60 Minutes - 5/10/2020: Pandemic Politics, Amazon, Ghost Guns

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

Scott Pelley investigates if politics are preventing the scientific community from doing crucial research that could help find a vaccine for the coronavirus. The Internet giant continues take orders and send millions of packages each day, but some of its workers say Amazon isn't keeping its workforce safe. Lesley Stahl reports. They are virtually untraceable weapons that can be made at home using legally purchased parts. Ghost guns have turned up in criminal cases in most of the country. Bill Whitaker has the story. Those stories on this week's "60 Minutes." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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There is zero evidence that this virus came out of a lab in China. He should know. He's an American scientist who's been working with Chinese virus researchers for years. So why was his critical pandemic funding suddenly canceled by the White House? That's our story tonight. Amazon has been a lifeline for many Americans through the pandemic. We are regular human beings. Though some of the company's employees feel they have not been taken care of nearly as well. Their CEO, Jeff Bezos, has promised to spend $4 billion to make their workplaces safer and keep their products moving.

What does that look like? 60 Minutes was invited in to see. They can take someone's temperature that fast? It can. 60 Minutes has spent the last year and a half investigating build-it-yourself firearms called ghost guns. This is a firearm that was manufactured by a licensed manufacturer. The law requires them to mark them with certain markings, including a serial number. This is not marked.

No background check is completed when you purchase it. It's made at home by somebody using commonly available hand tools. So they both do the same thing. They both shoot. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Scott Pelley.

Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. Peter Daszak is a scientist whose work is helping in the search for a COVID-19 cure. So why did the president just cancel DOSAC's funding? It's the kind of politics which might seem ill-advised in a health crisis. President Trump is blaming China's government for the pandemic. The outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan. The administration has said at times the virus is man-made or that, if it's natural, it must have leaked out of a Chinese government lab. Both the White House and the Chinese Communist Party have been less than honest.

And so, in China and in the U.S., the work of scientists like Peter Daszak is being undercut by pandemic politics. Peter Daszak is a British-born American PhD who spent a career discovering dangerous viruses in wildlife, especially bats. In 2003 in Malaysia, he warned 60 Minutes a pandemic was coming. What worries me the most is that we're going to miss the next emerging disease, that we're going to suddenly find a SARS virus that moves from one part of the planet to another, wiping out people as it moves along.

In the 17 years since that prophecy, Peter Daszak became president of the New York-based EcoHealth Alliance. We're a non-profit research organization that focuses on understanding where the pandemics come from, what's the risk of future pandemics, and can we get in between this pandemic and the next one and disrupt it and stop it. In China, EcoHealth has worked for 15 years with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Together, they've catalogued hundreds of bat viruses, research that is critical right now. The breakthrough drug remdesivir that seems to have some impact on COVID-19 was actually tested against the viruses we've discovered under our NIH research funding.

And so that testing would not have been possible... No, it would not. ...if it hadn't been for the work that you did with the NIH grant. Correct. But his funding from the NIH, the U.S. National Institutes of Health, was killed two weeks ago by a political disinformation campaign targeting China's Wuhan Institute. Here's something remarkable and upsetting.

Congressman Matt Gaetz represents... On April 14th, Florida Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz claimed China's Wuhan Institute had, quote, birthed a monster. Gaetz is a vigorous defender of the president. He's been under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for allegedly threatening a witness against Mr. Trump. And he led a protest to delay impeachment testimony.

The NIH gives this $3.7 million grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. They then advertise that they need coronavirus researchers. Following that, coronavirus erupts in Wuhan. There never was a $3.7 million U.S. grant to the Wuhan lab. But the falsehood spread like a virus in the White House and without verification in the briefing room. There's also another report that the NIH, under the Obama administration in 2015, gave that lab $3.7 million in a grant. Why would the U.S. give a grant like that to China? The Obama administration gave them a grant of $3.7 million. I've been hearing about that. And we've instructed that if any grants are going to that area, we're looking at it literally about

an hour ago and also early in the morning. we will end that grant very quickly. That grant was to Peter Daszak's U.S.-based EcoHealth Alliance for disease prevention it does throughout the world. His work was considered so important that last year, the grant was reauthorized and increased by the Trump administration. This is evidence. Doshak had been spending about $100,000 a year collaborating with the Wuhan lab. I can't just show up in China and say, hi, I want to work on your viruses. I have to do this through the correct channels.

