60 Minutes - 5/31/2015: The Cleveland Division, Water, Who is Larry David?

Episode Date: June 1, 2015

Bill Whitaker reports from the Cleveland PD on the hot-button issue of policing in America; Lesley Stahl reports on depleting groundwater; and a hilarious and revealing interview with TV and comedy star Larry David. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Chief Calvin Williams is trying to reform his police force while working in one of America's most violent cities. You've got a predominantly black city and a majority white police force. Does that need to change? If you come from the premise that, you know, only an African American can police other African Americans, then we're all doomed to failure. It's getting harder and harder for the world to meet the demand for fresh water. So as you'll see tonight, more and more of it is being pumped from deep underground. Are you and are the farmers worried that by going that deep you are depleting the groundwater? Well, yes, we are depleting it.

But on the other hand, what choice do you have? What's the result of all this drilling? That's our story tonight. That's alarming. It should be. This is what everybody that is watching this wants to know. Yeah. Who is Larry David?

This guy, he's too much. Who is Larry David? Ah, this guy. He's too much. Who is Larry David? You are too much, Mr. Rose. Why? Huh? Why? You're probing.

What is the probe? Because we want to know who you are. I'm a jerk. That's who I am. Let's stop talking about me. That's why I didn't want to do this interview in the first place. I had to be talked into 60 minutes. You think I wanted to do this?

I didn't want to do it because I knew I'd be UDSing questions like this. I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Morley Safer. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Charlie Rose. I'm Scott Pelley.

Those stories on 60 Minutes. On Tuesday, the Department of Justice and the Cleveland Division of Police agreed on a plan to reform the city's police force. It's an effort to rein in excessive use of force and repair the damaged relationship between the department and the community it serves. The news comes after a year of crisis for law enforcement in America. The fragile trust between cops and many inner city residents has been broken by the deaths of unarmed black men in encounters with police in Ferguson, New York City, North Charleston, and most recently Baltimore. As we first reported in January, tensions reached a critical stage in Cleveland when a city cop killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice as he played in a park with a toy gun. Now it's up to the city's chief of police, Calvin Williams, to calm the outrage and reform a

department in one of the most violent cities in America. Are there bad guys within the police department? Of course there are. And it's my job to make sure we weed out the bad people from this division and that we nurture and grow and support the good officers that are out there. Hang tight for a second. Why don't you guys sit in the car and let me talk to the commander. All right. Okay. Chief Calvin Williams has been a cop in Cleveland for 29 years. He's faced one crisis after another since assuming command last year. No incident in Cleveland has been more horrifying than the killing of Tamir Rice. Security camera video captured Rice playing with a pellet gun. The police pulled up and within two

seconds an officer shot the boy. On the left you see Tamir's 14-year-old sister being tackled by police as she rushed to her dying brother. The police ride up, and almost even before the door is open, the 12-year-old boy is shot. A 12-year-old boy lost his life, period. And what makes it even more difficult for me, not just as a person that lives in the city, but as a chief, is that that happened at the hands of a police officer. The rookie officer who killed Rice was hired by the Cleveland PD, even though another police department had found him emotionally unfit and forced him to resign. How did he get hired by the Cleveland Police Department?

Those are things that are under investigation, that we're definitely taking a second, a third, and a fourth look at. How did he slip through? We know some of the things that happened in that process, and we're, even at this moment, changing the way some of that is done. Prosecutors are investigating the Rice case. Protests against and in support of police have continued in Cleveland ever since the shooting. You've got a predominantly black city and a majority white police force. Does that need to change? Diversity is always, always at the forefront of what I'm trying to do in this city. But if you come from the premise that, you know-American can police other African-Americans, then we're all doomed to failure.

You've heard about the talk that many African-American families have with their young sons to watch out when they have an encounter with the police. Is that unnecessary? Well, Bill, I don't want to minimize that because I know that happens a lot in minority communities. I can say from a personal standpoint, you know, I have a 24-year-old son and I've never had that talk with him. You know, I expect him to be respectful and to act properly no matter who he's encountering, whether it's a police officer or a news anchor person. Is there something that happens in this country between African Americans

or minorities and law enforcement? Yes, it does happen. The city asked the U.S. Justice Department in 2013 to investigate the Cleveland PD after more than 100 police officers joined a high-speed chase and fired 137 times at this car, killing two unarmed people inside. Police mistook their car backfire for gunshots. The Justice Department report found a pattern of unnecessary and excessive use of deadly force, and it described an us-against-them mentality between the police and the community. What's more, some suspects were beaten, pepper-sprayed, and tasered, even after they were already in custody. The report found a pattern of excessive use of force.

