60 Minutes - 10/26/2025: On the Brink, Dr. Attia Will See You Now, The Mentalist

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi travels to Venezuela as the frosty relationship between Washington and Caracas reaches a boiling point. With U.S. warships off the coast, a $50 million bounty for President Nicolás Maduro’s arrest, and thousands of Venezuelan troops mobilized, 60 MINUTES gets rare access inside a country bracing for conflict. Alfonsi interviews Phil Gunson, a senior analyst for the International Crisis Group, James Story, a former top U.S. diplomat to Venezuela, and Senator Rick Scott (R-FL), about the showdown over drugs, oil, and power has put two nations on the brink. 60 MINUTES profiles Dr. Peter Attia, a Stanford-trained physician and star in the emerging field of longevity medicine who spends a lot of time thinking about the final years of his life, and yours too.  Norah ’Donnell becomes a patient for a day, undergoing his practice's rigorous evaluation and interviews Attia about his methods and innovative approach to longevity – one aimed at helping people live not just longer, but better. Correspondent Cecilia Vega meets Oz Pearlman, the mentalist who has gone viral by astonishing celebrities, billionaires, and even seasoned interviewers with his uncanny ability to read people – not minds. He insists it’s not magic and is now taking some of the secrets of his mind games public, teaching people to think like a mentalist. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Said you hear about Dave? Or even T-time, T-time T-T-time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. Since last month, the U.S. military has been blowing up speedboats in the waters off Venezuela in what it calls a counter-narcotics operation. But the growing military buildup in the region suggests there may be another target. Venezuela's dickens. If I was been through, I'd hit to Russia, China right now.

Because? His days are numbered. Something's going to happen. Tonight, a rare look inside Venezuela. It's not often that 60 Minutes does a story on a physician who has fewer than 75 patients. But Dr. Peter Attia is a star in the growing field of longevity medicine who has attracted millions of followers. and billionaire patients willing to pay six figures to see him. That's a lot of money.

I mean, what do you get for that? A path to help you achieve your goal of living longer and living better. Tonight, we go inside the mind of mentalist O's Perlman, who gets into people's heads by telling them exactly what they are thinking. Why would I tell you that on the air? In June, O's guest Joe Rogan's ATM pincode, leaving the podcaster, befuddled. How'd I do, Joe? Is that your A-Tampin code? Yeah. He looked like he wanted to punch you. I think so.

I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Scott Pelly. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Sharon Alphonsey. I'm John Worthy. I'm Cecilia Vega. I'm Nora O'Donnell. I'm Bill Whitaker. Those stories and in our last minute, viewer mail. Tonight on 60 Minutes. Whether you own a bustling hair salon, a painting company that just landed a big job, or the hottest new bakery in town, you need business insurance that can keep up with your evolving needs. With flexible coverage options from TD Insurance,

you only pay for what you need. Get a quote in minutes from TD Insurance today. TD. Ready for you. Over the past few weeks, the long, frosty relationship between the U.S. and Venezuela reached a boiling point. The United States launched a series of strikes against vessels alleged to be carrying drugs, calling it a counter-narcotics mission.

But the growing military build-up of American forces in the region suggests there may be another target. President Nicholas Maduro, the Venezuelan dictator who's been in America's crosshairs, for years. This summer, the U.S. Justice Department announced a $50 million reward for information leading to Maduro's arrest, accusing him of being a drug kingpin. On Friday, the Trump administration escalated its military campaign, sending the world's largest aircraft carrier to the region. But not much has been seen or heard from people inside Venezuela. Earlier this month, we obtained a rare visa from the Maduro government, packed our bags for cars,

Caracas and found a country on the brink. A patchwork of stacked cinderblock homes cling to the hillsides of Caracas. Instability isn't just an architectural feature in Venezuela. It's a way of life. We saw it at a busy market. There was heated haggling over prices and anxious whispers about the American ships off the coast. Are you afraid of the Americans or are you afraid about speaking about it? See, me, I'm going to be talking about it.

