60 Minutes - 10/14/2018: President Trump, The Photo Ark

Episode Date: October 15, 2018

President Trump talks to Lesley Stahl about a number of hot-button topics -- including his controversial tariffs, North Korea, Russia, and the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Go behind the scenes of one of TV's most watched true crime series with the 48 Hours Postmortem Podcast, where correspondents and producers take you inside each case. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours and then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, every Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you really think I'd call Russia to help me with an election? Give me a break. After two years, President Trump is back on 60 Minutes, talking about his accomplishments. We were going to war with North Korea. Now you don't hear that.

And controversies. How did you get home? I don't remember. How did you get there? I don't remember. Where is the place? I don't remember. How many years ago was it? I don't know. You mimicked Professor Blasey Ford. You mimicked her. And had I not made that speech, we would not have won. In a wide-ranging interview, and what have you learned since you've been president? I always used to say the toughest

people are Manhattan real estate guys and blah, blah. Now I say they're babies. Who's the toughest? The political people. This is the most deceptive, vicious world. It is vicious. It's full of lies, deceit and deception. To catch Joel Sartori in action, we flew halfway around the world. What makes a great picture? Emotion. We're looking for the eyes. We're primates and we're really, really responsive to eyes. But you shoot them like they're models. We do, like they're going in for their high school senior portrait. He's trying to photograph every animal, bird, fish, reptile, and insect in captivity.

He calls his project the photo arc. In the Bible, the arc saves all the creatures on earth. Yeah. Is that your goal? Giddy up. Every one of them. I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Scott Pelley. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Bill Whitaker. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. you inside each case. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours and then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, every Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. When Americans vote in next month's midterm elections, it's likely President Trump and his agenda will be motivating them as much as any candidate or local issue on the ballot. Almost two years ago, when we last interviewed then-President-elect Trump, he seemed surprised he had won, not that he'd ever admit that to us. Well, when we sat down with him this past Thursday in the White House,

we found him confident and boastful as he told us he has learned on the job. He was eager to joust over the issues of the day, the economy, China and Russia, and of course, fake news. But we started with very real news, the suspected murder of a Saudi journalist and the catastrophe of Hurricane Michael, which has devastated parts of the Florida panhandle, claiming at least 19 lives and leaving hundreds of thousands without power across the Southeast. Michael comes on the heels of a series of super storms.

Florence in the Carolinas, Maria in Puerto Rico, Harvey in Texas. Do you still think that climate change is a hoax? Look, I think something's happening, something's changing, and it'll change back again. I don't think it's a hoax. I think there's probably a difference, but I don't know that it's man-made. I will say this. I don't want to give trillions and trillions of dollars. I don't want to lose millions and millions of jobs. I don't want to be put at a disadvantage. I wish you could go to Greenland, watch these huge chunks of ice just falling into the ocean, raising the sea levels. And you don't know whether or not that would have happened with or without man? You don't know?

Well, you're scientists. You're scientists at NOAA and NASA. No, we have scientists that disagree with that. You know, I was thinking, what if he said, no, I've seen the hurricane situations. I've changed my mind. There really is climate change. And I thought, wow, what an impact. What an impact that would make. I'm not denying climate change, but it could very well go back. You know, we're talking about over millions of years.

They say that we had hurricanes that were far worse than what we just had with Michael. Who says that? They say. I mean, in the... Yeah, but what about the scientists who say it's worse than ever? You'd have to show me the scientists because they have a very big political agenda. I can't bring them in. Scientists also have a political agenda. Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist, the Saudi journalist. Was he murdered by the Saudis? And did the prince give the order to kill him?

Nobody knows yet, but we'll probably be able to find out. It's being investigated. It's being looked at very, very strongly. And we would be very upset and angry if that were the case. As of this moment, they deny it. And they deny it vehemently. Could it be them? Yes.