So what we do is we talk to NIH, and they approve the people we can work with in China. And that happened. And our collaboration with Wuhan was pre-approved by NIH. What is the theory of the work that you've done with the Wuhan lab? Well, the idea is that we know that viruses that affect people in pandemics tend to come from wildlife. So our strategy is to go to the wildlife source, find out where the viruses are, and try and shift behaviors like hunting and killing wildlife that would lead to the next outbreak. We also get the information into vaccine and drug developers so they can design better drugs. The Wuhan Institute is internationally respected. Two years ago,

a team from the U.S. Embassy visited. That team sent a cable to Washington concerned that one lab in the complex had a serious shortage of trained investigators. But the cable, first reported by the Washington Post, emphasized the Wuhan Institute is critical to future outbreak prediction and prevention. EcoHealth's work with Wuhan ended one week after Mr. Trump's briefing room pledge when the NIH revoked the grant. They gave you no reason? They said it was cancelled for convenience

and it doesn't fit within the scope of NIH's priorities right now. And yet it was a high priority when the grant was reissued in 2019. Yeah, it's definitely puzzling. I mean, this grant received an incredibly high priority score. It was in the top 3% of grants they reviewed, and that's unusual. I was shocked. I was really, really surprised. Maureen Miller is a Ph.D. epidemiologist at Columbia University who has collaborated with EcoHealth and Wuhan. It stops the research that's essential to understanding where pandemics like the one we're going through, where they start. How often are NIH grants terminated in this way? This is the first one I've ever heard of. When they terminate an NIH

grant, and it's not something that's usually taken lightly, it is for cause. There's fraud involved at some level. There is either manipulation of the data, you're putting your participants in harm's way, or your data are fraudulent. And none of those things have been alleged with eco-health? Absolutely not, none. The National Institutes of Health in its mission statement says it exemplifies the highest level of scientific integrity and public accountability. But it wouldn't tell us why the grant was canceled or whether anything like it had happened before. The NIH told us to direct questions about the origin of the virus to the Director of National Intelligence. The Chinese Communist Party has also blocked the truth.

In the earliest days, the doctor in Wuhan who discovered the outbreak was silenced by local officials. He later died of COVID-19. In February, the Chinese did allow a visit by an international team of experts, including American scientists. We are coordinating with the Chinese government and working closely together on the coronavirus outbreak in China. Initially, President Trump praised China. But in the following weeks, testing in the U.S. failed to catch up to the need. Vital equipment was short. Bodies filled refrigerated trailers.

And science was continuously challenged. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection? As the U.S. led the world in illness and death, the White House moved the focus to the Chinese government. That's where this began. Last Sunday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo attempted to resurrect a debunked theory that the virus was man-made in China. But the best experts so far seem to think it was man-made. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point. But he did have reason. Days before, the director of national intelligence said there was wide scientific consensus. The virus was not man-made. Your office of the DNI says the consensus,

the scientific consensus was not man-made or genetically modified. That's right. I agree with that. The same day Pompeo tried to have it both ways, President Trump repeated the theory of a Chinese lab accident. I think they made a horrible mistake, and they didn't want to admit it. The administration has offered no evidence of an accident or genetic engineering. Dr. Elodie Gaydeen is studying the genome of the virus in her lab at New York University.

People have been saying that's an engineered virus, and it's not. And we know that by looking at the genetic information, looking at the code, and the code tells you a lot. Human-engineered viruses have common and obvious genetic components, including the virus's overall molecular structure, called its backbone. If a virus had been engineered, it would have used the backbones that we know, and there's none of that in that virus.