Okay. I understand. One feels nervous and anxious, he said. We don't want anything to happen. This woman chimed in, the Venezuelan people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of its president. Just then, off-camera, a man told her, you can't say that. Who provided you with this space to work? He was wearing a hat with an emblem of the government-civilian military force.

What do you think about what's going on off the coast? It's an abusive tactic from America, he said. We're a sovereign country. F-35 fighter jets, eight U.S. warships, and an estimated 10,000 U.S. troops are now in the Caribbean with more on the way. Does it feel like something's about to happen? Yes, she said, it feels very, very heavy. The weight of uncertainty and the rumble of armored vehicles can be felt throughout the country.

An estimated 125,000 members of Venezuela's military have mobilized. While we were there, the government was holding emergency drills and urging civilians to prepare for combat. It's all a bit of theater and a response to this. Since September, the U.S. military has blown up at least ten vessels, killing more than three dozen alleged drug smugglers, most of them off the coast of Venezuela. What I can say is that I've used this phrase before. This is like cooking an egg with a blowtorch.

F-35s, Arlie Burke class destroyers, submarines aren't normally what we need to go after small boats, fishing boats. Ambassador James Story was the last American diplomat at the now-closed U.S. Embassy in Venezuela. He says the show of U.S. force is likely intended to oust Nicholas Maduro, Venezuela's dictator. This is a very bad actor sitting on top of the world's largest known reserves of oil, plus the critical minerals that will fuel the 21st century economy, and he's in bed with our strategic competitors. And how has he been able to cling to power for as long as he has? I mean, let's be very clear.

This is a criminal organization masquerading as a government. This is an individual who is under indictment for narcotics trafficking, commits human rights violations, someone who has used the apparatus of the state to throw people in jail, to torture them, to kill them. In January, the Trump administration briefly engaged with Maduro's government, negotiating a deal for the release of six U.S. prisoners arrested while visiting the country. and for the resumption of flights carrying Venezuelans deported from the United States back to their country. But in August, the olive branch snapped. Today, the Department of Justice...

U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi announced that staggering reward for Maduro's arrest, $50 million. Which is why we were stunned when after months of negotiations, Maduro agreed to do an interview with us. Maduro's ministers chose the time and place. the ballroom of a busy hotel in Caracas. But minutes before the interview was finally set to begin, it was called off. We were told the president's minister of defense and head of intelligence said it was no longer safe to do the interview. Maduro has been defiant for months, despite the bounty on his head, openly challenging the U.S. and its accusations against him in front of crowds of supporters.

After he bagged our interview, we thought perhaps he was packing his bags. So we just hopped into a taxi cab in Caracas because we were told that President Maduro has just appeared at a rally in central Caracas for an indigenous People's Day event, which is apparently being held on the middle of a highway, and he is surrounded by hundreds of people. This is two days after he canceled his interview with us. Maduro urged the crowd to defend the Republic, but privately he was making concessions. Last week, President Trump confirmed reports that President Maduro offered the U.S. a stake in the country's oil to avoid conflict. He has offered everything.

He's offered everything. You're right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to f*** around with the United States. Maduro has repeatedly called U.S. accusations that he oversees a narco state, quote, disinformation. Most fentanyl is produced in Mexico or China, and according to the DEA, Venezuela is not a major producer of cocaine either, but it is a transit route for it. On Thursday, Maduro appealed for peace in English.

Not war, not war, not war, not war, just peace, just peace, just peace. As a gesture of goodwill, Venezuela is still accepting planes full of deportees from the U.S. Maduro frames their return as a triumph, repatriating Venezuelans from harsh conditions in U.S. detention. But most of the deportees we saw told us they felt defeated. We were with this four-year-old girl as she was escorted off a plane by a government minister. And how long have they been apart? Four months.

Four months. And taken into a room where a crush of state TV and her family were waiting. Republican Senator Rick Scott, Rick Scott of Florida, says Maduro should hop on a one-way flight himself. If I was Maduro, I'd head to Russia or China right now. Because? His days are numbered. Something's going to happen.