Jared, your son-in-law, got on the phone and asked the prince. Did he deny it? They deny it. They deny it every way you can imagine. In the not-too-distant future, I think we'll know an answer. What are your options? Let's say they did. What are your options? Would you consider imposing sanctions as a bipartisan group of senators had proposed? Well, it depends on what the sanction is. I'll give you an example.

They are ordering military equipment. Everybody in the world wanted that order. Russia wanted it. China wanted it. We wanted it. We got it. So would you cut that off? Well, I'll tell you what I don't want to do. Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, all these companies. I don't want to hurt jobs. I don't want to lose an order like that. There are other ways of punishing, to use a word that's a pretty harsh word, but it's true. Tell everybody what's at stake here. Well, there's a lot at stake. There's a lot at stake. And maybe especially so because this man was a reporter.

There's something you'll be surprised to hear me say that there's something really terrible and disgusting about that if that were the case. So we're going to have to see. We're going to get to the bottom of it and there will be severe punishment. You've had a string of wins lately. Let's see, the economy, the trade deal with Canada and Mexico, and South Korea, and Kavanaugh, the confirmation. There has been no administration in the history of our country, and I say this openly and proudly, that in its first two years... Say this modestly. Well, it's not even that. It's a fact.

Tax cuts, regulation cuts, the biggest regulation cuts in history. What about North Korea? Well, I consider it a, so far, great achievement. Look, we... When you say so far... It's always so far until everything's done. I, you know, deals are deals, okay? Whether it's a real estate deal or a retail deal, it doesn't matter. But I will say this. The day before I came in, we were going to war with North Korea.

I sat with President Obama. We were going to war. We were going to I think it was going to end up in war. And my impression is and even in my first few months, I mean, that rhetoric was as tough as it could possibly get. It doesn't get any tougher than that. Nobody's ever heard rhetoric that tough. We were going to war with North Korea. Now, you don't hear that. You don't hear any talk of it.

And he doesn't want to go to war. And we don't want to go to war. And he understands denuclearization. And he's agreed to it. And you see that. He's it do you trust him i do trust him yeah i trust him that doesn't mean i can't be proven why would you trust him well first of all if i didn't trust him i wouldn't say that to you wouldn't i be foolish to tell you right here on 60 minutes well remember what reagan said trust but verify sure i know it's it very true. But the fact is, I do trust them. But we'll see what happens.

But is it true that they haven't gotten rid of a single weapon and they may actually be building more missiles with nuclear? They want to, and I will tell you that they're closing up sites. But is what I said true, that they haven't? Well, nobody really knows. I mean, people are saying that. I've actually said that. What, that they're still building missiles, more missiles?

We don't really know, Leslie. We really don't know. But I assume, let's say the answer is yes. In the meantime, they haven't tested a missile. They haven't tested a rocket. They definitely haven't done a nuclear test, because you know about them real fast. It sort of moves the Earth. And we have a relationship now. One of the things that Kim has asked for is for you to ease the

sanctions. We haven't done that. Are you prepared to do that? No. What does he have to do before you? This isn't the Obama administration. I haven't used the sanctions. I haven't done anything. I haven't done anything. We're meeting. I believe he likes me. I like him. We have a good relationship. It's very important. And then we fell in love. Okay. No, really. He wrote me beautiful letters and they're great letters. We fell in love. I want to read you his resume, okay? Go ahead. He presides over a cruel kingdom of repression, gulags, starvation, reports that he had his half-brother assassinated, slave labor, public executions. This is a guy you love. I know all these things. I mean, I'm not a baby.

I know all these things. I know, but why do you love that guy? Look, look. I get along with him, okay? But you said love him. Okay, that's just a figure of speech. No, it's like an embrace. Well, let it be an embrace.

Let it be whatever it is to get the job done. He's a bad guy. Look, let it be whatever it is. I get along with him really well. I have a good energy with him. I have a good chemistry with him. Look at the horrible threats that were made. No more threats.

No more threats. China. I get along with them. That's very important. China. Let's go. Skipping across the world here. You've slapped a lot of tariffs on them.