You disagree with that? Yes, I do. The report found that it was systemic within the division. You disagree with that? Yes, I do. What do you agree with? I agree that there are some issues within the Cleveland Division of Police as they pertain to use of force, as they pertain to reporting

and community issues. And we are working diligently, both with the Department of Justice and with the community, to make sure that we correct those things. There's a memorial here at the spot where 12-year-old Tamir Rice was shot. But this park is hallowed ground for police officers as well. Less than 100 yards away are memorials to two officers killed in the line of duty. One was murdered by a drug dealer, another by a rape suspect. When it comes to pain in Cleveland, there's not much distance between the people and police. Six Cleveland cops have been killed in the last 20 years. Danger and stress take their toll. A police officer's life expectancy here and around the

country is 10 years shorter than the average American. Officers Shane Bayhoff and Eric Newton patrol Cleveland's 4th District. We just wanted to make sure everything was okay. The most dangerous beat in the city. They told us about a struggle with a drunk suspect who tried to grab Newton's gun. There's safeguards to keep it from just coming straight out, but, I mean, you can hear that, and I can feel it tugging on my hip. He's trying to pull it out. With both hands.

Were you scared? That had to be frightening. It's terrifying. You're keenly aware of what the consequences are if he is successful in doing that. Does it still haunt you? I don't think I'd use the word haunt. I find myself thinking about it now every time I talk to somebody. They have been partners for six years and have never wanted to work in any other neighborhood. I don't live here, but this is my community.

A lot of times on a busy week, I spend more time here than with my own family at home. It's not me against them. I'm out here protecting. The murder rate in Cleveland last year was higher than in Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles. 103 people were killed in Cleveland, 42 in this neighborhood. This day, the wind chill was 20 below zero. But Newton and Bayhoff kept the car window open so they can hear gunfire. This is the most dangerous area?

One of. I can tell you that there are some individuals in the community who do scare me a gunfire. This is the most dangerous area? One of. I can tell you that there are some individuals in the community who do scare me a great deal, given the types of things that they've done in the past and, you know, the arrests that we've made involving them. Yeah, I mean, they scare me. If an officer comes out here and says he's not scared of anything, he's a liar. How do you protect and serve people you're afraid of? You know, if you look at things that have happened around the country, both to other people and the police officers,

you know, some of that fear is warranted because there are people out there that mean harm to police officers. One of the problems exposed in the Justice Department report was how the Cleveland police improperly deal with the mentally ill. Tanisha Anderson had a history of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Last November, she was disoriented and outside in the cold wearing a nightgown. Her brother, Joel her mother Cassandra called for an ambulance. Two police officers responded instead. She was treated like a criminal instead of a human being that had a right to get some help.

The family and the cops agreed that Tanisha needed to go to the hospital. But when police moved to put her in the squad car, her brother saw her panic. How was she behaving? She was just holding on to the car doors. Not allowing them to push her in? That's all she was doing, just holding on to the car doors. I've never seen so much force from a big hand crunched down on somebody's head like that, just constantly, constantly trying to get her in the car. And I'm like, what is going on? Is she a criminal or what? And the big cop, he slammed my sister.

Slammed her? He snatched her off the car, the inside of the police car, and he slammed her. To the ground? To the ground. I never will forget that. The officers say that Tanisha was kicking at them and resisting them. That's absolutely untrue. I was there, I know.

The family says one officer put his knee in her back as he cuffed her face down on the sidewalk. She stopped moving. They waited 20 minutes for an ambulance. She was pronounced dead at the hospital. Tanisha Anderson was 37. The medical examiner ruled her death a homicide. The Anderson family is suing Cleveland and has demanded all officers be trained to deal with the mentally ill. It's another incident that we definitely

feel sorry that it happened, period. Do your officers have training in how to deal with the mentally ill? Yes, some of our officers do. We have approximately close to 450 officers that are trained in crisis intervention. 450 out of how many? Out of approximately 900 that are in patrol. The agencies that were in place, I'd say 10 years ago, to handle things with the families, to handle things with mental illness, to handle things with addiction, aren't there anymore. People call 911. We have to respond. to handle things with mental illness, to handle things with addiction, aren't there anymore. People call 911. We have to respond. The department received a staggering 400,000 calls for assistance last year,