And let's say it was a brand new backbone, well, it wouldn't look like what it's looking like, because we can find every piece of that virus, we can find these pieces in other very similar viruses that circulate in the wild. From the genetic information, it's clearly not an engineered virus. Elodie Gaydeen and most experts believe the virus, officially called SARS-CoV-2, passed from a wild animal into humans, perhaps in the wild animal market in Wuhan. Many early cases were traced to this market, and a market like it was where the SARS virus jumped into a human in 2003.

A lot of these coronaviruses are found in bats, but we haven't found the exact match. We did find a close match in pangolins. It's an anteater. It's a wildlife that's been traded. People, you know, will consume its meat, but they also use in Chinese medicine its scales. Is there a way to know that this virus, SARS-CoV-2, emerged from the wild into the human population, or has that not been proven yet? Well, I'm a scientist, and what I do is I look at the evidence around a hypothesis. There is a huge amount of evidence that these viruses repeatedly emerge into people from wild animals in rural areas through things like hunting and eating wildlife. There is zero evidence that this virus came out of a lab in China.

Does the Wuhan Institute of Virology, to your knowledge, have this virus in its inventory? No. Why do you say so? The closest known relative is one that's different enough that it is not SARS-CoV-2. So there's just no evidence that anybody had it in the lab anywhere in the world prior to the outbreak.

I've called on Secretary Azar to immediately halt this grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. They have not been honest, and at worst, they've been negligent to the point of many, many deaths throughout the world. Dishonest and negligent allegations have now ended EcoHealth's carefully reviewed research designed to stop pandemics. Representative Matt Gaetz wore a gas mask on the floor of the house to lampoon the crisis. This was back in the beginning of March,

weeks before masks were common. Peter Daszak, whose researchers wear masks to shield them from viruses in the wild, says his team is now facing layoffs. This politicization of science is really damaging. You know, the conspiracy theories out there have essentially closed down communication between scientists in China and scientists in the U.S. We need that communication

in an outbreak to learn from them how they controlled it so we can control it better. It's sad to say, but it will probably cost lives. By sort of narrow-mindedly focusing in on ourselves or on labs or on a certain cultural politics, we miss the real enemy. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life. But you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer,

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Learn more at Visa.ca slash FinTech. Amazon is the second largest private employer in the country, headed by the richest man on Earth. As the coronavirus pandemic has upended American life as we know it, many of us at home have relied on Amazon as a lifeline. Its workers have been called heroes. But the company has come under fire for the way it treats those workers on the front lines of delivery. In his latest earnings report a week and a half ago, Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos committed an additional $4 billion at least for COVID expenses, including more protections for his employees. He said it would require not just money, but invention and humility. Figuring out how to make this happen falls in great part

on the shoulders of Amazon's head of operations, Dave Clark. Amazon is seen as an essential service through this pandemic, but you have been very slow to install your workers' protections, and it's hurt your reputation. You've been seen as a company that puts profits ahead of people. I could not disagree more strongly with the premise that we're late to this party. I think quite to the contrary. I think we've been early on the curve to this to most employers, particularly major employers in the U.S. As head of operations at Amazon, Dave Clark is in charge of over a million people, a thousand buildings, and shipping your packages, all while keeping Amazon's workforce safe, whether it's employees

filling orders at the warehouse or drivers showing up at your front door. How many cases we got? But since March, some of those workers started staging protests, walkouts, and sick outs in New York, Minnesota. They feel the need to hide things from us. I am ashamed of my job. Detroit. We are people. We have people that love us.

And Chicago. We don't want to get anybody sick. The protesters want the company to only ship essential items to limit their potential exposure. They want hazard pay and better sick leave. So now Dave Clark is adding damage control to his portfolio. The site we're in today has over 1,500 employees that work here. We talked with him remotely as he took us on a tour of this warehouse near Seattle, showing us where some of the $800 million the company says it has spent on worker protections thus far has gone.

For example, they have installed thermal cameras in many of their locations to take employees' temperatures. That's all it took. They can take someone's temperature that fast? It can. They then take a mask. Go ahead and scan your badge, please. Next, a visit to an on-site testing lab. Amazon is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a way for employees to self-administer a coronavirus test using saliva or a nasal swab. I just open up my swab kit here. But this is still a work in progress.