$250 billion. Going to do more? Might. Might. Depends. Round three? They want to negotiate, Leslie. They want to negotiate.

Are you ready? Look. Are you ready? Look. Are you ready to? I have a great chemistry also with President Xi of China. I don't know that that's necessarily going to continue. I told President Xi, we cannot continue to have China take $500 billion a year out of the United States in the form of trade and other things. And how... And I said we can't do that, and we're not going to do that anymore.

How much squeezing of them are you prepared to do when American products are going to be more expensive for American consumers in the end of all this? So, so far that hasn't turned out to be the case. If you think about it, so far, I put 25% tariffs on steel dumping and aluminum dumping 10%. But they've retaliated. That's what I'm asking. They can retaliate, but they don't have enough ammunition to retaliate. We do $100 billion with them.

They do $531 billion with us. Are you trying to sort of push them into a depression? No, no, although they're down 32% in four months, which is 1929. Well, that's what I'm asking. No, I don't want that. I want them to negotiate a fair deal with us. I want them to open their markets like our markets are open. But you're in a trade war right now.

You call it a war. I don't call it a war. You did today. I called it a skirmish. I heard you. You called it a war. I called it, actually, I called it a battle. But actually, I'm going to lower that. I consider it a skirmish. And we're going to win.

You have also slapped some tariffs on our allies. Well, I mean, what's an ally? We have wonderful relationships with a lot of people, but nobody treats us much worse than the European Union. The European Union was formed in order to take advantage of us on trade, and that's what they've done. But this is hostile. And yet it's not hostile.

It sounds hostile. You know what's hostile? The way they treat us. We're not hostile. No, but can't you deal with them? We've been the stupid country for so many years. Are you willing to get rid of that Western alliance? Now, I like NATO.

NATO's fine. But you know what? We shouldn't be paying almost the entire cost of NATO to protect Europe. And then on top of that, they take advantage of us on trade. They're not going to do it anymore. They understand that. Okay, but are you, it does seem this. Are you willing to disrupt the Western alliance?

It's been going for 70 years. It's kept the peace for 70 years. You don't know that. You don't know that. I don't know what? You don't know that. Is it true, General Mattis said to you, the reason for NATO and the reason for all these alliances is to prevent World War III? No, it's not true.

Frankly, I like General Mattis. I think I know more about it than he does. And I know more about it from the standpoint of fairness. That I can tell you. I'm going to try one more time. Okay. You don't have to try again. I know exactly what you're saying.

Answer my question. The answer is this. I will always be there with NATO, but they have to pay their way. I'm fully in favor of NATO, but I don't want to be taken advantage of. Putin. Yeah. Okay. People don't understand why you never have a harsh word for Vladimir Putin.

Okay, you ready? I don't understand. You don't know what I talked vladimir putin okay you're right i don't understand i have been you don't know what i talked about with putin in the meeting prior to the press i mean publicly you never say anything harsh excuse me i didn't i'm the one that gave ukraine offensive weapons and tank killers obama didn't you know what he sent he sent pillows and blankets i'm the one and he's the one that gave away a part of Ukraine, where Russia now has this submarine. Well, I mean him personally. Vladimir Putin.

I think I'm very tough with him personally. I had a meeting with him, the two of us. It was a very tough meeting, and it was a very good meeting. Do you agree that Vladimir Putin is involved in assassinations, in poisonings? Probably he is. Yeah, probably. I mean, I don't know. Probably. Probably. But I rely on them. It's not in our country. Okay. Why? Why not? They shouldn't do it. This is a terrible thing. Of course they shouldn't do it. Do you believe that the Russians interfered in the 2016 campaign election? Well, they meddled. But I think China med meddled too. But why do you say

China meddled too? And you want to know something else? Why don't you just say the Russians meddled? Because I think China meddled also. And I think, frankly, China is a bigger problem. You're diverting the whole Russian thing. I'm not doing anything. I'm saying Russia, but I'm also saying China. But it's the investigation of Russia's intervention in the 2016 election that hangs over his presidency and caused a rift with his attorney general, Jeff Sessions, because he recused himself from the inquiry. What about the attorney general, Jeff Sessions? Well, we'll see what happens come midterms. But everybody thinks he's dead.

