60 Minutes - 12/4/2022: The French President, Return to Gorongosa, The South Dakota Kid

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

French President Emmanuel Macron tells Bill Whitaker about his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, President Joe Biden, and the challenges facing his own country. A devastating cyclone and a civil war stood in the way of entrepreneur Greg Carr’s effort to save Gorongosa National Park in Africa. “It just makes you more determined,” he said. Scott Pelley reports. When I won my first U.S. Open I had everything off. I was focused.” Born deaf, professional pool player Shane Van Boening turned off his hearing aids during one of the most pivotal moments of his career. Jon Wertheim reports. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you so much. And in Washington, during an important state visit, about the most pressing issues facing America and its most historic ally. You have said that attacking civilian infrastructures is a war crime. This is a war crime. This is a war crime. Just come and sit at a sunset by the lake in the center of this national park. I mean, time stops. And you get a hundred colors of yellow

and a hundred colors of orange, and then the desk sets in. Oh, there's an elephant right there. Is there? Well, there certainly is. I just have to stop and say hello to the elephant. Shame I'm boning. How do we know the South Dakota kid is the greatest pool player in the world? Just go right down the middle?

Yep, right down the middle. He showed us how to do this. Oh! You got that. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Sharon Alfonsi.

I'm John Wertheim. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories and more tonight on 60 Minutes. Hi there, I'm Ryan Reynolds, and I have a list of things I like to have on set. It's just little things like two freshly cracked eggs, scrambled with crispy hash brown, sausage crumble, and creamy chipotle sauce from Tim Hortons.

From my rider to Tim's menu, try my new scrambled eggs loaded breakfast box. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale expertise and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. France is America's first and oldest ally, offering crucial support, both financial and military, during our revolution. During the 20th century, Americans fought and died on French soil in both world wars. And now, once again, the old allies find themselves in a dynamic and dangerous moment with yet another war being fought in Europe. This time, the French president is Emmanuel Macron, the youngest ever, who is striving to enhance France's role in the world while navigating divisions at home and relations

with the U.S. strained by energy, trade, and defense issues. We spoke with him Thursday at Blair House during his state visit to Washington with President Joe Biden. Earlier in the week, we met the French president in Paris at the Élysée Palace. We met President Emmanuel Macron as he was preparing for his second state visit to Washington, D.C., his first with President Joe Biden. The setting could not have been grander. And here is my office. French presidents have run affairs of state from the Élysée Palace since Napoleon III in 1848. This room, the Golden Salon, was a favorite of Napoleon III and

his wife, Eugenie. You can see the E and N is for Eugenie and Napoleon. How about that? Today, it's the French equivalent of the Oval Office. And since the goal, the office of the French president is here. And this is where I work. This is magnificent. And by the way, this is something I got from my first state visit. This key is the key... To the Bastille. To the Bastille. And it was brought by Lafayette.

To the Americans. To George Washington. As you know, because Lafayette was very much involved in the American Revolution. And the original is in the American Revolution. And the original is in the U.S., by the way. This is just a copy for me. Emmanuel Macron is very much an original,

a centrist determined to shake up the status quo. Seven months into his second term, he has survived massive street protests over high costs and taxes, fought off tough electoral challenges from the right and the left, yet exudes an air of youthful optimism. At 44, you are the senior leader of Europe. Is that a comfortable fit? Yes, because you can have both experience and energy. Since February, much of his energy has been focused on the war in Ukraine.

From the U.S., it can feel a world away. From Macron's vantage point, it's a wildfire in the neighborhood. Russia decided 24th February this year to launch this war. I think they made a huge, a huge mistake. The first one was not to respect international law and to breach all the principles they did sign. And this is a killer for their credibility. And second, because probably they made a lot of mistakes in terms of assessment of their own capacities and the Ukrainian capacities. And now what happens since, let's say, September, they decided to bomb a lot of civilian infrastructures.

And their perspective is to disperse Ukrainian people and to make their life impossible during this winter time. You have said that attacking civilian infrastructures is a war crime. This is a war crime. President Macron had hoped to prevent all of this with his own shuttle diplomacy this past winter, flying to Moscow to meet one-on-one with President Vladimir Putin. And it seemed that you thought you could talk him out of this. Indeed, this is true. I thought that it was feasible to avoid the war at that time.

