60 Minutes - 4/10/2016: 28 Pages, Rising in the East, Switching Teams

Episode Date: April 11, 2016

Steve Kroft reports on possible Saudi support for 9/11 hijackers; Holly Williams looks at China's fast-growing film industry; Lesley Stahl profiles Harvard swimmer Schuyler Bailer, the first openly transgender athlete to compete in an NCAA Division I men's sport. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Grocer $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Behind these doors in the U.S. Capitol is a vault that contains one of the most secret and sensitive documents in the United States. 28 pages that could shed light on the events of 9-11.

They've been seen by very few people, and tonight you'll hear from some of them. I think it is implausible to believe that 19 people, most of whom didn't speak English, could have carried out such a complicated task without some support from within the United States. And you believe that the 28 pages are crucial to this? I think they are a key part. In the remote hills of eastern China, this is a magic kingdom that not even Walt Disney could have dreamed up. It's called Hung Dien World Studios,

and at over 7,000 acres, it's the largest film lot on the planet. You're going to use Hollywood directors, Hollywood stars, to make English language films to compete with Hollywood. And make global blockbusters. Yes. I think we'll be doing it in the next one or two years. Skylar Baylor seemed to be a young woman who had it all. Outstanding grades, admission to Harvard, and a top spot on their women's swim team. Skylar still swims for Harvard, but he's now on the men's team, welcomed by his classmates as an openly transgender athlete. How different are you if I had met you a couple years ago and then saw you today?

Physically, you'd say, yeah, you might not recognize me. You look that different. I'd say so, yeah. I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes.

In 10 days, President Obama will visit Saudi Arabia at a time of deep mistrust between the two allies and lingering doubts about the Saudi commitment to fighting violent Islamic extremism. It also comes at a time when the White House and intelligence officials are reviewing whether to declassify one of the country's most sensitive documents, known as the 28 pages. They have to do with 9-11 and the possible existence of a Saudi support network for the hijackers while they were in the U.S. For 13 years, the 28 pages have been locked away in a secret vault. Only a small group of people have ever seen them. Tonight, you'll hear from some of the people who have read them

and believe, along with the families of 9-11 victims, that they should be declassified. I think it is implausible to believe that 19 people, most of whom didn't speak English, most of whom had never been in the United States before, many of whom didn't have a, most of whom had never been in the United States before, many of whom didn't have a high school education, could have carried out such a complicated task without some support from within the United States. And you believe that the 28 pages are crucial to this? I think they are a key part. Former U.S. Senator Bob Graham has been trying to get the 28 pages released since the day they were classified back in 2003, when he played a major role in the first government investigation into 9-11.

I remain deeply disturbed by the amount of material that has been censored from this report. At the time, Graham was chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. I call the Joint Inquiry Committee to order. And co-chair of the bipartisan Joint Congressional Inquiry into intelligence failures surrounding the attacks. The Joint Inquiry reviewed a half a million documents, interviewed hundreds of witnesses, and produced an 838-page report, minus the final chapter, which was blanked out, excised by the Bush administration for reasons of national security.

So this is your office? Bob Graham won't discuss the classified information in the 28 pages. He will say only that they outline a network of people that he believes supported the hijackers while they were in the U.S. You believe that support came from Saudi Arabia? Substantially. And when we say the Saudis, you mean the government, rich people in the country, charities? All of the above. Graham and others believe the Saudi role has been soft-pedaled to protect a delicate relationship with a complicated kingdom where the rulers, royalty, riches, and religion are all deeply

intertwined in its institutions. Porter Goss, who was Graham's Republican co-chairman on the House side of the joint inquiry, and later director of the CIA, also felt strongly that an uncensored version of the 28 pages should be included in the final report. The two men made their case to the FBI and its then-director, Robert Mueller, in a face-to-face meeting. They pushed back very hard on the 28 pages, and they said, no, that cannot be unclassified at this time. Did you happen to ask the FBI director why it was classified? We did, in a general way, and the answer was because we said so and it needs to be classified. Goss says he knew of no reason then and knows of no reason now why the pages need to be classified.