Whether it's internal or external, I think something's going to happen. The firepower that's off the coast, right? This is an armada. This is a lot of U.S. forces. Are we about to invade Venezuela? I don't think so. I mean, if we do, I'd be surprised. Earlier this month, President Trump announced he approved covert

CIA operations inside Venezuela. What do you think removing Maduro would signal to other socialist regimes in the area? It'll be the end of Cuba. Cuba relies on subsidized Venezuelan oil to prop up its economy. America is going to take care of the southern hemisphere, and we're going to make sure that there's freedom and democracy. Freedom isn't the only thing in short supply in Venezuela. Hunger, chronic blackouts and a scarcity of essential medicines plagued the country.

Today, more than 70% of residents live in poverty. It is a stunning reversal of fortune for a nation that was once one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Venezuela's economy was crippled by disastrous socialist policies and mismanagement. A crisis exacerbated by 20 years of U.S. sanctions imposed in direct response to the regime's anti-democratic actions, human rights violations, and corruption. That triggered triple-digit inflation and humanitarian crisis. Back at the market in Caracas, this woman said the $50 a week that she earns isn't enough to feed her family and courageously answered this question.

What do you think would happen if President Maduro was removed from office? Venezuela would change, she said. We would all be free. She told us she has plans to move to Spain in a few months. Nearly 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country in the last decade, roughly one-fifth of its population. Most of those who remained hoped last year's presidential election would be a turning point. But even after tally showed the opposition won nearly 70% of the vote, Maduro refused to leave, stealing the presidency.

Move, move, move. No, move. Protests were met with brutal crackdowns, which the UN says included jailing, torturing, and even murder. We met Phil Gunson and Caracas. He's lived in Venezuela for 26 years and is a senior analyst at the International Crisis Group, a non-governmental organization. Gunson is a rarity in Venezuela, an expert willing to speak openly about the government and Maduro's odds of surviving the current crisis. The asking price is Maduro's head. I mean, he has to go.

And he's still going out to events in front of big crowds? Why is he not in a bunker? I think because the crowds are the defense. That's my suspicion. Once or twice lately, he's done something quite unusual, which is to hold his events in hotels. You know, the U.S. isn't going to kill him in a hotel, obviously. Gunson says, even if Maduro steps aside,

Inside, the transition to democracy would be bumpy at best. Maria Karina Machado, the opposition leader who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize, has been in hiding for months, but has said she has a plan. There are reports to the opposition says they have this 100-hour plan with the Trump administration for a peaceful transition. Is there any guarantee that the transition will be peaceful? There's no guarantee at all. And in fact, one of the things that worries me most is that there's been no apparent negotiation with a key element in all of this story, which is the Venezuelan Armed Forces. If Venezuela Armed Forces don't go along with this, and by the armed forces, I really mean the High Command, the people who give the orders, then there's a possibility perhaps the armed forces might split. There's a possibility they might oppose a new government coming in.

He says well-armed Colombian guerrilla groups that Maduro allows to operate. in Venezuela might also resist a change in power. Is there a scenario that the U.S. has to put boots on the ground to keep order? I can't see a scenario in which they wouldn't have to put boots on the ground. I mean, if the U.S. is responsible, it's the kind of the Pottery Baran principle, isn't it? If you break it, you own it. You have to protect the government that you just put in power. And that means, I think, thousands of troops.

But Senator Rick Scott doesn't think it will get to that point. If it all goes to hell, is the U.S. willing to to put boots on the ground in Venezuela? Well, I think the American public is tired of forever wars right now, so I think it's very difficult for us to make a commitment that we're gonna do something like that. But I do believe that internationally there would be troops that would go in if they needed to.

In Washington, lawmakers are debating the legality of the U.S. military action. Some say the strikes amount to extrajudicial killings, The Trump administration insists they are lawful and self-defense. At the same time, Admiral Alvin Halsey, the head of U.S. Southern Command and the officer in charge of all Caribbean activity, suddenly announced his retirement, two years ahead of schedule, offering no public explanation and raising more questions about the Trump administration's plan. If the administration were to turn around all those warships and said, okay, we've done everything we need to do here, what would that mean for President would. It would be an enormous political triumph for Maduro because he'd be able to say forever afterwards, you know, I stood up to the U.S., I stood up to the empire, as they call it, and the empire retreated.