Still, Emmanuel Macron has been determined to keep an open dialogue with President Putin. I always maintain regular discussions and direct contact with President Putin because I believe that the best way

to re-engage is to preserve this direct channel. Isolation is the worst thing, especially for a leader like him. Isolation. Isolation is the worst thing, especially for a leader like him. Isolation. Isolation. Already, the war has caused food and energy prices to skyrocket. How long can the open-ended

Western support of Ukraine go on? I think it's extremely important that all of us, meaning European, American, and the maximum number of countries in this world do support Ukraine. It's clear that Russia, and especially President Putin, decided to weaponize at least energy and food. Creating a lot of shortages, volatility and inflation. And I think his bet is a war fatigue and a sanction fatigue. So how does this end? I think it's important to convey the message that this is the Ukrainians to decide that. The only way to find a solution would be through negotiations.

I don't see a military option on the ground. The French president approaches diplomacy and politics with a cool logic, yet often generates heat. On the eve of his trip to Washington, he told us he'd be direct with President Biden, like he was when they met early in Mr. Biden's presidency. Mr. Biden said that at his first G7 meeting as president, that he walked into the room and said, the United States is back. And that you said, but for how long? Do you doubt that the United States is a consistent and reliable ally? If I look at the 20th century, I have absolutely no reason had big impact on climate change, on Iran, on some other issues.

You mean the Trump administration? I do. So my point is just, I want us to be allies. I want us to be friends. I want us to be partners. I want to engage with the U.S., but I don't want to be dependent. And I think this is very important because just imagine on your side, would you accept as U.S. citizen to say, my security, my future will depend on an election in France? No. I cannot imagine.

You think there needs to be a re-sync of relations. How have relations been out of sync? I think this administration and President Biden personally is very much attached to Europe. But when you look at the situation today, there is indeed a desynchronization. Why? Energy. Europe is a gas and oil buyer, the US is a producer. And when you look at the situation, our industries and our households are not buying at the same price. So there is a big gap impacting purchasing power and competitiveness of our societies. With Russian natural gas drastically cut, Europe is buying more from the U.S., but at a price as much as six times what Americans pay.

This at a time when inflation and unemployment in France are hovering around 7%. You have said that's not how friends behave. Yeah. We are very much engaged together in this war for the same principles. But the cost of this war is not the same

on both sides of the Atlantic. And you should be very aware of that. It's now law. President Macron also points to the Inflation Reduction Act, or IRA, new legislation designed to grow green jobs in the U.S. with subsidies and tax credits for electric cars and clean energy manufacturing in North America. But they are, at this very moment of the war, a killer for our industry.

A killer for your industry? For sure. The U.S. decided two and a half months ago to subsidize much more big new green projects, which means for battery, for hydrogen, for a lot of things. The level of subsidies is now two to three times higher in the US than in Europe. We are totally aligned in this conflict. We work hard. And I think if the day after the conflict,

the result is to have a weaker Europe, because a lot of its industry will have been just killed, I do believe it's not the interest of the US administration and even the US society. I think the main interest is obviously to protect your middle classes, which is a very fair one. I do the same for my country.

And it's to be competitive vis-à-vis China. But the result of the recent decision and this momentum, I would say, is it's bad for Europe. President Macron brought those concerns to the White House this past Thursday. After the pomp and pageantry, the two presidents retired to the Oval Office and Cabinet Room, discussed the problems of the world for two hours, and emerged unified. France is one of our strongest partners. We share the same values and address all challenges

together. After meeting with members of Congress and a half hour before racing off to the state dinner, President Macron talked with us at Blair House, the presidential guest house. As we were talking in Paris, you're a man who likes to be direct and look someone in the eye. So you're sitting across from President Biden. What did you tell him about the challenges the Inflation Reduction Act is inflicting on your country and your people? We had a very good and frank and fruitful discussion. President Biden's intention is to make his country stronger, to create jobs here, to re-industrialize, and at the same time to address climate change issues and to build more green industry in your country.