They are locked away under the Capitol in guarded vaults called sensitive compartmented information facilities, or SCIFs in government jargon. This is as close as we could get with our cameras, a highly restricted area where members of Congress with the proper clearances can read the documents under close supervision. No note-taking allowed. It's all got to go up here, Steve. Tim Romer, a former Democratic congressman

and U.S. ambassador to India, has read the 28 pages multiple times, first as a member of the Joint Inquiry and later as a member of the Blue Ribbon 9-11 Commission, which picked up where Congress's investigation left off. How hard is it to actually read these 28 pages? Very hard. These are tough documents to get your eyes on. Romer and others who have actually read the 28 pages describe them as a working draft, similar to a grand jury or police report that includes provocative evidence, some verified and some not. They lay out the possibility of official Saudi assistance for two of the hijackers who settled in Southern California. That information from the 28 pages was turned over to the 9-11 Commission for further investigation. Some of the questions raised

were answered in the Commission's final report. Others were not. Is there information in the 28 pages that if they were declassified would surprise people? Sure, you're going to be surprised by it. And you're going to be surprised by some of the answers that are sitting there today in the 9-11 Commission report about what happened in San Diego and what happened in Los Angeles and what was the Saudi involvement. Much of that surprising information is buried in footnotes and appendices of the 9-11 report,

part of the official public record, but most of it unknown to the general public. These are some, but not all, of the facts. In January of 2000, the first of the hijackers landed in Los Angeles after attending an al-Qaeda summit in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The two Saudi nationals, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midar, arrived with extremely limited language skills and no experience with Western culture. Yet through an incredible series of circumstances,

they managed to get everything they needed, from housing to flight lessons. L.A., San Diego, that's really, you know, the hornet's nest. That's really the one that I continue to think about almost on a daily basis. During their first days in L.A., witnesses placed the two future hijackers at the King Fahd Mosque in the company of Fahd Althumary, a diplomat at the Saudi consulate known to hold extremist views. Later, 9-11 investigators would find him deceptive and suspicious, and in 2003, he would be denied re-entry to the United States for having suspected ties to terrorist activity. This is a very interesting person in the whole 9-11 episode of who might

have helped whom in Los Angeles and San Diego with two terrorists who didn't know their way around. Phone records show that Thumeri was also in regular contact with this man, Omar al-Bayoumi, a mysterious Saudi who became the hijacker's biggest benefactor. He was a ghost employee with a no-show job at a Saudi aviation contractor outside Los Angeles while drawing a paycheck from the Saudi government. You believe Bayoumi was a Saudi agent? Yes. What makes you believe that? Well, for one thing, he'd been listed even before 9-11 in FBI files as being a Saudi agent. On the morning of February 1, 2000, Bayoumi went to the office of the Saudi consulate where Thumary worked.

He then proceeded to have lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant on Venice Boulevard, where he later claimed he just happened to make the acquaintance of the two future hijackers. Hasmeh Midhar magically run into Bayoumi in a restaurant that Bayoumi claims is a coincidence in one of the biggest cities in the United States. And he decides to befriend them. He decides to not only befriend them, but then to help them move to San Diego and get residence. In San Diego, Bayoumi found them a place to live in his own apartment complex, advanced them the security deposit, and co-signed the lease. He even threw them a party and introduced them to other Muslims who would help the hijackers obtain government IDs

and enroll in English classes and flight schools. There's no evidence that Bayoumi or Thumari knew what the future hijackers were up to, and it is possible that they were just trying to help fellow Muslims. There's no evidence that Bayoumi or Thumary knew what the future hijackers were up to, and it is possible that they were just trying to help fellow Muslims. But the very day Bayoumi welcomed the hijackers to San Diego, there were four calls between his cell phone and the imam at a San Diego mosque. Anwar al-Awlaki, a name that should sound familiar. America cannot and will not win. The American-born al-Awlaki would be infamous a decade later as al-Qaeda's chief propagandist and top operative in Yemen

until he was taken out by a CIA drone. But in January 2001, a year after becoming the hijacker's spiritual advisor, he left San Diego for Falls Church, Virginia. Months later, Hosmy, Midar, and three more hijackers would join him there. Those are a lot of coincidences, and that's a lot of smoke. Is that enough to make you squirm and uncomfortable and dig harder and declassify these 28 pages? Absolutely. Perhaps no one is more interested in reading the 28 pages than attorneys Jim Kreinler and Sean Carter, who represent family members of the 9-11 victims in their lawsuit against the kingdom,