I was disappointed that he recused himself, and many people think I was right on that. I was very disappointed. Why should he have recused himself? So I was very disappointed, but we'll see what happens. Can I assume he's gone? No, no, you can't assume that. Will you pledge that you will not shut down the Mueller investigation? Well, I don't pledge anything, but I will tell you, I have no intention of doing that. I think it's a very unfair investigation because there was no collusion of any kind.

But you won't pledge? I don't want to pledge. Why should I pledge to you? If I pledge, I'll pledge. I don't have to pledge to you, but I have no intention of doing kind. But you won't pledge? There is no collusion. I don't want to pledge. Why should I pledge to you? If I pledge, I'll pledge. I don't have to pledge to you, but I have no intention of doing it. To date, 32 people have been charged or pled guilty in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. President Trump's campaign chairman, top campaign aide, former national security advisor, and longtime personal attorney are all cooperating in the inquiry the president calls a witch hunt. Do you really think I'd call Russia to help me with an election? Give me a break. They wouldn't be able to help me at all. Call Russia. So ridiculous.

When I found out my friend got a great deal on a designer dress from Winners, I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners? Like that woman over there with the Italian leather handbag. Is that from Winners? Ooh, or that beautiful silk skirt. Did she pay full price? Or those suede sneakers? Or that luggage?

Or that trench? Those jeans? That jacket? Those heels? Is anyone paying full price for anything? Stop wondering, start winning. Winners find fabulous for less. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered

without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. One thing the president loves to talk about, and for good reason, is the economy. Consumer confidence is higher than it's been in nearly two decades, and unemployment at 3.7% is the lowest in nearly 50 years. And yet, there's an ugly mood in the air. We're a country torn by angry, bitter, partisan divisions.

And there are many who say the president isn't helping. We talked with the president about that, the contentious Kavanaugh hearings, questions of chaos in his administration, and his record so far. So you've been president for almost two years. Is there anything that you wish you hadn't said, anything you wish you hadn't done? Do you have any regrets? So when I won the presidency, I thought,

the press treats me terribly. I thought very strongly that, you know, the one great thing will happen is the press will start treating me great. Lastly, they treat me worse. They got worse instead of better. Very dishonest. Is this what you regret?

I regret that the press treats me so badly. I'm really asking. And despite that, my poll numbers are very good. Have you made any mistakes? That's my question. Everybody makes mistakes. And what have been yours? I could have been earlier with

terminating the NAFTA deal. The problem was I was getting to know the leaders. I was getting to know countries. I didn't want to do it right out of the box. So I waited a little while, but I could have done trade a little bit earlier. What about the forced separation of children from their migrant children? Well, that was the same as the Obama law. You know, Obama had the same thing. It was on the books, but he didn't enforce it. You enforced it. You launched that zero tolerance policy to deter families with children. No, but then everybody decided and the courts don't want separation. And frankly, when you don't do separate, when you allow the parents to stay together, okay, when you allow that, then what happens is people are going to pour into our country. So are you going to go back to that? Well, we're looking at a lot of things. Really,

what we want to do is change the immigration laws because they're a laughingstock all over the world. Are you willing, though? I think that you're saying it's under consideration. No, I want all the laws changed. There have to be consequences, Leslie, for coming into our country illegally. And part of the reason, I have to blame myself, the economy is so strong that everybody wants to come

into the United States. Can I just ask this simple question, yes or no? Go ahead. Are you willing to reinstitute that policy? You said we're looking at everything. Yes or no? I will only, I can't, you can't say yes or no.

What I can say is this. There are consequences from coming into a country, namely our country, illegally. I'm not going to ask it again. You don't have to. But it's the same as Obama. Okay, changing subjects again. You are the first president of the United States who never had a political post before, never served in the military. You come up here, you've been here for almost two years.