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs, with personalized workout plans, real-time insights. and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-draining treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. Dr. Peter Attia spends a lot of time thinking about the last years of his life and yours too.

He's declared war on what he calls the marginal decade, the final years of life that are are plagued by sickness and immobility. It's not often that 60 Minutes does a story on a physician who has fewer than 75 patients, but the Stanford-trained Attia has become both a pioneer and a star in the growing field of longevity medicine. His stark diagnosis and advice on what to do about it have attracted millions of followers, and billionaire patients who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to hear the words, Dr. Atea will see you now. At 75, both men and women fall off a cliff. At 75.

At the population level, it's unmistakable what happens at the age of 75. That's what we're up against. That's what I'm thinking about in the practice, is how do I create an escape velocity that gets somebody another 15 years there? And so is your goal to minimize or essentially erase that marginal decade? The marginal decade's not going anywhere. We will all have a final decade of life. My goal is to make the marginal decade as enjoyable as possible.

The way I explain it to my patience is that last 10 to 15 of your years, if you don't do anything about it, you will fall to a level of about 50% of your total capacity, cognitively, physically. And when people hear that, you're like, I don't want to be that. That's right. That's not how I want to spend the last decade of my life. A lot of people respond that way as though they're hearing this for the first time. Although if you ask them, haven't you seen people in this state, they'll say, well, yeah, I guess I have. Right.

Likely their own relatives. Sure, their own parents even. So do you consider yourself a new kind of doctor? No, I don't think so. What we're doing is creating a framework that fits directly into this idea of how to train for the marginal decade. That training begins here in Austin, Texas, where Atia is based. This is where his patients go through two days of physical evaluation, and where we found, after just a few hours,

how intense the 52-year-old doctor and his methods are. Just show me what you got. Just show me what you got. I think this is the neglected part of medical testing, is how fit are you, how strong are you, how well do you move. And up overhead. And in many ways, these tests are even more predictive of how long you're going to live than what I might get out of your blood work. How do we know that?

The data are pretty clear. When you look at things like cardiorespiratory fitness, when you look at muscle mass, when you look at strength, they have a much higher association than things like even cholesterol and blood pressure. Dr. Atia and his team say the key indicator of overall health and longevity. Starting to roll now. V-O-2 in the mid-20s. Is a test called V-O-2 max. Everything you got, everything you got.

It sounds like the name of a sports car. But essentially it's a measurement of the size of someone's engine. Really good maximal test here. And their capacity to use oxygen to generate power with their muscles, heart, and lungs. There you go. That's the hardest part of your day done. Even though you say I scored fairly well on my VO2 max. There we go.

42.1. Okay, that's good. You say I'm still not good enough for Dr. Peter Attia. Yes. Your VO2 max was going to place you at the 85th percentile for women your age. And I think it's worth taking a victory lap. But tomorrow we should come back and plan on what we're going to do. You think anyone, whether they're 45 or 65, should be training like athletes,

not for the Olympics, but essentially for advanced age. Absolutely. Life is a sport. Dr. Atea says the best drug to delay physical and cognitive decline is exercise, and he takes it in large doses. He aims for about 10 hours a week, cardio to burn fat, intense intervals for VO2 max, and weightlifting to maintain strength and muscle mass. He developed his program after turning his back on the medical establishment nearly 20 years ago, while training to be a cancer. cancer surgeon at Johns Hopkins, he got burnt out, caring for so many terminal patients. He quit his residency and became a management consultant.