Oh, dear. Yeah, the full nose tickle. Right now, the swab is sent off-site for analysis. And then you're all set and done. Results can take as long as five days. Right over here. This is the main work floor where items are sorted and boxed. We saw people in hazmat suits spraying surfaces with a misting disinfectant. And this goes on all day? Some sites this happens once a week, and some sites this occurs throughout the day, every day.

Is once a week enough? Again, it depends on the area. Amazon says it is now trying to enforce social distancing by videotaping all its employees and using artificial intelligence to study their movements. Clark says the company's extensive camera system is also being used for contact tracing in order to identify workers who came in contact with a sick colleague and send them into quarantine. In addition, these portable washing stations have been rolled in.

We've deployed these all across all of our sites. They have disinfecting soap, water, paper towels. Amazon also shared this video of something they're working on for the future, a robot that emits a certain type of UV light to kill the virus on surfaces. It could be used one day in warehouses and at Whole Foods, which is owned by Amazon. So here's a question of great interest to an awful lot of us. Are you worried that you might be transmitting coronavirus through your boxes, through cardboard or plastic? No, and we do not see a risk there for customers or employees. You have installed, by what you're saying, over 150 safety measures,

and yet COVID cases keep popping up. Now, why do you think that is? We see COVID cases popping up at roughly a rate generally just under what the actual community infection rates are, because our employees live and are part of those communities. So you're saying that if these new cases keep popping up, that it's not because they're getting it or spreading it in your facilities? That's correct. But employees have complained they're in jeopardy at the warehouses because social

distancing isn't always enforced. Throughout March and April, workers shared through texts and social media images of crowding on the work floor and in break rooms. Everybody's close to each other. Look, we're going to die. So how many positive cases have you discovered at Amazon? The actual sort of total number case isn't particularly useful because it's relative to the size of the building and then the overall community infection rates. So you don't know or you're just not going to tell us how many cases have been discovered? I don't. I mean, we know. I don't have the number right on me at this moment because it's not a particularly useful number.

But warehouse workers we spoke to would like to know. They say they aren't given enough information to assess their own risk. Amazon says it does notify all workers through texts and robocalls every time a specific warehouse has a confirmed case. Today we have learned of seven additional confirmed cases of COVID-19 at ADP1. But workers told us they don't feel these robocalls are useful because they don't tell all employees in which department or shift the sick person worked. And some of these buildings can fit 40 football fields in them. We want to let you know we have 11 additional confirmed cases of COVID-19 at ADP1 in the Hazleton region. Hazleton, Pennsylvania, is where we found the largest cluster of COVID-19 in the Amazon network.

Workers there tell us they've counted well over 70 cases in their warehouse, but they're petrified to complain for fear of losing their jobs. The whole community of Hazleton, a small town with a large working-class Hispanic population, has seen a spike of infections, partly due to the local Cargill meatpacking plant that had to close down for two weeks for sanitizing. Hazleton, Pennsylvania, your warehouse there seems to be a hot spot, a major hot spot. Why not shut down that facility and sanitize, sanitize that building? We sanitize that building 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We have misting crews in there every day. We have janitorial cleaning every day. Why the reluctance to shut down a plant when there

are many cases? I mean, this isn't just... It's not a reluctance. It's just not effective. If I believe that shutting down the plant was the answer to keeping our people safe, we would do it, but it's not. The CDC recommends that when a plant has a case, it should close down that worker's area and try to wait 24 hours before disinfecting. Calls for closing Amazon facilities for deep cleaning are being heard all around the country.

So you organized a protest on March 30th. What specifically were you asking for at that point? Simple demands. All we wanted was the building to be closed down and sanitized. Chris Smalls, an assistant manager in Staten Island, New York, was the first to organize a walkout in the United States. We are regular human beings. He says workers were getting sick and management not doing enough. Tell us what happened to you after the protest. I was terminated two hours later. You were fired? Yes, I was fired.