What's the biggest surprise? And what have you learned since you've been president? Okay, so I always used to say the toughest people are Manhattan real estate guys and blah, blah. Now I say they're babies. Who's the toughest? The political people. This is the most deceptive, vicious world. It is vicious. It's full of lies, deceit, and deception. You make a deal with somebody and it's like making a deal with that table. Give me an example. Well, I don't want to give you an example. I'm not looking at it. In the meantime, nobody's been able to do what I've been able to do. Remember that when you look at taxes, you look at regulations,

you look at making deals with other countries. Nobody's been able to do anything like this. Actually, most people didn't even try because they knew they didn't have the ability to do it. But it's a very deceptive world. The other thing I've really learned is I never knew how dishonest the media was. I really mean it. I'm not saying that as a soundbite. I never knew how dishonest. I'm going to change the subject again.

No, but even the way you asked me a question like about separation. Yeah. When I say Obama did it, you don't want to talk about it. No. When I say I did it, let's make a big deal out of it. I'm going to run your answer, but Obama did it, you don't want to talk about it. No. When I say I did it, let's make a big deal. I'm going to run your answer. But you did it four times. I'm just telling you that you treated me much differently on the subject. I disagree, but I don't want to have that fight with you.

Hey, it's OK. Leslie, it's OK. In the meantime, I'm president and you're not. It's a presidency like no other. He's redefined the office with a governing style that's more freewheeling, in-your-face New York... Please sit down. ...than buttoned-up Washington. Right now we're in a great position. He's not shy about trumpeting his victories, but some have come with a cost.

This country is divided, polarized. Within families, there aren't even people who can talk to each other. What does this say about where we are as a country right now? All this division and strife and anger. I think that what's going to happen, I think the economy is bringing people together. It was very polarized under President Obama, unbelievably polarized under President Obama. I can see the country uniting. I can see it. We have people, Democrats, who behaved horribly during the Judge Kavanaugh.

You know what I'm saying. During the hearings for the Supreme Court, we had senators that behaved horribly. But when you won, you won. No one is going to argue with that. I won. And then after you won, instead of saying, oh, let's all come together. This is wonderful. Let's heal all of this.

You come out and bash the Democrats. Well, I bashed their attitude. I bashed their statements. But why not try to bring us together? It was so unfair to Judge Kavanaugh. I've never seen anything like it. Why not try to? We need to be healed. We need. I don't think they want to heal yet. I'll be honest. Well, you don't want to heal yet. I saw Hillary Clinton made a really nasty statement. I don't think they want to be healed. I do want to heal. I'm not talking about Democrats. I'm talking about the country. You go out and you go to Mississippi.

The famous Mississippi speech. I had one beer. Well, do you think it was? Nope, it was one beer. Oh, good. How did you get home? I don't remember. How did you get there?

I don't remember. Where is the place? I don't remember. How many years ago was it? I don't know. I don't know. And you mimicked Professor Blasey Ford. You mimicked her. Had I not made that speech, we would not have won.

I was just saying she didn't seem to know anything. And you're trying to destroy a life of a man who has been extraordinary. Why did you have to make fun of her? I didn't really make fun of her. What I said is the person that we're talking about didn't know the year, the time, the place. Professor Blasey Ford got before the Senate and was asked, what's the worst moment? And she said, when the two boys laughed at me, at my expense.

And then I watched you mimic her and thousands of people were laughing at her. They can do what they... I will tell you this. The way now Justice Kavanaugh was treated has become a big factor in the midterms. Have you seen what's gone on with the polls? But did you have to... Well, I think she was treated with great respect. I'll be honest with you. But do you think you treated her with... There are those that she shouldn't have been.