After becoming a father and discovering he was at risk of developing diabetes, he made big changes, personally and professionally. After my daughter was born, all I could think about was, oh my God, like, I want to have as much time as possible on this planet with this baby. That's when he decided to become his own first patient in a new specialty, longevity medicine. Today, he considers himself neither a primary care physician nor a provider of concierge care. We could quantify how that lowers your risk of cancer or heart disease. What Dr. Atia is prescribing is a radical change in how Americans think about their own health care,

driven by the patient focused on prevention, a practice he calls, Medicine 3.0. We're dying of heart disease. We're dying from stroke, cancer, dementia, type 2 diabetes. And we, I think, have sort of come to realize that, hey, the playbook of Medicine 2.0, which is treat a disease when a disease is present, doesn't seem to work as well. And so the first principle of medicine 3.0 is you have to take a much longer arc on the prevention of chronic disease. That means using existing diagnostic tools in novel ways. I'm going to have you way down with your head facing that way, feet facing this way for me. Like the Dexas scan, the Czech's bone density, as well as muscle mass and body fat. It typically costs

under $300, and Atea says it's, quote, almost criminal negligence. Most women don't get one until they're 65. Another scan he employs is more costly and not covered by insurance. There are certain things that you recommend that are controversial, like regular, preventive, full-body MRIs. Early detection matters. The earlier you can treat a cancer, the smaller the burden of the tumor at the time of treatment, the greater your odds of success. Now, let's talk about the flip side of that, because it is going to detect a lot of things that are not cancer. That means you have a lot of false positives. If you're not willing to go through that experience, as traumatic as it is, you should not engage in this level of screening.

Do you get them? I do. He also suggests patients get tested for the APO-E gene, related to risk for Alzheimer's. In 2019, Dr. Attea oversaw genetic testing for actor Chris Hemsworth, who learned he was 8 to 10 times more likely to develop Alzheimer's than the average person. In total, Dr. Atia sees fewer than 75 patients, and there's a long waiting list. And how much does it cost? It is a six-figure program. Like 100,000 or 500,000 or 800,000?

Because it's a big range. Much closer to 100,000 than 500,000. That's a lot of money. I mean, what do you get for that? You don't live forever. Nope. You're getting access to me, a team of a couple other physicians, strength and conditioning team, a nutrition team.

And what you're really getting is a path to help you achieve your goal of living longer and living better. Welcome, Dr. Peter Attia. The pitch has proved extremely popular. This is kind of a turning point. His book, Outlive, part memoir, part medical manifesto, has sold nearly 3 million copies and made him a top draw at longevity medicine events.

like this one. When you give women information about how their bodies work, they make great decisions for themselves. And his podcast that's been downloaded over 100 million times tackles a wide range of topics, including menopause and nutrition. Let's talk about protein. Dr. Atia wants his patients to eat a lot of protein,

more than double what the current nutritional guidelines recommend. The doctor and a handful of his patients have also taken a drug called rapamycin that's FDA approved for use by transplant recipients. The drug has extended the lifespan of mice, but Dr. Atia stopped taking it for now because it gave him mouse sores, which can be a side effect. There are physicians, including a respected professor of public health we spoke to, who are skeptical that his extraordinary regimen will result in an extradition. decade of healthy life.

When a fellow physician calls some of what you're talking about, hocus, pocus. People are entitled to think what they want. And just because someone as a physician doesn't mean they're even remotely equipped to evaluate the merits of exercise physiology. Remember, I went to Stanford Medical School, right? How many hours of education do you think I received on exercise? Probably a few hours? Zero hours.

And how many hours did I receive on nutrition? Zero hours. years ago, so maybe things have changed, but I'm pretty sure that if you're talking to other esteemed physicians, they're in the same bucket as me. So, you know, they might not be the ones that are best equipped to be my critics. Our last morning in Austin, Dr. Atia took us for a ruck, a hike with weighted backpacks. This, to me, is as much about mental health and socialization, being in nature, and rucking is simply a vehicle to get that. How much work do you do on your emotional and mental health?

A lot. I mean, it's as much a practice as what I put into exercise or, you know, blood work and cancer screening and all the other things that make up physical health. Atia has been open about dealing with depression and anger stemming from abuse he suffered as a child. Through therapy, including two stays

at inpatient care facilities, he says he turned a corner about five years ago. By working hard on our physical health, we can reduce the rate of decline. But if we're being deliberate and active on our emotional health, it can actually improve. He says progress was only possible because his wife of more than 20 years, Jill, stood by him. There is plenty of data on longevity and people living long long that have very strong relationships. Yes. Just like the exercise data, I don't think this is just a correlation.