alleging that its institutions provided money to al-Qaeda knowing that it was waging war against the United States. What we're doing in court is developing the story that has to come out. But it's been difficult for us because for many years we weren't getting the kind of openness and cooperation that we think our government owes to the American people, particularly the families of people who are murdered. The U.S. government has even backed the Saudi position in court that it can't be sued because it enjoys sovereign immunity. The 9-11 Commission report says that Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of al-Qaeda funding through its wealthy citizens

and charities with significant government sponsorship. But the sentence that got the most attention when the report came out is this. We have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organization. Attorney Sean Carter says it's the most carefully crafted line in the 9-11 Commission report and the most misunderstood. When they say that we found no evidence that senior Saudi officials individually funded al-Qaeda, they conspicuously leave open the potential that they found evidence that people who were officials that they did not regard as senior officials had done so. That is the essence of the family's lawsuit, that elements of the

government and lower-level officials sympathetic to bin Laden's cause helped al-Qaeda carry out the attacks and helped sustain the al-Qaeda network. Yet for more than a decade, the kingdom has maintained that that one sentence exonerated it of any responsibility for 9-11, regardless of what might be in the 28 pages. It's not an exoneration. What we said, we did not, with this report, exonerate the Saudis. Former U.S. Senator Bob Kerry is another of the 10-member 9-11 Commission who has read the 28 pages and believes they should be declassified.

He filed an affidavit in support of the 9-11 family's lawsuit. You can't provide the money for terrorists and then say, I don't have anything to do with what they were doing. Do you believe that all of the leads that were developed in the 28 pages You can't provide the money for terrorists and then say, I don't have anything to do with what they were doing. Do you believe that all of the leads that were developed in the 28 pages were answered in the 9-11 report? No. In general, the 9-11 Commission did not get every single detail of the conspiracy. We didn't. We didn't have the time. We didn't have the resources. And we certainly didn't pursue the entire line of inquiry in regards to Saudi Arabia.

Do you think all of these things in San Diego can be explained as coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences. John Lehman, who was Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration, says that he and the others make up a solid majority of former 9-11 commissioners who think the 28 pages should be made public. We're not a bunch of rubes that rode into Washington for this commission. I mean, you know, we've seen fire and we've seen rain in the politics of national security. We all have dealt for our careers in highly classified and compartmentalized and every aspect of security,

we know when something shouldn't be declassified. And those 28 pages in no way fall into that category. Lehman has no doubt that some high Saudi officials knew that assistance was being provided to al-Qaeda, but he doesn't think it was ever official policy. He also doesn't think that it absolves the Saudis of responsibility. It was no accident that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. They all went to Saudi schools. They learned from the time they were first able to go to school of this tolerant brand of Islam. Lehman is talking about Wahhabism, the ultra-conservative puritanical form of Islam that's rooted here and permeates every facet of society.

There is no separation of church and state. After oil, Wahhabism is one of the kingdom's biggest exports. Saudi clerics, entrusted with Islam's holiest shrines, have immense power and billions of dollars to spread the faith, building mosques and religious schools all over the world that have become recruiting grounds for violent extremists. 9-11 Commissioner John Lehman says all of this comes across in the 28 pages. This is not going to be a smoking gun that is going to cause a huge furor. But it does give a very compact illustration of the kinds of things that went on that would really help the American people to understand

how is it that these people are springing up all over the world to go to jihad? Look, the Saudis have even said they're for declassifying it. We should declassify it. Is it sensitive, Steve? Might it involve opening a bit of can of worms or some snakes crawling out of there? Yes. But I think we need a relationship with the Saudis where both countries are working together to fight against terrorism. And that's not always been the case. Sometimes historic events suck. But what shouldn't suck is learning about history.

I do that through storytelling. History That Doesn't Suck is a chart-topping history--telling podcast chronicling the epic story of America, decade by decade. Right now, I'm digging into the history of incredible infrastructure projects of the 1930s, including the Hoover Dam, the Empire State Building, the Golden Gate Bridge, and more. The promise is in the title, History That Doesn't Suck. Available on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, Holly Williams of CBS News on assignment for 60 minutes. The Chinese economy is in trouble,

plagued by slowing growth and uncertainty in the stock markets. But there's one industry that isn't suffering, the movie business. In February, the Chinese box office brought in over a billion dollars for the first time ever, beating the US and Canada. China, with its 1.3 billion people, is expected to become the biggest movie market in the world as early as next year. Hollywood has taken notice, partnering with Chinese studios and making blockbusters as much for Chinese audiences as American ones. But the US film industry is also facing competition from Chinese moguls and movie stars with big ambitions. Tonight, a journey to a new Hollywood, rising in the East.