Do you think you treated her with great respect? I think so, yeah, I did. But you seem to be saying that she lied. You know what? I'm not going to get into it because we won. It doesn't matter. We won. Ever since the Mississippi speech, he's been out campaigning, rallying his supporters for the midterm elections. But back in Washington, he's had to deal with reports of internal strife in his administration. The anonymous column that ran in the New York Times, the author, we don't know who it is. Maybe it was the New York Times, too. Paints a picture.

By the way, you don't know how dishonest the New York Times is. It could have been the New York Times. I doubt it. OK. It could have been. I the way, you don't know how dishonest the New York Times is. It could have been the New York Times. I doubt it. Okay. It could have been. I doubt it, too. It also could have been any, well, don't count on it. It also could have been any one of 3,000 people.

The anonymous op-ed column told of a resistance within the Trump administration who've questioned his fitness for office. You have said that this administration is like a smooth-running machine, and yet we keep hearing that the White House is in chaos. It's so false. It's fake news. I'm changing things around, and I'm entitled to. I have people now on standby that will be phenomenal. They'll come into the administration. They'll be phenomenal.

More people going to go? Yeah, other people will go, sure. Because so people. You have a kind of a record of turnover. I think I have a great cabinet. There are some people that I'm not happy with. Who are you not happy with? I don't want to say that. Come on. No, I don't want to say that. But I have some people that I'm not thrilled with. And I have other people that I'm beyond thrilled with. What about General Mattis? Is he going to leave? Well, I don't know. He hasn't told me that. I have a very good relationship with him.

It could be that he is. I think he's sort of a Democrat, if you want to know the truth. But General Mattis is a good guy. We get along very well. He may leave. I mean, at some point, everybody leaves.

Everybody. People leave. That's Washington. The First Lady. Yes. Melania. She said that there are still people in the White House that she doesn't trust and that you shouldn't trust. I feel the same way. I don't trust everybody in the White House. I'll be honest with you.

You go to a meeting. Do you have to wonder? Is he wearing a wire? I'm usually good. Not so much a wire. I'm usually guarded. And I think I'm guarded anyway. But I'm not saying I trust everybody in the White House. I'm not a baby. It's a tough business. This is a vicious place. Washington, D.C. is a vicious, vicious place.

The attacks, the bad-mouthing, the speaking behind your back. But, you know, in my way, I feel very comfortable here. It takes a president a while to find his sea legs. I think so. I mean, I felt comfortable at the beginning, other than it was a little surreal to say I'm the president of the United States, but I think that's true with everybody. POTUS. Now I very much feel like POTUS. I do. I feel like the president. You know, for a little while, it's like, Mr. President, sir. It's even my friends, they call me, they don't call me Donald, but they call me Mr. President. I say, will you please loosen up? I've learned on the job I have. And you feel comfortable. I feel very comfortable. Yeah. Joel Sartori, an acclaimed National Geographic photographer, is a man on a mission.

He's trying to photograph every species, every animal, bird, fish, reptile, and insect in captivity. Sartori sides with scientists who estimate half the species alive today could be extinct by the end of this century. So he travels to zoos around the world to take pictures of what we're losing and to ignite conservation efforts to prevent extinctions. He calls his project the photo arc. On this arc, the animals go in one by one. He's beautiful, isn't he?

To catch Joel Sartori in action, we flew halfway around the world to the Philippines, home to hundreds of unique species. Flew 20 hours to get here. And you came all this way to take a picture of a Palawan stink badger. Absolutely. Absolutely. Boys, he's stinky. He's smaller than a skunk, but smells worse. He's part badger, part skunk, and he fired a reeking rocket after he entered the photo cage.

How could something that cute be that stinky? It smelled so terrible that the next animal to leave the red carpet and head into the photo cage, a rare Palauan Binturon, took one whiff, smelled Stink Badger stink, and backed out. Sartori said he should have photographed the Stink Badger last, but the little stinker is a pungent prize. There's nobody else coming along to photograph a stink badger. I'm the only one. And that's the case for 90% of the species I photograph. Maybe 95%.