I do share this objective. I do respect this objective. And guess what? I have exactly the same for my country. It sounded in the press conference like the two of you agreed to disagree or to at least keep talking. What we say in the United States

is it sounded like the two of you decided to kick the can down the road. No, I don't think so, honestly speaking. It's not an agreement to disagree. This is a strategic agreement. And I think we do share now much more in depth our strategy on both sides. But you told us in Paris that the Inflation Reduction Act is an industry killer, a job killer.

For Europe. For Europe. And with unemployment and inflation in France hovering around 7%, it seems like this is urgent to get a resolution. I confirm. This is why I can tell you that what we decided with President Biden is precisely to fix this issue. And they are fixable. What can be fixed? He said he could think of some tweaks.

Yeah. Some tweaks. Is that enough? My point is to say it was urgent to raise this issue. I did it. It was urgent to discuss in depth about it. We did it this morning together. It's urgent to fix it. We can do it. You are the senior politician in Europe right now. So when you go back to Europe, what do you tell your European partners? Was this state visit a success? Yes, definitely. Number one, because we did confirm our total alignment on the Ukrainian situation. Second, we had a very fruitful and in-depth discussion

on this context, IRA, and the side effects. And we will fix it on the short run. Third, we had a lot of convergence on climate change, health, security in Africa, and a lot of projects. So for me, this is a very good state visit with a lot of very positive outcomes. I can tell you. Sometimes historic events suck.

But what shouldn't suck is learning about history. I do that through storytelling. History That Doesn't Suck is a chart-topping history-telling podcast, chronicling the epic story of America, decade by decade. Right now, I'm digging into the history of incredible infrastructure projects of the 1930s by decade. Right now, I'm digging into the history of incredible

infrastructure projects of the 1930s, including the Hoover Dam, the Empire State Building, the Golden Gate Bridge, and more. The promise is in the title, History That Doesn't Suck, available on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Mozambique's Gorongosa National Park was the envy of Africa. Wildlife drew tourists from around the world. But beginning in the 1960s, a man-made catastrophe slaughtered the animals until it was said there was nothing left but mosquitoes and landmines. In 2008, we followed an American entrepreneur who dreamed of returning a wasteland to greatness. Now, 14 years later, Greg Carr has something to show the world.

And we couldn't resist a return to Gorongosa when Carr sends invitations like this. Just come and sit at a sunset by the lake in the center of this national park. I mean, time stops. And you get a hundred colors of yellow and a hundred colors of orange, and then the dusk sets in. And then a flock of birds go over the water, and there's a hippo over there making a noise. And there's an impala over there. And, you know, it's like, well, I could have been here 100,000 years ago, and it might have been the same. Greg Carr's wonder is almost like disbelief. A million acres of Africa reborn.

When I first came here in 2004, I could drive around with my Mozambican friends all day long. And if we were lucky, maybe we'd see one baboon or one warthog or something. Now we drive around and it's an ocean of wildlife. Come around the corner, there's a herd of elephants. You know, go the other direction, there's some lion cubs. 10,000 water buck, and I say to myself, you know what, nature can rebound. The rebound is in southeast Africa, near the center of Mozambique. Here, 28 years of war from the 60s to the 90s killed an estimated 1 million people

and wiped out 95% of the wildlife in Gorongosa for food and profit. As the war raged in the 1980s, Greg Carr was a tech entrepreneur who'd made a fortune perfecting voicemail. He quit business to devote himself to human rights, and in 2004, he met Mozambique's president, Joaquin Chisano, who made a wild pitch. And he said, look, please come to Mozambique and help us. We want to restore our national park. When we flew over this, I said, this is it. When we met Carr in 2008, his non-profit foundation had signed a 20-year contract with Mozambique.

His plan was to import animals from all over Africa. Well, step one, we had to remove 20,000 traps and wire snares that were left in this park, left over from the war. Get rid of all those, because when I first came here, I mean, we think we had five or six lions, maybe. In a million acres. In a million acres. And the lions that we did have, most of them had three legs, because they had stepped in a trap or something. And then second, some of the species were just gone completely. So we went on a process.