more than one call per resident. Mike, what's going on? Chief Williams says he wants his officers to stop responding to so many non-emergency calls and instead get out of their squad cars and get to know the community. But it can be uncomfortable for police, which is exactly what we saw when we asked officers Newton and Bayhoff to meet with some of the people they serve at this community center. What is the perception of the police? In this neighborhood, it's not that good. Some people get that badge on their chest and they think they become Superman. They got a right to take on the world. How do you differentiate

these kids from the ones you call the bad guys? One of the things is probably a smile and a wave and how you doing officer? Instead of spitting. Why do you think they would spit at you? Not everyone likes the police. It seems like every time a young black man is involved, they shoot first, ask questions later. Me and my partner have arrested hundreds of gun arrests. Neither one of us have ever fired a gun at anybody. Eric, you've been kind of quiet here. I'm not listening.

What do you hear? More communication. I've never encountered a situation that couldn't benefit from more communication. The Justice Department is insisting on reforms, including new rules on the use of deadly force and faster ways to discipline bad cops. Unfortunately, it takes time. You know, I, for one, would love to be able to wave my magic wand and have this change tonight. Morning.

After spending four days with Chief Williams, you get the sense that he's disgusted, even furious, that the actions of some of his officers have so badly damaged the reputation of the department he's risked his own life for. I've had people actually trying to take my life on four separate occasions, and I survived that. I can give you a whole list of officers attacked with deadly weapons that survive and don't end up using deadly force against that person. What's at stake here for Cleveland that person. What's at stake here? Everything. For Cleveland? Everything. Everything's at stake. I mean, I talk to people every day that say, we support you and we know you have a difficult job to do with the Division of Police,

but we know in the end, this police department will be better. And if that's not the case at the end of this, then I failed at my job, and I hate to fail. The investigation into the shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice is still not complete more than six months after he was killed by a Cleveland cop. The Rice family says the boy's remains still have not been buried because another forensic examination could be necessary. Sometimes historic events suck. still have not been buried because another forensic examination could be necessary. of America, decade by decade. Right now, I'm digging into the history of incredible infrastructure projects of the 1930s, including the Hoover Dam, the Empire State Building, the Golden Gate Bridge,

and more. The promise is in the title, History That Doesn't Suck, available on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Last fall, we brought you a story about something that has made headlines ever since, water. It's been said that the wars of the 21st century may well be fought over water. The Earth's population has more than doubled over the last 50 years, and the demand for fresh water to drink and to grow food has surged along with it.

But sources of water, like rainfall, rivers, streams, reservoirs, certainly haven't doubled. So where is all that extra water coming from? More and more, it's being pumped out of the ground. Water experts say groundwater is like a savings account, something you draw on in times of need. But savings accounts need to be replenished. And there is new evidence that so much water is being taken out, much of the world is in danger of a groundwater overdraft. California is now in its fourth year of a record-breaking drought.

This past winter was the hottest and driest since the state started keeping written records. And yet, pay a visit to California's Central Valley, and out of that parched land, you'll see acre upon acre of corn, almond trees, pomegranates, tomatoes, grapes, and what makes them all possible, water. Where do you get water in a drought? You take it out of the savings account, groundwater. We're talking about surface water, we're talking about lakes and rivers, okay? We're talking about groundwater, we're really talking about water below the water table. Jay Famiglietti, an earth sciences professor at the University of California, Irvine,

is a leading expert on groundwater. It's like a sponge. It's like an underground sponge. He's talking about the aquifers where groundwater is stored. Layers of soil and rock, as he showed us in this simple graphic, that are saturated with water and can be drilled into, like the three wells shown here. You can actually pump it out of the crevices. Imagine like trying to put a straw into a sponge. You can actually suck water out of a sponge. It's a very similar process. Sucking the water out of those aquifers is big business these days in the Central Valley. Well driller Steve Arthur is a very busy man. All the farmers, they don't have no surface water.

They've got to keep these crops alive. The only way to do that is to drill wells, pump the water from the ground. So it's either drill or go out of business. Yes. So there's something of a groundwater rush going on here. Arthur's seven rigs are in constant use, and his waiting list is well over a year. And because some wells here are running dry, he's having to drill twice as deep as he did just a year or two ago.