These are things that nobody will ever know existed if it weren't for the photo arc. If they could just see how beautiful this thing is, they would care. Get that other light. Joel cares so much, he spends half the year traveling the world. We saw him work 12-hour days in stifling, humid, 100-degree heat. Okay, let's switch to white.

It was tough for us just watching him build pop-up studios, switching between backdrops of black and white. Why did you decide to use either black or white backgrounds? There are no distractions in these pictures. It's just the animal and you, and that animal's often looking you in the eye. That's when it all works. Here's what happened years ago when Joel tried to photograph a chimp. He spent more than an hour taping up the white

background. So now doesn't this look nice? More than an hour for this. Animals can be frustrating and dangerous, like this fierce Luzon warty pig, found only on a few Philippine islands. Handlers had herded him into a makeshift photo pen. Joel got as close as he dared, lying in a trough usually used for pig waste. The tusks are sharp, the hooves are sharp. Yeah, you know what, I'm concentrating. I got a lot to do. Beyond the tusks and hooves, this pig packs a mean temper. You've heard the expression, when pigs fly, watch.

Like a cow jumping over the moon, except it was a pig. Let's see if I got it. I've never had that happen, ever. He's sharp. You can see him. We're done. That's good. We got our picture. We don't ever need to photograph this species again. All right. Yeah, let's get to here. But then there was Trixie, perhaps the world's sweetest orangutan. We met her not far from the mean-spirited pig at the Avalon Zoo outside Manila. We're just going to let her see the flash. So far, so good.

The key question, would Trixie move in front of the white background? Do you think she would want to stand over there and get a picture? She's amazing. Awesome. Look at that. Oh, sweet girl. It's like a cover girl. If she lays down to look at you, you get down with her. You just lay down on the ground and eye level.

She was completely calm. Later, Sartori showed us his favorite Trixie shots at National Geographic headquarters in Washington. So what do you think she's thinking? I think she was just thinking, you know, is there a banana in this somewhere for me? A mango? Let's go in there and get her on black. Very nice, very nice. I like the one on white better, I think.

It's more direct. It's more like she's involved. She's a partner in the process. Hold, hold. I put my hand out. I wasn't quite sure she was going to take it, but she did. Yeah, it's soft. And it was soft.

Yeah. That was an amazing experience. Yeah. What makes a great picture? Emotion. That's what you look for in any great photograph. What's emotion in an animal? A moment.

We're looking for the eyes. Humans are primates, and we're really, really responsive to eyes. We're all about eye contact. But you shoot them like they're models. We do, like they're going in for their high school senior portrait. Sartori shoots birds intense so they won't fly away. This white-crowned hornbill posed like a preening pro. Completely different from Joel's first attempt to shoot this species back in the States.

Ready? Yeah. So this lady, her name is Jen, not a bashful bird at all. Ow! What she didn't tell me is that bird is such a badass, he attacks her when he goes in to feed him. This is going to be one of those things where I'm back here.

So I said, can you put that bird in my tent? She went, sure I can. This is like a $6,000 camera. Doesn't he know that? Hey, hey, hey, hey! Ow! God, hey. Ow. God. That's my blood right there.

That's why he wanted to shoot a calm hornbill in the Philippines. Very nice bird. Up, up. But here, the red rat snake kept attacking. God, they're real lungy, aren't they? Fortunately, he's not venomous. Since he bit our cameraman, Mark Laganga. Enjoy seeing a 60-minute cameraman get bit instead of me.

But the next snake was extremely venomous. Is that the spitter? Yeah. The Palauan spitting cobra can blind you if it spits in your eye, and it can spit ten feet. Okay. That's why Joel wore goggles. But watch how close he gets to this cobra. I always thought when they had their hood out like that, that that meant danger. Well, he's reacting to us. We're like skyscrapers to this guy. So he's going to stand up and look as big as he can.