I really think that there is also some causality that flows from the end of having great relationships to living a longer life. What's the point of living long if you don't have people to share it with? What's the purpose of living longer if you're unhappy? Dr. Atia plans on launching a new digital health app next year. He says that 80% of his program does not require a physician and is adamant. It's never too late to begin delaying the inevitable. How long do you want to live? You know, I want to live to be old enough to have a meaningful relationship with as many as my grandkids as I can.

That probably means making it into my 90s. Because you must be plotting that with your V-O-2 max. Yeah, you know, it's funny. do an exercise with our patients, which is called the timeline exercise. So if we were doing this for you, we would draw, you know, we would draw a line for Nora. So you're 51. Yeah. And then I would draw a tick at 61, 71, 71, 81, 101. And then we would draw all three of your kids. And then we would start to extrapolate, when do you think they're going to have kids? And so you're going to draw their first grandkids. And we're going to map your life out according to this timeline.

And you're going to see pretty quickly what it's all about. That really kind of puts it in great perspective for me. So yes, I've mapped my life out in that regard, and I know that the difference between being 80 and 90 is huge in terms of what I can have with those kids. With AMX Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply.

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but I guard the Summer Fridays and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. I'm just the most ensembles of Catero de facto. The most ensembles, rare beauty, way, Cifora collection, and other part of vite. Aukure you these formats, standard and mini, regrouped for a better quality of price. In line on Sifora.p.ca or in a magazine. A good magician can ask you to pick a card, any card,

and they'll tell you what you're holding in your hand. But a mentalist will ask you to picture any card from an imaginary deck and tell you which card is in your mind. Right now, the mentalist on people's minds, and going viral for it, is a 43-year-old father of five. named O'S Perlman. O's insists he does not have supernatural powers.

He reads people. He reads them so well that when we met him this past spring, his head games had me jumping out of the chair mid-interview and mystified celebrities, billionaires, and athletes. And now, please welcome to the stage, mentalist and mind-reader, Ose Perlman. The Robin Hood Foundation gala draws the kind of crowd

that ponies up $72 million at one dinner with athletes like NFL quarterback Russell Wilson in attendance. The question for you is, when I was young, I had a poster on my wall of someone, and you're no way in hell you're going to get this. He said no way in hell. I didn't say those words. He said those words. No way. Which means there's no way. It was a football player. Also, notice the nervous twitching with the hands.

Hands here, hands here, always a female. Is it a female? Yeah, it is, yeah, it is. O's Perlman went to work on him. I don't read minds, I read people. Here's what I want you to do. Russell, count the number of letters in the first name just to yourself, not out loud, just to yourself.

There's the tell, right? You call an audible. He finished counting and he looked up. Six letters, isn't it? It is six letters. Yeah. Russell, you're sitting there. Sixth grade. You're looking up.

She's looking back at you. She was. Tell us all. Who was in that poster? Say it. Shania Twain. Shania Twain! There's no way. There's no way. You'd think a room full of millionaires,

including Tech Titan, Alexis O'Hanian, might be hard to pull one over on. Turn around. Warlock. Everybody! I mean, what? No, no. Bro.

No. You're a wizard. Come, man. But O's says this is his perfect audience. People that are very intelligent are much easier because their mind is regimented in a certain way. Like I perform for Nobel laureates. You go, this is one of the most intelligent people on the planet. I go, hook line and sinker, let's go.

This is going to be a cakewalk. Seriously? Yeah, because they think a certain world. way is so much easier to fool. O's is the first to admit his act is based on one big lie. The lie is that I can read your mind. You're sitting here today telling me you're not mind reading. That's correct.