This well will cost the farmer a quarter of a million dollars and go down 1,200 feet, about the height of the Empire State Building. Are you and are the farmers worried that by going that deep, you are depleting the groundwater? Well, yes, we are depleting it, but on the other hand,

what choice do you have? This is the most fertile valley in the world. You can grow anything you want here. If we don't have water to grow something, it's going to be a desert. He said many farmers think the problem is cyclical and that once the drought ends, things will be okay. Now when they take water out and it rains, doesn't the water go back down there? These aquifers near the surface, they can sometimes be replenished very quickly.

If we're talking about a deeper aquifer, that could take tens or hundreds of years to recharge. Figuring out how much is being depleted from those aquifers deep underground isn't easy. Hydrologist Claudia Font took us to what looked like someone's backyard shed, where she and her colleagues at the U.S. Geological Survey monitor groundwater levels in the Central Valley the way they always have, by dropping a sensor down a monitoring well. So this is a well? This is a well. We have a tape here that has a sensor on the end. Oh, let me see.

The Geological Survey has 20,000 wells like this across the country. It's a tape measure. It's a tape measure. How will you know when it's hit water? It's going to beep. By comparing measurements from different wells over time, they get the best picture they can of where groundwater levels stand.

She unspooled and unspooled until finally... Oh! It startled me, as did the result, a five-foot drop in just one month. Right now, we're reaching water levels that are at historic lows. Historic lows. Right. At this site, water levels have dropped about 200 feet

in the last few years. Gathering data from holes in the ground like this has been the only way to get a handle on groundwater depletion. That is, until 2002 and the launch of an experimental NASA satellite called GRACE. What does GRACE stand for? So GRACE stands for Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment. Mike Watkins is head of the science division at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. He was the mission manager for the latest Mars rover mission, and he is the project scientist for GRACE.

So the way GRACE works is it's two satellites. Two? They're actually measuring each other's orbit very, very accurately. What affects that orbit is gravity. As the first one comes up on some extra mass, an area of higher gravity, it gets pulled away from the second spacecraft. And that's where water comes in. Since water has mass, it affects the pull of gravity. So after the first gray satellite approaches an area that's had lots of heavy rain, for example,

and is pulled ahead, the second one gets there, feels the pull, and catches up. The instruments are constantly measuring the distance between the two. Their changes in separation, their changes in their orbit, are a little different this month than last month because water moved around and it changed the gravity field just enough. So GRACE can tell whether an area has gained water weight or lost it. So GRACE is like a big scale in the sky. Absolutely. GRACE can also tell how much water an area has gained or lost.

Scientists can then subtract out the amount of rain and snowfall, and what's left are the changes in groundwater. It's kind of brilliant to think that a satellite in the sky is measuring groundwater. It is fantastic. I thought it was complete nonsense. There's no way we can see groundwater from space. Jay Famiglietti started out a skeptic, but that was before he began analyzing the data Grace sent back. The first place he looked was India.

He showed us a time-lapse animation of the changes Grace detected there over the last 12 years. Note the dates on the lower right. The redder it gets, the greater the loss of water. Oh, look at that. He calculated that more than half the loss was due to groundwater depletion.

And this is a huge agricultural region. Have they been doing the same kind of pumping that we're seeing in California? Yes, yes. It got so dark red. Yeah, that's bad. His India findings were published in the journal Nature. But as he showed us, India wasn't the only red spot on the GRACE map. So this is right outside Beijing, Bangladesh, and then across southern Asia. He noticed a pattern. They are almost exclusively located over the major aquifers

of the world, and those are also our big food producing regions. So we're talking about groundwater depletion in the aquifers that supply irrigation water to grow the world's food. If that isn't worrisome enough, some of those aquifer systems are in volatile regions. For instance, this one that is shared by Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Turkey's built a bunch of dams, stored a bunch of water upstream. That forces the downstream neighbors to use more groundwater, and their groundwater's being depleted.

We're seeing this water loss spread literally across Iran, Iraq, and into Syria. It's progressive. Famo Yeti, who's now moved to the Jet Propulsion Lab to work on GRACE, has started traveling around the world trying to alert governments and academics to the problem, and he isn't the only one who's worried. A 2012 report from the Director of National Intelligence warned that within 10 years, many countries important to the United States will experience water problems that will risk instability and state failure, and cited the possible use of water as a weapon or to further terrorist objectives. Water is the new oil. It's true. It's headed in that direction.