First, bring in the herbivores. So we bring in 200 buffalo. We bring in 200 wildebeest. We bring in some zebra. And then when you've got enough herbivores, then you're going to want the carnivores back. So we reintroduced leopards. We reintroduced hyenas. The lions, all by themselves, their numbers just took off.

So from five or six lions when we started, we now have probably 200. Gorongosa's lion conservation is urgent because since 1950, Africa's lion population has fallen from half a million to 20,000 due to habitat loss and hunting. We saw how Gorongosa is protecting its lions on a mission with park veterinarian Antonio Palo. Okay, I'll shoot now. Palo fired a tranquilizer dart.

Right on target. And a 300-pound lioness led us on a chase. Give space. Turn around, turn around. She left us behind, but she couldn't outrun the sedative. There she is. Yeah, she's there. She's sleeping. She'd be out about an hour as Dr. Paolo changed her failing GPS collar. The signal goes to headquarters where they

track the prides and herds. A bit of ear was nicked for genetic tests and then there was a surprise. You think she's pregnant? Yeah, she looks like pregnant. And there is the future of the park? Yes, the future cubs of the park. Later, she awoke and headed out with her future cub. I never imagined it would go so well or so fast. In 2018, we did an aerial survey. So counting only the big animals, we counted 100,000 large animals from the air. Thrilled as he is, it wasn't wildlife that drew this 63-year-old Idaho native

to Africa. In 2008, he introduced us to the 200,000 people living around the park, survivors of the wars living on a dollar a day. People had nothing. I mean, they didn't have clothes. They were wearing rags or they had made clothes out of tree bark. They were eating insects and trying to catch mice. And, you know, that's when it struck me. Well, this national park's going to have to help the people.

Today, Gorongosa National Park employs 1,600 workers. Tourism brings in cash, which goes to the people and to the park. And Greg Carr has partnered with the government on health care and education. Carr is the biggest donor, but U.S. foreign aid kicks in about $6 million a year. We now work in 89 primary schools, which is every single school that surrounds this national park. We are training 600 school teachers right now. Now think about how difficult it is to create a school system when you don't have school teachers that know how to read and write. Because of generations of war.

Now something we really focused on as step one was really vulnerable girls. don't have school teachers that know how to read and write, because of generations of war. Now something we really focused on as step one was really vulnerable girls. Now a lot of times what happens, in the poor families around here, a girl turns 13 or 14 and the family says, "'Well, it's time for her to get married.'" Now it may not be what they actually want, but they don't think there's another choice,

and this is what happens, and you know, she marries a farmer and that's it. So we started something called the Girls Club. There are 3,000 girls in 92 after-school clubs. The program is led by Larissa Souza. Why is this the job of a conservation park? Why not? It should be the job of a conservation park? Why not? It should be the job for everyone.

For everyone. Education is for everyone. The clubs provide the resources to get the girls into high school. And it gives students an answer to our question, which five years ago wouldn't have made sense. What do you want to be? We have a teacher, a nurse, a conservation park ranger, and another nurse. Yes. When we started the program, they didn't know that they had this choice. And now they do.

Now they do. This land belongs to these people. They've been here forever. It's their animals, it's their land, it's their trees, it's their cultural and spiritual heritage. It's an idea that came from my hero, Nelson Mandela. The idea was to create a human rights park. What does that mean, right? A park that cares about the people, a park that belongs to the people. So instead of a park turning its back on the people, a park that belongs to the people. So instead of a park turning its back on the people, a park opening itself to the people and saying,

this is your park, these are your animals, these are your opportunities. We saw those opportunities on Mount Gorongosa, which was stripped of trees during the wars. Here, Carr's non-profit foundation is giving away coffee trees. Eight hundred and sixty-eight family farmers working for themselves are earning far more than ever, so they can't plant trees fast enough, which reforests the mountain. Carr's foundation buys the beans at above the market rate and built the farmers

a roasting plant. There's no better example of Carr's model for lifting people and healing the wild. It's working, but the last 14 years haven't been sweet music alone. Since we were here in 2008, there have been enormous roadblocks to this project. That's right. If I had known then what was going to come. What came was another civil war in 2013. And then, in 2019, a cyclone leveled 100,000 homes. Okay, there was the six years of war, and then the cyclone. When Cyclone Idai hit, basically every one of our employees became a first responder. So, in other words, oh, there's an elephant right there.