In the remote hills of eastern China, this is a magic kingdom that not even Walt Disney could have dreamed up. It's called Hengdian World Studios, and at over 7,000 acres, it's the largest film lot on the planet. A palace for every dynasty, a village for every era, where some of the biggest movies in China have been filmed over the last two decades. These sets aren't flimsy facades, but full-scale brick-and-mortar replicas of China's imperial past.

And when the films wrap, a brief silence, before the sets are flooded by 15 million tourists who visit every year. It's all the domain of Xu Wenrong, a one-time farmer who realised his fields were fertile ground for a new industry. Permission is hardly ever granted to film in the real Forbidden City, China's iconic landmark, so he built his own. It took several hundred years to build the real Forbidden City and it took you five years to build this one. It took you five years to build this one. And you made the whole thing from cement.

Xu got the idea for this place 20 years ago after a visit to Hollywood. Movies weren't big business in China back then, but he spent a billion dollars gambling on their growth. Do you feel a bit like an emperor when you come here? No. You're just an ordinary guy? An ordinary guy whose empire hosts 30 different productions every day. As the film crews compete for space with tourists who crowd the sets, straining to get a glimpse of the stars.

When the cameras start rolling, movie magic. The movie business is booming across China. Shopping malls have popped up everywhere, and with them, theatres. 22 new movie screens open every day. That's right, every day. In the last five years, box office receipts have grown a staggering 350%. It's created a kind of mass hysteria and something China's never seen before, star culture. Li Bingbing has been described as China's Angelina Jolie. It feels as if the movie industry here in China is getting more and more like Hollywood. The speed of the development, you can't imagine, even for us.

It's changing so quickly. So quickly. You don't even react. It's already changed. And transformed into a multi-billion dollar industry. Chinese studios produce over 600 features a year. Action movies, sci-fi, thrillers. Behind them is a group of pioneering movie moguls like Dennis Wang. He once worked as a Chinese food delivery man in New York and is now chairman of the Huayi Brothers, one of the largest studios in the country. The movie business has made him a billionaire,

a capitalist with Chinese characteristics. Last year, he spent $30 million on a Picasso, which he keeps in his pocket and in one of his other homes. So that's the Picasso. And you bought it from the Goldwyn family, who own the MGM Studios in Hollywood. So it's not so much a passing of the torch, it's a passing of the Picasso.

The biggest prize isn't Picasso's, but Hollywood itself. This year, a Chinese company purchased a Hollywood studio for $3.5 billion. Others have been investing in multi-movie production deals with American companies to make films for the global market. You're going to use Hollywood directors, Hollywood stars... Yes. ..to make English-language films...

Right. ..to compete with Hollywood. Right. And make global blockbusters. Yes. I think we'll be doing it in the next one or two years. Maybe in five years we'll be doing it really well. In five years you'll be competing with Hollywood.

I think we can do it. Even though China's economy has slumped in the last year, Dennis's brother James, the Huaiyi brothers' CEO, says the movie business is recession-proof. When the economy is weak, the movie business does really well. When times are bad, people go to the movies and feel happy, and it doesn't cost them much money. So the bad times actually could be good for the film industry.

In the last 20 years, the biggest box office earners have come out when the economy is bad. It's interesting. The sheer size of the Chinese market has Hollywood salivating and desperate to get in on the action. Dee Dee Nickerson is an American film producer who spent the last 20 years making movies in China. Today, if you sit in a green light meeting in a Hollywood studio, at any of the studios, at any of the major six studios there,

China is part of every green light discussion. They're wondering, will Chinese audiences like this film? They have to because oftentimes the Chinese box office is larger than the U.S. box office, especially for the big blockbuster films. Blockbusters like Transformers 4. There remains a price on my head. Which made $300 million in China,

was partly filmed there, and co-stars Li Bingbing. But the Chinese government has a quota system which only allows 34 foreign films into the country every year. To get around the rule, Hollywood has been co-producing movies in China with local studios. Kung Fu Panda 3 was animated in California and Shanghai at the same time. I lost my father. I'm very sorry. And co-produced by DreamWorks

and its spin-off, Oriental DreamWorks. CEO James Fong showed us how they were tailoring the movie for both audiences. What we've done is that we're actually reanimating everything around the mouth and the throat. So when you look at a Chinese version of the movie, you no longer have a misalignment between the voices and the look movement. So in the Chinese version, they look as if they're speaking in Chinese. That's correct. Whereas in the U.S. version, they look as if they're speaking English. The Dumpling Squadron will take position here on my signal.