And what about our own food-producing regions, like California's Central Valley, which produces 25% of the nation's food? What is Grace telling us there? 2008. Right. And now things are going to start to get very red. Grace is confirming what the Geological Survey well measures have shown, but giving a broader and more frightening picture,

since it shows that the rainy years are not making up for the losses. 14. Dark red. That's alarming. It should be. So much groundwater has been pumped out here that the geological survey says it's causing another problem. Parts of the valley are literally sinking. It's called subsidence. So the ground basically collapses or compresses down and the land sinks. The land is sinking down.

She said at this spot, the ground is dropping several inches a year. And north of here, it's more like a foot per year. That sounds like a lot. A foot a year. It's some of the fastest rates we have ever seen in the valley and in the world. She says it's caused damage to infrastructure, buckles and canals, and sinking bridges. Here, the land has sunk six feet. It used to be level with the top of this concrete slab.

And this is because of the pumping of the groundwater? Yes. Is there any limit on a farmer as to how much he can actually take out of this groundwater? Not right now in the state of California. None. As long as you put it to a beneficial use, you can take as much as you want.

But what's beneficial to you may not be beneficial to your neighbor. When you dig a well like this, are you taking water from the next farm? I would say, yeah, we're taking water from everybody. Well, was that neighbor going to be unhappy? No, everybody knows that there's a water problem. Everybody knows you've got to drill deeper, deeper. It's funny you say that because we're actually going to drill a well for that farmer next door also. Making things worse, farmers have actually been planting what are known as thirsty crops. We saw orchard after orchard of almond trees. Almonds draw big profits, but they need water all year long, and farmers can never let fields go fallow

or the trees will die. But with all the water depletion here, we did find one place that is pumping water back into its aquifer. Look, it really looks ickier up close. We took a ride with Mike Marcus, general manager of the Orange County Water District, and a program some call Toilet to Tap. They take 96 million gallons a day of treated wastewater from a county sanitation plant,

and yes, that includes sewage, and in effect recycle it. He says in 45 minutes, this sewage. And in effect, recycle it. He says in 45 minutes, this sewage water will be drinkable. You'll love it. You think I'm going to drink that water? Yes, you will. They put the wastewater through an elaborate three-step process. Suck it through microscopic filters, force it through membranes, blast it with UV light. By the end, Marcus insists,

it's purer than the water we drink. But it doesn't go straight to the tap. They send it to this basin and then use it to replenish the groundwater. It's amazing. Because of recycling of sewage water, they've been able to arrest that decline in the groundwater. All right, I'm going to do it. All that was left was to try it. To tell the truth, it wasn't bad. I can't believe how brave I am. Forty-five minutes ago, this was sewer water. And now it's drinkable.

He says it's a great model for big cities around the country, but it's not the answer for areas like the Central Valley, which is sparsely populated and therefore doesn't produce enough waste. So at least for now, it's continuing withdrawals from that savings account. Will there be a time when there is zero water in the aquifer for people in California? Unless we take action, yes. California has taken several actions. Last month, Governor Brown mandated a 25% cut in water use by homes and businesses.

And the state also enacted a law that for the first time takes steps toward regulating groundwater. But the law could take 25 years to fully implement. For the last three months, one of the hottest tickets on Broadway has been a comedy called Fish in the Dark, written by and starring Larry David. He's famous for playing a crusty curmudgeon on the television show Curb Your Enthusiasm and for being the co-creator of Seinfeld, where a lot of the jokes came from real-life Larry David experiences. Now he's playing another character that walks and talks like Larry David. As you'll see, with actors and comedians,

you never quite know where the act stops and the real person begins. David's friends, for instance, say he's a sweetheart. But as we first told you in March, he says that's just an act, the nice guy act. Who is he? That's what we wanted to find out. This is what everybody that is watching this wants to know. Yeah. Who is Larry David? This guy, he's too much. Larry David, you are too much, Mr. Rose. Why? Why? You're probing. What is the probe? Because we want to know who you are. I mean, who the hell knows? I don't know. Well, you do know whatever you see. No, I am. Really? No, it's not true. You told me you created a character. It's not you. It's who you might want to be, but are who I am. Really? No, it's not true. You told me you created a character. It's not you.