And it's funny because some people, even though I go to great extremes to tell people that I am not a psychic or supernatural, I have people that come up to me after shows, who are at the highest level where I can't say names because I don't want to embarrass people. Oh, say names. Of like CEOs of major Fortune 100 companies who have called me and say, Can you help me on negotiating a deal soon? So you're going to tell me how you do this? I'm not going to tell you.

That doesn't do well for my job security. But he does drop hints. O's says he studies body language to read what's going on in someone's mind. I can always see it when someone's eyes shift. Also, the lingering hands in pockets always indicator of another guy. Guy to guy interaction. Is it a guy? Of course it is.

I'm getting you to make very specific choices. In my show, I guess a lot of things such as numbers, such as words, such as names, things that have seemingly an infinite amount of possibilities, but do they? No. I've figured out how to kind of take a piece of information that seems too impossible. I can build up in a big way and create a lot more of a limited subset than you think. Is it deception? When I perform, I explain to people what I'm doing. I like to leave breadcrumbs along the way. If you feel like you know a little bit, then you're hooked. Now you're intrigued. It keeps getting in your brain. It cycles over and over. It drives you crazy for a few weeks. weeks or months, and you tell other people. And that's my goal, right? I think the first number of your code's at one, isn't it? Your real pincode.

My ATM pincode? Why would I tell you that on the air? In June, O's guest Joe Rogan's ATM pincode, leaving the podcaster befuddled. How'd I do, Joe? Is that your ATM pin code? Yeah. He looked like he wanted to punch you. I think so. I'm skeptical because I've got that pin code in the mail.

He's calling his bank right now and be like, yo, do you know this? Has this guy been playing the long game? Yeah, I don't like that. O's says it's skepticism from the audience that is key to making his act work. I'm sure you've gone online and seen some of the community of critics out there

who have accused you of wearing a fake thumb to be able to secretly write something. Sure. To go so far as to have someone on your team follow someone like a Joe Rogan around so that you could secretly see his ATM code before you sat down face-to-face. I love that.

How about you give me a yes or no that's actually not true or false, first of all? I can't answer every single one, but man, if you think that I follow Joe Rogan around to get his ATM pin code, I love that answer. But no, I did not follow Joe Rogan around. If you have these theories, that means I'm in your brain. I'm taking up real estate in your mind

and you're thinking about it. Name either hearts, just say hearts or diamonds. The real estate empire, he's been. built up in his audience's mind is the result of thousands of hours of repetition in front of a mirror and more than 30 years of an obsession with his craft.

Trust me. The Pearlman family emigrated from Israel and moved to Michigan. At 13 O's parents took him on a cruise ship vacation. I had never seen a magician in person. I was brought on stage. He'd performed this trick with me as the person and I was

blown away. Back on land, he checked out every magic book he could find and got a part-time job so he could buy every trick in the neighborhood magic shop. Turn it over. That's the only card in the deck. As his audience grew, O's dropped the card tricks and turned to the mind games of mentalism. What you're doing is not magic.

So I would describe it as a subset of magic. I do magic of the mind. I no longer need to... See, when I look there, you look there? That's the number one thing you learn in magic. misdirection. When you make an elephant appear or disappear, the elephant was always there. The elephant didn't really vanish into thin air. We all know that. I made you look in the place I want you to look by using skills. When you take magic to a higher and higher level, you start to get rid of all the

props. You said, I like putting words in people's heads. Yep. How do you do that? How you're going to think is shockingly under my control. It's almost like the way a puppet gets moved around. Certain moments where you're right now about change your mind and I move you in another direction, you don't realize that you're about to do something, but that your mind works in a certain way. I know you said your goal is to not creep people out, but I've got to tell you what you just said is pretty creepy under my control, like a puppet. Sure. The moment I lose control is the moment the trick falls apart. The tricks have fallen apart in front of very large audiences. The magic is in Oase's ability

to pivot in the moment, keep from panicking, and make us all think he pulled it off. O's wanted weatherman Al Roker to pick a celebrity who would run for president in 2016. He wanted him to say Taylor Swift. The trick failed. This is O's recovering in real time. Who is that celebrity of in mind? Who's running? Shock us.