Are you the only Amazon employee who spoke up, protested, who's been fired? No, I'm not. There's been quite a few. We have encountered some fear among people at Amazon because they have seen that protest leaders have been fired just for complaining. Well, I can tell you we have a zero tolerance policy for retaliating against people or for any number of issues. I've been here 21 years and I've never seen anybody fired for complaining or raising a concern. Dave Clark says Chris Smalls was fired because

he violated the company's quarantine policy. But an internal memo leaked to Vice News describes Amazon's head lawyer, David Zapolsky, planning to discredit the protest movement by smearing Smalls. It's written right down in this document that you were going to go after him. Well, I think it's unfortunate his, you know, I think his frustration got the better of him in that comment. Well, the state of New York is looking into why he was fired. And there have been other protesters as well who've been fired. He's not the only one. We have a little list here.

Yeah, and again, I think if you go through each one of those individuals, what you're going to find is some sort of substantive policy violation or safety violation that occurred in the process. But a top Amazon engineer quit last week, writing in a blog that the protesters are whistleblowers and firing them is, quote, evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture. And on Wednesday, nine senators called on Amazon to clarify these terminations. Well, I think there's been some commentary that you are beginning to build a labor movement and that that's at the heart of this. This is your main goal. Is that fair?

Wasn't my main goal, but now it is. Now it is. Yeah, it is. A union agitator, you know. Hey, I understand, but it's necessary. If they're not going to take care of their employees, somebody has to. Chris Smalls and others are calling on Amazon to extend benefits during the pandemic, like more generous sick leave and extra pay. Many of your workers are putting their health in jeopardy, and a lot of people see them as heroes. Don't they deserve hazard pay? This is hazardous.

I see them as heroes, too. they deserve hazard pay? This is hazardous. I see them as heroes too. And we have put in place, we're paying $2 extra an hour, paying double time for overtime. The $2 raise and more for overtime is set to expire on May 16th. Are you going to let it expire or are you going to extend it? There's no decision been made at this point whether to end May 16th or continue. He says that every day there are big decisions like this he has to make as head of operations to keep the packages coming and address the criticism. If anybody walked into this with a perfect playbook for how to execute, continuing to send essential goods to people in the middle of a pandemic, I'd love to see it.

Do I wish we were perfect from day one? Of course. Do I feel like we put people in unnecessary risk? No. As the coronavirus pandemic sweeps through the country, panic and fear have caused a run on hand sanitizer, toilet paper, and guns. Retailers tell us they have never seen such a surge in firearm sales. One kind of weapon that has been selling out is a build-it-yourself firearm known as a ghost gun because it skirts most federal gun laws. There's no background check and no serial number, making ghost guns invisible to police

and almost impossible to trace when used in a crime. We were surprised that it is all perfectly legal. After a year and a half of reporting, we discovered that ghost guns, once mainly popular with gun enthusiasts, have also become a weapon of reporting, we discovered that ghost guns, once mainly popular with gun enthusiasts, have also become a weapon of choice for criminals, manufactured by gangs and used in mass shootings. So this is ATF's firearms reference library. We sought out America's top gun cops, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, the ATF, to find out

exactly what a ghost gun is. Thomas Chittum, ATF's assistant director of field operations, gave us rare access to its West Virginia weapons repository and told us the latest additions here are ghost guns. What's the difference between these two guns? Well, this is a firearm that was manufactured by a licensed manufacturer. The law requires them to mark them with certain markings, including a serial number. This is not marked. No background check is completed when you purchase it. It's made at home by somebody using commonly available handles. So they both do the same thing?

They both shoot. As Chittum says, usually if you bought a gun at a store, it would have a traceable serial number and you would need to pass a background check under federal law. A ghost gun can circumvent all of that because it's put together from unfinished, untraceable parts. It's virtually invisible to you in government. It also makes it challenging to keep it out of the hands of people who are not allowed to possess firearms. Up to that day, I never heard the term ghost gun. I didn't even know what that was. Brian Muehlberger found out one day last November.

