work. Mike and Steve says, perfecto Fox. And this one from Andy, the lumberjack says, love to chat with George Groves

and his honest insights into what can make or break a fighter or an athlete on the fringe. He made the most of his ability, he says, and his opportunities through determination. and hard work. I like the lack of ego and the arrogance now that it's all over. That's in reference to George Groves,

who was our guest last week. Next week, Steve, it's New York and the build-up to Anthony Joshua against Andy Ruiz. And what do we do about locations,

Mike? Last time you asked for locations, they sent us out, they, someone sent us out to a park. What are we thinking next week? What's your travel head

saying to you? I'm thinking because it's heavyweights, because of our leave phrasing, we've got to do something in an emmer, team Madison Square Garden and just wander back and just dream and imagine what what it was all about and what it was like.

Well my man Larry Torres, who's the king of the garden, Larry is going to sort us out. If we don't get to do this pod from the floor exactly where the ring will be, I'll be very disappointed in my persuasive powers. We'll be back next week from New York with the latest five live boxing

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