Has this ever been done before? This has never been done before. For years, the only movies anyone could watch in China were communist propaganda, revolutionary heroes, patriotic peasants and guerrilla soldiers. Those who strayed too far from the party line were thrown in jail or worse. As a teenager, filmmaker Chen Kaige was pressured to denounce his own father, also a director, as an enemy of the state. I feel very, very guilty. But you were forced to do that by the political situation in China. You were only 14 years old.

No, I still feel guilty because I had a choice. I had a choice. In the 90s, after things had loosened up, Chen chose to make films that were critical of the regime, like Farewell, My Concubine, which earned two Oscar nominations and tells the story of opera singers who were persecuted by communist henchmen.

That movie helped put Chinese film on the map. But today, Chen, one of China's most venerated filmmakers, finds it hard to keep up. It's become big business. Exactly. Chinese people want to see popcorn movies, want to see blockbusters. That's totally understandable, you know.

They don't give a s**t. They just say, hey, we're here to watch a movie. They're a generation that's grown up on China's booming consumer culture. And on the surface, their lifestyles look more and more like young people's in the West. Prosperity has transformed China. It's no longer a closed communist country. But amidst all this modernity, the Chinese government still censors films and decides which ones can be shown in theatres. We asked to speak with the government officials who oversee the film industry here, but they declined to be

interviewed. Some things haven't changed. It's not easy filming anything in China. Those were just private security guards. But when it comes to making movies, the government's involved in almost every step of the process, from deciding which movies get made to screening the final cut. Censors held up this World War II epic, City of Life and Death, for the better part of a year because the film depicted soldiers from Japan,

China's wartime enemy, in a flattering light. Lu Chuan was its director. Some newspapers put me as a traitor. A traitor? Yes, yes, yes. Because you dared to show a Japanese soldier as a human being? Yes. He wasn't certain his latest film, a monster movie,

Chronicles of the Ghostly Tribe, would fare any better, even though it has nothing to do with politics. It's very realistic looking. politics. It's very realistic looking. Yes. It's very frightening. That's my goal. Three years ago, the government didn't allow monster movies. Today, it does.

Navigating the whims of the senses can be treacherous and confusing. They will determine the fate of your movie. And can you argue with them? You can talk. You can argue. Yes. Does it work? Sometimes, but you have to compromise. Hollywood's been compromising to please the censors too, cutting whole sections out of films before they're released in China, like scenes depicting Chinese bad guys in Men in Black 3. You arrest me, that's a hate crime. It would be if you were Chinese.

But Dee Dee Nickerson, the China-based American producer, thinks U.S. studios are learning how to avoid that kind of meddling by the government. You'll see less and less of that because China is so important to Hollywood that I would say that those decisions are going to get made when a film is being greenlit, to be careful about what may be offensive to Chinese people or to the Chinese authorities. So they won't need to cut scenes? They just won't make them in the first place?

Self-censorship is the cost of doing business in China and a price US studios are willing to pay. But Hollywood's biggest challenge isn't Chinese government interference. It's competition from a young and dynamic industry. They're smart. They understand storytelling. They are super well-versed in what works in their own country. They're super well-versed in what works globally. I couldn't be more excited. So I would say Polly would watch out.

Just two years ago, Skylar Baylar was one of the fastest high school swimmers in the country, a champion breaststroker with a stellar academic record who had women swim coaches from around the Ivy League coming to call. Schuyler's first choice was Harvard, and as luck would have it, the Harvard women's swim team was in need of a breaststroker. Schuyler was offered a spot, and a seemingly perfect match was made. But when Harvard swimmers hit the pool deck this past fall, Schuyler had switched teams. Schuyler now swims with the men. The story of how Harvard came to be the first men's Division I athletic team in the nation to include an openly transgender young man

is also the story of a bigger transformation in attitudes, acceptance, and the larger conversation about what it means to be transgender. How different are you if I had met you a couple years ago and then saw you today? Physically, you'd say, yeah, you might not recognize me. You look that different. I'd say so, yeah. We'd say so, too. This is what Skylar Baylor looked like in high school.