Well, there certainly is. I just have to stop and say hello to the elephant. We couldn't find the wildlife in 2008. And now they're interrupting our interview. And now they're walking in on the interview. Well. Was there ever a time that you thought to yourself, I did my best, but this just isn't going to be humanly possible? Not for a second. Not for a second.

Not for one second. With the cyclones, with the return of the Civil War. I just think every time something like that happens, it just makes you more determined, not less determined. And when you've got people suffering in a war that need help or people suffering in a cycle that need help, you're more committed. You don't lose commitment at a time like that. We saw commitment in the rangers who protect the park. For the flora and the fauna, they sing, we will die for our park.

Part of what they protect are endangered species, including this mammal with a bottomless taste for termites. Pangolins are hunted for their scales, which are prized in folk medicine. Veterinarian Mircia Angela told us that pangolins ride on their mother's backs. Oh, hello there. But we found any back will do. That's funny. He just naturally goes right up to the shoulder and hangs on your back. Yeah. Powerful tail.

Yeah, the tail is very powerful. They're also used for protection. I'm surprised they're so docile. I mean, this is a wild animal. Yes, it's a wild animal. Success, eh? But for us, the most interesting animal in the park... Is Greg Carr.

An entrepreneur with the empathy to see, the humility to listen, and the optimism to act. His business model is creating a new ecosystem where animals that were hunted are suddenly worth much more alive. How much of your personal fortune have you put into this? Well, I'd like to keep that a secret, but unfortunately, I think, you know, you could probably do the math and figure it out. It's more than $100 million. My message to anybody with money is, I mean, what are you going to do, stick it all in your casket? I mean, why not, you know, why not enjoy the joy of philanthropy? I would say to the billionaire next door, go out and enjoy spending your money to help some people. Find your Gorongosa.

Find your Gorongosa. And it will bless you more than you can possibly ever bless it. You'd expect a 600-year-old sport to have played through its identity crisis. Not the case for pool. The sport's very name comes from pooling money to determine odds, and wagering lends pool mystique. Hustling and pool go together like a cue stick and chalk. But that's as much a curse as a blessing. How can a sport thrive at the highest level when so much of it exists in the

shadows? Well, here comes Shane Van Boning from Rapid City. Aged 39, with no interest in gambling, he's arguably the best American player ever to break a rack and rank number one in the world for 2022. He also happens to be deaf. Can the South Dakota kid help turn pool, popular in bars and basements but not on TV, into a proper pro sport? We hit the circuit with him to find out. Another day, another casino hotel. Shane Van Boning spends 300 days a year on the road playing professional pool. Today, he's clocking in early at the jamboree of American pool tournaments, the Derby City Classic. Held every January outside Louisville, Derby City is a colorful expression of pool's split personality. Downstairs, a felt ocean drawing dozens of the world's best practitioners.

They compete 12 hours a day for nine days in multiple events. This winner is smiling ear to ear, and his check tops out at $16,000. But upstairs, it's a different economy. Behold Poole's zestier side. Pop-up action rooms, standing room only, where pros, amateurs, and wannabes alike come to the table for unofficial competition. The signs say no smoking and no gambling, and we sure didn't see any smoking. Tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars, big timber they call it, change hands until the sun comes up. One player we didn't see gambling upstairs, Shane Van Boning, a generational talent known for his killer break.

Van Boning has won the U.S. Open five times and been named Player of the Decade. Deaf since birth, he wears hearing aids and shuts down any question that makes it harder for him to play pool. It's actually a big advantage for me. How's that? You know, when I play a pool tournament, I can just shut it off. Do you shut your hearing aids off when you play? When I won my first US Open, I had everything off. I was focused.

Total silence? Yes. I'm totally, like, 100% zoned in. Never more zoned in than in 2018, when he led the United States to victory over Europe at the Moscone Cup, Poole's answer to golf's Ryder Cup. And he is going for it. He closed it out with an off-angle, long-distance 1-9 combo, this high-risk, high-reward, pressure-packed shot. What a shot! Shane Van Bing and Team USA! Unbelievable finish! Think you could have made that shot?