There had been a mass shooting at his daughter's high school and 15-year-old Gracie was murdered. They bring in one of the head doctors, and just like you see on the movies, he sits across from you with that real quiet, kind of solemn stare right at you. And I just remember saying, you know, like, please, no. Don't tell me the bad news, please.

This was the aftermath at Saugus High School in Santa Clarita, California. A typical Thursday morning disrupted. The quad littered with backpacks after students dropped everything and fled for their lives. That's where Gracie was waiting for friends before class. She was about as close as I am to you right now. Shot her right through the backpack and right through her chest. And thankfully, he didn't aim at the back of her head. You know, at least we got to see her face one more time. This senseless act of violence.

Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva arrived at the scene not long after the shots were fired. This kid shows up at school. What happened? He shows up at school. He has a backpack. His mom had had packed the lunch for him in the the backpack was also a.45 auto. It was loaded. Carrying that loaded ghost gun was Nathaniel Burhow, a high school junior. In addition to Gracie, he shot and killed Dominic Blackwell and wounded three other students.

He saved the last round for himself. He was 16 years old. Mm-hmm. Just turned, that was his birthday. How does a 16-year-old get his hands on a gun? He's underage. Underage, but his father was a gun enthusiast and was in possession of a lot of weapons. They were ultimately confiscated because he was detained for psychiatric evaluation. So he, the father, was not supposed to have guns. And all the weapons were removed legally at the time. Sheriff Villanueva suspects that's when the father turned to ghost guns

and his son got his hands on one. Six months later, the Saugus investigation is still ongoing. This is the actual weapon that was used in the Saugus shooting. It is a ghost gun. It was assembled. We don't know by who, but we believe it was the father of the suspect, and it came into possession then of the shooter himself. Ghost gun parts can be used to fabricate a handgun or even an AR-15. The parts are widely available across the country in stores and online. In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, they have been flying off the shelves.

They're shipped right to your door, not much harder than ordering a pizza. We bought a kit online for $575 that has everything you need to make a 9-millimeter handgun. It came in parts like IKEA furniture, but for firearms, and even includes the drill bits you need to put the gun together in the comfort of your own home. Why is it so easy to buy? Because federal gun law only regulates this part, called a frame or a lower receiver. But until you drill out these holes and file down this bit here, in the eyes of federal law, it's just a hunk of metal, or in this case, plastic. What you do is you get your lower here.

YouTube videos will show you step by step how to turn that piece of plastic or metal into a gun. So if I can do this, anybody can do this. So you have pretty much this open season. Anyone who is a prohibited person that wants to arm themselves now has a very easy way to do it. But if you're a felon or judged mentally unfit, for example, federal law says you're not supposed to have any kind of firearm. Build a ghost gun?

No one knows you have it. These are all ghost guns? Everything. Build a ghost gun, no one knows you have it. These are all ghost guns? Everything here is a ghost gun. Ironically, California has some of the strictest state gun laws in the U.S., and yet it's the epicenter of this growing problem. Where on your list of worries do these ghost guns fall? Well, along with terrorism, active shooter, this is way up there on the list. Villanueva oversees the largest sheriff's office in the country,

and he says over the last year, the number of ghost guns turning up in L.A. County investigations has jumped by 50 percent. Domestic assault, assault with a deadly weapon, distribution of child pornography, possession of child pornography, armed with a ghost gun. Domestic violence, domestic violence, assault with a deadly weapon, drug deal. It's an epidemic that has blindsided police across the country. Without a serial number or paperwork, ghost guns are very difficult for law enforcement to trace or track. Which is why Thomas Chittum and the ATF are struggling to get a handle on the problem. How many of these guns are on the streets? You have no idea? No, I have no idea.

And how many crimes are being committed by these guns? You have no idea? Well, not with precision. They still represent a minority of the firearms that are being used in crimes, but we do see that they're increasing significantly and rapidly. So you have no idea how many guns are out there, and you don't know who has them? Right. Here's what our reporting found. Contacting local and national law enforcement over the course of a year and a half,

at least 38 states and Washington, D.C., have seen criminal cases involving ghost guns. There were at least four mass shootings. Drop that gun! Violent police shootouts. High-profile busts of gangs making and selling ghost guns on the street, and cases involving terrorism and white supremacists. But Demetrius Karras says that's not his clientele at all. You can get the whole gun out the door for about $5.50.