It's who you might want to be but are not. Who are you? I'm a jerk. That's who I am. You're not. That's an act. I'm like everybody else. I'm a jerk. No, that's an act. No, it isn't. It really isn't.

No. How are you a jerk? Oh, look, let's stop talking about me. That's why I didn't want to do this interview in the first place. I had to be talked into 60 minutes. You think I wanted to do this? I didn't want to do it because I knew I'd be asking questions like this. Then why did you do it? They talked me into it just like they talked me into the play. Oh, so you're a guy that you can be talked into things. Yes. Hence the jerk.

You have no backbone. You have no capacity to say no. No. But the guy that you create would be able to say no. There you go. And there's your biggest hang up. You can't say no, but you can create a character that can say no. You're not a jerk, but you can create a character that's a jerk because you don't have the courage to be a jerk. That's perfect. That's good. That's good. I like that. How much you charge? Huh? That's better than any therapy I ever got. Whoever he is, Larry David attracts hardcore fans who will wait for hours in bone-cracking cold for a stage-door glimpse of their hero.

Look at you. You're all prepared, huh? All right. Bye! Before the play opened in March, advance ticket sales set a $15 million record, with the best seats priced at $425 each. So here we are backstage. David is a very fit 67 years old, and being the star of the show... My own pants, my own jacket, my own shirt.

He insisted on bringing his own clothes for comfort's sake. It takes me a while to acclimate to new clothing. I don't know about you. Mama, you crazy? Fish in the Dark is a dark comedy about family dysfunction in typical Larry David style. After his father's death, Norman Drexel, David's character, fights with his mother, his brother, his wife, and the housekeeper over just about everything. Well, it's not about me, but the character is very similar to me. Okay, it's me. Yeah.

That was a wonderful, wonderful eulogy. Sometimes his characters are so similar to the man, it's easy to get confused. Larry? Larry! It's you. Oh, hey! On the HBO show Curb Your Enthusiasm, his character was actually named Larry David. He was politically incorrect, a bit of a jerk, and an equal opportunity offender. Let me ask you this question.

Yeah. Have you noticed if she has any proclivity for chopsticks? Well, if that's not that, what is that? David and Jerry Seinfeld created one of the most successful sitcoms ever. And by his own admission, the character closest to David's heart was the Wile E. Weasel, George Costanza. I'm going to slip him a Mickey. It's not about where he can go to get things. We asked the play's director, Anna Shapiro, about the many faces of Larry David. Here's a guy who says he doesn't consider himself an actor, doesn't want to be an actor, has created two characters that he says are him, and now he's going to play a character

who he says is him. He's a liar. He's just lying. All those things, none of those things are true. He is an actor. They aren't him. And he's actually a pretty good actor. And he's clearly interested in acting.

You're talking normal again. Because you don't do a play if you're not interested in acting. It's a very, very weird way. It's a kind of long way around to get a laugh. So I don't think it's true. I think he's acting his head off. Larry, you belong with us. And acting is a very different animal from improvisation,

making it up as you go along, which was the essence of his TV show, Curb Your Enthusiasm. Was that your dad's doctor? Here, he's got to stick to the script. Did you tip him? And remember it. Tip him? Is the acting, does it worry you?

Did you have trepidation about being able to do it? It's not one of the great understatements of the century. Yeah. What, forget your lines, not know how to move? All of it. All of it. Yes. Everything. Oh, boy. lines, not know how to move? All of it. All of it, yes. Everything.

Oh, boy. Right on it. Oh. It is a million miles from Broadway to Brooklyn and the apartment building where he grew up. He hadn't set foot in the place in half a century. This was my apartment. This is where I grew up. Okay.

In one age? This is where my aunt and uncle and cousins grew up. The current residents, the Galinskis, invited us in. Look at the size of our kitchen. This is the point in most profiles where the subject is usually flooded with warm, nostalgic memories. We'll curb your enthusiasm. Motions? Not much. No, nothing. You moved on. A place where your lovely, wonderful, loving mother raised you, where she made you along with your father. Yeah, I feel nothing. Gave you the confidence to go out and be what you became. Oh, sure. Yes. Don't you feel that? No, no. Let them touch you. No, I'm completely devoid. What kind of heart do you have? I'm

completely devoid of any feelings whatsoever at this moment. The David apartment was a lot like Seinfeld's. Larry remembers a lot of relatives and friends constantly wandering in and out. All right! A lot of yelling and no privacy. In the yearbook... We moved on to Shell Bank Junior High for the story of his school days. In junior high school and high school, I did not participate in anything.