We went to Rapid City, South Dakota, a side pocket of America, to Van Boning's pool hall, where he explained that making balls disappear into pockets is only half of pool excellence. It's also about setting up your next shots. Cue ball control, they call it. And I'm gonna make the cue ball stop right here so I can shoot the two on the side. Then I'm gonna... All right, is that, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You did that how? How did you do that? Just hit it right below center. So now it lines up that next ball perfectly. Yeah. I'm so struck by the geometry of all this. Yeah, I love geometry. It's all about the angles. Van Boning says he can see every angle on the table, a sixth sense that comes from practicing as much as 10 hours a day, shooting half a million balls a year. I want to make the shot perfect.

The only way to hit it perfect. You got to do it over and over and over. Can you be perfect in the sport? No. I tried so hard all these years. Van Boning comes by it honestly. His grandfather, Gary Bloomberg, a known trick shot artist, opened pool halls off I-90. Easy access for hustlers passing across the Great Plains. But these rooms were family-friendly places. So much so, Shane got his first pool cue when he was two and went to the pool room every day after school. Not just to play, but to escape kids who picked on him for being deaf. How bad did it get? The kids would start throwing rocks at me. They would put gum in my hair.

And then I would go home to my mom, and I'd be going home crying. And then she made me feel better by asking me, do you want to go to the pool? Why did coming to the pool room make you feel better? You know, when you walk in the pool room, what do you see? You see people having a good time. But it was more than that. He had prodigious ability for thinking multiple strokes ahead. When Van Boning was 18, he hit the road.

He and his uncle loaded into an RV looking for money games. Came to play pool, Fats. Of course they did. The hustler, that stealth roadman armed only with a wooden stick and confidence, divorcing the locals from their cash, has been romanticized for decades, not least by Paul Newman. This reporter was so taken by pool hustling, he once wrote a book about it. For Van Boning, the romance hit the rocks abruptly. Yeah, I actually was playing in a pool in Tennessee and I was playing this guy for money and we were playing for a whole lot and he was losing and he picked up the keyboard and threw it at me. Where'd he hit you? Hit me right on the chest. It's the kind of thing you do to start a fight. Yeah. How'd you react? I told my uncle, I said, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to live on the road anymore.

It's just too dangerous. Here we go for the title. He chose to go legit and began playing and winning proper tournaments. Though less lucrative than the rambling gambling life, Van Boning enjoyed being a professional. Did you worry that coming in off the road was going to impact your finances? I know some of the pool players, like the top pool players, were making money, so if they can do it, I can do it. But pool is a deceptively tricky sport.

Next up, two superpowers collide. Just ask Shane's Scottish counterpart, Jason Shaw, another top player. Earlier this year, Shaw holed up in a Virginia pool room for five days and broke the straight pool record, making 714 shots in a row. The stuff that happens in pool will completely screw your brain up. What do you mean? You'll see shots that you'll be like, how did that happen? You'll hear that all day. How did that land over there? Did you see that? How that went in? In pool, you see every game something weird will happen. Does that make it more exhilarating or more frustrating? Both. Mentally, you want to flip the table at some point.

You ever flip the table? No, I've thought about it a few times. People come in and, how hard could it be? It's just a rectangle with six pockets. And then 20 minutes later, there's still 15 balls on the table. They've not potted a ball, and the guy's stretching his head like, I thought this was easy. They've not potted a ball and the guy's like stretching his head like, I thought this was easy. It's not.

We watched you at Derby City play Jason Shaw. Jason who? Yeah. The arrival? Yeah. It's been going on for several years now.

He's a great player. And, well, you're going to have a battle. You okay with that? Yeah. You have to accept losing. If you don't accept losing, you're going to have a battle. You okay with that? Yeah you have to accept losing. If you don't accept losing you're just you're going to go crazy. How thick is this ice right here? If having a rival is central to being an elite athlete so is this. Leaving time to clear your head. So it was we found ourselves following Shane Van Boning out on to Pactola Lake in the Black Hills.