George Clooney. Anybody else? Any women? Taylor Swift. Okay. I like it. We're going instead of Hillary. You know.

I have a... a prediction I just thought of. I just want to show you, I planned ahead the campaign slogan, Taylor Swift for president. And so in that moment, it's hyper-focused of saying to him, and what if it could be anybody else? And so I was steering him back on track to what I thought would work. And so it looked even more amazing because it seemed like he changed his mind at the last moment. So it worked. Thank God.

He's now growing a new fan base, performing for NFL and college football team. Point, and show me where you felt me touch you. How many times did you feel me touch you? Twice. The clips have gone viral. Sequin, give him a hand for help me out. And the league's top coaches are calling on O's to help teams bond off the field. Tell us all out of the whole grocery store.

You're walking up and down the aisle. You pick anything? What did you pick up and buy? Tell us. Eminem's. You know what, take one? So how much? So how much preparation goes into a gig like this?

Last whole year. Since the last season ended, I have been ideating, formulating, thinking, what am I going to do this time? In August, we went with him to the Los Angeles Rams practice facility. Who was it? Devin Withers, in Seattle. Don't ever doubt me again, Rand. For over an hour, O's did half a dozen tricks,

including an old favorite, the ATM PIN code. This time he had Safety Camp Curl play mind reader on Coach Sean McVeigh. Suddenly a voice will enter into your mind and start to tell you coach's pincode. Do you believe this? Yeah. No, I don't know.

Never say yes to voices in the head. Never say that. So I want you to look right at him. Look right at him. Cam, see you into his eyes. And one digit at a time, tell coach what is his ATM pincode? Five, eight, three, one. One.

There's got to be something really gratifying for you to be able to get a 300-pound grown man to freak out on camera. I love it. It's this feeling of wonder that you, not only do not know how it's done, but it's the feeling it gives you, right? It's like certain movies give me goosebumps, and you don't get that off. in. I think the number one factor in success. O's says he makes most of his money from private corporate events. His next public move is to offer up lessons with a new take on the classic self-help book, how to win friends and influence people, offering advice on how to use mentalism in everyday life.

My book is not about teaching you to be a mentalist because there's books about that. And so I want to teach people not to be a mentalist, but how to think like a mentalist. We'd studied O's and his tricks, and we're skeptical he'd be able to pull one over on us. Then, at the end of our interview, he asked me to name a place I've always wanted to go, but have never been. Tell us the place. Tell us the place you thought of. What would you said? I want to go there. I can't wait to say it. Vietnam. Vietnam. And you were about to say somewhere different. That was the key. You were about to change your mind. Say the other place you were thinking of. Thailand was the other one you were going to go with. Come on. How did you get that?

Of all the countries in the world, did you, like, hack my phone? I've hacked your brain. What the heck? For the grand finale, he asked me to come up with a question impossible for him to know the answer. Ask me the question. Who was my third grade teacher who had a paddle above the classroom door? This is not written down, this is not posted, this is nowhere but in your brain, this question. Correct?

Zero. You know what? You're not going to tell the truth. You're going to lie. I'm not going to lie. No, no. I want you to. I want you to. I want you to. I want you to do a lie instead. Do the lie instead of the truth. I did. I thought of my high school teacher rather than my third grade teacher to try to stump him. Say it, what is it? Flannery. Sister Flannery. Okay, now you're freaking me out.

minute of 60 Minutes. In the mail, viewers commented on our interview with the businessmen who negotiated the ceasefire in Gaza. Steve Whitkoff and Jared Kushner have had financial interests in the Middle East. You carefully tipped your hat to the Middle East peace deal with the interview of Whitkoff and Kushner, carefully highlighting their efforts, but not shying away from conflict of interest questions. There were also notes about Erez Ruvani.

He's a fired Department of Justice lawyer who told us a top DOJ official suggested ignoring court orders that blocked deportations. Maybe 60 Minutes could suggest to the Nobel Prize Committee that they create a prize for truth-telling and integrity. Mr. Ruvani definitely qualifies. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60. minutes.

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