He is a former Marine and one of the first to get into the business of selling ghost gun parts in California 10 years ago. Between 300 and 500,000 individual units have passed through my hands. Over what period of time? The last 10 years. Sounds like a lot to me. That's just from your store? That's just from what I've been involved in. There's a lot of companies that are now in this industry, and there are multiple millions of these things that have been created throughout the country at this point. So who is buying these kits? It's guys in hard hats. It's also the people who like to work with their hands and do this sort of thing anyway.

I'd say hogwash to that entire idea. Hogwash? Hogwash. Absolute hogwash. The only people that are interested in that are not enthusiasts into, you know, tinkering around with machines. Hobbyists? No, they're not hobbyists. These are people that should never have a firearm, and that's how they found a way to get one. Karras insists the store where he now works, which touts just how invisible their ghost gun parts are. That thing is cool. I really like it. Has safeguards to prevent ghost gun parts from getting into the wrong hands. And what are they?

I'm not going to get too much into it because it would undermine our ability to use them. Do you ever worry that someone who's buying one of these kits might have mental illness or be planning to use an AR-15 for something that's horrible, unimaginable. Does the car salesman worry that someone might take a car that they've sold to them and drive it through a crowd of people? So you see them as the same? I do. Karis's home state, California, is phasing in a law to regulate

ghost gun parts like regular firearms. Three other states and the District of Columbia have passed their own restrictions. But Villanueva says that's not enough. We need national laws, federal, from Congress that covers a total ban on the creation or the selling of these ghost gun kits. State by state is not going to do it? It doesn't because then you can just defeat it by going to another state. Hey, what's up, dude? In today's political climate, new federal gun control measures seem unlikely. You're all set, man.

Thanks a lot, dude. So that leaves it to the ATF to determine what is and is not a gun. Currently, ATF says this is not a gun. But the ATF has changed its thinking on similar issues recently. After the 2017 massacre in Las Vegas, the ATF and the Department of Justice banned bump stocks, an accessory that turns semi-automatic weapons into machine guns. Former acting director of the ATF, Thomas Brandon, helped implement that change and was ready to recommend to his bosses at the Department of Justice that they reclassify certain ghost gun

kits, like the one we ordered, as firearms because of how easy they are to put together. You were alarmed at what you were seeing? Yeah. And so I said, well, right now we have a public safety concern. You thought that the ATF should reclassify these kits as firearms? Yes, as the head of the agency at the time. I said, I'm going to do everything I can for public safety with my team. If you want to buy a kit and make your own gun, it's just going to have a serial number on it. Thomas Brandon retired last spring before any action was taken.

We asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives if there was any follow-up on Brandon's plans and were told, quote, ATF routinely reviews our practices, procedures, and determinations. However, it would be inappropriate to comment on internal discussions. Thomas Chittum says the ATF is doing everything it can. Is this just one of those political hot potatoes that nobody wants to touch? Well, gun law is one of the most divisive topics in America, and ATF sometimes finds itself in the middle. As for Saugus, it was the first high school mass shooting with a ghost gun. Brian Muehlberger, a pistol owner himself,

says if something isn't done about ghost guns, it won't be the last. I'm not against owning guns, but I also believe strongly that this is a serious problem that's occurring that no one knew about. So I just feel like something needs to be done. It's just, it's become too easy. mothers wear many hats even in normal times more than 70 percent with kids at home hold down outside jobs while serving as nurturer in chief in this age of pandemic mothers have become surrogate school teachers supervising virtual classrooms, entertainment directors booking FaceTime play dates, supply sergeants ordering online. They have become dorm directors and office managers allocating workspace in once empty nests to 20-somethings returned from college or newly unemployed. They are term paper proofreaders and backyard barbers, and they reassure discouraged offspring that this too shall pass. Moms wear more hats than we can describe, and on this Mother's

Day in particular, our hats are off to them. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.