From the outside, Skylar back then appeared to be a young woman who had it all. Outstanding grades in school, plus All-American times in the pool. An attractive combination to swim coaches from top-notch colleges. She was a very strong breaststroker, and those times were fast. Harvard women's coach Stephanie Mirosky traveled to D.C. to recruit Schuyler. First impressions? She was engaging, energetic, and she was somebody that I really thought would do well at Harvard. Harvard was Schuyler's first choice, but this fairy tale had a little wrinkle, one that may have started before Schuyler even learned to swim. When you were a little girl, were you a typical little girl?

Definitely not. Even 3, 4, 5? My parents dressed me in pink dresses and bow ties, and I had a doll. But I don't think I was typical even then, because I would like to rip them off, and I didn't want to wear the dresses. I'm not wearing a dress. Gregor and Terry Baylor are Skylar's parents. Did people think Skylar was a boy?

All the time. Terry and Gregor just assumed Skylar was a tomboy who preferred short hair and hanging out with the guys. That their daughter might be transgender never occurred to them, though there were clues. In middle school, Skyler's class had to make self-portraits in the present and the future. She came home with this. It made no sense at the time why the future meant becoming an old man with a mustache. And the confusion only worsened when puberty hit and things like breasts began to appear.

I was like, that's not something I want, and I don't really know why, but I just know I don't want that. Even though it felt wrong, Schuyler saw no choice but to try and make it work as a girl, with long hair and dresses. But it backfired. She developed major eating disorders. Bulimia, anorexia. Both. Both. It was serious.

We feared for his life. Yeah. They postponed Skylar's going to Harvard and got her help at an eating disorders program. When she went to hear some transgender men speak at a local church, wham, everything started to make sense. I was like, holy crap, this is me. Like this has, this is a hundred percent everything that they're saying. That's me. And I just melted down. I just started crying and sobbing. And my dad was picking up because he was coming to visit me that very day. Yeah. And I walked out to him and I said, and I just sobbing and my dad was picking up because he was coming to visit me that very day yeah and i walked out to him and i said and i just sobbing he's like and he just hugged me he came out you

know in tears and and um eventually he said like what's what's wrong skylar and i said dad i think i'm transgender so how did you handle it? I hugged him. And he cried and cried. It just made me realize, like, I wanted that so badly, but I knew how hard it was going to be. And I was like, what about swimming? What about my body? What about surgery?

What about the money? What about people? What are people going to say? What about my grandparents? What about my brother? Like, everything at once. I was like, but I want this, and I know I want this. Skylar's mental health improved quickly,

but there was still the matter of telling Coach Morosky that her new women's swimmer would now be coming to college as a man. So what was your reaction? Um, I was surprised, but the real big question Skylar had was, can I still swim on your team? What did you think? Did you think someone who identified as a man could swim on the women's team? I thought logistically we might have some issues that we'd have to work out.

Like NCAA rules, turns out the NCAA has a policy that allows for athletes who identify as male but were born female to compete on a women's team as long as they don't take male hormones. So Stephanie Mirosky said yes, and Schuyler started making plans to live something of a double life, to be a man on Harvard's campus the next fall, but a woman on Harvard's swim team. Meanwhile, Schuyler came out as transgender on Facebook and posted on Instagram that he had so-called top surgery, a double mastectomy to remove the breasts he hadn't wanted. The whole situation started to worry Coach Morosky. I think Stephanie was the first to realize that Skylar's plan of being a woman in the water but a man outside was going to

be totally detrimental to her psyche. When you enroll in college, it's an opportunity to start over again. You can reinvent yourself. You can reinvent yourself. And I was struggling watching Skyler because he wanted to reinvent himself as Skyler as a male, but was being held back by the athletic piece of it. She discussed her concerns with her friend and colleague, Harvard men's swim coach, Kevin Terrell. Kevin was just kind of looked at me and said, I don't, I agree with you. I don't think that you can have a dual identity. Why doesn't he just swim for my team? Just like that? Just like that. I mean, it made sense, right? If you're, if you're happy being a male as, and

that's what you want to identify as, then it makes sense to be on the men's swimming team. That would be allowed under NCAA rules, and he'd be permitted to take testosterone. But before giving Schuyler the option of joining the team, Terrell called a meeting of his swimmers to discuss what he thought would be a very sensitive issue. What were the reactions? They didn't see it as a big deal. They didn't? I had worked up all of these questions in my mind to ask them. And I asked them, and they were like, that sounds fine. When they didn't even express concern about the locker room, Terrell wasn't sure he believed them. So I concluded, well, guys, you know, let's come into my office, and if you want to talk to me one-on-one, please do. You thought some might be holding back. Right, just because of groupthink. Let's come into my office, and if you want to talk to me one-on-one, please do.