They have a space prepped already. In zoos, Sartori can shoot more than 20 species in one day. In the wild, it could take several days to get one good shot. Now, with natural habitats vanishing, some species can only be found in zoos. A lot of them only exist in zoos. They have these captive breeding programs for some of the rarest animals in the world. So when people say, well, they're down on zoos, well, they haven't seen a good zoo and they don't know the conservation effect of good zoos. Sartori spent his first 16 years at National Geographic, taking pictures in the field. He scored numerous magazine covers and endured various hardships.

Yeah, that's me. That's on Alaska's North Slope. I wanted to show the insect load up there, and also, I hadn't made a good picture in three days. And so the editors here will say, Joel, we can't publish your excuses. The mosquitoes, oh, my God. Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, my feet itch for a long time.

He came up with the photo arc idea after his wife developed breast cancer. That's my son Cole and my wife Kathy. She went on chemo for nine months, and I was grounded. I was home for a year. So I was really worried she was not going to make it, but we all made it through. She's fine today. It's been 13 years, which is great. It really does make you appreciate how limited our time is.

So the cancer changed all of your lives. Yeah, and started the photo arc. It was a desperate last-ditch effort to use my life for something that's worthwhile, something that could save nature. In the Bible, the ark saves all the creatures on earth. Yeah. Is that your goal? Giddy up. You bet.

What makes you think you can save them with a photo? We can reach more people now than ever, because we can post to National Geographic Instagram and Facebook and reach over 100 million people and do it again and again and again. His latest pictures are published periodically, and they've appeared on the Empire State Building and the Vatican. Yeah, the site of St. Peter's Basilica. The Pope was sitting there watching, which was awesome.

We flew with Joel to the Philippine island of Negros. Here, vast forests were cut for timber, robbing wildlife of vital habitat. Now there's hardly any lowland forests left, less than 5% here. Negros has its own type of critically endangered warty pig. This mother was saved from a hunter's snare. In the zoo, she's helping to save her species. She's got her babies. You can see that bridal marking on her snout. That's really definitive. Oh yeah, that's beautiful. I think these are going to be on the ground. Joel, who spends so much time away from home,

brought his daughter Ellen on this trip. So what do you think of what he's doing? I think it's extraordinary what you're doing. Really? Oh you make me cry. Don't cry. I've never heard you say that. You do? Yeah. But he is gone all the time. He hasn't been to the last seven of my birthdays just because my birthday is in migration season. So that's a birthday buster, huh? The next day, Sartori showed us a beetle he had spotted. I think he'd be worth putting in the photo art. A species he hadn't shot before. So there's nothing too small for you, huh? Nothing too small.

If you can see it with your eyes, we'll photograph it. How big is this guy? That guy is the size of a grain of rice. Tiny. Yeah, tiny. So every animal fills up your frame. That's right. Small or large.

He's as big as a polar bear. Why do you do that? Because it gives them all equal say, equal voice. The big charismatic mammals get all the ink. They get all the press. The gorillas and the rhinos and the tigers. Nobody's thinking about these little guys. I am.

Sartori shot another little guy, believed to be the very last member of a now extinct species. That's the last Rab's fringe-limb frog. What's that like, knowing that this animal will not exist anymore shortly after you take the picture? Well, does it make me sad? Sure. But does it inspire me to go out and keep working like I do? Absolutely. We put this together in my office. This just shows you

what rodents can look like and what parrots look like. Biodiversity in a glance. Just primates. Wow. And we've done a lot more since then. We can go out farther and farther and farther. Hundreds of species. Thousands of species. Just amphibians. There's so much diversity, but you'd never know it.

You'd never know it. So you've been doing this how long now? Twelve years. How many species have you photographed? 8,255, but who's counting you're about halfway through yeah and you're how old now 55 almost 56 tick tick tick tick tick just as loud as that 60 minutes stopwatch baby time's running out it is but you know at least my life will be spent doing something that's hopefully mattered to the world go behind the scenes of one of tv's most watched true crime series with the 48 hours

post-mortem podcast where correspondents and producers take you inside each case. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours, and then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, every Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.