Van Boning goes fishing, season be damned, every morning when he's back home. We didn't catch any fish. We did catch Van Boning's drift, though, his take on the virtues of complete silence. Vanity plate notwithstanding, few extravagances come with being number one in pool. The ragtag pro tour, barely televised in the U.S., struggles to draw much interest or investment outside of pool diehards. How many sponsors do you have? I have six sponsors. Cues and tables and pool products? Yes. And any sponsors outside of pool?

No. What can a top player make? Top player in pool can make only six figures. After expenses, maybe five figures. No one's making a million bucks as a pool player. It's never happened. Van Boning says cleaning up the sport, doing away with backroom money games, would lure big corporate sponsors, big media deals, and grow professional pool.

We saw firsthand his discomfort with gambling and all that comes with it. When we interviewed you in Derby City, I don't know if you remember, the interview was interrupted. Do you recall what happened? Oh, the gambling? Was that what happened? Yeah. It was morning at Derby City, and the action upstairs from the night before was still simmering. Are they arguing?

Over the course of a few minutes, two players who'd bet on a game nearly came to blows. You cannot gamble, you know. Van Boning could only shake his head. It's got to be a clean sport. Enter Pro Pool's unlikely new guardian, Emily Fraser of the British sports promoter Matchroom. The company recently revamped pro darts and snooker in the UK, streamlining their circuits and turning top players into celebrities who make millions. That's where the trophy sits. Fraser is tasked with doing the same for pool,

and she says gambling is the least of her worries. What's the state of professional pool today? An absolute mess. Why do you say that? The first ever US Open that I did in 2019, oh my gosh, the players turned up. They were in jeans. And I'm going, hang on a second,

what's happening here? Why is this guy turning up in jeans? Fraser has asked pro players to dress the part, but she won't ask them to give up their side hustles. Now, all of the basement tables and the money matches, I think that's brilliant. You do? Yeah, I think that's fantastic because it's got the history behind it.

You're okay if people are still gambling and playing money games. As far as I'm concerned, in a couple of years' time, they won't need to have any money matches. It'll be obsolete. The market will do its thing. Exactly. But right now, it's not viewed as this professional sport. And it has all the ingredients to be one. She's standardized the format. This is commercialized, sponsor-friendly nine ball, not the solids and stripes eight ball you've likely played.

In October at the U.S. Open held in Atlantic City, Frazier brought in bigger live audiences and ramped up TV production. She's kept one pool hallmark, the smoke-filled room. Close, but no cigar. There's a machine puffing away in the corner. When the smoke cleared, there was Shane Van Boning. He was fresh off winning his first world championship, sealing his status atop the sport.

He confided to us that he'd slept with the trophy for a month. Van Boning is mobbed at pool tournaments, but can still walk through an airport unbothered. Well, he's no LeBron James, and I totally understand that, and I recognize that. It's our job to turn that around. It is our responsibility to turn that world number one prize money from $80,000 to a million. So it's prize money. It's more events, and let's get these players known. You've got to fall in love with them. Are they lovable? Yeah, some of them.

The health of the sport also depends on minting a new generation of elite players. So this tournament had a junior division held alongside the pros and named, what else, the Shane Van Boning Junior Open. These are future pros? Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. They have so much passion for the game. And then I'm going to shoot the shish. Back at the pool hall in Rapid City,

we experience pools' highs and lows in the same hour. You didn't even let me hit a ball. Ever the sports gentleman, Shane Van Boning wouldn't let us leave without setting us up to sink a trick shot. Pool may or may not clean up its act, but any sport that can provide this kind of pure, simple thrill... Just go right down the middle? Yep, right down the middle. You reckon it'll survive just fine. Oh!

You got that. One surprising thing we learned this past week about President Macron is how troubled he is by how intolerance, hate speech, and cancel culture are amplified on social media on both sides of the Atlantic. Emotion is always stronger than argumentation. And negative emotion is stronger than positive emotion. So on a lot of the social platform, negative emotions, feelings, are the one to triumph. And during the past few years we had such a resurgence

of violence, hatred speeches and a sort of inability of our own societies to live together. And this is why we need a new process of civilization for our social networks and we have to restore precisely

what a democratic and respectful conversation means, exchanging opinions and ideas, sometimes to agree, sometimes to disagree. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.