You thought some might be holding back. Right, just because of group think. And then so no one came into the office. And it surprised you? It did surprise me. I swam in college over 20 years ago, and I think it would have been a different process for me. But choosing between the women's and men's teams was agonizing for Schuyler, who was used to winning as a woman. On the men's team, he'd be at the back of the pack. Schuyler had to do a lot of thinking about what mattered most. Was it breaking records or was it really being happy? You put that

to him. I did. That was last spring. For Harvard in lane two, Skylar Baylar. This fall at Harvard's meet against Ivy League rival Columbia, we watched as Skylar got ready, scars visible across his chest, to step up onto the starting block to swim with the men as a man. My goal to myself, because it's not realistic for me to win anything right now at all, is to try to beat at least one person in every race. And have you met that goal so far? Almost. Yesterday I did get last in my second event, but that's the only one, and I've done eight races,

so seven out of eight of them have gotten not last. I'm really surprised. I'm really happy about it. And he's happy about living as a man in all facets of his life. He takes the NCAA-approved dosage of testosterone, which has been lowering his voice, broadening his shoulders, and bringing him closer to that future he had envisioned back in middle school. Do you have a little mustache? Yes, I have a little mustache, a little peach fuzz.

Are you shaving? Yes, and I shaved because I wanted to look nice for the interview. Skyler has been remarkably open about all this, chronicling the whole process of his transition on social media, complete with before and after images. And he's invited people to ask when they have questions. You are almost passionate about answering questions. Yes. You don't run away from this. People are ignorant, period, because it's not taught in school. Like, you don't know a lot of trans people. How are you supposed to know the answers to the questions

about people who are transgender? What kind of questions do you get? Do you still have a vagina? People like to ask that one, and a lot of people get really uncomfortable. A lot of trans people hate that question. You don't hate that question? I don't like it, but I try to see it from their perspective. And I'm like, OK, if I were in their position, I'd probably be wondering the same thing. Well, what's the answer to the question?

Yes. I mean, that's the answer to the question. That's the answer to the question? Yes. I mean, that's the answer to the question. That's the answer to the question. It's a simple question. He says being transgender has nothing to do with whether or not someone gets bottom surgery. And it also has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Skylar has always been attracted to girls. In high school, as a young woman, Skylar had come out as gay.

Now, as a man, he's straight. But there is one small matter we discovered where he's leaving his options open. You will never get pregnant. I don't know about that. That's a long story. Really? There are trans men that get pregnant because they want to have biological children. So this is in your head that one day you might give birth? Might is in bold and underlined and italic.

But yes, yeah. I don't know, I'm 19. 19 and healthy. Back at that Harvard-Columbia meet we went to, Po, Skyler, po! Skyler achieved his goal of beating one swimmer. Woo-hoo! Skyler achieved his goal of beating one swimmer. And he beat his own previous best time by more than a second. But we did notice Skyler, during the women's competition, cheering on his would-have-been teammates in his old event.

And we were pretty sure he noticed that his old times would have won first place. Have you ever, in the whole time, second-guessed what you did? I think I'd be lying if I said no. You have. I know I made the right decision, but I think sometimes I'm like, oh, I really wish I could compete as a girl because I want to win that race. It's fun to win, and it's something that I worked really hard for. And, you know, I worked the same amount, but now I'm working the same amount for 16th place, you know.

And that's okay. And that's okay. It's the way it is. And it's also a lot of fun. It has other kinds of glory in it. Different kind of glory. Definitely a different kind. It's a glory that, like, fills me inside. Compared to one year ago, how are you feeling?

Proud. In one word, proud. Phil Scheffler died this past Thursday. There aren't many people in our 48-year history as important to 60 Minutes as Phil. He joined a few years after the broadcast went on the air and became executive editor in 1980. Don Hewitt, 60 Minutes creator, often said he couldn't have done it without him, and those of us who worked with Phil felt the same way. We remember him for his straight talk and his editorial guidance. With all the big personalities that have come and gone from this broadcast, it was Phil who kept us on an even keel. We'll miss him. Phil Scheffler was 85. I'm Steve Kroft. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.