You didn't? I didn't even know things were going on, by the way. Yes, you did. I didn't even know, I swear to you, I didn't even know there was a prom, okay? You didn't go to the prom? Not only did I not go, I didn't even know about it. Yeah, this is it. This is the very spot where he made his only previous stage appearance at age 13

in the school play Charlie's Aunt Wearing a Dress. This is your class. Just look at this and tell me if you can find yourself. Oh, there it is. You're a good-looking kid. Kid, yes. Cute kid. What would you have written for your caption at that time? Lost at sea.

Yeah. Did you feel lost at sea? Yeah. The prom story is true. I didn't know there was a prom, so, you know. That says a lot to me. That says a lot. Didn't know.

Didn't know. Here's what they should have written about you. Out of it. Yeah. No. Didn't go. Didn't know. That's what they should have written about you. Out of it, yeah. No. Didn't go, didn't know. That's it, perfect, yeah. I wish I came up with that answer, yeah. But he does concede that growing up in Brooklyn gave him all sorts of material for later use,

some of it very close to the bone. What did your mother want you to be? A mailman. A mailman? Yes, she wanted me to work in the post office. Because it was safe? Safe, yes, secure, paychecks. Pension?

Yeah, that was her dream, by the way. You know, that wasn't just, that was a dream. It wasn't only because she said that, that's how I felt about it. I didn't... You had no reason to believe that you were going to be as successful as you wanted to be. Zero.

Zero belief in myself. And it's changed somewhat, but there's still a lot of that in me. Getting out of the house, going to the University of Maryland lightened his mood. People actually enjoyed his emerging sense of humor. After college, he became friends with fellow funnyman Richard Lewis, and David started doing stand-up. But it was not his finest hour. You know, when you do stand-up,

there's certain requirements you have to do. Like, you have to go on stage, and when you get introduced, you have to say, hey, how you doing? How are you? You didn't like that. I couldn't do it. It was false for you. It was false. I couldn't do it. It is even said, though,

that sometimes you would take a look at the audience and not go on. Yeah, I did that once. I got up on stage and I kind of looked him over and I went, I don't think so. And I left. You think of stand-up and being... He survived along the way, as young entertainers do, with odd jobs. Paralegal. Chauffeur.

Private chauffeur, taxi driver. And bra salesman. Bra salesman, yeah. So, basically, George, the job here is quite simple. Selling bras. Well, that interests me very much, Mr. Farkas. Very much indeed, sir. And when Seinfeld came along, who could tell the uplifting story of David's brief bra career

better than his favorite jerk, George Costanza? From the first time I laid eyes on a brassiere, I was enthralled. I knew I wanted to be around brassieres. That's an incredible story. Fortunately, Larry David chose television over bras. It brought him fame and many millions of dollars. Almost everything. Did it change you?

I mean, it gave me money. Yeah, of course it did. Lots of money. But, um... Well, confidence. Confident. It gave me something. Yeah.

It gave me something that I didn't have, but not in the way that people think that, oh, man, it's like a total transformation. But then you tell me. It wasn't that at all. I still, you know, to this day, I still couldn't walk up to a woman at a bar and say hello, you know. So I don't have that. Yes, you do. No, I do not. Yes, you do. Oh, no. You know. So I don't have that. Yes, you do. No, I do not. Yes, you do.

You know why? I don't. I don't. Charlie, don't argue with me on this one, baby. Oh, hey, Doc. And whether he's personally a jerk or not, Larry David or Norman Drexel or whoever he is has figured one thing out. What are you doing?

You give me a tip? Yeah. Jerks make for great comedy. Oh, it's customary. I can assure you it is not customary. His play starts with a man on his deathbed. We end on a similar light note. So on your tombstone, first line is going to be writer.

Oh, God. Oh. Oh, I don't know. Writer? Really? Is that what people put on tombstones, their occupation? No, what they love. Oh, what they love.

What they love? I like to watch TV. I like baseball. Here lies Larry David. He liked to watch TV. Or here lies Larry David. He liked to make people laugh. Oh, Charlie.

And keeping it all in the family for the last few weeks of his play's run, David will be replaced by his old alter ego, that jerk George Costanza, alias Jason Alexander. I'm Leslie Stahl. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.